why are sociopaths looked down on i would be so much more effective if i was 100% sociopathic all these unwanted feelings shit just complicates life
>>9884016> Why are people with no emphatic buffer looked down upon by society who by majority yearns for empathy.idk, you tell me.
nothing wrong with being a sociopath. the higher you climb the corporate ladder, the more you have to deal with.
>>9884016>why are sociopaths looked down onBecause a society cant function if there are too many of them.In an ancient tribal society sociopaths would be identified and lynched.In the natural human state (nomadic tribe of ~150 people), every male must be willing to fight and die for the survival of the tribe at any time. Self serving sociopaths dont fit into that, thats why only 5% of people are sociopaths. They used to be killed when found out.
>>9884062>religion wasn’t used as a crux by smarter people to control dumber peopleThey’ve always found a way to thrive, anon
>>9884077Evolution anon: The majority of them did not reproduce, otherwise more than 5% would be sociopathic.In our current society it pays to be a sociopath but in the tightly-knit community humans used to live in for millennia, a cunt that fucks over everybody would often be found out as a traitor and exiled or killed. Concepts like honor exist as a protection mechanism against such people.
>>9884077and where in the fuck did I mention religion
>>9884114nothing, he's just a typical teenage edgelord with his "dark twisted psychopath" phase so it's only inevitable that he'd bring up religion as being for sheeple.
>>9884114You’re implying that all we did was hunt and value strength. Judging by cave paintings and our predisposition to worship this seems highly unlikely.
>>9884104It'd be interesting to see the lineage of other sociopaths. Mine goes back to ancient Irish nobility. I've always wondered if there are more sociopaths of high birth.
>>9884016Take some stimulants like Adderall or Concerta - I find it makes me somewhat sociopathic, IDGAF about people as much. Turns off some sort of empathy part of my brain.
>>9884148Way to not react to whats being said. >>9884138must be correct.I didn't even mention hunting or strength. In a tribal society (pre-religion. religions are relatively new), everybody must be 100% committed to the tribes survival. A self-serving sociopath cannot do that and when found out he would be exiled from the tribe and hence be less likely to reproduce than a loyal member of the tribe.That's why only a few % of people are sociopaths: In the times where our current genetic makeup developed, being a sociopath wasn't a beneficial character-trait.
>>9884016Sociopaths are not what you think. Not exactly.Other anons pointed out why (luckily ) they are in a minority.I would also like to add to that that sociopaths have problems with impulse control and require instant gratification very often, especially when young.Sociopaths don't feel empathy, it doesn't mean that they don't have emotions at all. They are very capable of anger for example. Sociopathy is very often comorbid with narcissism and the "lack of respect" perceived by a sociopath leads, very often to aggression that is nearly uncontrolable.People who don't feel emotions don't exist. Well, maybe they do, but we call them vegetables and they are in a catatonic state and don't do much desu
>>9884016because you cannot take advantage of one.
>>9884205Using evolution is like not using your brain.This behaviour is in the minority ? It's inferior except for some niches.This behaviour is in the majority ? It's superior the overwhelming amount of time.Only 15% of humans have an IQ superior to 115, and most subhumans are at sub-80IQ.
>>9884222checked, but I can't believe those statistics, can you provide a link? 115 seems low.
>>9884222If you live in an area where food is abundant and there is no winter you have to plan for, you don't need as much IQ and can reproduce just fine at 80 IQ so there won't be selection for higher IQ for.
>>9884214Yes you can. And easily. Especially the narcissistic type.It's because they don't have empathy and are different to be completely honest.Life is a series of transactions (favor for a favor) and whether you realize it or not you keep track of these transactions. They are not financial in nature, more on the emotional side.So if someone only takes and never gives you won't be doing "business " with them.And you are more than likely not to like them.As other anons pointed out it's all very much a product of our evolution. We wouldn't survive without cooperation and support.Do you know that hope alone(an emotion) can make you survive longer in an extreme situation? We need the emotional and physical support, that's how we evolved. Without it...well sociopaths wouldn't survive neither.But no one likes leeches.
>>988422868% of society falls within 1 standard deviation up and down from the mean IQ of 100. So 68% of people in a society with an average IQ of 100 have the IQ between 85-115The anon is correct.
>>9884228https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Current_tests115 is the cut-off point for whether people can do literally any profession, including what is associated with the genius and the gifted.Bigger IQ only means quicker and more lateral thinking basically, which is useful is any area, but not necessary if extraordinary amounts of creativity and forethought is needed.Scientists, for example, don't really need to be that bright, since the scientific method is a way to grind knowledge into existence, just need people smart enough to apply it, i.e. at least 115.Another note, 85IQ is the cut-off point for the military, as in they will refuse you.That's 15% of the population, 25% of women, 65% of american niggers, and NINETY 90 PERCENT % of subsaharan niggers.Now that you understand what IQ represent a little better, look at my picture.
>>9884269Oh shit that pic is doom
>>9884269Hey where is this graphic from?I'm not saying that it is wrong but I was under the impression that the Flynn Effect still holds. That's an unbelievable and sharp decline.I just find it hard to believe it.Also:>>85IQ is the cut-off point for the military, as in they will refuse you.That's 15% of the population, 25% of women, 65% of american niggers, and NINETY 90 PERCENT % of subsaharan niggers.Source on that?Especially women. That does not sound correct.
>>9884016You already are a sociopath if you think like that, retard. I'd bet you'd screw somebody over to improve your life without thinking twice about it. The problem is that you're too dumb to actually manipulate people.
>>9884269lol nigga, you sayin people in 1950 had an IQ of 10 million, are you for real senpai thats crazy hahaha
>>9884041I don't fuck yearn for empathy, it gets in my way
>>9884104How the fuck after hundreds of thousands of years of evolution via small tribal societies do sociopaths still exist then?
>>9884359Not really. The population is on the left, the quotient on the right.You look at the red line for IQ and blue for population.
>>9884016What kind of retarded question is that?>Why do people not want to associate with people that don't give a shit about them?Normal humans, flawed as empathy is in a pragmatic sense in modern society, value emotional interconnection and support on a fundamental level. The tribal dynamic has demanded its evolution.In addition, its actually just common sense. Would you be super thrilled if a person smacked you in the head with a baseball bat in the street? No, you would try to avoid that. Why would you also not look down on people who have no qualms with harming you on many levels, up to and including killing you?
>>9884252>sociopaths wouldn't survive>sociopaths are thrivingHow low is your testosterone ?
>>9884389Smart sociopaths are thriving. Dumb sociopaths are in prison. Smart people in general are doing fine though.
>>9884373A few managed to weasel their way through.If they stay covert they can be quite successful after-all.Just like most Europeans were lactose intolerant before humans started settling and drinking milk. Their numbers greatly reduced when humans started drinking more milk but still there are some lactose intolerant inferiors around weaseling their way into our ranks like sociopaths.When will we cull them?
>>9884389If sociopaths didn't get the support that they need because they would live in a society with a majority of sociopaths during human's early times they wouldn't survive.If a sociopath lost their social support at the age of 12 right now they wouldn't survive.They thrive because their families do love them, even if they know. They thrive because they manipulate people to give them the support that they need in order to survive.And my testosterone has any bearing on my outlook on sociopaths how?I'm thinking that you have this phase where you think it's cool to be a sociopath....and manly.You see the way I grew up taught me that the most dangerous people are the ones who don't look for fights and don't show their alpha status wherever they go. And are very very good friends also when they let you in. Not sociopaths.Being a sociopath is literally a disorder, a disorder that is also incurable. Personality can't be fixed and if one has a personality retardation aka sociopathy the best way for them is to lie low.By the time they are in their late 40's they are usually very lonely and bitter and burned out people.
>>9884456>By the time they are in their late 40's they are usually very lonely and bitter and burned out people.Being an /r9k/ faggot I know a lot of men in their 20's who are already lonely, bitter and burned out because they acted like beta bitches and were abused by their normon peers.Had they been sociopathic and knew how to screw people over for their own good a lot of them could've had better lives. Fuck off.
>>9884423>a fewYou're legit retardedSociopaths are the tribe leaders, they always manipulate their way to the top and have been doing so for the last hundreds of thousands of years. It seems you've got anti-social people who cannot work in groups confused with sociopaths who perfectly manipulate groups to suite their agendas.
>>9884456>I'm thinking that you have this phase where you think it's cool to be a sociopath....and manly.Nah, it's after you get tired being emotionally manipulated by other sociopaths and horrible people trying to keep you down. You wish you can just turn off empathy and focus on your own self-improvement.
>>9884491This, he literally got r9k confused with sociopaths. Imagine being this dumb.
>>9884491Surely there were and are high IQ sociopaths who do that.In an ancient tribes who reproduces the most? The leader with his 10+ wives. If the leaders were always sociopaths, there would be more sociopaths today.In a small society at around dunbars number, it becomes very easy to spot a sociopath. We are talking tribes where everybody knows everybody from the day they are born.
>>9884513>In an ancient tribes who reproduces the most? The leader with his 10+ wives. If the leaders were always sociopaths, there would be more sociopaths today.You act like tribal times were this peaceful "Kumbaya" singing times when it was incredibly violent. Sociopaths prospered during tribal times, the only reason their numbers are low is because you need gullible, naive and easily manipulated people to serve the sociopath.Again I reiterate you have sociopaths confused with anti-socials.
>>9884077They aren't necessarily smarter, most end up in prison.
>>9884532Of course they were incredibly violent times. The tribe could be attacked at any moment.If at such moment a sociopath is among your ranks who puts its own well being above the survival of the tribe, he is found out.The high risk and constant violence is what makes it easier to spot the sociopath.
>>9884551I'm convinced you're a sociopath at this point.
>>9884486Wait.So there are only 2 ways to live in your opinion?Way to go.Either you are a sociopath or a beta male that let's people abuse him.That is bitterness speaking and hurt and a need for revenge. That's also not the way to build yourself up.Dogmatic thinking and black and white view of the world will hopefully leave you when you see that there are other ways to be happy.Sociopaths are not a bunch of happy people.That lack of empathy and often narcissism leads to them not knowing themselves.Yes they manipulate people that don't recognize them and yes they are ruthless most of the times.But they are also more prone to addictions, especially gambling, high risk behaviors and suicide.I have no idea why you think anyone would be better off being a sociopath.
>>9884551A sociopath is able to manipulate anyone who has empathy by tugging their heartstrings to his advantage. I've noticed myself that the people who talk most about empathy, who claim it's this amazing thing are nearly always sociopaths.
>>9884573They are betas wishing they had the balls to fuck over people around them.They don't know what being a man means.
>>9884573>I have no idea why you think anyone would be better off being a sociopath.Because you want less competition clearly.Too many sociopaths and you won't have anyone to manipulate.
>>9884498I get that. And being assertive and respecting yourself is the way to go.Also focusing your empathy only on people who deserve it.Give people only 1 chance to screw up, and when they do the second time...burn the bridge. Eventually you will be left with people who deserve to be with you.
>>9884612People who constantly praise empathy as this great thing have no idea what it's like to be an empath. I never consented to feel what other people feel, yet it's constantly thrust upon me.
>>9884585>>who claim it's this amazing thing are nearly always sociopathsVery good observation and true.Sociopaths learn to manipulate not like normal people do.Meaning everyone can manipulate other people, sociopaths need to learn it by observation of behavior, because they lack that "intuition" or the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes.So they usually do a lot of very conventional shit.Like talking about empathy and good energy, because they observed that it works.They also will use guilt trips more than anything because they,again, observed that it works.And will declare friendship and support and "always having your back" faster than anyone else you know.Again, because they know it works.My grandmother was a sociopath and funny enough my mother in law is too. Women, go figure. But with my grandmother I learned how to deal with it. And what the red flags are.Also, in my opinion sociopathic women are way more dangerous than men.,
>>9884659From an empaths point of view.It can be very draining constantly being in tune with the emotions of others, not just in regards to being manipulated. I can only find peace when I am alone, so much so that I prefer to live in solitude because I just feel too much of other people's emotions when I do deal with them.You're probably not a sociopath, but I think you're in the middle ground. You need to consider the other extreme in your analysis. I'm ultimately just as an oddball as the sociopath, you really need the optimum amount of empathy, it's not a binary.
>>9884628For that, seriously, you have to learn to concentrate that empathy and fast.You probably know already at least some people that you can trust. Feel for them only.You are able to convince yourself that you don't care about other people that these chosen few. Also it will get easier with time. I know it sounds impossible, but it's completely doable.And when a person that you trusts breaks your trust, fuck them and burn the bridge.I have a rule of 1 chance. I forgive fuckups once(and I'm talking about stab inthe back type of duck up). Second time and I lose that person number.For that also you need to respect yourself. I'm not saying think that you are better than everyone, but know what you are good at and be proud of it. That will help you to seewho is worth and who isn't worth spending time with you.
>>9884689I'm not a sociopath, trust me. I help people all the time.I have a rule: I never lie, ever. Not even a white lues.As you can guess I don't have many friends.I was helping my family to the point that I had a mental breakdown. Gave so much that I literally had nothing to give...and I came out of it with that mindset I just outlined.Concentrate your empathy on only few people, convince yourself(fucking like to yourself) that you don't care about strangers.Learn to say no. And have a 1 fuck up rule.I am a happy camper. I don't need to manipulate or lie as I really don't like it(I learn it though very well from my grandmother)Don't wait until you break. It took me years but when I broke I was really bad.
>>9884456Listen up woman, kids will be fine if they are supported. If you love them but don't protect and support them it means nothing.Love in a weak pathetic vessel means nothing.Also fucktard, logical parent do care for their offspring even if they do not love them.Those that base their action on feeling are unstable and dangerous, especially for those under their domain.
>>9884747Listen fucktardI was responding to your retarded comment here:>>9884389That retarded comment was a response to what I wrote here >>9884252And I understand that you may have problems with reading comprehension and I apologize for not lowering myself to your level and writing a summary but I basically said that sociopaths would indeed die off if they did not have support that we all need.>>womanProjecting much dickhead?
Why the fuck did you post this on biz OP?
Thats a psychopath not a sociopath you fucking pajeets
>>9884896The problem is that these definitions are not clear cut.In my opinion psychopath/sociopath are, like borderline personality disorder, diagnosis of "fuck if I know".There are spectrums and they also include people that don't belong in any of these.DSM is talking only about behaviors in diagnostics, right?There are huge problems with that, and we still don't have neuro science developed enough to be able to actually link these disorders to CNS changes/ problems.So the community is tucked and has to assign people somehow...and the choices are few and in between.
>>9884896Btw...it's Antisocial Personality Disorder.Sociopath/psychopath is what doctors use anyway, but officially its APD...
>>9884016The thing with not having emotions is that instead of making you a highly productive work robot you just become a lazy depressive slob who only does things that he absolutely has to. Insecurities and passions are important for becoming successful. Unless your issue is that you keep donating money to a sick family member, this is a flawed perspective.
>>9884543This isn't true, being a sociopath does not mean you are automatically a criminal anon
Low emotional response combined with antisocial or asocial behavior exists on a spectrum. The people who are too far off either end of it will never see any benefit for themselves or the people they do want to involve themselves with.
>>9884016>why are sociopaths looked down onbecause they lower the whole of society including their own surrounding conditions by just existing
>>9885115this t b hany discussion on sociopathy or psychopathy is pointless, because every retard feels compelled to offer his own definition of the termit doesn't help the dark triad traits are so attractive to women, so half of the posters in these topics are retards who argue sociopaths are manipulative geniuses and masters of the world as a proxy way to brag about how they see themselves, "at-least-if-i-cared-enough-to-use-my-superior-intelligence-for-that-purpose, and-boy-aren't-these-guys-dumb-for-not-getting-i'm-talking-about-me"
>>9885115>>low emotional response combined with Antisocial behaviorI'm not sure if that describes antisocial personality disorder aka psychopath/sociopath.They happen to, often , have pretty overblown emotional responses,simple anger and behavioral problems with early lack of remorse and empathy, true. But anger and anxiety, oversexed behavior and dopamine rush seeking are, emotional responses>>spectrumAnd here we completely agree, but, sadly not many people do.DSM is shot imho if it comes to APD and Borderline disorders.I'm not a clinicist but from what I hear the "spectrum" is being blocked ie: it's a 0-1 choice. Did that change?
Problem for sociopaths is impulse control and boredom. High iq sociopaths are great for jobs where low empathy is useful like heart surgeons.
>>9885165I think sociopath/psychopath meme started with movies. They look smart, collected and well badass. And the grass is always greener on the other side, so it's underdeveloped personalities that try to convince themselves that they are badass aka sociopath....The DSM IV has a very specific criteria for that diagnosis. Being badass and collected is not one of them. Manipulative asshole without remorse(although remorse is not a behavior btw), and instant gratification need yeah. But in movies man! They are almost God like.Also the Aristotelian logic that we all grew up on seems emotions inferior to logic (somewhat), add to that the fact that women are more emotional and that's all the reasons for the glorification of asocial manipulators.
Its funny how in these kind of threads there is always anons thinking sociopathy is some superpower and ALL people in high places have it.You are deifying your rulers by assuming they have this "superpower" to subconsciously justify to yourself why you yourself are not in a position of power yourself since you do not have the superpower.
BTW, the Chinese have found that certain facial traits correlate higher with sociopathy. Something I had suspected for long, but which currently in the West is a no-go touchy feely subject.I think it was eyes closer together and a smallish mouth (forgot the word but looks a bit pointy).
Also, I think sociopaths get used just as often. For example, in politics, sociopaths are often used by the elite because they can lie without impunity, The Clintons would be good examples.Doesn't mean all elites are sociopaths.
>>9885355Link? Pretty please...that is fascinating.>>9885362I said this earlier: when you know who you are dealing with an antisocial personality especially comorbid with narcissism is super easy to manipulate.And their reactions are predictable much more than the reactions of regular people.I got into mental health sciences because of sociopaths in my family desu so they sometimes are useful.
>>9885399Tell us more. Can you give examples of how they are easily manipulated?
>>9885519Antisocial personalities come often with a narcissistic personality disorder.They don't have to but it often coexist.Personality disorders generally mean that the personality is underdeveloped.Bear with me this is important.Narcissist and sociopaths live outside themselves, they don't analyze their inner self, because they don't really have it.in simple words: they don't know who they are but they know how people see them.Pride, overconfidence, and anger are very very common.You can't get to their emotions, right?But you can manipulate them by showing them how good it will look to people when they do something that benefits you.If they happen to have high IQ you have to be subtle, with brainless it's much easier.So, let's say you want for them to loan you money(that is usually very hard on them)You tell them that :1) you are so much less successful then them(pride), you have a rough patch(no effect, they dgaf), and everyone knows how generous they are, and you already told so and so that you are going to ask them. You understand if their situation is not as good as people say, cause shit happens(pride, anger) so you'll understand if they can't, but you are in such a need that you have to ask.You have an option to borrow it from so and so, but they are not as good of a friend and you always feel like you can count on them and only them.You don't appeal to empathy. You appeal to an inflated ego that has a need to be recognized as a great person.Sociopaths without the narcissistic personality are a little tougher but they are also underdeveloped personality wise and also live through the eyes of others.But for them people who are better off than them matter most.So you use people that you know they want to look good for.Give me an example and i will explain to you how and why. It's important to understand who they are. These are simple creatures, really. Not simplistic and not stupid, simple.
>>9884016Take Zoloft. Goodbye emotions. It's wonderful actually.
>>9885399https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602955/neural-network-learns-to-identify-criminals-by-their-faces/Funny thing is people already know this subconsciously.
>>9886225This is fascinating. Thank you!
>>9886225Although it reminds me of phrenology(well I'm pretty sure it stems from that school of thought.Also...it's our pattern recognition(aka stereotypes) that allows us to do it.That is also a reason why profiling works so well.
You guys are literally retarded for confusing psychopaths with sociopaths. You aren't "born " with sociopathy, you are born a fucking psychopath. Sociopaths are capable of feeling love while psychopaths are not. You turn out to be a sociopath while you develop and not because you are born with it. Psychopathy on the other hand cannot be influenced. You either are one or not.
>>9885399Hit me up with an email. I have some verry old documents about facial/body traits that might interest you in your studies.
>>9885211The clinical diagnoses are based off of collections of traits, but that ignores individuals that could present traits conditionally or don't present most of them.It's difficult to know what to believe when it comes to mental health, considering nobody has ever truly known what someone else has thought.
>>email@example.comPlease do!I really am inyerested.Phrenology for "debunked" but that debunking never really convinced me.And it didn't because of personal reasons(yeah...very fucking scientific)When I see people with certain facial features I just know what their personality probably is and I'm rarely wrong....but never really researched it of course.Like a low forehead...I always think that a person is not that smart and usually money oriented. I have an idea why I think so( experience and culture that I was brought up in) but still, I'm often very right.I promise not to generalize that anecdotal evidence though....maybe.>>9886391Give me diagnostic criteria for distinguishing a psychopath and sociopath and I'll admit that I'm completely wrong and was reading DSMIV(that lumps them together as antisocial personality disorder) wrong.From what I learned personality disorders are something you are born with.Both sociopathy and psychopathy are personality disorders....that's another tidbit.
>>9886487I completely agree with you here.I wrote above that lumping sociopaths/psychopaths into APD and treating it as 0-1 choice and not a spectrum is absolutely stupid. Thx to that APD and Borderline PD are treated by lazy psychiatrists as "fuck if I know" type of diagnosis and thus lump together people who don't belong together.I think these are all spectrums...they all stem from underdeveloped personality/genetics? but are not the same.
>>9884062or they convinced others to die for them since they were unemotional enough to handle the often brutal sacrifices to make. i believe its also strange to put labels of modern day psychology onto civilizations of thousands of years ago. the dms5 would apply to everybody most likely because of how brutal life was back then.
>>9884016Its simple, people feel threatened by us if/when they find out, and also we are very egoistic and narcissistic and usually bully people >t. diagnosed with ASPD
>>9884269>t. 115 iq brainlet