Everyone in this show deserved better.
We could have had a truly great ending
But instead, absolutely everyone got screwed over.
I wish I moved on but at this point I understand zaShunina won't budge from his seat in my Husbando Council for a while.
You know what would be nice but won't ever happen? An OVA. Either an AU thing with a different ending, or just a slice of life midquel thing with cute alien doing cute things.
>>3138961zaShunina is top-tier husbando material.
BD box 2 is out, the spoilers from Nozaki's second (post-Tsukai) script are in and holy shit, there was a lot of executive meddling there. >zaShunina is much more stoic and inhuman in the script; his most emotional moments are still Shindo-related, but he's simply alien, not outright yandere>almost zero romance; Yukika happens by a literal accident (Saraka ends up involuntarily absorbing Shindo's information when healing him)>zaShunina is obviously troubled by the fundamental difference between him and Shindo ("an impenetrable wall"), which leads to the next point >zaShunina disappears in the world beyond content and satisfied ("You and me are the same, Shindo... )And here's zaShunina touching monologue with Shindo's corpse:>zaShunina: "Shindo.">zaShunina speaks to Shindo's floating body.>zaShunina: "Shindo.">There is no answer.>zaShunina: "We talked a lot.">zaShunina doesn't care and speaks on. >zaShunina: "We did a lot together. Went to many places together. Drank together. And then we contended with each other. I killed you. You died by my hand. We exchanged a lot of information, as much as we possibly could. We gambled everything we were at each other, mutually completed everything there was to complete. And so... this is the end.">zaShunina's eyes partially close.>zaShunina: "Shindo, I...">A single tear escapes his eye.>zaShunina: "I miss you so much."
Another scene:>zaShunina: "Shindo...">zaShunina murmurs while watching Shindo from above. >zaShunina: "You are human, and I am an anisotropic being. There are grave, profound differences between us. An impenetrable wall. A terrible and heavy chasm.">zaShunina's eyes are warm and gentle as he watches Shindo. >zaShunina: "But Shindo. Since our very first meeting, you have always tried to put us on an equal footing. You have always tried to talk to the anisotropic being. Tried to make us understand each other. And to me..." >Shindo finishes climbing the stairs and faces zaShunina, watching him from above. zaShunina gives him a soft, tender smile.>zaShunina: "You are unspeakably precious.">Shindo returns his smile.>Shindo: "That's one way how to praise a person.">The anisotropic stairs are fading away.
>>3139327>>Shindo finishes climbing the stairs and faces zaShunina, watching him from above. zaShunina gives him a soft, tender smile.>zaShunina: "You are unspeakably precious.">Shindo returns his smile.>Shindo: "That's one way how to praise a person."God damn, I think there's something in my throat. I'm getting all choked up.
>>3139327>>3139319The original script also has sheds some light on how the anisotropic "personality" works. Every one of them is a collective; a single entity constantly running a large complex of different thought processes and "personalities" that can be completely different from each other, yet still form a single individual. zaShunina, for example, consists of at least ten "selves", maybe more. His dream scene is also different and much clearer there. >empty white space, with sprouting and collapsing fractal shapes>ten figures vaguely resembling zaShunina seem to be in a communion of sorts>suddenly one zaShunina turns his head towards a new humanoid shape (features are unclear, but it's Shindo in some form) >zaShunina extends his hands (inhuman, more like some bizarre tentacles) to Shindo>zaShunina awakens from his dream with a smile
>>3139319>>3139327>>3139327>>3139349Thank you anon, you are unspeakably precious to me.
>>3139349Fun detail: according to the design materials, zaShunina's human body looks very young, about 17 years old at most. So Shindo got drunk and seduced a being who was a minor in more ways than one.
>>3139319>>3139327>>3139331>>3139349This could have been AOTY. Yukika happening by accident makes so much more sense than Shindo actually using her as part of gambit. I can actually understand the ending if it happened according to the original script even if it had the same outcome. >zaShunina's eyes partially close.>zaShunina: "Shindo, I...">A single tear escapes his eye.>zaShunina: "I miss you so much."Fuck.
>>3139319And for comparison, the final conversation between Yukika and zaShunina as written by the writer. >Yukika: "Yaha-kui zaShunina. Do you realize what 'advancement' really is?">zaShunina cannot answer. Yukika smiles and speaks on.>Yukika: It's understanding that one still has a way to go.">zaShunina: We are only halfway there...>Yukika: Yes. Humans, anisotropic beings, me, none of us have reached our final destination yet.">Yukika extends her palm to zaShunina, a sphere of energy coalescing on it.>zaShunina looks up, gazing into space above.>zaShunina: "I still have a way to go...">zaShunina's face is calm and serene.>zaShunina: "Ahaha.">zaShunina smiles with pure delight.>zaShunina: "You and me are the same, Shindo." Why Toei thought the show needed all that extra drama is a mystery.
Do we have any information about what the story would have been in the original script, before Tsukai was introduced?>>3139454Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but at least it's less melodramatic.
>>3139464>Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but at least it's less melodramatic.It's basically about the possibility of higher existence beyond death. An existence of pure information, completely severed from any physical form and laws. This is what the staff talked about when mentioning that zaShunina and Shindo were going to find each other again, this time forever ("An oasis somewhere at the end of eternity"). The anisotropics can't die in the normal way, so this was the last frontier of the unknown for them. Nozaki's novel "know" also had this theme.>Do we have any information about what the story would have been in the original script, before Tsukai was introduced?No, unfortunately. The Nip fans are clamoring for Nozaki to write a book based on his original story, but I doubt the Toei contract would allow it.
>>3139468So they're together in death. Romeo and Juliet turned out relevant in the end after all.
>>3139473It's post-death, technically.
I've got some bad news for fujos.
>>3139508Fujos knew this was a possibility alreadyFujos don't care(also if he can create his own clothes, and his human form... he can make that too)
>>3139508That's hilarious. Males in anime are so frequently drawn without nipples; zaShunina unabashedly has them, but is otherwise a total Ken doll. It's great.
>>3139604To be fair, it's the drawing for his in-show naked CG render. They obviously couldn't show a dick there.
>>3139349Come to think of it, his dream in the anime did depict undulating, constantly transforming white shapes that eventually surround a dark humanoid figure and extend some sort of feelers/tentacles to it. Since all that white stuff is apparently zaShunina's self, I guess the dream remained mostly the same, content-wise. >yfw we saw an anisotropic sex dream and didn't even know it
>>3139632My tingly parts knew it.
>>3139508>no dick but he has nipplesIn all seriousness, I don't think that confirms that he has no dick. Maybe they just didn't bother drawing one because otherwise they'd have to censor it.
>>3139626He didn't have nipples in the anime, though. Did they add them in the blu-ray?
>>3139319A few extra details:- in the script, zaShunina explicitly says that it was Shindo who taught him to lie; he draws a rather depressing lesson from it>From now on, I shall lie to mankind as well.- he quickly realizes that the happy ending he wished for is not going to happen, but his last words to Shindo (while Shindo is dying) are telling>"Won't you join me in the anisotropic?">They both know the answer to that.- as zaShunina sees it, the ultimate goal of an intimate relationship is deep, thorough information exchange; death of one or both parties ends the process, but it can be acceptable if there is nothing more to exchange - Shindo maintained his friendship with Hanamori because their interactions made him feel "normal"; he knew that many people saw him as crazy (or at least very odd) and he suspected he might be- Yukika seems nicer in the script; she has a similar mild, smiley disposition as zaShunina
>>3139890>- as zaShunina sees it, the ultimate goal of an intimate relationship is deep, thorough information exchange; death of one or both parties ends the process, but it can be acceptable if there is nothing more to exchangeWell now it makes sense that he killed him. That was never explained in the show and felt pointless, but that explanation is both depressing and understandable from his perspective.
>>3139890>- Shindo maintained his friendship with Hanamori because their interactions made him feel "normal"; he knew that many people saw him as crazy (or at least very odd) and he suspected he might beShindo as high-functioning psychopath confirmed.
>>3140284It was confirmed in the show.
>>3140284It's a shame we never got the original 24-episode version of the show, because high-functional, non-villainous psychopaths are surprisingly rare in fiction. They're common in real life, but fiction writers always go for the evil type.
>>3139454>no pointless running away in slow mo dramatically So much better. The canon makes him look like a retard clinging to his life even though he should be smart enough to understand at this point that running when escaping through dimensions didn't work is rather pointless.
Man, with all of the information these threads have dug up re: supplementary info, rewatching the series has been a trip and a half.>>3139349>Every one of them is a collective; a single entity constantly running a large complex of different thought processes and "personalities" that can be completely different from each other, yet still form a single individual.>When Gonno and Co. got Sansa'd, they mentioned that there were a lot of themselves, but they were all still 'them.'
>>3140865And recall zaShunina's answer:>What you perceive as your everything is just a fragment of a greater whole. It also raises a possibility that Towanosakiwa (the ep10 anisotropic group) was actually just a single anisotropic entity that later became Tsukai after losing most of its information during the 3D conversion. Similarly, zaShunina's long name may be a list of some of his subpersonalities (Ya-ha-ku-i-za-shu-ni-na).
>>3140825He wasn't running for his life, he was running toward Shindo, obviously. He wanted to be with his body at that moment. Yukika cut that short.
>>3140947This is how I perceived it, too, and it made me angrier than the idea of him running for his life. It truly was gratuitously cruel after a point.
Today they held a special Kado event in Nipland, which also included a talkshow with the writer. Interesting details:>Shindo and zaShunina aren't dead; they could theoretically return to the physical world if they wanted to>lots of requests for a Kado novel written by the original author, sequel, or alternate ending; Nozaki seems to want it too>demand for a separately released OST>joke idea for a sequel: zaShunina and Shindo come back to keep Yukika under control; since physical barriers don't exist for them anymore, they decide to return as a single entity that outwardly looks like a beautiful girlWould that upgraded zaShunina/Shindo/Saraka relationship count as gay, straight, lesbian or all of the above?
>>3141199>Shindo and zaShunina aren't dead; they could theoretically return to the physical world if they wanted to>not deadHe quite literally had his heart ripped out, I'm pretty sure Shindo's dead. He may be a ghost or something, but there's no surviving that.
>>3141202I wonder if some nuance of phrasing was lost here. Shindo is clearly as dead as any other dead human; however, the scene with zaShunina summoning and destroying clones of Shindo and himself while talking about how there was something 'more' to humans than their bodies' constituent information seemed to allude to people (and now zaShunina, after his time among them) having some unquantifiable soul-like thing. The sum of a person is greater than the parts because of this quality. Maybe this is the part of Shindo that remains and can reunite with zaShu. This is also consistent with the 'they can meet each other again beyond the universe and the anisotropic' info from a few threads ago. The human potential/ human 'soul' was only hinted at and it's one more fascinating theme which could have been explored more in 24eps. I mean he's definitely dead though :(
>>3141226To summarize:Shindo's three-dimensional meat suit: deadShindo's anisotropic-elevated spirit: aliveIt's possible, due to zaShunina's imprint on him from the first conversion, that he and Shindo are now more alike physically than they are different.Anisotoron Shindo confirmed?
>>3141202He ascended to such a higher level of being that he's probably capable of manifesting a physical body like zaShunina is. That's how I took the insinuation.
Man, it would've been such a minimal change to frame zaShu's ultimate fate as something he peacefully welcomed, as a result of how Shindo's life and death affected him and what he learned from it/desiring to take a next step that could possibly bring them together in HomuMado beyond-the-universe fate. It would have made the treatment of him in the last couple episodes so much easier to bear if he at least got that peaceful end described in >>3139454 ...but no, fuck zaShunina and fuck you too audience, he has to die in utter despair and turmoil, struggling to make it to see Shindo's body one more time. so bleak and so fucking insulting too
>>3141316It really did feel like zaShunina was being punished for feeling, which sucked to watch, especially--at the risk of sounding full /lgbt/--in the context of a hetero duo existing solely to physically and emotionally torment a homo. Pretty much a bummer.
>>3141290Sounds about right. I also recall the director's older comment that they will find each other again, "not in a human form, but as something else'. Shindo's human body and some of his humanity is obviously lost. Mentally, he's always been more similar to the aliens than a human should be, so it'd be unsurprising if he and zaShunina ended up being quite alike in their ascended forms.
>>3141202I always thought Shindo ascended to a higher plane of existence because of Yukika talking to someone invisible who I thought was him. I did think that zaShunina died though.
>>3141367You can't really kill an anisotropic. They are information-based beings and information never truly dies.
>>3141367Remember how in the flashback to Saraka's time throughout the eons on Earth we saw a little sparkly fractal thing floating around to the various creatures she took life in? I figure that was her 'self'; we see a similar sparkly thing float away after Yukika kamehamehas zaShunina, which is a comforting hint he's still around. But i mean from literally every other thing in the episode than that one sparkly visual, including Saraka and Yukika's lines about Yukika having a power which exceeds that of anisotropic beings and can destroy them, we're led to believe he's permadead so who knows, one sparkle isn't a ton to draw conclusions from one way or another.
Yukika's parents? Shindo and Saraka or Shindo and zaShunina?
>>3141372According to the official sources he's alive, but you're right that the last minute changes made it more muddled than it should have been.
>>31419501) they tell you 2) she looks like a clone of Sarakawhat do you think?...speaking of parents, why did Shindo's mom look so alright in the last scene we saw of her, when sh e was i think carrying a bento and leaving her shop? At first I took it to mean that she was at peace with his passing (even in light of the 'people without children must be so sad and lonely') because she had Yukika to look after and was taking her a bento, but then we find out Yukika has vanished, so what gives? Also i feel so damn bad for his mom now.
>>3142075Oh same. I mean, what was she told about what happened to him? What was ANYONE told, other than the people who were in on his plan? That Shindo just disappeared too? I don't think we've gotten an official answer for that yet...
>>3142179I think that in th the depressing everything-is-reset news conference at the end, they said that Shindo had not been seen since Kado disappeared and his whereabouts were, like zaShunina's, unknown.However, his two coworkers whose names I'm forgetting saw his clone get crunched up by the Kado clonevator and were horrified/assumed they just saw him killed, and it seems like afterwards Saraka and Hanamori eventually told them all the events so that they understood what had happened. So i feel like at least one of them would have taken the initiative to tell his mum? But other than them the entirety of humans probably think he is missing.
>>3142075>taking Yukika a bentohey that reminds me.what the fuck did Yukika and Hanamori eat for 16 years? did Saraka stock the pocket dimension with tons of canned goods? were they able to somehow get info from the outside world like video tapes and internet (although the internet would be frozen in time like a screenshot) or was Saraka literally interacting with nothing but one guy and some books and stuff? actually there might be some answers in the couple scenes of Hanamori and Yukika's living space but I can't bring myself to look at ep12 again long enough to find themalso, did they have plumbing? did they have a toilet? wait, was Saraka pregnant for a nine-month period that she also spent in the pocket dimension or did Yukika just sprout overnight like a chia pet? and if she spent 9mos preg in the pocket dimension, why didn't she just stay the fuck in there for the 16yrs and raise her daughter instead of poor mortal Hanamori for whome life is a limited supply?! God i'm still SO MAD on Hanamori's behalf, can you imagine someone you were in unrequited love with taking advantage of your devotion like that. Fuck! i'm still so mad about the ending and it's been ages! god dammit Toei!!!
I missed out on the past thread(s), starting from around the time people started reading the book. How was it, anything interesting?
>>3142202>but I can't bring myself to look at ep12 again long enough to find themAhahaha, this. There are lots of scenes I've wanted to rewatch but I'm just too soured even for normal episodes, let alone the end of the series. >God i'm still SO MAD on Hanamori's behalfAhahaha. This. The, uh, god damn, the amount of injustice compounded into zaShunina and Hanamori alone, never mind Natsume, and even Tsukai when you think about what she really amounted to for Shindo, is pretty hard to swallow. The entire thing turned out to be quite cruel.
>>3142344>The, uh, god damn, the amount of injustice compounded into zaShunina and Hanamori alone, never mind Natsume, and even Tsukai when you think about what she really amounted to for Shindo, is pretty hard to swallow. The entire thing turned out to be quite cruel.I think it needs to be reiterated that Shindo was a high-functioning psychopath. It makes so many of his decisions make more sense when you look at it that way.
>>3142420I don't think it needs to be reiterated; that's all fine and dandy, but his shitty actions making sense doesn't make the effects less cruel on the characters. "High-functioning psychopath" doesn't make me feel better about what happened to the rest of the cast and it doesn't make the story good or satisfying. I'm well aware of what kind of person Shindo is, so it's not a matter of what does or doesn't make sense to me. It's a matter of "did this suck to watch?" The answer is yes.
>>3142420I mean sure, but in the first 9 episodes he also operated on a consistent set of internal rules/ethics (it's exemplified well in episode zero) that tended to benefit people around him and help them come to agreeable conclusions. This is what made him an effective negotiator, and an enjoyable protagonist. Multiple times, he says the goal of a negotiation is to make sure both sides walk away satisfied, and it seems to be his praxis in life as well. It's a rather unusual and enjoyable portrayal of a psychopath character who isn't harmful to those around them but instead benevolent-to-neutral, as most are in real life.He goes full evil in the last 3 episodes, and it goes from 'a high functioning psychopath character who is fun to root for and gives you good feelings when his actions pan out' to 'what are you doing you fucking fuck', and infuriatingly the narrative seems to expect us to keep rooting for him like before. Hanamori is just the beginning, the unilateral decision to REVERSE THE END OF WORLD HUNGER is pretty fucked, dumping both Shindo's characterization and behavior tendencies from the first two thirds of the series and the repeated theme of the show that humans should choose their own destiny (it's in the goddamn name of the show.) Shindo, you made the wrong answer, man...
>you will never again be able to enjoy cute scenes from this series like zaShu patting bread/not knowing how to use phones or touching scenes like Shindo gifting the bookmark without the cold knowledge of how it all ends sitting in your gut like a stoneDAE wish to go back in time and stop themselves from watching the end so that they could at least enjoy the goodness of the first parts and imagine a good ending? It was on track to be one of my favorite series of all time. Fuck.
>>3142564The official stance is that zaShunina and Shindo are now doing their spiritual communion in a world of their own, which isn't bad at all.
>>3138954I finally finished it, after putting it on hold because it took a nosedive around episode 10, and it turned out to have an even worse ending than I feared.I do not mind a sad ending, I wish there were more of them but this was just so random and dumb. The irony of an anime that for once actually has a whole cast of adults being 'solved' by the addition of a magical 16 year old girl is just annoying as hell.
Episode 12.5 apparently confirmed?
>>3143925I kind of wish they'd let it rest. Toei's executive meddling has done enough harm as it is.
>>3143674anon i know this is basically a Kado general (and i'm glad bc clearly we all badly need to talk about it) but you gotta remember we're still on /cm/>>3143925I mean it just sounds like a clipshow of some sort
>>3143989>>3143925It's just a recap of eps 7-12. Why it even exists it's another question.
>>3143995Well I hope it adds... something, at the end. Clarification for the ending, at the very least. (I shouldn't have to direct people who've watched this anime to 4chan threads just to understand the ending...)This anime didn't need one recap episode, much less two of them... that I don't get.
>>3144017It is weird. I've not seen a recap episode after 6eps before in any other show.>>3143661That doesn't really affect what I meant. Knowing all what the characters worked for came to nothing and that the entire world got screwed over makes trying to enjoy the diplomacy, science and progress in the first part too depressing -- that poor African kid on his wam powered computer omg -- and a vague word-of-god assurance that those two's souls are happy somewhere doesn't erase the horrible nature of their in show ends or how evil Shindo was at the last part (what he did to Hanamori is so fucked). It's just ruined, a pall is on all the good parts from the bad ones.
>>3144019I agree. I can, off the top of my head, think of a series of endings that are considerably less bad. How about: Shindo uses temporal manipulation to show zaSuhina their earlier interactions and thus convinces him.Almost everything is better than dropping a literal deus ex machina in the very last episode.
>>3144019Several one cour shows had recap episodes that very season. Still weird, though.
>>3143766Zashu please, stop replicating cats. They do it just fine on their own.
Alphamax's zaShunina 1/7 scale figure release has been delayed to November :("due to various circumstances"
>>3144530I wonder how many people cancelled...
>>3144530my gripe about this thing: why oh why would they not make use of his extremely unique visual trait of floating arms for his figure?! seems like it would add a lot of versatility to the figure to have free floating arms and a couple DX-stage-esque attachments to put the in different locations, and this is literally the only character with that opportunity. oh well, can't really complain as i didn't order it, though desu when preorders were announced i was still fingers crossed for a Nendo of him (and was considering picking this up on release) and now after that shitshow of an ending doubt any more merch of this show would be made (i know i couldn't bear to buy this anymore...)
>>3145017A lot of retailers (like amiami) don't allow preorder cancellations in most cases. I know at least one person on myfigurecollection is trying to sell their preorder, though...
>>3145018That's true, though I'm glad that they allow you to take his cape off, at least. (I ordered it)They could DEFINITELY do the floating arm effect with a nendoroid though! I lost hope for one after the last WonFes, but... maybe if this scale figure doesn't sell terribly, there might be a chance. They've made nendos of worse characters.(*jared leto's joker flashbacks*)
>>3145042I canceled my preorder from Amiami just fine.
>>3145042>>3145052yeh, actually Amiami and most of the other ones will let your first cancellation or two slide if you've purchased regularly from them in the past. they just get mad if you keep doing it.
>>3145126>tells Shindo he's going to erase him>sincerely tries to comfort him by telling him that there is no objective difference between him and the copy, so he's going to be just fineManga zaShunina is cute as fuck, in a scary alien way.
>>3142206I guess there is Seikaisuru Kado #4 which is now archived
Does this one have a translation
>>3139328This one has a translation?
Originally ZaShunina's daughter, Yukika? :O
>>3145424It's the continuation of the previous page. That post contains the translation for both of them.
>>3145764Where's that from?
>>3138953I heard this show is a train wreak is it worth watching for the homo?
>>3145771Kind of. All the homos get cucked and suffer pretty horribly. But watching them lust after the MC is kinda fun, especially in zaShunina's case. It's endearing to watch a higher dimensional being that an't understand humanity at all fall hard in yandere love I guess.It could of been good and the CGI wasn't that bad, but while it looked like it could've been an interesting show about politics and uplifting humanity it ended up devolving in a bizarre Frankenstein's monster of evil ayyliens, shounen fights, magical girls, and romance out of nowhere at the end.
>>3142552How did Shindo make the wrong answer? How is he evil?Bad writing which caused the whole mess/shit ending and him being a psychopath aside, he still had to do something to stop zaShunina from committing genocide in order to forcefully ascend whoever was left. It would be more evil and a worse answer to stand aside and let it happen, even if he did like zaShunina back. Way too many people wear rose tinted glasses when looking at zaShunina's actions and objectives. I like him too and wished there was more homo in the show, but he was still doing something pretty wrong, and they had no real way of stopping him other than something shocking he wouldn't expect, which turned out to be cruel.Hanamori absolutely didn't deserve getting locked away in a dimensional box as a nanny though.
>>3145138Seriously. His lack of understanding in regards to the human sense of self/stream of consciousness is frightening. Also he's a dirty save scummer.
>>3145778That's pretty much inevitable in alien life. Our physical and social evolution has shaped us in a particular way, with particular priorities. Any alien lifeforms who were not subject to the same evolutionary forces and don't share the same organic basis will be profoundly different from us on every single level, down to the basic instincts. As several people in the show correctly pointed out, the problem wasn't whether zaShunina was good or evil, but his basic priorities and drives. A pure-hearted, completely benign creature whose basic instincts don't align with ours can be as dangerous as any evil space conqueror.
>>3145782Yep. I think "normal" aliens would be more like us, but when you start looking at dimensional or energy/information based entities, it becomes a different story. Our morals, ethics, and values mean absolutely nothing to the anisotropic beyond being interesting information to take in. Though they can learn about them over time and emulate them in extreme examples.zaShunina viewed his plan for humanity as an equation, not as a question of right or wrong. Killing of 99 out of 100 people just so the remaining 1 could be ascended was, according to his own alien set of values, in our best interest - and more importantly, in the anisotropic's best interest. It's important to remember humans were essentially a crop they were looking to harvest - not all of it was benign. Though in zaShunina's case, everything became focused around Shindo in particular due to his own growing set of emotions.
>>3145773I almost wish it had gone down the very well traveled road of 'super powered teenage girl saves the world' from the very start; at least it that way it would have been like so many anime from the word go.Instead, it starts off as actually original in the way it features an adult cast dealing with a lot of issues in a serious, thoughtful manner. How much better this would have been if the diplomatic/technological angles had remained the actual thrust to the plot. Also, I cannot help thinking that having Saraika as an anisotropic entity was a terrible idea. What made her character at all interesting was the fact that she was a human with a different perspective.
>>3145777Well, two reasons I called his choice the wrong one, and immoral to the point of evil, in the moral framework given by the show: 1) depriving the world of the technology which was going to end world hunger and eventually neutralize conflict/war (as well as untold advances for medicine and science -- basically the end of a lot of the world's suffering), which he and Saraka definitely knew was a possibility, since the Yukika-based contingency plan involved the wams no longer working because (as Shindo has anticipated) zaShunina had put a sort of kill switch in them which makes them dependent on him and will thus cause them to not function after he's gone....and 2) the other reason is a little more philosophical -- he took away all of humanity's choice, which the show has repeatedly pointed out as important. Mutual agreement to bargains, mutual consent to a deal, the theme established from the very first episode of the show as the thing that Shindo and the narrative find 'good' and desirable, nope, NONE of that is involved in the final conflict. It's just about Shindo and Yukika making a unilateraly decision.And of course the Hanamori thing doesn't help. Yeah, all of that makes me feel his actions in the last three episodes amount to evil.>>3145778Sadly, it seems he does realize that you can't save and reload sentient being like any other mass of information, but way too late -- it takes creating an irreparable conflict with Shindo to do so. I can't help but think that if Shindo had had a chance to TALK to him after he pulled out the giant energy sword, TALK AND RESOLVE THE CONFLICT like his entire strength of character was for the first 2/3 of the show, this could have been learned by zaShu in a way that allowed him to continue having a productive dialogue with humanity. Sadly he doesn't learn it until far too late.
>>3145852English translation where
Episode 12.5 will be an hour and 51 minutes long, and called KADO: Beyond Information.interesting.
>>3145942>1) depriving the world of the technology which was going to end world hunger...You literally cannot blame Shindo for this though. All of the things zaShunina was showing humanity was for the purpose of exposing and attuning them to the anisotropic in an apparently benevolent way, so that he'd have a better chance of ascending some of them. The good they would of done was just a side effect and short lived smokescreen, since he planned to Kado everyone. The kill switch was also on him, not Shindo.>2) the other reason is a little more philosophical -- he took away all of humanity's choice...zaShunina was doing the same exact thing, except his choice involved the death of like 99% of humanity. Shindo and Yukika's choice at the end wasn't ideal, but neither was the situation. They believed it was better for humanity to decide and work for itself to reach the anisotropic if they wanted to. zaShunina was the greater evil (from a human point of view) here.I agree about the tragedy of zaShunina realizing the value of individuality too late. I wish we'd seen negotiation and discourse instead of laser swords, magical girls, and open heart surgery. The two of them were both at fault here, but neither of them could really do much about it. zaShunina was simply following his plan for humanity that he viewed as the best course of action and stuck to it like a machine, and Shindo was in way over his head. Adding in zaShunina's mental and emotional instability didn't help. Even at the end, zaShunina still wanted to ascend humanity, and had only really changed his views about Shindo as an individual in particular. Which is cute in its own way - he'd sacrifice billions to ensure he could ascend just the one guy he loved.
>>3139890>"Won't you join me in the anisotropic?">They both know the answer to that.So was the answer no, even when Shindo was dying?Also, I thought zashunina knew Shindo would ascend since he says after he dies, they've shared everything they could.
It sure does seem the Script was much better than what we got in the anime.
>>3146259Betting it's just the entire series cut down into two hours.
>>3146259Hopefully it will be better than the last 3 eps.
>>3146270I interpreted is as that they knew it was too late in too many ways to count. Shindo was dying, drastic stuff had happened, etc. zaShunina's question was mostly symbolic, a way to express his love and regret in his odd, alien way.
There's no way they'd just give us recap of the previous episodes as episode 12.5 right? I mean it is named KADO: Beyond Information. Maybe we'd get recap and then post-finale. Since the script in bd/DVD seems far better, hopefully toei will follow it or at least not botch it up again. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
>>3146421I don't remember what it felt like to have hope.
>>3146429The only sort of hope I'm putting on it is because I think they might try salvaging the series with something which makes sense and makes us hate the last few episodes less. While I probably shouldn't bother, I am curious as to whether they would show us Shindo and zashunina meeting beyond information.
While we know how zashunina views his relationship with Shindo. Do have the same from Shindo. Like how he views their relationship. I can't seem to be able to read him.
>>3146267>zaShunina was doing the same exact thing, except his choice involved the death of like 99% of humanity.I have to disagree. I have watched the last episodes several times (from streaming it for friends and because I write fic), and nowhere is it explicitly stated that zaShunina's plan would have killed humans. (I can only remember one line of zaShunina's where he agrees that perhaps not all of humanity could ascend - but he planned to test it with Shindo first, and his gifts were meant to ensure success; imo it is not in the anisotropic interest to kill humans, generally - less humans = less information)Even Tsukai's opposition is not based on this - her opposition is to elevating humanity and giving them eternal life, thereby ruining humanity's ephemeral nature, and making them less "human", in her opinion.If danger to humanity were the reason for opposing zaShunina's advancements, then it should have been more explicitly shown and stated in canon, but it's not. zaShunina's gifts DID have the potential to cause untold harm (the Nanomis-hein, especially), but the risks are merely stated in expository dialogue (or not at all), the danger never shown, other than some people getting seasick from the Sansa. Even the people who were sucked into Kado showed no sign of physical harm (Shindo's mom was shown to be perfectly fine).Good storytelling is "show, don't tell". If they wanted to portray anisotoron interference as truly harmful to human lives, then they would have portrayed it as such, showing the ill effects from zaShunina's gifts gradually, as the show went on, triggering chaos in human society. Instead, all we are shown are their positive effects.This was not a life-or-death conflict, but a conflict of ideas.I also think that it would have been far better for Shindo to negotiate with zaShunina, and come to an agreement that would allow humanity to choose their own path - a goal that was brought up repeatedly in the earlier episodes.
>>3146436Toei would have to be blind not to see how poorly the finale was received. I want to hope for an attempt at redemption, on their part, but I'm not holding my breath...
>>3146442If I am to hope it would be because professionally they would have to have the sense to it right this time. Also I can't see how they could make episode 12.5 more awful than what we've already seen in this show.
>>3146442>but I'm not holding my breath...I do understand though.
>>3146438The Word of God says that he instinctually felt drawn to zaShunina and his alien self and felt comfortable around him. Considering he's a clinical psychopath, it makes sense that he'd find an alien mind interesting. No moral judgments there.
>>3146454And he still laid down his life to fulfill zaShu's deepest need. He liked him as much as a human could, I guess.
>>3146454>>3146457Thanks. This is interesting :)
>>3146454>Considering he's a clinical psychopath, it makes sense that he'd find an alien mind interestingI did wonder why the last few episodes seemed weird. There was forced romance in the anime but the pre-animated scripts seem to do more justice to his character. After seeing the anime from the start it felt like the romance was suddenly shoved in our faces. It seemed sort of ooc actually for Shindo.
>>3146440>nowhere is it explicitly stated that zaShunina's plan would have killed humans. It is though - and this has been talked about quite a bit in Kado threads. Human deaths aren't the goal of his plan, but are an admitted byproduct. The vast majority of humanity would not survive being brought into the anisotropic, and zaShunina essentially planned on using people trial-by-error in order to perfect the process to bring as many as he could - especially Shindo. His "gifts" were tools meant to attune humanity to the anisotropic to heighten their chances of surviving the process - the good they would of done for the world was just a byproduct. The anisotropic viewed humanity's eventual, inevitable extinction in a lower dimension as a far bigger problem than what they considered a necessary sacrifice.>Good storytelling is "show, don't tell".And that's the issue right there. zaShunina and the premise of the show was wasted due to terrible execution and plot direction.>I also think that it would have been far better for Shindo to negotiate with zaShunina, and come to an agreement that would allow humanity to choose their own path - a goal that was brought up repeatedly in the earlier episodes.That would of been better and made more sense, but the writers didn't want that and had it so zaShunina wasn't open to talk. So we got the shounen scream charge and magical girl deus ex machina.
>>3146500>The anisotropic viewed humanity's eventual, inevitable extinction in a lower dimension as a far bigger problem than what they considered a necessary sacrifice.It's a bit like Kyubey when you think about it, but nobody wants an Incubator as a husbando.
>>3146501Not quite. Incubators really didn't care; zaShunina did to the extent he possibly could. After all, humanity will die anyway. If one has to choose between letting a whole species die off and saving it for eternity, the choice is obvious.
>>3146267(I made the post you are replying to.)See, the reason zaShu's plan if implemented at that point would have killed people was because it was moving too fast and few would have had the attunedness to the anisotropic needed to survive it -- but if they'd just TALKED about it, zaShu could have been convinced to delay his plan until they became more attuned, or only take ppl who would voluntarily try to go to anisotropic (this seems like the best option. I think many would be willing to try it near the end of their life or in a subsequent generation, and to zaShu millenia is no time at all), or just ANY kind of compromise. zaShu has been willing to listen to reason and compromise with humanity throughout all the other steps of his plan, which is the entire reason Shindo has been there. But we don't get to see them even try any of these or negotiate, it's just all or nothing. Obviously Shindo wouldn't and shouldn't accept him immediately transferring all the humans into the anisotropic and killing a huge amount, but they could have come to a different, mutually agreeable conclusion. The potential of this outcome is also why all that technology improving humanity's life would have come in handy and saved ppl.>zaShunina was doing the exact same thingI agree he ended up making the same kind of immoral unilateral decision when he began expanding Kado to eat the whole world in the last eps. I don't think it was inevitable that he was going to do that -- he was pushed to it following the outcome of his failed proposal to Shindo. Again, negotiation and dialogue could have completely prevented that. I dunno, I just feel like Shindo's actions could have been the lynchpin upon which this more ideal outcome could have hinged......hell, it all could come down to him being too frazzled after being time-stuck for 70hrs to say anything to zaShu at the critical moment, which is so frustratingly sad and pointless. I don't think the writers intended that, though.
>>3146114The physicist girl taught him a bad behavior
Seikasuru Kado Scenario.
>>3146630What's in it?
>>3146580I agree. The whole point of the anime is precisely that it's through dialogue that we can understand one another.What made the ending so awful was precisely its kicking to the side what made Kado unique and went for the typical super-powered fight finale that would make be at home in your average shounen but does a lot of damage to an anime that is supposed to be about negotiation.Ideally, I would have liked Shindo to talk to zaShun and make him understand that humanity has value on an individual level. Then there are a lot of loose ends. I recall Shindo saying that his copies are every bit as real as he is yet they get wiped out without its even being addressed.
>>3146580>See, the reason zaShu's plan if implemented at that point...I'd have to disagree here. People would die because zaShunina had to learn how to ascend them trial-by-error - even with them being more attuned. And as lower dimensional beings, it would take an extraordinarily long time of exposure to the anisotropic for ascension to become "safer" - and even then, there'd probably be a high mortality ratedueto the very nature of the situation. The rate would eventually be better - and given a indefinite amount of time, may even be mitigated. But that would be a VERY long time. But the anisotropic were not interested in risking that. A plague, an asteroid, the heat death of our universe egg - any of these things were something they worried about. They wanted humanity ascended ASAP.>zaShu has been willing to listen to reason and compromise with humanity...And then he went completely off his rocker due to being exposed to human emotions, and the bad writing didn't help. And Shindo DID try to talk to zaShunina, which generally ended in the latter refusing conversation beyond asking him to go with him and trying to kill him. >>3146667 has the right of it - the premises of negotiation and learning, and of searching for the right answer were thrown out, and zaShunina was essentially turned into an incurable and ruthless information addict who was unwilling to talk and had to by beaten by methods that didn't fit the majority of the anime.>I don't think it was inevitable that he was going to do thatI agree with you here. Ascension was always the anisotropic's goal, but I think zaShunina jumped the gun due to his newfound feelings and obsession with Shindo, and wasn't willing to be patient. But in the end, humanity was just something the anisotropic wanted to harvest and preserve ASAP, even if it meant excessive waste in the process.>I don't think the writers intended that, though.Who knows what the writers intended. It turned into a complete mess at the end.
>>3146667>Then there are a lot of loose ends. I recall Shindo saying that his copies are every bit as real as he is yet they get wiped out without its even being addressed.Yep. Plenty of loose ends. They kinda did address it though - all those Shindo's were perfect clones and had their own (similar) thoughts and feelings. And so, zaShunina's murder of them all is made all the more jarring. Yes, they're not the original Shindo, as in they are not that original single consciousness, but they are the same person in another stream of thought and body, and killing them is still murder. It served to show how unhinged zaShunina was, and how alien his mindset is. Towards the end, he realized the implications of him copy and pasting a special individual he felt for.
>>3146700Yeah, I agree that the time would help, but not enough. Even with a few hundred years of technological advancement, trying to implant a mouse brain into a human body probably wouldn't end well. And that's being generous.
>>3146702They don't address it well enough but then again that is probably the least of the finale's problems. Virtually everything about the last three episodes is an utter mess. And it has been stated before but it bears repeating, the whole thing with Hanamori was awful. If they absolutely needed someone to play babysitter for a whole 16 years, it shouldn't have been him. Hell, it's shoddy even for Yukika. Granted, I could not see her as an actual character as she is almost the very definition of an deus ex machina but how unfair is it that she had to spend her formative years in a closed environment like that. Perhaps there was no other option but the show does not put enough stress on how damaging such an upbringing must be.It would have been amusing, in a way, if Yukika decided upon being released from the time cocoon that she wants nothing to do with any of this and wiped out the Earth or something. The ending was so bad that going completely bonkers would at least make it slightly interesting.
>>3146709>he ending was so bad that going completely bonkers would at least make it slightly interesting.I agree. At least go whole hog. Make it mind-blowingly bizarre instead of just a hearty serving of emotional torture porn out of nowhere.
>>3146709Yukika's upbringing was so unhealthy psychologically...no way she has anyting like a normal mindset or values. They're lucky she didn't do that or something else equally out of left field.
>>3146700>>3146706>humans inevitably getting fucked up by the transitionThat's true. The mouse brain analogy is pretty good. But then give it a few thousand, or a few million years, or skip the problem and make it a voluntary process for people who are old and dying and willing to be the guinea pigs for a chance at anisotropic existence. It doesn't make sense that a being for whom 14 billion years was the blink of an eye would immediately want to do this process with everyone...i guess he was going off his rocker and it gave him a frantic urge to do it? I dunno. Silly.
>>3146259I wanna punch that stupid fucking cat in the face...>that screen in the bottomLooks like the editing of a clipshow. Yeah i don't have hope for this thing fixing anything.
>>3146741Yep. He was completely off his rocker - remember, even if humanity could naturally reach the anisotropic in thousands or even millions of years, Shindo was going to die in decades. So zaShunina jumped the shark.There's also the possibility of humanity dieting out in the future, which scared the piss out of the anisotropic, who weren't willing to play babysitter or risk it I guess.
>>3146777Dying out*Plus, most of the anisotropic were probably anxious to start interacting with humanity ASAP, but didn't want to have to descend to the egg to do it. They were likely being a bit impatient and selfish.
>>3146742Probably not fix, but it is named Beyond information. So maybe we'd get at least new content not known by watching the anime. Also 1hr 51min of previous episodes clips? Most of the viewers would try skipping to half or near-end of the episode just to see whether there is new content. Surely they know we'd be more annoyed right?
>>3146777It's been stated that zaShunina's viewpoint was an oddity among the Anisotropic, and that ascending humanity wasn't his original intent. He didn't want to ascend them until after he fell in love with mankind (and specifically Shindo). The rest of the Anisotropic were content to just watch.
>>3146732It's never acknowledged, either. They could at least make it as a terrible but necessary sacrifice instead of 'oh look, isn't this plot point so clever?'. And Yukika becomes even more deus ex machina by disappearing once her task is over. They didn't even bother weaving her into the plot anymore, her job as Madoka 2.0 was accomplished so there was nothing else for her do...makes you wonder how Hanamori feels about that. We see Saraka is fine with it but then again she is Yukika's mother only in biological terms. It was Hanamori who raised Yukika from the very start and then she up and leaves to do some soul searching or whatever, probably never to return again.I can't help but think that if Shindo and co. can make a pocket in which time flows differently, with that kind of ability to manipulate time, they'd be able to come up with something better.>>3146741This. It seems that even as humanity now stands, there are some people who can ascend. So why not make it voluntary- as everything up to that point- and see which of those want to take the risk? Couldn't zaShu identify those willing and able to go for it as opposed to force ascending everyone?I bet the scientist lady would go for it if given the chance. I think we all know from the very moment zaShu appeared on screen that he would turn into the show's mandatory villain at one point or another. I just wish they had not gone the very trodden road with horrible execution on top of everything else.
>>3146812There are people who have a chance of ascending, but the high mortality rate was still there. zaShunina would still have to kill a bunch in the process until he was able to perfect the transition. And if he were to only get volunteers, he'd probably not have enough disposable test runs to perfect it. And yeah, it's sad they went that route with him. I liked the yandere alien bit, but not enough to offset the rest of the story's faults.>>3146796His being equipped with Kado and the "gifts" and not being stripped of his higher tiered powers strongly imply he was there with the rest of the anisotropics backing. I would be very shocked if they weren't in agreement with him - we know they worry about humanity's survival for their own purposes. That said, he likely went off script when he developed human feelings and sperged out with Shindo. My guess is the anisotropic planned on the process taking a longer time and not being so forcefully imposed, but weren't exactly opposed enough to zaShunina rushing it to intervene.
>>3146898They don't even touch upon it, though. The very concept of using volunteers doesn't even seem to cross anyone's minds, at any point.There is actually a suitable demographic that could have been explored: children with untreatable diseases. As per zaShun's explanation, children are more attuned to the anisotropic because their minds are still pliable. There are unfortunately many children who cannot be cured (does any of zaShun's inventions apply to medical science?) and will die all too soon.They would be prime candidates. True, many might still die but they are doomed anyway. Just walk into a cancer ward, test the kids to see if they do show potential, if they do and their chances of surviving any other way are moot and if they agree, then give it a try.
>>3146910Again, it's an issue of quantity. Volunteers with nothing left to lose are not enough lab rats. And they don't touch on that because it's unthinkable. Human test subjects with a staggeringly high mortality rate, no matter their existing circumstances, are not ethical. Logical, yes, but not "right". Especially children.There are plenty of things we let people volunteer for that are dangerous, and others we don't. We let people get used as test subjects for new drugs and procedures, but generally don't let them get tested as target dummies for new guns. What zaShunina was doing was somewhere in the middle - extreme chance of death with "good" results possible. But if he needs 10,000,000 people to ascend 1 or whatever, it still won't do.And again, due to bad writing, there was simply the fact zaShunina wasn't willing to talk, despite it being the rational thing to do. But hurr durr human emotions make god a retard now.
>I missed you, Shindo
Do we have any further info about episode 12.5? I know the Kado twitter has released a couple of clips and screenshots, but I've seen nothing else regarding its content.
>>3154043None that I know of. Not even a release date yet.Between that and the zaShunina scale figure's second delay (it's releasing in December now, Alphamax says), they're really dragging this out...
>>3154495It wasn't released in late October?The figure's delay into December was announced a good while ago, though. I'm pretty sure I canceled my preorder in October, or early November at latest, and it had been re-slated for December then.
>>3154502I still have mine on preorder, and I got an email from amiami back in October saying that it had been delayed to November. I had to visit Alphamax's website to find out about the second delay (amiami has not emailed me yet)
Still no OST available? I know it's in the second BD, I thought someone would have uploaded it somewhere by now.
>>3158232No one is ever going to upload anything Kado related, anon.