[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [vip] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/his/ - History & Humanities



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



Pre modern people:
Work six hours a day max
Lots of holidays, real holidays where the entire community would get together in song, dance, and feasting, not this "take one day off work and get drunk by yourself" bullshit
Colorful clothing, elegant ceder hats
Bountiful food including salmon, natural berries, mushrooms, and elk
Drugs nonexistent, except for some patches of psychedelic mushrooms which pop out of the earth for one season a year
Fresh water pours from ever creek and valley into a pristine sea
Wake up with the rising of the sun and the songs of the birds
Spend the winter around a fire telling the stories of your ancestors
Live within a community that will always have your back
Die knowing your name will live on in the stories and songs of your community until the end of time


Post modern people:
Work eight hours a day, plus a minimum of one hour unpaid commute time, plus the time to actually convert that money into food and resources
Maybe two weeks of holiday time per year, which you celebrate alone
Social events such as clubs and bars are strictly stratified by class, antisocial in nature, and generally revolve around the commodification of sex
Clothing is dark colored and utilitarian, patterns/flourishes are shunned or garish, hats are ugly cotton sacks and rarely worn
Food is limited to corn products and factory meat, anything that's not genetically modified and doesn't come from a can generally costs an arm and a leg
A new potentially deadly drug gets invented every week and can be bought by anyone with an internet connection. Tobacco and liquor everywhere, addiction is common
Pollutants which leak from every ditch and pipe into a brown murky sea
Lie in bed till three in the morning while the cars zip by outside your cramped apartment
When you die every scrape of your existence will be scrubbed from your home so it can be sold to highest bidder


Was agriculture a mistake?
>>
>>2532891
>ITT: op is feeling lonely and edgy again
>>
We progressed. We conquered nature. Get over it.
>>
>>2532891
Ignorance is bliss
>>
>>2532914
>its a grainjew shilling episode
>>
File: 1489840644961.jpg (229 KB, 818x611)
229 KB
229 KB JPG
>>2532958
>We domesticated ourselves guys, just look at cats and dogs, it's the right side of history!
>>
File: 5819082.jpg (79 KB, 607x456)
79 KB
79 KB JPG
Pre industrialization: Cool hats

Post industrialization: Baseball caps and "hoodies"

Agricucks will actually try to defend this
>>
>>2532891
I recall some american pioneers captured by native americans wanted to stay with their captors because the lifestyle was way more awesome.
>>
>>2532985
Go live in a desert if you like it more. What's stopping you?
>>
File: Serf vs Wagecuck.jpg (85 KB, 735x559)
85 KB
85 KB JPG
Relevant
>>
>>2533028
>monopolize every single worthwhile piece of land and natural resource on the face of the earth
>"lol just go live in nature nothin stopping u :^)"
>>
>>2532891
lol

Fucking incel white people think we actually wanna go back to living like cavemen
>>
>>2533039
What's stopping you from picking berries or fishing like your tribal ancestors?
>>
File: 703serf.png (13 KB, 300x503)
13 KB
13 KB PNG
>is 1329
>serves lord
>sometimes lord lets me leave farm
>Holy shit
>goes to Bordeaux
>Goes to Brothel
>gets to watch people fuck
>accidentally returns one day late
>fuck me
>goes back to lord
>gets executed


>is 2017
>Boss is sometimes rude
>gets 2 free days a week
>oh no
>>
File: 084.png (298 KB, 600x512)
298 KB
298 KB PNG
>>2533039
But there's literary nothing stopping you living in the woods. Buying a house with several hectares in a small village cost basically nothing in large part of Europe. And people that still feels like living like traditional farmers still does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sX4oB7pbCM
The reason more people don't do it is because it sucks.
>>
>>2533040
You might not want to, but it's fun to think about

Like imagine being a berber pirate. Instead of working some 9-5 at a gas station, you woke up at noon and started drinking grog, then attacked some trading boat and took their gold. By comparison, the modern world is lame. There are cities which contain more people than all of the Hellenistic greek city states, but would you rather be an Athenian or some fucking chump living in Sao Paulo?
>>
>>2533087
>Like imagine being a berber pirate. Instead of working some 9-5 at a gas station, you woke up at noon and started drinking grog, then attacked some trading boat and took their gold
t. never sailed on a boat
>>
>>2533087
>Is Berber Pirate
>Wake up at 3 am seasick
>3 of your mates dies from disease
>lunchtime
>eats some delicious hardtack
>Raids ship
>is trading vessel
>time for money
>captain takes it all
>French navy shows up
>sinks ship
>well, it beats being a modern person
>>
>>2533125
>sailing a boat is sooooo fucking hard I'm going to live in a concrete box my entire life breathing car fumes
>>
>>2533136
You're the one describing it as an easy existance preferable to modern life. Funny thing is, you'd beg to return to modern civilization if you ever served on any premodern ship, let alone a pirate one.
>>
File: b21.jpg (96 KB, 778x658)
96 KB
96 KB JPG
Daily reminder that peasants used to have 2/3rds of the year off for religious and secular holidays, and were such an educated and leisured class that they often sued their landlords for primae noctis rights to their daughter
>>
>>2533026
>I recall some american pioneers captured by native americans wanted to stay with their captors because the lifestyle was way more awesome.

>Is the plot of dancing with wolves
>>
>>2533159
That would imply they only ever worked during the sowing time, and this is simply untrue. Farming is constant manual work over the whole year even today, and you can imagine how it was with more primitive tools.
>>
>>2533066
You have no clue how life was like in the 1300s, do you? Farmers (which was the majority of people) don't need to worry about "being late." they work whenever they feel like. Whether that's good for crops or not is another story entierly.
>>
>>2533161
As in a true historical event. Go dance with your wiener.
>>
>>2532891
Yeah that's why people in the Industrial Revolution moved frorural areas to cities and went to work in factories oh wait.

Seriously OP, unless you are baiting, you can't possibly think you can defend rural life like that.

It was a stagnant world, one where you lived exactly like your great-great-great Grandfather, down to the plot of Land and the clothing style.

It was a world where the food was as plentiful as the weather allowed it to be, with no escape if it went badly.

It was a time where dying was very Easy and where it was not possible to connected the dots regarding the causes of death.

But, most of all', they were human: vices and virtues hardly change.
>>
>>2533180
It wasn't about working whenever or whatever they liked. They HAD TO work at the right place at the right time if they didn't want to starve for a whole year.
>>
>>2533195
Life was simple but good. You simply demonize it to feel better about yourself.
>>
>>2533199
>. They HAD TO work at the right place at the right time if they didn't want to starve for a whole year.
Not quite. Crop yield would be the only thing effected. You could work a little and get just enough food to survive or work alot and get in abundance.

As for "executed for being late in the 1300s" you pulled that out of your ass.
>>
>>2533200
And you romanticize it for the exact same reason.
>>
>>2533199
Obviously they didn't need to work 1/3 of the year as those were feast days.
>>
File: b32.jpg (59 KB, 500x410)
59 KB
59 KB JPG
>>2533159
>Peasants
>Educated & Leisured.

Dude... Torquato Tasso ain't a good source.
>>
>>2533159
>primae noctes
meme created by """enlightenment""" fucbois
>>
File: 1426961886081.jpg (190 KB, 960x895)
190 KB
190 KB JPG
>>
>>2532891

Saved.
>>
>>2533136
you have never set foot on a ship, let alone a sailing vessel if you think its so simple
>>
>>2533059

Private property.
>>
>>2534291
If you lived deep enough inside a public forest way out west you could likely live out your dreams picking berries and being totally isolated.
>>
File: A.jpg (37 KB, 562x504)
37 KB
37 KB JPG
>>2534291
There actually are places where you can go and live out your dream.

It's so fucking annoying when you cunts post ON THE INTERNET about shit you obviously haven't even attempted to research.

You are a lazy, good-for-nothing faggot who talks big shit but can't take five fucking minutes to google something. Gee I wonder why? Is it because you DON'T actually want to live in the woods and pick berries? How many tabs do you have open right now you fucking faggot? Are any of them you looking up communes and figuring out whicg berries are safe?

Fuck no. Shut the fuck up and don't even bother responding. Just get off your computer for a while and reflect on what a retarded fucking cunt you've been.
>>
>>2534291
If you live in America and are a citizen, you are a partial owner of all national forests. Feel free to go there and eat frogs or whatever the fuck it is you are trying to do.
>>
>>2532891
>elegant ceder hats

audible kek

[sic] notwithstanding
>>
>>2533129

>on your way to a shit job
>ruminating on how your grandpa died from lung cancer from smoking cigarettes
>miss your sister who died from diabetes
>get t-boned by a drunk driver
>paralyzed for the rest of your life


THANK GOD FOR MODERNITY
>>
>>2535020
Cool straw man, faggot. If you want to talk actual mortality stats we can do that, though.
>>
>>2532891
Pre modern people:
Die in childbirth
>>
>be pre-modern peasant
>starve to death during lean times

>be modern peasant
>live off neetbox
>>
File: 1488755072519.jpg (49 KB, 550x535)
49 KB
49 KB JPG
>tfw no qt fuck socks taken as booty in last year's tribal conflict

hold me bros
>>
File: 1485390032782.jpg (98 KB, 1000x800)
98 KB
98 KB JPG
If we were in premodern times most of you would have been weeded out the gene pool a long time ago.
>>
no.

No.

NO.

NO NO NO NO NO NO

LIFE HAS ALWAYS BEEN SHITTY BEFORE THE INTERNET

YOU FUCKING ROMANTICIZING THE PAST BULLSHIT

EVERYONE WAS DISEASED AND WORKED TO THE BONE AND DIED EVERYDAY BEFORE THE INTERNET AND IPADS AND PARACETEMOL

THE FUTURE IS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER

DONT ROMANTICIZE THE PAST DONT U DARE SAY THAT LIFE WAS ACCEPTABLE BEFORE THE 1990s!!!
>>
>>2535067
sort of true. life was fucking boring as a kid where i lived. when i could play online games it became a lot less boring
>>
>>2533084
>"Lol just go live in the woods for free dude... by buying a small property worth 100k and paying land rates and property taxes for the rest of your life and not being able to venture outside of your block of land for fear Cletus will shoot you for stepping a millimeter onto his private property"

>"Nothing's stopping you, lol :^)"
>>
>>2535067
>straw manning this hard

You are arguing against an imaginary, exaggerated position that you invented with your foolish (and homosexual) post.
>>
>>2535062
we made it to modern times, ipso facto we would not have been.
>>
>>2535080
You again? I though I told you earlier to get the fuck out of here. How many of your open tabs are you even attempting to research communes and modern hunter gatherers you could join?

Are any of them you checking which national parks and forests will let you hunt and forage? Do you even know how to use a bow? Please log off, turn 360, and walk the fuck away from your computer.
>>
>>2532891
>Was agriculture a mistake?

I believe agriculture develops as a response to scarcity (created by overpopulation). It's not a mistake when you have to choose between it and starvation.
>>
>>2535089
No I have made dozens of threads like this one and the same response I always get is "Le romanticizing the le past ;^)". I think the reason is people are scared. They're scared of getting sweaty and dirty, using their muscles, being in nature around animals, insects and rough weather. Understandable considering I'm talking to teenagers who grew up inside on the internet and video games and never even went for a bushwalk, also their parents are obsessed with hygiene and don't like nature but prefer elite identical suburban homes with mexican gardners and the whitest neighbours ever.

The future is pretty sad and bleak.

>>2535113
>research communes and modern hunter gatherers
That's silly. You're a silly person.
>>
>>2535123
People started growing barley to make beer.
>>
File: 1488924833751.jpg (153 KB, 812x509)
153 KB
153 KB JPG
>entertainment back then
>lying in a pile of hay or some shit and being lazy faggot
>entertainment now
>144 fps 4k resolution video games that make your blood pump faster than a hummingbird on crack, anime, shitposting
yeah, nah, I'll stay right here
>>
>>2535129
You seem pretty convinced of yourself that agriculture was a mistake. If you aren't interested in entertaining ideas contrary to your belief and will instead post stupid greentext responses and warp every argument thrown at you, then this thread has no point a d should be pruned. Go preach somewhere else.
>>
>>2532891
>pre-modern people
>first three children die
>one eaten by wolf
>one comes out alive
>mother dies
>gets cholera
>dies
>get cut
>neighbor flings poo at you because he's bored
>infection
>dying
>get beheaded by enemy clan

what a great life
>>
>>2535194
>then this thread has no point a d should be pruned
Yeah you would love that you jewish progressive shill, worshiping the future and eliminating what true history was, watering down everything that gives modern man some type of spiritual outburst or hope until all is left is the sad, bleak state he is forced to live in now with its myriad of problems from health to communication to the most basic elements a human being needs.
>>
>>2535204
There is dignity in death, lifecuck
>>
Listening to flatlanders talk about things they don't know shit about is funnier than hell.

Raising your own food is a full-time group effort. Even with mechanization. OP is out of his basement dwelling goddam mind.
>>
>>2535044

>be modern "worker"
>pay half of your wage so that you can be educated about the "childfree life" while ((they)) give muslims and africans money for existing.
>>
>>2535204

>be modern worker
>work until your brain and heart stops functioning because rich people and immigrants want more money.
>>
>>2532891
That kinda still happens in some rural areas.
>>
>>2535210
>Yeah you would love that you jewish progressive shill, worshiping the future and eliminating what true history was, watering down everything that gives modern man some type of spiritual outburst or hope until all is left is the sad, bleak state he is forced to live in now with its myriad of problems from health to communication to the most basic elements a human being needs.

Are you insane or are you yrolling? 99% of what you said is exactly what we walked away FROM.

>>2535067
You know that your cause is lost when, in write out a strawman, out of ten lines there is exactly one major exxageration and a milder one.

>>2535129
And have you ever asked yourself why people chose to stop living in small rural villages and went living in big cities? Like, if you want to have an idea of what you are talking about, go look at New Guinea or the Seychelles, and tell me if it looks pleasant to you.

Seriously, life in the fields was not a camping trip, not by any stretch of imagination.
>>
>>2532891
>Lots of holidays, real holidays where the entire community would get together in song, dance, and feasting, not this "take one day off work and get drunk by yourself" bullshit
>real holidays where the entire community would get together
>the entire community would get together
>the entire community
>community

YOU BE TALKING THAT COMMUNIST SHIT BOY

DON'T YOU KNOW YOUR CAPITALIST OVERLORDS DON'T WANT YOU TALKING TO YOUR FUCKING NEIGHBORS?

NOW GET BACK INSIDE YOUR FUCKING HOUSE AND SHIT POST ON 4CHAN ALL BY YOURSELF
>>
>>2535211
The problem in pre-modern times wasn't dying when you were old. There's nothing dignified about dying at age 17 trying to give birth to a baby that dies a couple days later.
>>
>>2535020
>be serf
>out in the fields working in the hot august sun with your sickle
>back aches as fuck from being half-bent all the time
>someone screams at you just as you are making a motion to cut another bunch of wheat
>you cut yourself in your hand almost to the bone
>ohshit.folktale
>hand is bleeding, the sickle is dirty
>you rush to the nearest inn, where the owner, Schlomo Shekelstein explains to you that there are no hard liquors available
>You go home and just as you can feel the fever starting to rise
>>
>>2535152
isn't it sad that the most exciting thing for you is sitting in a chair staring at a monitor?
>>
File: 26VOGEL1-master1050-v2.jpg (312 KB, 1050x839)
312 KB
312 KB JPG
>>2535152
>pure experience of life as it is
Boring lol

>staring at a screen for literally hours on end
better than crack my man!

Is there anything more repulsive than a domesticated man?
>>
>>2533205
so then famines were simply the years that everyone got lazy
>>
>>2533087
>be pirate
>get scurvy
>fall off the sails
>get shot
>die
>>
>>2535152
do people actually get a rush from games? I played a shit load in my life and barely got any emotion out of it
>>
>>2532891
I read this in the morning and I have been thinking about this a lot. The two sides have good arguments. I've never lived in a pre-civ community to compare, but the level of alienation in modern society is brutal. Look at all the people coming and going, looking down at their phones. Are they even people at all? If they were replaced by robot clones who would even notice? I don't know man, maybe we weren't meant to live like this. So my vote goes to OP.
>>
>>2538310
>>
>>2532891
>"take one day off work and get drunk by yourself" bullshit
Goto a pub you miserable fuck, ask your friends if they're down to go with you.

>Maybe two weeks of holiday time per year, which you celebrate alone
Your inability to get your fuck on and marry isn't anyone elses fault.

>Social events such as clubs and bars are strictly stratified by class, antisocial in nature, and generally revolve around the commodification of sex
Then use something like the internet, you can't fuck through a screen.
>Clothing is dark colored and utilitarian, patterns/flourishes are shunned or garish, hats are ugly cotton sacks and rarely worn
Entirely subjective, you can get a hold of some really stupid shit to wear, and if you want to you can make your own wacky stuff to wear, nobodies going to murder you over something that petty.
>Food is limited to corn products and factory meat, anything that's not genetically modified and doesn't come from a can generally costs an arm and a leg
If you have internet, soil and seeds you're basically halfway to growing your own food.
>A new potentially deadly drug gets invented every week and can be bought by anyone with an internet connection. Tobacco and liquor everywhere, addiction is common
Of which you are under no obligation to take (And the drug verification process is actually quite vigorous, and medicine has clearly had a positive impact on humanity)
>Pollutants which leak from every ditch and pipe into a brown murky sea
Which can be protested by you performing your civiv duty as a member of a lberal democracy and voting for the change you want to see.
>Lie in bed till three in the morning while the cars zip by outside your cramped apartment
That's not a point against modernity, that's a diary entry.
>When you die every scrape of your existence will be scrubbed from your home so it can be sold to highest bidder
Or left to your loving family.

Stop feeling so sorry for yourself and try.
>>
>>2534291
America has national parks, there have been people who slipped away from conventional living for 20 years (although did end up stealing food and shit from summer camps)
if you want to go, go.
>>
>>2537159
No? A significant ammount of human knowledge is stored on a medium i can use nearly anywhere, why the fuck wouldn't i be using it?
>>
>>2538310
>people look at magical tablet containing more content than any human being could ever process, a library grander than any before it
>this is bad because they aren't talking
Jesus fucking christ, also try not being such a hipocritcal fuckwit when you're using a computer to condemn people using pocket computers.
>>
>The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

When will the REAL 14 words get the credit and attention they deserve?
>>
>>2533037
Me on the right.
>>
File: 1477382213250.png (219 KB, 266x285)
219 KB
219 KB PNG
>>2532958
>We progressed. We conquered nature.
look at this liberal
>>
>>2536024
yeah hedonists whine easily about dying and they cling to their concept of dignity
>>
>>2533208
its also ironic how he chose a culture known for extreme social stratification, slavery and defined property rights to represent his point and they didnt even have agriculture. i love certain ironies
>>
File: IMG_20170321_085603.jpg (154 KB, 460x684)
154 KB
154 KB JPG
>>
>>2540833
>known for extreme social stratification, slavery and defined property rights
I Know nothing about the 1300s, the post.
>>
>>2532891

urban living and industrialization was a mistake

>be rural peasant
>survive infancy, probably live until 75
>work fields for half the day
>eat healthy food
>own my own home
>marry hot farmer's daughter at 15, fuck every night, have 4 sons to help me labor
>oh shit it's a saint's feast day, time to party
>oh shit it's market, time to sell my shit and party
>oh shit, another festival/saint's day/solstice, brb getting shitfaced on ale


fuck me I'd love to be a 900-1300 AD peasant
>>
>>2533066

>Lord even knowing that a serf had left the land
>>
File: KSOntXS.jpg (165 KB, 778x658)
165 KB
165 KB JPG
>>2533066
>>
>>2541082
The man in OP's pic is a member of the Kwakwaka'wakw people, who, like all tribes in the Pacific Northwest, practiced slavery, had an intense social stratification (Wearing earrings while not being hereditary nobility was punishable by death), did not have agriculture, and engaged in slavery.
>>
>>2536186

>tool you use literally daily
>probably one of the more expensive things they own
>getting rusty or dirty

also how the fuck you gonna cut your hand with a one-handed tool though
>>
3rd time that EXACT 'nobleman swerve' picture has been posted in this thread
hmm...
>>
>>2533205
>You could work a little and get just enough food to survive or work alot and get in abundance.
Thank god there wasn´t any church or landlords to take away that abundance of food
>>
>>2540833
>>2541204
Thats the point you fucking brainlet. A life of waging war, having slaves do the hard work for you, and a rigid place in a greater society is perhaps a harder and more dangerous life, but also more noble and daring.

While you modern men are all slaves to agriculture.
>>
>>2532891
>Maybe two weeks of holiday time per year, which you celebrate alone
>Food is limited to corn products and factory meat, anything that's not genetically modified and doesn't come from a can generally costs an arm and a leg

Sorry, we aren't all Amerifats. Some people actually live in 1st world countries.
>>
>>2541291
The tithe is 10%, mate.
>>
>>2535129
As someone who's grown up as a rancher/ hay farmer, using the internet a lot...
Its hard work, and whenever one of my friends from the city comes out, they seem so fragile. This is with tractors and electricity too.

Back in the day, shit was hard. Especially preparing for winter.
The tibetans do it lime its nothing, but thats from preserving culture that works, and not letting your kids be pussies who think they don't need to work.

On the other side, modern science has discovered dirt is good for you, particular strains of bacteria help curb depression, lessen allergy rates, and build insane immune systems.

We shouldn't be letting kids, or adults for that matter, hide in their boxes. It makes for weak spirits, and dumb people.

Ive spent a lot of time with young people who choose to work on farms. (WOOFers) and they're some of the smartest, hardest working young adults I know. That is not to say that academia doesn't breed intelligent folk, but quite often, these people don't fair well in life when anything unexpected happens
>>
>>2532891
what you are describing is early agricultural society.
>>
>>2532891
>mfw people who grew up enjoying the benefits of an industrialized society genuinely think being a subsistence farmer would be better
>>
>>2532891
>typing this from a computer
>>
>>2532958

No you didn't, you couldn't even conquer your women.
>>
>>2542942
hunter-gatherer > post-industrial society > pre-industrial subsistence agriculture
>>
>>2542942
>Subsistence farming
>(((((farming)))))

Absolutely disgusting
>>
Can anyone actually refute the OP aside from bringing up "muh medicine muh gadgets muh space program"?




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.