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Just to be clear, everything except for tracing helps for developing skill, right?
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>>3601644
imo even tracing helps, it's just slower than thoughtful free handing.
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Putting pen to paper will help your hand-eye coordination, even when tracing. This is simply a mileage/muscle memory time sink every artist must do else they can't create the strokes they wish to. Someone who just spends a lot of time drawing will have really nice and readable lines, even if they don't bother to understand how to draw.

Anything beyond will take you actually thinking and responding to what you're doing. Ultimately, the better you are at processing problem solving the faster you will understand how to fix mistakes.
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you want to understand what you draw, period. If your thing is copying michelangelo's sketches pixel by pixel on aseprite while looking at a medical anatomy book, that's fine. Just don't *post* your plagiarism
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>>3601644
it all helps. It's all part of knowing how to art. If you don't have experience doing graphite transfers or tracing you are deficient. If you don't have experience doing grids you are deficient.

Not saying you need to build a series around it but IT ALL helps for "developing skill." Limiting your experience and self-censoring is always bad.
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>>3601736
that's just wrong, there are things which are helped by multiple methods, for example, a grid can help with measuring, however so can learning how to measure with your pencil, so can doing bargue's over and over. I wouldn't recommend someone did all three, if you're trying to only draw in the comfort of your own home, and you always want to spend the time drawing out a grid, that's fine. I would rather be able to draw anywhere with just a pencil and paper. some methods are better for some people, while others arent. doing all of them is a waste of time. doing/knowing EVERYTHING is inefficient.
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>>3601644
Yeah it will. Apparently some people have something against copying (without tracing)? When you're a new beginner most of what you do should be copying drawings that you'd like to imitate, it helps you build up muscle memory and coordination while also drawing something that doesn't look like complete shit.
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>>3601725
I'd say you can post your plagiarism.
As long as you don't lie about it being a tracing or whatever. An honest post is always allowed.

Also, will tracing help... well that's like everything: as long as you try to understand what you're doing and don't just do a mindless copy, yes, it'll help.
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>>3601736
>grids
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Nicolaïdes insists that complete beginners should spend hours and hours tracing models, to learn to observe. the final result is negligible, and you can even do the exercise with an inkless pen.
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>>3601752
>that's just wrong, there are things which are helped by multiple methods, for example, a grid can help with measuring
And framing, proportions, understanding space, executing your vision, doing blow ups, etc. Essentially all of the master baiters used grids on anything and everything bigger than a sketch.
> if you're trying to only draw in the comfort of your own home, and you always want to spend the time drawing out a grid, that's fine. I would rather be able to draw anywhere with just a pencil and paper
that's fine when you're working on PAPER. If you're working on a 20x24 or even goddamn bigger canvas you kind of need to know how to grid. Nobody really cares if you're good at hand drawing a fucking giant picture necessarily. Particularly when it immediately gets covered in dang paint anyway.
>doing/knowing EVERYTHING is inefficient.
THat's literally what stupid is.
>>3601846
>not using grids
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I can freehand any observational drawing and get it exactly right in a short amount of time. No grids, measuring, or construction (yuck) required
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>>3601962
No but that's exactly my point, if grids fit your art, go for it, but as you even said yourself, it's fine when I'm working with paper. It's just down to what you personally need to know.
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yeah just don't use grids
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>>3601644

Tracing helps but only if you use it as a learning tool and not depending on it. In fact anything if use as a guide or a learning tool is helpful.
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>>3601968
she a female body builder?
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>>3601968

That's garbage. Nice colors but shitty composition.
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>>3601644
>Just to be clear, everything except for tracing helps for developing skill, right?

Tracing is actually a great way to learn. You can prove it with an experiment: think of something you're terrible at drawing, then find 10 photos of that thing and trace them. Then try to draw that thing freehand.

Generally anyone who tells you that there are rules in art and things that only cheaters do is someone who is insecure about their own ability; they're trying to convince themselves as much as they are you. And they're only insecure because they're noobs.
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>>3602178
and dat anatomy
gorilla chest, manlet arms, young Neil Young face, and ... uhm ....

ass cheek seems to down the right leg.

wtf??
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>>3602108
u right. I still think practicing them and trying to do blowups and stuff is kind of part of going from being beginner to intermediate skill base. Turning a drawing into a "piece" or whatever.

Replication and technical drawing and doing "left brain" types of exorcisms ultimately helps in everything else you're doing.

>>3601968
>I can freehand any observational drawing and get it exactly right in a short amount of time.
the framing is kind of dog shit on that though. Legs weirdly cropped at the knee and a weird amount of head space. Honestly that painting is like a great example of WHY grids and foresight are a good thing to meme about every once in awhile. Looks like you started with the face, then did the torso too large and ran out of runway with the legs.

Not to mention... "exactly right?" Pretty dang tiny head, 1930's boxer body, clump hands, and popeye forearms to say that it's "exactly right." How many of her heads could fit inside her dang ribcage?

> No grids, measuring, or construction (yuck) required
Yeah but that's obvious in your work. Nobody would ever look at your shit and wonder if it's a trace or gridded composition. Goes without saying.
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>>3602223
>implying positive and negative space aren't more important than proportions when transferring a drawing to a canvas
>implying this is something other than art
>implying your retardation

you don't have to imply it so hard though, I'm starting to actually believe it's explicit instead
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>>3602223
oh and that one is one of my hand drawn guys. The framing was still a deliberate choice though.
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>>3602233
the difference between yours and >>3601968
is that I actually composed mine like that on purpose. you still just randomly make the sizes whatever because you only know how to use grids. JIMMY! gtfo of here
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>>3602231
>implying positive and negative space aren't more important than proportions when transferring a drawing to a canvas
whats really the point of all the headroom on the right side of the frame? Like if you want to >imply that positive and negative space are "more important" why post an example of a painting that at best is using space wrong on purpose?

Plus look at >>3602231 versus when you put it on canvas >>3601968

Assuming >>3602231 was the first drawing, then you FUCKED UP on the transfer to canvas and ended up with a thicc-ribbed pinhead. What the fuck does positive and negative space have to do with any of that? Like even if you want to say that use of space is more important than proportions, that painting is doing both of those things poorly. And then you brag about how it's hand done with no (yuck) construction, like NO SHIT bud.

>is that I actually composed mine like that on purpose.
Doesn't look like it. Looks like you got distracted on the tits and ended up with a small head and giant body. That's on purpose? Why?
>you still just randomly make the sizes whatever because you only know how to use grids.
>>3602223 isn't a grid. And the entire point of having them being justified on the bottom left is to make Stone seem squished and suffocated by an overbearing Jlaw. What is the point of >>3601968 having all the headroom while also being awkwardly cropped on the left?

Also I don't "randomly" do anything. I spend a lot of time goofing with framing and relative size on photoshop before I start fucking with canvasses.

pics related are hand painted on blank canvas on the left and hand drawn on the right. But they were still planned and executed to get the framing I wanted.
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>>3601644
sometime you could develop bad habit like me
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>>3602235
and I don't need grids. I just like them now. Kind of meditative.
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>>3602249
Jimmy I'll give you exactly one guess as to why I'm a better artist than you
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>>3602259
it's me chun the tiger

I really like this painting except for the bulge of her right side hips.

Overall brian is the better artist than jimmy because his use of color is impeccably harmonious and advanced, as well as form being alive and fully constructed. Jimmy appears to be making postmodern art which tries to make bad art look good. But I don't like that kind of art. Deskilling is a big part of it and it just means you make art that sucks and bloats it up with a lot of theories about art. I like Brian's much better.
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>>3602259
I'll give you infinity guesses about why it doesn't matter and I don't give a shit Bribri. You can piss in your mouth all day about how much better you think you are. Nobody gives a shit. You do this at fucking everyone unsolicited and it's weird. Projects a ton of insecurity.

Even if you were a "better artist" you act like a "worse person" so what's it fucking matter?

And >>3601968 still looks bad. It's not your best work. Cry more bb.
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What exactly is tracing? (i'm not a native english speaker)

Is it looking at a photo/drawing and copying it freehand through observation, or is it placing said photo/drawing beneath your paper and just drawing the lines seen on the lower layer on an upper one?
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>>3602278
Good guess, you almost got it
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>>3602275
>Jimmy appears to be making postmodern art which tries to make bad art look good. But I don't like that kind of art.
Post your intentionally ugly and distorted lady faces brah.
>>3602287
You probably don't "got it." You likely never will. Keep making your cringey incel vlogs on instagram when all you paint are uncomfortable nude models and what looks like random sketches of strangers you're peeping on and see how far you get m8. Keep bragging about how your obviously-hand-drawn aesthetic is obviously-hand-drawn.

Doesn't matter how technically proficient you are when you're boring and creepy and you act like a malignant niggardly faggot anonymously at everyone else that posts here. Is there anyone here that you haven't weirdly stalked and hassled and bitched at with your malignant autistic need to tell everyone that how great you think you are?

How come you don't think about what you're projecting about yourself when you do this? Why do you think you'll become successful when you go out of your way to sell yourself as a buttblasted malignant loser with a million bones to pick?

You can be better than me at painting. I fundamentally do not give a shit. You went to college for this right? The idea that you have to compete is fucking embarrassing uuuu. I've spent nothing on my art education. I have other work experiences and life skills first that are ultimately more important for where I want to go in life. Made my first painting at 28. You live with your parents and autistically paint tiddies. You fucking better be better than me at this shit.

I'll be fine knowing I'm probably better than you at literally everything else.
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>>3602313
Jimmy please, calm down
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>>3602315
calmer than you are dude
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>>3602318
it's just a meme, bozo
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>>3601736
could someone please paintpill me on grids?
like how are you supposed to use them?
do you just place a grid on the ref image and copy it onto the page?
i've never actually used grids before and didnt think anyone actually used this method
not trying to sound condescending
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>>3602331
yeah they're basically just good for blowing things up or looking at references on photoshop and stuff.

It's much more of a "left brain" meme.

>do you just place a grid on the ref image and copy it onto the page?
A lot of what le old masters did was thumbnails, then sketches that are roughly the proportional then they'd pop a grid on the sketch and the larger canvas to transfer the sketch to the canvas. It's a good exercise for doing bigger pieces and paintings where the goal is to look proportionally accurate.
>i've never actually used grids before and didnt think anyone actually used this method
Part of the reason that Van Gogh used so much paint and strokes and stuff was to cover all the weirdly thick guidelines and grids and stuff that he drew on the canvas before things got wet.

Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. I built this series around doing devolving types of transfers to canvas. After the first 16 or so I did a ton of graphite transfers, then year 2 was a shift to grids, with hand drawn ones sprinkled in. I'm doing it partially just to be an asshole, and partially to establish my own novel aesthetic. Most people don't necessarily need to do hundreds of them like I am but I think everyone should understand and have experience gridding, tracing, and graphite transfering.

Like in art magnet school in middle school we had a 9-week focus on using grids to blow up cartoon images like Lichtenstein. Was a good experience. If you have a folder or portfolio or something thats a good thing to practice a blow up on if you got a day and you want to do a left brain exorcism
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>>3602259
personal fav by brian
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>>3602342
Stop projecting your insecurities onto Vincent Van Gogh you absolute mongoloid
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>>3602342
That's very nice honey, good job were all very proud of you
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>>3602352
No. Shoot yourself in the jaw with a shotgun and then in the chest when you blow your face off but fail to damage the brain.
>>3602354
Thanks. Take too many pills and down them with too much vodka and sleep on your back.
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Why do people seem to hate on Jimmy? I enjoy him more than you fucks. I especially like him more than Brian. If he didn't have pleasing color aesthetics he'd suck ass at everything else. His technical skills are lacking.

>>3602259
Bulging hip of peace.

Still nice colors though, ain't even gonna fuck wit dat.

Everything else I've seen by you is shit though. I'd say all above average artists always have one really decent painting.
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>>3602313
I have NO idea who you are talking to or what is going on in this thread but you presented a very strong case so I'm gonna have to agree and side with you on this.
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>>3602313

Damn, you fucked and gutted that kid
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>>3602358
>>3602313

Remember when you posted your shitty Elon Musk meme painting to reddit and it bombed? Check this shit out. How did you manage to fucking fail so hard? How does it feel to be left in the dust while this person thrived?

Lmao. This shit is hilarious
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>>3602875
I think jimmy got banned
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>>3602875
>>3602358
>>3602313
Oh lordy. This is embarrassing. Get fucked Jimmy
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>>3602876
Fat chance. He's still trying to post it everywhere and its still fucking bombing.
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>>3602875
>Remember when you posted your shitty Elon Musk meme painting to reddit and it bombed?
Yeah. Was Tuesday. Been hazy on account of all the acid I was on.

I reposted it today too when I saw the seamus guy had jumped on the bandwagon and made booku memebux. Got 10 upbananas today lol.

>How did you manage to fucking fail so hard?
I mean I tanked it on Tuesday by linking to the /ic/ thread, and commenting about how I was a piece of shit that was going to rehab and stuff.

> How does it feel to be left in the dust while this person thrived?
Fine? The Seamus guy is reddit as fuck. He's been posting successfully for years. Plus he actually makes oil paintings that are easily appealing and well executed.

And honestly I think it's absolutely fitting that I would post and get 120 memebux, then 10 memebux, and Seamus Wray would get like 56 k or whatever. Everything in it's right place.

>Lmao. This shit is hilarious
I think so.
>>3602876
Banned from reddit?

>>3602878
>Get fucked Jimmy
Is your mom available?
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>>3602886
Jimmy, it's me, your mother, you suck balls
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>>3602875
>How does it feel to be left in the dust while this person thrived?
But I do like this projection though. How DOES it feel to be left in the dust while others thrive, anon?

I wouldn't know because I don't give a shit. Got like 80 heart memes on instagram even though I posted it in the afternoon instead of the morning. That's not bad. Better than the average performance.

Unlike all you impotent cucks I'm only really competing against myself and a dead man. I'm not motivated by being rewarded or encouraged. Seems gay as fuck. My best work is done when people are acting like desperate projecting virginal faggots at me. Like (you) lmao!
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>>3602893
>I'm not motivated by being rewarded or encouraged
As always, you're full of hypocritical bullshit. If this was true, you wouldn't be spamming the board, let alone trying to promote your work to normies on Reddit and trying to get a social media following.
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>>3602893
Why were you sperging out on Brian last night? It wasn't even your usual memespeak you were just being unfiltered autistic
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>>3602893
and interestingly enough there is always an uptick in followers on instagram and twitter regardless of how a post performs on reddit. Even if it only gets 10 upmemes it still gets hundreds of views, and some of those people get motivated enough to follow or like or whatever else.

Honestly not sure what you think is embarrassing about any of it. None of this shit matters at all.

>>3602900
>As always, you're full of hypocritical bullshit.
Whatever you tell yourself faggot. The people that need to project appeals to hypocrisy are always the biggest hypocrites.
>If this was true, you wouldn't be spamming the board
I'm responding to (you)s you impotent retard. You're the buttblasted cunt that thinks you'll get better by being a sniveling retard at the meme clown.
>let alone trying to promote your work to normies on Reddit
4 new followers since I posted it. Has nothing to do with needing validation or encouragement. This shit is happening anyway. Might as well maintain active top of mind and try and grow.
>and trying to get a social media following.
Pretty important part of contemporary society.
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>>3602905
>Why were you sperging out on Brian last night?
Sick of his shit. Pretty sure he's the one that's threatened to kill me and shoot my cats and contact former employers and stuff. Now he's doing the same shit to other art anons that show up. He is regularly the anon that's hassling and antagonizing people until they leave. He's the fucking reason I did the (you) response meme.

Don't feel like pretending to be nice to someone that anonymously acts like a toxic malignant faggot at everyone about anything until they go away and leave him to the safe space of his goddamn "home board." He straight up acknowledged in his buttblasted meta thread that he seeks out new artists that enjoys being at them if he thinks they think they're "hot shit" (aka EVERYONE BECAUSE HE THINKS EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET HIM IF THEY'RE DOING ANYTHING INTERESTING).

And I'm almost done here for a few months. I don't fucking care. He's in every thread anonymously acting like an embarrassing self-important asshole at everyone for no fucking reason other than he sees himself as le /ic/ gatekeeper that will do what the jannies wont (aka make threats against artists if they don't leave after sustained harassment).
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>>3602933
You sound like a bitch
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>>3602936
Do your parents a favor and hang yourself in your closet you impotent faggot.
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>>3602939
Cyfoism
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>>3602949
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>>3602933
>And I'm almost done here for a few months.
Thank the fucking lord.
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>>3602949
>Cyfoism
is this a thing?
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>>3602964
Cut your finger off-ism
Jimmy doesn't have it
He's too much of a poos
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>>3602957
I cut all my fingers off today, turns out you were too much of a pussy to even attempt it. It didn't even hurt.
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>>3602971
IS IT?!
>>3602974
DID YOU?!
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>>3601968

10K in gallery. nobody blinks.
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>>3603194
$50 dollars on the street because no gallery is interested. Nobody cares.





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