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Not even joking, what did he mean by this?

https://youtu.be/NyeTaXv6o4Y
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>>3664466
the loser is disliked by God. The winner is liked by God. Hence, it was just to invade and kill them.
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>Caesar grows up in NCR
>hates its inefficiencies and wants to fix it
>creates the Legion, which is the complete opposite of NCR
>Legion eventually conquers NCR
>Caesar preserves some of NCR's culture and infrastructure but substitutes the parts he doesn't like with elements of the Legion
>two cultures mesh, NCR is now stabilized ruled by Caesar, and the Legion is the military caste of an empire rather than a wandering horde
>if the empire ever weakens, another culture can come along and fix it, thus continuing the cycle
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>>3664483
Isn't it more so that the Legion is a juxtaposition to the NCR that fixes it flaws, even in it's brutality?
The "inevitable" conquering and assimilation will answer it's problems and provide the necessary changes towards a secure and just American Southwest.
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>>3664466

Fallout Legion looks more like Joseph Cony's Lord's Resistance Army. He has the military state, but lacks the Republic, the literature, the culture, the architecture.
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>>3664514
>lacks the Republic, the literature, the culture, the architecture
Which would seem to be what he wants out of this conquest of the NCR.
There Legion was a collection is 86 assimilated tribes, the sort you would find in Zion. There was never a hope to make these people cultured in a generation, but they could be respectively assimilated or enslaved. They were genuine savages.
The NCR was born of vault dwellers, they brought with them that culture, literature, and society, but arguably more in it's bad ways than good. Their Old World thinking and lifestyle was responsible for their inefficiency and dissolutness, just as the Legion's apocalyptic formation was responsible for it's brutality and unforgiving efficiency.
Caesar hopes to mend the two.
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>>3664466
A complete lack of understanding about how the Roman Empire prospered.
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>>3664550
Explain yourself profligate
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>>3664544

The Romans were once simple farmers until they founded Rome. You can turn tribals into citizens.
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>>3664629
In a generation though? Rome's rise was gradual, and Caesar believes the American Southwest doesn't have that sort of time. Caesar's Legion is the best way to fix the NCR or else the NCR was simply grow into the corrupt, bureaucratic, ineffective mess that had his father killed by raiders INSIDE NCR lands because of it.
He hopes to use Hegelian Dialectics to this end.
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>>3664544
>The NCR was born of vault dwellers
Only Shady Sands and Vault City. The rest were generally founded before the Vaults even opened.
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>>3664512
its flaws are its impiety. Which lead to the nuking of the divide. Which is what caused -all- of its failures in the mojave.
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>>3664629
the city of rome was founded by the descendants of the most legendary warriors in history.
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>>3664514
Except the people the Legion conquers aren't immediately enslaved? He only enslaves tribals and raiders, legion controlled lands still have electricity and access to basic technology.

He isn't anti-intellectualism ,he is anti-modernity in all of it's forms
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>>3664563
Not sure what this anon was going to say, but The Legion is an absolute dictatorship. Rome didnt start out as an absolute dictatorship and when a dictator rose to power he was expected to do his duty and return the power to the senate afterwards. The Legion has no bodypolitic and nothing to keep the "emperor" in check if he were to go mad or become incompetant, something that the NCR has. The very aspect Caesar hates about the NCR was the strength that Rome had. After the Senate lost most of its power it was only a matter of time before a string of bad emperors would lead to its decline.
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>>3665728
socrates proved that kingdoms formed under the proper conditions, like Rome, are proven to be superior to the aristocracy of the senate. Its decline was because of christianity, which the humanist scum still refuse to beileve, to clutch their idols in reverance of a dead god, who spoke of being weak and humanist like the europeans who lost their empires. Whereas the USA, kept its colonies and offered no apologies for broken treaties and (almost, in some ways completely by ontological reasons) no socialist humanism.
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>>3665745
>Its decline was because of christianity, which the humanist scum still refuse to beileve, to clutch their idols in reverance of a dead god, who spoke of being weak and humanist like the europeans who lost their empires.

yeah ok, i'm sure the constant stream of invasions, civil war, economic crisis and plagues didn't make it so people were desperate for new gods they could pray to in the first place.
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>>3665745
I wouldnt listen to Socrates when it comes to government. He and Plato had some very strange ideas when it came to what makes a good "kingdom". One of them being the banishment of poets and intellectuals. The Philosopher King is the best form of government, but the problem is it never lasts. Athens is a good example of this. Had many tyrants. Rome would have been much better off and stronger if it had given the plebs more self-representation rather than hordeing all the power. Caesar(the historical) was the symptom of the lower classes being rebuked so many times and their only outlet becoming a populist coup de tat. Caesar(in game) on the other hand is an autocratic tyrant that wants to seize the NCR and force it to become more centralized and absolutist like the Legion, which is actually the opposite of what the historical Caesar wanted to do. Caesar thinks the NCR's problem is too much democracy, when in fact its problem is the nepotism of its senatorial class.
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>>3665768
none of that got better under christianity, and those people were better when they weren't chrisitan.
>>3665801
>i wouldn't litsen
then don't speak, you uneducated fool

>nepotism
choosing someone related to you, like the NCR did with tandi's kids. Isn't nepotism, its the divine right of kings theory of forming a government.
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>>3665834
>none of that got better under christianity

yes, it's religions' job to actually solve government and military problems

>and those people were better when they weren't chrisitan.

if only they knew back then.
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>>3664466

He's a neo/proto-fascist that amalgamated a bunch of ideas into an ideological mess. He incorrectly assumes that because of the nuking, the dialectic (and thus all of society) has been reset to the classical age. That's not how the dialectic works at all. It's always advancing, it's not a video you can skip around to different parts as you please.
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>>3665846
hes not a fascist. The BoS and Enclave are facist, but his government is classical imperialism
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>>3665841
what else are the priests for? to make sure the next world has a seat for that person? how pathetic.
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>>3665874
>what else are the priests for?

for paganism? to appease gods by doing autistically elaborate rituals to ensure the supernatural forces that govern nature and the universe give their favor or at least fuck off and leave mortals alone.

i think you can imagine why people go tired of trying to appease them in specially shitty times.
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>>3665894
they should've tried harder to appease the right one then. unlike the pagan christians who got to live like slaves, wherever they went. Wehther they be captured by barabarys, or be a levy from a lord, they were slaves. Because they did not honor 'the gods'.
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>>3665868
This. Fascism cannot function without a capitalist market economy, which the Legion lacks. The Legion is still very much pre-capitalist.
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>>3665834
>then don't speak, you uneducated fool
listening to a 2000 year old philosopher to base what is a good government on.

t.literal brainlet
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>>3665958
>an idea is old therefore it's wrong
You're just as retarded as the people who reject things just because they're new
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>>3665958
>dude its 2007 i mean come on
brits need to get out
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>>3665960
no an idea is old and retarded and been proven wrong many times therefore its wrong
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>post yfw Caesar would've taken Rome for his legion
is caesars legion turks?
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>>3665560
And those from Shady Sands started the NCR
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>>3665662
Not even that, most tribals are just integrated, look at the Khans post-Legion victory at Hoover Dam.
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>>3665801
Caesar thinks that their faux democracy is what has caused their corruption, greed, inefficiency, and overall dissolution which isn't necessarily wrong. In Legion lands banditry is about nonexistent and trade is secure. Edward Sallow (Caesar) had his father murdered in NCR lands precisely because the NCR is so ineffective.
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NV's Caesar had the most dudebro, History Channel, pop history bullshit understanding of Rome and he has absolutely no idea why the empire was the way it was or why his roving band of mouth breathing cromagnons is closer to the Germanic tribes seeking civilization under Rome but ultimately destroying it from within.

He wants an empire because he ultimately wants to be powerful over as many people as possible, he won't civilize his legion by cutting it lose and having it merge with the NCR's, he will just let the former degenerate and terrorize the later. Sooner than later it will crumble because it's based off his brutal leadership and nothing else in the legionaries themselves.

Rome worked despite it's gigantic size and complexity because it was based on civilization, not the intellectualism of an elite or the vision of it's leaders, it was because everyone down to the lowest pleb was civilized. They worked, they made business, they solved disputes, they undestood and participated in politics and religion. Even with an absolute dictator on top, Romans determined their day to day lives and the magnificent structure of power rested atop that complex social fabric. They were people who built the system that ruled them and not the other way around. That's what civilization meant.
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>>3665914
Christians were slaves to no one, because they recognised no one, and they knew no law but their own. They refused to recognise it as their own law, however, thus they stumbled at the last hurdle.

Certainly superior to pagans, nonetheless. Note this applies only to early and radical Christians.
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>>3666148
and hes probably right to a degree. To me the NCR sounds like a once great democracy in decline, the beneficiary of too many good strokes of fortune and a victim of its own success. Its uncapable of expanding further even though it wants to(as evident by every person you talk to from the ncr in game who seems to think their forces are far too overstretched) and should rather focus on keeping what it has and strengthening itself from within. It sounds like it has a really apathetic lower class and an almost non-existant middle class if they are willing to let some bitch rule them for half a century just because her mother was. Doesnt sound like much of a democracy.
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>>3665647
>the city of rome was founded by the descendants of the most legendary warriors in history.

According to myth written years later. In reality they had humble origins.
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>>3666229
>NV's Caesar had the most dudebro, History Channel, pop history bullshit understanding of Rome

Which, if you think abou tit, would be accurate to what some dude post apocalype would probably make.
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>>3665728
>t. Yang Wen-Li
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>>3664563
A society doesn't just need a culture, it needs a way to develop that culture and adapt it to changing circumstances. The Legion is a militarist dictatorship centered around one person with a very shaky foundation whose culture is Rome LARPing without even understanding what Rome was.
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>>3664550
this. most of the expansion was under the republic. nv caesar is just a spooked moron.
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>>3667194
If you think about it Caesar is no different than the We Wuz claiming that this or that culture is theirs. Usually starts with having a childs view of what the desired culture actually entails.
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>>3664466
Childhood is liking the Legion
Teenage is realizing NCR is better
Adulthood is realizing Mr. House is best for the Mojave wasteland
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>>3667237
Well you are chip outta luck baby! Independence is the right way to go.
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>>3667237
mah nigga
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AVE
V
E
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>>3667241
yes man best man
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>>3667176
>mfw
but I doubt the Fallout writers are that smart
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>>3667285
>>3667176
they ran out of time and had to cut the full Legion arc
they had planned to fill out the area east of the river too
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Legion is the only faction actively mass producing meds, afaik everyone else just scavenges for stimpaks. They'll have lots of healing powder when the old world meds start to run out.
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>When the only decent thread on /his/ is about New Vegas
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>>3666229
Anyone who says the word dudebro is most likely a nu male. Please go back 2 reddit.
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>>3667289
This man is a fucking hero betrayed by Bethesda and their scummy behavior
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>>3666229
Rome began as a series of brutal military dictatorships and as a kingdom, the Legion has the benefit of Caesar's knowledge of the endgame.

The Romans made great use of the institution of slavery, do you still call them civilized? It seems as if you must, somehow.
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What are Hegelian Dialectics?
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>>3667536

>"fuck you"
>"no fuck you"
>"fuck both of us"
>*sweet love is made and both become stronger for it*
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>>3667324
> Fail to execute overly ambitious plans given the tight schedule
> Bethesda's betrayal
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>>3667557
Get out damn anti-artistic profligate.
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>>3667557

>Bethesda gives overly tight schedule, refuses to shift it after things take longer than expected

>Obsidian's fault
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>>3667237
>Childhood is liking the Legion
>Teenage is realizing NCR is better
NCR is the Reddit option because THEY HAVE SLAVES THEY'RE BASICALLY NAZIS why the Legion actually takes some cold understanding of the wasteland in order to be understood.
Same with Skyrim because the Stormcloaks are RACISTS OH MY GOD.
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>>3666229
I don't think Edward Sallow was actually going for a exact Rome 2.0
He wanted something "foreign and alien" that was also strong and he could basically take the style and aesthetic from. In dialogue, he is well aware he ISN'T Rome, and wants to change that. It's not that he knows nothing of Rome, but that he can't be Rome with the resources he has.
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>>3668304
> Overly tight schedule
No, it was a regular schedule. Obsidian had agreed to create and produce a game out in a certain time, and instead of spending the time efficiently, they spent their time limit in a manner them unable to finish the project in a way they wanted to. They aimed too high, and did not understand their resources correctly. A mistake like that could be understandable for a first timer, but for studio that had large amounts of expertise in the same things with FO2, KoToR 2 and NWN2, perhaps blaming the publishers instead of the incompetence of the Obsidian is a bit thick the fourth time in a row.
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>>3666229
>he won't civilize his legion by cutting it lose and having it merge with the NCR's, he will just let the former degenerate and terrorize the later. Sooner than later it will crumble because it's based off his brutal leadership and nothing else in the legionaries themselves.
And the problem is that because of constraints we never got to see Legion-ruled lands east of the Colorado to see if this is valid.
We have been told that lands managed there are actually very secure and free of banditry and welcoming to trade.

I think that if the Legion did take California, infighting would take place but the real test would be to see if the Legion's "soul" would survive without Caesar. Caesar said that he wanted the tribes loyal to something greater than themselves so the Legion, not just Caesar, is important to them but Caesar with his brain tumor wasn't setting up an heir. The only question is who will he make heir if he does?
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>>3668425
>but for studio that had large amounts of expertise in the same things with FO2, KoToR 2 and NWN2
all games which had that exact problem you mentioned: they were too ambitious for what their resources permitted.
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>>3665917
Fuck off Bernie
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>>3668493
fuck off, Bannon, he's right. Fascism is a reflection of market based economies and Rome was a slave based economy
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>>3667342
>Rome began as a series of brutal military dictatorships and as a kingdom

It began as a union of the latin tribes near the Tiber under control of Etruscan kings, you need to be willing to believe some very outlandish myths about it's creation if you want to frame it as a brutal culture from the get go.

>The Romans made great use of the institution of slavery, do you still call them civilized? It seems as if you must, somehow.

You're applying modern morality to ancient realities and needs, and even then, Roman slavery was very much a civilized affair compared to slavery in the entire world around them.
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>>3668390
>Same with Skyrim because the Stormcloaks are RACISTS OH MY GOD.

Stormcloaks are objectively the wrong choice though, not only is Ulfric an abject moron who blundered his way through the great war, getting captured almost the whole duration of it, he then slaughtered the reachmen who were actual skyrim natives because they wanted to be independent and preventing them from actually worshipping Talos, then he assassinated the rightful king and started a war that does nothing but cost human lives while the Thalmor benefits from everything, knowing that an independent Skyrim is 100% fucked.

Stormcloaks are literally a false flag.
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>>3667171
every empire ever built did not have humble origins. Italians just want to claim the romans were italian tribal savages
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>>3668425
>A mistake like that could be understandable for a first timer
Reminder that Duke Nuke'em Forever, made by a veteran studio, came out 14 years late, and only after it was passed to another veteran studio that copy-pasta'd the media into a Crysis Unreal prototype they had laying around.

...and Half-Life2 Ep 3, which will be out sometime after the heat death of the universe.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
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>>3669026
reachmen are not even human.
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>>3669026
bruh you're not ascended enough

well to start with the Nords don't give a fuck about "muh natives". They deadass genocided the Snow Elves, you think they care about a bunch of le 56% face Daedra-worshipping Bretons? They don't.

But that's not the important part. The races of Tamriel will always be pawns in a great theological war over the heavens. Folks play Elder Scrolls but don't understand jus how non-secular their world is. Religion there isn't just stories, it's actual reality. The Elven-Man conflict is a battle between the gods, namely between Shor/Lorkhan and his avatars (Ysmir) and the "Elven gods" headed by Akatosh.
To stop worshipping Talos, Ysmir, the mantled Shor, is the ultimate defeat to mankind because as the gods stop being worshiped they lose power. The Elves are playing the long game because they live long lives. These are people who's grandfathers learned of the Snow Elf genocide, they are planning the long game, the theological game, while Legion supporters are too preoccupied with MUH EMPIRE and play right into Aldmeri Dominion hands.
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>>3668969
>You're applying modern morality to ancient realities and needs, and even then, Roman slavery was very much a civilized affair compared to slavery in the entire world around them.
So would it be fair to see that being nuked back to the stone age makes Legion slavery more permissible?
Remember they don't have the privilege of being Vault Dwellers. They are the product of the tribal lands from Denver CO to Flagstaff AZ.
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>>3666229
>that’s what Cambridge fags really believe
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>>3669121
>So would it be fair to see that being nuked back to the stone age makes Legion slavery more permissible?

I don't know, we can't judge just how bad things are in the Fallout universe from games alone, but slavery and brutality are still a reality in the modern world, why would you expect them to show higher morality?

Rome itself though, had such a different concept of slavery it's hard to categorically call it cruel or kind, there were all kinds.
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What if Caesar left instructions for Legate Lanius to form something that would be similiar to the Senate after his death? this seems very far-fetched since IIRC the whole Legion basically relied on Caesar's strong iron fist to function.
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>>3669253

There was no social structure other than the brutal military hierarchy created by Caesar. The idea of democracy would cause Lanius and every other legionary to vomit.
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>>3669269
Hm, you have a good point, I'm not well read on the Legion's history that much, they would not even be in support of a "military senate" with Generals making decisions altogether?
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>>3669113
>well to start with the Nords don't give a fuck about "muh natives". They deadass genocided the Snow Elves, you think they care about a bunch of le 56% face Daedra-worshipping Bretons? They don't.

every single town in Skyrim is crawling with vampires and daedra-dealing shitsticks, they are literally no better than the Forsworn ooga boogas, but Nords actually try to take some kind of moral superiority. Too bad for them the empire was founded by a Nord and is stronger in their might makes right world view

>To stop worshipping Talos, Ysmir, the mantled Shor, is the ultimate defeat to mankind because as the gods stop being worshiped they lose power. The Elves are playing the long game because they live long lives. These are people who's grandfathers learned of the Snow Elf genocide, they are planning the long game, the theological game, while Legion supporters are too preoccupied with MUH EMPIRE and play right into Aldmeri Dominion hands.

Talos worship was literally untouched in Skyrim, the empire turned a blind eye and just ticked boxes until Ulfric attacked Markath and made a big deal out of cracking down on it, the entire reason the Thalmor got presence in Skyrim is because the empire couldn't hide that they were breaking the white-gold concordat any longer due to his stupid chimp out.

If the empire takes full control of Skyrim again they can convince the Thalmor to back off and go back to being lenient and focus their effort on feeding the proxy wars in Hammerfell, if the Stormcloaks do, the AD has a fleet ready to invade and take it all for themselves, and with the critically low manpower and bad infrastructure, it would be a matter of days.
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>>3669231
>I don't know, we can't judge just how bad things are in the Fallout universe
Fiends rape and their victims and leave them with horrific burn scars all over, smash people's brains in with golf clubs, and will suspend their victims from chains on hooks
Cannibalism is semi-common
Children's skeletal corpses are found where Vipers make their rounds.
Powder Gangers are a rather powerful faction all considered, and regularly terrorize towns.

Legion is literally a godsend in tribal lands, they nail bandits to crosses as a warning their friends, and leave an area secure so that trade can take place.
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>>3669291
>every single town in Skyrim is crawling with vampires and daedra-dealing shitsticks, they are literally no better than the Forsworn ooga boogas, but Nords actually try to take some kind of moral superiority. Too bad for them the empire was founded by a Nord and is stronger in their might makes right world view
some occasional cultist =/= literally your entire society
you're being disingenuous on purpose, Talos and the big three goddess' are still the big shit in Skyrim.

>Talos worship was literally untouched in Skyrim,
proofs? Talos worship was still outlawed, the Empire DID try and abide by the WGC. This whole "actually they didn't lol" sounds like a dodge tactic that isn't supported.
>the empire turned a blind eye and just ticked boxes until Ulfric attacked Markath
yup, just like the Empire-backed Jarl there asked him to
>and made a big deal out of cracking down on it, the entire reason the Thalmor got presence in Skyrim is because the empire couldn't hide that they were breaking the white-gold concordat any longer due to his stupid chimp out.
The AD wanted the WGC enforced for the theological reasons i mentioned. You think they weren't already going to make sure that the most Talos-fanboy provinces wasn't worshiping Talos?

>If the empire takes full control of Skyrim again they can convince the Thalmor to back off and go back to being lenient and focus their effort on feeding the proxy wars in Hammerfell, if the Stormcloaks do, the AD has a fleet ready to invade and take it all for themselves, and with the critically low manpower and bad infrastructure, it would be a matter of days.
Except that Hammerfell was in a civil war, shared a border, and was overall in a far worse position than Skyim and beat the AD themselves. The AD would have a shit time getting through to the Sea of Ghosts, and the Nords would be the Mujihadeen in the mountains fucking up the AD's already strained efforts to get their army that far.
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Legion is basically what would happen if a smart LARP'er took and unified a bunch of savage africans (liberia type shit) and gave them roman aesthetics. In some sense, Caesar would be great... if the bombs had just dropped. Maybe something along the lines of 3. You would need someone brutal but disciplined and determined, in order to pick up the pieces of society.

Caesar is not good in a society like New Vegas, that has already progressed pretty steadily since the establishment of NCR. He would be a step backwards, both intellectually and culturally. Caesar is only ruling as a defacto warlord, where he tries to act like Augustus, but forgets Augustus used the previous tools of the Republic to keep himself in power with a sense of comfort. Once he dies, you have Lanius, who is a Caracalla kind of character who is hell bent on warfare, and that's about it. The tribes follow Caesar because he is power, not for some grand ideal or a dream. Now if Joshua Graham was in Legion still, I'd be more optimistic. There is no continuation of power, however. There is only the figure of Caesar.

tl:dr, Caesar is a shit choice in the time of New Vegas. This is coming from a genuine Romaboo who thinks non-hereditary monarchy would work best.
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>>3669329
CONT
and still, this doesn't address the theological endgame of it all, you can't Talos/Shor's divine intervention while worshiping in secret. Shor gave the Nords Sovengarde so that if they die, they may still have paradise. Ysmir is Talos' divine intervention, anytime Ysmir has come, (Pilenial Whitestake, Wulfharth, etc.) the Elves EAT SHIT. That is what you, the player, are. Dragonborn; Ysmir. You are supposed to be the avatar of the Nordic god Shor, sent to Tamriel to kick in Elven teeth.
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>>3669329
>proofs? Talos worship was still outlawed, the Empire DID try and abide by the WGC. This whole "actually they didn't lol" sounds like a dodge tactic that isn't supported.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Bear_of_Markarth

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Alvor

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Igmund

sourced off the article on Ulfric himself

>>3669329
>yup, just like the Empire-backed Jarl there asked him to

his militia volunteered

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ulfric_Stormcloak#The_Markarth_Incident

He had no stake, he just jumped in to get some credit and slaughter locals, and then he himself stopped the worship of Talos. He's a snake.

>The AD wanted the WGC enforced for the theological reasons i mentioned. You think they weren't already going to make sure that the most Talos-fanboy provinces wasn't worshiping Talos?


they WEREN'T making sure, the war was costly for both sides and while the empire got the shorter end of the stick, it was recovering way faster than the low fertility Altmer.

>Except that Hammerfell was in a civil war, shared a border, and was overall in a far worse position than Skyim and beat the AD themselves. The AD would have a shit time getting through to the Sea of Ghosts, and the Nords would be the Mujihadeen in the mountains fucking up the AD's already strained efforts to get their army that far.


http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Great_War_(book)

the war in Hammerfell was fought by legionaries, as a proxy war of the empire.
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>>3669352
I would suspect that the reason Thalmor Justiciars weren't in Skyrim right at the get go was because the AD was recovering from the Great War themselves. After the Markarth Incident it was simply moved to the front but the plan was already in motion. The AD could not allow Talos worship because it was vital to their endgame.

Ulfric's Militia volunteered because the local Jarl asked. He did so because of his Nordic pride, they're stubborn, if noble, people.

Nords made up a large amount of the Empire's Legions. The Shield Wall at the battle during the White Gold Tower was Nordic. Nords are vital to the empire, they are almost as much the Empire as Cyrodil itself.

But all this is for naught as i explained here: >>3669337.
Whatever the events preceding this, you are literally Ysmir, the divine intervention, sent to be mankind's uppercut. Your job is kick the elves in the nuts as direct as possible, not to keep the empire around. You are Shor.
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>>3664466
What he is saying basically sums up to
>NCR is corrupt and allows / encourages corruption to spread within it

>Legion was his blank slate that would be savage enough to be adopted effectively into the lawless wasteland population (primitive enough that the idiot locals could integrate better)
>Rule of might would ensure that even the biggest idiot in the desert knew if he fucked with the legions order he would be swiftly disposed of
>Instilling mentality of disposable citizen soldiers would ensure that they would remain savages because they never know which day is their last (as long as there would be war and they were winning it there would be no time / reason for them to doubt the power of Legion)
Basically he took the savagery of Rome and the military mentality and dumb'd it down to the wastelanders level, quantity over quality tactic that would eventually need to be revolutionized after they ran out of immediate opponents
His justification was that NCR had become a shell of it's true ideals, bureaucracy and corrupt circles allowed it to become a breeding ground for corrupt officials / officers, he believed NCR was on it's dying legs and wanted to overthrow it

Imo the only good choice is to rule the wasteland yourself because the House can have motives of his own for the future of the people, but if id have to choose between NCR, Legion and House i would choose House due to the incompetence of the competition
>>
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>>3669384

>Nords made up a large amount of the Empire's Legions. The Shield Wall at the battle during the White Gold Tower was Nordic. Nords are vital to the empire, they are almost as much the Empire as Cyrodil itself

alas, a big chunk of Skyrim sides with the empire for that very reason. The empire isn't just an empire but the "Reman" empire and the biggest, most solid legacy of Dragonborns.

>But all this is for naught as i explained here
>Whatever the events preceding this, you are literally Ysmir, the divine intervention, sent to be mankind's uppercut. Your job is kick the elves in the nuts as direct as possible, not to keep the empire around. You are Shor.


The dragonborn has nothing to do with that though, his prophecy is to fist-fuck Alduin back into submission first and foremost. He isn't destined to even stop the war.

that'd make sense if the Dragonborn wasn't obviously going to vanish and fuck off after the events of Skyrim. Skyrim isn't going to put up a fight, the never birthed the kind of warriors that could effectively fight the AD on a guerrilla war, that's not their culture, and they would be defenseless against the world-breaking wizardry of the Aldmeri's best, specially with the sorry state of the college. Unless they have a walking god fighting for them, and this is TES where Nerevarine did absolutely nothing to stop the red year, so good luck.
>>
>>3669512
[spoiler]Alduin is Akatosh[/spoiler]
[spoiler]This fits exactly the Dragonborn being Ysmir, an Avatar of Shor[/spoiler]
[spoiler]This is round whatever of the Elven-Man god wars and by no mistake is it occurring during the conclusion of the Great War a coincidence[/spoiler]
>>
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>>3669333
>Maybe something along the lines of 3.
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>>3664514
This is partly his motivation for wanting to conquer New Vegas. He intends to use it as his New Rome.
>>
>>3669292
In Cass’ dialogue they are also revealed to be excellent at protecting slave caravans through the most dangerous cities in Arizona and a bit of Utah.
>>
>>3670399
Not just slave caravans, anything with a Legion mark is dead safe she says
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>>3667237
>Housefags
Yeah I like the dam running on one generator too
>>
>>3669637
>>3669512
>>3669384
>>3669352
>>
>>3668432
Caesar's cult of personality is the only leg propping the Legion up. Even if someone who has 90% of the rhetoric and knowledge from the first Caesar, the generalship has seniority, and would use his death to assert their control. The problem with that is the Legates are fucking brainlet mongoloids and religious zealots that treat the Legion like The Golden Horde instead of the empire Caesar wanted, and because they're such monkey-brained morons, they have no idea how badly that will turn out.
>>
>>3672990
well Legate Lanius seems like a Khan more than a Caesar, what of Caesar's more immediate staff?
Lucius seems like a good contender, and his position at head of praetorian guard puts him in a good way of taking the throne with no announced heir.
>>
SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NORDS
>>
>>3666117
Along with 5 other cities... It wasn't just Shady Sands.
>>
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It's bad enough you brainlets don't know about Hegelian dialectics, but that reading a wiki article about it won't be enough for you to notice the pretty good joke in making a fake Ceasar referencing Hegel in any way whatsoever. If you didn't chuckle at that part you're literally too dumb for New Vegas.
>>
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>>3664501
How could I have been so blind?
>>
>>3668390
>stormniggers
>literally propped up by thalmor to keep the empire divided.
>>
>>3676668
Follow the reply chain
Ysmir validates the Stormcloak effort
>>
>>3665728
>The very aspect Caesar hates about the NCR
He literally says he has no personal animosity, but that the collapse of the weak to the strong is inevitable. The dialectic is between chaotic, tribal militarism (Legion) and inept bureaucracy (NCR), which are both distortions of military and politics. The synthetic point will be a new glorious Empire based upon competent military law. From the NCR, law, and from the legion, might.
>>
>>3675505
I know the Dialectic was the Caesar just before Constatine and he hated Christians, but I'm not sure of who the Hegelian guy was. Was he the sun-god worshipper?
>>
>>3664512
It's not even necessarily that its conquest would fix its flaws. Even encountering the competing methods and ideas of the legion would spur change within the NCR.
>>
One thing that people overlook with the legion, is that aside from its aesthetics and nomenclature, it was the only faction with a sustainable attitude towards technology.

Every other faction was dependent on pre-war scrap, and expected that an artisanal mode of manufacture will allow them to sustain a copy of an industrial society (for proof of this, see the gun runner's factor, which is just a bunch of artisans at work benches). The foremost doctors of the wasteland, the Followers, were already beginning to feel the pinch of relying on pre-war supplies. This situation was going to come to a head at some point, and leave society in a lurch.

The legion meanwhile, while it utilized scrap, was not dependent on it, and wanted to build the necessary infrastructure from the ground up, even if it meant a short term technological disadvantage.
>>
>>3676865
In Fallout 1 the Brotherhood of Steel literally design their own weapons and tech, though.
>>
>>3676919
And by New Vegas are basically hording scraps without any meaningful industry.
>>
>>3669113
Your understanding of lore is super pleb-tier, please read the 36 lessons of Vivec 36 times a day for 36 days and then come back.
>>
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>>3664501
>Dies before he can do any of that and ends up with some ooga booga retard
>>3667237
Woke
>>3675505
We're all too dumb for new vegas

The legion were a bunch of retard ooga booga faggots who basically pulled a historical Khmer rouge and decides to go backwards. They're retarded, sure Caeser has his reasoning but he's essentially a psychopath and all of the retards on here going "muh Caeser" are pathetic insecure dickboys. Caeser is retarded, his plan would never work, he doesn't understand what he's talking about he read a fucking grade school textbook. NCR is shitty, but that's the same problems the old world had, and going backwards isn't going to fix that one bit. As soon as Caeser dies it just makes a power vacuum and leads to the exact same fucking problems. But wait, who's an autocrat that won't die? House.
Really makes you think huh? A man who is completely removed from physical wants and desires, who only wants his city to prosper, seems alright to me
>>
>>3676987
House could be the savior of America if he wasn't only preoccupied on his snowglobe city New Vegas.
>>
>>3676987
>Realizes NCR has fallen to old world traps
>Doesn't realize House is literally an old world robber baron who wants to make his shitty nostalgiac memories of the old world reality, even when that old world caused its own destruction.

Yes Man Best Man
>>
>>3676987

>Who is completely removed from physical wants and desires

I don't know that you're thinking of the same House, given that he let himself be ruled by his own pettiness and vindictiveness, particularly where the Brotherhood of Steel was concerned. And this coming from someone who feels that the BoS is far past their prime and serves no purpose to the denizens of the wasteland anymore.
>>
>>3676987
>decides to go backwards
Legion is a massive step up for literally 95% of the post-apocalyptic wasteland. You speak from the position of someone who isn't a Brahmin herdsmen in Utah.
>>
>>3669329
>implying knife ears give a fuck about their gods
>imolying they're not just planning on destroying the towers anyway
>>
>>3677781
Go back to pol “nord”
>>
>>3677799
>knife eared niggers actually believe everybody who hates them is a nord
Pelinal did nothing wrong.
>>
>>3664466
Literally written by a SoCal left-liberal Chomskyite.

Unsure if the idiot writer thought that's what Hegel was all about, or tried to make Caesar sound like a Wikipedia-taught moron, but awful all the same.

We need actual Marxist/historical materialist game devs.
>>
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>>3677852
>Reddit spacing
>Having such shite b8
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>>3675505
>When he is such a brainlet that he forgets Hegel compared Caesar to Napoleon
Out of my board , pseud
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>>3676987
>House is the best choice
Oh yes, because an old world industrialists who is scamming local people across the wasteland of their caps and funding major crime syndicated underneath him totally is a competent and moral ruler
>>
>>3677352
>particularly where the Brotherhood of Steel was concerned.

He had a point about them though. There was no way they were going to tolerate a guy ruling the Mojave with combat robots.
>>
>>3675505
>It's a pseud doesn't understand hegel episode
Sad
>>
>>3677924
I'm willing to be a considerable sum that nobody on this board actually 'understands' Hegel in any great detail.
>>
hegel is the worst thing to happen to philosophy next to plato
>>
>>3677781
>>implying knife ears give a fuck about their gods
their entire race is assblasted about apparently being struck from immortality by Lorkhan
>>
>>3677852
Legion is actually a really good objective choice, you just have to be harsh and not apply modern Liberal principles onto a post-apocalyptic wasteland.
It's a good argument for when extreme AuthRight policies are necessary.
>>
Would comparing Caesar's Legion to the Ostrogoths actually be a fair comparison?
He hopes that his barbarous yet principled tribal empire will meet the NCR's cultured yet corrupt and unvirtuous state to create a principled, virtuous, and cultured state to dominate the American southwest.

I remember someone on /his/ explaining how the Ostrogothic kingdom that overran the Italian Peninsula due to the Roman bureaucracy's shortcomings actually had much respect for the Roman culture and society, but not it's government.
the Western Roman empire was supposedly going to have a simple Germanic infusion until Justinian fucking destroyed them, and a plague back east made truly retaking the Italian peninsula impossible and the Vandals came in and actually ruined the place.
>>
DO IT AGAIN WHITESTRAKE

D
O

I
T

A
G
A
I
N
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>>3678080
You hate progress? Its not like there was any other route of philosophy
>>
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>>3664466
>guns tend to stop working when you most need them so our top soldiers fight with swords
Caesar might be legit retarded
>>
>>3679575
But it's not. The most prosperous and powerful society in the wasteland is the NCR, by a huge margin. The legion depends on some precarious plots and the NCR not getting their shit together (really all it would take is them putting Colonel Moore or Colonel Hsu in charge of military operations).
>>
>>3680122
melee is strong as fuck in NV if you've got the right drugs for it. Caesar just knew his way around the meta.
>>
>>3680122
>doesn't need to carry ammunition
genius
>>
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>>3664466
>war torn desert region
>independent warlord creates his own state
>roleplay as a defunct historical empire
>leader recreated the title of that old empire's ruler for himself
>whoever joins also changes their name to fit the historic theme
>foot soldiers wear masks
>use terrorist tactics (such as blowing up trains) and brutal execution like crucifiction to intimidate enemies

wow, really original Bethesda
>>
>>3680209
It was pre-ISIS. And not Bethesda. But I have a feeling you knew this already.
>>
>>3680146
The legion also bans chems.
>>
>>3680209
>>3680236
is.... is the legion the ISIS of the 23rd century?
>>
>>3680270
no, Legion is the Kingdom of Rome in the 23rd century.
>>
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>>3664466
The NCR has the most cuties. Plus NCR rangers are operator as fuck.
>>
>>3680209
is this b8

>>3680270
well, for the sake of Arabs, anything that could restore order to the place would be a step up, just as in Fallout.
ISIS instantly attracts the ire of basically the whole rest of the world, and ISIS isn't powerful enough.
I would better compare the Legion with the Syrian Government, which, while authoritarian, holds the power to keep things in line unlike the FSA.
>>
>>3680317
>GUHRL POWAH
>gets crucified
>>
>>3680278
Is ISIS the Rome of the 21th century?
>>
>>3680360
no, not polytheistic enough. America is the Rome of the 21st century.
>>
>>3679642
No. The Goths were a Germanic (I refuse to use German to describe anything pre-Thirty Years War) tribe forced to flee from their home by the encroaching nomadic Huns, and the task of trying to absorb/resettle/otherwise deal with them ended up being so impossible for the then-groaning-under-its-already-innumerable-problems Roman Empire that it ended up the most direct cause of the Western half to completely collapse when it did. That's pretty much nothing like Caesar's Legion.
>>
>>3680725
>forced to flee from their home
desu they weren't originally native to those areas
>>
>>3680797
I know. Pretty much nobody living in Germania could be said to call that place home, since pretty much everyone there were just tribes from the rest of the continent that kept moving until stopped by the Roman borders.
Still, there's a lot of people who call the Vandals and Goths "German".
>>
>>3680343

>TRUE TO CAESAR
>dies from an easily curable infection
>>
>>3681115
>having a dissolute immune system
you had it coming profligate
>>
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>true to CAESAR
>rushes guns with machetes
>dies horribly
>>
>>3669637
Isn't Alduin the Son of Akatosh?
>>
>>3681656
I'm tempted to make a play on that Catholic Trinity graphic that keeps coming up here with Alduin, Akatosh, and Anu.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Alduin/Akatosh_Dichotomy
>>
>>3681953
>>3681656

Akatosh and Lorkhan are also related in a weird way, so basically the whole of the world's struggles are self-creating
>>
>caesar's legion didn't use guns

Then what the fuck was with all those lever carbines?
>>
>>3681115
They had natural healing items.
>>
>>3680343
>HAIL TO CAESAR
>rushes into battle with Melee weapons
>gets shot
>>
>>3682021
The Legion were all hypocrites. They renounced the use of chems and used all-natural products like healing powder despite the fact that stimpacks are basically the injectable version of healing powder. They renounced the use of modern technologies such as medical machines like the autodoc despite the fact that Cesar has a working autodoc in his own goddamn tent. They renounced guns because of muh 'run out of ammunition' in favor of meelee weapons despite the fact that Cesar's elite are seen wielding carbines and anti-materiel rifles during the battle of Hoover Dam. Anyone who goes legion should be aware that every legionnaire is an absolute hypocritical luddite cuck.
>>
>>3664501
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis.

I want to play the game again, suddenly..
>>
If the Legion were all about sustainable technologies they should've really used bows or something, I know the more valuable troops use guns and even lasers and plasma but for the guys without that luxury a primitive ranged weapon has gotta be better than machetes and bats.
How hard would it be to just port bows from Oblivion?
>>
>>3664703
Why didn't the Southwest have that sort of time?
>>
>>3684022
>If
wood, bro it's hard.
Jav is goood.
>>
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>>3668390
>posts like this
Slavery is still legal in the NCR by the time of New Vegas.
>>
>>3676987
>completely removed from physical wants and desires

The nigga had Sex-Bots.
>>
>>3685274
sauce?
>>
>>3677852
He's supposed to sound like he misunderstands it, though. His Intelligence rating in the game's files is 4 out of 10. Sawyer and Avellone aren't dyed-in-the-wool Marxists, but they're not stupid motherfuckers, either.
>>
>>3682592
ceasar said you had to make your own. Which is what he did with his broken auto-doc and ulysseus corroborates this in honest hearts. Instead of looting dead people for their weapons like the NCR does.
>>
>>3682592
>renounced
Idk about the chems, or the guns, or the tech. Seems more like a bunch of poorfags in football gear banting hard.
>>
>>3685288
Actually I might have to retract this, I can't relocate the source. I want to say that one of the Fallout Bibles cited the northern NCR states as still having legal and regulated slaver bands with an implication that it could be related to debt or criminal charges. We do know that the NCR sees no problem with using forced labor as a sentence given the origin of the Powder Gangers, but at the same time slavery is stated to also be illegal *within* the boundaries of their cities by the time of NV, so I really cannot say with certainty that my assertion was correct.
>>
>>3668390
NCR has guns and power armor, the Legion has spears and literal dinner plates. Plus NCR government isn't entirely dependent on one LARPer with a brain tumor.
>>
>>3685786
Legate Lanius, ulysseus, the courier if he joins, inculta, were all tried and proven members of his government and would be useful members of it. They could have kept it going if they wanted to, and the NCR itself stabs itself in the foot with things like their own men defecting, women in combat roles (who get raped) being tyrannical to the mojave, nuking the divide which caused their own lack of mobility in the region. Its only natural, and by everyone's account, that the NCR would lose the dam eventually simply because of the platonic forms of each group.




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