Is Russia a 'Western Civilization'?
>It's an American thread
>>3920319>Christian>Title for former head of state was literally the native word for "Caesar">Speaks Indo-European language>Directly involved in Western European politics for the past 400 or so years>Massive contributions to Classic European arts such as ballet and orchestra>One of their most famous monarchs was literally GermanYes. Only special slowflake Euros think that it isn't, and like to pretend that Russia is as culturally distinct from them as Iran or China in order to make themselves feel more unique.
Why not? Their centre is settled in Europe. The rest are several people, mostly of them ancient nomads and they impose to them their russian way of life. Even Vladivostok, which is in the far east, was founded as rusian colony.
>>3920347Having a German royal family seems to be a recurring theme among European countries
>>3920358Makes sense. For many centuries there were more German states (no matter the size) than pretty much any other ethnic group in Europe thanks to the HRE. After so many years of inter royal marriages, the Germans had hit just about every dynasty in Europe at one point or another.
>>3920335it's an american website
Russia is neither wholly European or Asian.
>>3920462>wholly Asian>implying a definable "Asian" cultural sphere even exists
>>3920347But I thought Russians were just Turko-Slavic rapebabies.
>>3920319Russia was westernized by Peter the Great and a great power of Europe under Catherine the Great
>>3920475"Asia" is the worst Euro meme, arbitrarily lumping Turkey, India, and China into one colossal mass.
>>3920347Now tell me about the Russia past Moscow and let's see if it's european too.
>>3920475>implying a definable “European” or “Western” cultural sphere even exists
>>3920319Russian is geographically bigger than the entirety of the western civilization geographically, if we do not consider it a part of it.The best approach is to think of Russia as it's own thing, I mean they were /this/ close to making islam the country's religion, but the no-alcohol thing drove the TSARkang went "nah pacani, bodka is life"
>>3920505>they were /this/ close to making islam the country's religionSource on that?
>>3920503More so than an Asia one. Almost all European countries are a part of the same language family. Almost all of them were Christian for the majority of their modern history. Both of the scripts they used were significantly derived from Greek script, which itself was derived from phoenician script. I mean, I won't act like there's a truly hard cut off, but the situations between Europe and Asia are not comparable in the least.
>>3920496>The existence of the non primary non European parts means the clearly European parts aren't really EuropeanDid you stop considering England European the moment is took some clay in the Syria?
>>3920532Just like the other anon said, Russia is so big it should be considered on its own with all the particularities.
>>3920503>Greek and Roman cultural and philosophical influences>Christianity>the Renaissance (most of Europe)>the Enlightenment (most of Europe)>shared musical, artistic, and architectural styles>Indo-European languages (most of Europe)>genetics and physical appearance
>>3920542Most of those aren't true.
>>3920475>>3920487>>3920524The medieval Church of the East, also known as the Persian church was practically a pan-Asian culture, although mostly concentrated in the Indian and Persian cultural 'spheres', from Aleppo to Chittagong. Also note the general cultural contact between Persia and China through the Silk Road, especially under the Mongols who tried to combine them, and who incidentally were aligned with the Church of the East.So probably Persian or Transoxianan culture is the closest thing to the center of a pan-Asian culture, probably especially under the Safavids before the Silk Road presumably fell.
>>3920589>The medieval Church of the East, also known as the Persian church was practically a pan-Asian cultureThat's incredibly flimsy. It was a church that had a wide reach geographically speaking, but it was hardly ever the primary religion of any country it was in. As well, the modern day culture of Asian countries has very little to owe to the Church of the East, because the vast majority of their traditions started well before the church got there.>So probably Persian or Transoxianan culture is the closest thing to the center of a pan-Asian culture, probably especially under the Safavids before the Silk Road presumably fellAbsolutely not. The cultural links between 17th century Turks, Persians, Han Chinese, Dravidians, and Cambodians were so flimsy they were pretty much non existent.
>>3920539Geographic size does not denote population dispersal or cultural prevalency. 77% of Russia's population lives West of the Urals and ethnic Russians make up 80% of the country's population and are undeniably the primary culture of the nation. A 5% tatar population doesn't change that. When you put Russian culture on a global scale, the idea that it's anything but Western is laughable. It's not even distinct enough to warrant its own category.
>>3920619>it was hardly ever the primary religion of any country it was in.It was the majority in at least the countryside of Kurdistan/Assyria for several centuries. Up to a millennium.>The cultural links between 17th century Turks, Persians, Han Chinese, Dravidians, and Cambodians were so flimsy they were pretty much non existent.The lands of the Dravidians were under attempted conquest by an Empire following Persian culture and originating in Afghanistan in that period. Besides the Delhi Sultanate before that, also led by Turks.
>>3920688But yes, it is probably flimsy. That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to mention.
>>3920688>>3920692>It was the majority in at least the countryside of Kurdistan/Assyria for several centuries. Up to a millennium.Which is a small small area compared to the entire continent of Asia>The lands of the Dravidians were under attempted conquest by an Empire following Persian culture and originating in Afghanistan in that period. Besides the Delhi Sultanate before that, also led by Turks.And? Just because they have interactions with one another doesn't mean that they're a part of the same cultural sphere. The Ottoman Empire had more interaction with European countries over its history than countries in Asia. That doesn't suddenly make the Ottoman Empire a part of some European cultural sphere.>But yes, it is probably flimsy. That doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to mention.I'm not saying that it's all irrelevant to history. I'm saying that none of this binds the majority of people living in Asia like Latin and Greek culture binds the people of Europe together. You could make an argument for India and the Middle East perhaps being part of some greater "Turco-Persian" cultural sphere, but throwing in the entire continent of Asia in with that too is just absurd.
>>3920358They've kept marrying themselves into other houses for around 200 years, by the time of WW1 every royal in Europe was a Kraut (or a Frog).
>>3920481>TurkoWhere are you getting that from? They've mixed with Finno-Ugrics, not Turks.
you can start calling it European/western when it stops being such a shithole
>>3920319>Indo-European tribes in geographic Europe>European medieval feudalism with Christianity as state religion>European colonial imperial monarchy>contributed to the European ecosystem of arts and ideology>Socialism is a completely nonsensical political outlook if you're not well-versed in European political tradition and the Enlightenment>currently federal semi-presidential constitutional liberal-capitalist republic >always been active in European affairsWhere they ever not "western"?
>>39209841918 onwards they have not been western.
>>3920996The Soviet Union was the most western Russia has ever been in the same sense China is now
>>3921007A wow, a cartoon. What am I to do now
>>3921000I think you and I have a different definition of the word western. The only western thing about the USSR was that communism itself was invented in the west (even though it's really anti-west).
>>3920996>obliterates any sign of Russian tradition and history and coldly installs western institutions in its place>not western
>>3921017I don't have a different definition of western. It's just that I won't accept an American military alliance as an actual culture/civilization.
>>3921022You're talking about Peter the Great? Because he did exactly that. >>3921030What the fuck does that have to do with the USSR?
>>3921043>What the fuck does that have to do with the USSR?"Western" became associated with liberal democracy and atlanticist attitudes during the Cold War, when it is, or at least should be, something much bigger than that. Only by this definition was Russia ever not western and that's an idiotic view in my opinion. You're throwing away centuries of history, politics and culture for a meme period.If you look past the simple above definition of western, the USSR took values of European modernity and ran it into the ground. What I want to say is that it's not possible to create a beast like the USSR without being "western". If you went to some backwards African or Asian states at the time and told them about communism, colonialism, nationalism and all that crap Russia has been embroiled with they'd just look at you funny - because they're European things.
>>3921087I consider liberal democracy anti-western the same as communism.
>>3920319It is western and eastern, which is why they don't have very many friends.
>>3920319I wish it was.t. Russian-American
>>3920984You could argue that before peter (and even more so during the mongol yoke) there was far less cultural connection to western/middle europe than at other times.>>3921087Pretty much. Communist russia was a european creature, even if they tried their hardest to deny it during the cold war.
>>3921201And they were still western before the Mongrol invasion.
>>3920619>As well, the modern day culture of Asian countries has very little to owe to the Church of the East, because the vast majority of their traditions started well before the church got there.Oh, also, there's Mongolian and other C. A. writing which may be due to the Church.
>>3920554literally which part you tard. greek/roman, indo-european culture/language/genetics(R1b, R1a), and Christianity apply to all of Europe.