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This thread is about the appreciation of horology, as well as the micro-engineering and materials engineering that are required to make a fine watch, clock, or other timepiece.

>Required Viewings For Newbies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFtI_mVOXbQ

>Strap Guide:
http://pastebin.com/SwRysprE

Previous thread:
>60443767
>>
Woops previous thread
>>60443767
>>
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First for 360,000vph
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and jmechanix anon I don't mind referring you but give me your name or initials so I have something to actually refer
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Just picked up this anniversary clock in great working order for $30. The brass could use some polishing, but otherwise in great condition.
>>
>>60475324
My dad has one like that, nice clock
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>>60475338
Yea my grandmother has a brass one. Always loved watching the pendulum(?) spin.
>>
First for perlons on two-tone Datejusts. Also still +0.0s total since April 22.
>>
Does anyone know anything about when this seiko laurel might have been made? Its a manual wind. Is it interesting or collectible in any way?
>>
>>60475431
does it have a serial number on the caseback or movement?
>>
>>60475431
Looks early 60s/late 50s to me.

Managed to find this ad for one, but no idea if it's representative of how much it usually sells for.

https://www.tradesy.com/accessories/other-seiko-laurel-1950s-vintage-japanese-manual-gold-plated-steel-watch-for-men-g17-14170021/
>>
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>>60475179

we're a small shop. they'll know.
>>
For anon that is trying to get that sweet commish.
>>60474833
>anon steals everyone's watches
I'll probably send an email tomorrow, sounds promising. So, somewhere there (or you) have experience with 214s?
>>
>>60475535
me? no. accutrons are a league of their own.

My mentor does. Fuck, he's probably the only one on the East coast who can truly repair one.
>>
>>60475658
Good job anon, he's going to love you.
If he does a good job, you have a long time customer.
>>
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Which brands are non-jewelry?
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I want a casual looking diver just for looking casual and for a beater. I want it to be sub £150. My wrist size is 6.5 inches. Hacking would be nice but I do want an automatic. What watch should I get?
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>>60475775
ty bro
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>>60475865
Anything you're not paying jewelry prices for.
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>>60475996
Seiko.
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>>60476101
Like what brands
>>
>>60476190
Anything you're not paying jewelry prices for.
>>
>>60476117
anyone know of a place to get a pepsi bezel insert for an skx013
>>
>>60476297
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-SEIKO-SKX009-PEPSI-BEZEL-INSERT-New-Take-Off-from-SKX009J1-Japan-Model-/302320146833?hash=item4663af5991:g:~GUAAOSwjL5ZHLqr
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>>60476297
Actually I really like this watch, but unfortunately I can't find it anywhere.
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>>60476374
or
>>
>>60476096
Who is this semen demon?
>>
>>60476721
Samantha Hydella@instagram.com

thank me later
>>
My boyfriend's wife just bought this for me!

Isn't it nice, it's made of wood, so it protects nature!
>>
>>60476959
Weak bait, apply yourself.
>>
>>60476975
It's called a joke
>>
>>60475016
>hey mr.service man, service me banana
So for modern watches, say stuff from the richemont group, how do you go about getting parts?

Say someone brings in a newish JLC and it requires some extra part, does richemont get bitchy about supplying you with the necessary shit? How about swatch group? Rolux? (kering? Lvmh?). Worried about the future of independent watch repairers.
>>
>>60477403
Is that a ball of gold in the P of Patek there? Fuck me dead. They must not give half a shit if you're not spending at least $100k.
>>
>>60477424
It's a screw.
>>
>>60477691
A screw right inside the lettering? How does that even happen?
>>
>>60477691
It's not a screw.
>>
>>60477403
Holy fuck man, that beveling is trash.
>>
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>implying
>>
>>60477893
Why even bother posting an absolute potato pic of your $5 watch?
>>
>>60477782
Why does Rolex movement always look proportional to its case? This shit would autism the fuck out of me...
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>>60477893
You took this picture with a scanner?
>>
>>60478048
>$5 potato watch
>still more accurate than any mechanical
Stay mad, mechfag, stay mad
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What are the most rare Vostok watches??
>>
>>60478114
Fuck off ecodrive troll.
>>
>>60478183
>>
>>60478183
>mid 1971 Lenin dial komandirskie with a Stalin bezel
>late 1989 glasnost crown amphibia with a russki standard strap
>2005 putin special edition amphibia
>>
>>60478183
>>
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How practical is a 2009 slim commie watch if worn a couple of weeks a year?

Will it stop working? Can they be sent away for repair?
>>
>>60478406
2209? They're reliable. If it works and you rarely wear it, not reason it would suddenly stop working. You can send it, but it would cost a lot unless it is back to Russia.
>>
>>60475324
Neato. Not a fan of the flowers on the dial.
>>
>>60478195
>ecodrive troll
>everyone posting in /wt/ is the same person
Why do I even bother with mechfags
>>
>>60478696
>>60478656
just report and ignore
>>
>>60478700
Why? For implying that mechanical watches arent that accurate or that there is more than one person that dislikes the opinion that digital watches are bad? Sure report and ignore, but you cant ignore the fact that quartz/quartz digitals are far more better than mechanicals.
>sundial > casio f91w > rolex
>>
>>60478769
>>60478656
>>60478114
Reported for shitting up the thread. Enjoy your ban, bye.
>>
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>>60478803
>comments in defense of quartz watches on /wt/
>gets reported by insecure anon
wow I hate myself now
>>
>>60478337
I saw someone I know go from entry level luxury to the last one :0 I pretty much agree with everything here
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>2017
>wearing watches

wew lads
>>
Are blue dials degenerate?
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>>60479424
Blue dials are great.
>>
>>60479451
>went to the only shop on my region that carries Journe
>asked about muh sacre chronobleubableubloo
>9 month waiting list at the minimum
The meme is real.
Journe's other shit can forget about being sold for the time being. Every thirsty "trendy" cashed up motherfucker wants one of these in south east asia. I can only imagine that it's just as bad elsewhere.
>>
>>60479333
trips of truth
>>
>>60479520
Journe does make a total of ~900 watches a year after all. It's nice that the journe I want happens to be their least expensive.
>>
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Grandmother gave me this watch a couple years ago when my grandfather passed away. Just put a battery in it and adjusted strap to my bitch wrists.
Can someone tell me which model it is?
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>>60479727
The back.
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Should i pull the trigger on this one? the build quality and the movement seem pretty good for the price, i like the way the dial look too.
The only thing i worry about is would i get bored of the green dial quickly? Owner opinion is more then welcome.
>>
>>60479727
>>60479746
>Can someone tell me which model it is?
>model number is clearly written on both the dial and caseback
Gee, if I have to guess: it's a Citizen Quartz.
>>
>>60479520
Don't ask about wait time for a complicated watch then.

>>60479872
>buying meme watches
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>>60479872
Yes you should. However the green dial is love or hate. If you do love it you'll love it forever.
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>>60478114
Stay jealous, ecoshill, stay jealous :^)
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>>60478337
>>
>>60478086
heh
>>
Kinda into this Mido with the lugless case and mesh band.
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>>60478337
where does the Seiko Dolce that /wt/ convinced me to buy fall on this graph?
>>
>>60479333
It's faster than pulling your shit phone out and looking at the time. Fucking normies.
>>
>>60480693
this is classy as fuck
mesh works perfectly with this thing
>>
>>60480493
>>60479872

For some reason this watch always looks good on pictures except for the wrist shots, like the one the other anon posted. It looks clumsy every time.
>>
>>60480828
Mostly just bad camera perspective.

Plus it looks better on bracelet.
>>
>>60480891
I see, here it looks completely much better. The bracelet is the key.
Does it use the same bracelet as the SARB033? I am considering getting one and putting it on the bracelet if the price of the watch keeps dropping.
>>
>>60480966
It can use the 033, but there's one made for the SARB013 and SARB015 that fits better for the same price. MOTZ111J0 is the SARB033s bracelet, and D3A7AB is the Alpinist one.
>>
>>60480712
It's a good watch. Go for it my man.
>>
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My god

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SEIKO-1977S-KING-QUARTZ-MODULE-4823-ALL-ORIGINAL-NOS-MINT-/122502761948
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It's Drill weekend and the Monster is my go to beater when in uniform.
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>>60481084
Why is it so good?
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>>60481673
cheap, accurate to +/-10 seconds per year, looks respectable, good finishing
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>>60478204
>amphibian compressor case
>>
>>60481400
How many sandniggers have you killed already shlomo?
>>
>>60482339
did you not see the pic? he IS a sandnigger
>>
>tfw no 18k case S U P E R I O R penis
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>>60482460
He is a Slav kike in the IDF, he is just tanned I think.
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>>60482691
>tanned
like the new germans amirite
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>>60481205
Hell yeah
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>>60477802
>>
>>60477802
more
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>>60482965
>>60483000

This reminds me of the chattering you find in Remington barrels ever since they got swallowed up by a corner-cutting, bottom-line sucking corporation.

IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?
>>
>>60483000
this one isn't such a fair pic
the guy that complied it should've compared the patek with basic movements from the other makers (minus the dufour of course; no "entry level" dufours)
>>
>>60482333
Get it for only $1500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/wostok-two-heads-wostok-vostok-compressor-kompresor-/162473485244

Only case and dial, no movement, no inner ring, no hands.
>>
>>60483032
...but from what I've seen and heard as the word on the street is that with lange it doesn't matter whether or not you buy the base saxonia to a zeitwerk; you can expect the same level of attention to detail.
>>
>>60478204
where
>>
>>60478204
>>60482333
>compressor case
What exactly is a compressor case?
From a cursory search I found a source saying basically it's a kind of dive watch sealing mechanism where the increasing water pressure only increased the seal. Is this right?
>>
>>60481400
Toothy monster dial is so much better than the original. I wonder why they didn't think of this sooner?
>>
>>60481531
>slanted day/date window
That's not nice.
>>
>>60482965
>>60483000
THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ABSOLUTE PERFECTION, HAUTE HOROLOGY
>>
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>>60483145
Basically yes. Technically all Amphibias are compressor watches, but the "Compress Amphibia" actually looks like a Swiss Super-Compressor style watch.

Pic related, a very typical SC.
>>
>>60478337
>eta
>hipster garbage

pick one
>>
>>60481400
It's fit for the task, but change the strap. An olive green nato would be better.
Or if you want to be a true fashionista, make your own nato in your camo pattern :^)
>>
Whats the difference between the SARX019 (the one on the left) and the SARX027 (the one on the right) in terms of the quality or even the type of the enamel dial?
>>
>>60481531
What a weird day and date indication.
>>
>>60481531
This is a phucking shitter man
A phucking shitter
>>
>>60483062
Honestly if you're into typefaces, you'll find all luxury watches are kind of trash in that respect. Even Lange, who admittedly got much much better over the years since their relaunch, still has a ton of room for improvement. They should be able to have perfect text.
Don't get me started on those microbrands that use arial.
>>
>>60483444
Dunno but take the roman numerals one
I checked ur trips too
>>
>>60483032
There's this video on YT where you see Dufour in action in his workshop.

He's fucking using sticks of wood with some diamond paste, and rubbing the bevels until they squeak like a wet finger on a clean plate.

>"Hear that squeaking? That's a good sign"
The madman.

Gotta love how he bashes his fellow Swiss for their shitty movement finishing too.
>>
>>60483308
So any compressor cased dive watch with a rotating inner bezel via external extra crown is a super compressor?
>>
>>60483623
He was asked by Seiko to help with finishing, either on Grand Seiko or credor. They had to find the equivalent japanese native tree to get equivalent magical sticks so that he could teach them his magical anlage.

Sticks is the traditional swiss method, but fuck all do it now because it's takes too much time and hand work. Easier and cheaper (and quicker) to use a hand tool/dremel.
>>
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>>60481400
Have fun with that. Got assblasted with work my last drill.
>>
>>60480693
There's something fucked up about that wrist and hand, but I can't put my finger on it.
>>
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>>60483062
>shrinking numbers on the date dial
>that kerning on WED and TUE
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>>60484134
The width of his hand is not much more than the width of his wrist.
>>
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>>60484207
>hating shrinking numbers
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>>60484057
They don't seem to care. This specialist has a bright blu strap, the 1SG has an orange tissot and last drill I wore a black and white NATO. Life's good when your PT is high.
>>
>>60484344
It fucks with my autism.
>>
>>60483062
>>60484207
>>60483032
>>60483000
>>60482965

Soooooooo, is Patek Philippe officially shitter-tier now?

Seems like they are very much pretending to be something they're not / no longer.
>>
>>60483062
>with lange it doesn't matter whether or not you buy the base saxonia to a zeitwerk; you can expect the same level of attention to detail

Doesn't every single Lange & Soehne have a custom-engraved balance cock?

That would seem to support this notion.
>>
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Is it safe to use these chink "stainless steel" mesh bracelets or do they contain lead or something?
>>
>>60484415
I have several, they're fine. Also lead has to be ingested or inhaled, it isn't absorbed through skin so just don't fucking eat your strap.
>>
>>60483827
It's of course Credor, for the Eichi II notably.
>>
>>60484415
i got a pinhen steel strap off amazon, the finish on the links is really sharp but it's actual stainless steel.

just wash it if you're worried about lead, if there is any that's dangerous to you it will be a coating on the surface from the factory it was made in.
>>
>>60483773
No, since the actual Super Compressor was a specific case made by a specific company at some time. But everyone calls them that anyway, it's become a style.
>>
>>60484366
They make some really good watches at the very high end, but they're overpriced.
They're just coasting on their reputation and "heritage" for the watches they sell in greater amounts.
>>
>>60484638
>>60484555
Thanks, also trips checked
>>
>>60484391
Yes. Story goes that if you go to Lange with your watch, they will be able to recognize who engraved your balance cock based on the style. I don't know how true this is, but I read it somewhere and I lile to believe it's true.
>>
>>60484366
>Soooooooo, is Patek Philippe officially shitter-tier now?
I wouldn't say that.
They're still miles ahead of so many.
BUT
You can't expect doubling production in 7 years without seeing some QC issues and corner cutting crop up if you don't have the appropriate infrastructure. Watchmakers pulled from the repair divisions to work on production is the implication (watchmakers don't come out of thin air, nor are they trained overnight). People think this is the likely scenario since service times have skyrocketed in the same time period - basically, it fits.

If I was in the market for a patek, and the more I read about them the more I'm less inclined to even consider them (I'm only looking at basic-tier shit right now mind you) the one line I would absolutely stay away from are the Nautilus models. I've read like a bajillion posts online and talked with many collectors and casual cashed up buyers. Accounts concerning bad patek QC tend to form a nexus point concerning this model.

It's odd, since it would make sense to me for patek to skimp on the nautilus, as it and its variants are the most in demand pateks around at the moment, but it's not as if they're churning them out non-stop such that they would be inclined to surrender QC for the sake of speed of manufacture. In fact, there's usually a waiting list to get any of these overhyped and over rated pieces.

Is patek just churning them out in droves and stocking them up for slow and limited release?
>>
>>60484802
How do you feel about VC?

I like the crusader cross, and honestly the design of their patrimony traditionnelle is the GOAT dress watch, but I don't know much else about their "haute horlogerie" credentials.
>>
>>60484802
There is speculation, due to the sheer number of complaints, that the basic nautilus model's movement just must be badly designed because the date is found to be often misaligned in the little window. Patek may or may not have quietly fixed this issue, as complaints seem to have petered off for the meanwhile.

Still many accounts of probs with the steel cases and bracelets (same goes for the other steel patek, the aquanaut), some, when you read them are vicariously infuriating. Imagine spending 50k on a fucking steel "sporty looking watch" (that's not actually a sports watch) and finding out that the pic related disrepency is "acceptable level of finishing".

Basically, with the steel nautilus bracelets they're assembled with pins to hold the links, then they're laser welded and sanded down and till they're invisible, giving the bracelet an impressive one piece illusion. Those little circles in pic related should not be seen. In fact, in the thread where this sap is complaining others chimed in to say that they bracelets were fine and thus the "acceptable qc" line was just totaly bullshit.

50k steel watch, and one half of the bracelet looks like shit, and the other half is what you paid for. To be honest, t wouldn't be so bad if the whole thing was like the poorly finished right side; at least there would be consistency.


--- Patek assembles these bracelets with pins. Going up the bracelet, these pins at the factory are laser welded and then sanded down until they cannot be seen by the naked eye.
>>
Grand Seiko totally ruined all high-end dress watches for me. Because when you can get top-tier finishing for few kilobux, why would you pay more?
>>
>>60484909
From the same watch (which was itself a replacement for this sap's first issue riddled piece). I've had shitters with better lume application.

People can say that all these accounts online (and the shit I've heard in person) are just "one offs" and all that shit.

But have a search for yourself and read the bitching. And then go and read patek's bs about their "patek philippe seal" that they replaced the geneva seal with, and tell me whether or not even these supposed "one off" fuck ups should even be possible with qc like that. Same goes for JLC's "1000 hours master control" tested bullshit.
>>
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>>60484347
They didn't care about my red GWM or Alpinist. Only time anyone cared was when I was in the Marine reserves. Then again we weren't even allowed to use out pockets in the marines.
>>
>>60484884
They use ebauches more than some of the other big brands, but they finish them quite well to an exceptional standard. They're also owned by Richemont which kind of sucks, although Richemont doesn't seem hellbent on destroying brands like LVMH or Swatch and generally does a good job. They still only make 20,000 watches a year and haven't gone into full "churn out oversized monstrosities for the slant eyed shrimp dicks" like Patek, AP, and basically everyone else has. Sadly, VC is soft for collectors so good luck ever making money or otherwise retaining the value in what you do buy.

I would actually consider them a true horological enthusiast's watch as you're spending Patek money for something a little off center and unique, in a good way.

Plus Richemont has turned their watchmakers loose and went "lol just make whatever crazy shit you want and then price it as much as a house" so you see cool horological pieces coming from them all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InYrmk3Ezb8
>>
>>60484994
The handwound calibers like in that patrimony traditionnelle is in-house though, right?
>>
>>60484884
I believe we've had this conversation before (perhaps a few times if you're that anon/s). But if you're not:

I like the few pieces I've held in my hands. I especially like that one you posted; it's one of my current contenders. My reservations are due to richemont fuckery, and of course that niggling feeling about potential resale value in the future (which will be poor, if current performance is any judge).

I don't buy shit to sell; I never got the whole "flipper" culture common in watch collecting circles. I research the shit out of something to the verge of autism and buy the best thing I can find and afford and then forget about that whole genre, usually moving on to some other product entirely. I'm only coming back to watches to fill a hole in the watch box. But I would be lying if I didn't say I considered future resale value at all.

Like 20 years back my father was forced to sell his patek, but the money was needed at the time. Nevertheless he didn't get totally shafted even if he didn't recoup the initial loss. If the same were to happen to me, I'm thinking having money couped up in a VC wouldn't be as good as having it in a rolex or a PP, despite all the shit I've been hearing about them. (It doesn't have to be good, enough people just have to think it's good).

The brand doesn't have enough of an identity IMO, and that makes it somewhat weak, despite them crafting a few wonderful pieces. There's no iconic VC. And it's iconic shit that keeps a brand strong (and thus around), even if some of them have gone overboard in milking that iconic piece to death (AP) or gone off the rails like omega with its million speedy man on shit limited editions.

That's all overarching stuff though, and the patrimony traditionelle is one sweet little number when you just focus on just the watch. I like also how the calibre 4400 has basically been designed for ease of repair, unlike say Lange's fragile snowflake movements (german silver).
>>
>>60484909
That's how the RO bracelets are done too, except they seem to be doing a better job of it.
>>
>>60485228
>I never got the whole "flipper" culture common in watch collecting circles.
It really is cringy as fuck.

These people are just chasing the fleeting sensation of owning something new and shiny every few weeks.

It truly is a mark of a lack of character in a man.
>>
>>60485228
VC should go all-in with the crusader theme, and start calling for the reconquest of Constantinople.

That'll give the brand some personality.
>>
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>>60485129
The cal.4400 is in house VC, yes. VC only got into the inhouse game later than all the other big names.

One caveat I have concerning this is due to what I classify as part of "richemont fuckery", though it's a benign form compared to other shit that can be pinned on them.

How much of the design of the cal.4400, or any VC inhouse movement is actually VC work and not JLC's? JLC is still the "watchmaker's watchmaker", and you'll find their shit inside other richemont brand watches like IWC.

It's not a bad thing, to potentially have jaeger watchmakers's input into designing a vc piece, they certainly have the expertise, but it makes it less special to me. Mind you I have no proof that this has happened, but JLC's meddled with virtually every other richemont brand that it wouldn't be a stretch to see them doing so in VC.

But, as far as I know, VC declared in-house shit is in-house.

But that's the thing with a mass conglomerate; there's a lot of sharing around of ideas and shit, and sometimes you get bullshit like with the swatch group: tissot's "inhouse movement" lmao, or even omega's co-axial development, which if some rumours are true have had very little contribution from actual omega teams and it's really all just ETA's doing.

An independent, apart from the odd ebauche, is all on their own for the most part and shit is unique to them.
>>
>>60484921
Because while I do love my Grand Seiko's and agree they are a (relative) bargain for the price they still don't compare to the best dress watches by PP, VC or ALS. But of course you're talking about paying at least 3 times the price of a GS.
>>
>>60485397
What JLC model(s) compare to the VC Patrimony if you have to pick instead? I can't really say I know much about Jaeger LeCoultre
>>
Vostok amphibians
>ugly
>big
>extremely imprecise

Why are they a meme?
>>
>>60485496
Cheap, Russian, moddable.
>>
>>60478337
Rolex wanted $250 to overhaul my mom's old Datejust that is still working fine. If that's not raping then I don't know what is. I could buy a nice Videocard for $250, fuck some good Seikos cost $250...
>>
>>60485327
I did find it somewhat funny, but I took a whirl through harrods last time I was in london (hate the place; it's basically arab domain) mainly to go through their watch section.

Low and behold, what would be clogging up the VC alcove but some kind of middle easterner. As I walked past I overheard something along the lines of
>"I only ever buy vacheron, it has been my favourite brand for 15 years!"
Or some shit.
I wonder if the history behind the symbol on his precious pieces eludes him? More like he's made of money like all of them and are beyond giving a shit
lol
Like one guy I saw at the airport one time, fat arab with his harem of black ambulatory garbage bags following him around and a few chubby, whinging runts: guy had on, no joke, a salmon pink velour tracksuit - pants and top - hightop rick owens sneaks, and a massive gaudy gold ROO. And probably beats headphones on, maybe some other meme pricey brand that's not that good. Not a sight I'll forget. It was hilarious.

Guy had so much wealth there was just no time to spare fucks for anything. It must be nice to be able to wear a fucking clownsuit and make up to boot, sit in first class forever and give no shits about anything, including health, since you can just buy a new kidney or something.
>>
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>tfw no Geophysic 1958

It's a bad feel
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>>60485582
Fucking oil money mang.

The Brits must have been kicking themselves when it turned out Arabia was full of oil like that after giving it to the Arabs the way they did.
>>
>>60485571
250 is a very reasonable price bro.

Working on a movement is high-skill manual labor, it's going to cost a lot of money regardless of what watch it is, even a seiko 5.
>>
>>60485492
What truly compares I couldn't say. I have been looking at JLC's Master Ultra Thin line, though.

Thing with JLC, an oft repeated, is that they're offering high horology for rolex prices. In some ways that kinda true. Not counting frederique constant, JLC have I believe the least expensive, inhouse, perpetual calendar.

They tend to release steel models along side gold models with the same calibre, which the real higher ups don't do. Means if you can't afford the gold complicated watch there is a considerably cheaper steel edition. Whatever.

I've looked at the Master Ultra Thin (MUT), small second, moonphase and perp.calendar. It's kinda awesome to have a steel variant that makes things much cheaper, but it also show just how much of a rip their precious metals variants are. Same movement, same level of finishing therein, just a different case material (and hands, and applied indicies). Key issue there is same finishing.

Feel in hand: the MUT moon and perp.calendar, gold or steel, felt somehow flimsier, certainly more delicate, than the VC, Lange and patek I'd handled.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, they're ultra thin dress watches after all so that they can slide so seamlessly under a cuff.

Whatever reservations I might have against VC (or Lange for that matter) in regards to richemont service are magnified 10 fold with JLC.

Look up JLC service issues and you're in for a wild ride. You might even vow never to even consider purchasing shit from them after reading just one harrowing tale. I flip flop. I know they're bad, but they're also so good!

JLC I believe are the only swiss maker (like, serious maker, not some minuscule independent ) to have never, ever used another company's movements. They're a manufacture, through and through.

Oh, and the moonphase was kind lacklustre in person. Kinda a little bit of a letdown to be honest.
>>
>>60485815
So, how much does it cost to fix one of those complications or tourbillions?
>>
>>60485496
>extremely imprecise
Not true though. My amphibian was +/-5sec per day, as my SKX always gains at least 30sec.
>>
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>>60485496
>ugly
>big

No, pic related.

>extremely imprecise
>he isn't capable of opening it and adjusting it in order to achieve +-1s
>>
>>60485883
Also about $ 250.
>>
>>60485823
Another thing that kinda annoys me about JLC at the moment:
I also don't like how they're in fucking disney/marvel comic movies as overt as fuck product placement.

I cringed watching, I think it was Iron Man 2, where downey jr.'s character says loudly as his assistant mulls over a watchbox "the jaeger, I'll give that a look", with strong emphasis on "jaeger".

Noticed the same thing watching dr.strange where his MUT perpetual gets a few massive fullscreeners throughout the film.

That annoys me. Still, rolex did it back in the day, and those thirsty tards omega were just begging to follow in their footsteps pierce brosnan onwards. But that's those companies. Somehow I would've though JLC was above that.

Still, keep the money coming in for them, right? When trying on the perp.cal the boutique assistant mentioned it was "dr.strange's watch! like in the movie!" as if it was a major selling point. I asked him if this model was getting a lot of attention in store after the film and he said yes, so there you go.
>>
>>60485823
Be honest, a Grand Seiko blows the living snot out of a steel JLC of the same price, right?
>>
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>tfw you fell for the smart watch meme
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>>60485883
>So, how much does it cost to fix one of those complications or tourbillions?
Depends on what's wrong. How much it really costs to repair or service is different to how much any given company charges. Tourbillions I wouldn't hope to have a service below $1k desu.
Depends on how badly it's fucked up.

JLC MUT perpetual calendar service is apparently $1800. I don't think I'd want to be paying 1.5k++ (only increasing as time goes buy) just to maintain a complicated watch. This isn't repair mind you, but a regular servicing that should be done every couple of years if you don't want you shit to fuck up and cost even more to fix.

Haute Horologie and grand complications are really a "keep paying to play" kinda game. I feel like keeping it simply, as tempting as some of this stuff can be.
>>
>>60485674
I fucking love that watch
>>
>>60486064
i love grand seikos. as an old school watchfag who has owned dozens of rolex, IWC, breitling, omega, sinn, bell & ross, tudor, and many others - the grand seikos are the best bang for the buck luxury watches i have ever seen....
>>
>>60486212
It's great isn't it? so much nicer than the regular Geophysic

Shame it was only a limited edition, and that I don't have £7k
>>
>>60486064
Finishing and QC wise, from what I can see with my naked eye, yes. (i'd imagine that if you brought a loupe the jlc would be an embarrassment by comparison). But GS are rather staid. As nice as they are, they're just very exciting, are they? You can get a gmt and highbeats, and that's about it. JLC has small seconds, moonphase, perpetual calendars, annual calendars, two watches in one (reverso duo), and a bunch of other shit in steel. Still, I don't know if I can't be arsed with potential JLC fuckery. My country's local seiko repair guys have been trained to handle hibeats, so there's that. I think JLC's all have to go back to Switzerland in my case, especially the complicated variants.
>>
>>60486192
Hey post one of your $100,000 watches.
>>
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>>60486272
>As nice as they are, they're just *not very exciting,
ftfm
>>
>>60485582
>salmon pink velour tracksuit - pants and top - hightop rick owens sneaks, and a massive gaudy gold ROO
Kek'd.
>>
>>60485674
apart from the font on the numerals it's a masterpiece. the new sector dials they showed at basel are really fucking good too.
>>
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Is buying a calf leather strap with lizard pattern instead of buying an original lizard leather strap a bad idea?

I can't find any original lizard strap in the 30€ range, and especially in this colour.
>>
>>60486034
most people don't know that expensive watches exist apart from rolex and hublot. getting eyeballs on a nice MUT perpetual is a good thing for the watch industry as a whole desu.
>>
>>60486313
I think that's exactly correct. Grand Seiko is also sort of an outlier in that they simply don't charge the kinds of prices anyone else would for that much labor lavished on ~5,000 watches a year.
>>
>>60485766
You look at the history and just have to wonder what the fuck they were thinking. Okay, okay "end of empire" and all that shit, loss of vitality and will ot fight
>muh suez
But even after, the gulf arabs went first to the fucking brits for help in exploiting their new found black gold, but the brits couldn't be bothered. So, arabs went to the new world anglo empire, america, and that's basically how we end up with today and all the resultant bullshit.

Harrods still has a really nice watch section though. Got to see some Moser&Cie in person so that made braving the tasteless egyptian motifs and wacko golden diana/dodi dove shrine worth it.
>>
>>60486313
I've seen all the SBGW251/2/3 models up close and honestly they weren't anything special. Only the platinum model really stood out as it had a much better finish that the others.

The whole point of the GS is that you get a lot of watch for your money but the gold and platinum models are in the region of high-end swiss models which all look better so I could never see myself getting one.

On the other hand I thought the SBGR305 was excellent.
>>
>>60486464
More Moser facts:

I believe every model has a power reserve feature ON THE FLIP side, so you'd look in through the display back.

Now that makes me wish that other companies did the same thing, especially on their simple dress watches. Don't need to clutter up the dial, but you have an extra complication on the back you can look at when you need to.

Also, their escapements are weird. They're designed to be easily removed and replaced. Just unscrew it and pop it out. As part of ordinary service, they will replace the entire escapement of your watch with a new one, fully tested, fully operation and up to tolerances.

This kinda bothers me though, as it's straying into the whole thing that bothers me about cheapo quartz modules that are just chucked out and replaced when they go bad. The escapement is like the watch's heart, and to gut it and plop in a new one, well, a retarded part of me wonders if I can call it the same watch.

But it's not theseus's ship, it's just a fucking watch, right? (right?)
>>
>>60486423
Real lizard is too delicate. Buy whatever, still looks like shit whatever it's made out of IMO.
>>
>>60486474
I'd go for an SBGH001 over any of them anyway, personally.
>>
>>60475026
I am a fan of clean watches. Anyone know any that makes clean and unbusy watches such as mondaine?
>>
>>60486644
>>
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>>60486644
>>60486657
>>
>>60486657
I am asking for watches not whatever the fuck that is
>>
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>>60486644
The Soviet Union made some nice clean watches.
>>
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>>60486644
>Not posting the superior helvetica watches
>>
>>60486583
yes pr on the back is great. the eichi ii has it, a few other models too, and it makes so much sense.
>>
>>60486706
specifically what brand? Vostok is the only Russian Brand I know and that doesn't look like a vostok.
>>
>>60486644
nomos

>>60486744
it says pobeda on the dial dude cmon

>>60486725
awful
>>
>>60486725
>>60486677
>>
>>60486762
>Nomos
>awful
>having this much of a shit taste
>>
>>60486624
ofc that's a great watch but I was only looking at new models. I'm interested to see what new Hi-Beats they release post-Seiko independence.
>>
>>60486423
ah yes, the star of david pattern
>>
>>60482333
>not getting the reissue
Plebs
>>
>>60486474
>but the gold and platinum models are in the region of high-end swiss models which all look better so I could never see myself getting one.
I've gotten the same sense. The gold seiko's make even less sense than the gold swiss watches, if any sense at all can be ascribed to the industry of luxury watches at all that is.

>>60486474
>On the other hand I thought the SBGR305 was excellent.
I really don't like that one. I find the case (and crown) inelegant compared to the SBGW's, and the horribly clumsy choice of font for "AUTOMATIC" is a crime, though that criticism can't be levelled at just that model as horrible typeface is now the standard across the relabeled GS line.

Also, I don't like the chapter ring. It's too technical for a dress watch. If they'd had pips instead I think that would improve the looks a lot for me. Nice dial texture though.
>>
>>60486776
do you actually think that piece of shit mondaine is better than nomos?
>>
>>60486800
I think they are both shit. Nomos is overpriced garbage.
>>
>>60486744
Vintage Pobeda, Zim, Poljot (especially de luxe models), Raketa watches made from the 50's to the 70's.
You can get on eBay some interesting pieces with a nice horological history and clean movements for 30-50€. Downsides are the chromed brass cases instead of stainless steel (chrome playing can wear off with use) and also the lack of water resistance.
You should ask on here before purchasing one because there are a lot of franken watches out there (not fully original watches made out from parts from other models).
>>
>>60486840
thanks anon, finally found the answer I was looking for.
>>
>>60486272
>My country
Where's that?
>>
>>60486790
Are you on the wait list?
>>
>>60486817
Here are the simple facts: Nomos are literally the first new company to develop the capacity to design and manufacture mechanical movements including escapements on a series production basis since the 1960s. They join Raketa, Vostok, Orient, Citizen, Seiko, ETA, Damasko and Rolex as the only non haute horlogerie companies capable of this.

Developing this capability took a several year and ~12 million Euro investment in escapements and a further ~2 million Euro investment in designing the ultra-thin DUW 3001 calibre. These are enormous investments from a company with an annual sales volume of 10,000 - 20,000 units, and as a result must necessarily be reflected in increased unit prices.

In an affordable luxury watch market heavily dominated by Chinese-cased ETA-powered marketing-driven shitters, any watchmaker that makes the investments required to become a manufacture and actually increase the technical diversity of series produced mechanical movements should be applauded no matter whether you like the aesthetics of their product line. To the extent that Nomos succeeds by following this path, it may serve to encourage more investment in the technical aspects of watchmaking by other companies rather than just investing in more value engineering (i.e. cost-cutting) and more advertising.

Just in the last 10 years we have gone from a $1,000-$4,000 market where every single watch was powered by an ETA movement to one where you can now choose between ETA, Tudor, Nomos, and Seiko (8rXXs, 8LXXs) and Damaskos. How can this development be regarded as bad for people interested in horology, regardless of whether you would personally buy any of those watches yourself? If only Miyota and Seiko would add micro-adjuster models to their ebauche offerings and Tudor would begin to use their in-house movement in more models, we could return to an era of real competition in movements in production watches not seen since the glory days of the 1970s.
>>
>>60486877
No, the main list.
>>
>>60486644
Seiko SARB033/035
Seiko SARX033/035
>>
>>60486798
I have no issue with the font and the chapter ring actually works for me. But yeah, it's the dial that really sells it.
>>
>>60486583
I really wish GS would put the power reserves on the back.
Would make the snowflake so much better.
>>
>>60486898
Anon... you triggered his autism. What have u done.
>>
>>60486898
HAhah didn't read!!!!
>>
>>60486930
Damn. I thought I was the only person that wanted that. It kind of clutters the dial being on the front IMO.
>>
What happens if I buy an Oysterquartz and the quartz capsule shits itself? They have to replace the whole thing?
>>
>>60486909
Which one are you getting? And when do you think you will receive it?
>>
>>60486909
Sorry anon but they are fucking hideous :/
>>
>>60486898
Literally at that point, what is the point? Watches these days are accurate enough and people are really all going for aesthetics these days. It was just a bad decision on Nomos part.
>>
>>60486777
>post-Seiko independence.
You know that's just in name, right?
It's still really part of seiko. The intricacies of japanese companies and their subsidiaries is mindbogglingly complex.

I remember when guys tried to track down all the companies that supplied GS with parts, looking for that "aha!" bit of evidence that would disprove claims of GS's total inhousityness.
Tracing the screw makers and even the lube oil producers lead all the way back to seiko.

The zaibatsu are a tangled skein.
And if there's a Hattori on the board of this "independent GS", you can be sure it's still under seiko dominion.

It's whispered that the Hattori's share a hive mind, and that old Kintaro himself lives on in this mindscape generated by his descendants. Every time you look at the Grand Seiko Rion you strengthen Kintaro's essence through memetic reinforcement, paving the way for his rebirth into new flesh.
>>
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>>60487016
Honestly even if it's only in name, at least it makes the dials cleaner.
>>
>>60487045
Much cleaner.

That generic S E I K O logo had no place on the dial.
>>
>>60487016
>I remember when guys tried to track down all the companies that supplied GS with parts, looking for that "aha!" bit of evidence that would disprove claims of GS's total inhousityness.
why the fuck would someone do that?
even the cheapest seiko 5 is entirely in-house, while rolex outsources hands.
>>
>>60487045
Pretty much this. The only difference I can tell is the new cleaner text and the 10% increase in price across all new models.
>>
>>60487045
Fuck that is such a sweet watch, but like
>>60486930
>>60486964
say if the spring drive power reserve was on the back it would improve the looks greatly.
All the damn SD models have to have that eyesore power reserve for some reason.

Power reserves in general I've found to be so unnecessary, at least if it was on the back it wouldn't bother me but could still potentially be of some use.
>>
>>60486997
LOL what a fucking terrible opinion. Go buy $3,000+ ETA dogshit for the rest of your life you inveterate pleb.
>>
>>60487055
>while rolex outsources hands.
citation needed
>>
>>60487053
As someone pointed out a while ago, its weird that they kept an arial font spring drive on the watch. Then again I wouldn't mind, I don't like complicated fonts or numerals on wathces.
>>
>>60487082
>>60486964
Seiko moved the power reserve on the Eichi from the dial to the back, maybe it's a sign of things to come for the GS.
>>
PHUCK ME DEAD I can't decide between a quartz Dolce and a SARB. I just want a reliable watch with good finishing. I like the (almost) sweeping second hand of a mechanical, but I also love the simplicity of using a quartz daily.
>>
>>60487055
>rolex outsources hands
Talk shit, post link
>>
>>60487120
>Seiko moved the power reserve on the Eichi from the dial to the back
Yeah and that totally made sense as the PR hand ruined the clean and neat look of the first eichi. But I'm not as hopeful with GS.
>>
>>60487120
I'd sell a family member for an Eichi II, it's a beautiful thing.
>>
>>60487086
>pleb
>For trying to justify buying $3000+ watches
Yeah ok buddy, and I wear watches under 500 at most.
>>
>>60487129
just get one of those dressy quartz bulovas with sweeping seconds in the same price range.
>>
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>>60487161
vs this.

Kinda miss having the old logo at 12 there, as silly as it is. I've never looked into the reasoning behind credor's logo.
>>
>>60487170
It's okay to be a poorfag ITT, just don't shit on everything you can't afford, pleb
>>
>>60487211
>Oh shit he doesn't want to buy overpriced watches for $3000+
>I will just call him poor that will do it
k. I make a decent salary and can actually afford it, but there is no way in hell I am going to spend that much on a watch when the only function it serves is to tell time and nearly all clocks and watches, even made in china, do that accurately enough. Aesthetics, sure I can give a couple 100 or even a 1000 if I really like that style, but you want me to fork over that much money for a basic looking watch because of some esoteric mechanism that is superior in a market where the functionality of a watch has already been nailed down, then hell no.
>>
>>60486985
4. Late this year or sometime next, if they don't fuck up production again like they did with the last LE. Pic related, 300 weren't produced.

>>60486994
:^)
>>
>>60487055
>while rolex outsources hands.
Considering rolex smelts its own gold, allowing them to create all sorts of unique alloys, and that their hands are all made out of gold, I find this very hard to believe. No other watchbrand does this.

Seiko does not smelt its own gold to the best of my knowledge, unless they own some subsidary company but that's not seiko's timecorp owning things, that'd be some industrial part of the patchwork quilt that is seiko overall. Whether you could call such a thing, if it existed "in-house" smelting I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me if they did, but having heard nothing about their gold watches that makes them stand out I can't say.
>>
>>60487295
Nobody cares what shit you buy and what you don't. Just let people pay higher money for cool haute pieces if they want to, okay? No need to shit on them
>>
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>>60486744
Raketa is watch kino.
>>
>>60487201
It's a representation of the Japanese character for mountain, 山. It's also a representation of a sawtooth wave spectrum but I'm not sure it's as relevant.
>>
>>60484134
>There's something fucked up about that wrist and hand, but I can't put my finger on it.

wearing his watch ahead of/on the bone
>>
>>60487295
Not the same guy but what the fuck are you doing on /wt/ if this is your attitude? The man is just stating that more competition is better. No need to display your power level by trying to tell us how much you earn.
>>
>>60487333
Alright, sorry. You are right in that opinion.
>>
>>60487381
He called me a poorfag first so he struck first on the whole power level salary dick measuring contest... and His main point was talking about why Nomos were superior watches, not about competition.

And I am here to find aesthetic watches?
>>
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>>60486644
If you were willing to shill out money for that garbage, then you would like this. Quality is probably better too desu... Mondaine is notorious for qa issues.
>>
I know what you'll say.
>>
>>60487493
doesn't look too bad, I have seen worse.
>>
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Muh linen dial.
>>
>>60487433
That wasn't me that called you a poorfag, because my point wasn't even about money per se.

Look, you might not care about the movements that power watches but that's very thing is in large part the focus of horology.

More diversity in movements and more watchmakers actually concentrating on making watches rather than being marketing firms is inherently a good thing for people interested in horology. Still today the overwhelming majority of watches between $750 and $3,000 are outrageously overpriced Chinese cases ETA shitters hawked to plebs with marketing. We desperately need more production watchmakers in that segment who actually care about watchmaking.
>>
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>>60487493
>RGM
It's nice to have an actual american watchmaker again, and one to have made an american tourbillion, but they still use tarted up ETA's and their designs overall are kind bleh. Not that engineers corp one, but that's just a homage to the original watch. They're also still well into the big watch fad that can not fade any fucking faster. (makes sense as they are basically using pocketwatch inspired movements in wristwatches)

I haven't looked closely enough at their in-house calibre. Is it truly unique to them? Or is there some fuckery afoot?
>>
>>60487493
>optional hacking seconds lever
>$1250
>>
>>60487662
Then that response was not directed towards you, it was directed towards the guy who called me a poorfag then.

I already understand ur reasoning and it is because of people who are interested into horology. My argument was that the group was too niche and people wear watches more for practicality and aesthetic reasons rather then an interest in watches. If you meant competition, it is rare to find watches that are so inaccurate in time that it fails functionality wise.

If you really are into horology, sure fine what am I to argue, go ahead.
>>
>>60475026
I know nothing of watches. I own this.
Kinda regret buying it since I never use it.

R8 pls. How much shit it is?
A. Total shit
B. Kinda shit
C. Overpriced shit
D. Not that shitty
>>
>>60487968
A and C
>>
>>60487968
kek
>>
>>60487968
>A. Total shit
Fraid so.
Any mass mall fashion brand watch is automatically shit. There have never been exceptions to this rule. They're all made in the same factories in china for $.0000000000000001 dollars and sold to unsuspecting, undiscerning shoppers for 1000x what they're worth.

But, if you like it, it's not shit FOR U
Objectively though? It's a turd that ticks.
>>
>>60487994
>>60488005
>>60488021
T-thanks, just as I suspected
>>
>tfw I am sweating so much I would probably ruin any watch I have that is not a diver
>>
>>60486034
>all text and digits are classy serif fonts
>except the year in bog standard generic font

These '''details''' bring an amazing watch down to shitter level IMO
>>
>>60487709
they use re purposed Hamilton railroad watch movements.

sure, its "american", but its old stock that hamilton couldn't liquidate when shit hit the fan, and its not RGM's.

still, RGM makes a beautiful watch.
>>
>>60485228
Can you list products you've researched till autism?
>>
> seiko alpinist have gone up $100 in price

Is this TGVs doing?
>>
>>60488746
:^)

https://youtu.be/pmXY7Dl_T8Y
>>
>>60488756
autism
>>
>>60488746
it got discontinued
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>>60488920
I thought that was the cucktail time? Which hasn't gone up in price strangly
>>
>>60488827
T. Tristano
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>>60488827
>>
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>>60480693
The silver one is nice too
>>
>>60488947
Maybe I'm mistaken but that is what I've heard
>>
>find a seamaster that I want on ebay
>opening bid 99 cents
>for some reason it ended at $150
>faggot seller relisted before auction expires
>bid again for 99 cents
>this time no one even bothered to try to outbid me
Fucking retard that ebay let people do stupid shit like this...
>>
>>60489291
i can't figure out why you're complaining
>>
>>60489344
Because he will only relist it again and again until he gets the ridiculous price he wants.
>>
>>60489422
oh, I thought you'd won it
>>
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Which one would you guys prefer?
I am more or less new in this watch thing.

I know they are Quartz (every second counts and I don't move much)

Is sapphire vers important?
Is Boccia a china product (It's part of a german watchmaker)?
>>
>>60489291
What's funny is he's to stupid to just set a reserve. Every time he does that though the buyer can file a complaint until he can't sell on ebay.
>>
>>60490334
I don't like the boccio's dial desu. And for that reason wouldn't cop it.
>>
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Why do people pay thousands for this low effort Chinese looking watch?

I've seen the same bezels on watches that cost $20
>>
>>60491164
All "Swiss made" watches are Chinese. They're paying for the brand name.
>>
>>60491342
Well, not Rolex and the haute horlogerie brands.
>>
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My Chinese shitter beater arrived, honestly I was expecting it to be much shittier. The movement has hacking and hand winding, which I did not expect. The bracelet has a butterfly deployment clash, and is surprisingly comfortable. The polishing isn't anything to write home about, but it isn't total shit either.
>>
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It arrived, but holy fuck is that band small.

Definitely made for tiny Jap wrists back in the 70's.
>>
>>60491641
>day, no date
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>>60491897
I didn't like the look of the dial on the version with it.
>>
>>60491891
Nice!
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>>60491891
I'm jelly.
Where tou bought it and how much?
>>
So what is the opinion on military watches, especially the brand g-shock
>>
>>60487303
so whats the story with the vostok "compressor" watches with interior bezels and super luminova? who makes them is that google doc list on that forum again?
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>>60488439
that is wayy too big on you m8
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>>60492923
looks okay to me. zero lug overhang.
>>
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Golden watch from Chenxi for only $20 on AliExpress

Should I go for it? thoughts?

looks classy as fuck

>inb4 hurr durr made in china is bad
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>>60492976
to each their own i guess but i think people that wear watches which are almost the same size as their wrist are a little retarded
>>
>>60493014
Not the Anon you're talking with, but I personally prefer at least 40mm watches as it's easier for me to read at a glance. With a 7 inch wrist, I think I can comfortably pull it off, as well.
>>
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>>60493014
Perspective/focal length also makes a big difference.
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>>60493076
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>>60493089
>>
>>60492492

It looks a lot better than my shitty photo with shitty lighting shows, I got it off fromjapan and I paid 90 bucks without including shipping & handling.
>>
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>>60493108
>>
>>60492993
Go for it if you want (Chenxi is okay).
Guanqin/Parnis/Alpha/Tao International is more proven and reliable tho.

Typically, Watchfags would want a Beijing/Seagull/Celadon becuz of 'muh' pedigree, heritage and workmanship.
>>
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>>60485496

name another mechanical watch you would wear into the woods and water that can take a beating and that you wouldn't mind losing?
>>
>>60493076
>>60493089
>>60493108
>>60493127

m8 those are rather garish
>>
>>60492993
Hurr durr made in china is bad!
>>
>>60492993
Looks trashy as fuck. Will look even worse in real life.
>>
>>60490334
The Seiko isn't named after a ball game for cripples.

Also it's probably the better watch.
>>
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>>60491897
>>day, no date
Say what? It's date only with no day, which looks better. Why would you ever get a day only complication?
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>>60492993
>Looks classy as fuck
No. Kys.
>>
>>60488576
>sure, its "american", but its old stock that hamilton couldn't liquidate when shit hit the fan
I always wondered what happened to all that stuff. Was it just sitting in a warehouse somewhere for like 50 years?

I once saw on ebay a crate of pre-war(1) Junghans pocketwatch movements. Maybe 100 of them, all still individually wrapped by krauts that died in one war or the other. If I hadn't been a poor student at the time I'd have bought the damn thing for shits and giggles.
>>
Which one of you was this?

http://watchguy.co.uk/fake-watches-maybe-its-just-the-owners/
>>
>>60484802
>there's usually a waiting list to get any of these overhyped and over rated pieces.
fucking lol
Just been reading about this:

In london the dealer waiting list for the basic nautilus 5711 is 6 fucking years.
6 years for a non-grancomplication, qc riddled overpriced lump of overplayed and overhyped ordinary steel - not even rolex's special stainless.
>>
I'm looking at Orient Ray and Mako... can't decidde between black/raven and blue dial... it's so hard to decide.. .help me anons
>>
>>60495736
Well...First decide.
Ray.
Or Mako.
Personally I'd say the Ray.
Then flip a coin for Blue/Black
>>
What is the cheapest black (non-shiny) leather bracelet for 20mm lug width? I know, the pastebin and everything but what are your personal preferences /wt/?
>>
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Should I do it /g/?
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>>60496028
>shitty quartz chronograph for only $300 + shipping and handling
Go ahead bro.
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>>60495736
If mako, get blue. If ray, also get blue.
I think the mako's blue is more vibrant than the ray's.
>>
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r8 my phucking shitter
>>
New thread
>>60496532
>>60496532
>>
>>60496537
what a shit thread




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