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Racist symbols of hatred & bigotry? Or neutral good product of their time that was actually fair for the age?
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>>101104552
the latter
stereotype =/= bigotry
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I'd say a product of the time. Even to this day, I don't really get the backlash as they were the ones who spurred Dumbo how to fly, which leads to all his successes later in the movie.
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>>101104552
A bitching libtard pussy? Or just a faggot?
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Sunflower was a great character and deserves princess status
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>>101104552
They strongly remind me of Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids, only if they were from a few decades prior and also singing crows.

What makes them principally different from the Cosby Kids? I never see people complain about them.
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>>101104552
Second one. A lot of people today confuse racism's definition. It's original definition is as follows
>prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Of course now it has a second one, which the crows somewhat fit into. Up until the final line.
>the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Here's what disney did for me when I watched this. Made me hate old biddies and those gossiping-shrew-type wives and ladies of the neighborhood because they're depicted as being absolute rumor mongering biggoted bitches. (The old elephants).

This baby elephant is driven from his home and hated till the mouse helps him out. Later in the movie these crows come along, laughing at the idea of an elephant flying, but not at Dumbo. Then they even go so far as to help him achieve flight and love those big old ears.

Bonus points; they're the friendliest characters anywhere.

Bonus bonus points: Considering the year this came out (1941) we should consider two things; all cartoons played stereotypes of everything, and there was heavy segregation and hatred. Disney may have done some stereotyping (but hardly any terrible kind) and they certainly defied segregating, including them in the movie, having them have a singing part, and showing them as the main good thing to happen to Dumbo.
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>>101104552
Disney, then as now, exploited the staff.
A lot of the animators went on strike and attempted to unionize.
Didn't work. Enough stayed to finish the picture and the effort collapsed.
The crows are modeled on the people who walked out.
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>>101104672
Both.
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>>101104552
um, sorry sweety, even responsibility is bigotry now
*sips $15 latte while wearing a che gueverra t-shirt
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>>101104831
I heard that was the clowns. The ones that have a scene where they get drunk, talk about how they get paid too little for how hard they work, and start singing a song about going on a strike.
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>>101104791
This.
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>>101104855
>sips $15 latte while wearing a che gueverra t-shirt

Get the fuck out of here and back to wherever the fuck you hail from. Just because schools out doesn't mean you can visit 4chan
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>>101104552
Obviously the latter. They are stereotypes but as >>101104791 points out there's nothing hateful about them. They're the good guys.
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>>101104889
Might want to take your own advice if you can't identify such obvious sarcasm.
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>>101104552
I think real racism is wanting to kill a certain race including their childeren and not caring from how much you hate them, not making black crows talk like uppity black guys. When compared to real hate crimes, its pretty silly to call joke stereotypes in movies racist.
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Racist symbol of hatred & bigotry? Or neutral good product of their time that was actually fair for the age ?
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>>101104986
oy vey goys
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>>101104552
I still don't understand why those crows are considered a racist stereotype.
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>>101104916
I'm going to assume that you believe that I took that "sips $15 latte" thing seriously.

I do not. I know that bit was sarcasm.

What I was referring to is that the post was *sips $15 latte while wearing a che gueverra t-shirt*

Get that roleplaying asterik shit out of here. The fact I have to explain this makes it clear you're a newfag. So I will copy paste.

Get the fuck out of here and back to wherever the fuck you hail from. Just because schools out doesn't mean you can visit 4chan
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>>101104991
I genuinely don't get how the uncle remus from song of the south is racist. He's just a friendly black guy.
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>>101105003
But it's fun to act like a fag
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>>101104991
It wasn't a racist stereotype as it was a symbolism for the Jim Crow Laws.
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>>101104855
> Drop the chopsticks, pal
And she's one of those "cultural appropriation" nazis too? "Vhee must keep zhe Chinese Race pyuhre"? Fuck outta here.
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>>101104791
IIRC one of the crow voice actors wasn’t allowed to see his own work at the premiere
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>>101105024
>I was only pretending
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>>101105033
Was that from the theater denying it or Disney?
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>>101104855
hated that character. glad she died, but now they've brought her back.
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they behave more reasonably than irl niggers
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>>101105076
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>>101104552
Whole thing feels like “you can’t show those crows! They’re black! And that’s racist!”
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>>101105102
How do you function, day to day
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>>101104791
Precisely.

>>101105033
Are you maybe getting mixed up with the actor who played Uncle Remus in Song of the South?
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>>101105133
He's not wrong. This is the same shit as the Apu thing.
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>>101104791
I wholeheartedly agree with most of this anon's point here, good job.

However there IS racism surrounding the Crows, as someone else pointed out, that one wasn't even allowed to see his work, and it's kind of a sick joke that the leader's name is "Jim Crow." That was fucked up then and it's even more fucked up now.

Crows themselves are okay. Their dialect has become a bit dated and can be seen as stereotyping but in the context of the film they are the ONLY characters to come to the aide of Dumbo and Timothy once they realized how fucked up the entire situation was.
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>>101105029
Maybe she’s just fat and doesn’t want to share her food.
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>
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>>101105160
>it's kind of a sick joke that the leader's name is "Jim Crow." That was fucked up then and it's even more fucked up now.
I dunno, I think it was probably worse then. Kids watching Dumbo for the first time these days won't be aware of or old enough to learn about segregation, so they won't even make the connection.
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>>101105160
>>101105249
>and it's kind of a sick joke that the leader's name is "Jim Crow."
It's a sick joke, but one that was only ever seen in the model sheet, never named in the movie. I'm not sure at what point the model sheet became public knowledge, but I have a good feeling it wasn't intended to, for that exact reason. I'm guessing it ended up on a DVD feature or art book, and someone wasn't savvy enough to block out or change the name.
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>>101104552
Are you working for Honest Trailers?
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>>101105160
His name isn’t even Jim. The crows aren’t named. They used “Jim” on model sheets and scripts, which was a semi-racist move on the part of the production staff, but it’s not like anyone was that aware until a bunch of jackasses decided to meme “the dumbo crows are racist” in to existence. This shit is like proto-Pepe. A bunch of people ran with the “this character is racist” meme and now Disney pretends Dumbo doesn’t exist except when they have to pretend they aren’t sweeping it under the rug.
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>It wasn't blatantly racist decades ago so it can't be perceived racist now!

That's not how it works, friendo.
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>>101105326
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>>101105326
It's stereotypical, but not racist.
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>>101105269
I could’ve sworn one of the crows briefly calls him “Jim.” It’s not like the whole name was dropped, but just calling him Jim kinda covers the joke.
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>>101105676
I went and double checked some scenes on Youtube and couldn't find anything, and the Disney Wiki says they weren't named in-movie either. The leader crow gets referred to as "brothah" at best.
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>>101105700
https://youtu.be/TXqd5d-zHMQ

At about 0:25 in here, it sounds like the crow with glasses says “Jim, look down there brotha,” but it goes so fast I could be mistaken and only hearing it because I’m looking for it.

In any case, even if it’s there, it’s an incredibly minor detail that no one really should be noticing unless they’re paying way too much attention. But I think it may still be technically there.
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>>101105746
Does it really matter one way or the other? It's obvious they were crows in order to make the reference. Calling one of them Jim or not doesn't change that.
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>>101105746
I think he's saying "just"




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