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Why is asking out a girl such a royal pain in the ass these days? Unless the girl is fat, they just sit there thinking of an excuse to say "no". Instead of innocently getting to know me, or giving me a chance in a conversation, they just immediately size me up and feel like they already know me. My parents tell me stories of how oh, this one guy stood on a table and asked her out and she thought it was romantic, or how he asked out cashiers all the time because he had a thing for them, and they would always say yes. Nowadays girls look at you like you're a rapist who only wants sex. Pretty sure if I stood on a table and asked a girl out, it would go something like one of those cringe videos. Or if I asked out a cashier she would look at her shoes in horror thinking of an excuse.

Literally how are you supposed to date women out of school? Seems like it's just entirely up to fate.
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>>19665599
You're almost certainly simply doing it wrong.
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>>19665603
Great advice thanks, really useful info.
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>>19665599
Perhaps you dont come off as a healthy individual.

Do you spend copious amounts of time playing video games, watching tv, or just on a computer in general?

When was the last time that you built something with your hands?

Do you put daily effort into improving your mind and body?
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>>19665607
Well I'm an artist by trade. I go to the gym 3 times a week. I just finished changing a friend's alternator in his car if that counts as "building". I'm not a neet or a redpill. And besides, why am I the one who needs to have all this shit sorted out? The last girl I spoke to couldn't even come up with a hobby. "ummm idk lol nothing i guess"

It's not like I'm twitching in one eye, head tilted asking the girl "G-go out with me. On a date. Please. I'm fucking begging you. By the way my name is anon, nice to meet you officer." My parents and other individuals their age always talk about these crazy wacky dating stories and nowadays it doesn't even seem like it ever could have been that way.
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>>19665607
>Women can do the same thing you're critizing him for doing yet not be held responsible and still get dates
Mcfucking neck yourself.
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>>19665607
>if I'm not a stereotypical man girls wont want me
bullshit
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>>19665607
Wow, one of the dumbest posts I've seen here in a while.

Chronic masturbators, hardcore gamers, TV addicts and internet junkies all have girlfriends somewhere in the world. You remember the world, right? It's that thing outside of mom's basement.
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>girls reject me
>it's their fault!
>>
Because rejection sucks and most people suck at handling it graciously. If you tell a guy no after he got his hopes up, 99 out of 100 times he won't make you feel threatened. But he will fish for a "reason", push to be given a date to see where it goes, lament how much he was into her, and so on. So for many girls it's kind of like when you have someone selling you something, if you might not be interested you better be real quick and firm about it because if you give them an inch they'll walk all over you.

Also in this day and age internet dating has become huge and social interaction with strangers in the public domain (not just dating-related, also chatting up a stranger on the train or whatever) has become a lot less active. This means guys are more awkward about asking girls out and girls are more awkward about navigating the situation.

You're best off making sure you get to know people first (through hobbies, college, work, friends of friends) so you move past the stage of "hey attractive person with vagina I'd like to fuck, will you give me some of your time and perhaps interest?" and can actually talk as human beings. Or you go for tinder or whatever. Cold approaching is still a thing but no you shouldn't expect it to be as easy/normal/effective as decades ago when it took place in a different societal context.
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I'm just here to check those triple-dubs.
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>>19665621
Your issue is that you’re deeply resentful and they can smell it. Women have hobbies they are just shy to open up.

My point is to improve yourself and become naturally socialized by being social. Everything else will fall into place.

Good luck.
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>>19665662
I think you're talking out your ass, no offense.
>>19665658
Thanks anon
>>19665649
Fair enough. But I work entirely with guys, don't go to school and my hobby (art) isn't exactly interactive. All I really have is online dating which has proven to be entirely a crapshoot, and "cold approaches" which are just a terrible idea.
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>>19665662
You're the same poster who claimed he was rejected for not seeming like a "healthy" individual. Women can't fucking "smell" resent moron. Sometimes they can tell you're resentful but it's through words and actions not some bullshit sixth sense, also plenty of women have opened up to me about hobbies and I have never once met a woman "shy" about her hobbies. Did you even think about your post when you typed it? "Oh no! Hope Anon doesn't find out that I like reading books! Men are intimidated by women with hobbies!" No seriously, post one fucking logical reason a woman would hide their hobby from anyone.
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>>19665635
>>19665607
I think you are both right

>>19665599
>Unless the girl is fat, they just sit there thinking of an excuse to say "no".
Why are you thinking like this? Experience or just expectations? Sometimes girls will act completely uninterested when they are actually interested. If you think that every girl is uninterested in you, you're just giving yourself a hard time.
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>>19665711
Im facinated that my advice has upset you so much. Please disregard my advice if you feel it doesnt work for you.
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Have you consider the fact that you might be ugly?
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>>19665599
>My parents tell me stories of how oh, this one guy stood on a table and asked her out and she thought it was romantic, or how he asked out cashiers all the time because he had a thing for them, and they would always say yes.

Assuming your parent really lived like movie characters, they are exceptions, not the rule. Most people date friends, or friends of friends, or coworkers, or classmates, or people on dating sites/dating services.

Most people don't date strangers. Don't focus so much on strangers and focus instead of how few girls want to hang out with you. Ask yourself why that is.
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>>19665782
>Most people don't date strangers.
"Friend of a friend" is a stranger. All friends start out as strangers. Everyone is a stranger until they're something else. Fuck off.
>>19665775
I'm definitely not ugly.
>>19665737
>Why are you thinking like this? Experience or just expectations?
Experience. Fat girls have infinitely more personality and are totally open when it comes to communication. They are fucking "real". Every fat girl I've every dated or been friends with was responsive from the get go. Meanwhile, with average, healthy weight girls, they expect you to say and do everything for nothing. You make a joke and they force the smile down. You ask them out and 9 times out of 10 it's an excuse why not. I'm saying correlation, not causation.
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>>19665623
No, it's just people who having boring insular hobbies tend to be boring insular people.
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>>19665782
Not OP, but my parents were poor as fuck and spent their childhoods sleeping around, getting in trouble with the law, and snorting a lot of coke. They think my generation is far too sexually conservative and find it baffling that it's socially unacceptable to sleep around if you're "dating," explaining that that's only if you were "going steady."

In other words, perspective on "back in the day" is very relative, especially because a lot of parents lie to their kids, and themselves, about their degenerate pasts as teens. Just saying.
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>>19665799
>"Friend of a friend" is a stranger.

If the person that knows both of you is hooking you up, you are not strangers. You have something in common, that person. And you might meet in some common activity with that same person. Just the fact that your friend is vouching for you is a lot more than hitting on someone because they bring you coffee.

>All friends start out as strangers.

But they stop being strangers when they become friends.

Why do you need to justify asking strangers out? Is the girl that works at such and such really your best shot at a relationship? Why? Why don't you have women in your life?
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>>19665803

I don't get your point. I already assume that OP's are lying, but I won't get anywhere trying to prove it. So I'm showing that, even assuming they are telling the truth, OP can't wait for it to work the same for him. He should try it like most people do it.
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>>19665814
I wasn't disagreeing with you, just adding on to demonstrate further that what they're saying about movie love being real "back in the day" is bullshit and relative anyway.
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>>19665799
Kruger dunning effect. OP is ugly as sin and doesnt even know it.>>19665801
Has
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>>19665820

Oh, ok, great. Kinda weird to tag me and not the OP but ok.
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>>19665814
>I already assume that OP's are lying
Then leave faggot, I'm sorry that a guy standing on a table is an outrageous unbelievable proposal. I'm not here to prove to you that it happened. Pic related.
>>19665806
I'm sorry your local schools have failed you to this degree. Please reeducate yourself on what a stranger is.
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>>19665836
>I'm sorry your local schools have failed you to this degree. Please reeducate yourself on what a stranger is.

I see you are not shutting me up by telling me about your options, you are just stubbornly defending the idea of asking the coffe girl out because you don't get invited to parties anymore.

Take a long look at yourself, man. Why do you need to defend this position so hard? Why don't you have friends to ask out?
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>>19665856
>wahhhh why won't you argue with me about the wild assumptions I keep making about you?
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>>19665868

Again, tell me I'm wrong about that. Tell me you can ask someone out that you already know. Tell me that you can go hook up at a party/bar.

You don't tell me that. And you know why these aren't assumptions? Because of the OP. Any person asking what you are asking is just looking for support to ask a barista out. Any person with actual dating options wouldn't be asking OP. Simple, really.
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>>19665879
>you know why these aren't assumptions?
>proceeds to make assumptions
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>>19665931

Using you OP as evidence is not an assumption, it's deduction.
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>>19665799
Girls find almost all guys ugly, so even if you think you're attractive, that won't matter in the eyes of the average female.
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>>19665599
Because you stink of weird introversion.
Learn to be a man, chop wood, build fences, fly aircraft, and dress in a suit on the weekends. I bed you still wear graphic tshirts and play videogames like a fuckin neet basedboi.
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>>19665952
how much wood did you chop this week so far, anon?
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>>19665952
>tells someone else to grow up
>"wear a suit on the weekends"
>doesn't realize any man with a respectable career wears suits M-F and loungewear on the weekend if they're not at church or golfing
Ask me how I know you're 12.
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>>19665952
Fuck that advice, women love when i wear jeans and a nice button up checkered shirt. They also love that I spend hours a day playing call of duty because it shows off how much of an alpha I am when I blow the fuck out some 10 year olds. Watching netflix is all the interesting I need, who would want to go flying. You’re stupid.
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>>19665987
Yeah really! I shouldn’t have to give up my lifestyle of vidya and sick movies for some bitch.
Just wish I could get a gf.
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>>19666043

If video games and movies are you "lifestyle", then you'll have a hard time dating. Enjoying those things is not the same as them being your identity.
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>>19666055
No fuck off, why should I change for some girl?

I am amazing.
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>>19666058

You don't need to change. You just have to accept that solitary hobbies are not conducive to dating, so the more you rely on them for identity, the further away you are from dating.

You can't whine if you are choosing this.
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>>19665599
>Why is asking out a girl such a royal pain in the ass these days?
It isn't, you're just approaching like a total autist, assuming you're actually approaching multiple women and didn't give up after being turned down.

You're upset that you're not being given a chance and are being let down gently. You're the problem, women don't owe you a chance to tell them about your hobbies, aspirations or how you would text them good morning and good night every day.
Your approach needs work, or you simply aren't appealing to the women you are approaching.
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>>19666076
Not the guy you're talking to but this is why I choose prostitutes and yet I can still go to jail for many years because of it.
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>>19666092

Again, that's your choice. You can do something illegal that can get you into jail, or not. Up to you.
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>>19665635
But are they hot girlfriends though? Getting a girlfriend isnt hard, but a hot one though, some serious shit right there
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>>19666076
yeah i can
the world needs to adapt to what i like
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>>19665599
Do you make regular friends easily?
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>>19666131
>the world needs to adapt to what i like

And that's your problem. The issue is not that your hobbies are geeky, the issue is that they are SOLITARY.

The world is not going against you, it's just simple logic. You won't meet people by hanging out alone.
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>>19666142
Fuck off normie, go back to facebook.
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>>19666148

Is it really that hard to accept that hanging out alone at home is not conducive to dating?
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Not OP but
>>19665607
>Do you spend copious amounts of time playing video games, watching tv, or just on a computer in general?
Yes. I don't know why I would do something I'm uninterested in such as hiking or learning an instrument. Is that necessary for a gf?
>Do you put daily effort into improving your mind and body?
I like history, learning Japanese, and I'm a mechanical engineering major
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>>19666161
>Yes. I don't know why I would do something I'm uninterested in such as hiking or learning an instrument. Is that necessary for a gf?

Read this: >>19666142
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>>19666159
I want a gf, not some normie fag life. I bet you dont even order groceries online or use ubereats, loser.
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>>19666176

Oh, so you are just trolling now. The groceries part was just too much, letting you know to adjust for next time.
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>>19666159
i can buy and sell shit on craigslist while being solitary but dating is a no-go? please. the simple fact is that normalfags like other normalfags. if you dont want to conform to their social sheep games, they want nothing to do with you.
there needs to be a culling of all the people who have different interests than me.
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>>19666181
Lol thank you...
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>>19666182
>there needs to be a culling of all the people who have different interests than me.

And now I'm sure you are the same guy as above. I mean, bait better. No one can say thar with a straight face, unless they are mentally fucked up. And if you really are so gone, then I can't help you.
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OP please post a picture of yourself so we can know for sure if you're ugly or not. We want to help you.
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Just as technology has only been changing and updating faster and faster as time goes on, so has society.

Today, many if not most of what we would consider 'classic' institutions and behaviors in society have eroded or shifted. "Just asking out the girl down the street" is simply not a likely scenario in today's society, even though it was the accepted norm back in our parents' and grandparents' time. It worked back then because "the girl down the street" would have only had a social circle about as big as the neighborhood she lived in. Her pool of potential bachelors could be counted on one hand, two if she (or he) was lucky. All you had to do was be better than that asshole Greg and she was practically yours. Our parents still dish out this advice because it was the same advice that worked for all their friends, and their parents, and their parents' parents, and their parents' parents' parents. It simply doesn't make sense to them that the "good old ways" of doing things could suddenly get turned upside down in just 10-20 years by some little trivial nerd hobby thing like "the internet".

Today, "the girl down the street" is presented with over 100 new potential bachelors a year, either online or in-person, because now her social circle spans cities, if not countries. As a bachelor today, you can no longer compare yourself to the others around you to come out on top. It is simply futile to think in this competitive way, because due to the erosion of "old world socialization" and the emergence of "new world socialization" and global awareness, there will always, ALWAYS be a bigger fish right around the corner. Even if you're the hottest shit in your whole country, oh, look at that, all the girls around you are now flocking to some motherfucker in Italy with a bigger social media presence.

(1/?)
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>>19666233
All you can really do to stay sane and happy these days is to see yourself realistically as a good fish. Not the best fish, obviously, but not even "a better fish than x". You must simply see yourself, and what your self means to you. If you aren't happy with yourself, you need to make the changes in your life that will lead to your happiness. If you base your happiness on others' opinions of you, you end up like the modern "girl down the street", who is frantically updating her several social media accounts every hour with posts and photos specifically adhering to only the most popular opinions and trends because she has become addicted to the approval of such a large number of individuals.

You may say: "That sounds pathetic, how is it that women like that can succeed in the dating world but men like that are shot down for being insecure?" Again, this is the world we live in. Even SJWs have changed their tune from "equality" to "equity" to favor certain groups over others. You can't change it, you must change with it to survive and succeed.

(2/?)
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>>19666237
As a man, you must be above insecurity. You must get in touch with yourself, learn well your tendencies, strengths, weaknesses, and darker parts. Especially the latter two. You can not truly be okay with yourself if you still hide parts of you from yourself out of shame. I had to come to terms with the fact that I'm selfish as fuck. I would always present myself as an honorable guy, and describe myself as selfless, but I realized I was really just saying what I wanted to be, because what I truly was disgusted me. In actuality, I hate going out of my way for anyone unless I have to. Always have. I have come to embrace this now. Knowing my nature, I never ask others for anything, and try to always be self-sufficient. Part of my philosophy these days is that everyone should be able to serve themselves, and only seek to involve others if necessary. I feel okay about feeling lazy and selfish now, because my laziness and selfishness only affects me.

Once you are actually okay with who or what you are, or at least are in the process of changing parts of you into what you're okay with, you can then just be straight up about it instead of trying to dress it up. If people know you're selfish and lazy, they will appreciate you so much more when you do something for them. If they think you're so generous and righteous, they will just be upset and disappointed that you aren't doing more for them, and that you lied about yourself. People like things to work the way they expect them to. More than any of that, though, is that you are now in a better frame of reference. Once you're okay with yourself, it's no longer "She doesn't want me because I'm shitty", it becomes "She doesn't want me because I'm just not the specific kind of guy she's looking for, but I'm me and I like being me, so therefore she must not be the right kind of girl for me either".
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>>19666242
There are too many different people today, and not just people, but in most countries - individuals. Everyone is so much their own unique character now that unless you seem like a total generic archetype, you will be judged on an individual basis. By archetype or character type I mean artsy, nerd, hippy, athlete, professional, party-life, etc. Try to be more of a character and less of a character type. One of the big things girls and women look for in a man - Actually, the biggest thing anyone looks for in anyone else now that I mention it - is not just confidence (and how your self-worth is the only indicator others have of your general worth), but whether they'll remember you. If you have a way of talking, tendencies, hobbies, and a personality that stands out (without being completely socially unacceptable), you will be remembered. Other guys may come along that are hotter, bigger, richer, more sociable than you, but if they are all just generic, inoffensive, cookie-cutter, trendy-following, please-give-me-likes-and-upvotes types, they will be easily forgotten, and thoughts will always return to that one different guy - you.

One last thing - you. You are important. In fact, you are literally the most important thing in your life. Never forget that. The approval of your parents, your friends, your superiors, and your religious figures doesn't mean shit if you don't actually enjoy the life you live. You only get this life. Sure, keep the greater good in mind, but never at the expense of the good of your own life. Once you are completely satisfied with your life, you can then contribute whole-heartedly and with full strength toward the good of others with everything you have, and your contributions will matter so much more. So when you're chatting up or getting to know a girl, don't think like "I hope she likes me, I better showcase myself well", but keep in mind: "I hope I like her, I better get to know her well".

(4/5) (forgot counter on last post)
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>>19666256
tl;dr:
>Use online dating or social media because meeting randoms in-person is something that is falling out of societal norms
>Don't comapare yourself to others - the internet makes it too easy to be constantly surrounded by people better than you that make you feel worse by comparison
>Get to know yourself: Keep the things you like in mind, take steps to improve whatever it is you don't like, become familiar with and embrace the darker sides because you are you and hiding from yourself is not genuine
>Be your own best judge. Your opinion of you matters far more than anyone else's. Why would it matter whether someone else is happy with your life if you aren't?
>Be straight-up and up-front. Say what you mean. Don't try to dress things up so others might find them prettier, just do what is most comfortable for you, and others will be more comfortable aruond you too
>Live for you. Keep what you want in mind at all times, and only consider what others want secondary. If you're completely selfless all the time, others will come to expect it from you and some may take advantage.

(5/5)
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>>19666226
kek
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>>19666259
This is true. But another reason why it's so hard to date in this day is that women are a lot more independent now. Every girl nowadays wants to provide for herself when before they had to settle due to lack of opportunity. Basically women's rights were a mistake.
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>>19665599
I've never experienced this. I think you just haven't taken up the option that you're at fault.
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>>19666304
It's less about independence, and more about perceived worth in a social circle the size of the planet.

It used to be:
>Honey, if you want a good life, marry a doctor. If you want to marry a doctor, look as hot as possible and do everything you can to serve and impress him.
Now it has changed a little:
>Honey, if you want a good life, marry a doctor. If you want to marry a doctor, get a higher education and a career that is at least as impressive as a doctor. This will put you above every man who isn't a doctor, and guarantee you to only date men as (or more) impressive than you. Better yet, become even more successful than a doctor, he'll be the one desperately trying to impress you, and then you can just take your pick from the lineup.

The problem comes when now that these women have built themselves up to be at the top, they start complaining that there are no men worthy of them anymore, and absolutely refuse, after all that work, to settle for less than their ideal. In essence, education has entitled these women to higher dating standards that aren't even realistic anymore.
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>>19666327
Are you old enough to know what it used to be like?
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>>19666331
34 gives enough perspective into what things were like before the Information Age.

The internet really did change almost everything about the societies that were able to embrace it, practically overnight, from a big-picture perspective.
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>>19665662
yea like putting on makeup and watching netflix

basic bitches do not have hobbies
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>>19666375
Why do you believe that makeup isn't a hobby?
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>>19665599
>shadman
>>
Maybe you're just ugly lmao don't blame them unless you're better looking than the fat girls
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>>19666343

I'm 25 and I'm fucking lost when it comes to getting a girlfriend. It just seems like they change opinions about you in a matter of seconds. I dunno, I basically gave up and I'm kind of happy. There are times when I wish I had a gf, but then I'm like naa.
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>>19667041
That's actually not a bad place to be in. When I was 25, I was just as fucking lost. Everyone I knew had just fell backwards into something long-term by chance - either back in high school, through friends, through coworkers... All the things you shouldn't actively use to meet people, but "whoops it just happened to work for us!" None of them had any real advice. All my real successes and progress came from experimenting with dating sites over the years. They're the only place where people are actually looking to meet potential partners, and the only place where you actually know something about the person you're chatting up other than "she's hot and works at my local coffee shop".

But if it's not working out, if you're feeling doubt, or paranoia, or just too much pain from rejection (the path is never 100% safe, far from it), you need to put dating aside and focus on yourself instead. Build yourself up, be it physically or mentally. Get some more new experiences under your belt, push yourself to do new and scary things, because what have you got to lose? Once you've changed, grown, and hopefully become more comfortable with yourself, then you're ready to try again.

(1/2)
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>>19667191
And remember: Dating is like an interview where you are both employers and applicants for each other. You may want to impress her, but don't try too hard - you also need to make sure she isn't sporting any red flags, and actually brings what YOU want to the table. "I'll take any kind of girl" is to women what a negatively-polarized magnet is to another negatively-polarized magnet: You may not necessarily seem like a good match for a particular girl if you will take literally anybody. She needs more relationship "insurance", so to speak, so she puts more value in finding someone who specifically is looking for someone like her. If you really want to get a job you like, it's best to apply at places that are looking for employees like you, instead of "just anybody". Likewise, if you're looking for an employee that wants to work for you and not quit, you should look at hiring applicants that actually like the job specifications instead of someone who "just needs a job".

That's generally how women look at that part of dating, and you should too. It's okay to put yourself first. In fact, it's expected. Which brings me to another thing women do that you should too: Practice dating. You should start by dating women who are "o.k., but not my first choice". Women who you wouldn't mind dating, but also wouldn't mind losing at all. Women you know you won't be nervous around because they don't seem amazing by first impressions. Be up-front about the fact that you're just dating and seeing where things go - you're not looking for anything serious, yet.

(2/3)
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>>19667231
Again - blew my mind when I realized how common it is, but this is a regular thing people do. Then, once you get one that hits off (Yes, you may/will even get rejected by "ugly" or "fat" girls. It will happen, even if you're hot, rich, jacked, charming, etc. It sometimes happens because you're just not the right type for them, sometimes they just feel too intimidated/insecure by how much more attractive/successful/whatever you are. There is no catch-all way to be attractive to girls, that's why you have to find ones that mesh with you), just date that person, try to make it work, but overall, get those dating and relationship experiences, learn what you really like/need and don't like in a relationship and learn what kind of partner you really want most in life. If things go well, great, keep it up. If you're thinking she may not be the one you want for life, don't be afraid to end the relationship, and be honest and up-front about why. Just make sure you don't go wasting a year of someone's life just to learn what you want in yours and then leave them. I'm sure you wouldn't like a girl doing that to you. Eventually, the experience will lead to confidence, and then the actual girls you see something serious with won't be so hard to talk to, plus the inevitable rejections will be a little bit easier to deal with.

And that's just where I'll leave life advice in general: Be honest and up-front. Not just with others, but with yourself. Learn yourself well. Know what to forgive about yourself and what to work on improving. Become friends with yourself. Wear your life on your sleeve, don't hide any part of your yourself from anyone (situational behavior aside, ex: professional environments where you should adhere to the "living number" rule), especially yourself. People always find it more admirable when you admit a fault than when you try to cover it up out of shame. That is the secret of confidence and "just being yourself, bro".

(3/3)
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>>19666304
>Other people's rights were a mistake because I can't get pussy
embarrassing
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>>19667338
Fucking rekt
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>>19665775
I'm starting to think this might be it. Every girl I've ever tried to make a move on has rejected it. What else could it mean? I don't think my personality is *that* horrible, or maybe it is and I'm just unaware of that.

Gay dudes have tried to make moves though, if I were gay life would be easier, I'd probably be happier too.
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stop being ugly lmao, change your genetics or something its easy
>>
women have an easier time picking out a partner than men because there are usually so many more single men available and interested than the other way around. because of that it makes us more picky to choose someone fitting to go out with. it's not really you, it's more like we don't want to go on a date with someone, find out we don't click (or worse that they actually are creepy/rapist/etc) and then we wasted our time (or worse etc).
me personally as a mid 20s woman, I have never been asked out in person but I would still turn down a date from a random person because I'm only attracted to friends first. why not try to be a friend to women first, show that you actually care for them, and not just act like you're trying to get laid? we need to know you want to stick around and care first, cause something like asking out a cashier is horrible and puts them on the spot since they are working and not thinking about dating random dudes.
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>>19668160
>friendzone yourself then try to claw your way out of a pit filled with men trying to do the same thing
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>>19668163
LMAO if you are only being friends with a woman just to get laid then you deserve the friendzone
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>>19667338
yes and it destroyed the nuclear family
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>>19668170
issues at home anon?
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>>19668160
Yeah we know what this bullshit is. "Don't want to waste time on A SINGLE FUCKING DATE". Give me a break, a bunch of guys would give five years off their life for you to go out with them once. For you, if there isn't some emotional/social clickage on date number one, then it was a waste of your time? No consideration for maybe "hey, I met a new person and went somewhere nice for the afternoon". Nope, waste of time? Yeah, ok bitch.

"Oh, be my friend first!"

Fuck off. The friend zone is a REAL thing, and you're just trying to increase your pool of orbiting betas who will literally lick the dirt off your feet so you wouldn't have to vacuum your carpet. Again, fuck off. Guys are getting wise to this, and we are sick of your shit.

No, you do not OWE anyone a date, but it's quite clear that you women consider yourselves to be prizes to be won, and guys to be little more than gladiators fighting for your hand. The losers (which is almost all men) just get to be your McDonald's toys.

Eat shit.
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>>19668167
Being friends with a woman for any reason gets you the friend zone.
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>>19668242
No. But because women want to ignore biology and that they are the ones producing babies by being selfish and going off doing their own thing. Fuck them and fuck you.
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your first impressions game is weak

if you're trying to get a person to invest valuable time into you it has to be a win for them and not just you. Ask yourself what do you have to offer to someone that they can't easily get better from someone else and then get better at showcasing that to the other person

oh and just b urself
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>>19665801
>implying women are interesting people
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>>19667191
>>19667231
>>19667246
>But if it's not working out, if you're feeling doubt, or paranoia, or just too much pain from rejection (the path is never 100% safe, far from it), you need to put dating aside and focus on yourself instead. Build yourself up, be it physically or mentally.
Listen, I get what you mean. Build yourself up as a human, either have good looks going for you or a good personality, or both.
But you have to understand, being paranoid and feeling doubt literally comes from within you. It's something so ingrained in your brain that it's a part of you always telling you you'll fail and that it's more worth to never ask a girl out than to ask and get rejected. In this state, the brain hates rejection or anything going wrong and becomes paranoid about the situation, so nothing ever happens apart from coming to 4chan to ask for advice, that will ultimately lead nowhere.
It's a mental health issue that can't really be resolved with therapy, it needs to be resolved with exposure to girls as you just explained in your posts. But the people with this mindset won't ever do that because there's a very real barrier in their brain stopping them from asking a girl out.
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>>19665599

Because you're unattractive and/or have a terrible personality and there are more appealing men out there who are speaking to the same women as you are.
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>>19665879
It's apparent to me that people like you, who vehemently call anyone here asking for dating advice a fucked up loser who should essentially accept that they have unfixable problems and hate themselves, are unlikeable assholes yourself and cope by bullying others. Lots of people here are losers and hypocrites like you describe but making such negative assumptions about anyone who fits a superficial image you have and basically reading them scripted insults is a dick move and not helpful.
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>>19666259
Fucking narcissistic retard
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>>19668160
>>19668259
Make sure you listen here, roastie. Women really don't think much about the friendzone but it's a real and very common thing that affects almost all men.
>>
One thing that's important to realize is that almost 100% of these fantastical "Stood on a table at the diner" or "Threw a pinecone at my window just like the movies" stories aren't true. They're either filtered through rose-colored glasses so thick that they're near opaque, they're being remembered fondly although they were awkward at the time, or they're just straight up lies for the kids that spiraled out of control.
Anecdote: I had a friend in high school who said her parents met from opposite sides of the Berlin Wall when it fell. Wasn't until junior year when they came in to talk about living in Germany in the 60's that they actually met by virtue of the both of them being in the same biker gang.
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>>19668520
I think that you're really on to something here, but don't have the faintest idea what to do about it. A lot of people I know have encouraged me to drink alcohol and do drugs because they see that I have a lot of potential, but am held back by inhibition. However, my experiences have led me to believe that alcohol does very little to alleviate anxiety and that its purported effects are mostly just placebo. And I honestly just can't fathom the mindset that leads people to take drugs. I casually speak with women every day, but that other realm of romance is such unfamiliar territory to me that the mere thought of it makes me feel like a fly struggling to break free from a spider's web.
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>>19668520
As the guy who's been writing those big tl;dr:s you quoted, believe me, I totally get you.

That's basically depression, and trust me, I know depression. I lost over 5 years of my life to being so paranoid and focused on failure that I did absolutely nothing with my life, like I was paralyzed by my own fear, suspicion, jealousy, and hatred of the world around me. At least, that was while I felt emotions. As they faded away to the point of complete and utter deadpan nihilism, I just couldn't even care enough to keep playing the trivial game of life. If I didn't have to go so far out of my way to kill myself, I likely would have done it.

I remember it well. I remember all my first years of (heavy quotation marks) """dating""", a.k.a cringe-worthy attempts at chatting up girls while I was practically a spaghetti fountain, before I would take years of not even trying because of how futile my shitty attempts felt. Then loneliness and horniness and a little spark of confidence would arise, I would make more half-hearted nerve-wracking attempts and miserably fail again, then take more years of just focusing on myself and my hobbies because I literally came to the conclusion of "fuck it, it will literally never ever happen, I should just get used to making the best I can out of single life. Maybe ASMR videos and eventually a sex doll/bot can fill in that void."

It helps to focus on the downsides of relationships. Keeps things in perspective. Makes relationships not seem like some ultimate solution to happiness in life, which means you won't miss one as much, and if you go for one you won't psych yourself out as much with thoughts of "I NEED THIS SO BAD".

But yes, what I described weren't the first steps of building social skills. That's some more advanced stuff.

(1/3)
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>>19669559
The very first step to building social skills is, well, for me, spite. It took me finally saying to myself "Well you know what? If the whole world somehow just fucking "gets" this shit, and they all have to nerve to look down on me for not getting the memo or studying the manual or whatever the fuck, then -I- will make -THEM- feel awkward for once! How about that shit, asshole? Did it inconvenience you and seem weird that this random creepy stranger said "hey, how's it going?" out of fucking nowhere in a public space? THEN GOOD FUCK YOU I AM USING YOU TO UPGRADE MYSELF AND IMPROVE MY TALKING GAME. NOW I MAKE YOU FEEL AWKWARD TO BUILD MY CONFIDENCE INSTEAD OF THE OTHER WAY AROUND"

Maybe there are better ways to think about it, but the only way I could get over the self-defeating logical fallacy of "I wouldn't want to inconvenience others with my shitty life", was still maintaining the notion that my life inconvenienced others, but using that fact spitefully, as some sort of revenge, to step over it.

(2/3)
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>>19669564
And that was the part I found so surprising: People actually weren't that weirded out. Some were, but then I would think "Oh yeah? Well haha fuck you I made you feel weird asshole, at least I will literally never see you again and since you're just some unattractive rando I don't care what you think of me and you'll just forget me anyways!" I would never say things like that, I would always -try- to be polite and casual. It would still feel weird and scary, but I would just have to keep trying to maintain the idea that even though I would obsess over the event and replay it over and over and over again for weeks in my head, the other person has a real life with real shit going on and they'll have forgotten about it not even an hour later.

It's not an overnight fix. It's a long, long process of self-discovery and self-improvement. However, if you really are feeling the way you describe, that automatically self-defeating attitude of "I'm so pathetic why even try", then that's depression, and let me tell you from experience, you aren't ready to date if you have depression. The only thing you can do in that case is survive. Survive, do whatever you can to get through each day, and one day, maybe weeks, maybe months, maybe years from now, there -will- be an end to the tunnel, that isn't death. There -is- an end to depression. Given enough time, the chemicals responsible for proper emotional responses and self-image start to rebalance and return. Just... hang in there. Don't give up. It may seem hopeless now, but you have to trust me, just hold on, survive long enough, and you WILL regain that strength. Dating can wait til then. Trust me, it's never too late to make it, even for you.

(3/3)
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>>19665599
wew lad
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>>19668798
Hey now, let's talk it out.
What don't you agree with?
Granted, I can't cover the whole scope of the entirety of social philosophies in just a couple posts, but having myself gone from "professional doormat and permanent friendzone resident" to "have dated several very different girls and now have a happy long-term relationship of 3 years", I can speak from experience how effective valuing yourself can be.

When I say to "be selfish", I mean it from the perspective I used to have, where literally doing anything for myself, ever, no matter how small, seemed selfish. To me. It wasn't until I decided to just do what I felt most comfortable doing, and then noticed that literally everyone around me who was more successful than me had been doing the very same thing the whole time, and that's why they got ahead in life while I remained behind. You can help boost everyone else over the wall, and that's all good, but what happens when no one bothers to reach down and pull you up? You need to know when to put yourself first once in a while, maybe get that boost yourself first, THEN be the one to reach down and pull others up.
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>>19665599
Being asked out by a random stranger is extremely awkward OP. Very few people will agree to that sort of thing, even if you're 10/10 hot.
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>>19668160
>why not try to be a friend to women first, show that you actually care for them, and not just act like you're trying to get laid?

>voluntarily becoming an emotional tampon for no fucking reason
l m a o
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>>19669670
>Not being able to tell the difference between being an emotional tampon and being able to show women that you have enough social intelligence to be friendly and avoid having a complete autistic meltdown in the event that you discover they don't want to have sex with you

w e w l a d
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>>19665599
Entitlement. Women have been taught they deserve a tall muscular man with a huge cock and a big wallet.

I honestly started going for ugly athletic girl or straight 10 because all above average girls think they are royalty or some shit.
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>>19669679
why exactly should someone asking you out become a friend, just to end up eventually asking you out anyway?

the entire point of a first date is to get a feel for one another, why the fuck would anyone relegate themselves to being a friend for a bit, just to go back to having a first date?

what the fuck is the purpose you absolute idiot
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>>19669559
>>19669564
>>19669569
Same guy here, one important thing I want to mention: One of the hardest things I learned as I grew older was WHY everyone else seemed to just "get" life, social cues, unspoken social codes/rules, flirting, dating, and socializing while I always struggled with them: They didn't think about it.

I valued my "intelligence", my constant observations and analyses of everything around me, philosophizing and wondering about how these social actions work, and how to get them to work for me, and if I even WANT to follow those rules, and what the consequences are for breaking them, etc., etc., etc. I thought and thought and thought myself to paralysis. Every action I could conceive of would carry so many consequences and uncertainties that I couldn't guarantee to work in my favor, that I would psych myself out every time and just do nothing, or I would psych myself out so much, that whenever I did try, I second-guessed everything and would dump a truckload of spaghetti.

But others - They just wouldn't think about it. Like, at all. They would just do it, not even considering how likely or unlikely they were to succeed. And in doing so, they learned through experience. They found out what works and what doesn't work, what will start a fight and what will make a friend, what will make a friend and what will make a girlfriend. They learned through trial-and-error what I was too analytic and paranoid to even try.

This is why, by the time I was a teenager, guys were getting girlfriends (and even sex) while I was still too nervous and awkward to get a phone number. Everyone seemed like they "got" life because they did. They all learned it the hard way, as little kids, while I was too afraid to learn it the hard way, which was why by teenage years it was already second-nature to them.

Trial-and-error. It's the only way that really works. It's slow and takes a long time, and you may be starting late, but if you never start, you'll never get there.
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>>19669694
too true
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>>19665599
>shadman
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>>19669691
Let me give you a "social interaction 101", autist. You see, women are different. They're people, much like you or I and not species of Pokemon. Friendship, additionally, is a highly contextual term. Friendships come in all different shapes, sizes and degrees. You see, autist, when asking someone out a general rapport is required; meaning that some kind of relationship whether it casual, platonic, or friendly needs to be used as a foundation for taking the relationship to the next step. Sometimes relationships start as friendships. Sometimes relationships can start as flirty banter between two people in an office setting. The possibilities, autist, are endless. So the assertion is not that you should become best-fucking-buds with a girl before asking her out but that attempting to mimic the platonic, care-free and emotionally supportive environment of a friendship before attempting to take said relationship to a romantic level is often a very disarming and comfortable way to interact with women. If both of you are intelligent, well-adjusted adults without such a severe case of aspergers that you have then you and her will most likely pick up on the electric undertones of your interactions and silently agree that you are both engaging in the beginning, flirty phases of a relationship.

As I said previous, this is not the only way to spark up a romantic relationship, merely one way. Some women like a bit of build up before deciding they trust or know someone enough to date them so for specific kinds of girls its a solid approach. Some women enjoy not having the pressure of needing to decide whether or not they're romantically interested and appreciate non-specified interactions and hangouts without any predetermined outcomes to build a connection before taking the next step. At any point in this relationship either person has the option of bailing and either expressing their feelings or moving on to greener pastures. Have any questions, berger boy?
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>>19669725
>typed all this

ok then
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>>19669729
This is not the right board for you if processing two paragraphs worth of basic english is too great of a task.
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>>19669725
Would have been easier just to point-form it.
>Don't outright claim it's a friendship or dating. Just start "hanging out" with her and let your feelings for each other decide what the relationship will become
>If you realize you don't even like her as a friend, you can let her down up-front by letting her know that you're just not feeling a connection (keep it vague), or just keep things casual and gradually stop contacting her if you're huge puss and can't friend-breakup with her
>If you realize you like her as a friend and more, let her know your feelings after a week or so. Remember: This is the "slow" approach, but you still need to make your feelings known before she thinks you only want to be friends, and goes for another guy who made a move first.
>This is where you have to stand up for what you want: If she wants to just be friends but you want to be more, then you have to let her know that you couldn't just be friends when you have such strong feelings for her, and that's where it ends. Don't friendzone yourself. Sometimes she actually does just want a platonic friend (female friends can be... finicky), but if you don't want to be that, you need to make it clear. No hard feelings, just politely and honestly not what you're looking for.

Okay, so that wasn't point form and it wasn't easier, but it's less antagonistic. And yeah, as that anon mentioned, this is just one way of doing things that won't work for everyone. There is no fool-proof catch-all strategy for building relationships that works for everyone. Another way that also works is online dating. You get to talk to someone in-depth and really get to know them before the first date, so you're not going in blind, and you also know for sure that they;re looking for a relationship, even if it's not necessarily with you.
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>>19665799
Why not just find a fatty, get close to her, and make her lose the weight?
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>>19669781
Think of it like this:
When was the last time you actually wanted to do something after someone "made" you do it? Did you value them trying to change your life to suit their desires, or resent them for it?

For someone to truly do something and follow through with it, they need to want to. If you "force" her to lose weight, she'll just think of it like a chore, she'll neglect it, avoid it, or worse, go hard on it, to spite you, so that once she looks "hot" and feels like hot shit, she'll feel like she deserves better than you.

What you may want to do instead, is work out a lot more. Invite her every time, but go without her anyways. Let her see the difference in your body that exercise makes. Let her see the difference between your body and hers. Let her see how much more flexible you are, how you can run and climb stairs and lift things for longer without sweating or losing breath. Let her imagine the kinds of women you could get now that you look so much better than her. Keep inviting her. One day her insecurity will catch up and she might just join you.

Or, you know, actually date the shape and kind of woman you want instead of getting an "easy" one and trying to change her into what you want. If you can't actually get the kind of woman you want, you probably need to either reconsider your standards, or build yourself up to her level.
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>>19669810
I wanted this cutie but I was fat and lazy and she pointed out my belly and over the course of like 2 months I cut hard and worked out and then she wanted my peepee. If you can self better yourself with a help of a lover you have to be a total loser
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>>19665647
No one says it's their fault, it could simply be nature's fault or parents' fault for not teaching their son how to date.
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>>19665599
>Why is asking out a girl such a royal pain in the ass these days?
>such a royal pain in the ass these days
>these days
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>>19665662
Ah yeah, better wheel out the old *women are all-knowing and have 13 extra senses for determining "confidence" and "soggyknees"* canard.
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>>19665599
It’s because you’re fucking boring.
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So I tried going up to a few random girls this week but after like 3 sentences back and worth the conversation dies and the girl looks confused to why I'm talking to her. I have no idea what I'm doing. It took me a lot to build up to the point where I would at least approach girls. What now?
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>>19665599
females have always been hard to get
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>>19670503
Holy shit, you're actually trying! Dude, that's a big improvement. I have to commend you on that alone. It's the most important step. You have a 0% chance of winning the lottery if you never buy a ticket.

See how even though it went "bad", it actually wasn't that bad? She didn't bust out pepper spray, or ridicule you, or run away. At worst, it's just an awkward "okay... bye..." and you or her leave.

Now you have to start getting creative, and I can help, but I need to know your intentions - Are you trying to flirt with her and set up a date, or are you just building up your conversation and socialization skills?
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>>19666242
I like me and like being me, but that no one else wants to be part of my life is starting to change that. You want me to go in two directions at the same time.
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>tfw you can't just buy a girl from her father any longer and that she doesn't have any say in the matter
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>>19665599
That's because you're doing it wrong.
Men are for relationships and sex.
Literally the only purpose of a woman is for procreation.
They should be avoided otherwise.




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