[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k] [s4s] [vip] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 99 posters in this thread.

05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
06/20/16New 4chan Banner Contest with a chance to win a 4chan Pass! See the contest page for details.
[Hide] [Show All]



IF YOU ARE A /BEG/INNER IN ART, please use this thread to post pieces for critique or ask for advice. We should not have to make new threads or post in the Drawthread with our fundamental exercises.

Feel free to post even the smallest exercise you have done to show you are still trying, do not give up, make someone proud.

RESIZE YOUR IMAGES TO ~1000 PIXELS:

#1)
>screenshot the image and post that instead

#2)
>change camera capture settings to something smaller

#3)
>send to computer and resize in MSPaint

→ →
There's a new (and cleaner) sticky in town! You can see it at:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98/edit#bookmark=id.15jx3pyuimvj

TRY TO BE MORE ACTIVE AND GIVE PEOPLE SOME FEEDBACK - many studies are left unreplied, which is a bit sad and can be quite demotivating for the people that try their best to improve, but are left directionless.

PREVIOUS THREAD:
>>
ESSENTIALS:

>https://warosu.org/ic/thread/3023643
Links to many art books including as Keys to Drawing (Dodson), Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain (Edwards), Perspective Made Easy (Norling), Color and Light (Gurney), The Vilppu Drawing Manual (Vilppu) and How to Draw (Robertson).

>http://ctrlpaint.com
A website dedicated to understanding the basics and process of digital painting, based in Adobe Photoshop. Library of over 200 free videos.

>http://quickposes.com
Free pose library to practice drawing the human figure (as well as a portrait library). Draw at your own pace or set a timer for quick gesture drawings.

>https://www.youtube.com/user/onairvideo
Croquis Cafe - Timed model poses.

>http://drawabox.com
Controversial yet helpful introductory course on the fundamentals of drawing with a focus on understanding the concept of form and thinking in a 3-dimensional mindset while you draw.

>Your local life drawing class
Life drawing is an indispensable tool in your art career. Do not be intimidated based on your skill level - there will always be someone worse than you and someone better than you. Use this opportunity to meet new artists for learning, critique, and growth.
>>
>>
File: 1496745464477.jpg (308 KB, 1024x683)
308 KB
308 KB JPG
>>
>>
>>
File: Veronica_small134[1].jpg (67 KB, 800x1200)
67 KB
67 KB JPG
>>
>>3170185
I live there and lemme tell you, its nowhere this aesthetic irl as in the photo, its plagued with tourists and tourist orientet shill artists that do speed portraits and caricatures.
>>
File: figure-2-1303873898.jpg (54 KB, 617x800)
54 KB
54 KB JPG
>>
File: portrait121017.png (1.13 MB, 929x1000)
1.13 MB
1.13 MB PNG
fuck me pls (with critique)
>>
>>3170193
Think proko fucks his bitches?
>>
>>3170217
WALL EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>3170212
she look like she hit a fat blunt haha
>>
>>3170212

Your best critique is the source image. Put it side by side.
>>
how do I into good silhouettes (thumbnailing and the like)?
at first I felt like it was an easy shortcut
but it's actually even harder than basic character doodling
>>
File: vnvb.jpg (78 KB, 587x1118)
78 KB
78 KB JPG
>>
>>3170304
any good books on hands?
>>
File: twilight_zone.png (198 KB, 540x411)
198 KB
198 KB PNG
Can I get some black and white pictures to work from?
>>
File: 10 10 17 third.png (508 KB, 656x1000)
508 KB
508 KB PNG
>>
File: IMG_20171012_150044_361.jpg (586 KB, 1440x1440)
586 KB
586 KB JPG
Opinions?
>>
File: ffuckbeg.png (158 KB, 388x642)
158 KB
158 KB PNG
>TFW you're gonna fuck off from /beg/ and onto bigger things soon
later fags.
>>
>>3170340
Choose any b&w movie from this list:
https://the.hitchcock.zone/wiki/1000_Frames_of_Hitchcock

It's great for practicing facial expressions too.
>>
Which mode prevents from opaque colors from stacking?
>>
>>3170354
>TFW you can't even into construction
>TFW you think making everything look vague means it looks better
>T F W that head
no
>>
File: ffsafafa.png (197 KB, 479x733)
197 KB
197 KB PNG
>>3170375
Whatever Mr. NGMI-senpai-san
>>
File: 1479844897019.jpg (102 KB, 746x500)
102 KB
102 KB JPG
>>3170375
>falling for bait

wew
>>
File: Untitled-11.jpg (662 KB, 2400x1805)
662 KB
662 KB JPG
how bad?
>>
File: 1498724561613.gif (836 KB, 500x451)
836 KB
836 KB GIF
Sometimes I can't get the mixer brush to blend. It'll just put down a solid color like it's the regular painting brush. Can I get a hand?
>>
>>3170412
Actually, can someone just re-explain the mechanics of blending in photoshop to me?
>>
How to girls chests in relation to breasts

Draw breasts over side of arms, or side of arms over breasts when at a front angle? How do I make the armpit area less fucking awkward?
>>
>>3170391
>bait
this isnt bait because i was this person once
>>
>>3170416
Here's a pro-tip, if you can rephrase your problems into a a simple question it is probably better to ask google instead.
>>
File: sdds.jpg (421 KB, 767x1000)
421 KB
421 KB JPG
The cast shadow from the tree branch on the left looks wrong but I can't wrap my head around how it should be going or work. And the tree branch itself looks pretty terrible, any advice?
>>
>>3170514
It looks like it's following the contour as opposed to being the shadow casted by the part sticking out.
>>
File: assd.jpg (443 KB, 767x1000)
443 KB
443 KB JPG
>>3170516
Yeah I just have no idea how to cast the shadow of the 2 branches sticking out, I'm unsure if they should wrap around the pillar or hit the ground?
>>
does mastering the full arm movement for drawing/painting minimize any stress you put on your hands?

wondering how easier on the hands art is compared to programming for things like carpal tunnel
>>
File: vooyk.png (521 KB, 1200x800)
521 KB
521 KB PNG
Is bad to just do random lines when I don't want to practice?
>>
>>3170561
made boxes instead
>>
is there anyone on youtube or wherever who's particularly good at drawing noses at different angles? it's the one facial feature i absolutely can't do right. i know i'm lost on understanding the anatomy because even tracing photos produces the same results.
>>
File: AW1.png (600 KB, 717x962)
600 KB
600 KB PNG
Im pretty sure that i'v improved greatly over last year. Still got lot to do, but I reach dead end. I don't know what should i working on right now. Would be appreciate for any help.
>>
File: nipple.png (35 KB, 600x372)
35 KB
35 KB PNG
how does this nipple look perspective wise?
>>
File: herco.png (3.66 MB, 1967x1562)
3.66 MB
3.66 MB PNG
Any really glaring issues or faults that I should work on the most?
>>
File: herco.png (1.49 MB, 1200x953)
1.49 MB
1.49 MB PNG
>>3170600
Sorry for not resizing!
>>
File: 1507879043589.png (609 KB, 549x953)
609 KB
609 KB PNG
i could be wrong but i think your mistakes are excusable as they the body 'could' be in the position you drew it as. but as a copy is off the point where theres problems with your construction. for example it should be pretty obvious that the refs shoulders are straight across despite the leaning while youres are drawn with a tilt
>>
File: wip.jpg (181 KB, 521x848)
181 KB
181 KB JPG
>>3170601
It's nice, but what exactly are you hoping to learn from this study?
Art is about communicating an idea, and what this drawing tells me is your idea about this dude is that he has lots of shiny muscles and details on his body.

Fair enough if that's what you think, but imho there are much more important parts to pay attention to and communicate to your audience, for example the contrapposto between his waist and shoulders, the plane change from front to side on his torso or the fact that his entire left side is flexed and his entire right side is relaxed, which nicely plays against one another.
It might sound like a meme advice, but it comes down to 'analyze, don't copy.'
>>
>>3170275
idk i think she's just baltic
>>
>>3170395
>that chicken scratch
Stop drawing only from your wrist and fingers, retard. Use your elbow and shoulders
>>
File: quick study.png (1.11 MB, 1200x903)
1.11 MB
1.11 MB PNG
>>3170395
>>3170395
why don't you use bigger brushes anon? a bunch of chicken scratch lines for shading looks bad, especially on the chest. looks like hair a bit

you need to work more on your accuracy, but you got pretty close in some areas

start putting down large areas of value, easy to find the darkest areas so get those in, start filling in the mid tones and highlights will be last
>>
>>3170630
How did you draw that so fast? There were 9 minutes between my post (>>3170626) and yours, and it was enough for you to check the thread, look at anon's drawing, give it a critique, copy the image onto your software and draw it.
>>
>>3170626
>implying chicken scratching is a consequence from drawing with wrist and fingers
>implying drawing from shoulder is the best option
>youre the retard
>>
>>3170640
I spent a couple hours on it while watching tv, def not 9 minutes
>>
File: Clipboard01.png (217 KB, 694x439)
217 KB
217 KB PNG
Why my drawing does not even remotely look like Macron?
>>
>>3170283
what about draughtsmanship critique?
>>
>>3170649
the overall shape of the head is wrong

sargent once said something like if you get the shape of the head right, the features you can be a bit loose on
>>
>>3170587
Just keep working on your anatomy and rendering, and as you feel more comfortable you'll dare to take riskier more complex compositions and poses to challenge yourself.
>>
>>3170649
You didn't make him look like enough of a faggot,
>>
>>3170526
right now those branches look like theyre pointing directly toward the light source so there would be no shadow cast except for the slight shadow it casts on itself. if you want those cast shadows that are 'perpendicular' to the branches, they need to actually be perpendicular, which means the those branches need to point towards the viewer.
>>
>>3170774
I see, then since that's the case, is there anything I should do to improve the current cast shadow I have going on there for the entire branch? Is it too small, should I expand it or something?
>>
crits on this please >>3168633
>>
how the fuck do i make a hexagon in perspective? this shit is trying me nuts. i havent used the maths taught in school for years.
>>
File: day4.png (148 KB, 700x432)
148 KB
148 KB PNG
I wasted basically all my teens drawing garbage and now I'm trying redeem myself?? I need guidance on where to go from here and what to work on though because Im lost ):
>>
>>3170779
honestly i like it as is. its a needless detail that doesnt really make anything more or less correct. i wouldnt have even noticed any issues with the shadows if you didnt mention you wanted specifically to have the shadows cast like that. but if you must have those shadows youll need to forshortened the branches. if not just keep it as is. right now i dont really see anything wrong with the shadows, everything is consisent and acurate. only thing id fix is that the vertical part of the stairs should be lighter on the side thats closer to the light source and darker towards the viewer. thats it though
>>
File: hexagon.jpg (62 KB, 772x805)
62 KB
62 KB JPG
>>3170788
fucking help
how do i do this
>>
>>3170791
great thanks, I'll work on those stairs, I feel like my light source is very inconsistent and at a weird angle.
>>
>>3170789
this looks like "canidraw"anon
>>
>>3170807
dont be mean
>>
>>3170630
what did you use to learn to draw value paintings. I don't think I'm doing it right
>>
>>3170807
Noo I didnt mean it to come off that way. I was just excited to share progress. Sry!
>>
>>3170799
theres no such thing as a 'weird angle' in lighting. you can position subject and light sources in any way you want. the issue is being comfortable with the context youre working in and studying to gain knowledge about light
>>
>>3170813
I mean your pictures. "can i draw asian people. I've been struggling for weeks but now I think I've finally done it"
>>
File: dsfgdsfg.jpg (215 KB, 744x1052)
215 KB
215 KB JPG
how am i doing?
does the latissmus dorsi go under the or over the 2 spine muscles?
>>
File: Hexaflop.jpg (295 KB, 1920x1200)
295 KB
295 KB JPG
>>3170793
You can't, as far as I'm aware. At least not like you would a cube or a triangular which has a 2D shape representation take all sides of it's plane

a 3D Hexagon is what's knows as a icosahedron, which has (if i'm not mistaken) 20 sides to it.

Another option is a hexagon Prism, though i'm pretty sure that is not what you are aiming at.
>>
>>3170841
it goes from your wrists to your ankles, like a flying squirel
>>
>>3170846
i was actually going for a hexagonal prism but first step is just hexagon on a plane in perspective. i ended up eyeballing it with measurements as close as possible btw.
>>
>>3170850
Could you show me what you did? I'm interested,
>>
File: hexagonal.jpg (681 KB, 2510x3644)
681 KB
681 KB JPG
>>3170851
messy but yeah. look at the bottom and see that i just take "a bit outside of the quarterway point" as the marker for when to end the center face. as precise as i can get as a brainlet
>>
File: ez.jpg (149 KB, 1268x800)
149 KB
149 KB JPG
>>3170793
>>3170846
>>3170853
Jesus christ senpai
All you need to do is find the 3 vanishing points for each angle of the hexagon and then it becomes as simple as connecting dots.
>>
>>3170856
show full lines pls also how did you get the blue one?
>>
File: ez2.jpg (212 KB, 1268x800)
212 KB
212 KB JPG
>>3170862
That's literally all the lines I used, I measured the angles by rotating my canvas.
>>
File: 16.png (174 KB, 915x879)
174 KB
174 KB PNG
>>3170865
LOOMIS DIDNT TEACH THIS METHOD
FUCKING MEMES
>>
File: 1466693996433.png (41 KB, 156x129)
41 KB
41 KB PNG
>>3170867
https://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html
This is where all the cool kids go to learn perspective.
>>
File: bfgbbbggdndhmbn,.jpg (452 KB, 977x965)
452 KB
452 KB JPG
>>3170841
from imagination.
am i doing this right?
>>
>>3170896
Do the same exact thing only use a reference with a figure and break it down as you've done here. Then compare it.
>>
Anyone here willing to give some tips to a beginner using watercolors?

I'm starting a blog/website, and I need thumbnail pictures to accompany my poems and short stories. I don't want to use stock photos, so I'm going to use original artwork. I'm not really worried about technique, though, since I'm just going to lay down random streaks, but I do need some general advice.

Anything will help.
>>
File: dbfsf.png (200 KB, 773x1139)
200 KB
200 KB PNG
>>
>>3170867
Because loomis is extraordinarily shit for in depth learning.
I'm almost certain its being recommended to stop newbies from improving because they'll get stuck on his ramblings and weird logic.
>>
>>3170904
cute face
>>
>>3170910
Thanks man
>>
>>3170896
If you're trying to construct a silent hill monster from your mind you're doing it right.
Otherwise delete it and try again, I can already tell you spent way too much time on this but on the other hand not enough.
It looks like you rushed the initial gesture and then just slapped some confused anatomy on it.

Do yourself a favor and do it over and this time SLOW and with method. You're getting ahead of yourself and that always leads to frustration.
>>
>>3170185
How do you even start drawing this without fucking up?
>>
>>3170961
Just block in the shapes and go from there.
>>
>>3170963
i mean for traditional. is this possible with goauche i was considering getting some
>>
File: 20171013_192522.jpg (1.67 MB, 2592x1944)
1.67 MB
1.67 MB JPG
Hello I got into watercolour this week and wondering how could I improve I really love the idea of using water as a medium. Ive watched a few videos on watercolour and they make it look so easy. I need help as im not sure what i am doing wrong
>>
I just started Keys to Drawing and the problem I'm having is I keep doing the exercises in like 1/3rd of the time it says I should take. any tips?
>>
>>3170972
get a waterproof black ink pen and do the watercolour over it. its a million times easier and produces better results. with that you can be more loose and have alot of fun
>>
How do I stop drawing like a caveman
>>
File: gazebo.png (236 KB, 1000x877)
236 KB
236 KB PNG
how do i finish something like this?
(squiggles at the bottom are accidents on the wrong layer)
>>
File: 16_2.png (420 KB, 638x804)
420 KB
420 KB PNG
Protip: take screenshots when you're watching shows, you will end up with a lot of good images to use as ref
>>
>>3171031
Oh shit anon you got a blog? Your stuff is exactly what im pursuing right now
>>
File: fhtr6u6utr.png (331 KB, 1368x2400)
331 KB
331 KB PNG
>>3170904
>>
>>3171037
Nah, I don't have enough finished pieces for that, but thanks!
>>
>>3170867

>only learning from loomis

Seriously. There's TONS of free resources out there. DO EVERYTHING! TRY EVERYTHING! Eventually your brain will have enough information to filter out stuff that aren't needed.
>>
>>3171031
what did you use to learn how to paint like this?
like colour books and how to make the finished painting in photoshop
>>
>>3171046
nah man, loomis or yoomis out
>>
>>3171055
I only read a few books about art critique, most of my knowledge is from observation and tutorials.

From my experience so far, just as >>3170283 said, it's important to compare your work to the original. You WILL improve if you make the effort to understand why a certain part doesn't look right. When you identify what's wrong, go and search for other artists' answers to those problems. E.g. I find that the way I rendered hair near the roots is bad, so I will look for paintings of ppl where you can see their parting and keep in mind how others 'solved' it and next time I will pay more attention to this detail.

Observation is key! Look at the shapes around you, in photos and in drawings, notice irl the way that a nose looks different from one angle to another, how a tone shifts from light to dark. Traditional drawing/painting from life helps a lot with this.

Also, in digital, don't be afraid to use liquify and adjustment layers (especially brightness/contrast and color balance) if at some point you figure you've strayed from the original's proportions/colors.
>>
File: 484843655.jpg (68 KB, 512x384)
68 KB
68 KB JPG
>>3171056

ok
>>
>>3170587
I would suggest looking into color theory. The way you render right now is quite unrealistic,first because there is no color variation for the same surface (like more greenish and reddish tones for some skin areas, more colorful reflections in the armour), and also in the way that shadows aren't just a darker shade of the base color, but also shifted to a warmer/colder tone. The same applies to highlights.
Try experimenting with a warm or cold light for the next subject.
Another area you might want to work on next is drawing backgrounds and attempting to place figures in an environment.
>>
File: pleaseHelp.jpg (1.55 MB, 2040x1491)
1.55 MB
1.55 MB JPG
Please help me. I know that just about everything is wrong here.

Also I had to anime stylize her face because it was literally too fucking ugly when I tried to draw her face realistically.
>>
How do I get better at body proportions? What book or resource specifically will help with that
>>
>>3171108
this is disgusting
use perspective at least and dont smudge with finger.
>>
>>3171110
LOOMIS
O I
O M
M O
I O
SIMOOL
>>
>>3171112
what do you mean by "use perspective"
>>
>>3171108
Fucking stop with the anime bullshit. You suck dude. Try to draw normal first.
>>
>>3171117
Isn't that just a meme?
>>
>>3171122
It was worse normal
>>
>>3171108
Don't be scared of failure and meanies on /ic/, aim to draw the face too. Accept that you're a newbie and let the the face be as ugly as it needs to, you will learn from it and you won't get into the habit of taking shortcuts (we all do it sometimes but it's bad).

Most striking to me in your drawing is her huge ribcage and big hands.

The paper is kind of smudged and it looks like you've been fighting for a while with it so if I were you I would put it away and do a new one of the same subject. Tip: try to be a little more confident and quick (I personally think 4 x 15 min drawings are better than 1 x 60 min drawing for example, not sure how long you spent) and don't forget to measure angles and distance
>>
File: redline mouse edition.png (1.71 MB, 1390x1016)
1.71 MB
1.71 MB PNG
>>3171108
done with a mouse, so not accurate at all, but it should show you, at least, what you're overlooking
>>
>>3171132
Thanks. What do you use to measure angles and distance, just intuition and experience? I'm trying to go through Figure Drawing for All It's Worth while also trying to draw figures like this on the side, hoping to kind of build up that intuition for shape and angles and distance, but obviously I'm a beginner
>>
>>3171141
not him, but pick up Keys to Drawing. It covers how to make measurements and draw "trapped shapes" to improve your accuracy. It's honestly a must for every beginner imo, the way it covers fundamentals in an easily digestible way
>>
>>3171141
I've neglected studies so I can't really say that I have a process there. Not sure how you're "really" supposed to do it, I personally just use my eyes.

I guess try Keys to Drawing as guy above said. Haven't read it myself but it supposedly teaches good basic concepts.
>>
>>3171136
your redline makes it look like a poopy is coming out hahahaha
>>
>>3171143
Yeah this book's very helpful. I'm kind of trying to go through both at the same time though because I want to skip to drawing bodies, but I guess there really are no shortcuts
>>
File: 1507934786392.jpg (333 KB, 728x1200)
333 KB
333 KB JPG
Kind of a dumb question but how do you know what colors to use for something like this? (That is, assuming the artist didn't just use the eyedrop tool from something else.) Is "color theory" what I'm looking for?
>>
File: zapenuus.jpg (580 KB, 2040x1491)
580 KB
580 KB JPG
>>3171108

Use the penis method...
>>
>>3171170
Wow, that's actually pretty good
>>
File: 1502475246391.jpg (84 KB, 700x487)
84 KB
84 KB JPG
Does anyone else just have little patience for materials outside of the classic pencil+sketchbook or digital tablets?
>>
>>3171165
>pick color close to what you want
>use color adjustment tools to mess with it until it works for you
>if you need a different shade of a color you're already using, start by sampling the existing color
>mix colors when needed

And yes, most artists build a palette of colors they like over time that they use to start with
>>
How do I stop drawing wrong?
>>
>>3171284
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs
>>
>>3171281
Is that supposed to be "modern art"? It looks like a shitposter spent 3 seconds in mspaint.
>>
Why are my drawings so flat.
>>
>>3171290
post them
>>
how is this?
also is it cheating to have the reference on the same canvas like this. and for the drawing space to be exactly the same as the image space? is it better or worse, improvement wise , to have them on different screens closer to irl
>>
>>3171292
I don't want to. Everything I draw is flat though.
>>
File: 1507926754736.png (1.5 MB, 1408x2496)
1.5 MB
1.5 MB PNG
>>3171039
>>
>>3171165
So can I draw something like this easily? Isn't anime style actually pretty easy to draw? Like can't I just look at a reference and then draw an anime girl, or do I have to study that meme loomis bullshit?
>>
>>3171342
Understanding construction, proportions and the various methods behind it as well as how to do those quickly and accurately will aid you tremendously in that endeavor.
>>
>>3171326
then you'll never get feedback that you need
>>
>>3171344
yeah but didn't those dumb jap animators learn by drawing nothing but anime?
>>
>>3171346
absolutely not, you'll see that most people who are good at stylized stuff are in fact just as good with realistic stuff
>>
>>3171351
ah okay. that's cool I guess. time to grind some loomis bullshit then. reeeeeeeeee
>>
>>3171346
I don't know about that man, but if you look at the portfolios of many prolific anime artists you'll see they have great stuff based off of reality.

https://www.artstation.com/krenz

Ultimately all drawings are symbol drawings of various complexity, so maybe it is possible. I'd imagine it would take much longer though.
>>
>>3170853
Wait. So let me get this straight.

You didn't actually want a 3D form of a hexagon, you just wanted a regular hexagon twisted in perspective while still having flat planes?

Well jesus fuck I misinterpreted hard.

On the other hand, how the hell did you have trouble with this? It's literally using a vanishing point and connecting dots like other anon said.

Hell, you can draw a regular Hexagon in photoshop or any art program and use the free transform to create your desired effect.

Man I feel stupid for not getting what you meant earlier.

It's a really silly issue anon.
>>
>>3171290
draw from life
>https://artprof.org/professional-development/drawing-from-life/
>>
How should your drawing tablet be set up? Flat on your table? Inclined? Having trouble finding a comfortable position.
>>
File: 6WzEBGJ[1].gif (1.98 MB, 500x281)
1.98 MB
1.98 MB GIF
>>3171346
No.
>>
>>3171361

Yes.
>>
File: Howcanthisbe.jpg (255 KB, 788x1154)
255 KB
255 KB JPG
>>3171170
> it actually works

N-NAAAAAANI?!?!
>>
>>3170435
The only way the side of the arms would go over the breasts is if the woman was intentionally placing her arms over them. Otherwise, if they're in a normal position, the breasts will go over the arms, though the size will influence how much it will go over. I'd suggest studying some pictures to get a better idea.

And which part of the armpit is giving you trouble?
>>
>>3171376
I believe you'll find that most things in nature are phallic
>>
>>3171376
no it doesn't
>>
>>3170601

I think a greater range of values would benefit your drawing greatly. The hair and beard could definitely use some darker values, but the rest of the body could benefit from the darker values as well (e.g. the armpits, under the head, the left side of the upper pelvis area, the area around the penis, and the knees and feet). Highlights would also help. I also think your outlines are too dark, and they take away from the realism of the drawing. since they just look like shadows at the edges of surfaces. Generally speaking, shadows won't usually go to the very edge of their surface. They tend to get a bit lighter on the edge.
>>
File: painting practice.jpg (144 KB, 806x976)
144 KB
144 KB JPG
Never painted before but now I want to start. I haven't looked through or tried the tutorials from ctrlpaint yet but I'll get around to it. I'll try to update my progress here but I'm making no promises. I'm painting this from imagination and the pose or gesture isn't the focus point.


>>3171170
>>3171376
wtf? Is are these the lessons people are learning on /ic/ ? Is that useful at all? Somehow, I don't think so...
>>
>>3170968
i'd begin with watering down the gouache for the block in so i can get the big desaturated bg shapes and then go more opaque and detailed as i come closer to the foreground. as long as you get the bg lighter and less saturated than the road/statues, you should be good
>>
>>3170810
trial and error. find the value range of the subject, what's the darkest dark and the lightest light (100% black and 100% white is pretty rare, btw), and then it's just a matter of comparing values

one of the exercises I do is choosing a value that I think is close as possible and then actually color picking that area to see how close or far my own choice was, over time you get better at eyeballing the values
>>
>>3170902
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUid25okReo&list=PL2Gy7ohbeND7gmc4-GDDqOFu9SPlcwRj3
>>
>>3170212
the rendering is pretty pleasant to me but the eyes look too small. can't make much critique without the ref
>>
File: 1496261462696.png (671 KB, 836x1290)
671 KB
671 KB PNG
insightful
>>
>trying to draw hands
Why did we have to be born with hands??!!!
>>
File: IMG_0777.jpg (1.46 MB, 4032x3024)
1.46 MB
1.46 MB JPG
I've spent a couple days practicing gestures. I've been studying from the Vilpu manual and proko.

One problem I have with is time. Although these drawings are simple, they took a minute and a half to be done.

Another is exaggeration. I don't think the poses are dynamic and focus too much on contour. That's probably why they're sketchy.

Also, I sill feel overwhelmed as a beginner. I want to study construction, anatomy, color consistently but end up focusing on one study a day. There's just too much to work with. When is it appropriate to do life drawing and when should I do something else?

These are the questions I have for now. I would really appreciate any help
>>
I read the sticky and keys to drawing two months ago and still can't do anything.
>>
>>3171121
read "figure drawing for all it's worth"
>>
There a million figure drawing books out there... which ones should I start with as a beginner?

Figure Drawing for all it's worth (Loomis)

Figure Drawing Design and Invention (Michael Hampton)

Proko

Vilppu Drawing Manual

etc. (suggestions)

and how often should I switch between practicing anatomy and figure drawing? They go together in some way
>>
File: 1488148112631.png (61 KB, 826x99)
61 KB
61 KB PNG
Guess I should just quit now
>>
>>3171442
did you do the exercises and practiced every day right?
>can't do anything
post work and what you want to achieve
>>
>>3171446
How to Draw Anime & Game Characters
>>
File: Capture.png (221 KB, 664x850)
221 KB
221 KB PNG
>>3171447
Do you know what this is anon?
>>
>>3171448
Waifus
>>
>>3171457
Sorry, I only recognize high art. You know, stuff painted with bodily fluids.
>>
File: Capture.png (1.44 MB, 733x886)
1.44 MB
1.44 MB PNG
>>3171462
>>
>>3171455
Does the exaggerated anatomy/designs really help? Or will they be detrimental to my basic understanding?

Elaborate?
>>
>>3171465
Anime is the superior style and only through drawing anime will you achieve perfection in your craft.
>>
>>3171467
Can I please have a serious response?
>>
>>3171464
If you're going to reference off other artists at least pick the ones that have good draftsmanship.
>>
>>3171469
All the jobs are in anime.
>>
>>3171461
you need to understand form, then move on to gesture and figure drawing
>>3171465
the resources you listed are good, and you can always complement the information of the book with proko or vilppu videos
>>
>>3171388
I can't seem to properly measure how bumpy they should be or how much distance there should be between the armpit and the top shoulder. I think I draw the beginning of the arm too far up and I have no rules.
>>
>>3171477
How do I understand form
>>
>>3171477
Alright thanks!
>>
>>3171473
Whatever retard. The point wasn't anything other than to point out that being able to draw straight lines is a meme that newbies take too seriously.
>>
>>3171482
that depends
I generally try to simplify objects to basic 3D forms (cubes, cilinders, etc) and then draw them from different angles.
I think drawabox explains this in a simple way
>>
>>3171488
Yeah but then what
>>
File: 81and1.png (16 KB, 1700x2200)
16 KB
16 KB PNG
>>3171481
Here's a twenty second pic of how I normally end up drawing. I have no understanding of how to properly align the shoulders with the main body and how to keep them from being this barely connected bullshit.

Also with the hourglass figure of women, keeping their arms straight down gives this retarded unnatural gap too (I know I didn't really divide the torso from the upper chest here, though that's not really the point and something else I'm trying to work on as a whole other thing. Guide me please.
>>
>>3171496
Keep drawing, keep trying to understand proportions. Nigger. Try using piping to understand relations. Lastly don't use a 20 second drawing as a basis for anything, you should be spending much more time as a newbie trying to shove into your head relationships.
>>
>>3170193
Why is she not eating? She seems weak at shoulders.
>>
File: IMG_20171013_223429.jpg (254 KB, 883x958)
254 KB
254 KB JPG
Good/Bad/Average?
>>
File: knight.jpg (77 KB, 641x899)
77 KB
77 KB JPG
This is my first attempt at digital painting, how am I doing?
>>
File: 1507566954063.png (324 KB, 634x857)
324 KB
324 KB PNG
>>3171571
>>
Should I read head and hands or figure drawing for all it's worth first.
>>
>>3171482
draw from life, isn't that what keys is? Or do some bargue plates, after you train your eye and brain like this you will see far more information when you observe a figure or copy an art.
>>
>>3171587
You got a link for those bargue things
>>
>>3171589
https://imgur.com/a/sfN8p
>>
>>3171606
So what should I do while trying to draw these
>>
File: fgsdfgdsf.jpg (188 KB, 2400x1051)
188 KB
188 KB JPG
>>3171321
>>
>>3171609
lol idk man, try to draw and render them as accurately as possible? figure out how the forms relate to the lights and shadows so that you can apply that to other projects in the future?

i'm sure the actual bargue course/book where the plates came from have more instruction but I haven't read it.

look up The Da Vinci Initiative on youtube

spam detection is being a cunt or else i'd link you to the bargue course itself
>>
>>3171424
>shitty youtube "how to draw x" videos
these are really shallow.just take the time to learn yourself and it will be alot more beneficial to you
>>
>>3171571
Good depth, good color

>>3171552
Great job capturing the motion/character of the gesture. Lines need to be better defined, shading is very rough which could be improved but they're alright tho

>>3170789
The left face doesn't have convincing human proportions, the eyes are too close together and the cheeks are quite long (although not unbelievably so) As for the right your tones give quite a convincing depth, but they could be improved to get more realism, experiment with blending too. Keep doing some more portraits and try some with wrinkles and focus on the values, you're doing a good job.

>>3170649
The lines, first of all, aren't well defined. If you are gonna use such lines then it's just to sketch the character of the lines (if that makes sense) His right cheek doesn't go far down enough, his left jaw goes too far down, his left cheek is wrong you're not portraying it's shape right, the smile lines are misplaced, his eyes are tilted wrong. Try working a bit closer. The human eye is very sensitive to detail in faces and hands. It's a decent face you've drawn but to catch the character of a face you've got to go deep and capture all the angles and shapes.

>>3170587
Shapes are pretty good. You need to improve the depth. The shading is where you need to work. There are many places where the shadows are too dark for example the chestplate. The lighting isn't consistent with the shape. You should keep in mind to save the darkest shades for where they're needed, you seem to be using it for pretty much every shaded shape. Also less black and more darker tones.
>>
>>3171012
what steps do i need to think about taking to finish something like this?
>>
>>3171012
how do i go about finishing this?
>>
>>3171012
anyone know how to make this look finished?
>>
>>3171624
>>3171625
if you dont like it then how about responding the first time.
>>
>>3171012
how to finish this I'm really struggling?!
>>
>>3170178
Am I supposed to draw all the skulls in the skull section of the jeff watts drawing course?
Because shit is getting boring and tedious desu and I think that I know what a skull looks like by now.
>>
>>3171439
> draw a shape
> then draw some lines
> then draw more shapes around those lines
> then draw the rest of the fucking drawing.
>>
File: nippbutt.png (227 KB, 636x1000)
227 KB
227 KB PNG
>>3171108
nice ref! Some tips
Compare angles, they are the easiest to eye. What is aligned with what (tip of left foot is aligned with the heel of right'). Negative space helps too. Imaginary lines (left calf to left arm) Length and distance are harder
>>
File: howtonotdothat.png (2.68 MB, 1920x2670)
2.68 MB
2.68 MB PNG
>>3171108
so copious typos and probably a lot of shit that doesnt make sense but Uhhh i hope this can help someone.

By drawing without measuring you are relying on skills you haven't formed yet. The more you make mistakes, measure, then fix them, the more you can see where you are misinterpreting information, and the easier it will get. its really frustrating and arduous at first but its a hurdle you have to get over. if you can break down a subject into its simplest forms, (ie. lines, dots, cubes, etc) you can draw anything. now go and practice my children.
>>
File: twd.jpg (159 KB, 720x1280)
159 KB
159 KB JPG
Just finished Keys to Drawing.

What is the next logical step? Fun with a Pencil?

Also, critique pls
>>
>>3170212
Left eye is completely out of place. Remember that the pupils align with the corners of the mouth and that distance between both eyes is usually as big as an eye

The pencilwork is pretty sexy
>>
File: Untitled-185.png (1.53 MB, 3000x2100)
1.53 MB
1.53 MB PNG
>>
can someone tell me which size of canvas is the best for drawing in paint tool sai?
>>
>>3171822

It doesn't matter really but at least an a4 sized piece of paper. You don't want it to be too blurry. son of a bitch my space key is losing its hold that's what I get for buying cheapo keyboards.
>>
File: sgsrfgsdsrfgd.png (216 KB, 917x1933)
216 KB
216 KB PNG
>>3170904
>>
So i'm taking some courses on stuff like figure drawing, where you learn proper construction and stuff like gesture and dynamism. If you want to get good afterwards at drawing various styles. What are your options? I heard if you want to get a job in comics or animation, its important to be able to draw various styles so you can draw other peoples characters. Should I just try drawing disney or marvel characters from referance to practice?
>>
>>3171851
Blog?
>>
>tfw when you know drawing from life is 10x better than drawing from photos but you dont want to leave your computer chair
>>
>>3171711
Wow, thank you for this detailed info graphic. You deserve a (You)
>>
File: 378.jpg (137 KB, 1920x1080)
137 KB
137 KB JPG
Here's the last full traditional piece I did, tell me what I did wrong
>>
File: hijacked.png (112 KB, 743x809)
112 KB
112 KB PNG
>>3171874
yw, now go get those gains!

>>3171869
Bro put a dang apple on your desk
>>
File: hmmmmm.png (349 KB, 693x877)
349 KB
349 KB PNG
wow guess i can draw hands now

that simple, is it?

gosh thanks loomis
>>
>>3171899
Very bad. Go back and study it again until you're good.
>>
>>3171899
That is just a quick sheet to reference, you aren't actually suppose to learn from it you little bitch.

You learn by putting in work and drawing studies which you won't do because you are lazy.
>>
>>3171734
Figure drawing for all it's worth, or the one about hands and heads
>>
>>3171903
>recommending advanced books to a beginner
trainedwrongasajoke.jpg
>>
>>3171909
Would you considering Michael Hampton's book advanced? I feel half-retarded when I'm reading Loomis' books, but feel like everything comes to me more naturally with Hampton's.
>>
friendly reminder that if you can't freehand a perfect circle on your first attempt you might as well just quit right now
>>
>>3171926
I started fun with a pencil and I'm just doing the exercises. The text is a boring and hard to understand mess
>>
>>3171909
How are they advanced? Especially hands and heads, those are some pretty basic things
>>
>>3171108
this guy posts the most low effort trash and gets a million critiques , and everyone ignores me and my beautiful drawing >>3171012
:(((((
>>
>>3171992
because yours is unironically worse
>>
>>3171012
finish drawing the background you stupid mong
>>
>>3171464
where do I learn how to paint like this in digital art? Is "rendering" the term I'm looking for? Should I study that?
>>
>>3172002
>because yours is unironically worse
you take that back! you don't know art! just you see when its finished! you'll see, oh boy you'll see alright!!
>>
File: 385.jpg (117 KB, 900x900)
117 KB
117 KB JPG
>>3172007
I think so but I can't draw like that so idk

any tips for painting?
>>
>>3172004
how
>>
>>3172004
hurry up I don't have all day... >>>:((((
>>
>>3172004
pls, every second my masterpiece is not finished eats at my soul
>>
>>3172020
>>3172022
>>3172023
You just need to s
>>
File: 1504692089441.jpg (65 KB, 1600x533)
65 KB
65 KB JPG
>>
this is the worst fucking meme
how will i ever post my shit without retards shitting up the thread with these posts
>>
>>3172048
Heres the solution : dont post shit, post something like this masterpiece >>3171012
>>
>>3172054
but that's bad though
>>
>>3170185
Prague wasn't as comfy as this when I went there..
>>
I've been wanting to follow Proko's anatomy course, and this is the first video in the playlist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP--30V8ZA4&list=PLtG4P3lq8RHFBeVaruf2JjyQmZJH4__Zv&index=2

The thing I'm wondering is if he's expecting me to already know these muscles.
Should I ditch this and go back to studying the muscles in-depth until I know them, then come back?
>>
File: painting practice.jpg (254 KB, 806x976)
254 KB
254 KB JPG
>>3171405
This ones a failure, I'll scrap it here. I think I've learned some things though. Like even having a minimal background will give clues as to your light source and if the saturation and brightness of the hues are too similar then the image will look flat. Ctrlpaint was kinda annoying because I need to see a video that used something like CSP or Sai not Photoshop because photoshop is not meant for painting, it's meant for photo manipulation. He uses a different technique for changing saturation on a hue that involved two layers, the eye dropper tool and changing opacity on the upper layer before sending its contents to the bottom layer. It seems that he couldn't just slap two colors down and blending them.

>>3172012
are you painting this on one layer? It looks pretty decent especially as a thumbnail. I don't got tips for you. I'm guessing this one is also you?>>3172047
Are you just using the eye dropper tool to copy the same exact colors? I think I read somewhere that doing this was a common mistake that people make when digitally painting because there was much more variation in color even if the sky looks blue.

>>3171815
Those are nice colors for cartoons. do all the colors have high brightness and around mid level saturation?

>>3171571
Are you painting the shades like how you would hatch a shade in a drawing and is everything in one hue? And is the painting itself (not the pencil chicken scratch) on one layer?
>>
File: draw.jpg (52 KB, 836x594)
52 KB
52 KB JPG
i cant do this
trying to block in shapes like painters do
>>
File: draw.jpg (21 KB, 736x490)
21 KB
21 KB JPG
how to learn how light works
>>
File: 1247614786171.jpg (35 KB, 500x332)
35 KB
35 KB JPG
>>3171711
wow anon, you are a real trouper
>>
>>3171711

It's impossible for me to learn this way. I just eyeball shit until I get it.
>>
>>3172136
You're never gonna make it
>>
File: oldmanstudy1.jpg (1.26 MB, 3300x3401)
1.26 MB
1.26 MB JPG
>>3172158

I don't know. Seems to work so far... Maybe I'll get stuck further down the line. Who knows. If it works, it works. If it doesn't I'll just try a different way.
>>
How do I make the most out of drawing from life. I've read about other people getting really good at drawing what they see but then can't draw a single thing from their heads.
>>
>>3172168
I do it too eyeballin is the way to go
>>
>>3172168
>Seems to work so far
either your proportions are fucked up (jaw look too long and hand too small) or I'm ngmi. Or both
Also post the reference, I want to draw it too
>>
File: 1464168677108.png (299 KB, 500x500)
299 KB
299 KB PNG
How do I draw the difference between fear and surprise? Also why are expressions so hard?
>>
File: dicaprioglobalwarming.jpg (226 KB, 800x600)
226 KB
226 KB JPG
How is this?
>>
>>3172248
Glaciers have been melting since the end of the last glaciation period some 15,000 years ago. North America used to be covered in ice. Has nothing to do with humans or global warming.
>>
File: Weldingphilosophers.jpg (233 KB, 600x800)
233 KB
233 KB JPG
>>3172249
But think about the polar bears!!!!!!!!
>>
>>3170630
so are you going to photobash yourself to fame?
>>
>>3172255
post work, crab
>>
>>3172260
You mean post something that actually takes effort?
>>
>>3172260
it does look like a photobash, faggot

textures look shit, the necklace looks like it was drawn by a retarded toddler, and some thing like the boobs and most measurements are absolutely perfect

"quick study"

how sad
>>
>>3172244
just make a surprised/scared face in the mirror and observe the differences you see? i'd say the major differences are the angle of the eyebrows, opening of the eyes (google the frontalis muscle), and maybe the eyelids.
also wouldn't hurt to just study the face anatomy a bit and see for yourself. gl anon
>>
File: steve huston.jpg (49 KB, 502x471)
49 KB
49 KB JPG
who makes the best videos?
>>
File: #faces.jpg (216 KB, 1100x1400)
216 KB
216 KB JPG
Didn't draw for a week and felt like I've lost something... Took a while to get back the feels...
>>
>>3172276
i hate looking in the mirror
>>
>>3172295
Nice are these from imagination? How do you do it
>>
>>3172023
Have you tried drawing the background? It doesn't have to be super detailed. The background shouldn't take away the focus from the gazebo.
And if you're wondering how then just do to the background like you did with the gazebo.
>>
>>3172087
Yeah everything is on one layer and yeah it's all one hue. Not sure what you mean by shade hatching though
>>
>>3172308
Not him, but how vivid can your imagination get?
How powerful is it currently?
Can you hold the form of a square in your mind for longer than 10 seconds? How about a cube?
When you do that there is no limit. You can envision faces, places, and other things, but not forever. Know your own limits and expand them with practicing.
>>
>>3171866
fuuka2rin on twitter, used to be sabakuhe but that nickname was a tragedy. I'm still trying to understand fundies, though.
>>
>>3172263
>>3172267
ngmi
>>
Draw nine hands a day. Although maybe all of them being left hand might be not a good thing.
>>
File: 0qKNtim.jpg (127 KB, 500x824)
127 KB
127 KB JPG
>>3170178
i made the head too small didn't i
>>
>>3172408
brian?
>>
Should my tablet be at an angle or something.
>>
>>3172410
no but this isn't the first time someone has thought i was him :/
>>
>>3172357
Stop giving advice when you are a pathetic photobasher. Try actually drawing some day you stupid crab.
>>
>>3172336
Also not him but from childhood I've had a very vivid imagination. But when try to translate the pictures in my head to paper it NEVER turns out right.
>>
>>3172408
you know i had to do it to em
>>
>>3171734
eyesockets are too close together
>>
>>3172290
Proko
>>
>>3172457
his video style is absolute cringe
>>
>>3172457
Proko is a bad meme.
>>
>>3172420
everyone would love to hear the advice of a blind and retarded ngmi like you instead i'm sure
>>
File: draw.jpg (141 KB, 1251x907)
141 KB
141 KB JPG
i cant draw anything without outright copying a photograph
>>
>>3172491
push through the cringe
>http://prrb.tumblr.com/post/30177790499/shrimp-method

Study anatomy/ how to break it down into simple forms
>>
>>3171447
wha's this from

and i mean i practiced and am now able to draw reasonably straight lines so no, no quits
>>
File: draw.jpg (102 KB, 1216x870)
102 KB
102 KB JPG
>>3172498
i feel like i have to constantly study anatomy because i keep forgetting
>>
>>3172512
That is what you actually have to do. People like to try and shortcut being good at figure drawing/art but the only way to get good is to literally just put alot of time into it. learn it, forget it, reteach it to yourself. let time pass. keep doing it untill you've got it hard wired into your mind.
>>
>>3172498
where is that image from?
>>
File: draw.jpg (82 KB, 1166x886)
82 KB
82 KB JPG
wow i have a boner now
>>
>>3172552
Ramon Hurtado I believe, give him a google
>>
>>3171447
This isn't saying you need to be born with the innate ability to draw straight lines in order to draw, its saying one of the first things you should do is put serious effort into training yourself to draw straight lines properly.
>>
>>3172552
looks a lot like wil weston's stuff, it's worth checking him out if you like that sort of breakdown

https://www.instagram.com/willwestonstudio/
>>
File: 14 molly.png (582 KB, 1000x657)
582 KB
582 KB PNG
Crit please.
>>
>>3172585
>>3172566
yea it's will not ramon, they're both great though
>>
>>3172607
not an argument
>>
File: 17 10 15 naptime.png (86 KB, 660x660)
86 KB
86 KB PNG
>>3172612
Okay now can I have crit
>>
File: 1508049456784.jpg (1.92 MB, 4160x2340)
1.92 MB
1.92 MB JPG
So I started that loomis today.
What does /ic/ think?
>>
how do i learn construction and form? are there any good exercise books?
>>
>>3171496
The best way to help here would be to study some real life images of the female form and study the proportions and rhythms. Trying to break things down into 3D shapes that fit into each other would also help.

To answer your question though, the shoulder kinda slopes up to the head. How gradually it slopes depends on the person. I like to imagine a triangular shape to help me.

Also, the arms are never completely straight down; they have curves. I would suggest paying attention to the negative space around the arms to study.
>>
>>3172700
>construction
loomis
>form
watch moatdd/"mark's drawing tutorials", istebrak and then do their exercises
>>
>>3172707
>>construction
>loomis

thanks but which loomis book should i do?
>>
File: splatoon 2 drawing.jpg (1.68 MB, 2160x1000)
1.68 MB
1.68 MB JPG
Don't do as much drawing on my free-time as i would like to because I'm too lazy, but I'm taking my first art class (begginers freehand draw) as a senior in hs and figured i should start.

So I decided to do a little drawing of my Splatoon character. Pretty proud of how it turned out. This was also my first attempt at cross-hatching.
>>
File: bowie.jpg (53 KB, 1180x842)
53 KB
53 KB JPG
>>3172452
Coul be.
>>
>>>3172736
>>>3172736
>>>3172736

>>>3172736
>>>3172736
>>>3172736

>>>3172736
>>>3172736
>>>3172736
>>
>>3172276
im autistic so i cant make facial expressions (srs)
>>
>>3172491
Okay i see the effort of you trying to break things into shapes but like, breasts are not circles so stop doing that. they look like balloons.

>>3172554
Again, why are you drawing shit that isn't there? You are making a lot of guess work and probably being counter intuitive to your learning by doing so! if you want to draw a nude model and learn what a nude model looks like, then pick a nude reference next time! her breasts would Not look like that without the support of the bikini. You are just making up values/shapes rather than drawing whats there. To point out some of the discrepancies im talking about between the model and the drawing; her torso is too short, you added imaginary values on her boobs, and thigh. compare the lighting on her thigh to what is actually in the photo, you think there is supposed to be a highlight down the center of the thigh but you can clearly see its actually starting at the top below the bikini line, then shifting to the left, the shadow between her brows does not exist, the angle of her head is wrong, and the other thigh should have less showing. you have it about the size of the other thigh and extending past the stomach, when in the reference it is half the size of the other thigh, and does not come past the stomach. the curve between her breasts is wrong, like i said before, breasts are not circles. I see you're making an effort at studying the photo, but a lot of it looks like you're just guessing at what you think should be there rather than studying the photo.
>>
File: IMG_20171016_182814.jpg (250 KB, 1639x2048)
250 KB
250 KB JPG
Destroy my anus pls
>>
>>3175161
Thought I posted the resized version. My apologies




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.