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>Please read the FAQ before posting in the thread (always updating)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PpDyjw2LDxbupdvHMNsBUOBVB66Lzwf44RM1You1GDA/edit?usp=sharing
>Resources
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10uNmynwRn6CRc-OMqCeXmJwCNnEnd-vYi-7AQzSx74I/edit?usp=sharing
>Artist Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ESQ-1h4IRUivbGNaxJFxXyDU1lSv26xTmMdH0sDX7sU/edit?usp=sharing
>How to order from Vograce (now with video on how to set up files)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18UxKnpgrmeb82NnW5e4YIEX-eZ3zHt178Mp6i0A5gME/edit?usp=sharing
>Convention List (always WIP)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13o7hD5xS3sDqVptnTVGUlRae3ovEE-vPPST_QOrQwtM/
>IP taketowns (based on artists contribution, may or may not have been a one time thing, use as a guideline)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1696MDhNPhrZ0ySZhXkoJnGxb7l1OjW4JsVhu1wKvaWE
>AA Inspo (thanks anon!)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1D19QV9nHwaY8AaNiEXZAAkEhkBTSsb01?usp=sharing

If anyone else has inspo photos they'd like possibly added to the above link, email the account cgldrawfags@gmail.com

We have a discord!
If you want into the CGL AA discord, email graveweaverelf@gmail.com with a picture of your table or merchandise. It is not a jury, just to make sure you do cons.

Helpful etsy tips, holidays are a comin', good luck seagulls!
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Why are double sided acrylic charms such a fucking pain to make? I'm having so much trouble with them for some reason. I highly regret wanting to make them in the first place.
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>>10009730
What exactly are you have problems with?
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>>10009809
Not them but I can relate. Making two versions with the exact same silhouette can be a pain, I tend to struggle with the image being straight up front/back or a character. It's much easier to go for practically the same image but just with different facial expressions.
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>>10009656
Was pretty much just a dumbfuck kid and thought taking commissions through a storefront would be a good idea for some reason. Rediculously underpriced myself because overexcited to start making money with art, etc.

What followed was basically all the hallmarks of some dumbfuck kid not taking the platform seriously. I'd forget to mark old completed orders "shipped", just let the handful of disputes and etc. that popped up lapse so they'd get their $5 refund.. I often ignored etsy's messaging/dispute system and just apologized directly to people through fA/dA (from where I had redirected to the etsy). I only offered $5 and $8 commissions and made like ~$200 total.

This was like four years ago, but the shop termination email is pretty much "don't use etsy ever again, we'll just close your new account" so I haven't bothered trying even though I have actual merch and live off my art now.
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>>10009975
Did you move addresses, change PayPals, and get a new bank account? If not, there are other sites you can sell your merch on that honestly I think people prefer over Etsy. Tictail, Gumroad, etc.
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>>10009975
Dang to be honest I don’t think they’d really care again, but deff change up your payment accounts (maybe direct you the payment to a new PayPal if possible) new email, new name, new IP (new IP might be too extra desu) and I think you should have no problems. If they ever contact you just say you were a dumb underage kid.
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>>10009991
>>10010000
Lately I've been thinking about opening up a new paypal account and giving it a shot because new address, ip, bank, name variant I can use, etc.

The only thing I'm not sure of is they MIGHT have my ssn (I for the life of me cannot remember if they asked for it, and I think they require it now..?) and that'd be the nail in the coffin.. I'm obviously not about to commit that level of fraud just to sell bits of plastic with cute anime junk printed on them. In the end I might just have to give up on that sweet normie traffic and focus on building a bigger social media following.
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What does it mean when you get off the waitlist of a juried con?
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>>10010122
They didn’t think you were great, but you’re good enough.
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>>10009975
God I would at least try. I thought this was going to be about violating copyright take downs but it seems like you just didn't understand the platform in the slightest so the chance of you fucking up again is very low.

It's not like they have people just patrolling looking for this, even REAL scammers have to get reported again so if you can build a good reputation again you'll probably be fine. Even if they do discover it's you some how down the line you might be able to say look, I've been doing well because i was an idiot before
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How do you navigate alibaba for t-shirt sublimination printing? Everytime I ask a seller if they can do more than one design I get a "no thanks" reply, help?
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>>10010274
Seconding this. I'm looking to move into apparel and I have no idea what I'm fucking doing.
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>>10010309
This wouldn't be so frustrating if shirts weren't 25 usd per piece when they're made in the states or 3 bucks a piece but a minimum order of ten thousand pieces when ordering from china. Like where are people just starting out supposed to go?
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>>10010318
Is it really 25 bucks where you are? I've been able to get really nice local printed (screen print not sub dye) shirts for like 8ish depending on what's going on with the design through the university print shop (meant for clubs and teams and stuff).
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>>10010318
People have been really spoiled by chinese manufacturing. They require high moq because they only want corporate customers. They do not want small artists who are just starting out as customers, because there is no money for them there. The trend of small time artists manufacturing these kinds of merchandise is really recent, and many of these companies don't feel obligated to support them, because it doesn't benefit them. Particularly when small time artists can potentially be such difficult customers as well. Low moq is a precious gift of this era and should never be taken for granted.
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>>10010274
>>10010318
Just do some middleman dropshipping service like printful or something, where t-shirts are around ~8-12 dollars. You can put them up in your online store or if you want to have physical stock for a con you can just order some for yourself and then bump the price up to $20 or more.

T-shirts are a much more "luxury" item compared to just some keychains or whatever, so getting a super low price with a low MOQ is usually impossible, or if you find one the quality is disgusting. Just accept it.
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>>10010497
Don't know where you got your prices from, but on printful's site it's around 38 dollars for a full print shirt
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>>10010274
Don't bother, find a local print service. It's expensive but that's the only way you're going to get low minimums, and you don't have to worry about art theft. You can try Jak prints or Digital art wear in the US. What most people are doing right now is using arts co but it's just as expensive unless you catch one of their sales.

Like others mentioned, it's better to start with screen printed shirts, you can get them done much cheaper
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Right now I ship stickers as packages with tracking but I've gotten complaints from people that the shipping price is too high (after already buying it...) I'm thinking of switching to just sending them in normal envelopes w/o any tracking and offering free shipping. Has anyone tried this/did it cause problems?
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>>10010531
And then it would cause people to complain because their stickers got bent. There's no winning. You'll never please anyone. Stick to the packages imo.
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>>10010172
That's good to hear? Not sure what I would have to improve on to get in though.
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>>10010531
as long as you put like 2 thick pieces of cardstock or chipboard or something in the envelope itll work. i charge a dollar for shipping that way and never had issues.
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>>10010559
Variety, presentation, luck.
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>>10010318
Meh, I've paid 35 or more for t shirts I really like. As long as it looks like the design is more than just a logo slapped on, then it will sell. Some people can appreciated indie shirts compared to generic Wal-Mart shirts.
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>>10010122
Jury anon here again!
How our process works is we do an initial weeding that basically amounts to two piles of, "This looks alright or better" or, "Well that's shit." After that we do a second round with the rubric, and anything that scores well on 4/5 sections on the rubric makes it to The Table.

On The Table all the portfolios are spread out so we can see one page of work from each artist at a glance. Then we commence culling down to the actual number of tables we have based on making sure we have a variety of fandoms, art styles, and merchandise types.

Anyone who makes it to the table gets put on the waitlist. The first work pulled from The Table is at the bottom of the waitlist, and the person who gets culled last is at the top of the waitlist. Generally, the last ten or so artists culled take as much time to debate as the rest of the jury process combined because at that point they're ALL great, we just don't have enough table space.

So if you're at the top of a waitlist, it means someone cancelled last minute and we got to pull in an artist we loved anyways. If you're at the bottom of a waitlist, it means we had competing dates with another con and all our faves left us for the other con and you're good enough I guess. (both cases are things that have happened)

But of course that's only one con's perspective.
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>>10010682
Thanks Jury anon! This was super helpful to know

I've never applied to a juried con before and was thinking of starting now that I have more work on my plate.
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>>10010554
It's a tricky situation to be sure. I sell decals and I've had people bitch because the shipping is higher than their tiny decal, because I offer sizes from 3 inches to 11 on most decals and have to put everything under the same shipping price of $3 for a rigid mailer. That said, a few people have asked me to standard mail small decals and I've never heard of one arriving bent in 3 years now. I use a 6x8 mailer and fold it over. It seems sturdy enough.
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>>10010122
Different jury anon than before. For the con I'm on the jury of, everyone is scored based on quality of art, variety of merch etc. When people who were outright accepted drop out, we replace it with the next person in line from the waitlist.
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Why do people ask you to sign your prints? Do any of you ever stamp them with your signature?
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>>10011170
>Why do people ask you to sign your prints?
?????
Buddy you realize a lot of people are there to meet artists a bit like they are celebrities right? If you bought a print from a legit famous artist and then got to meet them you might ask them to sign it, wouldn't you? Plus if you got famous the print would be worth more in ebay. Just sign it, a stamp isn't the same thing at all.
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>>10010682
I wish more juries were run the way your con runs things. I had inside info from my local big convention that they judge on a rubric but each jury member just takes a different batch of applicants, so someone might get judged differently just depending on the juror that got them. So getting off the waitlist might mean nothing in those cases. Wish more cons put in the effort like you guys do.
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>>10011170
It's a really nice and personal touch to add to a print, a stamp seems impolite to me Just keep a sharpie on hand, its a good customer experience that will make people remember you and your art more.
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i hate signing prints because i haven't bothered to design a signature yet.... i just... write my artist moniker in plain letters lol.......

anyway general question: does anyone bother to sign/number all their prints? does anyone mess around with limited prints/merch in general?
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>>10011230
That counts as a signature, not all signatures have to be super aesthetic and squiggly. The fact that you write it by hand and do it the same every time is enough to classify it as a signature, so don't stress it.
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>>10011230
Your fans don't care if you have the signature of the gods or if you have doctor handwriting. They just care that you took the time to sign their merch when they asked. That's what makes it special.
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I'm vending at a furry con. This and more is the vendor's free dinner.
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>>10011311
I talked to others and apparently other furry cons do the same. I wish anime cons did this. We are normally lucky of they even give us free water
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>>10010514
Yeah, I found a local business that does screen-printed t-shirts with a 10 shirt minimum, but if I hadn't bothered calling all the local places I would never have found them. They do use prison labor though, so they've got a bunch of bad reviews online, but I'm just laughing at the idea of prisoners having to look at my weeb shit.
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this was posted yesterday. 3 artists on making money from your webcomics. there's a convention section. thoughts?
https://d3hrgtnftymn2l.cloudfront.net/MakingMoneyfromWebcomics2018.pdf
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>>10011350
fixed link
http://sarjakuvakeskus.fi/blogi/1097-webcomics
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>>10011170
i prefer signatures on my prints (not signed at-con, tho, written on the actual image) because im uncomfortable owning mystery art even if i literally paid for it. call it a neurose of mine
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>>10011311
I wonder if this is because the furry community is more insular? like everyone kind of knows everyone (or knows someone who knows etc.) and pretty much everyone involved is going to be a furry, compared to how many normies you get vending/attending your average anime/comic con.
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>>10011311
I might switch to doing only furry cons in the near future. The customers are so much easier to deal with and the cons just treat artists so damn well. People are willing to spend triple digits on a commission. I love you, furries.
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>>10011395
Literally what the duck was this about
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>>10011631
you can't direct link to the pdf
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Hey could I get some help?
When i had my first con a year ago i came on here to ask for some advice which helped me to x3 what i earn at Cons. It's not much but at least i break even and make a little profit so i'm really grateful for that. After a year of doing Cons (5 in total) i've noticed that i'm reeeally bad at engaging with the customer. I usually just look up and smile and then look down again. Also i have a really bitchy face expression and when i smile it looks like i'm in pain (at least to me lol). Is there anything i can do about it? I'm thinking of dressing up and just hand them a flyer when they are at my table and say "feel free to bother me if you need anything" and then do something else, but is this okay to do?
Also i tried out different merchandise throughout that year but what worked best for me are buttons and prints. I've only tried out mini prints for now and have like ~25. And buttons around ~40. My buttons are mostly original and a good half of my Prints are original too. All other Prints are from a bit niche fandoms (like south park for example and various games). Should i expand to bigger fandoms? Or start offering bigger prints? Or try to continue with different merch? I tried out charms for example, but they didn't really worked for me as of now (granted i only have 4 big charms and 6 small charms).
I would extremly appreciate any sort of advice or insight and i'm sorry for any english mistakes.
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>>10011866
I wouldn't recommend handing them something. I always get really annoyed if someone tries to hand me anything unless I've asked for it first. But letting them know that they can bother you if they need something is not a bad move. I know you want the flyer as a sort of lead in to speaking but just saying "Let me know if you need any help" is perfectly fine. A lot of customers don't actually want to engage with you, because they know you're trying to sell them stuff; they just want to know you're available if they decide to buy.

As for your other questions, I sell niche stuff too so I can't really help there. Obviously you can make some money if you identify the flavor of the month things and make one or two items for that, but you have to be pretty limber and really stay on top of it, so it can be exhausting, and bad calls can end in tons of unsellable merch. Its so much more satisfying IMO to make the things that I like, connect with the fans who like the same obscure stuff that I like, even if I'm not making 100k a year.

You could also consider moving into "original" aesthetic stuff? Succulents, cute animals, witchcraft, etc. Broadens your audience a bit without relying on a fandom, and doesn't require you to go full OC and all the drawbacks that come with trying to market original works.
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In your opinion which online store is better Esty, Store envy or Tical? I've heard mixed things about them, I think it was Esty I heard that if you recently made an account you get a charge from your sales but if you're a long time member you don't have to worry about that.

Do any of you have an amazon store front or just stick to what's above?
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I have a question. I’m going to be boothing/guesting at a con soon (I’m a cosplayer). What kinds of products, other than prints and stickers, do you think would be a good idea for me to sell?
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>>10012067
Poll your followers.
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>>10011879
Is it alright for me to say "please tell me if you need anything" even when they don't look me in the eyes? Most of the time people would just look down to the table instead of me so our eyes never really match.

I never really considered aesthetic stuff before, that's actually a pretty great idea anon. There doesn't seem to be a list with all possible aesthetic stuff somewhere that i can look at doesn't it? Otherwise i just have to think about it myself i guess lol! Thank you so much for your help!
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>>10012237
it's impossible to list all aesthetic stuff, literally anything can be 'aesthetic' if it's pleasing to the viewer's eye
but common convention aesthetics include kawaii, pastel goth, straight up goth, steampunk, galaxy, and lgbt pride
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>>10012067
If you have enough time/enough followers you could do a con-exclusive pin
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>>10011525
Wow. Back when I first started doing commissions around 2000 (oldfag here), I started with furry boards online and made bank. And I mean innocent content too. Furries must earn decent salaries.
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Curious how many of you have gotten prints with a foil finishing layer and if it pays off. It seems popular for prints online, but are people willing to pay more for a limited run of foil prints at a con?
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>>10011170
I like it because I value the artists I purchase from. I also have a fine art background and it is common practice there.

Although if you or any other artists sign the front, please practice. I have one set of prints that I regret having signed because the signature is so ugly and large and totally does not match the artwork on the print.
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i read the first faq and i'm still confused on how to size acrylic key charms i plan on making. what's your usual canvas size when you draw them? do the suppliers resize it for you when they receive it or...?
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>>10012631
I draw on 3000px squared, but you can just draw them at the size you want them to be? Just remember to set the proper resolution beforehand. And worst case scenario, yes, most suppliers will resize it for you but be prepared for inconsistency or not having exactly what you envisioned.
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How do I not suck at social media?

No matter what website I'm on I'm a nobody talking to an empty void. Twitter is the worst of it
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>>10012779
proactively engage with people. im not likely to interact with a rando's art, but if that rando is a follower who frequently comments and retweets/reblogs/otherwise engages with me first, i'll remember their username and avatar and will often return the favor
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>>10012779
I feel like Twitter is easiest when you have people you know who are already active on it. When I first started using Twitter in earnest, I was lucky to have friends who were already established on there. They would @ me and RT my art and their followers which in turn helped me gain a comfortable following. Having your Twitter handle listed on your business cards and handing them out at cons helps too. If customers post pictures of my booth or merch they bought from me, I make sure to RT and thank them! You gotta engage to have engagement back.
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>>10012795
>Twitter is easiest when you have people you know who are already active on it

And here lies the main problem with Twitter. Get lucky and be friends with someone that is popular
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>>10012796
I guess this depends on your definition of "popular"? Most of my friends had like 1k-ish followers when I first started out which isn't super amazing by Twitter standards. What matters is that you're constantly interacting with other artists. Do you like and RT other artists' tweets? Do you @ them regularly? This is how I ended up making mutuals who also engage with my tweets thus increasing my visibility on that platform.
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>>10012796
> Get lucky and be friends with someone that is popular

People with attitudes like this never get any where. Focusing on only popular people means you will ignore your actual peers and while they slowly gain popularity by doing their thing and being friends with each other you are left in the dust by chasing popular artists who already have a friend circle.
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>>10012901
NAYRT but it's very difficult to control your own visibility on twitter without relying on mutuals so heavily

Instagram and tumblr have a more reliable tag system where you can put yourself out there easier than twitter
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Where do you guys get critique that isn't the discord server in OP?
I don't do cons but I'm just struggling with what I should focus on to improve my art atm.
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>>10013065
Friends or the AANI discord on rare occasion. But usually friends.
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not the original person that brought it up but.. yeah, my problem with twitter is that i have zero friends. zero. nada. not even irl non-art friends. no online friends. i just try to draw and do my thing but it's sad and isolating to try and perform whatever witty banter by yourself. and it feels weird to try and interact with anyone with the slightest bit of following, even if i am leaving a comment that feels genuine to me i feel like i look kissassy and desperate. the 6 followers that i do have i must have gotten by pure luck.
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>>10013087
build up a following on other sites that require less interaction and promo your twitter there, then.
Even if you don't have 'friends' surely you have people you've interacted with at cons and been friendly with? i have a bunch of popular mutuals on twitter just from artists that i've traded with (or they've bought my prints and vice versa) and chatted with for 5 minutes at a con.
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>>10013090
guess i should say i'm new to tabling. meeting people is part of my motivation. fingers crossed.
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>>10013044
Not that anon either, but personally I've found that Twitter has the biggest payout when it comes to social media. I use Twitter, Tumblr, and IG and despite the tagging system and having a fairly decent number of followers, Tumblr always has the lowest engagement for me. This is a recent development though. Tumblr used to be pretty okay in terms of how many notes I received but it seems like it's really hard to get any sort of engagement as of late? Other art friends seem to agree.

I actually have less followers on IG than I do on Tumblr but I get way more consistent engagement on my posts. Twitter I get the most engagement and also quite a bit of my store sales come directly from Twitter. (I think I made almost $4k in sales of a new item I advertised on Twitter recently.) Most of the people who use Tumblr tend to be tweens so I would get notes but not as many people buying as a result of the notes. Whereas if you can get visibility on your tweet, it translates directly into more sales.

So even though Twitter is the hardest out of the three to gain traction in, imo it's also worth the effort.
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i just miss deviantart and neopets and cozy oekaki boards and tegaki-e and stuff like that. i don't get the feeling of community from the internet anymore, it's all hustle and try to increase your own numbers and following. i guess we're all adults with bills now, so it's understandable. life sucks.
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>>10013122
The stuff you're talking about existed on a much smaller internet scale too, since half of that shit existed before broadband became widespread.

But I agree, I still think about that one French oekaki board I shat about on while I was in college with great fondness.
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>>10013122
>i just miss deviantart and neopets and cozy oekaki boards and tegaki-e and stuff like that.
then go back to it? Idk what those last two things are, but the first two are alive and active.
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>>10013109
As (at least, it sounds like you are) an artist on the more popular side, do you find it a bit awkward if random people start @ing you/replying to you/otherwise trying to engage with you?

I'm never sure how to start interacting on Twitter, so I sometimes just comment but it always feels a bit awkward coming out of the blue. I don't purposely "target" popular artists--they just happen to be the ones I admire--but I wonder if I'm just coming off as "this rando who keeps commenting on my pics." I just want to create meaningful online friendships sigh
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>>10013143
I mean as long as you aren't being weird in my DMs or pestering me about my sources, I think it's cool! It's just like interacting with people on any other social media website. I actually really appreciate it when followers leave replies on my Tweets because it drives up visibility for my art! Plus as >>10013122 brought up, I think it helps add to the feeling of community. I've actually followed back smaller artists and non-artists if they frequently engage me on Twitter.

I think it only gets really uncomfortable if you start namedropping people in your tweets for attention (I've totally seen this happen) or you start DM-ing artists you don't really know to try to act buddy-buddy with them when they just consider you a casual acquaintance/fan (Also have seen this happen). If you're just leaving comments like "I adore your use of color in this piece!" or "I love this!" or "I saw you at ___ con! Love your stuff!" I don't think anyone would see that as weird. I also frequently try to post polls and WIPS to encourage my followers to talk to me and give me input on what kind of art and product they would like to see from me. So it's a GOOD thing if you comment on Twitter. That's what artists want.
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>>10013044
True, but again you should be making friends/mutuals with your peers instead of focusing only on popular people is what i'm saying. Like if you have 500 followers but won't bother befriending other people with 500 followers and bemoaning how you're not lucky enough to be friends with someone who has 10k followers. All the while, those 500 follower friends have 1k, 2k, etc and you're still at like 800 because you didn't think it was worth your time to befriend people your level.

>>10013143
It's not weird at all that's the point of twitter. like 75% of your tweets should probably be replies and interaction, not new posts to your wall. But as I said above, you need to also interact with people your level. Support each other and you'll become the next wave of "popular" artists.

Beyond the feel good stuff, it's seriously a numbers game. If I have 10k, 20k, etc.+ followers, on any given picture I could be getting tons of comments, I could have many dedicated followers like you all saying nice things to me. Many even spend money on me. Why would you stand out to befriend? That's why you can't just hope to be friends with popular people, even if we don't think it's weird (it's not!) just numerically we can't befriend every nice follower, it's impossible energy wise.
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>>10013151
nayrt, but the things you listed are generic comments relevant to being engaged as an artist and making sales and etc though, of course you want positive attention on your art. i don't think general asskissing like that nets new friendships, either, unless they stand out because nice art or good following. it's mutually pleasant but not really.. offering anything fun or interesting. but what about a fandom joke or thoughtful response to a daily life tweet, etc? do you like those sort of comments? that's the sort of thing where it brings into question if i'm being overly casual/friendly in a way that's offputting.. i understand that everyone's not interested in becoming buddies with everyone that follows them, so i want to respect that too.
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>>10013164
>but what about a fandom joke or thoughtful response to a daily life tweet, etc? do you like those sort of comments?

I do, but I understand that not everyone does! I think it's fairly easy to gauge what people are/aren't comfortable with if you've been following them for a while and see the sort of stuff they post. I mentioned the art stuff because that seemed most relevant to the thread. I actually disagree about the "asskissing" because I think you can generally tell when someone is asskissing vs genuinely interested in an uplifting community. I try to leave positive comments on my friends' art when I can - especially if they're releasing new merch or running Kickstarters! I've made a lot of mutuals from just being positive and receptive to their work.

I share day-to-day things on my Twitter as well and talk about fandom now and then so it's totally cool for someone to tweet those at me in response to something I've posted. For example, if I post about wanting to see a certain movie, acceptable comments might be along the lines of "Oh that one's really good, you should go!" or "I'd love to hear what you think after!" What I consider overtly friendly/uncomfortable is if a stranger responded with "I'll go with you! When/where?"

Fandom jokes are also fine if it makes sense in the context of what you're replying to. I wouldn't want people randomly @-ing me jokes and memes.

Other people might keep their feed to be more focused on art-only so they might not like banter as much if they don't actively share about their life online.

A good thing to keep an eye out for is if the tweet says something like "mutuals only"! Then you know that it's not appropriate for you to interact w/ that tweet unless you're a mutual etc. Like I've made tweets about wanting to hang out with mutuals and had completely random followers ask to meet up with me IRL which was incredibly uncomfortable on my end.
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>>10013164
>>10013166
Also re: fandom jokes... make sure that they're actually jokes and not just mean comments. I've seen a slew of people being rude to artists in an overfamiliar way because they think it's ajoke and that's what puts a lot of artists off. If you want to make rude jokes you have to have a certain level of friendship built up but if you're coming at it as a stranger than it's just rude and not funny.

For example, calling fanart of certain characters "trash" or mentioning how much you hate xyz character on a drawing of xyz character. Can be totally funny if done by friends you know well, will be super offputting if done by a random follower/acquaintance that you don't know at all.

Just interact with people genuinely. Ask if you're afraid of making someone uncomfortable. I've just straight up had kind people offer to bring me presents at cons who DMd me to ask me if that was okay/if they weren't overstepping any boundaries. I'd much rather have someone ask me what my boundaries are instead of trying to be buddy-buddy with me and failing.
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>>10013166
sorry about the asskissing comment.. i suppose that was uncalled for. general positivity always feels really contrived to me but i need to keep reminding myself that that's just my brain mucking up things making me a shit person. thanks for the advice and taking time to write all this stuff out, i'll keep it in mind.
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>>10013160
Why do you assume I'm chasing popular artists only and not bothering with those with less? I only mention that it seems the way many people gain a following is by being friends with someone with a lot of followers already. Every other way is incredibly hard and sometimes a bigger shot in the dark than other platforms because of its format.
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>>10013239
>it seems the way many people gain a following is by being friends with someone with a lot of followers already
Isn't this just your confirmation bias speaking?
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>>10013065
/ic/ draw thread has a 1 in 4 chance of being helpful

>>10013138
i wouldnt have said DA was active.
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>>10013087
Just wanted to say I’m in the same exact same boat as you.
I only have a few coworker friends who I avoid showing my anime art out of embarrassment.
I started posting doodles on IG/tumblr last year, went MIA for a few months and started posting more fanart stuff again like 4 months ago.
I HATE trying to interact with artists I like for the same reason. It all feels so inauthentic... I really admire the artists I follow, and I’m so grateful for handful of followers that like my shit every time but it’s so hard for me to figure out how to put myself out there without feeling like I’m being a shill.
>>
>>10013399
/ic/ is only helpful if you are incredibly awful or have notable flaws. Average artists get ignored, skilled artists get asked for their blogs.
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>>10013280
No it isnt but keep assuming things
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>>10013239
NAYRT but again, what do you assume is "a lot of followers"? As I mentioned earlier, most of my friends had ~1k or less followers when I initially joined Twitter. But we all do AA regularly (meaning we do several shows a year and not just like one or two) and have our Twitter listed on our business cards as well as our other social media. By constantly and actively engaging with each other's work and making Twitter friends through artists we traded with at cons now we have significantly more followers.

Do you actually actively post on your Twitter? Do you actively direct your audience toward your Twitter?
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>>10013087
aaaah yeah I'm also on a similar boat. I have exactly 2 irl friends on Twitter, neither of which I'm really that close with/have much in common so we don't interact much. So when I do try to post, or interact with other artists, it's actually quite lonely cause it feels very one-sided, and it just becomes tiring trying to keep going. Even when I post pieces I'm really proud of (and I'm not THAT bad of an artist...I hope haha) that might otherwise encourage people to interact back with me, I get idk, 1 like, or if I'm SUPER lucky, 10. It's just this cycle I guess that discourages me from posting/being more active. It probably all stems from this stupid need to be validated...
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>>10013555
Anon, try joining the /cgl/ AA discord or even the AANI discord. The /cgl/ discord has a list of social media for all the artists who go here and I've followed a bunch of fellow seagulls on Twitter.

Or try posting to places that have a better tagging system like Tumblr or IG and direct followers to your Twitter from there.
>>
My best method to meet and connect with artists on twitter is the same with people anywhere else:
>common interests
>common fandoms
>similar humor
>have mutuals
>don't ignore non-artists
>don't act like you have ulterior motives
I'm friends with artists with skill levels lower and higher than mine and non-artists who have introduced me to other artists or promoted me a lot. Share wips, join zines, RT merch and artists you like, be friendly and engaged. Avoid drama and maintain a friendly distance from "problematic" artists regardless of how popular they are.
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>>10013562
Different anon, but would it be a dumb move to join the cgl Discord if you posted your art here and everyone hated it?

I enjoy reading the AA thread, and I gain a lot of valuable information here, so I've always wanted to join the Discord. I don't want to set myself up for targeting though if gulls don't like my art (even though I've been improving since I posted).
>>
>>10013562
>better tagging systems like IG
So I shyed away from doing a wall of hashtags like most people suggest until a little while ago. I ended up getting a ton more interactions/followers from doing it but the other day one of my posts got shadowbanned (post didn’t show up under any hashtags, even unpopular ones), the next day I posted another thing and my hashtags worked again but it scared me.
I’d expect constantly using super popular tags like “dog” or “fitness” to eventually get you banned, but can posting your artwork under stuff like “illustration” or “anime” do that too??
>>
>>10013571
What is considered a "problematic" artist?
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>>10013239
Probably because you keep bringing it up. I mean i'm not sure which person you are but i literally just outlined how to do it without chasing popular people, it's not a shot in the dark at all. Connect and support your peers. You eventually become the next cohort of popular people. That's how it works. You think the same 27 year old artists will never give way to the next wave of 22 year olds who then give way to the next wave of 16 year olds?

(The ages aren't that important, just saying that this stuff happens in waves, nothing is set in stone)

I just feel like people expect popularity to just fall on their lap, when in reality for 98% of people it's after a very obvious long and consistent, well documented stint of frequent content production and socialization before they can get some where so they don't have to post so often as they once did. You see them at the current stage but didn't see when they were hustling.
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>>10013576
I mean I feel like everyone on the discord is pretty civil. Everyone's got names and their brand identity attached to their discord accounts so no one is going to drag you like they do here. Anonymity often lets people be nasty in the threads. You might get some honest critique in the discord but no one is going to go out of their way to be nasty to you.
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>>10013592
It's for you to gauge, I couldn't think of a better word lol but toxic might be better. Don't burn bridges but don't get hurt either.
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>>10013592
Nayrt but I wouldn’t get too involved with artists who constantly spew political opinions, even if you agree with them. Or artists who throw shade/are constantly negative about things. Not just for “reputation” but to also surround yourself with positivity.
>>
>>10011866
What was the advice you got that helped you earn x3 at cons? That sounds interesting.
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>>10013087
Treat it like a shop Twitter or convert it into one, anon. Just be like "I'm working on some new charms! They'll be released 7-11." Show progress pics of art or new merchandise, talk about coupons or potential sales, do contests or "Retweet this and tell me your favorite character from x show to potentially win a free item" and things like that.

I'm in a similar boat where I just very recently lost all my asshole friends. I still have plenty of offline ones, but my online ones actually actively trash me. I really empathize with having "A twitter I just banter on to myself" since my old personal was like that so I just deleted it. I'd probably just deactivate it or convert it to something else if I were you, but don't even try to banter with yourself because it'll just make you feel awful.

Maybe just make a new shop Twitter you keep pretty cool and professional. You might just get some fans which is a great way to build back to being social. It's a kind of a fun one-sided, no commitment type of relationship to have with people. They tend to look up to you on top of it. I know I really love the feeling after burning through a toxic group that just looked down at me.
>>
So who are some of the newer or lesser known artists/store fronts that you think have potential to be the next big thing? Who might be the next Saikimichan or Omocat? Can be for prints, clothing, charms, acrylic/enamel pins ect
I’m curious to see everyone’s predictions!
>>
>>10013087
The 'trick' I've found to getting more interactions is to be generous with my likes and follows (at least at first). Interact with the fellow fans in your chosen fandom and by that, I emphasize non-artists. Who is going to RT your stuff? Mostly non-artists (well, unless you're someone like krenz).

I also found that most of my art mutuals are gained at cons, where we can chat face to face first. I usually bring up a 'Hey, do you have social media? Twitter?' and then we exchange follows on the spot. Twitter- or any social media platform for the matter- grows kinda exponentially? You start out slow, but at a certain point, the pace starts to pick up as your followers talk to their followers and so on. In the slow beginning, you have to remember to be diligent and pro-active.
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>>10013593
>tfw already most of the way to 27 but still have no artist friend circle or even a small but stable group of fans
Guess I'll just die lol

And I know popularity isn't the end all be all of art, it's just kind of a bummer. I admit I'm total garbage at social media-ing, so really I brought this upon myself.
>>
>>10013796
God sorry lol that's why i said the ages didn't matter that was just an abstract thing to show what i meant woops. 27 isn't too late for anything especially since lots of artists are now in their 30s, I believe in you anon!
>>
Is tracing cars, bikes, mechanical parts/ armor okay, especially when the original item is from a photo or canon in measurements? I feel like professional artists do it and might be more normal than I think but I’m not sure.
>>
>>10013768
What was the previous "thing" to Sakimi/Omocat? The thing is, I don't think there will be a "next" omocat or sakimi, because they already took those places. I think the thing that becomes big next will be something wholly unpredictable and will take a space that most wouldn't anticipate. Someone's not just going to rocket to popularity doing a cool new style of shirt or enamel pin. I think they will offer something totally unique and fill a space that most of us can't see, or we'd be filling it ourselves.
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>>10013826
Professional artists do this shit all the time. I try to skew the perspective and edit things so it's not 1:1 to the photos but I still rely on it a lot. It's not if you are copying too closely and infringing on the photographer, or copying art. But tracing things like cars or buildings, if you make enough modification to it to make it your own, is perfectly acceptable in the industry. A lot of people will try to tell you it's not okay to trace at all, but it's because they're weird purists who don't think art should have any shortcuts. But prof artists know that 90% of prof art is shortcuts. They're necessary in order to deliver work on time which looks good, which is more important that making "pure" art.
>>
>>10013837
One caveat, most of the time when this is done in the industry it's for concept art, internal art or art for development not the final asset. A lot of time in comics it's done with free models or free use photos, paid for cheap resource photos or self taken photos too. Rarely would someone being contracted to draw a print for an official IP be straight tracing or photobashing things for the final product from google images or some such.
>>
>>10013835
>fill a space that most of us can't see, or we'd be filling it ourselves
Pretty much this.
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>>10013871
>Rarely would someone being contracted to draw a print for an official IP be straight tracing or photobashing things for the final product from google images or some such.
You must be in an industry that has a lot more integrity and time than the ones I've been in.
>>
>>10013837
Thank you anon, this is what I thought but hearing some else say it makes me feel a lot better.
>>
Is anyone else's tumblr interaction plummeting? While I'm exponentially increasing on other social media, my tumblr has been slowly dwindling from thousands of likes to dozens. I don't know if it's something I'm doing wrong, or if it's just not a popular platform anymore.
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>>10014069
I think it's because tumblr itself seems to be losing popularity. If you're doing fine on other sites, that's a good indication that it's not you, it's just tumblr dying out.
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>>10014069
I’m severely dying on there too, I just gave up a week or two ago.
Tumblr is the next deviantart, it’s fucking already dead to be honest. Move on now if you can.
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>>10013896
NAYRT I'm not sure just how much is traced based on what you said but it sounds like your current line of business is a ticking time bomb. Tracing an existing photo or large portions of an existing photo covered under copyright is not transformative enough to be covered under fair use.

>>10013871
This anon gets it.
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>>10013592
google thumbcramps or skimlines
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>>10014158
Different anon but I'd assume if they took the photo or owned the rights to it then there shouldn't be any issue, which is how I see a lot of professionals tackling the situation (outside of concept artists)
>>
>>10014161
Well yeah but that's not the issue here. It's taking something random off of Google or some other place and tracing that without knowing if it falls under public domain or a creative commons license.
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>>10013592
depending on your audience, it could mean anyone who likes ‘problematic’ ships or fanfiction or whatever the fuck. if you’re trying to sell to young teens you want your image as squeaky clean as possible because those kids will tear you the fuck down in a heartbeat
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>>10014160
Yet thumbcramps still gets into cons. Her art is trash too. I don't get it.
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>>10014192
NYART but I've said this here and I'll say it again, the drama that gets posted here means nothing in the long run. None of the vendettas against artists get anywhere because no one in the real world cares. Avoiding problematic artists should only be what the OP meant ( >>10013611 )which is as they said more like toxic artists that could personally hurt you in some way. Not artists 4chan of all places thinks are sjws or whatever gossip they have. Far worst people have gotten and will continue to get tables and make money.
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>>10014222
Also not any of the anons you mentioned but people don’t hate thumcramps and skimlines because they’re “sjws”. Thumbcramps has literally drawn racist caricatures (which is, you know, actually harmful) and tried to compare fatphobia to like... actual racism. Skimlines tried to assert that anime cons should give preferential treatment to As-Am artists and also pushes a weird pan-Asian theory which again, is harmful because it backs the idea of an asian monolith.

Like even from a SJW point of view, they’re both kind of terrible. I don’t even think political posts from artists are necessarily a bad thing since art and politics are inherently tied together and artists are human beings after all. The two you’ve mentioned just tend to be incredibly rude and rather misinformed about what they’re shilling.
>>
>>10014222
I'm the anon you responded to and >>10014241 is more what I was getting at. Most artists in AA are sjws, I don't care about that. It's more being an outright terrible person like Thumbcramps who isn't even liked by other sjws on top of having garbage art.
>>
So AANI mods just posted about wanting respect from all of us. I always seem to miss the posts they complain about, especially alleged death threats. But lol, knowing some of the people on the mod staff for AANI, them asking for respect is so ironic. One of them is as bad as skimlines and openly talks shit about other people in public.
>>
Just got my pins back from the enamel pin factory. I order 40/40/10/10 of design colors and they ended up sending me 25 of each. Plus a fourth of them are bad quality. I would not recommend using them.
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>>10014549
why pay middle man prices for direct to factory quality and mistakes,yikes
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>>10014549
So which manufacturer is this? You didn't specify which one you wouldn't recommend.
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>>10014557
>the enamel pin factory
Literally called https://enamelpinfactory.com/
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>>10014560
Oh damn I'm sorry anon
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>>10014556
Yeah this was my first enamel pin experience, not a good start.
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>>10014569
Yea.. I would expect this kind of stupid from my direct manus, you might as well pick a random one from alibaba if this is what middle men give. Although are they at least fixing this for you??
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>>10014222
jesus when did this group become so sensitive, you're worse then the aani mods
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>>10014622
I am tired of dealing with them. I just went ahead and filed a PP dispute. They kept fucking up my proof numerous times and had terrible communication. Time to find a new manufacturer.
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>>10014661
uh.. what? are you sad you're irrelevant?

>>10014664
Good luck! That's fucked up, I have no idea how that can even happen. Like paying for a middle man is paying for perfect english communication, I've NEVER had to ask a manu to change a proof more than once. Sorry this experience seems to get worse the more you talk about it, it's really not that bad even with direct to factory.
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>>10014158
>Tracing an existing photo or large portions of an existing photo covered under copyright is not transformative enough to be covered under fair use.
I'm the anon you replied to, and I don't know why you assumed this is what I meant. I do mean pics you take yourself, or stock that is royalty free or paid for. Worst case scenario, I will photobash a bunch of different references from multiple sources so the end result doesn't look anything like the references. There are a lot of ways to "trace" and use photo reference that are totally acceptable. Most professional artists know not to grab a copy of Vogue and start copying the models and car ads for their professional work.
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>>10014079
Where exactly are the tumblrites going to, though? There's nothing really like it to replace it.
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>>10014732
Spreading out probably, Instagram, Twitter, Discord etc.
>>
What would y'all price 40cmx40cm pillows? A lot of pillows on the market are ~18cmx30cm and go for $25 single-sided, but I'm not sure what I should price mine at since they're visually twice the size and double-sided.

Do y'all ever lower your prices on your +$30 items for smaller conventions? I'm doing a local convention at a college and the attendees are mainly students. My profit margin on the items is definitely safe if I lower my prices a tad, but I'm not sure if that's bad business practice or something?
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>>10014819
I've done this in the past and I know people who do this regularly. Personally, I currently am too lazy to do this (making new signs etc), but also wouldn't look down on anyone who chooses to. The only issue is running into a customer who bought something at a higher price from you before and see you selling it lower.
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>>10014819
You could frame it as a "hometown discount" or something, like it's a special occasion for a local con. Would save from the awkwardness >>10015089 described with any returning customers and might net a couple sales from people who feel like they're getting a special deal.
>>
Anyone know if Vograce has limits to what they'll print? I want to get some edgy charms of a character after a battle, sword and armor covered in bloody monster guts.
>>
>>10014360
The mods are all autistic hyper sensitive retards that have no saving grace. I remember meeting Nancy at an indie creators conference a few years back, she smelled like literal sweat and feet up close and wasn't acknowledging anyone that walked by her table. Doesn't help that she looks like simply sara in a neon wig.
>>
>>10013044
>>10014079
I've had a huge drop in tumblr activity too. How likely do you think it is that it will go the way of MySpace and everything disappears from it?
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>>10014819
My pillows are about 40x40. I just do $30, 2 for $50
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>>10014819
>>10015369
My 35cm x 25cm pillows are $30. I've seen bigger pillows go for $35~$40 in the AA. Also second anon - if you plan on keeping them at $30, try doing 2 for $55 instead of $50! It's actually surprising how fast that extra $5 adds up.
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>>10015217
Very. Or it'll stay around but have an unlikable connotation to it -- "the site for SJWs with 1000 genders, BL lovers, and furries"
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>>10015204
I don't think you'll have any problems printing those, but might have trouble with selling them since I don't think stuff like that can be openly displayed in most cons and you'll have to tag it pretty carefully when selling online.
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>>10015394
>"the site for SJWs with 1000 genders, BL lovers, and furries"
I've noticed recently that all of those people have moved heavily to twitter recently. Tumblr has felt like it has improved a lot recently.
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>>10015596
I was the anon in a couple threads ago, in July, that had a callout post made about me being a threat and dangerous because I drew a clothed leash and collar picture of a character. I feel like it got worse and thar Purity culture is just spreading.
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>>10015596
This, I feel like twitter is just the new tumblr, but with even more users and diverse drama. Due to the format people don't write entire essays on callouts and SJW rants anymore, but it's pretty much the same petty drama just in one-liner format.
>>
Any suggestions on getting more interaction on instagram besides tagging? I seem to have stagnated and I'm not sure how to get a wider audience.
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>>10015765

>Due to the format people don't write entire essays on callouts and SJW rants anymore, but it's pretty much the same petty drama just in one-liner format.

My dude it's worse. It's essays, but spaced over 100 lines 200 characters each. Their word vomit is even less organized that way because they can't actually see how much fucking space their poorly thought content takes up.
>>
>>10015967
collab with someone or find someone popular and send them free stuff.
>>
Gulls, do any of you have experience with Anime Boston's Pro Row? Is there like an actual hard percentage of how much of your table has to be original? I remember seeing a bunch of fanart at pro row tables and their rules are kind of vague.
>>
>>10015213
Oh hey Stefanie
>>
Etsy is doing a test run of changing thumbnail sizes. Really annoying that they do this. Some of my thumbnails look awful now.
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>>10016025
Example of the change for those that don't see it. This shop has been affected the worst from what I have seen.
Only a few of my items will need to get new thumbnails if this change stays in affect, but I can't imagine the people with hundreds of more of items that look like pic related and they have to edit all of them. I don't even like square images.
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>>10015975
I fucking hate twitter. Yes, tumblr is also a hive of cancer but the format of the platform itself is good for posting and presenting art, and in it's heyday it was great for your art to gain traction.

Twitter is just awful for presenting anything but literal stream of consciousness. Finding art by tags is hopeless and the platform itself forces you to hustle more than you did before because just tagging your art with fandoms and characters are likely to be ignored compared to acquaintances and prolific artists retweeting your stuff.
>>
art posting aside, twitter just also feels less intelligent to me, lol. i feel like i used to learn interesting things from all those mini-essay tumblr posts... just the ability to organize an argument and add links makes a world of difference. on a variety of topics, too. on twitter the only thing i "learn" about is the latest political / corporate / artist fuckup drama followed by a slew of tweets of everyone stream of consciousness vomiting their emotions and moral outrage everywhere.
>>
>>10016115
>>10016225
Fucking this! I miss when art communities had a not dead site to post their art that was made for art and not piggyback off the hottest social media platform to not fade into obscurity even if the platform is a steamy pile of shit that works against you.
>>
Hey, there's a few lanyard printing sites out there, but I didn't see one listed in the doc. I would greatly appreciate any reccomendations for quality lanyard printing. Thank you!!
>>
Anyone else feel like this is a huge overreaction?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ESuKnnpGgRLsOLeEhWfq4UzIM3H9MUp5Iom7F8I4MmQ/edit

This type of callout just makes me worried the con will hate artists more and pose even more restrict rules
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>>10016887
nah, sac doesn't give a shit about some random artist's google docs rant. see: AA head brushing them off with 'lol do a different con then xoxo'
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>>10015997
Considering the requirements page itself just says the majority of your art needs to be original, I don't there is a hard percentage, at least not one that would be enforced. I'd guess though that the more original work you have the better.
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>>10016887
>Google doc rant
tl;dr.
Is this a thing now? Is this what's happening because tumblr is dying, entire google docs of rants circulating and artists expecting random people to read it?
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>>10016887
I mean I do agree that the artist has a point re: security and personal information. I think a lot of people are getting stuck on the first bit that's just whining about the lottery.

Sac staff never asked me for a photo of my ID when I've tabled there so what they're saying about inconsistency is true.
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>>10016941
>I mean I do agree that the artist has a point re: security and personal information.
Is that something I should be worried about? Half the hotels I stay at and the two jobs I worked at copied my ID.
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>>10016953
I think the point that artist was trying to make is that Sacanime specifically takes PHOTOS of the IDs with their personal cellphones then transfers the digital images to their personal home computer. The artist themselves was advocating for the use of photocopies instead.

Digital files are more vulnerable because someone could hack into their phones or PC and gain access to your personal information. Especially since the AA heads themselves admitted that they're not stored on secure servers. Hard copies (like the ones that hotels and employers make) tend to go in a physical file or get shredded after, thus dramatically reducing the security risk.

Anyway, I'm glad that I got into a different con that month so I don't have to worry about this Sacanime nonsense.
>>
>>10016957
Ah, I see what you mean, that makes sense.
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>>10016941
Oof seeing the staff's reply to what security measures they take -- they (Owens) said not to worry because "all IDs are stored on a personal pc OFFLINE instead of the cloud", as if the files stored on your actual drives are 100% safe. When asked further whether or not this home PC is protected, she vaguely alluded to "doing whatever a regular paranoid person would do" to make sure it is. She sidesteps the questions so much, it's clear she doesn't know what she's doing and all our data is just sitting on some technologically-inept rando's pc. And now everyone knows.
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>>10016957
It's kind of sad that all of this was lost in that google doc rant. That's an incredibly good point about security and personal information. SACanime should actually be greatful for this kind of criticism. Should anything happen, they'd be in bigger trouble than they could possibly imagine. It was way too spergy for me to read over, though.
>>10016887
Shouldn't it be some Facebook AA post anyway? It'd gain more traction that way. It's just lost to the ether sitting on a google doc.
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>>10017099
it'd probably be deleted from the official sac group but i think the comments where crystal admitted to everything are on some post in the group. anyone know which one?
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>>10017099
I thought it was just more complaints about the lottery too and I was giving it a cursory read through until I got to the part about taking photos of artist IDs with a personal cell phone and started paying more attention. Honestly, I'm not going back to Sacanime next year but that had me concerned immediately.

What it seems like from visiting the original artist's twitter + the screencaps in the doc is that they tried to engage the AA staff through the Sacanime AA group on Facebook first. But the AA staff didn't really answer the security concerns, told the artist to attend a different con if they were dissatisfied, and then deleted the entire thread about it? Since their FB thread with their security concerns were deleted, they made a Google doc and posted to AANI and twitter - probably so that even if the AANI admins decide to delete their thread, they can still have backups via the doc.

>>10017094
Yeah, honestly. It kind of seems like the AA staff is a little thin skinned? It was a good point but they refused to address it because they were stuck more on the tone of how the question was presented. The artist asking the question could have phrased it a little more politely but the way Sac's staff is acting makes them look immature too. Low-key glad that there are much better cons happening during both Sac Winter and Sac Summer so I can treat Sacanime as a backup con just in case I don't get into the better ones.
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>>10017100
Are you talking about these from AANI? 1/2
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>>10017100
>>10017104
Love how she keeps dodging artists who tell her that their IDs have never been photographed by them before. I feel like if someone points out inconsistency in a security measure for an event that I'm in charge of, I would immediately apologize instead of saying "well it's SUPPOSED to be everyone though".
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>>10017106
>all this dancing around and offloading of responsibility doesn't change that a shitton of sensitive, identity-theft-facilitating personal info is just sitting on some rando's computer
that is not great, Crystaline.
>>
>>10017104
>>10017106
So what I've gathered from the FB thread:

1. AA staff for Sacanime only consists of TWO people. Their tone makes it sound as if we should be grateful they do so much work for us for how little
2. Any mishaps from registration is NOT the fault of AA staff -- it's all the other departments. Their responsibility should be to better communicate with other teams but hey, what do I know, I'm just another artist right kek.
3. They do indeed take photos of your ID upon check in, and try alleviate concerns by letting us know that our info is also uploaded on to their personal PC (I don't know which one of the two unless they live together).
4. Someone in the comments whose mom is a cop (lmao) mentioned that the ID photo taking practice is common and legal, BUT you don't need to show everything, just your photo and name. Sacanime staff gleefully uses this to prove that what they're doing is ok because someone online said it is. But they have never told artists during check in about covering up our info on our IDs if we wanted to. If they had previously looked into the legality of this whole thing, they would've taken precautions to ensure our privacy. They're just grasping at straws after the fact of being exposed to build their own case.
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>>10017146
whoops ignore the unfinished sentence in #1, got distracted and posted too quickly
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>>10017104
Why does she keep acting like taking photos of ID is normal? I have attended large cons all over the country and california and I have **NEVER*** had a photo of my ID taken. I've never even had to turn in a photo copy of an ID to a con. EVER. Does she think artists don't know this?
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>>10017104
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ESuKnnpGgRLsOLeEhWfq4UzIM3H9MUp5Iom7F8I4MmQ/edit
All a good staffer should have to do is see the ID, and make sure the person holding it and the permit is that person. There should be no reason to even make a copy.
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>>10017389
I get the impression they're going through these incredible lengths of taking pictures of IDs just to hunt and catch any artists that are potentially proxying... (I don't get why proxying is such a big deal anymore.) Just let an artist send a rep to the con and get rid of the no proxy rule, if this will alleviate the issues of con staff needing to photograph IDs.
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>>10017403
they're very strict about the proxy rule and have been for years, there is no way in hell they're getting rid of it
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>>10017403
>I don't get why proxying is such a big deal anymore.) Just let an artist send a rep to the con and get rid of the no proxy rule, if this will alleviate the issues of con staff needing to photograph IDs.
> cons are getting more difficult to get into due to volume of people
> make it worse by allowing artists to be in several place at once
how about no.
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>>10017403
They said that the BOE audits require them? Which is odd because... no other California con makes us submit ID photos. Not to mention that the BOE doesn't even exist anymore since it's been replaced with the CDTFA. I feel like if you're gonna proxy, you should be buying a booth space - as far as I know, Sacanime lets artists with fanart buy exhibitor booths and the exhibitors and the artists are in the same room anyway.

I don't think proxying is all bad as long as artists follow the rules. I just wish more cons let fanart in the exhibit hall so that artists have that option if they get into 2 cons the same weekend or miss AA sign ups but still want to sell.
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Anyone else having keychains printed with vograce ending up being darker than the preview/original art? I had some dark colors printing out nearly black and I just want to confirm if it's my colors or their printers. I am coloring in cmyk so I'm not sure.
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>>10017645
not sure if it's worth mentioning but I also got the extra white printing.
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>>10017534
That's weird. Cuz based on reading Crystaline's posts from the Facebook screenshots. It sounds like they want a record of each artist's ID just so they can cross check if that is the artist behind the table at the con throughout the weekend.

I've done other Cali cons, and other out of state cons that require tax permits. And none of them have done anything like take photos or photocopy my ID. They just have a quick glance when you check in.

That is why I am understanding they photograph/copy artist IDs for the main reason of catching proxy selling artists.
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>>10017645
>>10017647
Did you compare it to the designs they sent you for approval? From my recent orders, the colours seemed pretty accurate with the colours from the file they sent me for approval.
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>>10017403
If an artist is doing well enough to proxy sell then they should be in exhibit hall. If the artist can't do that because they rely on fanart and the exhibit hall doesn't allow fanart then that artist shouldn't be at that con. If people are going to argue that tabling is a business then they should have to be in exhibit hall with the other businesses. Artist alley is for artists who actually want to be there and meet fans. That's why there are proxy rules.
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>>10017668
It looked fine on the preview but with some darker colors, like the skirt, turned out nearly black with no color distinction whatsoever. Pic related is pretty close to the irl color. This is just an example, but the reset of my order was the same way for dark colors (maroon, purple, etc.).

I'm wondering if I should compensate and make the colors lighter for my new order? I'm just worried it would look too washed out then.
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>>10017698
Colors didn't upload right in the first one.
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>>10017694
There's an artist named ahhgela who my friends and I have noticed is at almost every single con. Turns out she has proxies who travel/live all over North America. Right now, she's gonna be selling at MCM London AND TwitchCon in California. She's the biggest abuser of the system we've seen and surprisingly hasn't been caught.
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>>10017660
They mentioned that it's for auditing purposes! Here's a cap from the doc. They say it's for the IRS here.
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>>10017726
what do you mean 'caught'? she makes zero attempt to hide it (announces who her proxies are gonna be on instagram) and even if she did, the vast majority of conventions have no policy against proxy selling.

honestly, i don't see why it matters. it's not like it takes more effort to sit at a booth than it does to actually draw the merch
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>>10017660
>>10017730
And here's a cap from AANI. Where they say that it's for the BOE.
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>>10017694
Eh, NAYRT but disagree. Tabling IS a business... otherwise you wouldn't be forced to get business permits for it, anon.

>>10017726
If TwitchCon and MCM London don't have rules against proxy selling, then she's not doing anything wrong. Most comic and western cons don't really care about proxies. If she's doing this at cons like A-Kon, AX, Anime Boston, etc that have rules clearly stated against proxy selling then you should report her to the con. I always report people whenever I see them post on social media about being at multiple cons at once if the cons they listed don't allow proxies.
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>>10017694
>Artist alley is for artists who actually want to be there and meet fans.
Thats what special guests are there for. People in artist alley are there to make money. Not sure how you can think otherwise.
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>>10017738
Oh yeah, she's doing it at all these cons guaranteed lol. Any big con you can think of, you'll see her stuff somewhere, either AA or dealers. She's based in Canada and sells car decals. I want to report her but don't know how to do so anonymously.
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>>10017743
Screencap her IG posts where she states that she will be sending proxies. Email it to the con/AA head using a throwaway email. This is how I do it. Alternatively, if you have artist friends attending the con, send them the evidence and ask them to anonymously report to the AA head in person. In person reports are generally taken more seriously since emails may get ignored.
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>>10017694
You'll be suprised how many canadian artists proxy sell at multiple cons, even ones with no proxy rules. Their exchange rate is good usd to cad though so i can see the motivation behind it.
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What would be better to invest in, and ipad pro + apple pencil or a cintiq for digital art?
I've heard from othere AA artists that the ipad is the way to go but I'm not sure
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>>10017917
It depends on how you prefer to work. Do you like to draw anywhere/frequently away from home (i.e at coffee shops, library, university, whatever)? go for an ipad pro. If you prefer to work in focused sessions at home/your workspace, get a cintiq.

theres obvs more to think about than that (specs, your own drawing habits, etc) but those are the basic things to consider
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>>10017917
I have both, and while I guess both take some time to get used to I vastly prefer the cintiq and computer software compared to apps.
Both are bought second-hand and the ipad is just a month-old purchase compared to the cintiq which is years old, but I'm still at the stage where all my ipad drawings looks like clumsy sketches. Going from an Intuos to Cintiq was easy, but drawing on the ipad feels like learning digital drawing from scratch again.
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>>10017917
it's pretty split depending on how you work like other anons said. I sprung for an ipad pro and I love it, I started drawing way more because of it. Thankfully there's tons of comparison videos on youtube so try watching some of those and see what might suit you more.
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>>10017917
Adding to other anons, there are cintiq alternatives you can also check out. From personal observation, many artists I know hopped on the ipad fad but went back to their main setup after the new feeling wore off.
>>
Has anyone ever split the shipping on their order from Vograce? I'm asking Coco now if she'll do it but I'm just curious to hear if anyone has done it before. I have a friend in Japan who wants to sell some of my stuff at comiket so half of the order would ship to Tokyo and the other half would ship to the US.
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>>10017917
Personally I prefer my huion. Cheaper than a cintiq and just as good if not better imo (always had driver issues with my cintiq, never had a single driver issue with my huion). There's just more options and I feel the ipad is limiting. But I also just sketch in a sketchbook if I go somewhere and that's comfortable enough for me, it also keeps my traditional skills sharper.
>>
does anyone have that AA guide that was in a google doc? it was done by an australian iirc. thanks.
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>>10017917
Not the same but I have a surface pro and an intuos the surface is basically an etsy shipping machine now. I do use it on airplanes and at hotels but i could easily live with out it.

I was also considering the ipad pro that will be coming out soon but in the end, i know it will end up being a netflix in bed machine..
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>>10017738
We have to get "business" permits because the tax boards don't have the language for us. If they were actually more aware of how AA and selling at cons works they'd probably have a different classification. It's just language. If you consider yourself a business, fine, but many others consider it a hobby, or even an educational experience, and that's fine too.
>>10017740
I'm not sure how you can think it's acceptable to scam customers. Artist Alley is for ARTISTS, not proxy sellers. If a customer comes to your table expecting to meet you because you were promoting yourself on insta and you're actually in another state, that's a scam. Attendees expect to see the artists at their tables in artist alley.
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>>10018126
>If they were actually more aware of how AA and selling at cons works...
Question: How do YOU think selling at cons work? Because currently it just kind of sounds like you consider yourself a hobbyist/don't make a lot of money and thus don't see AA as a business.

I'm not saying that people can't do AAs as a hobby or as a learning experience but if you are exchanging money for goods and services with a tax permit - at the end of the day that is a business transaction. Hobbyists set up and sell at craft shows, farmer's markets, and swapmeets too - but these being special events doesn't mean what they're doing isn't a business.

>Attendees expect to see the artists at their tables in artist alley
This isn't necessarily true, either. Large portions of attendees come to AA to buy fanmerch of their favorite characters or new comics/accessories rather than meet the artists. I do have fans and repeat customers who specifically seek me out at cons but that doesn't mean every person there expects to meet me in person. Some western conventions even have a section in their applications to list your "at con contact" or "agent" because they understand that artists can't always make it in person and have to send someone else in their stead. The question I always hear the most at cons from attendees is "are you the artist" - which means they know that sometimes the artist isn't present at the con!

If your goal was purely to meet and interact with fans instead of selling your work - you would just run a panel about your art. If you yourself also sell items at your AA - that classifies you as a business regardless of how often you do this or how much you make.
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>>10018126
no? i couldn't give less of a shit about the individual artist. could be an artist i LOVE tabling there but if their merch is shit, i'm walking past without a second glance
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>>10018126
>you can think it's acceptable to scam customers
I don't

> Artist Alley is for ARTISTS, not proxy sellers.
I agree

> If a customer comes to your table expecting to meet you because you were promoting yourself on insta

99% of people at a con have never seen 99% of the artists outside of conventions. Artists with hundreds of thousands of followers or more who meet dozens of fans at cons are an incredible minority of artist alley artists. Most just go there to make money.

>>10018126
> The question I always hear the most at cons from attendees is "are you the artist" - which means they know that sometimes the artist isn't present at the con!

Not true. I expect the artist to be at the con, but I always ask that since most artist alley tables have two people at a table and some times one of them is just a helper or they have split the table so who made what is split among the two.
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>>10018164
From the comic convention side of things, I also agree if you are proxy selling a merchant booth is more acceptable. If you are given an artist alley booth at comic cons you are more expected to be at your booth most of the time, besides breaks and official signings. People come there to see you and get stuff purchased/signed in person.

I guess it's weird from a anime standpoint? Not many official USA manga/anime professionals compared to the comic realm? So a lot of fan art without working directly on a series.
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>>10018168
NAYRT but that also depends on your status as an artist and what kind of comic con you're tabling at. If you're mostly a fanart artist at a dinky local comic con, no one is going to care that you're not at your table physically unless they have specific rules against proxying.

If you're a high profile name like Kris Anka or Jen Bartel with actual published work that people want to get signed from you - then you're expected to be at your table. If you're promoting a book, you're also expected to be at your table. Stakes are higher if you're at a bigger profile con like the ones run by ReedPop or CCI and if you're an actual industry artist.

I've seen comic cons let artists send in proxy agents to man their table if they can't make it for whatever reason so that their fans can at least buy their merch/books even if they don't get to meet them.
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>>10018045
this un?
http://hawberries.tumblr.com/post/160938763357
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>>10017734
Hmmm, I still find it odd other cons like Anime Expo and Fanime (both I've been to), don't go and photograph my ID or photocopy it.

Verifying ID to name on tax permit, I understand. But I don't see how it is a requirement from BOE for the event to record a copy of an artist's ID?
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>>10017726
If there's no rules against proxies. I don't see what she is doing wrong? Maybe in your eyes, you just view proxying in general as unethical??

If we really want to argue against the ethics of proxy selling, we should be looking at Pulsart. They underpay the original artists, and make a living off solely acting as proxy agents selling kawacy, wlop, einlee's works at cons all over North America. The original artist aren't even making much off their arrangement. Most of the money is just going to the professional proxies running the Pulsart operation.

I don't care about small time USA or Canada artists' running proxies. I'm more concerned proxy companies that buy out Asia artist's artworks, and then shill the art at every con, including small college cons.
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>>10017917
Really depends on your art flow and are you a Windows or Mac user? I'm primarily PC, so sorting out my files on the iPad can be a nightmare at times, Procreate is great but can't handle really large files/exporting the video, and Clip Studio Paint loves to delete my work unless I ensure everything is shared to my Dropbox or whatever. Lost 3 hours of work this weekend.
I prefer my Cintiq because it easily fits into my workflow, but I got the iPad Pro so I am not stuck in my office all day
The only thing I sort of regret is my Surface Pro 3, it gets hot really fast (even if I just have CSP open) and I think this has really fucked it up, not the best pen pressure sensitivity, pretty much just use it as a laptop when I travel or to do simple edits on artwork
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>>10017726
I have no qualm with proxying if the conventions allow it. Have you checked if the conventions allow proxying? I live in London and desu, the amount of bootleg art is so bad that I would rather have art from the artist even if it’s through an agent.
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>>10018320
>I'm more concerned proxy companies that buy out Asia artist's artworks
I'm one of the people who don't think proxies in AA are fine, personally, but I have to say I agree with you on this, it's definitely a larger problem. A lot of exhibit/dealer's hall businesses are running much shadier operations than AA artists.
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>>10017917
I was told Surface Pro's are good and had been saving up for one. Are those not great anymore or something? What would be the best out of iPad Pro, Cintiq and a Surface Pro?
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>>10018357
I'm >>10018069

The main selling point of the ipad pro is there's no input lag, so it feels very much like a real pencil / tool, that's why i am/was considering one too. But you will have to use app versions of most programs (until photoshop comes out) and you still need a keyboard or you will waste time without enough short cut buttons.

It's more accurate to compare an ipad pro to surface pro, and then cintiqs separately. Like >>10017920 said, if most of your day is working at a desktop, there's really no question that you should get a cintiq or cintiq alternative first. At the end of the day, if you work at your desktop the most you aren't suddenly going to switch to doing all you work on a mobile device.
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>>10017917
I LOOOOOOVE my Cintiq, but I've always preferred doing digital art on a desktop. I'm old school (and just -old-) and the Intuos 2 was relatively new when I was a college student... so it's how I started with digital and I can't shake that method. The Cintiq only sucks if you lack desk space.
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>>10018357
Surface Pros are good but way too much money. Depending on which model you'll buy (which can quickly become pricey depending on ram/space), you'll need to spring for a keyboard attachment, the new pen, and probably a screen protector because the screen is super "glassy" and you can quickly spend up to like $1.5-2k when you can spend less than $600 on a 12HD Cintiq (or cheaper alternative like a Huion)
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>>10018312
I think the BOE at minimum needs a list of names, addresses, and permit numbers if audited. And providing IDs is just more convenient/quicker?

Long ago, sac anime used to have a form/contract that artists needed to fill out (name, address, signature). They stopped collecting the form during Jason's last year as AA head? I remember handing him my form and he was like "nah, dont need it." Since then never had to submit one.

Anyways, I assume sac anime was just looking for the most convenient method in collecting and storing artist's info. Thus resorting to photographing people's id together with their permit. Helps keep everything organized and cut down on waste? Sounds good but too bad everyone's sensitive info is stored on someone's personal phone/ home computer.
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>>10018427
If that's the case they should really be collecting that info during sign ups or have accepted artists fill out an additional Google Form. That's what literally every other California convention does and that's why other CA cons don't take photos of our IDs during check in. I don't understand why they need photos of our entire IDs with other important information.

>>10018312
Yeah, I think they're pulling shit out of their ass too but I just wanted to give you their reasoning for it.
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>>10017917
Wacom mobile studio pro 16. Get it. You don't need anything else.
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>>10018302
>http://hawberries.tumblr.com/post/160938763357
ilu. thanks a lot!
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>>10018474
>>10017917
No don’t get a MSP, just get a cintiq

The MSP has a similar issue similar to cintiq companions 1+2 with charging issues. They may have changed the charging port but because it’s supposed to be a “mobile” device, the charging wire is bound to be bent and eventually stop working

Save money and get a cintiq and if you really want to draw on the go invest in an iPad Pro or surface pro 4+(refurbished or older models)
>>
Did Magfest do rejections, or is it one of those where everyone gets on the waiting list who didn't get in?
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>>10018759
I think it's just waitlist. If you contact them too, you can ask what you can do better. They are pretty chill.
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Is it worth keeping a deviantART nowadays if you're trying to build a bigger following? Or should you mainly stick to just twitter/tumblr/instagram
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>>10020569
>Is it worth keeping a deviantART nowadays
nope. Not unless you are already popular. I've been on DA for 9 years to just follow friends but this year I decided to actually start posting my own stuff, and I've gotten, like, 4 followers. 3 months later I made a tumblr and I have 37 followers. I've given up on DA desu.
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>>10016811
Customizeithere.com is good, and they can do custom sizing and style - I had them copy the style of lanyard I got a different manu & it turned out great
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>>10017917
You/whoever's watching the answers for this may wanna check out the HP zBook x2 - It's a full windows machine like the Surface, but it comes with a detachable bluetooth keyboard & wacom batteryless pen. I had to get some sort of new drawing machine because my current laptop stopped being able to use Any Tablet Drivers, and HP got me with their booth at RTX & a sweet coupon that only made it cost $1300. I have not personally tried competing machines like the Surface or Cintiq/Companion, all I know is that one of my friends who owns the Surface was jealous that the keyboard still works while detached haha. But anyway, I like the machine a lot so far and would recommend it if you can find a good deal for it somewhere.
>>
Since we're on kind of on the subject, I've been thinking of getting CSP for a while now. Is there any reason why I should go for EX instead of Pro if I only do illustrations and occasionally comics? I'd appreciate hearing any experiences on either version actually, and if you use solely CSP or other programs along with it. Other suggestions are also welcome!
>>
I’m thinking about making a sketch zine. Does anyone have any thoughts about what’s good to put in them?
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>>10020923
Was Pro the cheaper version? It's the only one I've been using for years and I'm happy with it, at least for illustrations you don't need the expensive version. I've heard that Ex has useful feature for comics and animation, but I've never needed those myself. It's also a significant price difference, so unless you specifically need Ex features then I would go for the cheaper Pro at least from the start.
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>>10020932
sketches
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>>10021189
holy shit
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>>10021462
>>10021462
This made me laugh harder than it should have.
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>>10021031
Pro is the cheaper one, noticeably so. I was just wondering since updgrading from Pro to EX even with the discount will cost more than just buying EX, but if I'd never use the features that come with it obviously it's a waste of money either way. Thanks for the input anon!
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>>10021523
You should check out what features EX has over the Pro and consider if they're anything you'll ever use. For illustrations I honestly can't think of any reason why you would need anything else than Pro.
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>>10020569
Not really, the majority of DA's userbase are broke kids and you won't gain a following there unless you draw fetish work, wolves, or sameface anime girls. It doesn't hurt for you to try though, and it is nice to have all of your art in one portfolio-like gallery.
>>
Acornpress is throwing a Twitter fit for zaps using their LED charm idea. Isn’t acornpress the people who leave every six months or so without warning to “take a break”?
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>>10022478
>Posts tutorials for other companies to make it better and faster than her
>All this R&D and can't be arsed to get orders out timely
>Thinks manufacturing is all about being ~~the first~~ when its really about getting our fucking orders done on time

Go away Fera.
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>>10022478
the two aren't reaaaallly related though - I think fera is justified in being upset that a big business that already gets tons of traction is taking away from one of the few draws to actually use acornpress? Like yea acornpress is unreliable and I think it's unrealistic to try and have any kind of a manufacturing business without having at least ONE person whos sole job is customer service, but I get feeling shitty about having your idea ripped off.
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>>10022490
99% guarantee that it wasn't the company that directly stole from her, but a disgruntled former customer of hers that asked those companies if they would copy the idea for a more reliable source to order from. Noone wants scratched-off-paint acrylics from Fera anymore.
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>>10022483
I genuinely don't know why Acornpress doesn't cap orders. Surely it's better to take what you can handle and ensure that it will be delivered on time, than to accept any order and end up having to refund/deal with bad PR when people don't get communication/their charms in time.
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>>10022499
Even if it was the company itself, scoping out the competition for good ideas is just part of business? The (smart) artists doing AA do it as well, it's better to let competitors experiment and possibly waste money then jump in when you already know if there's audience interest.
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Can someone who’s sold at Nekocon say how strict they are about 50/50?
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>>10022478
...??? But they literally can’t handle the demand that they already get. Bruh you created the excess demand yourself, can’t complain that someone is filling the need.
>>
>get package of reprints from Vograce
>they mark the package a bit too high
>$1 COD fee
>which turns into $20 because UPS
REEEEEEEEEE
>>
has anyone ever tried any charm manufacturers on alibaba other than vograce??
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>>10022478
If the only thing that mattered was being first we'd only be using ink it labs lol
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>>10022511
Same people that staff it staff Otakon if that's a point of ref for you.
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>>10022649
Oh. Yeah, then I guess I can expect some stickler-ing and should actually go count my shit, thank you anon.
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>>10022506
I don't understand.... The fact that there's excessive demand to the point their work is being stolen means that they have in fact created something extremely valuable. They're setting the demands and trends that "smart" AA people depend on to copy?? How is that a bad thing, your money depends on these types of people.
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>>10022517
Isn't it suicidal to kill the creativity needed to make the AA scene even thrive in the first place? You cry when your stuff is stolen, but because they're not you it's ok??
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>>10022774
You parasites are killing the host.
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>>10022779
She killed herself. She was a fool for not protecting herself and she was too stubborn now to grow as a business. “Oh it’s just little ole me and my printer!!” that gets old after the 3rd 6 month break she takes for what? You think the artists can also just take a 6 month break with her too? What exactly are we supposed to do in her absence? She was a fool and now she’s suffering the actions of her consequences.
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>>10022784
what the hell are you talking about 3rd 6th month break. are you just pulling stuff out of your ass? acorn closed once, how did that become three times.
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>>10022478
I honestly don't feel bad for her. I also don't feel bad for her considering how many mixed reviews Fera gets in terms of her taking 1-2 months just to ship out charms. Back then, AP was the top in getting charms locally in the US and seemed pretty fast to accommodate people prepping for con season, that is until the stupid printer issues they suffered. Fera just needs to face the music and do two things. She needs to take Acorn Press more seriously, change the work ethic of the company and start updating the website and tumblr blog altogether if she wants to garner the traffic she once had years ago (This doesn't include updating the Twitter once in a blue moon). Or, shut down Acorn Press as a whole.

Companies are constantly gonna do ideas she may have planned and if she wants to do them, she needs to start cracking at it.
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>>10022804
get cracking at what ideas? more ideas for people to just take overseas and blame acorn for being too small to handle demand?
for what it's worth, vograce and zap have teams of people and constantly send out fucked up garbage. acorn is just slow.
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>>10022804
You know there's an active Twitter, right? That's how the lights took off.
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>>10022818
Wow Fera calm down sorry you were a pathetic business owner who couldn’t even have a corherent thought to maybe protect yourself. Have fun thinking about how zaps is going to make millions from this idea while you make absolutely nothing.
Isn’t this one of the scenarios where you regret this for the rest of your life?
I truly feel sorry for you.
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>>10022784
There was that half year break after AX last year, they've been up since Jan and a two week break to update pricing recently, where are you pulling that info out from?
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>>10022858
lol.
idk maybe i've just been lucky enough to not get screwed over, but i've never seen crazy mad defects from any domestic manufacturer like the photos that get regularly shared here.
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>>10022906
Considering acornpress has roughly ten customers a month compared to the hundreds/ thousands even that other manufacturers have, yeah statistically it would make sense for defects.
Well that’s implying Acorn press had that many customers to begin with I guess.
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>>10022501
So much this!!
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>>10022611
Yes, and it was pretty awful.
>>
>go check fanime app out of boredom
>results are out?!
>aw got waitlisted
>go on twitter to see who got in
>no one posting about it
>???
>realizes that I actually logged into the 2018 website instead of the 2019
Feelsdumb.png
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>>10023487
thanks for giving me a heart attack in the first few lines lol
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>>10023487
aw man,why ya gotta scare me like that
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>>10022774
> You cry when your stuff is stolen, but because they're not you it's ok??
wh-what? are you implying a different manu working in the same medium is comparable to art theft? let me break it down for you with a different analogue, since you insisted on comparing it to AA theft: this is like someone saying they're the only person in artist alley allowed to sell holo washi tape because they thought of it first.
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>>10022857
> (This doesn't include updating the Twitter once in a blue moon).
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>>10022774
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0b145e15-0e49-4f8d-b302-2d0ad8d64372

Here you go. This is actually specifically about fashion but the same general concept applies here.
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>>10023512
i would say it's easily worse than art theft, your analogy doesn't apply here.
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>>10023487
gdi anon i didn't need that spike in anxiety
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>>10023533
lol, if you literally teach people how to make something you can’t throw a bitchfit when it’s copied by someone bigger. either accept that people will use your methods commercially or dont put up tutorials at all
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>>10023533
>it’s worse than art theft
How? No really, I want to hear your reasoning for this.
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>>10023533
You can't really protect an idea for a product from being stolen unless you patent it.
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>>10023631
it's not worse, it's the same thing. but a prior trusted client going behind your back is a bit different than artwork popping up on ebay. artist's customers don't generally knowingly ditch them in lieu of their designs being reproduced for cheaper elsewhere and try to voice their justifications for it.

>>10023566
>>10023784
that is the exact problem. the community treats innovators like that and innovations end. everyone knows that china will make whatever the fuck we ask them to. patents aren't useful for communities that manufacture in china with no regard to intellectual property rights, period. there is no protection there, patent or not. artists can't protect themselves when their art is stolen either. dealer room fanart bootlegging, anyone?
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>>10024017
How is all the China stuff relevant when the manu she's upset about is Western?
Let's put it another way. The amount of people that can actually go through Acorn Press is very small due to frequent breaks and long delays. If she makes these and nobody else does, then that's not conducive to innovation either since almost nobody will be able to get them made.
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>>10024017
Not trying to disagree or suggest that customers are all so good and would never "betray" a manu, but wouldn't you think that Zap or even Vograce have people doing research to expand on what are probably some of their most popular products? It's not hard to find people posting everywhere about "Look at my awesome new charms!!"

Unfortunately, it's strictly business for everyone involved. And while the innovators do get the butt end, that's precisely /why/ they have to keep innovating and make the most of the period in which they have the "advantage." If they drop out someone else will take their place.
We should all know that by know, because it applies to us too lol. We think we're so creative being the first to have so and so but then in a flash we're no longer unique and we're being drowned by a sea of other people who have, as is expected in business, caught on to the trend and taken the opportunity to profit off of it.
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>>10024494
I have a confession.
I was referencing Zaps in a tweet but I also had that video of the led charm made by Acorn Press, meaning I accidentally tagged them in it (this was also the first time I’d had seen the LED concept too) and I think that’s what gave zaps the idea to steal it.
The tweet is now deleted (I think) because I felt guilty.
Maybe it was a coincidence, but it was about two or three months before zaps announce “their” LED charms, which is plenty of time for them to steal the idea.
Someone tell me I’m over thinking it and it wasn’t me that introduced the idea to Zaps to steal from acorn Press.
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>>10024505
unlikely. if you were the only one who was posting about the LED charms, zaps wouldnt have considered it popular enough to be worth copying
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>>10024524
But how can you not just look at them and see how much of a genius idea it is? They’re in one business and that’s acrylic charms (pretty much), so anyone seeing that would instantly think “wow that’s a fantastic idea”.
>>
Are the acornpress LED charms even available yet? I've looked but it doesn't even look like they're for sale yet. The mistake seems to be that they started sending out samples before they even made it available to order which caused other companies to get out ahead of them when they saw the sample videos, because of the gap in the market.
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>>10024586
they're available and the pricing is listed, you just have to contact them. i think they cap quantity at 50 and also longer turnaround because wow getting something highly customized and hands on from an indie printshop takes that sort of patience.
also what "gap in the market"? it's literally the market they created. people in this thread blaming them for not being able to meet demand for something they made, but also blame them for not advertising enough?
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>>10024610
>”Indie printshop”
Holy fuck that’s a sugarcoated way to spell “incompetent business owner.”
I’m so sick you trying to act like “I’m just one little store owner and a printer UwU” is a good think? You were incompetent, Fera. That’s why you’re the only one still defending yourself in this damn thread.
Contact them? Really? Last time i heard someone contacted you you never responded.
Give it the fuck up you useless bitch.
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>>10024619
EEeee yeah there's no need to call names lol.

But @Fera, there are, afaik, quite a lot of people who would rather deal with a US based manufacturer rather than a Chinese/overseas one. Right now it's pretty obvious that the number one thing you need is some kind of staff, and to know how to handle the volume of orders you get (so long as you're able to re-establish Acorn's reputation). Customers do have patience for little companies...that is, until you continuously fail to meet their expectations.

Rather than being all "woe is me," focus on that so you can get the ball rolling again. Then, even when you come up with new things, people won't drop you so fast (because honestly Acorn is pretty shaky and unreliable right now).
>>
Would you recommend Zap or Vograce for an order of a single acrylic stand? I'm looking into making my own merchandise of an unloved character, so I only need one. Looking through the archive, they both seem like pains in the ass to work with and like they make frequent mistakes, so I'm not sure which one to choose.
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>>10024610
Hm well I looked through the pricing pages and didn't see them anywhere sooo maybe feature it more prominently lol
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>>10024619
>>10024638

The only thing i don't like about Acorn Press is how bland their website is and a lack of samples to give you an idea of what their quality looks like. If she wants to compete with Ink It, Zap and many others, at least update the damn website. If this was a newbie getting into doing charms, they're gonna sift through an outdated tumblr blog just to get an idea how their charms would look, especially if they want special material charms like glitter. Why not have sample charms on your website detailing them like Zap? Funny story, Fera answered a email of mine that i sent a year ago and she responded a year later. She also said she'll update the tumblr blog and that shit hasn't been touched to this day and i honestly wasn't surprised.

I know people still use Fera for her services as of late, but not as often compared to 2 years ago. I feel the slow turnaround time and shipping dates is just not gonna cut it for some people. You can't update one social media platform and keep the others in the dark. Like one anon said, Fera seriously needs staff if she wants to get tons of business for Acorn Press like it was 2 years ago. Other companies who provide charm services, even Vograce, at least have images of all the materials they use. Fera is the odd one out with a bland website, barely updated tumblr blog and just whining on twitter about how her ideas are being taken. At one point, i was considering using Fera's services but thank god i didn't throw money at her.

I remember seeing someone on tumblr talking about how their friend ordered charms for a con, never got the charms they ordered before the con, emails unanswered, so they filed a paypal claim and immediately Fera answered the email cause of the claim. Then cancelled the person's charms, which isn't what they wanted.
GG Fera.
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>>10024505
This is kind of hilarious/cute.
It’s probably not your fault anon.
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If anyone cares, small update about The enamel Pin Factory. They finally processed my return after I shipped defective product back. They refunded my shipping as well, but shorted me by about $2. I'm not sure if it was a conversion thing or what, but it just shows how lazy they are.
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>>10025161
Man, what a hassle. You've been posting about them for a couple of weeks, haven't you? Mind showing some of the defects, and stuff they got wrong compared to what you designed? I've been eyeing them for the past month thinking about testing out pins, and they seemed like an easier start than venturing out among Chinese manus. But if you're paying more and still gets mediocre results and shitty service then what's the point?
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>>10025169
Top image is what I submitted, bottom image is their "proof" after telling them multiple times that it is incorrect. Turn out the person editing it was not the graphics person, but the warehouse manager. I told them I was uncomfortable continuing if the proof did not reflect my product. They reassured me and I OKed it because it had been maybe a month of back and forth at this point and I was really done talking with them.
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>>10025196
Once receiving the pins I noticed they gave me the incorrect quantity. I specifically stated what quantity of each pin color I wanted. Upon inspection I was missing around 20 of the red and pink ones total, I don't remember exactly right now. Also almost all of my white ones had terrible chipping and bubbling on the enamel. In total, out of 100 pins, about a quarter of them were missing or unsaleable.
I had made one order previously and they were fine, but this whole interaction with them was a nightmare, and I will find my own manufacturer from now on.
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>>10024553
sure, but a fantastic idea without the popularity needed to make it profitable is useless
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is it okay to sell plushies made from a pattern that isn’t yours? it’s not patented as far as i know, and i know that clothing doesn’t fall under copyright laws because it’s functional. does that apply to plushies too? more importantly, am i likely to get kicked off a platform for selling them if the patternmaker finds out?
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>>10025259
As long as you didn't steal the pattern, as in, its publicly for free or for sell, then there is no problem with that.
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>>10025261
>>10025259
You have to check, even if the pattern is free they will ask that you don’t use the patterns for sales.
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>>10025259
Ask the artist. If they say yes then it is, if no then it isn't. You could argue fair use if you wanted and that legally you're allowed to do so but you'll still come off like a cunt in the end. Just ask them.
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>>10025269
>they will ask that you
The person who made the pattern will, not the platform or government.
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>>10022511
>>10022649
>>10022661
First day of Nekocon. Did anyone come to your table to check?... And did you feel like it was really slow?
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>>10020817
>Customizeithere.com
This looks like they use China for printing with "3 weeks turnaround time". What's the point? Why not just go through alibaba and drop the middle man?
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>>10025450
That is correct...? never mentioned the gov but ok
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>>10025380
what degree of cunt? i’m not necessarily averse to coming off as a cunt, i’m just trying to gage the attitude towards it on a scale of ‘vaguely copying someones merch idea’ to ‘literally selling printed out fanart from deviantart’
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>>10025259
If the pattern is generic or you heavily modify it, I don’t think it’d be a problem. Otherwise, ask the artist. If it’s a direct pattern copy with no modification and the artist specifically says that it’s not intended for sale, just don’t do it.
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>>10025196
>>10025197
Wow, how do you even mess up the proofs this bad? Why even edit it when they only messed up the coloring and consistency? And that chipping is horrendous, christ.
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>>10025561
It was slow today, but that's typical for Friday for this con, it'll pick up today.

The con staff doesn't really check hardcore, but some of the artists are. one my friends got reported for breaking the 50/50 rule when they werent even breaking it, and another friend got reported for having a display piece they weren't supposed to

I'm a 100% original artist and I'd never report anyone for breaking the 50/50 rule so I don't know what's up with some of these snitchers
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>>10025694
people trying to get their 'competition' kicked without realizing that its long term self sabotage
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>>10025694
I mean... I always try to report if someone is breaking the rules because it’s not fair to everyone else who followed the rules. I’m not at Nekocon but it seems like there are other artists there who feel similarly.
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>>10025561
Don’t think so although maybe they only say something if it seems like a violation.

>>10025694
>>10025715>>10025701
I don’t feel strongly about people who report others but enforcing that rule is sort of the con’s job not ours. Also you’re right to put quotes around competition, that’s an incorrect/unhealthy way of approaching AA imo.
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>>10025694
Wait, what was the thing they weren’t allowed to display?
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>>10025732
I don’t go out of my way to spite other artists by reporting them because I’m scared of “competition”. I just think that if there are rules for an AA, then every artist should be following the rules. Reporting them to the appropriate staff is not the same thing as enforcing the rules. If you tried to enforce the rules yourself, you’d be going up to the artists in question and telling them to comply? Which I agree, we shouldn’t be doing as fellow artists. Reporting them just lets people with the authority to enforce the rules actually enforce them.

I’ve had situations where other artists were blatantly breaking the rules to the detriment of their neighbors (ex: one time, an artist decided that they were going to stand in front of their table to pitch directly to the customers but didn’t want to block their own display so they stood in front of their neighbor’s table instead, another time someone was loudly playing music that was triggering for people with noise sensitivities, etc.) and the thing is - you actually do have to report these at the con because once the con is over, there’s nothing the staff can do to actually make sure for themselves that 1) rules are being broken and 2) they can tell the offending parties to stop. Honestly, if the con wants to have a original art rule that is up to them to curate their own space. If you disagree, you don’t have to table there instead of breaking the rules and complaining that you were caught? (I do agree that reporting people who weren’t breaking the rules at all does seem like vendetta though.)
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>>10025739
I think you should have addressed this reply at >>10025701 lol, i understand your reasoning, just don’t go to the effort of doing so myself.
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>>10025739
nayrt but I do consider the rule breaking you listed in a different category? Like not having the correct ratio of OC/Fanart seems pretty passive compared to people trying to snipe from other tables.
That said, I've had my own exp with an AA Abigail reporting my table for ratio violations and wasting mine and staffs time counting prints/charms when I knew I had the right ratio of oc/fanart
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>>10025765
>AA Abigail
lmfao
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Have any of you ever had anyone be unhappy with/react badly upon receiving an at-con commission? I’m always a little paranoid about that scenario but rarely hear about this happening to anyone (unlike digital commissions)
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>>10025843
I've definitely been unhappy with commissions I've purchased but I just suck it up and thank them politely regardless.
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>>10025852
Just curious, has it been because they got something wrong about what you wanted or the quality of work itself was half-assed/fell short?
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>>10025857
Both? The first one bothers me a lot more than the second. As an AAer myself I know that on-site commissions aren't going to be as high quality as things I want to draw for myself, so I'll understand if it's just not up to par. Sometimes I'll give specific traits, references, poses, etc though and they just totally disregard it or do their own thing, and that's what upsets the most.
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>>10025642
Pretty high percentage since you're gauging how shitty it will be to sell a thing that someone else made when you have the option to JUST ASK THEM. Just ask them. They might be fine with it.

Look. Plush isn't the same as clothing. Construction of a plush toy CAN be protected with copyright. If you want to argue legalities, if the artist allowed people to use it for free and did not mention profit, then LEGALLY you can probably do it. But that won't stop the artist from coming after you, ruining your reputation, and possibly getting you kicked off the platform because the site itself might see a different perspective than you.

If the artist says no then just modify parts of it until it's your own thing. If they call you out then you can explain that you used it as inspo but you have a list of differences you can point out (and not JUST using different fabrics etc).

At the end of the day if you're so hung up on "how bad will it be if I get caught" then you're not fucking running your business right.
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>>10025843
I've had some great commissions and some bad commissions both at-con and digital. I usually end up upset because it looks half-assed, but I just keep it to myself and I make a mental note not to commission the artist again.

Over the years my skill has gotten better and I just draw my own stuff instead of commissioning but I've had more "eh" commissions than good ones, so that turns me off a bit.
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>>10025843
I don't do commissions, but have, like >>10025852 said, been really unhappy but sucked it up. In my case it was because the quality of work was wayyy below par and it was just.. sloppy. It wasn't even an at-con, please-finish-within-a-few-hours commission either, so they had more than enough time to make it presentable. Luckily it was just a sketch commission but man, it made me wary of commissioning.

>>10025866
Personally the second bothers me a lot more, especially if the artist advertises commission samples that are way better than what you get. I understand that people want to make their samples look nice, but don't make it deceivingly nice. Make something representative of what you're going to produce. Don't spend like 5 hours on your sample when realistically you're gonna spend like <1hr on it.
As for the first point, I think it's also important to understand that the artist is never gonna have EXACTLY what you pictured in mind. But I get that if you gave them specific references and they just ignored them that would be really annoying--after all, you're paying.
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>>10025843
Unless it has some glaring flaw, most people won't notice any problems with a commission until they look more closely at it later in the day, by which time AA is closed or its just too awkward to go back to the artist.
My table helper does and gets commissions at cons. No one has ever got mad at her and when she commissioned someone to draw her character, she didn't even realize the character was draw, as the wrong sex until hours later.
>>
does anyone know what happened to that one anon who made a junkrat/roadhog romance novel cover? i was thinking about it the other day.
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>>10025866
>>10025944
>>10025962
>>10025972
Thanks for the responses, this makes me feel better t b h since i always listen closely to what people want and usually put even more detail/effort than the example.
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>>10025843
I have, once. I was doing colour commissions (with an incomplete collection of copics, so I had a limited range of hues). Someone asked for a drawing of their fursona whose main fur colour was difficult to match with the colours I had at hand. I warned her before hand, said that I would do what I can, and that I would be happy to scan the commission and digitally adjust the colours to better match their ref. They agreed, seemed happy, and left.
When she picked up their commission she all but burst into tears. Her bf was with her when she came back and angrily insisted I refund her because I 'didn't even get close'.

For reference, the fur colour was *supposed* to be basically YR00, and I primarily used R20.
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>>10026976
Lol i just looked up those colors and .....that much drama over the fursona coming out veeery slightly pinker than expected
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>>10026976
>When she picked up their commission she all but burst into tears
This is why I don't do individual commissions anymore. It's a business transaction, as long as the terms are agreed to beforehand then artists shouldn't have to shoulder the emotional burden of the customer. It's the customer's fault if they don't clarify everything beforehand.
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>>10026976
That’s some bs on the customers part if she agreed before.
So did you refund her?
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>>10025613
anon asked for refs so I gave one I've worked with before and has done quality work in my experience? if you want to put in the work to find one on alibaba go ahead lmao
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>>10026987
oh it was some shit about how she hated it being pink because it's not meant to be a feminine fursona and it's like.....why pick a peach based tone then lol

>>10026993
yeah, I only do con commissions now that are explicitly 'shitty doodles'

>>10026997
I did a partial refund to get them out of my hair (and stop them making a scene at my table all weekend), but fucking furries, man.
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>>10023389
I was actually thinking about doing this since vograce is so popular now I'm worried their quality is decreasing. Do you mind sharing your experience/the company's name?
>>
new thread >>10027273





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