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Do you agree?
http://archive.is/MEP79
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>>95975303
Who fucking liked Amazons Attack?
>>
Almost all of those stories were universally despised.

Also here's a real link if you're not an autist who denies a fucking page view for an article that someone put time into writing just because you're omni-triggered about politics:

http://www.cbr.com/overrated-dc-stories-from-2000s/amp/
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>>95975365

Hey, CBR guy, fuck you.
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>>95975303
About five of those are decent and everyone has always known the rest are shit.
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>>95975303
The only thing on this list that ANYONE likes is Obsidian Age, which is good because of the characterization and story more than the plot itself.

You'd have to be the most drooling retarded kind of fanboy who eats up anything Marvel/DC tell you to to like anything else on that list, so I'm really not sure who this author is trying to reach with this shitty article.
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>>95975365
Eat shit.
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>>95975303
>Countdown
No one liked it.
>Battle for the Cowl
No one liked it.
>Amazons Attack
No one liked it.
>Truth or Dare
No one even talks about this story other than featfags.
>Our Worlds at War
No one liked it.
>The Obsidian Age
Actually good.
>Between Dark & Dawn
No one remembers this either.
>Murderer?/Fugitive
No one liked this.
>Thy Kingdom Come
Pretty divisive (I liked it).
>Joker's Last Laugh
No one liked this.
>Gotham Underground
Another story no one remembers.
>Salvation Run
No one liked this.
>Ruin
Another divise story at best.
>Rann/Thanagar War
No one liked this.
>World War III
And finally another story no one liked and is universally agreed upon to be the weakest part of 52.

Awful, horrible, utterly nonsensical list. So, par of the course for CBR.
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>>95975303
>Truth or Dare

I honestly forgot this ever happened.
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>>95975330
I did, at least when it was storytimed once on /co/.

The battles were awesome, the concept unsettling, and the politics involved crazy and interesting. I'm still not too sure of Hippolatta's problem, and why they couldn't just talk it out instead of punching each other, and why Batman didn't just stop Circe when she was weak, nor did I like the stupid ending with Granny Goodness, and the mindless killing over all people and not just men by the Amazons was a little stupid, most of the Amazons were kind of out of character, and Athena's moral lesson at the end was convoluted and unrealistic considering she's the Goddess of Wisdom, even if the point of it was to show the Greek Gods' propensity to play games with the mortals while sitting on moral high-horses and their complete disconnect with the mortal realm, and Supergirl and Wondergirl's reluctant and half-hearted act of naive treason was brain-dead writing; otherwise, I honestly think it was pretty good.

I didn't think I'd list a lot of weird things wrong with it, but overall I think the sets were good, the concept great, and the story thoroughly enjoyable. I don't know why people give it so much hate.

My list was unintentional. I genuinely believe it's a pretty good story. Why do people hate it so much? It's not perfect, but neither is anything Alan Moore writes.
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>>95975498
>comparing Amazons fucking Attack to Alan goddamn Moore
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>>95975303
15. COUNTDOWN/COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS
14. BATTLE FOR THE COWL
13. AMAZONS ATTACK!
12. TRUTH OR DARE
11. OUR WORLDS AT WAR
10. THE OBSIDIAN AGE
9. BETWEEN DARK & DAWN
8. BRUCE WAYNE: MURDERER?/ BRUCE WAYNE: FUGITIVE
7. THY KINGDOM COME
6. JOKER’S LAST LAUGH
5. BATMAN: GOTHAM UNDERGROUND
4. SALVATION RUN
3. RUIN REVEALED
2. THE RANN/THANAGAR WAR
1. WORLD WAR III
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>>95975303
What a horrible list. Most of those are almost universally agreed to be terrible.
Give me a job at a clickbait site so I could shit all over stories people actually like just for lulz.
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>>95975450
You nailed it, anon
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>>95975303
>cbr trys to post shitty comics and act like people thought they were good

>no one falls for it

This site should just shut down.
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>>95975365
Someone archive this
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>>95975716
Got you senpai
http://archive.is/dz1Gm
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Yeah, I loved Thy Kingdom Come.
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>>95975450
>>Truth or Dare
>>Between Dark & Dawn

What were these? I don't even remember them.
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>>95975303
>Hating Thy Kingdom Come

Fuck off. It was a great climax to John's JSA run. It was great seeing the young and old JSA divide and then come back together. They had a great brawl against Gog with some great moments like Citizen Steel knocking him off balance. KC Superman was a great character and had some great moments with the cast.

Thy Kingdom Come was good.
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>>95975801
Truth or Dare
>The two-part Flash/Wonder Woman crossover was one of the numerous tie-ins to Villains United. In this story, Diana’s longtime adversary Cheetah (Barbara Minerva) tried to recruit Flash’s deadliest foe, Zoom (Hunter Zolomon), into the Secret Society of Super Villains. The vicious cat-themed villain wanted the wicked speedster to teach her how to increase her speed. “Truth or Dare” showcased some incredible moments such as Cheetah facing off against Wally West and Zoom tackling the blind Amazon Princess.
>However, this two-parter featured the shocking murder of former Golden Age Cheetah: Ms. Priscilla Rich, which was glossed over as the Amazon Princess did not spend enough time remembering her fallen adversary. “Truth or Dare” also missed the opportunity of Wally and Diana discussing their personal lives, because outside of JLA, they hardly spent time together and it would have been interesting to have them reflect about overcoming tragedy.
Between Dark and Dawn
>Under Gail Simone’s guidance, Birds of Prey became one of DC’s fan-favorite popular team books of the mid-2000s. Readers flocked to the comic to see Oracle, Black Canary and the Huntress’ adventures unfolded by a rotating team of excellent artists. “Between Dark & Dawn” showcased the Birds of Prey going up against a foe that was totally out of their element: Brainiac!
>He brainwashed Barbara Gordon and temporarily freed her from her paralysis. Under the android’s control, Oracle nearly defeated Black Canary and the Huntress until Dinah had to remind the former Batgirl who she was. “Between Dark & Dawn’s” major flaw is that Barbara defeated Brainiac, who is one of Superman’s deadliest adversaries, with ease. Another turn-off was that Barbara was temporarily able to use her body and it drove the wrong message to people who have paralysis and hope to walk again.
>>95975450
The reasons for why Obsidian age suck as well. "waah, OC's, waah"
>>
You're wrong guys.
These stories actually were well-received and highly regarded...
...by CBR shill shit site reviewers.
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>>95975891
>>95975450
Truth or Dare I remembered people talking up back when it was out, to the point people were paying more than $10 for those issues. Same with Rann/Thanagar War at first. But I think that was mainly because of the buildup hype for Infinite Crisis. Once that was over everyone promptly forgot about those comics.

Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive is one of those arcs that make me think anyone saying the Brubaker era was better than Morrison's, Snyder's, or King's (at least, at the moment) runs is probably looking back at the Brubaker era with nostalgia goggles.

Honestly Obsidian Age and Thy Kingdom Come shouldn't be on the list.
>>
Here's the entire thing for those who don't want to even click the archive. Most of the reasons are crap.

15. Countdown/CtFC
>Following the success of DC’s first weekly maxi-series, 52, the DC Comics editorial team assigned a group of writers and artists to countdown to a major event which turned out to be “Final Crisis”. Starting with issue 51, Countdown focused on the adventures of several popular heroes and villains and how their actions lead to the Grant Morrison-penned event.
>Characters such as Mary Marvel, Pied Piper and Trickster benefited from the series as it improved their profiles amongst the fan base. But, at times, Countdown felt like it dragged on and had several story elements that were not necessary to the main narrative. Also, what polarized Countdown was the uneven quality of both writing and art duties. While 52 remains well loved and had elements of this massive story that is still a part of the DC Universe, Countdown was swept under the rug.

14. BATTLE FOR THE COWL
>Darkseid “killed” Batman at the end of Final Crisis’ sixth issue. With Bruce Wayne “deceased,” the primary concern amongst the Robins was who was going to inherit the cowl. As a new Black Mask corned Gotham City’s criminal underworld, Jason Todd became a deadly Batman branding his harsh form of justice on criminals and members of the Caped Crusaders’ family.
>This lead to an intense battle between Jason Todd and Dick Grayson. While Todd eventually retreated and reclaimed the title of Red Hood, Nightwing became Batman once again. Battle for the Cowl was a very short mini-series let many fans down for several reasons. First, the mini-series did show the heroes confront Black Mask and his new army. Secondly, Battle for the Cowl also marked a demotion for Tim Drake, which drew the ire of countless Batman fans.
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>>95976111
>13. AMAZONS ATTACK!

>One story that spun out of Countdown to Final Crisis was the six-part mini-series: Amazons Attack! At the end of Infinite Crisis, the Amazons disappeared from the realm leaving Wonder Woman to represent Themyscira all by herself. However, when the US Government captured Diana, Circe manipulated the Amazons (including a resurrected Queen Hippolyta) into invading Washington, D.C.
>Near the end of the mini-series, Wonder Woman ends Circe’s hold on her sisters, but Athena punishes Wonder Woman’s mother and the Amazons by taking away their powers. While the once-promising mini-series grabbed our attention in the 2000s, readers may see numerous flaws. Outside forces could manipulate the headstrong Queen Hippolyta and the Amazons. Secondly, the reveal of Granny Goodness masquerading as Athena offended several longtime fans. Thirdly, the story dragged titles such as Catwoman, Supergirl and Teen Titans into this messy tale causing fans to abandon ship.
See >>95975891 for Truth or Dare
11. OUR WORLDS AT WAR

>During the summer of 2001, the DC Universe faced a threat that even dwarfed the Anti-Monitor. Imperiex Prime was a destroyer of galaxies and set his sight on the DC Universe. In addition to this massive threat, Brainiac-13 also decided to rear his ugly head and chose to align with Imperiex Prime. For the first time since Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC’s greatest heroes, and villains teamed up to save all of creation from being wiped away in a new big bang.
>While Our Worlds at War featured all-star creative teams, there were some questionable storytelling elements. In Adventures of Superman #596, Luthor’s twin Lex Towers suffered from a 9-11 like attack and the issue was published one day after the World Trade Center fell. Another creepy element was Imperiex’s attack on Smallville. These two fictional attacks hit too close to home for most readers.
Dc didn't predict 9/11, therefore bad
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>>95976150
I like how they barely even talk about critical reception, as if they know nobody actually liked these stories and are nowhere near "overrated".
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>>95976150
10. THE OBSIDIAN AGE

>Throughout the first part of the 2000s, the JLA was DC’s top superhero team. With impeccable team line-ups and rotating powerhouse creative teams, JLA delivered memorable storylines. From September 2002 to February 2003, the JLA went on its wildest (and longest) adventure yet. The team traveled throughout time in search of Aquaman, who went MIA during the “Our Worlds at War” crossover.
>There were several things wrong with “The Obsidian Age.” First of all, the story arc dragged out way too long. Secondly, the story’s antagonist, Gamemnae, was not as threatening or memorable like Prometheus, Queen of Fables, or Starro. Thirdly, we saw fan-favorite members such as Aquaman, Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) and Martian Manhunter depart, and questionable heroes such as Faith and Manitou Raven join the team.
See above for Dark and Dawn

8. BRUCE WAYNE: MURDERER?/ BRUCE WAYNE: FUGITIVE

>The Dark Knight’s alter-ego found himself on the wrong side of the law in the year-long 2002 storyline: “Bruce Wayne: Murderer” and “Bruce Wayne: Fugitive.” An unknown assassin framed Gotham’s favorite son for the death of former love interest Vesper Fairchild. While the Caped Crusader and his bodyguard, Sasha Bordeaux, rotted in prison, it was up to the Batman Family to clear their mentor’s name.
This storyline is on this list for several reasons. >First, the Batman Family has the unquestionable trust of their mentor. This storyline saw several vital allies such as Nightwing and Oracle question if the Dark Knight committed murder. Secondly, David Cain was revealed to be the assassin who was ordered under then-President Lex Luthor to frame Wayne. Finally, the story ran for 39 issues, which burnt a hole on reader’s wallets.
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>>95976186
7. THY KINGDOM COME

>Fans have begged for a follow-up to the classic Elseworlds tale, Kingdom Come, for years. Future DC Entertainment Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns and Kingdom Come co-author Alex Ross brought several elements of the Kingdom Come universe to the Justice Society of America in an epic tale that took places throughout 14 individual issues, an annual, and three stand-alone specials.
>The “sequel” was a grandiose story that satisfied some fans and brought Earth-22 Superman into the DCU and reunited Power Girl with her friends on Earth-Two. But, “Thy Kingdom Come” also divided the team and introduced the omnipotent Gog as a one-note villain and a new and brattier Earth-Two version of Power Girl. Also, fans had to shell out nearly $60 to purchase all 18 issues!

6. JOKER’S LAST LAUGH

>It is unethical for doctors to lie to patients, but in the DC Universe…it is never a good idea to lie to The Joker! In Joker’s Last Laugh, a doctor faked diagnosed the Clown Prince of Crime with a terminal brain tumor. To make sure that he left a legacy, The Joker decided to transform almost every primary DC villain in a psychotic “Jokerized” villain of themselves.
>These villains caused so much chaos around the DC Universe that even the Batman Family were about to break their solemn vow of no killing. The event had so much potential as it crossed over into almost every title. But what put Joker’s Last Laugh on this list was that the mini-series published an issue every week with no rest and it did not give fans enough time to absorb the story.
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>>95976209
5. BATMAN: GOTHAM UNDERGROUND

>Batman: Gotham Underground was a nine-issue mini-series that tied into both Salvation Run and Countdown/Countdown to Final Crisis. This storyline focused on how many of DC’s deadliest crime bosses and organizations including Great White Shark, Intergang and Tobias Whale trying to become the next Black Mask. Fans also learned that Penguin felt threatened by these mob bosses and went to great lengths to protect his empire by aligning with Amanda Waller and the Suicide Squad.
In return for immunity, Penguin betrayed his fellow criminals by handing them over to Waller, who sent them to the prison planet. >Also, fans got to see the return of Spoiler and were introduced to a new Vigilante. Batman: Gotham Underground had incredible artwork, but at the same time there were no long-term repercussions that the Batman books felt from this story.

4. SALVATION RUN

>“Salvation Run” is DC’s version of Survivor and Civil War. From November 2007 to June 2008, Amanda Waller and her Suicide Squad captured and transported some of DC’s greatest villains to a peaceful planet. Little did they know that Amanda Waller played right into Desaad’s hands as the planet was revealed to be the training grounds for the New Gods of Apokolips.
>Making matters worse, The Joker and Lex Luthor divided the villains into two groups as they warred to be the villains’ main leader. While the story was strong, the shoddy artwork devalued the mini-series. Also, Salvation Run also damaged Catwoman’s character in readers’ eyes as she betrayed her Outsiders teammate, Martian Manhunter, as she ratted him out to the villains. This decision led to Martian Manhunter’s shocking death in the primary issue of Final Crisis.
>>
The mainline Battle for the Cowl was bad but it had some pretty cool tie-ins. I remember the Arkham Asylum issue was tight.

On a semi-related note; what do people think about Blackest Night (and I guess Brightest Day as well)? I remember how hyped everyone was when it was coming out, but looking back on it I don't find it nearly as enjoyable as Sinestro Corps War and the ending was kind of lame.
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>>95976239
Fucking formatting

3. RUIN REVEALED

>Before Infinite Crisis shook up the DC Universe, the Man of Steel faced a very dangerous adversary throughout the mid-2000s. His name was Ruin! The villain’s mission was to “ruin” Superman’s life. >Throughout the last issues of Adventures of Superman, Ruin targeted his Superman’s loved ones including Lana Lang, nearly killed Mister Mxyptlk, and even framed Clark’s childhood friend (and former Vice President of the United States), Pete Ross, as being the villain.
At the end of “Ruin Revealed,” the villain’s true identity was longtime Superman Ally, Professor Emil Hamilton. Both Superman and longtime fans were caught off guard with this surprising development and were annoyed with the title’s creative team about destroying a strong supporting cast member. Professor Hamilton’s character assassination remains one of the dark moments in Superman’s lengthy history.
2. THE RANN/THANAGAR WAR

>Rann and Thanagar have had a vicious rivalry that at times almost lead to war between these two planets. Infinite Crisis tie-in >Rann/Thanagar War showcased the massive battle that not even Adam Strange, Hawkman, and Hawkgirl could handle alone. The whole story started when several Thangarians transported Rann to the Thangarian star system. Despite the trio’s best efforts, the two planets go to war with each other/ The massive war also dragged other heroes such as Captain Comet, two Green Lanterns, the Omega Men, and Shayera Thal into this battle.
>Eventually, readers eventually learned that the entire war was created at the behest of Earth-3’s Alexander Luthor, who ordered Superboy Prime to move the planets in Infinite Crisis to bring back the DC Multiverse. The story was too slow, and it was hard to keep track of all the minor characters that starred in this tale.
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>>95975498
Did you get paid for writing that list?
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>>95976276
1. WORLD WAR III

>During the final weeks of 2006-07’s weekly series, 52, fans learned that Black Adam single-handedly caused World War III. The evil ruler of Kahndaq wanted revenge on the Four Horsemen who killed his family and wiped out his country. The enraged Black Adam nearly slaughtered the entire nation of Bialya and destroyed countless cities around the world before the DC heroes could stop him. “World War III” was filled with numerous annoyances.
>Two creative teams were tasked to create this story which led to uneven artwork and storytelling gaps. Instead of focusing on the main story of Black Adam versus Martian Manhunter and the rest of the world, the writers spent several panels plugging about the actions that Donna Troy, Harvey Dent, the Justice Society of America and Supergirl took to bring about their “One Year Later” fates.
>>95976249
I liked the Secret Six "tie-in" to that, mostly because it wasn't related to the story at all
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>>95976249
Blackest Night was fine. Of course it's not as good as SCW, because that's one of the best events they've ever done. Brightest Day meanwhile was another poor attempt at emulating 52.
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>>95976249
Blackest Night sucked. They killed off so many characters so pointlessly.
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>>95975303
>Putting WW3 on the top

It was the weakest part of the Fifty-Two storyline but I fail to see how it was any worse than Amazons Attack or fuck, Countdown to Final Crisis.
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>>95975303
None of those are great what the fuck are they smoking?
Except Thy Kingdom Come, that's better than Kingdom Come.
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>>95976249
Johns repeats himself thematically (menace from within the super hero community is in everything, and it looks like Doomsday clock is more of the same) I like everything by Johns I read less than what I read before. I though IC was tits; enjoyed SCW, found JSA unreadably boring and so on.
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>>95976309
>>95976338
>>95976353
Interesting, thank you Anons. I'm not really close with the public consensus on story arcs (I don't really have many friends who read/are big into comics so I just read them myself and don't interact too much within the comic community) so it's always interesting to hear what people think about certain arcs.
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>Let me summarize the story, then let me name you 3 flaws about it.

That's a terrible article. No critical thinking, no research beside a look at Wikipedia, nothing. You can't get anything out of that.

I'm legitimately offended to know that someone probably got paid for that.
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>>95975902
CBR only shills Marvel, though
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>>95976341
CBR lists are in no particular order, usually

editors might even rearrange entries before publication
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>>95976443
>anyone at CBR
>capable of thinking
The one time I went to their forums, those retards couldn't understand a plot point chewed out for them in the fucking comic. Never again.
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>>95976443
if it makes you feel better, CBR listicle writers get paid almost literal peanuts
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>>95976542
What comic?
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>>95976589
Uncanny X-Force.
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>>95975365
Eat dick CBR faggot
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>>95975303
>Countdown
Stopped reading there. Countdown was shit and I'm sure the rest of the list is the same way.
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>>95975365
Fuck off shill
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"15 stories that are mostly batshit and crossovers you didn't give a fuck about to begin with that are like, way worse than they were the first time we read their wikipedia articles"
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>>95976408
>I'm not really close with the public consensus on story arcs
neither is /co/ and you should NEVER take someone elses taste to inform your own
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>>95975303
I have literally never heard of any of these except Battle for the Cowl and Thy Kingdom Come, so I'm going to assume that no one actually remembers them fondly, if at all.
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>>95975450
I don't remember Between Dark & Dawn, Thy Kingdom Come, Joker's Last Laugh, Gotham Underground or Ruin at all.

There's way worse worse stories from that era of DC anyway, chief among them being Blackest Night, Flash Rebirth and Infinite Crisis (and was it Countdown to Infinite Crisis that killed Ted?).
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>>95975365

Go eat a bag of dicks shill cuck.
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>>95976046
Did Cucka ever use Sasha in Wonder Woman? I swear he's the only person who liked that character; granted he created her but I seriously do not think another writer has ever used her.
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>>95975450
I actually have a bit of a soft spot for Salvation Run....
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>>95977921
She appeared in his rebirth WW run, but I think it was just a robot. I haven't finished the run yet, so maybe she actually reappears later.
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>>95976309
Blackest Night is Johns at his worst IMO. Shocking moments for the sake of shocking moments that have no payoff and are quickly deflated. Remember how big a deal the Black Lanterns were? Sorry, scene filler after issue 1. Oh shit, all of these dead-alive heroes are Black Lanterns including Superman... wait, nevermind, more scene filler. Look at all these characters with rings, Scarecrow with a yellow ring hell yeah? Wait, nothing happens with that. There's pointless character deaths, including Gehenna's which is honestly one of the most vile I've ever seen and not in an enjoyable way; not even a WIR type but watching a 17-year-old girl with a child-like mentality get turned into salt and then her corpse getting licked/violated by Dr. Rape was straight garbage.
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>>95975365
Thank you, I love triggering people who get triggered by giving clicks.
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>>95978189
To illustrate your point a bit
>>
Blackest Night was GL’s weakest run since GL Rebirth. Still better than anything Marvel is shilling out these days.
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>>95978189
>being this salty
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>>95978267
Just to drive the point home, Gehenna was a teenage girl who was a clone of some old Firestorm villain. She had a childish personality/emotional state because of this.

I think in the Justice League tie-in (so Johns doesn't get the blame for this part outside of creating the environment for it to happen) Dr. Rape also fights the Justice League, sexually assaults Kimiyo and then threatens to rape her kids.

I seriously hate the post-Infinite Crisis up to like Flashpoint era of DC. It's pointlessly schlocky bullshit.
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>>95978580
Samefag but actually I should change that to post-Identity Crisis. The entire thing is just grm and cynical nonsense.
>>
As bad as all of these are, and they were all bad so I don't even see the fucking point, CBR a shit as usual, I really feel like Identity Crisis should be on this list.
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>>95978580
>>95978748
I can't believe people are willing to forgive Didio for one of the worst DC eras ever desu, which is why I'm 100% sure the Didioposters are mostly /tv/ memesters here to shill their companywar bullshit.
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>>95978765
I'm surprised that Fugitive/Murder is on there. Seems like they tried to shy away from big name creators because yeah, while Amazons Attack is a bad story it's kind of bad in a vacuum. Amazons Attack was basically contained to itself and quickly forgotten, I think the biggest change it made was making Grace Choi a literal Amazon instead of just a physical one.

Identity Crisis is not only a bad story, as a mystery it's garbage with horrible character motivation from the villain and no real clues pointing to Jean Loring being the killer. Ruining Deathstroke by making him retardedly evil and stupidly overpowered. Setting the tone of the DCU for years. The only good thing that came out of it was Eclipso Jean Loring because she was hot who should've stuck around for far longer.
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>>95978912
Didio seems to have learned his lesson for the most part but oh man were the 2000s a bad period for DC.
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>>95979158
I didn't like the New52, but a lot of people seem to have nostalgia goggles on for what was going on in the DCU in the late 2000s
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>>95978765
Identity Crisis would make a lot more sense than any of the ones listed, at least.
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>>95979158
Didio has self awareness at least.
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>>95978267
>bitchin'
This quip right makes it so much worse. It it feels like something written by a 13-year old fan of Linkin Park.
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>>95978267
>>95978577
Does Johns have mental issues? Christ.
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>>95976046
>Brubaker era
I like his non-Murder/Fugitive Batman comics better than Snyder's and Kings, that's for sure.
And it's not as theirs are much better than Murder/Fugitive anyway.
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>>95976249
Blackest Night is awful, but as always, some of the tie-ins are ok.
Just more grimdark bullshit from Johns.
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>>95975365
>Politics
Nigger what? CBR is just an all around shit website.
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>>95979580
He's the guy that's gonna bring hope back to comics, after all those years Alan Moore brought nothing but grimdark!
God Bless Cereal Lord!
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>>95979158
The past year has probably been the worst in the last 15 years of DC though.
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>>95975450
Salvation Run was good though. And WW3 isn't nearly as shitty as you're making it out to be.
>>
How the fuck is Blackest Night not #1 on this list?
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>>95978580
>sexually assaults Kimiyo and then threatens to rape her kids.

No he doesn't. People only think that because she overloads her power to defeat him and has her clothes burnt away in the process.
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>>95979119
>I think the biggest change it made was making Grace Choi a literal Amazon instead of just a physical one.

She was hinted being one after Infinite Crisis. And really it's not a surprise given how many of the others on the team had their own secrets.
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>>95979675
>Moore can write a good natured, lighthearted story, multiple times even
>most of Johns' more lighthearted runs, like JSA, still feature edgy tryhard bullshit, with Stars and STRIPE being the only notable exception because it was based on his dead sister
>somehow, Johns is less "grimdark" than Moore
This stupid fucking meme will never not piss me off.
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>>95975303
The current state of CBR is fucking disgusting
>>
>No Tower of Babel
>No Identity Crisis
>No Blackest Night
>Mostly comics that were hated at release time and some actually good comics
>like 3 comics that actually fit the bill
Godawful list
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>>95979687
good joke
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>>95979687
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>>95980087
Nice try but 0/10
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>>95980457
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>>95980476
You tried baiting. You failed.
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>>95980491
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>>95979687
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>>95977998
Same, I think it's fun.
>>
>>95979687
I disagree in that it's the worst, but it's definitely been a pretty bad year and nowhere near as good as /co/ is hyping it up to be, mostly because DC is publishing so many forgettable, mediocre comics. When something as milquetoast and inoffensive as Tomasi's Superman is held to such high regard, you know you're dealing with desperate people.

Now mind you, there are some good comics, like Deathstroke and New Super-Man (and even some from beyond DC's main line, like Astro City), but even those stories are held back by mediocre at best art.
>>
>>95980530
As funny as you thinking Humphries writing your waifu and Jurgens publishing 3 issues/month is "based".
>>
>>95980625
I can't stand Jurgens. At worst, Rebirth is mostly mediocre with a few gems. Post-Identity Crisis DC was almost entirely awful with a few gems.
>>
>>95980621
>I disagree in that it's the worst
Gimme a different period then. We can look at solicitations if you want. Thing is, there were always bad comics being published but at least before you still had exceptional comics while now you just have a few good ones in a sea of shit and mediocre.
>>
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>>95980625
>not giving Humphries a Krypto the Superdog ongoing
What a missed opportunity.
>>
>>95975303
I was expecting something like Blackest Night or Forever Evil or Court of Owls. Aka stuff actually deemed popular and then explains why they really weren't that good. But Amazons Attack? Countdown? Really?
>>
>>95975450
>Our Worlds at War
>No one liked it.
Our Worlds at War was a fine story. It’s how DC would handle “what if Brainiac teamed up with Galactus.” Had a decent amount of iconic Superman moments.
>>
>>95980667
Right before The New 52 was really bad, back when DC was in filler mode, pumping out stories that were clearly going to go nowhere, like Reign of the Doomsdays. 2012-2013 was also a bad period, DC was the laughingstock of the medium, and new controversies seemed to pop up all the time.

Then there's that time when they only published Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, but in heavily neutered forms, but that would be cheating.
>>
>>95980710
That's the problem though, it was supposed to be a company-wide event and the thing was only about Superman.
>>
>>95980657
>with a few gems
We don't even have gems right now though. But still post Identity Crisis we had Lapham's Detective Comics, When In Rome, Gotham Central, Superbuddies, Solo, And Motherfucking Seven Soldiers. And from Vertigo there were LUCIFER, Hellblazer and Fables.
>>
>>95980721
Batman Incorporated, Snyder's Detective Comics, Jonah Hex, Xombi. Weak period, but still better than right now. And from Vertigo you had The Unwritten American Vampire, Sweet Tooth, Northlanders, Scalped. So overall, a much better period.
>>
>>95980788
we have Deathstroke, New Super-man, Shade the Changing Girl, Mr. Miracle, Dick Dastardly and Muttley, Sixpack and Dog-welder, Doom Patrol, and the back half of Flintstones
>>
>>95980905
Mr. Miracle is pretty garbage, especially when compared to Kirby's work. Fuck, what King is probably doing in his mini has already been done by Morrison in Seven Soldiers.
>>
>>95980905
Deathstroke has crappy art, New Super-man is fine but far from a gem, Dastardly and Mutley just... isn't very good, Flintstones is obscenely overrated.
Still, none of them are Seven Soldiers or Lucifer.
>>
>>95980625
>unironically thinking Rebirth is worse than 2010 era DC
I would take Jurgens over Grounded 100/100 times. Morrison Batman cannot cover a whole line of shit.
>>
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>>95980962
>Dastardly and Mutley just... isn't very good, Flintstones is obscenely overrated
>>
CBR trying to damage control marvel
>>
>>95980962
>Seven Soldiers
Wrong Era
>Counting vertigo
Faggot
>>
>>95980979
Dastardly an Muttley tries too hard on the realism. It's only 6 issues but it has failed to grab me by #2. The first page from #1 had me grinning like a madman but it was incredibly unfunny and straight for the rest of it. It's not even as good as Six Pack and Dogwelder.
>>
>>95981022
>Dastardly an Muttley tries too hard on the realism
I really do not think you've read issue 2
>>
>>95981022
Ennis' Pisstakes are the best thing that DC has put out since DC You so that's a pretty high bar.
>>
>>95981016
>Wrong Era
It started in 2005, that's post Identity Crisis, buddy,
>Counting Vertigo
Not my fault current DC is incompetent and has completely killed the imprint and are only publishing Astro City and some crappy Justin Jordan mini right now.
>>
>>95981037
It's still heady on the realism, the scene at the diner or them still trying to make sense of it at the end... it's just... the way the wacky stuff feels flaccid, the phone punching was the only legit funny part of the issue, Dick's dialogue getting silly because of the cloud is just meh as fuck and fucks up the voice in my head when I read his lines. Also War Pig One Should've been War Pigeon One.
>>95981042
Or a low bar set by post DCYou.
>>
>>95981125
>War Pig One Should've been War Pigeon One.
you LITERALLY did not get it
>>
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>>95975498
>>
>>95981059
Oh I thought we were talking just before the n52, my bad. Vertigo, while an imprint, is an entirely different editorial staff, with entirely different goals. Vertigo should be compared to Vertigo (which no one would disagree has been killed)
>>
>>95981205
Buddy, earlier you were counting imprint stuff like Shade The Changing Girl and especially Flintstones. Vertigo is and always has been DC. Deal with it.
>>
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>>95978267
>Ronnie dies to a sword cut
>Finally comes back and turns the new Firestorms girlfriend into salt

What were they even thinking with Ronnie in the '05 to '10 stretch?
>>
>>95976338
>Blackest Night sucked. They killed off so many characters so pointlessly.
honestly that describes almost every DC event of the last 20+ years(and can be applied to Marvel too)

seriously Death is ridiculously overused by modern cape comics, it should be rare and carefully planned out, otherwise it usually just ends up being meaningless tripe

>>95979887
>>95978267
>>95978577
stuff like this is why we need to bring the Comics Code back
>>
>>95981268
anon there are multiple people arguing with you
>>
>>95981277
>stuff like this is why we need to bring the Comics Code back
Chuck Dixon, please fucking go
>>
>>95981282
Anon, you simply replied to the wrong post. One of you is saying just before the n52 was worse, the other post Identity Crisis.
>>
>>95981302
>Chuck Dixon, please fucking go
doesn't Chuck Dixon do a lot of the crap I'm complaining about though?
>>
>>95981345
yes but he's also a conservatard who yearns for the days of the CCA since comics were better then, in his mind
>>
>>95979887
This should be utterly horrifying in theory. Why is it so funny instead?
>>
>>95981383
Chuck Dixon holds the record for the highest number or scripted pages in comics. He's a legends so he's probably right he knows better than you that's for sure.
>>
>>95981437
he's an old man bitter that a bunch of British upstarts wrote better comics than he ever did
>>
>>95981383
>yes but he's also a conservatard who yearns for the days of the CCA since comics were better then, in his mind
I'm not saying Comics were universally better back then, and to be truthful I don't actually want the CCA to come back, I just feel people working on comics for DC & Marvel need to learn some goddamn restraint
>>
>>95981461
No they didn't.
>>
>>95981557
Chuck plz go
>>
>>95975365

>giving clicks to a clickbait blog

Fuck you.
>>
>>95975303
Truth or Dare is good, Obsidian Age is legitimately my favorite JLA story.

Everything else on that list short of WWIII, Thy Kingdom and Batman Fugitive was strongly reviled. This is some serious clickbait bullshit.
>>
>>95975450
>/co/ speaks for the entirety of the industry
>>
>>95981565
Where are these so called masterful brits right now? They all faded away while Based Chuck Dixon is still going strong, writing great comics.
>>
>>95981478
Cape comics were probably better during th CCA era, but I don't think brining it back would help. During the same period Heavy Metal, Savage Sword of Conan and lots of other great stuff was produced outside the code's restrictions.
We just live in a shit time for comics code or no code.
>>
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>>95975450
>>Thy Kingdom Come
>Pretty divisive
>>
>>95975450
>>Truth or Dare
>No one even talks about this story other than featfags.

I liked Zoom in it.
>>
>>95981717
>Cape comics were probably better during th CCA era
God, /co/ has become so retarded...
>>
>>95981752
He was kind of a bitch in it.
>>
>>95975330
I have only read the first issue so far but I did like that until I learnt it was not an elseworlds
>>
>>95975450
>No one liked this.
I liked this one.
>>
>>95976111
It's completely accurate that Countdown raised the profiles of Piper and Trickster amongst fans, as Rogues fandom essentially coalesced at this time. But we all utterly hate Countdown for the character assassination and literal assassination of Trickster.
>>
>>95981656
>Bane Conquest
>great
>Dixon as a whole
>ever even approaching anything beyond "ok"
Garth Ennis is still going strong, releasing multiple comics a year
Alan Moore finished Providence this year
Grant Morrison has written several great series in the past few years
Neil Gaiman has made the jump to reasonably big-time Hollywood guy
Mike Carey finished Unwritten only a couple years ago
Peter Milligan still puts out something great every now and then
>>
>>95981743
How am I wrong? A lot of people complained about it back when it came out, especially here in /co/. Are you new?
>>
>>95975450
>Rann/Thanagar War
I liked it.
>>
>>95981911
The only downside of his Batman era was Batman himself became this huge antisocial asshole.

His Nightwing run was great, especially the first couple of arcs.
>>
>>95981760
>rustled
>>
>>95975303
Where's the Marvel list CBR?
>>
>>95975303
I've heard of almost none of these and as far as I know 90% of them are hated anyway.
>>
>>95979580
Kek, it's edgy shit teenagers or manchildren think is cool. And Johns likes schlocky horror shit.
>>
>>95975330
>Amazons Attack?
Wasn't that the japanese tv show?
>>
>>95975450
>>Rann/Thanagar War
>No one liked this.
No that one was fucking solid. Fantastic art.
>>
>>95980625
You kinda have a point there, but believe it or not, DC has done worse than that.
>>
>>95980667
The entire 2000s is complete garbage from DC by and large. Lots of bad stories, lots of pointless shitting on everything. It's also the era Johns was most prevalent as writer and unlike a lot of comic fans I am really not a fan of Johns' writing at all. Definitely a step down from the later half of the '90s.
>>
>>95982149
>A lot of people complained
You mean SOME FEW people (most contrarians) complained

"A lot" of people say that spiderman is shit, he's a divisive character?"A lot of" people complain about fantastic 4 that mean is a divisive team?

No almost everyone agree that kingdom come is a great story, half dozen hipsters reeeing over something don't make it divisive.
>>
>>95977998
Salvation Run is the fourth worst one on that list.
>>
>>95985654
THY Kingdom Come, not Kingdom Come, dummy.
>>
>>95981406
Because as a concept it's ridiculous. Nazi-themed supervillains in whatever year that was show up to slaughter an entire family reunion in the most over-the-top manner possible. It's supposed to be horrific but is so grotesquely ridiculous and cartoonish that you can't take it seriously.

I will always use this example of why I have a problem with Johns as a writer: during Infinite Crisis, there's that scene where Superboy Prime lashes out against the Titans and kills a bunch of them. It's a scene that exists to go "oh god, shit's gotten real" but it's impossible to take Pantha's head bouncing along after getting punched off seriously and the entire scene becomes one big joke. Originally it was supposed to be Argent instead of Pantha but Berganza saved her (because Argent's his waifu) but more importantly instead of sitting down and thinking of a more normal way to show that Superboy Prime was powerful, violent and out of control he just substituted one D-list character for another.

In Johns' mind the ONLY way to get that point across was in the most grotesquely violent way possible. These childish attempts at being mature are a recurring theme throughout his work. Remember how Mirror Master was a coke addict (MIRRORS? COKE? GET IT?) or how Black Adam pushed Pyscho Pirate's mask through his head? I think in his Flash run he heavily impled Turtle Man was a pedophile. That continues to the present day with Ultraman snorting kryptonite like it's cocaine or the Doomsday Clock preview. Geoff Johns is a fundamentally childish and immature man with delusions of maturity and his ideas at making superhero comics mature are incredibly immature whether it be shock value violence or character traits or shallowly glomming onto the works of writers like Alan Moore. He's basically Dan Slott in a sense except not an asshole but also not as good a writer: Slott at his very best (i.e. early in his Marvel career) is better than Johns at his very best IMO.
>>
>>95985565
I think DC was still pretty good if only because of all the good stuff they published through Vertigo and Wildstorm. Also Johns' Green Lantern revolutionized the title.
>>
>>95985876
Samefag but that's not a defense of Slott. Slott at his worst is way, way worse than Johns at his worst. I'd rather re-read stuff like Blackest Night than Spider-Verse or that ASM arc where Norman takes over Symkaria.
>>
>>95981656
>Moore
Attempted to help the industry with a great anthology comic in Cinema Purgatorio, no one cared because he wasn't riding the capeshit cock (and yes I do like Superheroes)
>Ennis
Still churning out comics, did some Section 8 hilarity for DCYou and Rebirth, is doing a Hanna Barbera and Punisher book now
>Morrison
Wrote many good stories over the past 5 years, now the EiC of Heavy Metal, doing OGNs for DC
>Ellis
Still going strong, doing a Wildstorm revival for DC (it's alright but it's still an objectively good creative push for DC)
They're around.
>>
>>95976249
Blackest Noght was fantastic because it made Kyle Rayner's Fridge a Black Lantern!
>>
>>95977921
Fucking Sasha makes Duke look like Damien.
>>
>>95978580
Holy shit Firestorm die hards.

That is some low on the totem pole shit.
>>
>>95988717
behold, Geoff Johns' target audience
>>
>>95980625
Because the era where JMS was writing Superman and Wonderwoman was better?

Or the era where Liefield was writing 3 Lobo, Hawkman, and Hawk and Dove was better?

Cry For Justice Era was better?
>>
>15 Great ’00s DC Stories That Are Way Worse Than You Remember
15 COUNTDOWN/COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS - None like that and is still as bad as I remember it
14 BATTLE FOR THE COWL - it was baf and I still consider it bad
13. AMAZONS ATTACK! - was fucking garbage and still is fucking garbage
12. TRUTH OR DARE who fucking cared for this?
11. OUR WORLDS AT WAR - I read it again a few months ago and I still like it
10. THE OBSIDIAN AGE - I still like it
9. BETWEEN DARK & DAWN - No idea
8. BRUCE WAYNE: MURDERER?/ BRUCE WAYNE: FUGITIVE - did not care at the time to read it and I do not have the intention to do it now
7. THY KINGDOM COME - this JSA story was good, still is.
6. JOKER’S LAST LAUGH . this was a clusterfuck, just read it to see how nightwing killed the joker
5. BATMAN: GOTHAM UNDERGROUND - this was never a great story, again, shit story remains shit
4. SALVATION RUN - this was a guilty pleasure, it was not meant to be taken seriously
3. RUIN REVEALED - never read it
2. THE RANN/THANAGAR WAR - again, none thought this was great at his time maybe some used to consider it mediocre with a lot of luck
1. WORLD WAR III - Another guilty pleasure and not to be taken seriously. Again none consider it great in his time.
>>
>>95980788
You only named two good comics.
>>
>>95989121
which ones
>>
>>95975303

almost every one of those i knew already as a punchline. Thy Kingdom Come and WW3 are the only ones that stand out
>>
>>95981277
Holy shit the ghost of Frederick Wertham!
>>
>>95989085
>Black Adam somehow takes on almost everyone in the DCU because GUYS HE'S JUST THAT STRONG

I mean, I love Black Adam but him stomping Powergirl AND Manhunter and most of the JLA and JSA and more than half of the Superhero community? Kinda shitty. Pretty enjoyable story though despite the problems.

Amazons attack is fucking dirty asshole though, so you're not wrong.
>>
>>95989212
stomping Power Girl makes sense at least, since Magic>Kryptonians and all
>>
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>>95975303
i'd put battle of the cowl at #1
everyone wanted that story to be good and ended up thinking it was
>>
>>95988824
I apologize that you sad liberal art school fucks have to deal with comics that you can't write a college thesis about.

Christ you Berlatsky's should go back to NPR and keep whining about how no one would sleep with you in college.
>>
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>>95989284
>all this projecting
>>
>>95975365
t. CBR
>>
>>95975303
>Joker's Last Laugh

No one fucking liked that dogshit.
>>
>>95981268
I never said any of that.
>>
>>95976209
So their only complaint about Joker's Last Laugh is that it was published too fast? From the perspective of the future, when all the comics are finished and available, that's a literal non issue. That's not a problem you find looking back, that's a problem you have in the first place and then forget about later.
>>
>>95989508
it's a dumb reason even when it was coming out
>>
>>95982341
He did this to prop up Dick and Babs.
>>
>>95975450
Battl for the Cowl was ok, though everything that brought it about sucked.
>>
>>95989230
Well.. I mean just because it's "magical" strength doesn't mean it affects them more than it would affect anyone else. It's just super strength imbued by non-biological means. Super strength is just super strength. Unless we're talking the magic bolts.
>>
>>95976443
Welcome to discussing comics on the internet.

Even here on /co/ you have absolute mouthbreathers who have never even picked up a novel. There are tons of people who think Linkara is an actual critic. Literary analysis means nothing here.
>>
Kingdom Come is actually shit.
>>
>>95994373
Hence why Tom King is fellated on a daily basis.
>>
>>95976276
>Eventually, readers eventually learned
Quality writing
>>
>>95994504
No, that's why people sucked off Snyder.
King's really hit or miss and seems to have a hard time breaking out of his typical range of tone. He's written a few good things.
>>
There are a handful of comics on this list that are better than 95% of DC's output since they came out.
>>
>>95994618
Keep telling yourself that, and pretending like you aren't on your knees in the same line as people who loved Snyder.
>>
>>95994651
Sorry, I didn't realize I was a gormless dicksucker just because I liked Vision and The Omega Men but not Batman or Mister Miracle. I forgot nuanced opinions are pointless when discussing the newest spicy meme.
>>
>>95985565
>this is what Rebirthdrones actually believe.
>>
>>95994699
Well all his work has the exact same bland tone so I don't know why you're only halfway there but different strokes.
>>
>>95979580
This wasn't Johns
>>
>>95994769
Because I'm not a Neanderthal and am able to have complex opinions about works of literature? Regardless of the tone, which I personally don't care for, Omega Men was a good story. Not revolutionary, but good. Vision actually used his dour tone to its advantage and is just a good book overall.

You seemed to misunderstand the original point. The lack of literary exposure and critical thought in comics leads to simple opinions and a lack of discussion.

People who jerked Snyder off just because he was the new Batman writer; people who hated him because nuh muh batman; people who think King is infallible because he's the NEWER Batman guy; people like you, who call anyone who would dare to imply he has ever written a single good book in his entire career a cocksucker. THOSE are what I point to as results of the lack of exposure and thought in comics
>>
>>95994699
Vision is trash
>Boo hoo robots have feelings too, you guise
Fuck off with that melodramatic shit.
>>
>>95994855
Thank God we have you here to elevate the conversation with your enlightening opinions, such as this is a good book and this is a good story. I now find immense depth in King's writing instead of my previous opinion of it being substanceless dreck that is a product of the very hype machine that is ruining comics.
>>
Truth or Dare had some hot moments with Cheetah trying to cuck some wives.
>>
>>95995017
Oh don't be a little fucking bitch.
I'd love to actually talk about it, but you're sitting here telling me I suck clock since I don't agree with you and being a passive aggressive child. If you'll stop with that I'd be happy to actually have a discussion.
>>
>>95995362
But we already are, and you already did, and you have nothing to say.
>>
>>95975303
>>95975450
>>95975612
I'm surprised they didn't put Idenity Crisis on the list.
>>
>>95997201
Normies consider that good
>>
>>95989305
Keep going Noah.
>>
>>95994814
>Johns didn't write Blackest Night
wut
>>
>>95989212
>>95991761

Well, believe it or not, he was even stronger back in Fawcett. He always had Superman-level strength but with the actual fighting exp. and technique to back it up.
>>
>>95997503
it was from the Justice League tie-in, which Johns did not write
>>
>>95997964
Dr. Light's panel, yes, but Gehenna's death is from the main series.




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