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I am very angry right now. I just watched through Madoka Magica for the first time, and then Rebellion. Someone please convince me that Rebellion didn't just completely ruin everything in the original series story. The movie didn't need to happen, but it would have been perfectly fine if it ended at the Homura/Madoka scene near the end. Instead it just went entirely off the rails. What was the point?
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>>179183519
You didn't get it.
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>>179183519
Sequel bait for an abandoned second movie.
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>>179183519
I told you.
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>>179183519
>What was the point?
Love
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>>179183519
homura literally did nothing wrong you mongrel
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>>179183519
Another pleb gets filtered. Thank you, Rebellion.
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>>179183519
Yeah, when I first watched it I was actually super pissed because it seemed like Homura had betrayed Madoka but after reading some comments on the movie, I'm pretty sure it was the opposite. Homura was sad that Madoka basically gave up her life and sacrifice herself but ended up being alone for eternity. I think in the end Homura and Madoka switched places, but I'm not sure, it's been a while since I last watched it so I might be wrong.
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>>179183519
I was like this at first, when i first watched Rebellion i was so angry, i thought they ruined a perfect masterpiece, then i watched it again, and then i start to understand how perfect it was
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>>179183519
What about it ruins the end of the TV series for you?
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>>179183962

can you explain why she did what she did in the end? for some reason it just didn't land for me. There seemed to be no build up for what had happened and kind of threw me off. It really seemed like a twist for the sake of their being a twist.
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>>179183630
I hope so, otherwise I'd have to accept the fact that the movie's ending was so poorly written that it basically tanked the entire franchise's story and meaning. Please explain.

>>179183676
But what could they have possibly done that wouldn't have been contrived and pointless after the end of that?

>>179183709
Love and obsession are not the same thing.

>>179183710
What did she really accomplish? She undid Madoka's noble sacrifice... to be with Madoka? Even though she would have been with her anyway if she just let her take her. Now, she's bitter and angry and disconnected and not even sure what she did will even work in the long term. It feels so disconnected and unfinished, especially in the last 10 minutes of the movie.

>>179183920
I never got that impression at all. It seemed all that vanished to the cycle were reunited with Madoka. Why would Bebe's human form exist in the movie if that wasn't the case?

>>179183962
Any explanation as to what I'm missing? I'm legitimately confused.
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>>179184070
She acted selfishly, all those time loops took a toll on her mental health.
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>>179184048
Madoka only wanted to be a Mahou shoujo at the beginning because she was feeling useless, she wanted her life to have a purpose, Madoka was a normal girl, she didn't want to be jesus, she just wanted to have a purpose but after seeing how shitty was to be a Mahou Shoujo she tried to avoid it at every cost but at the end she has to take the decision to be one and make herself a "god" not because she wanted, but it was the ONLY CHOICE, because if she didn't everyone would end up dying, her family and everybody she loved, she took """the right choice""" but that doesn't mean she was happy about it, she ended up being isolated for the rest of the eternity and being forgotten by everyone she loved.

back to the movie, In the garden scene, Homura presents the hypotetical case to Madoka, the one who didn't have the memories of such event and Madoka says she would suffer a lot being lonely and that she wouldn't have the guts to take such decision (but she does take it due to being obligated by the circunstances) that is the difference between the Madoka of EP12, the suffering of being isolated doesn't change but one acepts her fate as inevitable, she accepts her duty but not because she wants but because there isn't an alternative, now we know how madoka was really feeling about everything at the end of EP12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__q9fsZa5vk

Homura now knowing Madoka true feelings goes insane because her only wish have always been to protect Madoka, and now she acknowledges how much Madoka suffers being a god, on top of that you have the incubators that are trying to capture Madoka to use it for bringing the witches back so it was some sort of a race between Homura and the Incubators to get to Madoka.

If you look closely, this is a more "happy ending" than the original series had.
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>>179184048
Rewatch the flower bed scene. Homura misinterprets Madoka’s will by basically asking her (who has no memories of the TV series) what she would do in the situation at the end of the TV series. But Madoka who lacks so much crucial information which formed the basis of her decision to become martyr for all mahou shoujo ever, so instead she responds as any random teenager would; “oh I don’t think I’d do that, it’d be too sad.” So Homura interprets this as Madoka being unhappy with her godhood and role as the Law of Cycles, and thus resolves to “free” Madoka from her position as the godhead of the universe. The thing that makes this interesting is how enwrapped Homura’s thought processes are in her own character flaws, primarily her dependency and attachment to Madoka, which is quite obviously influencing her decisions. It’s an expansion of what people were already able to read out of her character from the TV series; that she doesn’t want Madoka to be safe, but rather she wants to be a savior to Madoka, a small but major difference that emphasises her desire to be materially with Madoka and to have her dependency reciprocated at least somewhat.
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I don't understand how so many people didn't get Rebellion. When they beat witch Homura and were getting ready to take her into the cycle I was ready to be disappointed because that ending just didn't fit with Homura's character or with the rest of the movie. Those of you who didn't get it, would you actually have been happy with the movie if Homura had gone into the cycle with Madokami and put on ballets for the rest of megukadom for eternity? It just wouldn't make any sense for that to happen.
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all this rebellion talking makes me want to rewatch it for like the 4time, the HomuravsMami fight was so kino
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>>179184290
>>179184347

While that is is certainly a perfectly reasonable explanation, I still find it to be unsatisfying and ultimately pointless. It's a step backward from the heroic journey that everyone went through. I can understand Homura wanting to do it, but why would the writers allow that? It weakens the story, if not entirely nullifying it.

It's not that I don't get it. It doesn't even feel like a cash grab. It just seems like they switched out a perfect ending - for the audience - for a questionable ending for the characters. Homura isn't even sure what she's done is right or will last. It really does feel like a set up for another movie or season or something. But what could they even do at this point that wasn't contrived powercreep nonsense? It's basically falling into the magical girl trap that I thought the writers wanted to deconstruct and did so well in the first place.

They had the perfect anime magical girl Faust thing going on, up until the last 10 minutes.
>>
Rewatch the show, then rewatch the movie. It'll all make sense. Rebellion is hard to understand the first time through.

If you're too lazy read the wiki.
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>>179184711
You wanna know how I can tell you've never read Faust?
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QB didn't deserve this. He strives to prevent the death of the universe and should be commended for it.
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>>179183519
You are absolutely right, anon.
Rebellion is worst thing to happen in anime in last 100 years.
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>>179184787

The suspense is killing me. Do tell.
>>
>madoka will be more than an 'imaginary friend' to her little brother
>madoka will have that drink with her mum
>madoka will have a life

Thank you, based Homura.
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>>179184897
that was rhetorical question anon
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>>179184711
>heroic journey
>everyone gets their asses beat over and over until timeloop-trickery buffed Madoka deus exes a less shitty afterlife into being by removing herself from existence
>heroic journey
The only "hero's journey" was Homura's and she got a bad end in the original series. As did everyone else.
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>>179184711
You still don't seem to get it, watch it again anon.

It's not about giving a closure neither to stablish things, neither it was ever about an "heroic" journey, being a mahou shoujo was more like a curse and Homura only motivation was to protect Madoka from it, at all costs.
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Arctic Monkeys are so good
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>>179184711
>but why would the writers allow that?
He didn't.
My personal speculation is that Urobuch was forced to do it against his will.
Evidence for that:
> Urobuchi thought producer was joking when they first presented the idea of sequel to him while season was airing
>Urobuchi written himself into a corner and idea about Homura taking Madoka's power is Shinbo's
>Urobuchi knew lots of people will hate the movie. He explicitly said that.
>Urobuchi distanced himself from Madoka after Rebellion.
>Idea about making sequel was from producer, not from Urobuchi, who would want to continue the story

It is pretty clear Urobuchi didn't enjoy writing for Rebellion. And that the motivation was primarily money and not creating additional story.
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>>179185273
>Urobuchi knew lots of people will hate the movie
Only retards
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People liked this? It felt like a sequel pilot to me, and without any continuation it didn't feel like it meant much on it's own.
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>>179183519
>t. brainlet
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>>179185699
What happened to the new movie?
Did it get cancelled after Urobuchi ran off to play with puppets or something?
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>>179185009

I'll agree on one point: it really was Homura's story. But that was revealed at episode 10. Madoka is the vehicle for the audience to connect to the world. For most of the anime, she does nothing but experience and react to the story. It's MADOKA Magica, right?

I felt like the writers knew what they were doing. Any good writer knows to write for the audience. You don't write a story for the sake of the characters, you write to tell a story that you want the audience to relate, connect or learn from. It undermines PMMM being a deconstruction of the bland and tired magical girl genre if it also deconstructs itself.

As far as "everyone got the bad end" goes, that makes even less sense. They know Homura is forcefully erasing their memory to try to correct a timeline that didn't need correcting. Homura isn't sure it will work or if it should. She openly states the entire situation is fragile and unknown. That's a shitty way to end a story.

>>179185273

That explains a lot.

How the fuck are they going to do this new series now?
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>>179183519
Rebellion was a soulless movie made to pander to the worst fans with shit like Charlotte and Kyoko/Sayaka baiting and skimpy dress Homu. It needed to shit on the series just in case they ever want to make more unnecessary sequels.
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>>179185878
>"im fucking retarded"

And you OP go watch the fucking thing again
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>>179185878
>skimpy dress homu
huh?
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>>179185878
I never watched the movie but honestly this makes me want to try it. Any more things in it you'd call pandering?
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>>179185878
I'm glad Urobuchi is done with this shit after seeing how they turned it into a soulless fanservice cashgrab.
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>>179183519
Rebellion is a fantastic film and you're a faggot.
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>>179186086
>Any more things in it you'd call pandering?
Everything.
Just read "Rebel With A Misguided Cause".
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Oh look, this thread again.

Rebellion is by far the best part of the franchise.
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>>179186170
>the first result is reddit
Well, ok, I'll try my best.
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>>179184711
They didn't really go through a heroic journey. Well Madoka sort of did, but Homura was just crazy. You think the girl who time looped for years and years would just sit down and let the relatively bittersweet ending of the series stand? She's crazy.
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>>179186170
It's amazing how somebody can write all that and it boils down to "I don't like it because it's not the same as the original and I misinterpreted Homura's character". Guess that's reddit for you.
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>>179186334
Its amazing how somebody can't read and understand what other people are saying.
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>>179183519
Rebellion is the yang to the series ying. Homura is right, the universe shouldn't have to rely on self sacrifice, much less that of a young girl.
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>>179186315
>>179186334

Most of this thread is some serious but understandable weeb cope.

It's okay that Rebellion is bad. You know how many good franchises didn't know when to quit and blew it? Most of them. It doesn't take away from the original series run. Do what Homura and her writers couldn't do, and just let it go.
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>>179185827
>deconstruction
Please explain this. The word was thrown around a lot back in the day but it really doesn't apply here. Sailor Moon killed off all the characters and ended in a memory wipe hard reset too, but I doubt you'd call that a deconstruction.

>They know Homura is forcefully erasing their memory to try to correct a timeline that didn't need correcting. Homura isn't sure it will work or if it should. She openly states the entire situation is fragile and unknown. That's a shitty way to end a story.
I never said anyone got a good end in Rebellion, but if you don't understand why Homura is trying to change things then you didn't get the original series either. All of Rebellion leading up to the end reinforces Homura's feelings that you should have picked up on in the original series, until she finally acts on them. Try looking at it from her point of view instead of taking Madoka's perspective on everything for as retarded a reason as
>It's MADOKA Magica, right?

>>179185878
>skimpy dress Homu
It looked a lot like the dress from Princess Tutu, which means probably both were inspired by ballet and you're just a moron.
>>
I didn't think it was awful but it took a closed narrative with some natural mystery left for the viewer, then opened it back up again. Which would be fine if there was something coming down the pipes to create a final conclusion but nothing like that happened. So it's just kind of a spectacle.
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>>179184070
You will understand in due time. People only get upset at Rebellion because it shows them truths they are not willing to accept. More than anything, the movie is a character study of Homura. Once you understand her, you will see that she did nothing wrong.
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>>179186748
>>deconstruction
>Please explain this. The word was thrown around a lot back in the day but it really doesn't apply here. Sailor Moon killed off all the characters and ended in a memory wipe hard reset too, but I doubt you'd call that a deconstruction.
Not that OP but: Deconstruction means taking the trapings and tropes of an established norm and doing unexpected or radically different things. Often times to critique stagnation of the genre.
NGE was a deconstruction of mecha, and it changed the genre forever.
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>>179186928
Literally nothing in this post is correct. You should actually learn what words mean before you use them.
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>>179186987
>UR WRONG
>NOT GONNA SAY WHY BUY UR WRONG
contribute or kys
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>>179186821
This, close this thread already.

Or proceed to shitpost megucas-
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>>179187077
Well I'm not going to spend the energy on explaining things you should just google. I'll help you out though, start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deconstruction
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Proceed to shitpost please.
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What's going on here?
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>>179183519
What >>179183676 said.
But even now they have no idea what to do after, they fucked it up and Urobochi doesn't seem like working with Shinbo again.
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>>179187153
You are so fucking stupid it hurts.
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>>179187228
>UR WRONG
>NOT GONNA SAY WHY BUY UR WRONG
contribute or kys
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so CUTE
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>>179186987
No, he was correct
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You are a faggot OP
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>>179187254
That doujinshi was godly.
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>>179187319
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>>179187239
not him.but you need to read what you link
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>>179186748

Deconstruction in the sense of taking something very familiar and formulaic and breaking it down in a post-modern sense. It's a critical analysis of the genre, aimed directly at the audience. It's supposed to make you re-think conceptual elements of a genre. Unfortunately, there aren't many good examples of deconstructions done well, and I'm not an expert on the subject either. NGE is often cited as a deconstruction of the mecha-sub genre but I've never seen it myself. MGS2 was as pretty good example of a deconstruction, as well as DDLC (in terms of recent examples).

>I never said anyone got a good end in Rebellion, but if you don't understand why Homura is trying to change things then you didn't get the original series either. All of Rebellion leading up to the end reinforces Homura's feelings that you should have picked up on in the original series, until she finally acts on them. Try looking at it from her point of view instead of taking Madoka's perspective on everything

I understand WHY Homura did what she did, but the writers failed to make me CARE. Why should I sympathize with Homura trading Madoka's selfless sacrifice with Homura's selfish reneging of it? It doesn't even make sense or reflect Homura's character in it's own universe, but that's besides the point. You don't sacrifice the integrity of the story and it's values to indulge the desires of a character inside of it. Think of it this way; what's the lesson or moral of Rebellion? What can you take from it as someone who has watched it? You can take tons from PMMM, but I can't find anything of value or necessity in Rebellion. Nothing in Rebellion was necessary, but it didn't detract from PMMM until the last 10 minutes, which basically undid everything the writers wanted to portray in the series.
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>>179187371
Find me a single passage in that link which matches what he said.
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>>179187410
Watch everything again faggot
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So why are there still so many people asking/hoping Aniplex and Shaft will make a sequel if Rebellion's was so perfect like y'all like to say it is.
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>>179187463

I took your advice and at last I truly see. It was just bad from the start. They really fooled me.
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>>179183519
>Someone please convince me that Rebellion didn't just completely ruin everything in the original series story.
The original story was about Homu's struggle to be me Madoka's friend. Not a magical, girl, not a witch, not a goddess. Everything was set in motion by Homu having to relive the same events over and over for the sake of her dream. Everything else is secondary and only came into existence because of Homu's actions.
At the end of original Homu had to gave up her dream. But in Rebellion she found a way to realize it. So Rebellion is a logical continuation of the series. It did ruin Madoka's wish, but Madoka never had the power to make that wish to begin with, it was Homura resetting time that gave her that power, so I'd say she is the only one that has the right to interfere with it.
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>>179187582
Because they released a trailer years ago saying they were going to make more

Rebellion is perfect but if i could get more i would definitly get more Madoka
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>>179186987
living proof underage faggots on 4chan can only google things to pretend to have a knowledge base
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>>179187679
Go ahead and explain why that post is more accurate than the wikipedia article anon. I'll even do you the benefit of telling you that it's actually describing subversion.
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>>179187632
Well anon at least you knew even for a bit how having good taste feels, sorry for you.
>>
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>>179187410
Madoka didn't want to have to give up her life and leave her family, she just put all the magical girl's lives above her own. Homu allowed both Madoka and Madoka's wish to coexist at the cost of her relationship with Madoka. That's true love.
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>>179186760
>a closed narrative
If Homura didn't remember, maybe. At the end of the TV anime she was clearly unhappy with the situation but didn't have the power to do anything about it. In Rebellion she found the power and used it.

>>179187410
>what's the lesson or moral of Rebellion?
What's the lesson or moral of the TV anime?

>I understand WHY Homura did what she did
So you understand actions that you disagree with? That sounds like something you could take away from the movie. Possibly a lesson.

>Why should I sympathize with Homura trading Madoka's selfless sacrifice with Homura's selfish reneging of it?
This is where your problem is. You're too stuck on the idea of Madoka's "selfless sacrifice" and refuse to give Homura's side a chance. Take the other anon's advice and try rewatching it all. If you liked the original then you shouldn't mind that part at least. I think you'll find that Rebellion makes perfect sense with the series and possibly also >>179187632
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>>179187652
>>179187844

>The original story was about Homu's struggle to be me Madoka's friend. Not a magical, girl, not a witch, not a goddess. Everything was set in motion by Homu having to relive the same events over and over for the sake of her dream. Everything else is secondary and only came into existence because of Homu's actions.
>At the end of original Homu had to gave up her dream.

I understand and agree with this.

>But in Rebellion she found a way to realize it. So Rebellion is a logical continuation of the series.

In the last 10 minutes of the movie? It feels like there was supposed to be another movie or series, but it never happened luckily. Homura's explanation of what happens is so shaky and unsure. She siphons off some of Madoka's power to rewrite the laws of the universe again to give Madoka the normal life she THOUGHT she wanted. Madoka explains herself in the series that she feels inadequate with her "normal" life, she wants to be dependable and useful for once. She shows her willingness to give up her loving family and normal life to save her friend and the city at the final battle. Her unwillingness to commit throughout the entire show up until her universe-changing self-sacrifice is powerful character arc in a story mostly revolved around Homura. Homura's not even sure she can pull off this perversion of Madoka's power for long. The whole thing is contrived and unstable. Even if they immediately greenlighted a 4th movie, what would they even do with it?
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>>179187410
>it didn't detract from PMMM until the last 10 minutes, which basically undid everything the writers wanted to portray in the series
If you were actually surprised by Homura's actions at the end then we must have watched different movies. Everything was leading into it, so if the last 10 minutes undid everything the writers wanted to portray in the series then all of Rebellion undid everything the writers wanted to portray in the series. Hell, even the series itself undid everything the writers wanted to portray in the series, unless you think the ending was supposed to be happy.
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>>179188104
>Even if they immediately greenlighted a 4th movie, what would they even do with it?
Nothing. They embody naturally opposing forces, so they will naturally oppose each other forever. Homura spells it out at the end. I'm sorry if that's too much for you, but that's the ending of Rebellion.
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>>179187844
>Madoka didn't want to have to give up her life and leave her family, she just put all the magical girl's lives above her own. Homu allowed both Madoka and Madoka's wish to coexist at the cost of her relationship with Madoka. That's true love.

It's not love, it's obsession and delusion. The Madoka in Rebellion was one without any memory of her past life or actions. It was the Madoka that Homura wanted, not the real one. Madoka changed alongside Homura in the original series, maybe you could argue Homura couldn't accept that in Rebellion, but it still wouldn't justify the ending or make it "good".

>>179188007
>What's the lesson or moral of the TV anime?

Tons. But speaking of Homura directly, it was learning to let go. The entire series is based on Homura foolishly trying to change fate, but only making things worse and worse. Tragic characters are supposed to have tragic endings. If anything, the end of PMMM was the best ending for everyone. Rebellion was self-indulgent wish fulfillment for Homura with hints that nothing was going to work out with her plan there either. It added nothing. Once again, I'm left asking why did I have to see this, other than to line someone's pockets with cash.

>>179188216
>>179188281

So, you're telling me they just ran out of ideas then? Selfishness vs selflessnesss? That's not what the original anime went with. Homura got her bitter sweet but tragic ending and was still left with her memories. It's not a "happy" ending, and I would never expect it to be, but at least it made sense. The whole Rebellion ending is edgy and nonsensical, it's just bad, but it doesn't even resolve the issues Homura had with her original ending anyway. She was never going to get exactly what she wanted, and that's fine. But why trade a well-written impactful ending with a shitty and pointless one? It reeks of a good writers having to extend and zombifie a story that was already finished.
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>>179188104
>Homura's explanation of what happens is so shaky and unsure
Contextualize the nature of Homura's existence. Homura's entire existence is an aberration. The moment Madoka made her wish, the Akemi Homura as we knew her, for all intents and purposes should have ceased to exist: she'd wake up in her hospital bed, transfer into school, get ostracized by her classmates, and end up killing herself. She'd have never made a contract, and dying as a normal human instead of a magical girl means that her soul would vanish, never to be united with Madoka again.

But instead, somehow, Homura was able to witness firsthand how the universe changed, retain her memories and even physical matter from another timeline, and be dumped into that hospital bed as if she had made another time loop, only this time she has a completely new set of powers. This should not be-- until you consider that the magic of Homura's wish and her loops across time have inextricably tied her fate with Madoka's. Rebellion was inevitable, because Homura wished to become someone who protected Madoka. And love gave her the power to realize the potential given to her by her paradoxical existence.

>She shows her willingness to give up her loving family and normal life to save her friend and the city at the final battle
Only because she felt that she didn't have a choice. She values her family and friends more than her desire to be useful; it is only after she is about to lose everything does she accept that her sacrifice is a necessity. If she was convinced that Homura stood a chance, she would have refrained.

>Even if they immediately greenlighted a 4th movie, what would they even do with it
Reconciliation, a compromise between ideologies through mutual understanding.
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>>179188281
I'd like to see a movie that deals with Homura's depression and how she hates herself. Madoka learning the truth about the new world/universe and initially being shocked but later coming to forgive Homura. Thus curing Homura's self hatred and depression. Madoka comes to learn that her way isn't the only way, and Homura learns to try and talk things out with people before taking drastic action.
>>
You faggots go rewatch both the show and the movie
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>>179186101
Same here, the original series is great as a self-contained story. Every attempt to continue it reeks of money grubbing. Makes me sad that a great show has been reduced to basically nothing but fanservice for pathetic weebs but I guess it's not too surprising considering how popular Madoka was/is.
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>>179188540

All of this is entirely conjecture. I only bother with what was shown. There are already tons of plotholes with Rebellion, not including the ending.

Homura doesn't have her time travel device at the end of the series. She fights wraiths with presumably Madoka's bow. How did she get it back in Rebellion? How is she still able to become a witch in a world without them? How and why would Kyubey go to such great lengths over curiosity of tales told by Homura of witches, which also doesn't fit his indifferent utilitarian approach? He doesn't even care about the earth exploding in the series, effectively ending their energy gathering scheme entirely, why would he care about more efficient ways to gather free energy now? How would him capturing Madoka do anything? Etc...

>Only because she felt that she didn't have a choice.

She's a fictional character in a story. The only choice she has is the writer's choice. Something that makes sense and is in line with the story they are trying to tell. They got it right the first time.

>Reconciliation, a compromise between ideologies through mutual understanding.

Rebellion was pointless, another sequel would simply be torture. They told everything they could tell that was worthwhile in the show. That's why Rebellion is bad, it has nothing meaningful to add. I don't give a shit about Homura's mood swings and neither should anyone else.
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>>179188538
>It's not love, it's obsession
Not mutually exclusive.
>The Madoka in Rebellion was one without any memory of her past life or actions
But still reflective of her character.
>It was the Madoka that Homura wanted, not the real one
Untrue.
>But speaking of Homura directly, it was learning to let go
Homura's unwillingness to let go is what made the ending possible.
>Rebellion was self-indulgent wish fulfillment for Homura
The beginning was, not the ending, and I shouldn't need to explain wherein the difference lies.
>hints that nothing was going to work out with her plan there either
No, it hints that if Homura's plans go awry, she'll set them right.
>It added nothing
It added the logical extension of Homura's character, an individualist narrative, reflection of the consequences of Madoka's wish, and another perspective on love and self-sacrifice.
>edgy
That's not how you spell "things I don't like".
>it doesn't even resolve the issues Homura had with her original ending anyway
Homura has many unresolved issues, but Rebellion does resolve two: that her entire existence amounted to failure and that her wish was unfulfilled, not in the indirect way that the girls did not wish for what they truly wanted, but in the sense that the actual stipulations in her contract were not met.
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>>179189090
Everything about Kyuubey in Rebellion was garbage, he's probably the character that was most fucked over. And nothing about his plan even made sense or should have been possible, it was all fucking stupid.
>>
>>179183519
Did nobody else watch End of Eva?

the point is:
>Japanese fans are even worse and more retarded than we are, and they are always wrong
>Therefor they must be trolled mercilessly
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>>179189090
>plotholes
If you want to toss around the word "plothole", Homura is a walking plothole at the end of the TV series. Except not, because my "conjecture" is implied by the series itself.

>wraiths with presumably Madoka's bow
Not Madoka's, it's different.
>How did she get it back in Rebellion
By creating it within her witch's barrier.
>How is she still able to become a witch in a world without them
This was explained: she isn't in a world without them.
> How and why would Kyubey go to such great lengths over curiosity of tales told by Homura of witches
Because the fact that he doesn't remember contracting with her supports the idea that she's from another timeline.
>which also doesn't fit his indifferent utilitarian approach
Changing a system to a more efficient one is utilitarian.
>He doesn't even care about the earth exploding in the series, effectively ending their energy gathering scheme entirely
Because Earth filled its quota so now they can farm energy from other planets. Are you fucking speedwatching?
>How would him capturing Madoka do anything
Because Madoka is the law of nature that destroys witches, and altering it would change its consequences.
>She's a fictional character in a story. The only choice she has is the writer's choice
Now I understand. You're stuck in a meta perspective, and therefore cannot follow the thought processes of characters that lead to their actions. You will never comprehend Rebellion and your understanding of the TV series is severely limited.
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>>179183519
Homura worked her ass off to let Madoka have her cake (save all the magical girls) and eat it too (have a normal human life). Now she is acting edgy because she feels like interfering with Madoka's wish in any way is sacrilege.
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>>179183519
>What was the point?
series was unexpectedly succesfull, so they came out with a rushed and half assed way to extend the franchise milking life
also i enjoyed rebellion
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Rebellion is the masterpiece of the Madoka franchise. The TV series is just merely above average.
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YuYuYu was better
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>>179187582
I'm not.
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Reminder to read the live threads

https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Threads#General_Threads
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>>179183519
Only brainlets didn't like Rebellion, because they couldn't understand it.

Prove me wrong.
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>>179190494
Based
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>>179189665
fuck that cake scene was kino
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Just waiting for the inevitable crossover with Kamen Rider Gaim. Any decade now.
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>>179183519
I came to this thread hoping this image was posted.

It wan't.

So I'm posting it.
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Homura did nothing wrong
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>watching a shitty Ryuki rip-off
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>>179187582
cause Rebellion is too addicting that makes you want more of these stuff
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>>179192562
Not to mention best girl Homura still hasn't gotten laid yet and that needs to be remedied asap.
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>>179183519
You might not like it but it was a perfect ending for people with above 100 IQ.
Homura was only MG with wish unfulfilled from original universe. All wishes must be fulfilled by cosmic karma. Wish is fulfilled.
Left open ended enough for a sequel or insert your own head canon. The end.
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>>179190534
That needs updating. I doubt it has archived all the /u/ threads let alone the revival of the Madoka Magica Online General, the threads of /PMMM/.
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>>179183519
Prince Sayaka is extremely handsome.
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>>179193459
Why would you want to preserve something that's utterly devoid of any value?
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>>179195762
Homu is more handsome.
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>>179184494
Honestly you get it more than /a/ does. The angst wasnt necessarily out of character but it took Homura in a darker direction while ep 12 gave many the idea that she would get over it eventually. People theorized that her wings were her powers as a sort of archangel to Madoka, not literally going Witch right then and there. It took a nosedive, and as they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." I wouldn't be surprised if there was a huge loss of interest due to it taking a dump on Madoka and Homura's potential in having a relationship by going the generic "creepy lesbian" route (even if you argue Homura was putting it on, it still applies).
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>>179185273
Citations?
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>>179187293
I disagree with calling OP that but I do think this post is interesting. Doesn't stop it from being infuriating that continuation never though.
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>>179187293
Thank you very much for posting this.
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>>179186760
Rebellion has exactly as much closure as the original series did. Sayaka being disgruntled with the way things are is parallel to Homura being severely depressed about the way things are.
>>
Rebellion is shit deal with it fag
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>>179196096
>butchering Homura's pretty hair
Please no! Homura is very much a cute beauty type, her long flowing hair is one of her charm points!
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>>179183519
Rebellion fucked everything up and the mobage shit won't be saving us.
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>>179184290
The end of the movie being arguably more happy than the end of the anime doesn't mean the movie end is the better one. It's just the one you prefer because you don't like the idea of Madoka suffering in the end. Part of what makes the ending to the anime great is that while yes, Madoka was forced to give up everything to save everyone, at least Homura would always remember her. I know a lot of people on /a/ dislike bittersweet endings, but Madoka Magica was better off for it.
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>>179183519
Watch Rebellion again and pay EXTRA special attention to the garden scene. It can change your whole outlook on it.
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>>179183519
not only was it a big 'reset' button for the story for whatever the fuck they were planning on doing after and never did, but it was also fanservice central with all the shipping nonsense and the humanized charlotte advertised like crazy to sell tickets. undeniable because her character was pointlessly shoehorned in the movie and did absolutely nothing besides act moe and talk about how much she loved cheese or something. what a shitshow.
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>>179191885
Very good image.
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Condemning Homura to live in a world without Madoka, who's been her sole reason for existing for the past twelve years, with the added baggage of traumatic memories of seeing her friends and beloved die over and over again was a dick move on Madoka's part and was bound to end badly. She should have known better than to think Homura would adapt to and accept that situation. Homura would never accept a world in which Madoka never existed and her friends and family never having any memories of her.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0em_Bg0OGA
Chiaki Riko
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>>179196795
maybe homura should fucking move on with her life and not be a selfish bitch. she undid the most selfless act ever committed by a human for her own desires.
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>>179196428
Disagree. Homura did not seem depressed in the ending of the anime, even offering the ribbon to Junko. The final scene was bitterswet but ambiguous. Many, myself included, interpreted it as Madoka and Homura being reunited again someday, somehow, as they still have some sort of magical connection. Rebellion isn't completely out of character but it's "oh she was completely miserable and immediately died in the last scene" was kind of shitty.
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>>179196096
I don't mind it. I wonder what would make Homu cut her hair?
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>>179196828
She’s keeping her promise. Madoka doesn’t want to be a concept living alone by herself for the rest of eternity. She would never want that and even if in the anime series she made it seem like she did it’s because she’s helping everybody else and sacrificing herself. If anything you’re being selfish for wanting her to do it. Would you get mad a Jesus if he decided not to sacrifice himself for humanity despite being a good person?
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>>179196828
The LoC still works, she merely assured Madoka gets to live a fullfilling and happy life as a human without having to suffer alone as a concept for all eternity. She even gave the other girls a chance at normality and is the only one to suffer in her new universe. Homura has suffered so much mental trauma from her looping that she's simply unable to move on from her goal of protecting Madoka and it's unrealistic to expect her to just abandon that purpose.
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>>179196987
nobody wanted or even asked madoka to do what she did. she made the decision on her own. i'm not sure what your point is. i'm talking about homura's decision to undo the resolution of hers and many other's terrible reality for her own selfish desires. in fact, the world is now worse off because of what homura did, because the current reality is an untenable farce.

>>179197036
the only thing she's given them the chance of is living a lie.
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>>179197118
>in fact, the world is now worse off because of what homura did, because the current reality is an untenable farce.
Explain how this makes the world worse off?
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Homu is a good girl who dindu nuffin and anyone who disagrees is a brainlet.
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>>179197213
Cool story Kuro.
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>>179197202
because it's an unstable false reality predicated on selfishness and lies? even into the first day madoka is already feeling something isn't right. there is no way homura will be able to keep things this way, and it's design is out of pure selfishness. she literally took the form of a devil to create it. how is this not obvious?
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>>179197254
Homura will just have to give her daily hugs and everything will work out fine. The devil motif stems from her catholic upbringing.
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>>179197399
>He thinks a false reality is worse than the real world
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>>179197399
This. Everything will be fine so long as they meet their cuddling quotas.
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My only real beef with Rebellion(and with the original series as well desu) is that it feels like a first draft.
There's shit there which does not really fit with other stuff, and the script probably needed a couple more iterations before it was in the sweet spot.

It's hard to explain, but hopefully anons get where I'm coming from.
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>>179197254
So your problem is the memory wiping, which Madoka performed as well when she rewrote the universe so that nobody would remember her. I don't see how Homura's selfish motivations are any worse than Madoka's selfless ones, in fact I'd say that's the whole point of Rebellion, to set up yin-yang dualism of selfishness and selflessness between Madoka and Homura, and how it makes them so similar and thus never able to be together or see eye-to-eye.
>she literally took the form of a devil to create it.
She fashioned herself into the form of a devil because she had reached the narrative maturity point to understand this duality between her and Madoka, so it was both a tongue-in-cheek reference to her being Madoka's opposite, as well as an act of self-loathing.
Homura's universe is demonstrably no more "stable" than Madoka's, seeing as how Madoka's universe DID fail, despite seeming very stable and non-upsettable.

So in those terms Homura's universe is equivalent to Madoka's. I'd rather define which is "better" by seeing the collective-sum of happiness in both universes. Homura's has all of the positives of Madoka's universe, such as Magical Girl Valhalla (run by enslaved incubators this time), but with the objective positive of Madoka being able to live a happy life. Sayaka and Madoka were showing bits of remembrance, but overall are happy with their regular lives.
>>
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>>179197580
I don't, if you have examples that would help.
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>>179197249
Can you stop ban evading just for the sake of attacking people, please. This thread is actually normal discussion, please stop trying to ruin it.
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Can't believe people are still rabidly defending Shinbou's cashgrab.
Meanwwile the franchise is stuck in mobage limbo while Urobuchi is happily playing with his Chinese puppets.
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>>179183920
Homura broke Madoka in two parts: a goddess part that continue to make magical girls disappear before they become witches, and a human part which still lives with her friends. The deep ramifications of this move are not exactly now.
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>>179197773
A lot of people are happy whit his puppets.
They're taiwanese though.
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>>179197525
Madohomu cuddling will save the world.
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>>179197773
Puppets are cool, though.
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>tfw you'll never be sexually assaulted in the school hallway by your hot new female classmate
Madoka is so lucky
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Daily reminder that Homura's wish was not for Madoka to be saved, but for her to be the one who saved Madoka. Homura's selfish wish forms the counterpoint to Sayaka's agony over her desire to be appreciated for her sacrifice warring with her need to embody a selfless heroic ideal; Homura makes the choice without a second thought.

Until the end of Rebellion her wish remained ungranted. Just like Madoka, she accumulated her karmatic burden until it was sufficient to snap the universe in two.
>>
Listen to kimi no gin no niwa and read the translation. It‘s basically Homura explaining what she did and why she did it.

The ending of rebellion ends with a question:
„Do you think Homura was right?“
And she herself does not know.

I realized that wether you like the ending of rebellion or not fundamentally depends on your own values. It is a great ending, and if you don‘t like it, then that is because you disagree with Homura. Not because it is bad
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>>179198512
She was literally the only magical girl left at that point. She couldn't exactly wish for Mami to save Madoka.
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>>179186748
>Please explain this
There are many unspoken assumptions or simply accepted features of magical girl shows that are broken down in Madoka. A few examples include:
>magical girls fight all kinds of horrible monsters all the time and yet they usually seem totally fine with it? How can a kid cope with that kind of pressure?
Genere convention: the power of friendship!
Madoka: they can't. They're fucking middle schoolers.
>where do these cute mascots keep coming from and why do they go around giving kids superpowers?
Convention: shhh, don't question the exposition device.
Madoka: profit.
>wouldn't keeping the whole secret identity thing be really stressful?
Convention: MC's secret (almost) getting out is fodder for gags and filler episodes, has little to no impact on their behavior outside those moments.
Madoka: stress directly contributes to one girl going insane, drives one to make herself a pariah, fuels another's indecision for several episodes. Exposure destroyed one girl's life.
>intercast conflict?
Convention: fight twice, friends by the season finale.
Madoka: in most time lines this ends in murder.
>isn't it kinda strange that nobody ever dies for real in these shows?
Convention: that's just not the way we do things.
Madoka: hold my beer.
>>
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>>179197773
Face it. Urobuchi doesn't want to come back yet and probably not for a while. You want a Rebellion sequel so bad? Make one without Urobuchi.

Mobage is the best you've got and damn it is fun.
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>>179199089
Too bad the story is shit.
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>Someone please convince me that Rebellion didn't just completely ruin everything in the original series story
Why would I convince you of something that's blatantly wrong?
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>>179183519
I agree. That's why I refuse to watch it. In my reality the movie never happened.
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Maitake should write the Rebellion sequel.
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>>179190494
(You)(You)(You) always fucks up by shoehorning a happy ending in situations where it's fucking impossible to have a happy ending without some deus ex machina bullshit. That's why the prequel is the best part of the series.
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>>179198666
That doesn't follow. Just like Sayaka wished for someone to healed rather than to become a healer, Homura could have wished for Madoka to be saved without becoming a savior. She choose, and would not accept less, than to save Madoka herself.
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>>179199190
At least we got the mobage out of the sequel forcing.
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>>179183519
There was something in Madoka left to ruin?
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>>179199333
No, she actually couldn't have, because Madoka already witched out at that point. And Madoka's karmic destiny was higher than Homura's, so Homura literally couldn't have just directly bought Madoka back to life/unwitched.
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>>179199389
>And Madoka's karmic destiny was higher than Homura's
Not at that point. During the first loop Madoka was utterly ordinary and unremarkable. Further, there's nothing to indicate that a wish can't bring a Witch back. In fact, it'd be the perfect with from an Incubator's perspective: you get a new magical girl, and all it costs is the opportunity to harvest another girl twice. The dispair of watching the object of her wish eventually slide into witchdom again is baked right into the wish, no twisting needed. Koobs would love it.
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>>179199526
I'm fairly sure Madoka was still well above average even in the first timeline.

Homura and Madoka's power increased at the same rate with each time loop. Madoka got more "hope power" with each loop and Homura got more "despair power" with each time loop. Which made Madoka a stronger magical girl and Homura a stronger witch. Love is what made Homura finally stronger than Madoka, and thus able to overwrite her wish.
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>>179198888
The Madoka characters deal with fighting monsters just as well as in any other Mahou Shoujo story. The thing that breaks the characters is the revelation of their purpose in the Incubator's machinations, as well as the nature of their souls and bodies after contracting.
The cute mascots are always addressed and explained. Kyuubey's motivations being darker than others does not make him a deconstruction of the archetype, it merely makes him different.
I don't remember any of their secrets getting out or being in danger of getting out, are you sure we watched the same show? Madoka simply ignores the possibility of their identities getting revealed because it's not a detail worth focusing on in its relatively short runtime. I can't imagine who you are talking about in any of your examples.
Again, intercast conflict should have nothing to do with any definition of "deconstruction." The characters coming into violent and deadly conflict with each other is absolutely no more "realistic" or logical than the more child-friendly resolutions in typical Mahou Shoujo.
And I think I've already adressed why characters dying isn't a deconstruction of genre conventions. At best you can say it's a subversion but subversions are not inherently valuable. Mahou Shoujo is not even remotely close to the only genre to regularly pit characters in dangerous situations but never cause any deaths. Death toll has nothing to do with genre and everything to do with both the demographics and the potential purpose those deaths can serve.

Madoka is one of my favourite anime so don't think I'm here to shit on it, but this deconstruction meme should have died a long time ago and I could have sworn it had. If anything Madoka should be seen as a reconstruction of the Mahou Shoujo genre, since it applies a lot of the darkest possibilities to the narrative devices and typical plot beats, yet in the end ultimately reaffirms that the foundational backbone of Mahou Shoujo is still correct.
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>>179199738
>I'm fairly sure Madoka was still well above average even in the first timeline.
I don't think there's anything at all that would suggest such a conclusion.
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>>179189164
>Not mutually exclusive.

Wrong. Love is not obsession. Knowing when to let go is part of love. Remember the scene in episode 11 when Madoka convinces her mother to let her leave the shelter? A particularly important scene that describes exactly what I'm talking about. She loved her enough to let her own daughter go out into the storm to do what needed to be done, even though she couldn't understand why and would never return. Something Homura COULDN'T do, at least in Rebellion.

>But still reflective of her character.
>Untrue.

Wrong. Here's part of the audio commentary "Yuuki asks about Madoka's wish: do they think that it's 'correct'? Urobuchi says that he can't say it's not right; it's quite something for a middle school girl. Aoki says that Madoka was able to really gather a lot of experiences together before making her decision."

You can't selectively remove part of someone's memory and then claim they are the same person. It's delusion on Homura's part. She's only seeing the parts she wants to see.

>Homura's unwillingness to let go is what made the ending possible.

Madoka broke the cycle that Homura was repeating.

>The beginning was, not the ending, and I shouldn't need to explain wherein the difference lies.

Which is why the ending makes even less sense, even in Rebellion's own context. Homura's false reality gets shattered and you think she's going to realize she was wrong, but instead she steals part of Madoka's power to shroud the entire universe in a false reality labyrinth. They should have scrapped the pointless Incubator shield nonsense and had THAT be the plot of the movie, and resolved it at the end. I guess that wouldn't set up another movie or series though.

>No, it hints that if Homura's plans go awry, she'll set them right.

Stick with what is shown in the movie, not what you want to believe. She literally says she's not sure if it's going to work out.
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>>179199905
That she was able to 1v1 Walmart's Night for quite away.
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>>179200004
But she lost to Walpurgis. Nothing about the fight is known except for her resulting death.
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>>179199802
>I can't imagine who you are talking about in any of your examples.
Having a secret that she can't share contributed in part to Sayaka's collapse because she couldn't stand the thought of kissing him with a corpse's lips and actually involving/informing him of the circumstances wasn't on the table. Exposure of her wish destroyed Kyoko's family. The inherent isolation of keeping a secret is one of the primary reasons for Mami's loneliness.
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>>179200147
We know it went on a while. Because there were a few jump cut time shots.
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>>179200147
If Madoka and Homura were at the same level when they started, and they both had their hope/despair power increased at the same rate, why did Homura need "love power" in order to undo Madoka's wish.
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>>179189164

>It added the logical extension of Homura's character, an individualist narrative, reflection of the consequences of Madoka's wish, and another perspective on love and self-sacrifice.

Everything was already wrapped up in the end of the anime. There was no love or self-sacrifice in Homura's actions in Rebellion. I assume that was kind of the point, but it added nothing to the story and infact took away from the series, as well as Homura as a character. She's shown as being weak, obsessive, manipulative and unable to let go. It doesn't reinforce her character from the show, it regresses it. Her character arc from episode 10 to 12 was completed and showed a bittersweet but hopeful ending for her.

>That's not how you spell "things I don't like".

I should have said "poorly written".

>Homura has many unresolved issues, but Rebellion does resolve two: that her entire existence amounted to failure and that her wish was unfulfilled, not in the indirect way that the girls did not wish for what they truly wanted, but in the sense that the actual stipulations in her contract were not met.

No kidding? That was the point of the entire series. The soul gems cost more than the miracles. Not a single magical girl ever truly got the wish they hoped for, and died soon after. Homura's original wish was to re-do her encounter with Madoka and become strong enough to protect her. She got her wish. Her priorities changed when Madoka asked her to go back in time again and convince her not to accept the contract with Kyubey. She succeeded with this as well, to a point. Turns out, Madoka is her own entity with her own desires and experiences. She would ALWAYS accept the contract to save her friends, no matter what. That's why the garden scene is jarring as fuck and out of character for Madoka. It's a delusion of what Homura wanted to believe.
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>>179200370
>There was no love [...] in Homura's actions in Rebellion.
Demonstrably wrong.
>[or self-sacrifice]
That was the point, yeah. You just misunderstood her character in the TV series. Rebellion does nothing less than expand on and explore her character in greater detail, nothing about it is regressive. When anon said that it's another perspective on self-sacrifice, he's not saying that Homura performed self-sacrifice, but rather than her story in Rebellion shows that Madoka's self-sacrifice wasn't as universally good as she believed it would be. Madoka's martyr syndrome is ironically more selfish in some ways than anything Homura has done.
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>>179200251
The only time-jump-cut scene transitions are from Mami's house to Mami being dead in the ruins of the city, and then cut from that to Madoka being dead. The only thing we can reasonably be sure of about the fight is that by the time the final scene for that timeline comes about, with Madoka dead, is that Walpurgis is not there. It seems obvious to me that Walpurgis has just moved on with its nomadic travels of destruction, but I suppose it is technically possible that Walpurgis was killed and defeated in between the two scenes. It just wouldn't make any sense at all for Madoka to possess the power necessary to do that feat, so I find it unbelievable as a possibility.

>>179200309
What?
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>>179200638
What I said is very self explanatory. It was also talked about previously in the thread. >>179199738
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>>179200638
No one is claiming that timeline one Madoka beat Walpurgis. They're saying she lasted a while against it, which would make her stronger than your average magical girl.
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We are approaching Halloween and it's time for...

Magical Girl of the Day: Karin Misono
-This girl is the Halloween-themed Magical Girl. Originally released for the Halloween event
-Made her wish on Halloween. Dressed as a Cute Witch. The Magical Girl born on Halloween. Phantom Thief Karin.
-When she's a Magical Girl she models herself after her favourite, fictional, Magical Girl series Magical Kirin. She calls herself Magical K"A"rin
-Writes self-insert fanfiction posing as manga
-Alina Gray's kouhai (one of the main villain) at her school. The two of them are paired together for a SenpaixKouhai pair. Alina is an famous and Karin is a budding mangaka.
-She gives her self-insert manga to Alina to critique. Alina usually criticises her fanfiction as being trash and takes her strawberry milk as punishment.
-But Senpai stills offers to teach her.
-Her art is actually pretty bad.
-The only member of the Manga Research Club and Alina-senpai is the only member of the Art Club. She shares a room with senpai.
-Originally she styled herself as a Robin Hood-esque character stealing grief seed from the strong (Yachiyo) and giving to the weak (Kaede). That was until Yacchan told her to cut her shit.
-Held a play with a bunch of girls including Kyouko on Halloween
-Made a wish to cure her grandma's kleptomania, this gave her the power to steal anything including the weapons of other Magical Girls
-Voiced by Hisako Kanemoto, who was Kanata in Sora no Oto. Ayana Taketatsu (Azunyan) plays her senpai. PLEASE COME BACK IN TIME FOR THE ANIME HIICHAN!
-One of two side characters in the game designed by Ume-sensei.
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>>179200809
And I don't see much to suggest that. She lasted longer than Mami but there are so many variables in a fight that it's impossible to draw conclusions from that alone. It's just as likely that as the senior magical girl, Mami was taking the lead in the fight while Madoka hung back in a safer, supportive role.

>>179200761
I'm more questioning why you're responding to me about it. I'm not talking about post-timeline#1 Madoka, nor about the mechanics of Homura's "ai yo."
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>>179189511

Doesn't really matter about the bow. Point was to show she didn't have her time ability. Why would she have it in Kyubey's experiment? Why would she be able to turn into a witch under ANY circumstance after Madoka's change to the cycle? Why would Kyubey who didn't care about earth being destroyed in the series, suddenly care about the tales Homura told him of witches and Madoka? He'd go through all the trouble to experiment on Homura in hopes to do what, exactly? None of it was well thought out, and reflect poorly on the characters. It's just bad writing. Kyubey explains that humans are the only species they know where ALL beings have their own emotions, so your head canon is broke, pal.

You're too busy stuck on worrying about the characters that you missed the forest for the trees. Many animes fall into this trap. It's a classic cash grab, trying to drum up enough motivation to start up another season. PMMM was written and finished 3 years before it entered it's first production run. It was almost another 3 years until Rebellion came out. The never intended for this shit, and it shows.
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>>179192834

>Homura was only MG with wish unfulfilled from original universe. All wishes must be fulfilled by cosmic karma. Wish is fulfilled.

I'm sorry, did we watch the same show?
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>>179201320
She has her time-stop because the movie takes place inside her soul gem.
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>>179201190
>I'm more questioning why you're responding to me about it
Because if madoka and Homura we're equal from that start she wouldn't have needed ai yo power. Which proves that in time line one she was weaker than madoka.
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>>179200489

>Shrouding the entire universe in a lie so one girl could maybe live a normal life shows self-sacrifice and love.

Complete delusion. I understand why so many people liked Rebellion now. They live in delusion every day.

If you understood and accepted the ending of the anime series, then you would naturally be upset with the garbage that was Rebellion. If you wanted the series to continue, no matter the cost of the integrity of the story or it's characters, then you naturally would love Rebellion. It's the same refusal to let go and move on that Homura had in Rebellion. It's actually pretty meta and somewhat fitting of the ultimate pleb filter.
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>>179201320
>Why would she be able to turn into a witch under ANY circumstance after Madoka's change to the cycle?
Because the Law of Cycles functions by automatically intercepting a Magical Girl's soul in the split-moment before they finalise transformation into a Witch. The Incubators closed pocket reality experiment is specifically designed to cut off the subject (in this case Homura) from potential influence by the Law of Cycles. Thus, without LoC interfering, Homura is able to complete her transformation into a Witch during the movie.
>He'd go through all the trouble to experiment on Homura in hopes to do what, exactly?
Because the incubators are an inquisitive species and have observed the effects of the phenomenon known as the Law of Cycles, but can't sufficiently explain its existence or why it would be happening. That, coupled with the potential to control such a force for their own purposes is what motivates the Incubators, I remember this being made pretty clear in the movie.
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>>179183519
Rebellion is the only good part. Far better than the mediocre anime.
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>>179201725
You did not understand a single thing I just wrote. Your "quote" from me is pretty much the exact opposite of what I said. That coupled with most of your other statements makes it obvious that you are not worth continuing a "discussion" with.
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>>179201704
Ah, I understand. I disagree with that initial hypothesis, though. HomuLilly did not seem nearly as equivalent in power or scale to Godoka, so to say that the two of them increased in karmic power equally is completely baseless. And besides, Madoka's witch form makes it clear that the power of a magical girl is directly proportional to the power of her witch. If Homura's despair was making her into the most powerful Witch, then she would also be the most powerful Magical Girl, or at least on par with Madoka who is a literal God. Since that is not the case, your theory is proven wrong.
Homura's AI YO and stealing of Madoka's godhood was not a move that relied on powerlevels or anything like that. Theoretically any Magical Girl who is getting taken in to the Law of Cycles COULD do what Homura did, since it is merely interfering with Madoka directly, who is otherwise an impermeable and non-interactive force of the universe. The moment Madoka comes down to save a girl's soul is the moment when she is most vulnerable, but that is usually not a problem because her action is purely benevolent and, aside from Homura's very specific and twisted situation, there is no reason any girl would ever even entertain the idea of usurping Madoka's godhood at that moment. It is Homura's specifically twisted experiences up until that point which is the so-called power of love that allows her to take down Madoka. Which is to say that it is just a mindset she is in, not a "powerup."
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>>179201516

>She has her time-stop because the movie takes place inside her soul gem.

But WHY? There is no precedent for it. It makes sense that her time power was gone after Madoka's change to the universe. Her ONLY ability was to stop time and travel back ONLY to the point where she wished to go back to: just before meeting Madoka. If she still had the ability to go back in time after the LoC is set up, then shouldn't she be able to go ALL the way back to before it? Why would she not have it but have it part of her soul gem exclusively?

You don't have to provide an answer, there simply isn't one that doesn't devolve into "head canon".

>>179201737

>Because the Law of Cycles functions by automatically intercepting a Magical Girl's soul in the split-moment before they finalise transformation into a Witch. The Incubators closed pocket reality experiment is specifically designed to cut off the subject (in this case Homura) from potential influence by the Law of Cycles. Thus, without LoC interfering, Homura is able to complete her transformation into a Witch during the movie.

Makes sense, I got that from the movie, but it made me have more questions near the end of the series. Why did Sayaka die at the end of the series after the LoC is enacted? How do the MG's replenish their soul gem energy without the ability to collect Grief Seeds? This isn't explained at the end of the series.

>Because the incubators are an inquisitive species and have observed the effects of the phenomenon known as the Law of Cycles, but can't sufficiently explain its existence or why it would be happening. That, coupled with the potential to control such a force for their own purposes is what motivates the Incubators, I remember this being made pretty clear in the movie.

That's fine, but it's still out of character considering they were willing to let Earth get destroyed. It shows either a lack of power to intervene or indifference, maybe both.
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>>179201840

Okay. Thanks for playing.
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>>179183920
Homura made Madoka's sacrifice unnecessary. She broke Madoka away from the LoC so she could live a normal human life. Most people think of it being that the LoC is now Madoka's "goddess half" and her "human half" is living a normal life.

I don't really see it that way. I think of it as the LoC is on its own, as Madoka herself was taken from it and made a normal human again.
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>>179202187
Homulilliy only existed inside Homura's soul gem world. It wasn't actually her Ai yo witch from.

>And besides, Madoka's witch form makes it clear that the power of a magical girl is directly proportional to the power of her witch.
Not exactly. As Kyuubey (and Kyouko) stated, there needs to be an equal amount of hope and despair in the universe and that's how it maintains balance.

As Madoka's hope increased there needed to be an off-set. Which was Homura's despair.

Madoka automatically becomes a witch after she beats Walpurgis because of the fact that she just destroyed a huge amount of despair and it needs to be replaced, and since she's the largest source of hope, it has to be her.
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>>179183519
Rebellion was literally the best part. Shaft will never match it again and sequel never ever.
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>>179202248
>Why did Sayaka die at the end of the series after the LoC is enacted?
Because Magical Girls still die when they use up their energy? They were fighting a Wraith and, as Mami says, Sayaka used up the last of her energy for a powerful attack, and just disappeared. The scene with Madoka and Sayaka in the theatre watching Kyousuke perform was Sayaka in the "afterlife" being taken away by the LoC.
>How do the MG's replenish their soul gem energy without the ability to collect Grief Seeds?
They might not, or they might use a new system that works with the Wraiths. We don't know much at all about the mechanics for the new system in place, and I don't think we need to either. We just know that some sort of system needs to be in place so that entropy can be dealt with, and so that humanity can advance beyond the cave age.
>but it's still out of character considering they were willing to let Earth get destroyed.
I don't really see it as being out of character, they aren't acting in order to save the earth or anything, they are acting in the interest of increasing the efficiency of their anti-entropy operations.
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>>179185456
>Ah yes the movie where Homura overpowers Madoka with Deus ex Machina and becomes a more powerful god with zero consequences or sacrifices on her end, a much better story than the TV end that needed everyone to compromise.
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>>179202494

The whole point of Madoka's sacrifice was to break this cycle. She becomes a messiah figure for all magical girls. Rebellion undoes this on a whim, and drags us back to the karma justice cycle so it could presumably start another series that never happened.

>>179202704
>I don't really see it as being out of character, they aren't acting in order to save the earth or anything, they are acting in the interest of increasing the efficiency of their anti-entropy operations.

It is out of character considering they would simply let their only reliable source of emotional energy be completely destroyed. If they couldn't or didn't care in the series, then I cannot suspend my disbelief in their desire to experiment on even flimsier notions of more energy.

Actually, one interesting note to that is the fear that Kyubey shows when Homura again rewrites the cycle. It's the first time Kyubey ever shows any emotion. He says he thinks it's becoming too dangerous to continue using the magical girls as a form of energy. This is actually an interesting piece of writing. Which is why I have so much trouble with Rebellion in general. It's well-written in a lot of it's parts, the ending is just retarded even from a self-contained movie standpoint.
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To Rebelfags, do you actually believe the Homura who offered Junko the ribbon Madoka gave as a relic of her existence is capable of what she did in Rebellion?

Bow Homura seemed ready to protect Madoka new world with the hope that they'd meet again in death.
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>>179203068
>The whole point of Madoka's sacrifice was to break this cycle
How does that relate to what I said. Like, at all.
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>>179202494
>Homulilliy wasn't her witch form
You're going to have to defend this claim with evidence, I find it to be nonsense.

>there needs to be an equal amount of hope and despair in the universe
Yes, they're referring explicitly to the Witch forms of Magical Girls. Madoka's Witch materialises to match her near-infinite wellspring of hope, as shown in your screencap. THAT is the despair to offset Madoka's hope, not Homura. Because Madoka's wish is absolute and immutable, that despair is defeated. The whole point is that Madoka beat the system, which is why the universe needed to be reset and rewritten. They are now in a universe that does not demand the balance of despair and hope.

>>179203068
I still don't see that as being out of character to them. They don't have the power to stop Madoka's witch form from the destroying the world, so they simply state the facts as they are. Besides, Kyuubey's dialogue implied that the energy harvested from Madoka was enough to offset the loss of the entire planet. Incubators wanting to experiment with the LoC really doesn't have anything in relation with their acceptance of the earth's destruction.
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>>179203220
If you believe that people become different persons based on the accumulation of their experiences over their lifetime, and the "same" person is in fact different from his past self of a year ago (for example), then no, I don't think the Homura who gave Junko the ribbon is capable of doing what she did in the Rebellion.
There was kind of, like, a whole movie focused on building Homura up to that final decision.
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>>179185781
taiwanese puppets > japanese animation
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>>179203613
>You're going to have to defend this claim with evidence
The fact that you quite literally only see it ever exist while Homura's soul gem is not broken, and inside her dream world.

Sorry, but did you even watch Rebellion?

>THAT is the despair to offset Madoka's hope
No, that was something new entirely caused by Madoka's wish. The fact we see Madoka automatically turn into a witch when she defeats Walpurgis is what shows that the despair/hope isn't currently off set.

>They are now in a universe that does not demand the balance of despair and hope.
Wraiths are still there, and so are magical girls. The balance is still needed, the burden is just not on all the magical girls.
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>>179203384
>As Madoka's hope increased there needed to be an off-set. Which was Homura's despair.

In relation to this. It didn't. That was part of breaking the cycle.
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>>179203882
>The fact that you quite literally only see it ever exist while Homura's soul gem is not broken, and inside her dream world.
>Sorry, but did you even watch Rebellion?
Yes, obviously Homulilly existed within Homura's Soul Gem as did most of the events of Rebellion, but that's not what I'm asking, dumbass. What evidence do you have to say that it is not Homura's Witch form? The soul gem of Homura within the pocket dimension broke and she became that witch, and Homura within that dimension (her soul gem) was pretty explicitly made to be literally Homura in every possible way. So if that Homura transformed into Homulilly, how are you at the conclusion that a Witch-ified Homura in the higher reality, the real world, would not take the form of Homulilly?
And even beyond all of that, what is Homulilly supposed to be if not Homura's witch form? I'm very interested in your fanfictions.

>No, that was something new entirely caused by Madoka's wish.
How is it something different? The comet is explicitly her soul gem according to Kyuubey, and when it reaches earth it transforms into a witch-like creature and is referred to as "enough despair to destroy the universe" as a counter-balance to Madoka's hope which is "enough to create a universe." Madoka then shows up in her God-form and refers to her prayer of destroying all Witches before destroying the creature. Do you really need a narrator to explicitly state in plain terms that it was Madoka's Witch?
>The fact we see Madoka automatically turn into a witch when she defeats Walpurgis is what shows that the despair/hope isn't currently off set.
Which happened before she rewrote the universe, yes.
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>>179204223
>In relation to this. It didn't. That was part of breaking the cycle.
Madoka didn't break the cycle, she just reordered it.
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>>179203220
Homura's actions in Rebellion is consistent with her character throughout the series. Her accepting the new world Madoka goes against her mission of ensuring Madoka lives and does so happily. Having a 14 year old girl spend eternity as a lonely concept is a cruel fate and Homura saved her from that.
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>>179204427
Pedantics. She changed the cycle so that hope must no longer be offset by equivalent despair, which is why it is relevant to bring up in response to your points.
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>>179204505
That's literally not what she did. Hope and despair being equal is a law of the universe, it has to happen.

All Madoka did was make it so that Magical girls didn't have to turn into witches.
If Madoka broke how the universe works, there would have been no need for the wraiths.
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>>179204446
>literally around every MG that ever existed and her best friend as her "secretary"
>lonely
>>
Rebellion doesn't change anything from the original series, it only reinforces elements that were already present.

Original series: Homura wants to protect Madoka, gets rejected.
Rebellion: Homura wants to protect Madoka, gets rejected again.
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>>179204666
But the original series is easy to misinterpret, so people see Rebellion as a desecration of what they think the original was saying.
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>>179204621
>That's literally not what she did. Hope and despair being equal is a law of the universe, it has to happen.

Hope and despair have nothing to do with the "laws of the universe". That's why Kyubey harvests those emotional energies and why they offset entropy.

>All Madoka did was make it so that Magical girls didn't have to turn into witches.

Which breaks the cycle. I'm glad we agree.

>If Madoka broke how the universe works, there would have been no need for the wraiths.

As long as humanity exists, despair and curses will exist and need to be fought off. This is almost verbatim to what is explained at the end of the series.

I don't normally frequent /a/, is this board always this retarded? It's like half of the replies in this thread are from people who didn't even watch the show.
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>>179204374
>pocket dimension
It's not a "pocket dimension", it's just Homura's dream world. It exists in the same dimension as the real world. It's even mostly made of things from the real world. Homulilly is just what Homura envisions her witch form is. Homura can't have two soul gems, that's how you know the one that broke in her dream world wasn't actually her real witch/soul gem. The entire soulgem world is what Homura envisions a peaceful world for them would be like.

>How is it something different?
Because that's the full brunt of Madoka's totally amount of hope, as opposed to her just turning into a witch after beating Walpurgis previously.

>Which happened before she rewrote the universe, yes.
I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here. Obviously that happened before she rewrote the universe, what does that have to do with anything?
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>>179204666
>Rebellion doesn't change anything from the original series, it only reinforces elements that were already present.
>
>Original series: Homura wants to protect Madoka, gets rejected.
>Rebellion: Homura wants to protect Madoka, gets rejected again.

Wrong, but even if you were right, why repeat it in another movie?
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>>179202774
>Homura overpowers Madoka with Deus ex Machina and becomes a more powerful god with zero consequences or sacrifices on her end
Fucking speed watcher
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>>179204944
People wanted content, Butcher didn't want to change the message.
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>>179204893
>Hope and despair have nothing to do with the "laws of the universe".
Literally already addressed and proven wrong in this thread.
>Which breaks the cycle. I'm glad we agree.
Not having magical girls turn into witches says nothing about what happens with hope and despair.
>I don't normally frequent /a/, is this board always this retarded?
Thanks for outing yourself as a retard and letting me know not to reply to you anymore.
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>>179205019

Feel free to post some evidence from the show to back up your claims.
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>>179204936
>It exists in the same dimension as the real world. It's even mostly made of things from the real world.
A pocket dimension, yes.
>[soul gem stuff]
Wait so which is it, a dream world or something that hold true with the outside world? If she can't have two soul gems because the pocket dimension is consistent with the outside world, then it can't also be her dream realm wherein she ficticiously invents an appearance for her Witch form. Your logic is internally inconsistent.

>>179204936
>Because that's the full brunt of Madoka's totally amount of hope
Yes, her Witch form, by definition.

>>179204936
>I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make here.
Madoka turns into a witch because the witch form is the representation of the despair which must offset her hope, same as all magical girls. Godoka's witch form materialises as the representation of the despair which must offset her hope, same as before. These are happening because of the original universal rules as established and supported by the magical girl system. There is no universe-destroying Witch in the new world because Madoka changed the rules. If she didn't, the universe would exist in an endless cycle of creation and destruction as her infinite hope is constantly giving birth to infinite despair.
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Homura makes the world a better place for everyone without manipulating Madoka into entering a relationship with her and there are still brainlets who claim she's evil.
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>>179205362
No need when dealing with a retard. You can't understand anything anyway.

Here, have a cute picture of Madoka instead, I just saved it off twitter. I'm sure something shiny will distract you.
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>>179205515
It's been a while since I've seen someone this assblasted.
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>>179205549
So assblasted that you made yourself look really, really bad.
I'm so hurt by your self flagellation.
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>>179205480
Why did you link the same post three times?

>If she can't have two soul gems because the pocket dimension is consistent with the outside world, then it can't also be her dream realm wherein she ficticiously invents an appearance for her Witch form.
It's her witch labyrinth in essence. Like, she has control over that area. Saying it's a dream world is a figure of speech.

>There is no universe-destroying Witch in the new world because Madoka changed the rules
Oh, okay. I see where your lack of understanding is coming from.

That "universe-destroying Witch" isn't actually gone. She's constantly fighting against it. That's why she has to become a concept and is not longer a person. That's why Homura didn't like Madoka's wish, because it means she was constantly fighting against the universe for eternity.
>>
Every single post in this thread is wrong. Yes OP, the film did flip the whole show on itself and did kill the series. Yes, there was supposed to be a sequel film which could have wrapped it up better, but it's not out and stuck in development hell. So just enjoy the series minus the film as head canon.
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>>179205494
>makes herself Madoka first friend after ((moving))
>hugs her to repress Madokami reconnecting with this human sliver
>erases everyone's memory

Right no manipulation here
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>>179190494
The prequel was the best thing about it even though best girls died, but that's also what makes it so good.
Overall amazing OST though
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>>179205732
>That "universe-destroying Witch" isn't actually gone. She's constantly fighting against it. That's why she has to become a concept and is not longer a person. That's why Homura didn't like Madoka's wish, because it means she was constantly fighting against the universe for eternity.
Pic related.
>That's why Homura didn't like Madoka's wish
It is made extremely clear that Homura doesn't like Madoka's wish because she both can't see or interact with Madoka anymore, nor can Madoka live a normal life.

>It's her witch labyrinth in essence.
Yeah, and Witches reside in Witch Labyrinths. Homulilly in this case.
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>>179187293
The fact that there is still an argument after this post is retarded.
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My only problem with rebellion was how Homura's deus ex machina manifested and the fact that she suddenly had a plan and how to perfectly execute it with this new power. It just seemed very poorly written and forced. Especially how it completely belittles the incubators as an antagonist. And I guess I wasn't a fan of bebe despite Mami being my favorite meguca

That being said I think most complains in this threads are very similar to what you see in EVA threads about Asuka and Shinji. You don't have to like a character as a person to like them as a character in a story.
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>>179206191

Correct, and the only reason I can find people defending Homura's actions in Rebellion are tasteless waifu fags.

The whole ending was a farce. Homura couldn't accept that she was living in a fake Mitikahabara, but suddenly she's willing to labyrinth the entire fucking universe against the will of all of her friends?
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>>179206191
Did you not see how Homura's world was built with objects from the outside world?

>It is made extremely clear that Homura doesn't like Madoka's wish because
The very first thing she says when she finds out Madoka is going to spend eternity fighting against witches/despair is that it's worse than dying. That's what she cares about.

>Yeah, and Witches reside in Witch Labyrinths. Homulilly in this case.
Except that this is clearly not like a normal Labyrinth, as Homura's actual soul gem and body are still intact.
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>>179206600
But literally everything said in that post is wrong.
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>>179206757

Quality post, thanks for contributing.
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>>179206714
>Did you not see how Homura's world was built with objects from the outside world?
Your point being?

>>179206714
>The very first thing she says when she finds out Madoka is going to spend eternity fighting against witches/despair is that it's worse than dying. That's what she cares about.
Yes, I agree. That has nothing to do with any made-up idea about Kremhild Gretchen being omni-present and Godoka constantly fighting her off for all eternity.
>>179206714
>Except that this is clearly not like a normal Labyrinth, as Homura's actual soul gem and body are still intact.
Sure, it is a partially-formed labyrinth because the Incubators have slowed down the transformation process to a tremendous degree in the hopes of giving them enough time to observe and capture the Law of Cycles. I still don't see how any of these facts show that Homulilly is not Homura's Witch form.
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>>179206786
And you think your reddit tier pseudo upvote post here >>179206600 is quality?
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Homura should be given sainthood for not immediately locking Madoka up inside her rape dungeon as soon as she successfully extracted her from the law of cycles. Instead Homu denies herself the chance to experience Madoka's body despite it being her only opportunity to do so.
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>>179207119
She also didn't do anything lewd with Madoka over the course of ~100 time loops. Homura's love is the purest thing in existence.
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>>179206990
Why do you keep doing this? Are you phone posting and highlighting things, then pressing the post number to copy them or something?

>Your point being?
That it's not another dimension.
>That has nothing to do with any made-up idea
Literally stated within the series that she's going to be fighting witches for eternity.
>I still don't see how any of these facts show that Homulilly is not Homura's Witch form.
Because Homura's soul gem is still intact. Thus, that literally can't be her witch form.

Anyway, enough is enough. You clearly are not rational and can't be reasoned with. Enjoy having the last word. I can assure you I won't be reading whatever you say in reply to this post.
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>>179200489
>Madoka's martyr syndrome
Madoka's tendency to self-sacrifice is not a martyr complex. In fact, a martyr complex is something quite different to Madoka's mentality.

Someone with a martyr complex goes out of their way to seek out suffering or persecution in order to feel good about themselves, and they often enable the source of their suffering while simultaneously claiming to fight against it. A martyr complex is also known as a "victim complex" because of its nature.

This is not what Madoka does. Madoka actually tries to help because she thinks it's the right thing to do. Her willingness to self-sacrifice is due to her feelings of inadequacy; that her life is unimportant and best suited to serve others. The goes hand in hand with the fact that she actually enjoys helping people. If she actually had a real martyr complex, she would have still become a magical girl following Mami's death. As we can see, Madoka actually decided against it for her own wellbeing, which does not fit the definition of a martyr complex.
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>>179187582
You're allowed to think Rebellion is good while acknowledging that the ending is a cliffhanger
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>>179207115
Infinitely better than "no ur wrong, I won't explain why tho."

You are a cancer to any discussion board.
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>>179207447
It's hardly a cliffhanger. A lot of people were/are hoping that the post-credits scene doesn't imply that Homura commits suicide, but realistically speaking, that's exactly what it implies and it's pretty difficult to make a sequel to a franchise where the main protagonist has committed suicide.
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>>179207526
Nope, you were the one who tried to treat the site like it was reddit and "upvote" another post. You're the cancer here, sorry. The only reason you got a reply like that was because of how substanceless your post was in the first place.
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>>179207198
Homu deserves to do lewd things to Madoka after how much she's sacrificed for her sake. I don't think Madoka would protest too much either, and in case she does there's always the option of gagging her.
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>>179207605
I'm pretty sure she's just free falling for fun.
Her existence is literally the universe. I don't think a fall off a cliff will kill her.
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>>179207708
>taking SHAFT visuals literally
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>>179207605
>hurr killing a god's human avatar will kill the god

Brainlet
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>>179207801
Yeah, that's kind of my point. That you shouldn't take her jumping off a cliff to die literally.
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>>179207801
Why would Homura kill herself, one scene earlier we see that Homura has to stay close to Madoka to repress Madokami from retaking her human part.
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>>179183519
Time and time again the series show that even the best wishes end up causing an equal amount of suffering. Why did you think Madoka’s wish was any different?
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>>179207232
Phone posting doesn't do that, because clicking the post number deselects whatever you have highlighted. It's just a way to not bother pressing ctrl+c and ctrl+v, but I have a cold and forget to delete the backlinks.

>That it's not another dimension.
The definition of a pocket dimension is a dimensional space existing within another dimension. This is most typically represented by a large physical space being held within a relatively much smaller spatial zone of the parent dimension. For example, fitting the entirety of Mitakigahara within the confines of Homura's Soul Gem. It's literally a pocket dimension. Perhaps you are under the belief that other dimensions can only be parallel to one-another? That's not how it works. This is pendatry to the extreme, anyways. Even if you arbitrarily want to define it differently than a pocket dimension, that changes nothing about either of our sides of the argument.
>Literally stated within the series that she's going to be fighting witches for eternity.
Yes, not her witch. It's referring to how she's going to be spending eternity deleting the witches of despaired mahou shoujo while absorbing them into herself.
>Because Homura's soul gem is still intact. Thus, that literally can't be her witch form.
Her soul gem in the "real" world is technically intact, but also deep into the process of breaking. Her soul gem within the barrier field breaks. It's her witch form.
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>>179199738
>Homura and Madoka's power increased at the same rate with each time loop
Bullshit. Homura's power stayed basically the same while Madoka demonstrably became more powerful. Homura needed a huge AIYO power boost to even get on Madoka's level.
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>>179200147
She beat walpurgis at the cost of her own life. Homura nor Kyubey made reference to Walpurgis' survival, only to Madoka's death. Homura's survival is an indication that Walpurgis is actually dead.
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>>179207950
To quote the post you're replying to.
>Which made Madoka a stronger magical girl and Homura a stronger witch
Please learn to read.
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>>179199919
>love is not obsession
but love can be obsessive
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>>179207119
That is silly. Homura is always fucking over anyone and anything if it suits her feelings. She interfered with Madoka in the worst way possible.
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What do you think Kyuubey tastes like?
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>>179190494
Yuuna is a cute boy
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>>179207605
This is literally the first time I've ever heard of the idea that Homura committed suicide, and frankly it's nonsense. Her falling off the chair/cliff was just a directing parallel to Madoka falling off the chair, as explained pretty well in this post >>179191885. Madoka falling off the chair wasn't suicide, it was metaphorically her self sacrifice. But she falls away from Homura. Homura falls toward where the other chair WOULD be, but the world is symbolically cut in half because of her betrayal and dethroning of Madoka, and thus she just falls through the spot where Madoka's chair should be. It's purely visual metaphor, she isn't actually standing on an actual, perfectly-sheer cliff formation.
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>>179202494
Ironically, the image you just posted proved the anon you were replying to right. A magical girl makes a wish with hope, and a witch makes curses with despair. The image suggests a direct correlation between meguca power and witch power. Kyubey has even stated multiple times throughout the series that Madoka will be the most powerful magical girl and the most terrible witch.
>>
>>179208050
Which is nonsense because the power of witches and magical girls have always scaled alongside each other.

>>179208027
The same argument fallacy can be applied to the opposite.
Homura nor Kyubey made reference to Walpurgis' defeat, only to Madoka's death.
Walpurgis has never been seen to seek out prey or anything of that sort. Kyouko describes it as a natural disaster; it just travels around whimsically, causing wanton destruction as it goes. The only time it fights back is when it is attacked, thus no reason to kill Homura.
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>>179208181
I like how after you get told you're not going to be replied to anymore you start replying to the older posts again in order to try and restart the discussion.

>the anon
Yourself.
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>>179206714
Kyubey described the barrier in Homura's gem as an unhatched chick tring to grow in its egg. Homura still became a witch in essence, but her transformation was not complete.
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>>179208181
He's saying that because they refer to that as simply despair, instead of calling it a witch, it is factually not a witch and instead something different. He can't be reasoned with.
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>>179199919
>Wrong. Love is not obsession
I reject your definition of love. Obsession can be and often is a part of love.

>Madoka broke the cycle that Homura was repeating.
She may have broken the chain of actions, but Homura was still left with the pain. Homura was left in a world where she couldn’t see Madoka, which is hardly an improvement to her.
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>>179208229
>Which is nonsense because the power of witches and magical girls have always scaled alongside each other.
Wow, it's almost like Homura and Madoka are both special cases.

Homura has more despair built up because of the time loops than normal magical girls do.
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>>179206358
Homura got the idea from Kyubey. While explaining his plan, he said if that if they could interact with the LoC (Madoka), they could change it. That's exactly what Homura did.
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>>179208370
See >>179208300
You're obnoxious as fuck.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f4clXg9n-U&t=114s
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Madoka looks weird without her gloves.
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>>179207821
>human avatar
Are you stupid? I think it's clear as day Homura isn't dead, but this claim you just made is absurd. That is the real Homura.
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>>179208300
I'm "the anon" and I've still been replying to you this entire time, you never ever said that you were going to stop replying to me. Don't start acting schizophrenic this late into the game.
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>>179208522
>you never ever said that you were going to stop replying to me
See >>179207232

>Anyway, enough is enough. You clearly are not rational and can't be reasoned with. Enjoy having the last word.
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>>179208490
Huh, yeah you're right. Shows how well-balanced her costume design is.
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What' happens if Kyuubey wishes to be a magical girl?
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>>179208069
Fucking over someone does not equal actually fucking them, and while Homu certainly is guilty of the first she hasn't ever fucked Madoka in the literal sense.
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>>179208409
Are you the retard who thinks Madoka only became a powerful witch in the earlier timelines because she killed Walpurgis?
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>>179208621
Homura takes out her sexual frustrations on Kyubey and rapes her to death.
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>>179208386
>I reject your definition of love. Obsession can be and often is a part of love.

I implore you to reconsider for your own mental health and those who care about you.

>>179208386
>She may have broken the chain of actions, but Homura was still left with the pain. Homura was left in a world where she couldn’t see Madoka, which is hardly an improvement to her.

Pain is a part of life. The ending was bittersweet and tragic but there was still hope.
>>
>>179208643
I wish I could understand what it's like to be as retarded as you are.
The question you asked is actually already answered in the thread.
Madoka automatically becomes a witch after she kills Walpurgis because hope and despair have to be balanced. She destroys Walpurgis, which is a large amount of despair, so she has to become a witch to replace it.

It is literally the natural order.
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>>179208229
Walpurgis completely levels the cities she goes to. Also, the production notes say that Walpurgis, when she's done with an area, evicerates an area in a huge explosion. Had Walpurgis survived, Homura would be dead, explosion or not.

Homura's survival is an indication of Walpurgis' defeat. It is reaching to think that a normal girl would survive all the destruction wrought by a surviving Walpurgis.
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>>179208572
Ha, I can't believe I didn't even notice that line. Oh well, you replied to me again anyways. I'd thank you for the good discussion, but...
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>>179208378
Oh, that's actually fucking retarded. Why would anyone think that.
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>>179208792
>Oh well, you replied to me again anyways
Yeah, because you kept going back and replying to post a second time to try and start the discussion again. Which I found extremely obnoxious.
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>>179208776
HAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT YOU ARE
Are you still upset at being gangbanged by Anons when you tried to make that very same point all those months ago?
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>>179208905
>gets proven wrong badly
>multiple times
>with proof and citation
>obnoxiously shitposts
>tries to pretend he's multiple people
>kills all discussion in the thread
You're such a literal cancer.
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>>179208493
>being this fucking anal

She's a goddess, but took on a form to appear human and interact directly with humans. How is that not an avatar?
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>>179208982
>"citations"
>citations that don't actually mean what he thinks they mean
multiple people have called you out on your idiocy already. it's time to stop.
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>>179208876
In case you haven't realised it yet, that wasn't me replying to the older posts. Welcome to 4chan, where users are anonymous, and multiple people are capable of disagreeing with you.
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>>179208762
>I implore you to reconsider for your own mental health and those who care about you.
Let's say a Grandmother loves talking about her grandkids. Their almost always the first subject she brings up in a conversation. She goes to every soccer game, every dance recital, sometimes even the practices. She has thousands of pictures of each of her grandkids. Now, would you really argue she isn't obsessed with her grandchildren? Would you really argue she doesn't love her grandchildren?

>Pain is a part of life. The ending was bittersweet and tragic but there was still hope.
The thing about pain is, when you see a way out you tend to take it. Homura saw and opportunity to put Madoka back into her life, so of course she jumped at the chance.
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>>179209082
Because that's not how Homura works you fucking idiot. Homura is a girl with insane magical powers, not a god who lives in the heavens with an avatar to interact with the physical world.
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>>179209098
>i pretended to be multiple people and did lots and lots of name calling so i win!
Anyway, you're clearly only in the thread to shitpost, like usual.
Enjoy your last reply, as you're clearly desperate for attention.
>>
This is retarded, thread's over goodbye everyone. Remember to never concede defeat or consider other people's interpretations/viewpoints; it is far better to have a mental breakdown, start flinging shit, and claim that everyone who replies to you is the same person. This is how you save face on the internet.
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>Retard begins posting his stupd headcanons
>Anons disagree with him
>Retard spergs and it turns out he's the schizo
>again
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>>179209120
Yup, new people just jump to agree with someone who's wrong and not even formatting posts correctly.
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>>179209247
I'm sorry >>179209247 that this >>179209247 bothers you so >>179209247 much, >>179209247 but I can't understand >>179209247 your accent.

>>179209247
Please reformat your >>179209247 post to the new >>179209247 standards.
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>>179209234
>>179209244
What a surprise, it's always you causing problems.

>start flinging shit
But you're the one doing that. You're the one who started calling people retards for holding actual discussion and then derailed the thread with meta posting.

No matter how civil people are with you, you'll always ruin a thread.
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>>179209333
Quality posting, you're showing everyone how smart you are.

>bothers
Pointing out you're doing something stupid doesn't mean it bothers anyone. Why do you always make this same faulty assumption?
>>
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>>179209234
>you guys are mean! I don't want to play anymore
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>>179209247
I’m replying from the front page to call you dumb cancer. You’ve apparently been in a long discussion in a Madoka thread so I’ve got good odds.
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>>179209366
I'm glad that my first Madoka thread in about a year has somehow ruined every Madoka thread forever for you.
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>>179208776
It's stated multiple times that a magical girl's ultimate fate is to become a witch, and it's stated that a powerful magical girl becomes a powerful witch
Madoka is a powerful magical girl who needed to defeat her most powerful enemy - her nemis. After that, all that's left for her to do is become a the most powerful witch ever. You're overthinking this, and it does not support your theories in the slightest.
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You don't see this shit in YuYuYu threads
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>>179209571
I'm fairly sure "he" shows up in yyy threads too
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>>179209536
I'm glad you think your name calling and lies over the internet hold actual weight in an argument.
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>>179209621
Why do you always meta post and ruin threads?
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>>179209146

There might be a difference between a grandmother loving her grandkids versus Homura fucking up the entire universe so Madoka and her friends can live a lie.

Homura's character arc was powerful but most importantly completed by the end of episode 12. Everything that occurred in Rebellion was a regression of her character. She gives in to the suffering, she becomes weak where she used to be strong. She fucks up everything due to her selfishness. Anyone who enjoyed Homura as a character in the series, ought to hate her in the movie. Worse yet, there is no reason for, or resolution to this change. Most of it happens 10 minutes before the end of the movie. Bad writing that regressed the entire series while trying to give motivation for another series that never came after.
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>>179209676
Spite, most likely
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I want to see yandere Madoka
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Crashing this kuso thread
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>>179209552
Madoka is the only shown case of a magical girl instantly becoming a witch after defeating another witch. She's also the only one shown to defeat Walpurgis, the largest amount of despair in the universe.
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>>179209734
See? You literally just can't stop yourself. You ARE the cancer.
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>>179209688
>There might be a difference between a grandmother loving her grandkids versus Homura fucking up the entire universe so Madoka and her friends can live a lie
How was Homura's world anymore of a lie than the world created by Madoka's wish?
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>>179209540
>my first Madoka thread in about a year
I 100% believe you. Lying on the internet isn't real.
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>>179209742
It's not a universal mechanic that Madoka becomes a witch after she defeats walpurgis, and episode 12 isn't an exception to this imaginary rule. There are actually reasons Madoka becomes a witch "instantly", like, I don't know, like corrupting her soul gem by using too much magic?

Also, she doesn't become a witch instantly in timeline 3. She lies there with Homura post-battle for a while.
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Anyone have a larger version of this?
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>>179209794
Not him, but Homura encompassed the whole universe within her witch barrier, while Madoka's universe was "standalone". Inside a witch barrier or not, it's still the real universe in both cases.
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>>179209937
I'll show you something larger *unzips dick*
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>>179209925
>like corrupting her soul gem by using too much magic
Madoka could one-shot Walpurgis around the middle of Homura's total number of time loops. And she only got stronger and stronger. If she was witching out to over using her power, she was over killing Walpurgis by a lot for no reason. Which seems like something really stupid she wouldn't do.
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>>179210022
>fresh noob magical girl fucks up misuses her power
stop the fucking presses
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>>179210022
>in the middle of her total loops
Homura had about a hundred loops and this was the 4th.
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>>179210073
>>179210077
Yup, she happens to over use her power by a very large and substantial amount, by sheer chance, 50+ times. You nailed it. Good job, anon.
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>>179210134
>50+ times
once that we've seen for sure
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>>179210111
It was the fourth shown, we don't know exactly where she was in the total amount, though. If Madoka was one-shotting Walpurgis by just the fourth, it all the more proves that she wasn't witching out to over using her powers.
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>>179209571
Sonoko is a dumb autist
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>shit OP
>scroll 300 posts down
>it's all comfy pictures
I love when this happens in a meguca thread
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>>179210206
Sonoko is a cute gay autist
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>>179210187
The loops shown in episode 10 are all clearly connected and happen one after another. The transitions between loop specifically would make no fucking sense removed from the context that they happened one after another.
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>>179210212
I've been trying to salvage the thread.
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>>179210187
Except in each timeline shown there is a reason for her witching out. It was never "she defeats walpurgis therefore becomes a witch".
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>>179210271
I believe that one and two are clearly connected, as they show Homura trying to get really serious about it. Fixing her eyes, being proactive, etc etc. But I think the later ones are suppose to show after a certain amount loops some of the later effects and how she changed over the early loops.

Irrelevant to the point either way. Point being, Madoka could one-shot Walpurgis very early on, so there's no reason to assume she drastically over used her power many, many times over.
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>>179209981
I don't see how a witch barrier or lack thereof negates the fact that in Madoka's universe magical girls are still raised like cattle for slaughter by incubators and all Madoka does with her power - instead of telling them the truth and allowing them to make their own decisions - is take them to a cushy heaven when they inevitably die in their teens and leave behind heartbroken families and friends.
>>
>>179183519
Rebellion enhanced the original series in many ways to me, I just disliked the cliffhanger since apparently Urobuchi is not continuing this shit.
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The most kino of Madoka doujins
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>>179210380
>there's no reason to assume she drastically over used her power many, many times over.
I'm not assuming that, and that's not my point. My point is there are reasons Madoka becomes a witch and not because she defeated walpurgis. That's not how becoming a witch works.
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>>179210374
See >>179208776

Let me break this down for you.
1. Homura's goal is to save Madoka.
2. Homura knows Madoka has more than enough power to beat Walpurgis by herself.
3. Homura knows that no matter what, if Madoka beats Walpurgis she will turn into a witch.

Are you really trying to say that for over 100 time lines Madoka beat Walpurgis and then for some reason witched out by sheer chance shortly after? Why exactly would Madoka fall to despair ~100 times after she defeated the big-bad enemy?
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>>179210462
Please, no doujin can ever come close to the kino that is pic related.
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>>179210479
>My point is there are reasons Madoka becomes a witch and not because she defeated walpurgis
See >>179210512

Your argument relies on the assuming of her despairing for random chance different reasons over 100 times.
As opposed to in the actual in-series explanation of "hope and despair must always balance out", which perfectly explains why Madoka turns into a witch after destroying a large amount of despair in the universe. Because the universe was course correcting itself and converting Madoka hope to despair and turning her hope into despair.
>>
>>179210512
So you're saying that if she defeats Walpurgis, she becomes a witch instantly afterwards no matter what because "the universe" forces her to?

Nothing supports that, not even the quote in that picture.
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>>179183519
The movie ending was far more satisfying than the show. Madoka sacrifices herself to the universe, Homura says fuck that and rewrites the universe. It was kino.
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>>179210665
>hope and despair must always balance out
is kyubey ever quoted in saying that?
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>>179210380
Just what exactly is pressing against Madoka's back?
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>>179210668
>the quote from the series that says it's natural for hope and despair to balance out doesn't support your claim that hope and despair balance out
Okay then.
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>>179210665
>>179210723
There is absolutely zero proof that the karmic balance of hope and despair is a real thing in the Madoka universe and not just something Sayaka uses to justify her own failures.
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>>179210723
Yeah. See the screen shot here >>179202494
Kyouko says the same thing, too.
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>>179210758
>the quote form the series explaining that Madoka's only thing left to do after defeating her worst enemy is to fulfill her destiny as a magical girl and become a witch supports the claim that hope and despair must always balance out to zero no matter what thus Madoka is forced by the universe's mechanics to become a witch
yeah nah, mate
>>
>>179190494
I wish YuYuYu had a better writer than Hackahiro.
>>
>>179210810
>Kyouko says the same thing, too.
both her and Sayaka say it to cope and ease their minds with their failures and their inevitable fate
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>>179210810
>See the screen shot here
nothing suggests in that screenshot of what you claim.
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>>179210764
Madoka wish making a massive amount despair manifest directly contradicts you. Madoka turning into a witch as soon as she defeats Walpurgis also directly contradicts you.

Madoka is more than strong enough to defeat Walpurgis all on her own. Homura knows this. Let's assume Madoka did just over use her powers and witched out one time line. Why didn't Homura just go to the next time and tell Madoka, "hey, you're super strong, here's how magical girl power works, be careful you don't over use it."
>>
>>179210914
Kyouko is a religious person and one can infer from her reactions to things that Sayaka is too. It's laughable how people treat that as proof, it's like saying that Kyouko's dad believing in God is definite proof that the Christian God exists in the Madoka universe.
>>
>>179210955
If the universe need Madoka to become a witch to balance out the universe, why did she die in the first timeline? By your theory, the world is still unbalanced.
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>>179210914
>>179210953
Save for Kyuubey says it as well, Sayaka also never says it. It's also shown happening in the series.

And I really hope you realize you just saying "nothing suggests that" doesn't actually mean it's true. Try actually supporting your claim instead of making assertions.
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>>179210764
There is literally zero proof that it isn't. >>179210914 is pure conjecture. Madoka has absolutely no other reason to witch out every single time besides the universe forcing it.
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>>179211025
Madoka was still a fairly normal in timeline one.
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>>179183519
>What was the point?
The point is that Homura is and will not be satisfied with Madoka sacrificing herself for eternity.
What is there not to understand it was her point of view throughout the whole story till the very last second she didn't want Madoka to sacrifice herself even if the costs meant death to the world.
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>>179211035
Are you actually saying that the lack of evidence for something doesn't mean something isn't true? have you ever heard about empirical evidence?
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>>179211109
No, I'm saying that you saying something isn't evidence doesn't mean it actually isn't evidence.
Believe it or not, your say so isn't actually objective law in the universe. Try explaining why you think it's not evidence.
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>>179211080
So? Madoka becoming a witch would've furthered that goal, even by a little bit. Are you saying "the universe" would wait until the perfect candidate? That sort of flies in the face of your "immediate" theory.
>>
>>179211151
See >>179210869 >>179209552
I fucking have. Multiple times. You're just not listening to me.
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>>179211207
Yeah, and as you can clearly see, what you said in those posts was replied to and proven wrong, then you just keep saying evidence isn't actually evidence.
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>>179211214
Made for carrying Homu's babies
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>>179211167
>So? Madoka becoming a witch would've furthered that goal
What do you mean? Not only wasn't Walpurgis destroyed that time line, the fact that everything was stable proves that hope and despair are currently balanced in that universe.
I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you assuming that the first time was someone not balanced with hope and despair for some reason?
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>>179211275
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>Madoka needs to become a witch to replace Walpurgis' despair
Stupid, stupid theory.

Walpurgis was once a magical girl (likely multiple magical girls), who brought hope with her wish. Then she became a witch, bringing equal amount of despair proportional to their power. It balanced out to zero.
Madoka became a magical girl, bringing hope with her wish. Then she became a witch, bringing and equal amount of despair. It balanced out to zero.

To say Madoka needed to become a witch to balance out the despair "vaccuum" walpurgis left is stupid. If that were true, you've brought in MORE DESPAIR, making it UNBALANCED. Anyone who believes that Madoka needed to become a witch because she defeated Walpurgis is absolutely delusional.
>>
Have you silly fuckers stopped to think that maybe Madoka turned into a witch after defeating Walpurgisnacht not because of some grand cosmic balance but because she was in pain, crippled and her home town, family and friends had just been destroyed?
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>>179211214
I will make her a mommy and I will be a loving husband to her.
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>>179211507
No. My headcanon is fact. The universe is sentient and makes the story happen.
>>
I like how homura fags talk about how selfless and how pure homura's love is but they will flip the fuck out at the idea of Madoka dating a boy in the new timeline.
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>>179211480
>To say Madoka needed to become a witch to balance out the despair "vaccuum" walpurgis left is stupid. If that were true, you've brought in MORE DESPAIR, making it UNBALANCED
This makes quite literally no sense at all. Like, the statement doesn't even follow in English coherently.

Madoka destroys Walpurgis.
Walpurgis is a mass of despair.
That despair needs to be replaced.
Madoka's hope gets converted to despair to replace it.
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>>179211622
I'm a homura fag, do people actually do this or are you projecting?
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>>179211594
>head canon
Odd way to say "something stated and shown in the series multiple times".
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>>179211416
Have you ever needed something your whole life and never realized it well I do now.
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>>179211643
Holy shit are you actually fucking mentally defective?
Where did Walpurgis and her despair come from? Hint: Witch is meguca. Meguca is hope. Witch is despair. I don't think anyone can explain this more simply to you.
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>>179211643
Nope.
Walpurgis, as a meguca, brought hope. Then she became a witch, bringing despair, balancing the hope/despair scale back to zero.
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>>179211643
The reason your math doesn't add up is because you're forgetting the part where Walpurgis despair is there to balance out the hope it created in the first place.

>>179211667
I've argued with a few before, even so far as to say that Homura would stray up intervened if Madoka would do so.
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>>179211696
https://nhentai.net/g/130775/
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>>179183519
>Someone please convince me that Rebellion didn't just completely ruin everything in the original series story.
There was nothing to ruin.
>>
Madoka threads always bring up top notch autism and headcanon. It's amazing.
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>>179211784
Well that's really gay and I don't condone it.
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>>179211507
Your statement would only be true if Madoka only contracted late game was never a magical girl before Walpurgis showed up. Which we know isn't true.

Madoka was a magical girl and had the power to one-shot Walpurgis multiple times over before it even showed up in the town. She wouldn't have let it destroy her home town and people she cared about.

See, it really all boils down to this. Homura knows how strong Madoka is, Homura can also explain to Madoka to not over use her powers as it will cause her to witch out. If Madoka DOESN'T inherently become a witch after beating Walpurgis, then there's zero reason Homura doesn't just have Madoka contract and be careful of overusing her power. Seeing as how that doesn't happen, Kyuubey's statement of "it's natural for Madoka to become a witch" holds true.
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>>179211865
i'm going back to /vg/
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>>179211823
>these tags

thank you, anon. You're a martyr.
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>>179211879
Absolutely nothing you said in that post made any sense or disproved what the anon you are replying to argued.
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>>179211865
Madoka is the most autistic fandom on /a/ and has been for over half a decade.
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>>179211784
>>179211774
Okay, here's the problem with your point.
It assumes the hope and despair are existing in equal amounts at different times, which literally contradicts itself.

So Walpurgis brought hope at one point in its life. How does that change the fact it is CURRENTLY despair.
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>>179211480
Fucking this. How that Anon missed this is beyond me.
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>>179183519
Like always blame the fanbase.
Did you have fan with all you HOMU HOMU memes ? Then pay the price now, it's no longer about friendship but homolust.
Enjoy.
>>
>>179212042

Forgive us Madoka, for we have sinned.
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>>179211622
Her love is pure and selfless, hence she won't pursue a relationship with her in the new universe, but Madoka still belongs to her and seeing Homura cucked by some random boy would be infuriating. I'd honestly rather have Homura rape Madoka than have her go out with a boy.
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>>179211968
>nuuuuuh uuuuuuh!!!!!
Awesome reply. Amazing wit.
I'm glad you are so smart.

Maybe now you can actually explain why you think it makes no sense.

>the anon
Hah. Japanese girls talking in third person is cute. You doing it isn't.
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>>179212013
Okay, so what you're saying is that Walpurgis brought more despair than hope? And you're saying that the universe needs MORE DESPAIR?

That doesn't at all work out.
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>>179212042
So this is now a period of despair to balance out the period of hope and happiness we once had?
I see... Madoka really was meta after all.
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>>179212013
Because if your original point wasn't just headcanon (which it is), then the entire point of a magical girl becoming a witch is to balance the exact amount of hope she brought to the world with an equal amount of despair. Therefore once the witch is stopped, there's a perfect balance and the cycle for that particular magical girl is complete. Madoka's cycle of hope and despair has absolutely nothing to do with Walpurgis
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>>179212091
>s-samefag
I'll put it in different words so you don't get so offended. Please explain your point differently so I may understand it.
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>>179212022
This still isn't reddit, you can't upvote your own post by replying to them with "this".
What you said in that post makes literally no sense and it is explained to you why in the reply to it.
The "vacuum brings more despair" quite literally makes no sense at all.
I don't think you understand that the point here is that it CONVERTS Madoka's hope to despair, it doesn't vacuum in despair that was already there, or something, whatever you are trying to say.
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>>179212174
>posting images you think will spite and harass people
Hm, wonder who could be behind this post and why it's so impossible to reason with them.

It's simple. If Madoka doesn't naturally become a witch to balance out the universe after she defeats Walpurgis, why doesn't Homura just have Madoka, who is extremely powerful, just contract and kill Walpurgis.
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>>179183519
For me it was similar feelings with Utena and Adolescence Mokushiroku - beautiful and unironically deep TV series and just insane movie, which loses all original strong parts, except for music and visual.
>>
Rebellion is unironically my favorite part of Madoka, and I'm not even a Homura fag.
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>>179212182
Are you saying the natural state of the universe is to perpetually be in a state of despair?
>>
Why the hell is Nagisa even on the movie, anyway.
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>>179212264
Because Madoka inevitably will either die as a magical girl or die as a witch. That is tha nature of being a magical girl, something Homura doesn't want Madoka to experience.
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>>179212322
because she's cool
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>>179212140
You sure do like spamming the word "headcanon" as if it actually makes you correct or something.

>the exact amount of hope she brought to the world
You do realize that "hope" in this case is almost like a numerical value. And it's the power the magical girl posses in her current form. It's not the actions she takes that "bring hope" to people. "hope" and "karmic destiny" are the same thing, and they're the power a magical girl has.
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>>179212182
If you're not saying Madoka needs to become a witch to replace Walpurgis because of despair, then what the fuck are you saying?
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>>179187293
I don't get it. How does this relate
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>>179212389
Now you're just blatantly saying insane and nonsensical shit.
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>>179212284
No. Nothing in my post even came close to implying that. What are you talking about?
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>>179212389
What's your point?
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>>179212392
Why is your reading comprehension always so fucking bad that you can never understand anything?

That is what I'm saying, and nothing in the post you're replying to suggested otherwise.
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>>179212429
>Madoka destroys Walpurgis.
>Walpurgis is a mass of despair.
>That despair needs to be replaced.
>Madoka's hope gets converted to despair to replace it.
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>>179212436
>>179212428
>What's your point?
That you need to stop replying to posts twice.
And that you need to stop thinking that name calling and insulting people is an actual argument.
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>>179212042
>the fanbase became a witch
What's her name and nature.
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>>179212418
Homura did something wrong in order to help Madoka (forcefully separating her from the LoC to take her out of an existence of self-destruction), just like Madoka did something wrong to try and help Sayaka (forcefully taking Sayaka's soul gem away to take her out of an existence of self-destruction).
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>>179212508
Yes, that is what I said. And nothing about that suggests that the universe is always in despair.

When Walpurgis and Madoka aree both active despair and hope are equal.
When Madoka destroys Walpurgis there is now a despair deficit.
Madoka's hope needs to be converted to despair to correct that deficit.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?
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Why do you like Tomoe Mami?
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>>179212518
Glad I finally have proof that you're fucking mentally ill so I don't have to reply to you anymore.
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Alright I'm crashing this thread
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>>179212013
Its explained when Sayaka turns into a witch. That she will torment (cause despair) people as much as she helped them (bring hope) to balance out "her cycle". This balance is an internal process for each magical girl and has nothing to do with the others.

I think you're misunderstanding the Hope and despair balance issue with a time paradox or something similar. its not some universal constant that rewrites the universe "to keep balance". its a mechanism that the Incubators are using to cultivate energy and preserve the law of entropy or whatever those furfags where up to.

Mami is also a great example, she never turned into a witch but the world doesn't go out of wack because of it. Simply her cycle(energy cultivation) ended prematurely.

Heres an analogy; pretend the magical girls where chickens and Kyubey a farmer;

Mami = 6 eggs
Homu = 0 eggs ??
Sayaka = 12 eggs
Madoka = 100,000 eggs
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>>179212614
Let's be real. You haven't been actually replying to anything said. You can hardly understand what you read. All you've been doing is name calling and insulting people.
I'm glad you continue to give proof of who you are, as there's only one person who posts those screen shots.
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>>179212585
their feet must stink
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>>179212613
I like how cute she looks when shes sad, she makes me want to protect her but secretly bully her at the same time.
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>>179212663
Again, it's just so obvious who you are.
You literally can't take actual discussion because you can't understand anything you read.
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>>179183519
lol
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>>179212669
Except that doesn't make sense, because there's no way of actually knowing when a witch will be taken out. It can cause and indefinite amount of despair so long as no one kills it. By your logic a witch will just "burn out" after it's caused a certain amount of despair to people, which we know is not true.

Again, we literally see this law in action when Madoka makes her wish and she causes a huge amount of despair to be manifested.
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>>179212756
Please, stop breaking the rules by posting off topic and low quality images. Also stop breaking global rule three.
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>>179212585
If we go with your "universal balance" theory:
>walpurgis-chan becomes meguca and brings hope with her wish
>walpurgis-chan becomes witch and brings despair with her curse, balancing the scale back to zero
>Madoka makes a wish, bringing lots of hope and unbalances the universe
>Madoka kills Walpurgis, which doesn't matter because Walpurgis already brought as much despair as she did hope
>Madoka becomes a witch, bringing lots of despair with her curse, balancing the universe

Madoka's witchification is purely internal - meaning that it has nothing to do with other girls' witchification. Even in your theory, Madoka doesn't need to become a witch because Walpurgis is gone because Walpurgis already balanced herself out.
>>
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>>179212883
> By your logic a witch will just "burn out" after it's caused a certain amount of despair to people, which we know is not true.
Is that not a logical conclusion of your own theory, which a witch must balance out the hope she brought/the universe has? In your theory, once a witch has balanced out the scale to zero, and if she continues to exist, the scale will go to despair, or go dormant (whichever you headcanon you prefer).
>>
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>>179212932
See >>179212883
Your theory is dependent on the actions the magical girl or witch does to "bring" despair or hope. Which isn't how it works.
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>>179213030
How does it work, then, if not for their wishes/curses or actions?
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>actually continuing to argue with the schizo after he's proved time and time again that he's retarded
I admire your determination
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Why do you nerds think this anime is 2deep4u? It's not.
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>>179213002
>Is that not a logical conclusion of your own theory
Uh, no?

Okay, let me try to explain this a different way.

Pretend we're talking about DBZ for a step here.
"Hope" and "despair" are the the magical girls and witches power levels.

Where it's different from DBZ is that the grand total amount of hope and despair in the universe much be equal across all humans, witches and magical girls.

Every human, magical girls and witch have some "power level" of hope/despair. And the collective whole of everyone's power level must remain balanced for the universe to be in order.
>>
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>>179213135
I genuinely laugh at how you think your name calling and insult people will make anyone at all listen to you.
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>>179213102
See >>179213146
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>>179213178
yet you're listening to me and acknowledging me right now. I'll admit, your being well-mannered, but you're still as retarded as ever and fail to grasp what people are telling you.
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>>179213225
"reading what you are typing" doesn't mean "listening" (accepting what you are saying as correct) to you.

Literally all your "arguments" ever amount to are you saying something and trying to assert it as fact without ever explaining anything. You listing assertions with no reasons is not how discussion works.

Quite literally pants on retarded.
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>>179213146
That doesn't make any sense, but I'll roll with it.
What happens if the power levels don't balance out and the universe is out of order?
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>>179213294
Must suck that you have to throw spiteful fits and attack people because you're upset you can't prove anything you say is right.
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>>179183676
>>179187222
So movie #4 is pretty much never ever happening at this point and we're just stuck with gachashit adaptations instead?
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>>179213296
>Literally all your "arguments" ever amount to are you saying something and trying to assert it as fact without ever explaining anything
Oh good gracious that's ironic coming from you.
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>>179213316
How does it not make sense? Literally for most of the anime it was Kyuubey power level wanking what a strong magical girl Madoka would make. He does that because her hope "power level" is so high.

>What happens if the power levels don't balance out and the universe is out of order?
The universe doesn't let it happen. That's kind of what the whole argument has been about here. That the universe course corrects any imbalance. e.g. Madoka turning into a witch.
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>>179213353
See? You literally can't stop yourself.
Instead of showing and explaining how my arguments are nothing but me trying to say assertions are facts, you just instead insult the person and not actually address what they say.

That's probably because you know I am explaining my stance and giving reasons for everything I say.
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>>179213456
Fake news. Clearly a malware ad. Don't click it.
>>
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>>179213400
What you suggested in that post is that your "hope" powerlevel and your "despair" powerlevel are not equal, and that one can have more hope than despair or vice versa. If the universe is unbalanced, that means a person has a power level of one too high, right? The logical conclusion to your theory is that the universe arbitrarily increases the powerlevel of another person to balance things out, right?
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>>179213456
>there are people who actually believe this.
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>>179213135
the fact that he's a yurifag too is quite telling
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>>179213456
If only
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Today I must remind them.
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What a twist
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>>179213570
>The logical conclusion to your theory is that the universe arbitrarily increases the powerlevel of another person to balance things out, right?

>arbitrarily
It's not arbitrarily, though. It does it for the sole purpose of maintaining balances between hope and despair. It, the universe, won't arbitrarily make more despair is there's already an equal amount of hope.
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>>179213456
Too bad for Madoka that Homu still fucks her every night, with or without her liking.
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>>179213731
Please read the global rules and stop posting rule breaking images, you have been asked politely multiple times already.
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>>179213761
>universal balance

Lmao, talk about making shit up.
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>>179213606
Why are you replying to your own post?
Why are you pretending your boogieman is real?
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>>179213824
Saying "lmao" doesn't change your posting style.
Also, we see the universe balancing itself out first hand multiple times in the Madoka series. Most notably when Madoka makes her wish to erase witches, and Kyuubey directly states Madoka hope brought fourth and equal amount of despair.
>>
>>179213641
>Madoka becomes a goddess
>Gets all her memories back, including ones of Homura
>In the clearest state of mind she's been in a while
>Homura, a smoking hot chick, is completely nude in front of her
>This girl that dearly loves her and suffered countless times for Madoka's sake
>And this girl is in need of some comforting
>Madoka's also saying goodbye to her; they won't be see eachother for a very long time (or ever)
>So Madoka states her feelings for Homura:
>"You were my best friend!"
Only someone who is uwaveringly straight can do something like this.
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>>179213937
Whoops. Didn't mean to post that image.
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>>179213895
>multiple times

Nope. Both walpurgis and Madoka die in the first loop too. No universe balance shit happens whatsoever.
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>>179213931
You clearly haven't read the yuri to English dictionary.
"best friend" translates to "romantic life partner".
>>
>>179213937
Noice.
>>179213973
Anon pls.
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>>179213978
You are just repeating yourself now. Also, again, Walpurgis didn't die the first time line. And Madoka was not special in the first time line.
>>
>>179183519
Without Rebellion MSMM is just a rehash of Lain but with more anime cliches.
>>
>>179213761
>It's not arbitrarily, though
Yes, it is. You say people have certain intrinsic powerlevels, which I assume you think that are natural to them, and the universe adjusts them for the sake of "balance". You say it's "just how things are" in the megucaverse (without evidence, you're actually just making all this shit up), and you don't realize the absurdity of your claims.

Also, you claim that Madoka needs to become a witch to balance things out, but she wouldn't need to if her despair is intrinsic to her and the universe. Also, both Madoka and Walpurgis die in the first timeline, which doesn't balance things out at all. Your own theory doesn't hold up to itself.
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>>179214067
>Walpurgis didn't die the first time line

Oh, so it just left on its own? lmao, you are one retarded fuck.

>Madoka wasn't special

So what replaced Walpurgis despair? Where is the universal balance shit at work?
>>
>homura keep looping for another 9 millions loops
>madoka now has the karmic nonsense to destroy the multi-multi-verse
>>
>>179214024
I haven't seen those other shows, but Madoka's feelings for Homura are in no way ever stated nor implied to be romantic love. As far as we know, it's just close friendship. Homura, on the other hand, is different. She actually loves Madoka; this was implied in the anime and outright stated in Rebellion, something we can't say for Madoka.
>>
>>179214181
She has enough power level to go DBZ apparently, lmao
>>
>>179214098
>without evidence
Oh, it's still you. The person who thinks that just because you say it's not evidence means there actually isn't any but won't say why it's not evidence. You also seem to confuse proof and evidence very often.

>Also, both Madoka and Walpurgis die in the first timeline
>>179213978
Why do you keep repeating things you were already proven wrong about?
>>
>Whole thread is taken up by an argument with some yurifag's delusional headcanon
I'd say it's a failure but at least ACK didn't go full sperg this time.
>>
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>>179213805
>guy posts Madohomu incessantly
>no big deal
>someone posts Homumami
>somehow it's against the rules
Come the fuck on, Anon. Shipping is shipping.
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>>179214223
>>179214147
>lmao
You should stop begging people to think you're someone else.

>Oh, so it just left on its own?
No, it left when it done destroying things. Like it always does. Like it was literally stated it does.

>So what replaced Walpurgis despair?
Nothing, because it wasn't dead.
>>
>>179214280
You need to stop constantly thinking about your boogieman that is purely a figment of your imagination. It's seriously not healthy.
>>
>>179214280
That's him.
>>
>>179214270
You need evidence to prove something. You don't have evidence.
>>
>>179214270
>Y-You have been proven wrong!

Lmao, way to dodge the question, moron. Your stupid shit doesn't make any sense. Where the balance to mami and Kyouko dying without witching out? Why if Madoka wasn't special in the first loop she was in the 2nd one?

>>179214327
>it was stated that it leaves

Literal head canon.

>nothing

So what was balancing Walpurgis despair if Madoka wasn't special?

You keep drowning on your own dumb shit, it's hilarious.
>>
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>>179214324
HomuMado actually is canon and is based on things that happen in the series. HomuMami is not.
>>179214369
Don't reply to your own post just to try and make it look like two people the the figment of your imagination is real.
>>
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>>179214369
ACK's new tactic is to be somewhat calm but still unbelievably dense and imagedump his favorite ship? I'd say that's an improvement, but I also hate shipping shit.
>>
>>179214410
>s-samefag

Bwahaha
>>
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>>179214372
You need to explain why you think evidence presented doesn't actually count as evidence. You saying "it's not evidence" doesn't actually mean it isn't.
>>
>>179214410
>HomuMado actually is canon and is based on things that happen in the series
There is nothing in the show that suggests it's canon. They are not a couple, and Homura's feelings of romantic love are definitively one-sided. Perhaps your definition of canon is fundamentally different than mine, but I percieve canon to be "this happened". Madohomu hasn't happened and isn't happening.
>>
>>179213931
That's because Madoka thinks it's fun to tease Homura until she can't take it anymore and snaps. Rebellion was just Homura's way of snapping.
>>
>>179214424
Yeah, at least it's a "discussion" and not a fucking full-time job for the janitors
>>
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>>179214424
>>179214445
Dude, stop already. Why do you think it's just your given right to off topic meta post and break the rules.
>>
So Madoka was Danganronpa all along?
>>179214449
So you have absolutely nothing but your shit headcanon and deflecting.
>>
>>179214449
you have not provided actual evidence for me to disprove. Unless you're talking about that screenshot, which I have already disproven. You just plug your ears and say "nuh-uh i'm right!"
>>
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>>179213731
Homura belongs to Sayaka.
>>
>>179214500
And your shitty image spam is not off topic? Kill yourself, retard.
>>
>>179214490
Madoka is a very abusive friend. Homura deserves a better friend, Kuro, someone who will actually be her lover (unlike Madoka).
>>
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>>179214497
>>179214549
No one thinks your boogieman is real.
It's actually asinine what an asshole you are.
>>
>>179214549
>she saves her soul gem and touches it
>she saves her and let's her continue with the movie

Made for each other.
>>
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What a strange approach.
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>>179214394
>Lmao
Again, this doesn't change your "posting style".
It's still obviously you.
There's no point in even addressing anything you say as you're not interested in actual discussion.
>>
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>>179214614
So, you're mad people are having actual discussion, you're mad you got proven wrong, so now you're just trying to harass people as much ass you can. Nice.
>>
>>179214623
>I'm not gonna reply to anything you said lalala

Stay delusional spouting your retarded headcanon, you sad fuck.
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>>179212883
First, I want to suggest you to take a step back from your own theory and consider the possibility that you might have misunderstood part of the plot. I feel like you're so gung-ho about proving your theory right that you're reading our replies with too much bias.

Anyways, remember how I said that the balance cycle is an internal process for each magical girl? Well some bitch (writing this from Kyubey's perspective) found a loop hole and got involved directly with the cycle of every other magical girl. Essentially what happens is that Madoka taps into each and every one of these cycles that has ever happened and will happen and takes all the despair for herself. Because Madoka whisk away the despair just before it reaches critical mass the magical girl passes away peacefully instead of becoming a witch and her cycle ends there. Madoka then takes this despair and slays it due to the loop hole of her wish. Shes not completing some universal balance cycle shes just dealing with the accumulated despair of each magical girl. We know this because the Godoka timeline has a much less efficient way of gathering energy than than pre Godoka timeline as stated by Kyubey himself.

And yes we don't know the exact process on how each Witch balances out the hope their magical girl counterpart did but its canon, the anime goes out of its way to state this as a fact in the universe. That being said like in Mami's case there isn't some Universal/godly force that dictates IT MUST BE SO. Its just how the mechanisms of the energy cultivation via magical girl works.
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Imagine being so fucking dense that you haven't realize you lost the fucking argument, so you continue on making fuckg DBZ analogies and claiming nobody has disproven your "evidence" (or lack thereof).
>>
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>>179214536
>>179214527
Do you notice how all your posts have this inherent statement of "if I say there's no evidence that means there's no evidence". It's like you actually think your word is absolute low in the universe. It's literally not possible to reason with someone like this.
>>
>>179214728
Please provide your evidence.
>>
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>>179214726
Imagine being so mad and upset that you lost the argument that you have to resort to trying to attack people and spite them.
>>
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>>179214571
I'm posting things that actually are based on the series, you're yelling about some figment of your imagination.

>>179214672
Why? Even if evidence is posted you'll claim it's not evidence and never explain why you think it's not evidence.
>>
>>179214762
see >>179214761
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>>179214761
See? You're so far gone you can't even read what you're replying to.
>evidence is given
>you say it's not evidence
>people ask you to explain why it's not evidence
>you continue to scream it's not evidence
>>
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>>179214831
See >>179214867
>>
>>179214816
>if i post evidence, you'll just say it's wrong
>which is why i'm not going to provide evidence
Sounds like a copout because you don't have evidence.
Even if there was evidence, and it was good, I'd concede. But the fact is, there isn't. The picture you posted about Madoka being a terrible witch is not evidence for your theory in the slightest, and I've explained why already in my previous posts if you just scroll up.
>>
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>>179214923
Here's how it goes with you every single time.
>evidence is given
>you say it's not evidence
>people ask you to explain why it's not evidence
>you continue to scream it's not evidence
>>
Who fucking cares about that worthless waste of space Madoka?
>>
>>179215004
i do
>>
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>>179214675
See, here's the problem with your "internal process theory".

That in every single timeline where Madoka kills Walpurgis she becomes a witch basically on the spot.

There is literally no other possible explanation for this event happening other than the universe course correcting the despair deficit.
>>
>>179214581
Kuro is merely a beta-orbiter, Homura belongs to the chad Madoka
>>
>>179214955
now you're just repeating yourself because you don't have an argument anymore, like you've been doing for the past couple hours.
>>
>>179215004
I don't know man, I think that space Madoka was pretty efficiently spent.
>>
>>179214816
>doesn't answer any questions about his theory
>t-the evidence is there
>>179215056
>the only explanation is that the universe did it

Maybe if you have autism.
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>>179215059
You're just repeating "gib ebidence!!!!" over and over. What exactly do you expect people to say?
>>
>>179214581
Kuro is kill.
>>
It's been 5 years, I have to stop caring to not lose my fucking sanity.

Instead of Gachashit Magica they should write a story about a qt Roman Magical Girl helping Octavian defeat the 18 year old veteran hag Magical Girl Cleopatra.
>>
>>179215121
You don't have evidence, do you?
>>
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>>179215101
Again, it's literally not possible to reason with you.
At least two dozen times this thread alone you have been asked to explain WHY you think something is not evidence. Yes, believe it or not, is it possible to explain WHY something is not evidence. And every single time you've been asked, all you do is repeat "gib ebidence!!!!"

So, what exactly do you think people are going to do? Keep fabricating more and more evidence out of thin air until it's finally something to make you accept you're wrong?
>>
>>179215177
I unironically want this
>>
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>>179215211
Evidence has been given countless times.
You claim it's not evidence, and when you're asked to explain why you think it's not evidence you refuse to do so.
>>
Why do people even stick to the idea that hope and despair are forces that need to be balanced? It was just some chuuni shit Kyouko (IIRC) said, she's not in any position of authority. Characters are wrong about this kind of stuff in practically every episode. Do you also believe Kyubey can't lie because he said it that one time?
>>
>>179215250
Please point me to your posts with evidence from the show. I'm begging you.
>>
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>>179215264
>It was just some chuuni shit Kyouko (IIRC) said, she's not in any position of authority.
Because it was stated directly by Kyuubey, and shown happening first hand multiple times in the series.
>>
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>this thread
>>
>>179215319
It's actually above average, believe it or not
>>
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>>179215302
All those posts with screen shots from the series itself.
All the posts with long detailed explanations citing events from the series itself.
>>
>>179215264
This, Sayaka helped one fuckwad. Octavia would have killed thousands if left alone.

Unless you count all the people who liked violinfag music as equal to people literally dying.
>>
>>179215264
QB doesn't lie, but he stretches the truth and avoids telling it unless he needs to. He also often explains things in a very abstract "poetic" way, so you usually have to cut away the fluff to see his point.
>>
>>179215215
>still can't answer and just deflects after being BTFO over his dumb balance shit over and over
>muh evidence is there

This is the most sad denial I have seen.
>>
>>179215353
Those screenshots that have been already disproven and discarded? C'mon, ACK, I though you had an ace up your sleeve.
>>
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>>179215355
>This
Still not reddit, you can't upvote posts here.
That post is clearly wrong, as it tries to assert the only one who said there was balance is Kyouko, when everyone knows it was Kyuubey who said it, and it was actually shown.
>>
>>179215362
He lies, we've been over this. Most of the time he doesn't, but he does when it counts.
>>
>>179215264
It's some guy spouting his stupid headcanon shit after being proven wrong over and over multiple times already. Universal will shit is completely retarded.
>>
>>179215362
He does lie. He said he doesn't understand deception and then in the very next scene directly deceives Kyouko, and then if it wasn't obvious enough he tells Homura he was deceiving her.
>>179215309
Well if Kyubey is the one who said it I guess that lends at least a little credence. I don't think it was demonstrated in the series but unless there's some way to quantify hope and despair you can't prove it either way so whatever.
>>
>>179215355
This "universal balance" garbage doesn't hold up even to the show itself.
>>
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>>179215413
>>179215411
>so delusional he thinks his boogieman is real
>literally won't actually answer anything said to him
>tries to claim other people are in denial
There really is no winning with you. No matter what anyone does, you always default to screaming about figments of your imagination.
>>
>>179215468
>I don't think it was demonstrated in the series
Watch the last episode. It's literally shown happening first hand and Kyuubey explains it as it's happening.

>>179215467
>headcanon
There you go using that word again. As if it's some kind of "i win" button.
>>
>>179215458
When has he ever told the girls a falsehood? He technically never lies, just omitts the truth. If you count that as lying, that's fine. Pic related is what he does.
>>
>>179215481
>still deflecting
>still can't prove his universal balance shit

Stay on denial, faggot.
>>
>>179215480
>if i call something garbage that means it's wrong
>let's ignore all the multiple things that prove me wrong
Just curious, about what you said here >>179215101
Can you please explain to me how Madoka "just happened" to witch out over 100 times after she defeated the worst possible enemy and everyone was safe. What are these other reasons.
>>
>>179215353
>citing
you've never actually cited a scene, just claimed such a scene existed. Words mean things.
>>
>>179215529
He tells Madoka a falsehood when he talks about the human race joining everyone else in the universe one day, all the while he's perfectly aware that's not going to happen because Madoka's witch will wipe out the entire species within weeks.
>>
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>>179215592
If what I'm doing is deflecting, what is it that you are doing by insanely screaming that everyone is this mythical figment of your imagination?
>>
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I never knew Madohomufags were this delusional.
>>
>>179215649
Is just the autistic faggot shitting up the thread once again with his stupid shit.
>>
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>>179215608
Why do you always reply to posts two times?
Wouldn't replying once be enough?

And yes, actual scenes were cited many times. But as usual, like how you claim evidence isn't evidence, you pretend it didn't happen.
>>
>>179215638
I think he was implying in that scene that he thinkgs that Humanity won't reach the stars until heat death without the help of the Incubators.
QB demonstrates in that scene that he thinks of humans as extremely lowly creatures.
>>
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>>179215649
>>179215687
Oh look, you're trying to downvote posts against.
Sure is strange how you don't have a problem with the guy who literally screams "it's not evidence because I say so". Hm, why isn't it delusional to think "if I say it's not evidence that means it's not"? Seems pretty mental.
>>
>>179215701
You never once cited something. You've never referred to what episode or when in the episode the scene you were referring to happens, and 99% of the time you didn't post a screenshot.
>>
>>179215529
I already told you man. he very directly lies when he says he doesn't understand deception. That scene you posted is itself pure deception even if it isn't outright falsehood.
>>
This is still almost as bad as ACK usually is, but now he's just posting Madohomu pictures, and he's not mentioning his arch nemisis.
>>
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>>179215780
Just from within the last few posts of mine alone, >>179215525
I cited the final episode where Kyuubey explains universe balance and it's shown.
There have been many other posts like that with even more detail through out the thread.
>>
>>179215826
I agree it is still deception. My understanding of Kyubey's understanding is that he understands deception, but he doesn't understand why humans think it's bad. He thinks it's the fault of the victim that they were tricked; that they were too stupid.
>>
>>179215857
give me the direct quote
>>
>>179215857
>Still hanging on one line of dialogue to make up an entire theory over shit in the show

Pure autism
>>
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>>179215832
Do you think if you just spam that name enough that other people will think it's real?
Even now all you're doing is making yourself look bad.
People have normal discussion, and like usual, you can't stand it and start spam meta posting.
You did it in Sirius the Jaeger threads, too.
>>
>>179215720
This is what he says. It's clearly a false statement.

He also contradicts himself when he says that his species doesn't have emotions, because elsewhere in the show there are times when he claims to be feeling an emotion.
>>
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>>179215920
>>179215921
They really should block phone posting already.
And the direct quote with screen shots has already been posted in the thread.

And it's not a single line. It's something that was shown happening multiple times.
>>
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Pussy magnet
>>
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>>179215950
Uh... I mean this.
>>
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>>179215921
>>179215920
By the way, please answer this >>179215603

I want to know what your reasons are for thinking Madoka just randomly witched out over 100 times after beating the worst possible enemy and saving everyone.
>>
>>179215974
>shown multiple times
>can only bring up a single line of dialogue

Mentally ill.

>>179216026
>randomly
>fighting walpurgis and taking battle damage is random

Pure retardation from you. Amazing.
>>
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>>179216095
Why are you so intent on being blatantly dishonest?
We are shown that Madoka is able to one-shot Walpurgis very early on. She's not taking battle damage or over using her powers. This was already addressed.
>>
>>179216157
>We are shown that Madoka is able to one-shot Walpurgis very early on. She's not taking battle damage or over using her powers. This was already addressed.

Nope. She is on the floor all fucked up.

You are one sad fuck on full denial.
>>
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Homu was a little bit too rough when she made non-consensual love to Madoka.
>>
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>>179216157
>no damage

lmao
>>
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>>179214614
The true story
>>
>>179216312
>>179216213
>lmao
Why do you keep trying to look like two people by typing "lmao"? It's really obvious you are intentionally trying to "change your posting style.

Anyway, I have the scene pulled up exactly where she one shots Walpurgis.
Would you citation (direct time stamps and episode number), or would you like a screen shot. What will suit your autism best.
>>
>>179215603
For whatever reason they provide. Whether being sad for whatever reason or corrupting her gem by using to much magic. She also doesn't witch out ever timeline, which completely kills your theory.
>>
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>>179216365
>gets told to stop posting off topic images
>won't even reply, but keeps posting rule breaking images
>does it out of pure spite
What a sad life you lead.
>>
>>179216413
>one-shots walpurgis literally only one timeline
>somehow you extrapolate it to 50+ just so your false narrative seem more viable
>>
>>179216423
No reason to be sad when she just saved everyone.
She could one-shot Walpurgis by timeline 4ish, so she has no reason to over use her power.

And she does witch out every single time she kills Walpurgis, which is why Homura doesn't want her to ever fight it.
>>
>>179216413
>very early on
>b-but that one doesn't count!

Autism. keep swimming on your made up shit.
>>
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>>179216468
>Madoka can one shot it because she's so powerful
>it's a plot point that Madoka gets more powerful with each time
>somehow in your world this means she gets weaker and is no longer able to one shot Walpurgis
Again, it's clear to everyone at this point you're being dishonest on purpose.
>>
>>179216554
>clear to everyone

Yeah, it's clear to everyone you have a mental deficiency.
>>
>>179216524
What are you even trying to say doesn't count? And why do you keep replying to posts multiple times. Just stop already and have an honest conversation.
>>
>>179216554
>madoka becoming more powerful means she will always use all of her power and instantly fully corrupt her gem every time from then on
you're actually retarded if you believe this leap in logic
>>
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>>179216594
Notice how you didn't address that your assertion that Madoka somehow got weaker in later timelines makes no sense.

I'm honestly not sure why you're doing this. I can only assume it's that you want the last word really, really badly.
>>
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>>179183519
>>
>>179211480
the discussion should've ended here.
>>
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>>179216637
I honestly do kind of feel bad for you. You genuinely are about is retarded as possible while still being able to function.

Madoka one-shots Walpurgis in timeline 4(ish), that's her full power. By timeline 100 she is able to one shot it without even using a faction of her full power, and thus would not witch out.
>>
>>179216639
You're just repeating the same shit over and over and insulting people while doing it, yet it's a terrible thing when people insult you too? Do you have no self-awareness?
>>
>>179216598
>still can't address any points or answer the questions over his own dumb shit theory
>Madoka gets stronger but she witshes out becaue muh balance

You are so fucking stupid that you contradict yourself.
>>
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>>179216664
That's the second time you've tried to "upvote" your own post, and again, what you are saying in that post makes zero (0) sense. You're the only person who came up with "despair vacuum" out of what other people said.
>>
>>179216694
And?
>>
>>179183962
Same here
Hated it furiously after the first watch, but then I saw it again and then once more, and now I probably watch this film ten times a year because I love it so much
>>
>>179216213
I got the impression that in the first timeline Madoka was able to beat Walpurgis, but at the cost of her life.
>>
>>179216735
BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

YOU'RE SAYING THAT MADOKA NEEDS TO FILL THE DESPAIR THAT WAS LEFT WHEN WALPURGIS DIED.
>>
>>179216771
Meant for >>179216157
>>
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>>179216706
>>179216725
Why do you use your phone to post twice in the same minute?
Why do you refuse to ever be civil and just have normal conversation?

>You're just repeating the same shit over and over
I'm actually rephrasing it more and more simple ways in hopes you'll finally understand it, because you have learning defects.

Literally all YOU are doing is repeating yourself in saying "nuh uuuh no poroofs ur dum", and refusing to explain why you think something is wrong.
>>
>>179216771
That's exactly the implication. Madoka beats Walpurgis in every timeline, but Homura is utterly unable to. Homura is trying to save Madoka, but Madoka always ends up saving Homura. that's the whole point. It's like poetry.
>>
>>179216771
Yeah, that's what happens.
>>
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>>179216815
People have already explained to you over and over why you are wrong. Take your autism meds.
>>
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>>179216775
I don't think you understand what a vacuum is. In fact, I'm 100% sure you don't know what a vacuum is.

Displacement isn't a vacuum.
>>
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>>179216816
>>179216828
Ah, the good old "trying to upvote" posts again.

>>179216886
>people
Just you. And no, all you've done is scream "no ebidence!!1" over and over, while refusing to explain why you think something isn't evidence.
>>
>>179216944
>Muh balance
>Walpurgis just left on its own

Imagine being this retarded.
>>
>>179216739
And what? You are trying to claim she over used her powers and that's why she turned witch.
Well, if she was weaker in time line 4 than in time line 100, why was she still witching out by over using her power in time line 100 when she didn't need to use her full power?
>>
>can't win an argument
>gets called out to be a delusional retard
>goes back to his good old samefag routine
Like fucking clockwork





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