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Is Carnage a good villain?
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>>103499163
no, he's terribly written
but he's pretty cool
>>
No. He’s an edgier spin-off of an edgy spin-off. Woody Harrelson is gonna play him like shit, too.

Unless you’re talking about Flash Venom, Venomfags need to leave.
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>>103499163
He's good at getting the point of his character across; a lunatic who loves murder fused with a cool and scary looking alien that gives him super powers. Most of the time he's not super deep, but he's effective and threatening, so yes he is a good villain.

I also liked how Cletus was the first person a symbiote fully integrated with, so that they had a singular identity. It made the symbiote seem more interesting to me, that this psychopathic predator was its ideal host, and thus even more sinister compared to what happened with Peter and Eddie.
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No. He represents the very worst of injecting XTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME into every facet of 90s comics.
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>>103499315
That's an interesting point never realized he was the only one who fully integrated like that.
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>>103499163
The people that consider him a good villain are the same people that consider Joker a good villain. But are just edge lords.
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>>103499163
>villain
>>
So much smug in this thread. Must be dull being so above it all and mature.
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>>103499163
no. he's just insane and one dimensional.
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>>103499468
t. Brainlet
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>>103499468
hello Liefild
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Well written? Hell no. Fun? Sure. Not EVERY villain needs to be fucking Shakespeare. He's a mad killer, and he loves it. Sometimes simplicity is refreshing
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>>103499225
>flash venom

you have to be 18 to post here
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>>103499163
>>103499336
>>103499356
>>103499482

hey look. it's people who don't understand that chaotic evil is still evil and villainous.

joker isn't a bad villain because he's crazy. he's a bad villain because he's overused and batman is an outmoded character. i don't give a shit about a rich guy that beats up criminals. i don't identify with rich dudes that save other rich people at aristocratic parties. couldn't care less.
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>>103499163
No. He's not even an interesting "pure evil" villain.
>>
Sometimes I wonder what other serial killers would be like if they had gotten the symbiote instead of Cletus. Like Norman Bates or Jeffrey Dahmer.
>>
In small doses, yes.
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>>103499163
He's a perfect Spider-Man villain for a few reasons.

Peter started his crusade after Ben's death. That tragic event compelled him to save as many people as possible. This is compounded by the loss of Gwen not long into his career. Parker is driven by an almost desperate need to protect life. Carnage then, is his biggest nightmare.

Most of Spidey's rogues want to either make money, or take over a territory or desire power; everyone from the Goblin, to Ock to the Kingpin are all fixated on lofty goals and whilst they'll all kill, that's just a means to an end. Other's have a personal grudge against Spider-Man, like Venom or Kraven. These are villains who are simply a direct threat to Peter and not his loved ones or civilians.

Carnage is something different, he the the physical embodiment of murder. He kills for pleasure. He kills for the fame and celebrity it brings. He kills at random and in large numbers. His look is a walking, blooded body. There's no plan, no grand scheme. Carnage just likes killing and the infamy it gives him. He is the polar opposite of Spider-Man. One wants indiscriminate preservation of life, the other craves for the indiscriminate termination of life.


There's another facet to Carnage's character though; the fact that Spider-Man can not stop him. Every other villain and challenge he's faced, he's won the day alone at some point. No matter who challenges the Spider, Parker has put them down. Peter has never defeated Carnage all by himself. He's needed Venom and the Fantastic Four, or Iron Man, or the Avengers, or most of New York. The closest Peter has come to besting Carnage, was when Cletus was tricked into trying to kill his one and only childhood friend without the aid of the symbiote, and Peter sucker punched him from behind with a giant piece of lumber. Every other time they've faced off, it's taken a small army to bring him down. Carnage isn't just a walking obituary, he's one that Peter is powerless to stop.
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>>103500521

There's another facet to Carnage's character though; the fact that Spider-Man can not stop him. Every other villain and challenge he's faced, he's won the day alone at some point. No matter who challenges the Spider, Parker has put them down. Peter has never defeated Carnage all by himself. He's needed Venom and the Fantastic Four, or Iron Man, or the Avengers, or most of New York. The closest Peter has come to besting Carnage, was when Cletus was tricked into trying to kill his one and only childhood friend without the aid of the symbiote, and Peter sucker punched him from behind with a giant piece of lumber. Every other time they've faced off, it's taken a small army to bring him down. Carnage isn't just a walking obituary, he's one that Peter is powerless to stop.

For all of Slott's failings, the one thing he got ride was the Red Goblin arc. Carnage had not shown up in a Spider-Man comic in nearly 20 years until that story. He's been kept strong and never been made to job as background fodder like Shocker. Pete's reaction to seeing it after so long was perfect. Spider-Man was perfectly happy to confront Norman Osborn and trade quips with him. The second that he realized Norman was wearing the Carnage symbiote, Peter shit himself with fear and ran as fast as his webs could carry him. The jokes stopped.
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>>103499163
He's a very good villain, the only people who think he's shallow or one dimensional have only seen parts of him in maximum Carnage or early appearances.

He's a character who is so broken he tries to put that brokeness on others, he's pitiable, he's pathetic, he's weak, he's violent. Carange is a lot of things, and is especially good in events, but ultimately, you're supposed to understand and disdain him.
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>>103500544
The last bit of evidence that I think makes him a good Spidey villain is how Pete is indirectly responsible for him. Pete brought Venom to Earth and started the chain of events that caused him to bond with Brock. That weighed on Peter for a time when Venom was a villain. He was very fortunate however that Venom had a moral compass and very rarely took a life, in fact he's saved countless numbers of lives over the decades. All told, if it were just Venom that Spider-Man was responsible for, then he'd be able to sleep easy knowing what a hero Brock and Flash turned out to be. Sadly for him, it was just Venom. If he hadn't brought the black suit to Earth, Carnage would never have existed. Cletus would have rotted away in jail for life. As it stands, hundreds of people have died due to a mistake Peter made.

I'd say he's a fantastic villain when used properly. He represents everything that Peter is afraid of. The problem was that Carnage has very rarely been allowed to live up to his potential. His debut was 90's XTREEME. Maximum Carnage was decent but overlong. Carnage Cosmic was retarded. A villain is only as good as his stories, and Cletus' weren't very good. Luckily for him, the last 15 years worth of stories have all been really enjoyable. You can actually buy a Carnage book knowing you'll have a good time.

t. Someone who has all his trades and more merch than he should.
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He is exactly what he should be for a villain
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Carnage-Man was truly refreshing, honestly.
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>>103500602
He still dead?
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>>103500644
Carnage? Nah, he bounced back pretty quickly. Then Osborn took his symbiote.
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>>103500521
>Carnage is something different, he the the physical embodiment of murder. He kills for pleasure. He kills for the fame and celebrity it brings. He kills at random and in large numbers. His look is a walking, blooded body. There's no plan, no grand scheme. Carnage just likes killing and the infamy it gives him. He is the polar opposite of Spider-Man. One wants indiscriminate preservation of life, the other craves for the indiscriminate termination of life.
This is partly true, Carnage's general motivation is to be an agent of senseless violence because in his mind there was no sense to what happened to him and this is his means to shwo that to people. He is that chaos, he is the senselessness.
>>103500544
as for this the reason he was kept out of Spiderbooks for so long is because he was too strong, you couldn't have him sh ow up and get jobbed by Spiderman because it'd reduce his impact and this is the same problem they had with Eddie, they obviously couldn't do that with Cletus though. It honestly made no sense for Norman to want to use the Carnage symbiote, the suit is Cassiday, and if you take it into you you become him, Norman is not stupid enough to try and use it. That being said, Slott got more than that wrong, for example, Eddie gives Peter the suit for a powerboost towards the end, but that doesn't make sense either because in the canon of the books it wasn't able to enhance him like Eddie because of his radioactive blood.
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>>103500644
Cletus is imprisoned. Carnage symbiote is somewhere. Norman had it but ditched it.
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>>103500682
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>>103500682
Cletus is in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
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>>103500708
Jesus Christ. At least Sentry didn't toss him out there this time.
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>>103500602
I need pictures! Pictures of symbiotes being adorable goofballs!
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>>103500742
it's fine, even when Sentry did it he just had a pleasant nap.
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>>103500682
How did e survive the blast of the bomb then?
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>>103500773
Carnage's love for Cletus shielded him with plot armor.
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>>103500760

RIP little guy.
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>>103500825

Twice.
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Recommended Reading:

Family Feud
U.S.A
Minimum Carnage
Its a Wonderful Life
Mind Bomb
AXIS: Carnage
Carnage 1-16
Maximum Carnage
Web of Carnage
Ultimate Carnage/Ultimate Clone Saga

Further reading:
Venom vs Carnage
Deadpool vs Carnage
Carnage's debut

Avoid:
Superior Carnage
Carnage Cosmic
The Time Before
Living in Oblivion
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>>103499163

Carnage is essentially what Venom was supposed to be, a truly hideous antithesis to Peter's morals. Unfortunately that slot was already occupied by Norman Osborne, and the existence of both Norman and Venom makes Carnage redundant. The terrible writing on top of all that makes Carnage little more than a cool looking, but forgettable villain.
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>>103500773
Slott is a terrible writer who doesn't understand symbiotes or spiderman, it's cool.
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>>103500851
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>>103500877
>not the whole Carnage 50 issue run
>not the carnage versus venom internet shenanigans
>recommending ultimate carnage
>recommending deadpool versus carnage
>not recommending the Sam Nova and Carnage stuff
PLZ
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>>103500521
When said like that I would agree, but the issue is that Cletus had never been written as compelling other than Axis. He's always written as either "XTREEEMEEE" or just a random senseless killer. The aspect of Carnage being treated like a massive event, and emphasizing his hatred for Spider-Man for essentially preserving life where he enjoys death would work when it's not done almost for laughs like in Maximum.
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>>103499163
Not really but he's serviceable.
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>>103500918
I will go to my grave before I tell anyone to read Carnage Unleashed. I purposefully left it even off just so nobody would even try and read it. I somehow manage to own the floppies of that abomination as well as a collected trade of it (and if I ever buy Venomnibus Vol 1, i'll have it a 3rd time where i'll promptly kill myself.)

Ultimate gets a pas for QT Carnagefu.
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>>103499631
Now I just want a cape villain who is literally Shakespeare.
>goes around stealing scripts from Italian writers
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>>103501008

This is someone's fetish.
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>>103500877
Got any recs for venom? I've always been passingly interested in the thing they did with flash, but I never did more than read some pages that were posted.
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>>103499163
as good as venom, take that as you will
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>>103499163
he's more like a plot device than a villain, he presents a challenging problem to be solved, but as a character there isn't much there
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>>103500877
>Its a Wonderful Life

Could probably couple this with ASM Annual 28, since it expands on the childhood friend scene.
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>>103501090
Venom's problem is that he took off and became the posterboy for the 90s along with Spawn. Whilst buying 2 trades and an Omni gets you 99% of all of Carnage's books, Venom has a million stories and a lot of them were written back in a time you need nostalgia for.

Venomnibus vol 1 and 2 along with the Venom vs Spider-Man Omni collects all of his pre-millenium books.

Personally, I don't find there's as many good Venom books as there are Carnage stories. His overexposure ruined him. Birth of Venom will give you his debut. The Separation Anxiety trade will give you my personal favorite Venom story (The Exile Returns.) After that, you're better off just reading Remender's Flash Venom/Space Knight and the new Venom on going. There's fun times to be had with Anti-Venom but you'd need to have read some classic Venom first before reading it.
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>>103500973
The thing with Spider-Man villains is that their job isn't so much to be compelling in and of themselves, but to make Peter more compelling by highlighting what makes him different from them or what aspects of him it takes to defeat them. There are a few exceptions but they generally took time to happen and stem from characters who weren't written to have that amount of depth when they were created. It's telling that the Punisher, one of the rare who went on to become a regular protagonist of his own, was largely inspired by an already existing protagonist.
That's why those villain protagonist movies Sony is planning are doomed to fail, Peter's supporting cast largely exists to, well support him.
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>>103501008
>will go to my grave before I tell anyone to read Carnage Unleashed. I purposefully left it even off just so nobody would even try and read it.
That's what makes Carnage and Eddie so great, they're fucking hilarious and if you deprive people of old men trying to write about how computers work you are a sadist.
It's comedy gold.
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>>103501079
Have you seen symbiote fans around here? Fetishists are what kept symbiotes relevant, I'm fairly sure.
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>>103501238
The San Francisco era felt completely skippable, like you can read Lethal Protector and then just jump ahead to The Exile Returns.
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>>103501238
Everything Venom is good up until they kill off Anne Weying. Because RAD EDDIE was all about 90s cheese and being over the top and funny while still managing to tell a story about the character(s) of Venom. Symbiote invasion, the government agent saga with chocolate, the wolverine versus minis, lethal protector, the punisher team ups, hulk versus, the madness, it's all gold until the writers forget that that's what made him good instead of making him a generic black spiderman clone bad guy.

Then there's Anti Venom , sinister spiderman, and the agent venom stuff after that.
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>>103501358
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>>103499940
>that save other rich people at aristocratic parties.
Batman fights crime on the streets though.
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>>103499163
He's a serial killer written by people who don't know how serial killers' brains work
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>>103501425
THIS DIALOGUE NEVER GETS OLD
fucking story time this bitch
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>>103499940
Joker is bad because they keep upping the stakes on him and having him kill thousands, there's literally no reason to keep him alive, or a reason they can't kill him besides Batman wanting to fuck him.
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>>103501624
You mean other than money?
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>>103501135
Someone really needs to write a mini detailing Kasady's days as a serial killer before his got the suit.

There's depth to the character, it's just that people only dedicate a couple of pages to it. Ellis had a huge chance with Mind Bomb to get into Kasady's head, but he spent too much of it being his usual edgelord self.

Kasady wants to find his place in the world, he wants the world to take notice of him and he'll do anything to get that attention. This is a big reason as to why he kills. His debut had him signing all of his kills with his name. Conway's run had him getting baited by a reported purposefully getting his name wrong and downplaying his accomplishments. By the end of the run, he was perfectly willing to summon an Elder God to wipe out humanity. He wasn't doing it to end the world, he was doing it for the accomplishment.

Cletus isn't a fan of loose ends like childhood friends or surviving victims. He will actively hunt them down and murder them just so people cant say they've ever escaped him.

He's been characterized as someone who wants family. Even though he murdered his own grandmother, murdered his mothers dog, attempted to kill his mother and then either murdered his father (who rescued him from his mother) or had him put away for life depending on the comic you read. He even pushed a girl in front of a bus because she rejected him. Despite all that, it's clear he wants some kind of family life. He had a dysfunctional family with Shriek. He's kidnapped Dr. Kafka and other shrinks and treated them as significant others. He took over an entire midwestern town and forced a family to pretend he was the man of the house. He's even the only one to truly bond with his symbiote.

He has clear motives, backstory, goals and personality quirks. It's just all been undercooked like his overall position as a major Spider-Man villain. He's probably the biggest missed opportunity in Spider-Man's rogues gallery.
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>>103501730
I'm talking in universe, you could easily move things around and put a damper on hsi kill count to make it more reasonable and make him not get out as often, but editorial would never do that.

Joker used to be fun too before he became overly serious.
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>>103501739
>He has clear motives, backstory, goals and personality quirks. It's just all been undercooked like his overall position as a major Spider-Man villain. He's probably the biggest missed opportunity in Spider-Man's rogues gallery.
I'd say he was cooked jsut right since you can name so much of him right off the bat and because shitty writers tend not to try and use him cause "he's icky EEEEEEEEEW" kinda like the punisher but without the same appeal of "trying to fix the character". He's got a rich character and I'm glad most people can't see it because they don't read him, or else we'd have an Eddie situation where he's had his character raped for years to the point where the Venom movie seems like a fucking foreign concept.
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Finding a goo monster alien inside you is creepy.
Having one bond into your blood and turn ALL OF YOU into the monster is horrifying.

Cletus can work in small doses because there’s not a lot to him. He’s Charles Manson with Hillbilly turned up to 11 plus Alien.
Short minis or a self contained arc work when they focus on the horror.

That’s why USA was nice, because it focused on what a horrible bastard he can be.
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>>103501790
>Joker used to be fun too before he became overly serious.

I think Face-Off Joker would be too edge even for Clete
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>>103502602
christ face off joker was too edge for everybody
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>>103501456
he fights crime everywhere, even space.
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>>103501739
>Someone really needs to write a mini detailing Kasady's days as a serial killer before his got the suit.

I got the impression that they might be doing something like that with the upcoming Web of Venom one-shot.
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>>103501858
>He’s Charles Manson

I thought more Richard Ramirez.

>squalid metalheads
>worshiped evil (Satan for RR, chaos for Cletus)
>graffitied their crime scenes with blood
>some of the lines in Maximum Carnage also reminded me of shit like pic-related
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>>103504101
I agree, manson was more a manipulator, they're only the same in that they both had "families" and they both played with the beach boys.
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>>103501358

In fairness to Hama, Carnage Unleashed was a year or two before most people had access to the internet, neither he, nor most of the readers, could be expected to know what it was or how it worked.
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>>103499163
The only time he was actually interesting was during the whole Carnage-Man thing, and then they went and threw that away because gotta have dat edge.
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>>103504418
I can't hate Hama. As atrocious as his dialogue was and as weird as his plots could get, he was Eddie's only consistent writer during the 1990s and actually tried to give his books direction and a recurring supporting cast.
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>>103504418
>>103504499
I love hama, I love Carnage and Venom, and I LOVE cheesy writing.

This mini was god's gift to comedy.
>>
I think Carnage has a lot of potential but for most of his existence no one knew how to use him effectively so he just became known as a one-note character. It's only been the past 10 years that he's begun to be used more effectively and thoughtfully. Really there's not much different between Joker and Carnage. Joker could be used as thoughtlessly as Carnage (and has been) and Carnage could be used with more depth like Joker.
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>>103501052
This is japanese villainous Shakespeare.
It wasn't that good.
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>>103500499
Shut up Boco
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>>103499163
yes, he is terrifying. Random death is horrible, stop being a little bitch and face it.
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>>103501790
>before he became overly serious.
oh the ironing
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>>103500877
This is a good cover.
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>>103500602
>>103500682
>>103500698
>>103500742
I hate when they give him white teeth.
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>>103508646
you should check out the Carnage solo run covers, every single one was a 10/10
>>103508652
>I hate when they give him white teeth.
It's as bad when they just make him solid red with no black and a goo mouth
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>>103500565
This
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>>103499163
He's the Lex Luger of comic book villains. Great look but everything else around that sucks
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>>103499163
He's literally based on the Joker so yes.
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>>103500521
>>103500544
>>103500565
So basically, you like the Batman and Joker kind of dynamics.
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>>103499163
The idea is good but with that much power in a maniacs hand, i dont think carnage was used to his absolute potential. His whole premise is really dark. But they never could use it in a spiderman setting.
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>>103500565
>Carnage Cosmic was retarded.
That was a what if, and a fun but mediocre one at that, the person writing it wasn't too keen on his character either.
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>>103510680
I would honestly argue that Carnage does that dynamic better than Joker.
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>>103510827
Carnage does some of it better I think, for example, he's way more threatening than the Joker and you get the sense that every minute he's out on the street is another 20 lives lost. There's also no immediate way to kill him like the Joker, so you can't just wait for his big stupid carny plan that's clown themed to boot and then kick his ass with a bat or something.

The thing is the dynamic between him and Spider-man for him being Venom and Spidey's responsibility isn't really done outside of his inital appearance and Maximum Carnage, it's done alright there, but maximum ends on a wet fart wit nothing being resolved or learned. Carnage has also not really been culturally anchored quite like Joker which means he's not as heavily tied to Spidey as Joker is to Bats, which is for the best considering how Joker's been handled over the years post killing joke and TDKR.
>>
Carnage is a reflection of a reflection
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>>103506344
Well yeah, the Japanese wrote it.
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>>103499163
He's being wasted on Spider-Man. He should absorb Scorn and become an Iron Man villain.
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>>103500521
>>103500544
>>103500565

This is how we got midichlorians or whatever the fuck they're called.

Stop. Explaining. Shit.

Comics are pulp meant to entertain for 10 minutes. You colossally pretentious fags.
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>>103501790
I'm honestly surprised that The Joker hasn't gotten a instant death penalty in universe. Clearly the man isn't going to be cured from his insanity and he keeps murdering people nonstop.
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>>103511347
See, that's what I'm talking about, The Joker loves what he does, through and through, him breaking mentally was the best thing that ever happened to him since he has a purpose now, and so you cna't have him be a murderous scumbag wiht no powers who keeps being allowed to walk the streets because that just hurts his character. Another thing is why would this man keep getting henchman, he kills most of them and he doesn't pay them, you're better off working for any other 2 bit thug, even killer croc.

Carnage, for all his pomp and strutting, doesn't like who he is or his life, he enjoys killing, he enjoys aspects of his life, but deeps down he hates himself. But you can get away with not killing him, or killing him and still be able to re use him because he's dangerous, you can study him learn how to fight him, he can always regen, etc.
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>>103501478
Axis carnage had the best interpretation of his mind so far
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>>103499163
did he ever hunting mutant?
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>>103500682
>Cletus is imprisoned. Carnage symbiote is somewhere.
>writers think you can separate Cletus and Carnage
In a world where 70% integration with a symbiote is amazing, Cletus is clocking in at 100% right off the bat and honestly probably exceeds that.
Doesn't he have the symbiote so deeply ingrained in him that it's impossible to fully extract even for Richards?

Anywho, Carnage is a good threat. Put him down anywhere in a story and Heroes immediately need to deal with him, not because there will be collateral casualties but because casualties is the whole point.
His powerset makes him a threat to basically every hero and any hero who can be said to curbstomp Carnage still has to deal with minimizing dead bystanders.
As an aisde: Has a telepath ever tried a psychic assault on Carnage? I can't imagine it'd go over well.
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>>103510680
Batman could stop Joker any time, it's just bad writing that he doesn't. Spidey literally CAN'T stop Carnage, it's better than DC by any stretch of the imagination.
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>>103511274
Leave now
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>>103512424
Most telepaths are too smart to try. Every time it's mentioned it's just a hard no.
>>
He's a really adequate street level villain. His only motive is murder, but he's not a thug or a cronie. With his base power set, he's not ever going to threaten big-dick niggas like Hyperion but the cops absolutely can't deal with him under any circumstances and even Spider-Man has loads of trouble with him. But there's basically no reason to use him while Green Goblin's around.
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>>103513531
Carnage is a far bigger threat than Goblin, he's stronger if we're just going by slugfest shit, and also far more versatile

This nigga took over the Surfer, or one half of him did
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>>103511274
t. insecure brainlet
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>>103500825
why did Marvel just kill him off, it's not fair bros
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>>/a/179246540
>>
Red Venom >> Black Spider-Man (not that one)
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>>103510825
Carnage Cosmic was canon, but it did get a What If showing what would have happened had the symbiote stayed with the Silver Surfer.
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>>103512165
He has a mutue GF
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>>103513487
>Most telepaths are too smart to try. Every time it's mentioned it's just a hard no.
Do they ever elaborate on why?
I mostly ask because I know the symbiote fucks with people to make them more Cletus-like, so I was wondering how the duo would respond to mental-invasion
Cletus is a normie and symbiotes don't do mental-defenses, but at the same time I wouldn't put their willpower at standard levels. Maybe not DOOM-laughs-at-purple-man levels, but still notable
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Ignorant anon who only watched the Spidey movies and vidyas. Has Carnage ever killed anyone on screen?
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>>103514857
No.
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>>103514857
Carnage is a gud boi
'e dindu nuffin
>>
>>103511274
You are the worst kind of fan
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>>103511274
>me like form, no substance yuckie
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>>103514778
You know how in the X-Men Animated Series, Charles always AAARRRGHed out every time he read someone's mind?
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>>103514857
Yes, Peter as Carnage an heroed in the 90s.
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>>103514778
>Do they ever elaborate on why?
He once used the symbiote to connect a guy to his mind and the dude went feral in minutes.
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>>103499225
>Woody Harrelson is gonna play him like shit, too.
Harrelson's gonna play Kasady?!
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>>103499163
He's remembered cause he looks cool.
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>>103517370
He already has at the end of Venom
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>>103512424
>Doesn't he have the symbiote so deeply ingrained in him that it's impossible to fully extract even for Richards?
Yeah, it was his blood, now it's him, except when they forget that so they can draw a cripple fight.
>His powerset makes him a threat to basically every hero and any hero who can be said to curbstomp Carnage still has to deal with minimizing dead bystanders.
Carnage is absurdly strong, the only people I think who could fuck him are guys who are the strongest of the strong, like black bolt, and Sentry, part of the reason he's such a threat.
>As an aisde: Has a telepath ever tried a psychic assault on Carnage? I can't imagine it'd go over well.
I think the answer was teh symbiotes are a sort of decentralized brain structure and it's not as easy, but Carnage himself is a bit nutty and dominates others with the suit, so probably not entirely possible. There was a bit where jujube was in his head in his solo run, kinda, and that fucked with him. We've seen Axis screw with his head too, I don't think you could shut him down, you might be able to drive him off with TK though.
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>>103517370
>Harrelson's gonna play Kasady?!
yes, and he's wearing a wig.
>>
>>103499163
Carnage is an awful villain.

"HAHAHA I KILL U I SOOO CUHRASYZEE IJUS WANA KILL UUU"
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>>103518351
So you never read a carnage story in your life, huh?
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>>103518398
HAHAHA I HAEV THIS USPER DUPER ELOBARTE PLAN TO MAKE ME SUPER DUUPER POWERUL SO ICAN KILL PEOPLE AHAHAHA
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>>103518450
that's not in a single comic carnage is in
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Here's hoping Eminem does a Carnage song.
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>>103518677
We need the Carnage to Em's Venom.
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>>103518677
>>103518867
There's already a song made for him "Carnage rules!" by green jelly I think? I kinda hope it shows up in some capacity. That or they shell out for metallica and antrax since he liked those guys.
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>>103518897
Sadly, modern marvel rectconned him into a country loving hillbilly. You'll get Freebird and like it.

A slow-mo brawl between Venom and Carnage as a climax to the film set to Freebird would be kino.
>>
>>103499163
What I really dislike about Cassidy is that he turns out to be a pussy every. single. time. All of his stories start with him butchering a bunch of nobodies (so far, so good) then the second somebody is capable to handle his ass he IMMEDIATELY start crying and bitching and begging for mercy. At least the Joker comits balls deep with his craziness.
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>>103519900
The same Cletus Kasady who went toe to toe with a U.S soldier without his symbiote and without his fucking legs? The Joker wishes he could have stones like that.
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>>103508652
Those are more distinctive though
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>>103511274
>Stop. Explaining. Shit.
Yet I bet you still bitch about plotholes in movies. Hypocrite.
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>>103520042
This is from the last few years to appease to edgelords.
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>>103501425
I wish there was a way I could work these into a regular conversation.
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>>103501478
what thus guy said
it's an interesting idea, what would a serial killer do if they were given such power?
obviously kill people, but in what way? In a real world context, odds are they'd probably be a lot like carnage is written, going a little fucking nuts with it, but I'd imagine they'd be opperating under some delusion that god or satan gave them the power because they want them to kill people, depending on the killer of course.

In a comic boom context it gets a little tricker though. Obviously he should be aware there are other superpowered beings that could potentially threaten or stop him. I'd imagine he'd want to still keep a low profile, though still being a bit bolder, going after groups of people rather than trying to get someone alone, etc.
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>>103519900
>All of his stories start with him butchering a bunch of nobodies (so far, so good) then the second somebody is capable to handle his ass he IMMEDIATELY start crying and bitching and begging for mercy.
He doesn't start crying when somebody can handle him, he starts crying when he has a breakdown because it's all a fucking act with him. That's the point, he's meant to be pathetic, he doesn't like what he is, he's been living his life like this since he was 4 years old or something.

Joker likes being who he is, Carnage doesn't. When he's without his suit he still has balls, but when he gets on a tangent about being weak and caught up in his own head is when things start to collapse in on him, he's shown this in every big story he's been in.

>>103520093
It was done because they wanted a cripple fight.
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>>103519287
He liked freebird, he likes rock n roll, thing about Cassiday is he WAS southern, but he was shuttled to NY when he was what....13? He shouldn't have an accent unless he wants to. That being said I still think Harrelson will do the role justice.

I'm already loving the work they did with Eddie, using his canon, making him a geniuinely good guy with a heart of gold, the lvoing wife, making the break up between them make sense, utilizing his rogues gallery/history, retconning out the stupid Spider-man angst explanation so that "muh Peter versus Eddie crowd" fucks off. I'm genuinely excited.

I'm curious as to how Eddie will deal with Spiderman, because he's definitely gonna get the Venom spider, I just hope they don't kill Anne to do it.
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>>103520542
>I'm already loving the work they did with Eddie

They're treating Cletus with just as much care. Eddie's notes on Kasady from the end of the movie got put up on display at Comic Con. They did their homework on the character.
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>>103500521
>>103500544
>>103500565
Carnage always freaked me the fuck out in the PS1 game, especially how he's the only boss you cant just fight, if the sonic bubble wasnt in the level you'd be unable to damage him, which is why Monster Ock is just a fucking nightmare.

Carnage rules.
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>>103520048
>>103508652
>>103509842
Carnages best face is when his head is red and his face is black with black teeth against a normal pink/red mouth, it makes him look more like a horrific monster compared to Venom who has a somewhat comprehensible face (lips, gums, eyes, kind of a visible skull shape, tongue) compared to Carnages spooky demon thing
>>
Carnage has a better design than Venom. It works better as an "anti-Spider-Man", it's far more visually interesting, and it's a more intimidating look.
Prove me wrong. You can't.
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>>103511274
There's a huge difference between exploring the narrative purpose of a character and introducing a shitty plot device that only exists to demystify a concept that was designed to be inexplicable and magical.

tl;dr (this post hardly needs one, but you don't strike me as the reading type) you're fucking retarded.
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>>103520710
>ocpius complex
can't read this right
>born in brooklyn
I could've sworn it was the opposite, born southern, moved to ny.
>unpassionate bloodbshot
What?

Still I love everything about this.
>>103521644
He knows what he's talking about to a point, he's worried they'll pull a Wolverine, which have you seen comics lately? They're full of this shit. I think you could do it with Carnage if you had the right writers.
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>>103521995
>ocpius complex
Oedipus, he wants to fuck his mom.
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>>103520710
Unpatterned bloodshet = the ultimate freedom.
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>>103522067
>bloodshet
typo.

Bloodshed.
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>>103499940

You're right, but I'd say a more interesting reason why he doesn't work is that Joker isn't Chaotic. He's got a generic motivation and everything.

Carnage is just carnage, no one's expecting him to be sophisticated. The Joker almost always immediately throws out his ability to be accepted as a simple character with some "WE'RE NOT SO DIFFERENT, BATMAN!" shit.
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>>103522512
The Joker works because he's atypical, but edgelords see TDK and go "MUH DEEP BROODIN JKER HE GETS ALL DE WIMMINS" and make it like a murder contest, which isn't wahat he's about.

I firmly believe it's people who lack understanding of Joker's character who have made him a sort of joke to the comic community.
>>
>>103499163
What Carnage needs to actually be a compelling villain is to have a story focused entirely on him attempting to wipe out an entire city, Spidey having to stop him alone with no allies, and the reveal that Carnage is doing his newest stunt entirely to spite Spider-Man. Have Cletus' internal dialogue be about how much he despises Spider-Man's need to protect life, and the fact that now he just wants to turn that on its head.

Like others in the thread pointed out, Cletus isn't sympathetic, and he shouldn't be, but his stories always have a disconnect between what he is and how we're supposed to respond to it. He's never really depicted as terrifying, just obnoxiously cheesy, which doesn't really work in his stories.
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>>103521995
Wasn't the whole problem with Wolverine the fact that they explained away one of the most interesting things about him (his mysterious past)?
Carnage doesn't really have that as far as I'm aware. The worst they could do is try to humanize him and, god forbid, give him an actual motivation for his actions.
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>>103522866
Yeah, the issue was that it was something they didn't realize they didn't need to explain, like mitochlorians. I can't think of anything else like that off the bat, but I get the sentiment.
>>103522866
>The worst they could do is try to humanize him and, god forbid, give him an actual motivation for his actions.
He's always had a reason and motive for his actions though, from his debut, to his last 50 issue run he's always been pretty clear about what he wanted, sharing his view of the world with others because being right about his world view is how he copes with the hand he was dealt. The view is chaos, everything happens for no reason, and the worst can and will happen, the worst in people wil come out, etc.

If you don't know what I'm on about start from the beginning in his debut and work your way forward.
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>>103522981
Nigger an examination of the meta contextual design process behind Carnage's characterization and motifs is not the fucking same as an in-universe explanation for a concept.

>The view is chaos, everything happens for no reason, and the worst can and will happen, the worst in people wil come out, etc.
That's not humanizing him, if anything it makes him far less relatable.
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>>103511274
>stop discussing what makes for an interesting story

You are the highest tier of pleb
>>
I loved his ongoing.
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>>103523091
>Nigger an examination of the meta contextual design process behind Carnage's characterization and motifs is not the fucking same as an in-universe explanation for a concept.
it's not meta contextual, he says this directly. He says it in Maximum carnage that he does what he does to show others his worldview, and during his debut, the rest comes from him being a damaged fuck, again, shit you see in maximum carnage and repeated again in his miniseries run and partly in the axis run, how many times you have to see the same pattern and say "that's meta contextual"

It ought to humanize him when you look at the context provided to show just how fucked up the guy is, he believes what he does because to him it's the only thing that makes sense.





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