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Pope Francis was asked by a child in one of his public showings if the boy's atheist father is in haven. The child was baptized and believed, but the father didn't. Pope Francis shared the question with the crowd, and there was unease, people knowing the doctrine answer and being uncomfortable with it.
Then the pope proceeded to weasel talk a bit, and ultimately say that the boy's atheist father is surely welcomed by God in haven.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkeGXQEh_GY

How do christians of /his/ feel about this? Also general christianity theological discussion thread.
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From the video description:

>At his Pastoral Visit to the Roman Parish of San Paolo della Croce a Corviale, Pope Francis answered questions from children in their Catechism class. One child, Emanuele, at the moment to address his question to the Holy Father, burst into tears at the microphone. The Pope then invited him to get closer. When the child neared the Pope, he falls into his arms. Emanuele asked Pope Francis, if his deceased father, an atheist but who had his four children baptized (Emanuele, two other brothers and a sister), if he went to Heaven, and is not in Hell. >Here's what Pope Francis answers (explaining that he asked Emanuele permission to publicly report the question, which the child had whispered in his ear):
>"Maybe we could cry like Emanuele when we have pain in our heart. He cries for his father who died and has had the courage to do it in front of us because there is love in his heart - he underlines - his father was an atheist but he had his four children baptized, he was a good man. It's nice that a son says his dad was "good." If that man was able to make children like that, he was a good man. God is proud of your father. God has a father's heart, your dad was a good man, he's in heaven with him, I'm sure. God has a father's heart and before an unbelieving father who was able to baptize his children, would God be able to abandon him? God surely was proud of your father, because it is easier to be a believer and to have children baptized than to be a believer and to have their children baptized. Pray for your dad, talk to your dad. This is the answer ".

Also a picture of the kind of crowd he was hosting when he said it.
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>>4984792
“pope” Francis is a heretic
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>>4984792
>How do christians of /his/ feel about this?
that he us a fraud and antipope

t. former catholic until pope Francis
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>>4984792
Everyone knows how Christians really think of Jesuits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw4E86x8xBo
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based Pope Emeritus is still alive
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>>4984809
Are you recommending this video in good faith, or ironically as a bad argument?
Sorry, I genuinely can't tell because of this being 4chan and all.
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>>4984833
I saw him in Rome a month ago, he was looking bad, and wasn't very responsive to the small crowd around him. They keep him in a side building in the Vatican.
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Catholics going back on their doctrines because it's inconvenient for them at the moment? Wow, this has never happened before!
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>implying that the church doctrine isn't open to development through the holy spirit, the 3rd person who is still bringing new revelations about the nature of god.
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>>4984792
Most of what Christians believe about heaven and hell is from Catholic dogma anyways, not based ono the Bible. No reason to get upset about the same church changing it.
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>>4984841
I think that atheists, especially apostates, not being welcomed by God is in the scripture.
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He should have told him the truth, that Heaven and Hell are made up places.
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>>4984792
>can say you're sure atheists are in Heaven
>can't say you're sure terrorists are in Hell

This is the suspect part.
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>>4984846

Is it? Where?
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>>4984792
Get this: Jesus says "Love other humans as much as yourself, and God as much as you can" in the same statement. Jesus also said "this overrules all other things said ever" This basically means that you need to love God just as much or even more than people, but for simplicity let's say that if
Love for yourself = Love for other humans = Love for God
then you go to heaven. Jesus also basically said "everything you do to humans, you do to me". So this means that always
Love for God = Love for people
So the only thing you need to do to go to heaven, is love people as much as yourself and you're set.
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>>4984792
The Pope knows there is a chance the father recanted in his last seconds. The Pope is infallible, heretic.
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>>4984872
So if I kill myself to save my family from having to suffer me, I go to haven with priority, since this is the ultimate "love others more than self" case?
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>>4984834
yes
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>>4984881
>the pope is infallible
>even when he contradicts himself

Why doesn't the pope fund charity by playing the lottery? He can't get the numbers wrong.
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>>4984881
You just reminded me of the poster who said the Pope is God and that Catholic teaching is wrong for saying he isn't.
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>>4984889
Probably not cause then they have to pay for the funeral. Can you do anything right?
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Cucktholic not even once
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What's the point of the catholic church as an institution even existing anymore? Clearly they don't give the slightest shit about the beliefs they supposedly represent and it's not like they're a ruling class anymore either. Why fucking continue then? For what purpose?
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>>4984920
They are powerful in Africa, and run a lot of money there for food, education, etc.
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>>4984792
Beautiful.
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I wonder when satanists get to go to heaven too
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>>4985024
After a period in purgatory to burn away their sins.
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>>4984792
>Implying most "christians" on /his/ aren't just Deus Vult LARPers
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pope is retarded
all he had to say was something along the line of hes in god's hand now may you have faith in his judgement or some other bs
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>>4985045
I think he was deliberately trying to make a point. It's not like he was caught out, he could have just not told the entire crowd what the kid said.
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>>4985060
He initially looked to the crowd, expecting them to make the call, expecting support immediately, before having to explain himself. I think he misjudged the situation and then doubled down.
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Atheist pope when? Recruit one right off r/atheism.
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>>4985104
>he thinks all popes until now were genuine believers
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>>4984792
He does not say that. He tells the child not to despair for his father's soul and pray for him. This has always been church policy of never confirming whether anyone is in heaven (except for saints) or hell. The Catechism literally forbids despairing for any soul and the Bible states that for God anything is possible, so we have no reason to affirm that, for any given person, that person is in hell.

As disappointing as he is on other matters, Francis didn't go against doctrine here.

Why do anti-Catholics have only lies and smears instead of arguments?
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>>4985081
That seems incredibly far-fetched. The idea the Pope was waiting for someone from the crowd to randomly answer a theological question on his behalf seems silly.
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>>4985120
He spoke out the child's question to the crowd, and ended with a question mark, and a moment of silence. He expected the crowd to answer, like they did later to his simpler questions.
The crowd was awkward initially, they didn't know what was expected of them when the question was "does a good atheist go to haven", but they did respond to the easier questions like "does god love good fathers" or some such.
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>>4985131
This is ridiculous fantasy.
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>>4985143
Its in the video, linked in the OP.
You can tell he expected a more favorable initial crowd reaction, and continued talking after not getting it, until eventually the crowd did respond positively to his simpler questions.
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>your grandfather was personally invited to Constantinople for a celebration by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople
>your grandma didn’t want to go because it was a bother
>your aged grandpa didn’t want to go alone

I will never forgive her for this
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>>4985150
No, that's your wild and positively bonkers personal interpretation of said video.
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>>4985131
Sounds to me like that was simply a rhetorical thing. Have you been to church? There's always questions in sermons and service, but that doesn't mean the padre is "phoning a friend".
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>>4985180
I didn't say he was phoning a friend. You and the other person are being overly hostile to mask insecurity. Don't do that.

What I am saying is that the pope made a statement, and expected popular support. He didn't get popular support, so he doubled down on the statement, seeking that support. I doubt he wanted to say all he ended up saying, more like he said it because he didn't get enough claps initially so he had to keep talking and keep going.
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>>4984792
baffles me that this situation didn't turn almost everyone there into an atheist. this innocent child was obviously raised, and probably told, that his father is burning in hell for eternity, that he will never see him again. its abuse, its actual emotional abuse.
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>>4984792

What was he supposed to say? catholicucks would have seen him as a monster if he said otherwise
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>>4984846

The bible says that apostates go to Hell, the word means the one that has strayed away. So those who have an express ticket to hell are the unrepentant sinners, much more than non-believers.

Repentant and or unrelgious virtuous people, according to Catholic doctrine go to Limbo, neitehr heaven nor hell, and they work their way to heaven.
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>>4985190
Well someone brought him to the pope to ask this question, so at least one adult in his family thought he'd get a satisfactory answer. I can only assume they expected something like what they got.
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I don't understand how Catholics can justify extra ecclesiam nulla salus when the whole point of the Crucifixion is that everyone is saved.
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>>4985190
TRULY, I HAVE FELT IT BROTHERS AND SISTERS! I SAT THERE, WATCHING THE POPE SPEAK IN A LANGUAGE I DO NOT UNDERSTAND, WHILE LISTENING TO A MAN TRANSLATE THAT I DID NOT KNOW I COULD TRUST NOR THAT HAD A FIRM GRASP ON TWO TONGUES AT ONCE... AND I FELT THIS GREAT SURGE COME OVER THE CROWD. DISBELIEF SWEPT THROUGH US ALL AT ONCE, AND WE WERE INSTANTLY CURED, **CURED** OF OUR DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS! BELIEFS THAT WERE **INSTILLED** IN US FROM OUR FORMATIVE YEARS. OUR FAITH IN AN ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-SEEING, AND **ALL LOVING** DEITY WAS SIMPLY **GONE**, REPLACED BY THE WARM AND DELIGHTFUL NOTHINGNESS OF **ATHEISM**!
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>>4984792
>How do christians of /his/ feel about this?
What a shitty answer by the so-called Pope.

The correct answer is that only God decides who inherits the Kingdom of God.

P.S. There's no such thing as 'heaven' in Christian theology. It's a purely pagan concept.
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>>4985197
>Repentant and or unrelgious virtuous people, according to Catholic doctrine go to Limbo, neitehr heaven nor hell, and they work their way to heaven.

No, this is wrong. The only ones that go to limbo are those that have no mortal sin AND have invincible ignorance (that is, they didn't hear nor could reasonably have heard the gospel). This is basically young children and savages, and in today's age it is basically impossible to be in invincible ignorance otherwise. And limbo is not heaven and will never give access to heaven, it is not a bad place but it is not anywhere close to heaven.

The thing however is that the church literally forbids despairing from any particular soul, that is, you CAN'T know for certainty whether any given soul will be in hell or not. In God anything is possible, including taking Emmanuelle's atheist dad into heaven, which is why the Pope orients the kid towards praying for his dad. But this is at God's secret ways and we should not ever bet on it for ourselves (because that is the opposite sin of despair, presumption).
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>>4985213
>the whole point of the Crucifixion is that everyone is saved

No, the whole point of the Crucifixion is that the way towards salvation and reunion with God is opened, not that everyone is automatically saved. It pays for original sin and gives the opportunity to repent for any sins after that.
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>>4985190
>>4985219
FOR THIS IS ALL THAT IT TAKES! ONE OLD MAN MAYBE POSSIBLY NOT HAVING A STRAIGHT ANSWER FOR WHERE A MAN'S SOUL HAS GONE CAUSING US ALL TO REMEMBER THAT MANY CONVENTIONAL CHRISTIAN SECTS BELIEVE THAT ATHEISTS GO TO HELL. AS ONE, WE ALL PONDERED THE FACT THAT THIS MERE **CHILD** WAS POSSIBLY MAYBE RAISED WITH THAT BELIEF. SOME DID NOT SEE THE LIGHT, BUT AN OVERWHELMING **TIDE** OF US RENOUNCED OUR FAITHS THEN AND THERE AS THE REALIZATION DAWNED.
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>>4985182
>the pope made a statement, and expected popular support
That's a hard thing to say.

If I were him, I would be looking out to the crowd to see the worry and discomfort on the faces of the people at this question. It's not only the boy who has this worry -- assuredly it's every serious Catholic. Of course, if I were him, I would be saddened to read the foregone and dismal conclusion on those faces, but not surprised. It also seemed as though he already knew what he wanted to say.

I like to think that he wasn't asking for support or a lifeline or anything, but more likely, what each of them would tell this boy. Because he's clearly been told something cruel, very likely by people much like those in the crowd. Not speaking Italian it's hard to tell exactly what he said but the question and response sounded something like a challenge.
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>>4985231
unless you can say why and how sin works in the way it affects you in the afterlife then your christianity shit is nonsense
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>>4985231
>It pays for original sin
But only for men, right? Because women still bear the very same curses attributed to original sin.
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>>4985245
OHO WHAT HAVE WE HERE?! ANOTHER BROTHER THAT HAS SEEN THE LIGHT! I TIP MY FEDORA TO YOU SIR, AND WISH YOU LUCK IN YOUR CASUAL DISMISSAL OF THESE LESSERS THAT HAVE NOT YET **ASCENDED** TO FAITHLESSNESS AND REJECTION! FOR ONLY FROM THE HIGHEST HORSE, THE STEED OF **ATHEISM**, CAN A MAN JUDGE ANOTHER'S BELIEFS AND IDEAS!
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>>4985261
I think you need to call an ambulance, you are having a stroke.
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>>4985261
not an atheist, you can only respond pretentiousnss because you are wrong.
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>>4985219
Its the official Youtube channel of the Vatican, do you think they put the wrong translation? Retard.
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>>4985260
The temporal, bodily effects of original sin still remain on both sexes. This is why we still die, we still have to earn our daily bread through the sweat of our front and women have birthing pains. It is the spiritual dead weight that is taken off by baptism.
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>>4985219
>>4985241
>>4985261
>when the catholics are the biggest fedora tippers in the thread

Absolute cringe.
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>>4985060
>>4985081
>>4985120
>>4985131
>>4985180
It was done for gravitas. He put the question to the crowd so they could feel the pressure and let it linger so that when he reassured the kid that his da was good and deserved heaven they also felt the relief. If he gave a dry answer by the book either the kid would be hurt or the crowd might feel the Pope made shit up like it didn't matter - because they were put on the spot they understood why the Pope's answer mattered.
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>>4985282
In that case why can't women be priests, if their vaginas don't have spiritual dead weight anymore?

Is baptism just half-effective on them or what?

>>4985301
That's how it seemed to me
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>>4985301
Fantasy. You would have to have the IQ of a goat to believe this.
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>>4985301
>It was done for gravitas.
>He put the question to the crowd so they could feel the pressure and let it linger so that when he reassured the kid that his da was good and deserved heaven they also felt the relief.

This is actually a good explanation. You converted me.
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>>4985313
>In that case why can't women be priests, if their vaginas don't have spiritual dead weight anymore?

That never had anything to do with the issue of original sin.
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>>4985279
It actually looks like it's just a blog with auto-generated subtitles and a Youtube channel. I think Vatican News is the official channel.
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Doesn't Catholicism have a purgatory/limbo type scenario where noble pagans and unbaptised babies and such reside for a while? Kinda like the Jewish washing machine for souls? I'm raised protestant and not a fan of needing the church to mediate between me and Him but the dogmatism vs. the flexibility of Catholicism does make me wonder sometimes.
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>>4985333
You are correct, and I was mistaken.
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>>4985333
Same anon. I just clicked the about tab, found a link to this blog.

https://catholicsat.com/
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>>4985338
Purgatory is for the baptised who died in venial sin.

Unbpatized infants go to limbo. They are denied heaven but limbo is kinda nice in itself.

As far as pagans go, they go to heaven/purgatory if they, simultaneously:

>live in accordance to the law of God, to the extent of their knowledge of it
>were in a state of invincible ignorance of Christ, as in, didn't hear the gospel nor could reasonably have heard it.

Which is basically impossible today save for very isolated tribes.
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>>4985242
i speak italian if anyone wants to have exact translations of any part of the pope's speech
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>>4985446
Can you confirm the translation >>4984795
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>>4985450
it isn't wrong, just a few things
1) "If only we could cry like Emanuele" is a better translation than "Maybe we could cry like Emanuele"
2) "it is easier to be a believer and to have your children baptised than to be an unbelievere and to have your children baptised", at the end, that just seems like a mistake tho
3) It fails to report a little thing Francis says that is however I think pretty important, he says "The only one able to tell who goes to heaven is God"
4) Fails to report what Francis says when talking to the crowd. He says "What's God's heart (attitude) like when faced with such a (good) father? What do you think?". The crowd remains silent, and he goes on and says "God has a father's heart". Then a bit later he asks the crowd "Do you think God would allow such a good man to be away from him, to leave him behind? Do you think that". Some people in the crowd answer negatively, and he reinforces saying something like "C'mon, with confidence!" (as in, believe in your answer and dont just murmur it). The crowd then more confidently. He then asks if God abandons his sons, crowd says no, so Francis goes back to talking to Emanuele and says "See Emanuele, this is the answer. God was certainly proud of your father"
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>>4985511
Thank you for the excellent clarifications.
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>>4984833
Kek
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>>4984792
I am not at all religious but I have been saying for a few years that the only existing group big enough to take on capitalism is religion.

It basically preaches the opposite of capitalism - community vs individualism - unsustainable need vs charity etc.

I know too that the Church has acted pretty appallingly for about 20 centuries But, if that stuff can be changed in the future I'd much rather live by the Bible's community based recommendations than the ones handed down by big corporations who need more profit and will drive us under the ground to get it.
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>>4985226
/thread
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>>4985724
To make use of that you need people who read and trust christian texts. Christian texts insist that people should live in a monarchy. Monarchy, or privately owned government, is pretty capitalist in nature.
So we have a problem here.
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>>4984792
What did you expect him to do? Tell the kid his father is not in heaven? And then dab?
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>>4985766
>Christian texts insist that people should live in a monarchy. Monarchy, or privately owned government, is pretty capitalist in nature.
Christian texts such as?
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>>4984803
All Catholics are heretics by default...
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>>4985898
Pretty sure the old testament said something about God making a contract with David to give him land that will stay in his bloodline forever, and that he will rule it forever, and the chosen people will live there forever.
And then there are dozens of scriptures that talk about giving the king/emperor his due, and what rights the king has. Nothing about republics.
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>>4984804
>changes denominations willy nilly
>doesn't believe he's an apostate

Brimstone's waiting for you, my dude.
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>>4984792
>hey if you don't believe in our god no biggy, you can still get into heaven, you know the main reason for joining Christianity.
>gib money plx
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>>4985914
>Pretty sure
>said something
Oh okay, I hope you aren't Christian or Jewish since you seem pretty vague on what are supposed to be the central doctrines that guide your life.

>God making a contract with David to give him land that will stay in his bloodline forever, and that he will rule it forever, and the chosen people will live there forever.
So a specific command in a specific country in the part of bible that was specifically aimed at one ethnicity and has been overturned for the rest.

>And then there are dozens of scriptures that talk about giving the king/emperor his due
Well there is Matthew 22:21 ie;e the classic phrase "render unto Caesar" again there is no indication this is a general support for monarchy rather than a specific piece of teaching based on the circumstance and I'm not sure that these "dozens" are you are talking about.

And what about the scriptures that support Capitalism that you claim exist, despite clearly being very very vague about what is even in the Bible?
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>>4984792
Isn't there a verse somewhere in the Bible about a righteous son being able to redeem a shitty father? Not in the context of heaven, just generally. Or am I imagining that?
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>>4984804
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBHfXPqbgI
the only antipope is zlavko the 666
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>>4986690
Oh wow, I had forgotten about Zlad
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>>4984792
This has always happened retard, Christians change like no tomorrow.
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>>4984792
I mean, he's probably in purgatory so yeah that's sounds about right. He probably will go to heaven, very few people in Catholicism end up going to hell
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>>4984792
So this is the power of religious indoctrination. Woah...
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>>4984792
>How do christians of /his/ feel about this?
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>>4984916
>Performing Foot Washing just like Jesus did to his disciples.
>A Christian rite since AD145.
>The rite demonstrates ones humility, just as Jesus demonstrated his humility.
This is why I hate the social darwinists who use Cuck as an insult. Acts of humility are completely inimical to their ideology.
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>>4985511
So, rather than saying he is definitely in heaven, the pope is saying Emmanuelle's father is not abandoned by God. And that he has a shot to get into Heaven. A far different statement than what the subtitles and translation offered by this Catholic Sat vid say.
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NOICE, I get to keep my cake and fuck it too
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>>4984792
The Pope should have just said that the father actually was a believer, but didn't realise it until the moment of death. The guy had his four sons baptised, which should be enough justification for this claim. Then the Pope gets to have his cake and eat it, too.
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>>4986924
>The guy had his four sons baptised
It could have been the mother or grandparents who actually pushed for it, and the father simply permitted it since he was indifferent.

I was baptized myself even though neither of my parents were religious. It was simply to satisfy my grandmother.
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>>4986753
get cucked faggot
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>>4986753
I just hate that they're killing English.
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>>4986924
>The Pope should have just said that the father actually was a believer, but didn't realise it until the moment of death.
Only sub-50 IQ niggers would actually believe that, though, it's not like the whole world has learning disabilities.
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>>4986753
I often read about the comparison to what Jesus did to the disciples over here, but people always ignore that Jesus didn't kiss their feet
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>>4986946
Both my parents were baptized but us kids weren't because dad didn't care and mom's family was indocrinated into a group of biblical literalists who don't recognize baptism as a sacrament.
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>>4986820
To be fair, at an unattentive listening one would come out of the speech thinking the pope did say the kid's father is in heaven. He never _directly_ says so, but it (feels like it) is heavily implied by the pope's choices of words
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>>4984792
Pope Francis is a return to Jesus of Nazareth with how much he stresses the church returning to the impoverished. It is obvious that is obvious that Francis preaches a more ancient type of Christianity.
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>>4987234
Hebrew worshipers already believe a lot of absurd things on flimsy grounds. As long as the Pope presents it well, the catholics will accept it. They presumably want to believe that this kid's father might be in some better place.

The Pope could even just say, "I didn't know the man but he was wise enough to have you little runts baptised. Perhaps he never voiced his beliefs to you, perhaps he did, but he knew enough to baptise you and at the moment of passing the three hebrew gods may have smiled down on him and he accepted the magical jew jesus. "
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>>4984881
Papal infallibility wasn’t doctrinal until Leo X got whipped up in an autistic fit by Martin Luther and proclaimed it himself. So the argument supporting papal infallibility is... papal infallibility. A bit circular, that.
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>>4986736
>Pope does something you dislike
>Become Eastern Orthodox
I love this logic. The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it? Nah. Just jump ship to Constantinople because Catholics did something you disagree with. Never mind that the Ecumenical Patriarch is saying much the same.
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Do you all forget that Revelations tells us that Christ will come again? If one doesn’t believe now they will witness him then. Remember Thomas the Doubter,
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>>4986710
You have to remember the differing levels of purgatory and the length of punishment. Indulgences (certain prayers) take weeks off so it must hundreds of years.
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>>4985220
Really
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>>4984792
I'm orthodox but I would have said this is a difficult question and that the only way to find the answer is to read the bible and find the answer in gods words not mine. I understand that the pope is essentially god on earth for Catholics and he needs to answer otherwise his authority will be questioned. this is why Catholicism can be so toxic.

I believe Jesus said that a man who never knew of the true god need only be loyal to the gods he knows to be welcomed into heaven. with a little word bending i guess you could claim the pope is right
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>>4987550
>Pope is essentially God on Earth for Catholics
>This is what non-Catholics actually believe
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>>4985226
This.
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>>4984792
reminder that this shit happened for less

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod
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The Catholic Church has touched millions of children.
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Just wait he'll soon say polytheists go to heaven.
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>>4988407
Thats basically what papal infallibility means. The pope is God's mouth. He is an avatar of God.
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>>4988510
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>>4989488
>In July 2005 Pope Benedict XVI stated during an impromptu address to priests in Aosta that: "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know."[23] Pope John XXIII once remarked: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."[24] A doctrine proposed by a pope as his own opinion, not solemnly proclaimed as a doctrine of the Church, may be rejected as false, even if it is on a matter of faith and morals, and even more any view he expresses on other matters. A well-known example of a personal opinion on a matter of faith and morals that was taught by a pope but rejected by the Church is the view that Pope John XXII expressed on when the dead can reach the beatific vision.[25] The limitation on the pope's infallibility "on other matters" is frequently illustrated by Cardinal James Gibbons's recounting how the pope mistakenly called him Jibbons.
Brainlet.
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>>4989559
>benedict
That guy was so bad at his job he got fired.
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>>4989559
Brainlet posters are the Vicar of Satan on Earth. Why do you serve him?
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>>4989572
Not even all papal documents are infallible, let alone offhand comments by any specific Pope. You have to be either astoundingly or willfully ignorant of Catholicism to think papal infallibility means anything the Pope says is divinely true.
>>4989577
Are you the cult that broke off from the one true church because a mad monk decided he was basically a prophet, or the cult that broke off from the one true church because a mad king wanted to divorce and murder his wife?
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>>4989584
>let alone offhand comments by any specific Pope

You mean like the offhand comment by Benedict XVI you posted as an argument?
>>
>>4989587
So the Pope was not infallable when he said Popes are not infallible, proving that Popes are infallible? That's an amazing argument you have there.
>>
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We're waiting for you catholicucks to return to the one true faith.
You'll be welcomed back with open arms if you repent and abandon your heretical ways.

Love
Orthobros
>>
>>4989592
I don't have to prove anything, my view is the default doctrine.
You have to prove that the pope is not infallible, and you do so by citing the pope, who according to you is not infallible, and thus your argument is shit.
On the other hand, I can dismiss that quote by reminding that Benedict XVI had mental issues and was asked to leave for them, and that he shouldn't be quoted for that reason. He got fired from the papacy because he was unfit.

>>4989593
t. Grand Mufti of Istanbul
>>
>prominent leader of an ideology of love expresses sentiment of love
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>4989595
>On the other hand, I can dismiss that quote by reminding that Benedict XVI had mental issues and was asked to leave for them, and that he shouldn't be quoted for that reason. He got fired from the papacy because he was unfit.
Catholic mental gymnastics.
What happened to papal infallibility you cuck?
You faggots just consistent af.
>>
>>4989595
So how do you reconcile the idea of a Pope infallibly claiming that Popes are not infallible?
>>
>>4989602
The tool was broken, and God replaced it. Don't look at what work the broken tool did. It was not functional.
>>
>>4989602
He has a poor understanding of Catholic dogma.
>>
>>4989603
The pope is infallible while he is a functional human, obviously brain degeneration disease influences his ability to decipher divine providence.
>>
>>4989602
>What happened to papal infallibility you cuck?
>He got fired from the papacy because he was unfit.
IE not acting in the capacity of a pope IE not the pope

Next question.
>>
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>>4989611
>>4989609
>>4989606
>>4989605
If this whole theological thing doesn't work out for you, I'd advise a career in gymnastics.
This is truly impressive.
>>
>>4989609
Ohhhh, when you like the Pope, he is infallible, and when you don't like him, he isn't. That makes a lot more sense, heretic.
>>
>>4984804
>papal infallibility
>papal primacy
>I don’t like this one so fuck him
Whew...
>>
>>4989613
>I refuse your answer because I dislike it

That's your problem.
>>
>>4989614
Its not about me liking the pope, its about the pope being diagnosed with brain damage due to degeneration disease and being unfit. Nobody asked me before firing him from his job.
>>
>>4989614
No, he's always infallible. When he's fallible, he's no longer the true pope. Bada-bing bada-boom.
>>
>>4989613
>>4989613
There's no gymnastics involved. Pope's declarations can be infallible when declaring infallibility in certain Church documents. This rarely ever happens though. One example is the Assumption of Mary, an infallible declaration made by a Pope through church documents. Nothing else the Pope says is ever actually infallible.The Pope doesn't just walk around with an inability to be wrong and it has never been that way.
>>
>>4989619
It's not my fault your dogma is retarded.
And then you get a retarded pope who starts talking shit YOU don't like
>HE'S NO LONGER THE POPE REEEEEEEEE
But it doesn't work like that.
>>
>>4989623
Wrong. You have a poor understanding of Catholicism.
>>
>>4989624
Fucking theological double speak.
>He's infallible
>He's fallible
Pick one and stick with it.
>>
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>>4989613

What the fuck is wrong with this guy? is this what we get for electing a latin american?
>>
>>4989625
If you understand papal infallibility, you would realize its not retarded or even all that amazing. The supposed Catholics ITT are either brainlets or false-flaggers.
t. guy that had Catholic religion classes every year for 12 years.
>>
>>4989629
I want you to pick one answer
>1) He's infallible
>2) He's fallible
No explanations, no essays just 1 or 2.
>>
>>4989632
Consider it like a superpower he can 'turn on' at very rare times, he's infallible if he evokes Papal infallibility. Popes rarely ever invoke it though, and are explicit about it when they do.
>>
>>4989632
For an even simpler answer:
No, the Pope is not infallible. At very rare times, he is able to produce infallible teaching, and this is made explicit, but he is fallible any other time.
>>
>>4989635
>>4989640
So he's only infallible when he says he's infallible?
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>>4989632
You are in charge of your body, unless you have a mental condition that makes you unable to choose.
The president is in charge of the country, unless he has a mental condition, in which case power is taken away from him.

This is very well established in secular administrations around the world, and in human rights conventions, and also in tradition. If you are mentally ill, you can't choose for yourself.

Use the same logic for papal infallibility. Benedict XVI had brain degenerative disease. That is why he was removed from the psot, because he was unfit. He couldn't be infallible, and thus couldn't be pope. He wanted to write a book about it, but he can't write anymore. He is very ill. Don't quote him as if he is in control of his thoughts and can interpret God.
>>
>>4989644
Yes. Do you think you've caught me out there or that there's some flaw in the dogma?
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>>4989645
You are wrong, and your fervour is misplaced. You are actively espousing a view of papal infallibility that goes against Catholic teaching. The Pope is God's representative on Earth, he is not an actual God who can never be wrong. To say he is shows a poor understanding of Catholicism based more on pop stereotrypes than Catholic teaching.
>>
>>4989635
The doctrine of papal infallibility is a heresy because that belongs only to God. To err is human sayeth the proverb and that includes popes.
>>
>>4989645
>>4989652
>>4989647
You guys can't even decide if he's infallible or not. One dude says he is, the other says he isn't, another
>only when he says he is
Cmon guys.
Only God is infallible.
Renounce your heresy.
>>
>>4989652
God speaks to the pope. If the pope is a healthy man in full possession of his faculties, he will speak the word of God to the rest of Christianity. However, if the pope has brain problems, he can't interpret the word of God, just like he can't interpret many things. Such a person would be unfit to be a lawyer, or a physician, or drive a car, and certainly be unfit to give us God's word. Thats why he was fired.
>>
>>4989654
And the Pope can indeed err, as I have been saying. He can also, at very rare times, produce infallible teachings, a gift from God given his position as his representative on Earth.
>>
>>4989658
You have brain problems, you retarded heretic. Look up Catholic teaching on the matter rather than relying on your schizophrenia to tell you how things work.
>>4989656
Because two people arguing about it on 4chan proves that there's definitely no consensus at all in the Catholic Church, right? God forbid you do a simple search and educate yourself. I would never want to join the church of such a brainlet. I'm also laughing at the irony of telling me to join one of the hundreds of squabbling and arguing protestant splinter sects, because there's too much conflict in Catholicism.
>>
How exactly do Catholics defend this?

Google "Pope Audience Hall". Literally a building designed to look like the head of a snake, with Jesus himself made to have the head of a snake as well, surrounded by demons.

I'm researching Christian denominations and this just really stood out to me.
>>
>>4989666
SEETHING
>>
>>4989673
I accept your concession :)
>>
I don't see the problem. What makes the pope's statement any less correct than something that a bunch of people wrote a few thousand years ago when in both examples, we're talking about religion, i.e. a human construct? If anything, the pope telling the kid that his dad is in Heaven because he was a good guy rather than saying he went to Hell because he didn't believe in the concept of a higher power is preferable since it makes the child feel better and that's what religion is all about.
>>
>>4989689
Not sure if parody.
>>
>>4989689
>i am not a catholic and i don't get it

We get it.
>>
>>4989719
I live around cultural Catholics so I'm familiar with the sane religious worldview, Francis' pragmatic approach seems like the norm
>>
>>4989721
>most people calling themselves catholics aren't actual believers

Yes.
>>
>>4989728
It's the 21st century, you can't exactly expect people to fully trust some old tales
>>
>>4984840
>>4984872
Fucking spot on. I don't get how /his/ Catholics treat Catholicism as some type of Crusade generator and are "nationalistic" about it. They think Pope Francis is a heretic for being forgiving like God but like the Popes that were cruel and waged war on innocent people.

Christianity isn't about politics, it's a religion about being moral and kind to the people you interact with.
>>
>>4985378
/thread
>>
>>4989850
Because the /his/ christian community and the /pol/ christian community are like water and oil.

Look at this thread >>>/pol/178438820
In general though, most Christians are "Christian" out of traditionalism, they are only doing what they consider to be traditional for right-wing reasons. God isn't love for them. He's a warlord from the past glories.
>>
>>4985190
And that's a good thing
>>
>>4984792
Francis isn't Christian and he needs to be removed
>>
>>4989632
Popes are fallible, but capable in very rare circumstances of making infallible statements.
Were the Bible's authors infallible and perfect, or is the Bible flawed?
>>
>>4989993
This is useless.
>"he made X infallible statement! its divine fact!"
>later turns out to be false or just inconvenient
>"oh well i guess he was fallible there"
>>
>>4985906
hhahahahahaaahhaa
jajajajajajajajajajaja
hueheuheuheeuhueheua
kekkekekekekekeke
>>
>>4989924
the parallels between islam and protestantism are amazing. both are decentralized, fanatic and aggresive.
>>
>>4989671
None of what you said is true




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