[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [vip] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/3/ - 3DCG


Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 59 posters in this thread.

05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
06/20/16New 4chan Banner Contest with a chance to win a 4chan Pass! See the contest page for details.
[Hide] [Show All]



File: 235765236235.jpg (118 KB, 1280x720)
118 KB
118 KB JPG
How did Zbrush became the "industry standard" with its fucking alien UI?
>>
Every 3D software has an alien interface the first time you use it
>>
My guess is its ability to display a metric fuckton of polygons at relatively fluid framerates.
At least as far as I know no other software was able to pull this off when this program was still new.
>>
because it's only major con is that UI (not that it isn't a freakin awful con)
>>
>>576756
ZBrush originated as a 2.5D painting program, where the concept was that you could use brushes with depth and material properties and even entire 3D meshes as brushes, and it would "encode" that information into a 2D space that retained all relevant 3D properties of the object as though it were still there in 3D.
I think it goes without saying that practically no one actually uses ZBrush for it's "intended" purpose, so when sculpting a 3D mesh, you're editing a tool within the pallet and not manipulating an object on the canvas, as objects dropped on the canvas can no longer be edited. The interface is still built around the idea of a canvas-based painting application, but the way you use it is entirely through secondary editors, which is why you have shit like 200+ mesh tools dumped into one menu.
They should really consider overhauling ZBrush for v5 and maybe flip the whole concept around and only allow "canvas mode" as a secondary option, with a 3D editing environment being the primary, it's all anyone uses it for anyway.
>>
>>576770
>Zbrush originated as a 2.5D painting program
Ye you can see it when you start using it for a bit, the thing is like you said nobody fucking gives a fuck about that and if you want to do a 2.5D painting you just use a normal 3D software and export as a in image. They should completly overhaul the interface to be more like Maya/Blender/Mudbox.
>>
>They should completly overhaul the interface to be more like Maya/Blender/Mudbox
After 10 years of complaints they finally managed to make the transform gadget intuitive for humans even though that, kind of, pisses them off. I still believe Zbrush is made by aliens who can't cope with earthlings logic.
>>
>>576876
*widget
>>
>>576756
What kind of scrubby retard are you?
The Zbrush UI is intuitive and simple as fuck.

Have you even tried Blender?
Or fucking MeshLab??
>>
>>576880
It's not just 'plebs' and 'scrubby retards' that complain about the Zbrush interface anon.
No matter how much of a huge fanboi you are you will have to fave the fact that Zbrush is a oddball program breaking with established conventions used by image editors and 3D softwares.
It's faced sustained criticism for this from a substantial portion of it's userbase since it's inception.
>>
>>576756
>How did Zbrush became the "industry standard"

The same way Abobe and Apple did...
through marketing. They buy ads and pay people to tell the world they are the standard
>>
>>576880
Funny that you mention Blender as being complicated.
It is not more complicated than any other 3D software.
Zbrush on the other hand had lots of unusual ways of how it works but as with Blender, they watered down the autism over the years a bit.
>>
>>576880
Mudbox:
Import mesh, new layer, subdivide, sculpt. Easy and everything is right on the main UI.

ZBrush: open tools palette, import mesh as a new tool, draw mesh on canvas, enter edit mode, subdivide, sculpt. Good luck finding out how to do any of this when you first start because everything is hidden behind several layers of nested menus.
>>
>>576904
This, so much this. I was doing a character from scratch in Zbrush and using Zmodeler + the whole edit thing putting thing into the tools or saving the piece of shit because it crashed every 2 hours was like getting cancer 5 times in the same day.
>>
>>576886
>I am le redpilled
go le fuck your le self
>>
>>576880
At least I could figure out how to make a cube in Blender without having to study a masters degree in bonkers UI design.
>>
>>576910
because you are using cracked version..
>>
ITT: brainlets

seriously who gives a shit? after a few hours of use it becomes almost instinctive unless you're a retard with no dedication. I learned the entire software aspect of it in a few months from youtube tutorials and so can you.

Learning the actual sculpting techniques is a lot harder than the interface and tools.
>>
>>576880
Have you ever tried blender? The user interface includes shortcuts and blenders are fairly sensible. A monkey could become proficient in a day with a single sheet print out of some of the basic shortcuts. Can't say the same about Max, which shortcuts the most esoteric and rarely used functions to commonly used keys (main letters, ctrl+alphabet, shift+alphabet, etc.) but the GUI is better even if it's a cluster fuck
>>
>>577978
>I learned the entire software aspect of it in a few months
You can learn everything there is to know in mudbox in a few days... but you're right in a way, even the most esoteric UI can be mastered given enough time, however certain workflow quirks will always stick. When zbrush expects you to do everything several steps, even knowing all the hotkeys won't ever feel entirely smooth. Juggling tools and subtools and being aware of what mode or function is toggled gets a bit grating. It's the kind of program where you can accidentally misclick on some tiny button or slider and cause your model to explode.

>>578121
I agree about Max's default bindings, which is why you should immediately make new ones and also setup your quad menus to show more relevant tools, then save that shit. Also, everyone seems to forget to set up modifier sets and reach for the drop-down and scroll through the entire fucking list, even though they use the same ~10 functions 95% of the time.
>>
>>578121
Max's UI and UX is fucking amazing, what the hell are you talking about?
They did and accomplished the most important thing: Bringing the most often used features to the front, and emphasizing them.

With most programs, you'll find that you're only really using 10-20% of it's features. Max, by DEFAULT, has those 10-20% features front and center. If you don't know the keyboard shortcuts, just hover over the icon.
Anything more esoteric than the basic 10-20% always requires some instruction anyways.

Blender totally failed to accomplish that. They decided to separate its workspaces into different contexts, and grouped them together. The problem with this setup is that they are treating each feature with equal importance, which from a UX perspective, is an objectively wrong way to do things.
>>
>>577978
From a human factors perspective, any well-engineered product should be understood and usable without the need of any instruction whatsoever.

Clearly labeled and exposed functions is all you should need. When designing this way, everything matters. Position, size, color, image, timing. All of it.

You might call the consumers who call such products difficult ``brainlets'', but the engineers who can't design products effectively are objectively brainlets.

Now go make your 3d meshes using nothing but nano and the OBJ spec.
>>
>Try out 3Dcoat
>Instantly asks me if I'd like to use camera controls of another software
>I use Maya

Why the fuck isnt this is Zbrush
>>
>>578360
Honestly the pan/zoom/rotate control is one of the most minor problems among the utter disaster that is ZBrush UI.
>>
>>576756
It was first.

As simple as that.
But it didnt become a industry standard for long, in 2006 its biggest competitor came out, Mudbox, and due to its much better ui and new approach to sculpting it quickly started to overtake zbrush eventually almost pushing it out completely out of professional pipelines.
People who only ever used zbrush 3 and 4 dont realize how fucking slow zbrush 2 was.
But sadly Mudbox got bought out by Autiodesk pretty fast and while initially they kept up the update pace they eventually decided to kill off Mudbox forums, kill the Mudbox sites and marge them into Autodesk ones, and eventually then decided to kill off Mudbox itself merging its features into their other packages.
So in the end zbrush once again became the standard just after few short years of any real copetition and with no other sculpting dedicated packages in sight outside of 3d coat it will stay as it.
>>
>>578391
>and eventually then decided to kill off Mudbox itself merging its features into their other packages.
Wat, Maya 2017/2018 have like 1/1000000 of the features Mudbox has
>>
>>578414
>Wat, Maya 2017/2018 have like 1/1000000 of the features Mudbox has
Dosnt stop Autodesk from axing it.
Autocad and Maya is what really keeps them afloat, they couldnt give less of a shit about a brand that isnt performing up some to imaginary insane standard.
They got like 50 programs they distribute or develop, and another 50 discontinued or not updated anymore, Mudbox is like a drop of water in that.
>>
As a person who originally thought this of Zbrush and then eventually got better at Zbrush, I have to say that I think that the Zbrush UI continues to appeal to tablet pen users. It just makes sense. I can do everything in Zbrush by just holding the alt or shift keys. It's sooo smooth... but with right click/ middle click functionality, it would just make no sense on a tablet pen interface
>>
File: IMG_6093.jpg (93 KB, 800x634)
93 KB
93 KB JPG
>>579450
Yeah, it basically seems to me that it was designed by that one guy in the art department who gets to use a Cintiq and is perpetually pissed by that nothing is really made to work his shiny new toy.
I mean ZB just makes sense on a tablet, there are only about 6~8 hotkeys of mention and everything else is built around tools you can dock around the outer edge of the interface and easily access with quick, accurate flicks of the wrist. The problem is that they didn't provision much for the other 99%.
>>
>>578414
Autodesk has an autistic obsession with axing anything that is not Maya even if such action is going to bite them back in the ass.
>>
>>579703
maya is their best product tho. Zbrush top sculpting software, modo best for hard surface, you can get good renders out of keyshot/marmoset (or vray on modo), houdini for sims, etc. etc. etc.
Maya is the best animation software and they know that, so they play to that.
>>
>>579450
For every quirk that makes sense on a tablet, there's multiple others that don't. Like the feature where touching the canvas background rotates the model and you can't disable it, because obviously there's *no way* that'll be inconvenient while trying to sculpt something with tablet pen strokes, right? Shit sucks and makes no sense even if you assume that they were thinking of tablets while making it.
>>
>>576757
Maya looks like everything i used before regardless of 3D
>>
>How did Zbrush became the "industry standard" with its fucking alien UI?

its so good to the point that everything else is shit by comparison.
zbrush holds monopoly over sculpting, but they earned it rightfully
>>
Fairly unrelated... Are there any place I can download free head meshes, specifically of an asian female? I've only found one on gumroad behind a $100 paywall. CGpeers is useless apparently too.
>>
>>582211
I mean its not like it has too many rivals. The only decent one that isnt totally irrelevant is Mudbox and .... thats it
>>
>>582243

blender is WAY better than zbrush dude.
>>
File: 1488335527140.jpg (13 KB, 600x600)
13 KB
13 KB JPG
>>576880
>The Zbrush UI is intuitive and simple as fuck
No, this software is in a constant quantum state of both amazing and fucking retarded at the same time
>>
>>582244
wish i could reuse this image >>582259 .......
keep blender where it belongs: with /3/ n00bs
>>
>>582261

No I'm serious fool, blender is the best. Your "industry standard" softwares are becoming useless as many game studios are now switching to blender. When 2.80 will be out most game studios will make the switch, make my words autodesk slave.
>>
File: 1427851627346.jpg (8 KB, 192x279)
8 KB
8 KB JPG
>>582242
Nobody?
>>
>>582283
every statement here is garbage b8
thanks for the keks
>>
>>582283
>blenderfags are THIS delusional
Holy shit just fucking kill yourself.
>>
>>582244
>>582283
Typical false-flagging Autodesk shill trying to stir up flame wars. Also trying too hard.
>>
>>582290

You'll be the one killing himself after becomming bankrupt because of expensive autojew products.

Keep on using Maya and 3ds max like a bunch of normies. In 5 years you won't be able to find a single job anymore because every talented artists will have moved to Blender 2.8. MARK MY WORDS.
>>
File: 13676651701144.gif (488 KB, 499x367)
488 KB
488 KB GIF
>>582259
this is so fucking true lol. I use Zbrush all the time and i love the power it gives to the user but there are some things that make me go pic-related so hard. First thing that comes to mind is the tools and subtool management. Makes no sense.
>>
>>576756

Because they bought Sculptris and left it to rot.
>>
>>582295
tfw every Blender poster is really a falseflagging Autodesk shill because you can't like Blender and be demonstrably retarded even though 100% of Blender posts are exactly that.
>>
>>582328

No, Blender users are really that retarded. Time to stop blaming autodesk for your shitty community.
>>
>>582364
Do I really need to put /s on a post like that?
>>
>>582284
Get any other detailed 3d head, reshape eyes, cheek bones?
>>
File: hqdefault.jpg (31 KB, 480x360)
31 KB
31 KB JPG
>>576770

I was going to say the same thing. Zbrush was probably not meant to be a serious sculpting application initially, and it retains this "Kai's Power Goo" vibe to this day.
>>
>>577951
not the person you're replying you but I've used zbrush in production (legit copies) and it was an absolutely unstable piece of shit. not always, but 60% of the time it crashed every time.
>>
>>576756
REALLY?? Ever Fucking Tried MAYA?
>>
>>583166
Maya has the best UI just behind Cinema4D
>>
>>583166

Here's another stupid blender autist who is too stupid to learn good softwares because he's too used to his baby's first modeling software.

Out of all 3d packages out there Maya has to be the easiest of the bunch. Keep sucking those Blendaaah guru nuts.
>>
>>583177
wtf i love maya now
>>
>>583177
I want the Autodesk hasbara trolls to leave.
>>
God damn people bitch about zbrush ui... all the fucking time. Seriously it's not that complicated if your sculpting is shit, quit falling back to "yeah but the ui is so ______..." Just fucking practice more and quit bitching. Any software you use has a learning curve, learn it. Zbrush is no more complicated than any other software and less so sometimes. Plus like many other software's its ui is customizable, if all you can fall back on for your failings is bad ui, then customize it and practice more. It's an industry standard software for a reason, not including any of this conspiratorial shit. If you can't use it cause it's ui is just so bad then consider maybe finger painting or playdough.
>>
>>584425
As someone who has used Alias, Solidworks, Rhino, Maya, fuckin Sketchup, and Blender, the Zbrush UI is garbage.
>>
>>584433
It's still awesome and miles ahead of Mudbox and Blender. Oh wait, Mudbox is dead.
>>
This will be great on our display https://youtu.be/IIrYal-ksMk
>>
>>584581
>Miles ahead of Mubox UI

LOL

>Miles ahead of Blender UI

L
O
L

There is nothing close to the trash that is Zbrush interface, nice program tho.
>>
>>584590
Never said 'UI', learn2quote.
>>
>>584581

The most powerful tools in the world are garbage without ergonomics.

Can you imagine how great zbrush could be if instead of spending 95% of your time learning the UI, you could spend it practicing getting work done?
>>
>>584630
Who the hell spends so much time on learning the UI? Are you retarded? It takes a day or less to learn where everything is and what it does. Then you can make your own fucking customized UI however you want it and with whatever shortcuts you want.
>>
>>583096
its because of the auto saves, if you disabled that. LIke me from 60% to about 5%

Its something to do trying to save While you're peforming an action causes the program shit the bed.
>>
>>584630
The fuck. Why are you guys getting such a boner with the UI... I learned it a long time ago and yes, it wasn't easy to get all the weird concepts (2.5D software), but now all the time is spent on the work.
You talk like you have to relearn the UI every time, lol.
>>
>>577292
He's right, fuck you frenchy
>>
all the time i hear people in my social circle knock the zbrush UI. and that's all they do. it's like the universal go-to pseud argument any time anyone mentions the program.

the UI is a pain in the ass to learn initially but there are very clear video tutorials made by its developers. it is not hard to navigate if you understand it, like anything. it just does not follow the universal design philosophy that most other 3d programs make you familiar with.

you can learn it and you can get used to it. idk what the big fuckin deal is. people wont stfu about it. it's like taking a 3d bar exam and people who whine about it are the ones who fail
>>
File: 252335235.jpg (303 KB, 1920x1027)
303 KB
303 KB JPG
>>584935
>you can learn it and you can get used to it. idk what the big fuckin deal is.

Because its fucking shit it looks like shit it navigates like shit and just because i can learn to use it it doesn't mean its good and also they could have changed it in the past like 5 years AND the program itself costs a lot so i can require something especially when fucking free as fuck blender has a better UI and navigation for sculpting.
>>
File: Knight01_KojiroYahata.jpg (823 KB, 1920x1295)
823 KB
823 KB JPG
>>584976
>zBrush: shit navigation, shit ui (that looks like shit)

Blender: Shit sculpts. Not because it's not capable, but it works on true 3D (huge disadvantage), doesn't have many powerful sculpting tools, and so on. It's just painfully inferior in sculpting and good artists know it.
>>
>>582211
>but they earned it rightfully
They bought out all their competition (mudbox, sculptris) and dismantled them
>>
>>584980
Oh really, tell me more about how they bought mudbox, anon
>>
>>584976
zbrush is so big that it takes like a good week or two for warmup and then you get up to speed.

the sculpt you show is not a high res sculpt in zbrush standards. if you want to be sub 10k mil then use blender mmy frend
>>
File: Blender_sculpt.jpg (37 KB, 544x600)
37 KB
37 KB JPG
>>584978
>It's just painfully inferior in sculpting and good artists know it.

Of course, because its free and it isn't even mainly a sculpting tool like Zbrush(inb4. zbrush is a software for 2.5D painting!), yet it has a better and easier to navigate ui and better controls in 3D space for the thing that Zbrush is made entirely for, let that sink in.
>>
>>585031
There is nothing to sink in. C4d has better sculpting tools than Blender, Modo has better sculpting tools than Blender. Both have better UI than Blender and Z-brush.
Z-Brush is still king because of its abilities.

How about you let THAT sink in. UI is meaningless as long as it is usable, that applies to Z-Brush and to Blender. ABILITY is the only thing that is really important.
>>
>>585033
>UI is meaningless as long as it is usable
Shut the fuck up
>>
>>585031
>Look mom! I can draw wrinkles! so good work!

It's not good. Stop jerking off to user interfaces, it's obvious that's all you got.
>>
>>585031

I don't have anything about blender but it's performance with high poly stuff is atrocious. Will Zbrush you can subdivide your mesh 5 or 6 times, have millions of polygons, and it will remain smooth as butter. Blender will become sliggish before it even reaches one million polygons.
>>
>>584989
Why the hell would you need to learn every single thing before even starting? I think, one of the strong points of zbrush is that, despite its atrocious UI, you can start using software pretty fast and still do awesome thing just by, you know, sculpting - an actual thing for what zbrush is used.
>>
>>585033
>There is nothing to sink in. C4d has better sculpting tools than Blender, Modo has better sculpting tools than Blender. Both have better UI than Blender and Z-brush.

Agree, and those programs aren't even the real competitor to zBrush.
>>
>>576756
better question is why i cant freely move the window when its not in full screen, just grab and drag like every other program out there. why do i have to resize left and right, up and down in order to get it where i want




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.