[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/ic/ - Artwork/Critique



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




File: 1547207718147.jpg (464 KB, 1602x1518)
464 KB
464 KB JPG
What happened?
>>
Progress?
>>
>>3763438
Look at the storyboard sketches on the left compared to the right and tell me that's "progress".
>>
SJWs happened
>>
File: image.jpg (131 KB, 1280x720)
131 KB
131 KB JPG
soī
>>
>>3763433
Money mostly.
>>
>>3763433
God I really hate the whole uwu so siwwy :P XD animation style
Keep that amatuer shit on the internet.
>>
>>3763433
the future is now, old man
>>
looks like the exact same thing except one is in black and white
>>
>>3763433

They all want to replicate the 'blissful happiness of childhood' instead of realising that the real improverished world is a fucked up place outside their little corners. They think having pieces of work that reflect ignorance and bliss along with 'feel good' stuff is a good substitue for pieces of media that can stand the test of time...

They basically think all work should hop on shitty trends that will die out instead of making material that will age well and will make people aware of all of the shite you have to put up with on a daily basis ...

Instead of making work that reflects the human imagination and the grit of the world, they prefer material that encourages the lower masses to give into consumerism and the illusion that you have to treat everyone exactly the same, when instead, the pieces of work should reflect how to deal with how shitty the real world is...

Its kind of complicated: One side tried to showcase a world of mystery and idea and the other side prefers showcasing a theater of feel-good material, like junk food.
>>
>>3763440
This studio on the left probably produces these weekly released kids cartoons,
where you need to deliver it fast as fuck. They dont have time to do storyboards and shit like that. You know, Snow white was in production for almost 4 fucking years. Cinderella was something around 3.

Your small brain that thinks "HOHO SJW's DESTROYED THE INDUSTRY" can't see what is obvious:
They're making money. This means they're successful.

Now my own opinion: Yeah, most of today's cartoons are garbage, This reflects what our society wants, fresh forgetable content to fill every spare time that we have.

Start to think with logic intead of using your meme side of the brain please.
>>
>>3763440
Storyboard layouts to sell the flow of the story rather than the animation to save on time and money for a cheaper televised property vs a more thorough approach to a theatrical short with a more unrefined storyboard process.

Do you guys actually want to draw, or do you really want to spend all your time on this board whining about what's popular not matching your precious vision of what should be popular? Do you just want to fantasize about how you'd be the special one to come in and change the industry to its formal glory with your brilliant skill and style? Then get off your high horse and actually do it.
>>
>>3763433
>>3763460

One part of the image wanted to serve and create cuisine that will promote the best of the best kinds of food. They knew that having too much of one thing is not good for the appetite and preferred saving the sweet stuff for last. They knew that you needed a vision to make a fine meal and that in order to do so, you need the best kinds of materials and the right ingredients. Too much of any of them will only ruin it in the end. Chefs need to make a good meal that satisfies the customer and increases their curiosity to experiment with different kinds of food.

The other side prefers serving desserts and candy 24/7 while you watch a circus show and gives you shit if you get sick of it. They don't want to try different kinds of meals because they only want the 'sweet stuff' instead of the variety of cuisines across the world.
>>
>>3763464
I disregarded your whole post when you couldn't differentiate left from right.
That should tell me a lot about the rest of your post.
>>
>>3763467
I have brain damage, sorry.
>>
File: image.jpg (22 KB, 431x369)
22 KB
22 KB JPG
>>3763443
>>
File: SB_pg_36.jpg (75 KB, 1319x763)
75 KB
75 KB JPG
>>3763465
Here is an average post-it note storyboard for Spongebob.
>>
>>3763471
Soul.
>>
>>3763469
Explain how this is soï
>>
>>3763471
Btw I'm only shitposting. Drawing a defined storyboard for a completed script is not the same as brainstorming in a conference room which is what Victor Courtright is doing in OP's image in the middle right.
>>
Was the 40's really the golden age of animation?

https://youtu.be/XmCzUPQN4zU?t=393
>>
>>3763482
Truly soul.
>>
>>3763433

It's got to be something in the water. There are just too many numales too suddenly. It really makes me wonder about those conspiracy theories about the Illuminati dosing us all with anti-testosterone chemicals to reduce population. Men shouldn't be this faggoty.
>>
>>3763433
>left
>works 9-5
>doesn't care, only working for a paycheck
>yup, good enough
>just wants to go home and yell at their wives and kids

>right
>enjoys their work
>spends 14+ hours a day working
>literally brainstorming ideas on the spot
>actually enjoys and cares about the things they're writing
>actually enjoying working with their coworkers
>>
>>3763515
>left
>enjoys their work
>spends 14+ hours a day working
>literally brainstorming ideas on the spot
>actually enjoys and cares about the things they're writing
>actually enjoying working with their coworkers

>right
>works 9-5
>doesn't care, only working for a paycheck
>yup, good enough
>just wants to go home and get yelled at by their wife's boyfriend
>>
>>3763515
manbunner spotted
>>
>>3763518
your post is about as original as the fairy tale ripoffs
>>
>>3763433
You're comparing Disney in its golden era to Cartoon Network. Disney took years to put out a fleshed out feature film while CN has to quickly produce TV episodes. This comparison is moronic at best.
>>
>>3763515
Wow, even when it's a chore to them they're able to churn out more appealing work.
>>
>>3763438
Backwards.
>>
>>3763582
tell me what's forward
>>
>>3763433
this hit me today

but people are all the same wherever you go. watch the same shit on youtube, have the same phone, they all like the same food. maybe not in non western countries, but then you have the youth aspiring to be westernized.

when i read about old artists and craftsmen it feels like their existence was defined by the craft. without it theyd just be a sack of potatoes. nowadays our existence is leisurely and free of a need for that sort of validation. i dont need to do diddly squat to feel okay about living in this world. i can take up a shitty ass office job where all i do is do monkey diddly donkey kong work on a spreadsheet, or not work at all. i can go to a school where we rarely learn and its more of a den for kids to fuck each other and wear nice clothes. i dont need to do diddly damn dunkey-dang dimma-damn squat. and when im done doing nothing, ill go to the pop up art shit and have brunch. fuck you.


im gonna try to make my life about my work now. this year im turning 26, ffs. im done fucking around.
>>
>>3763607
Honestly I was thinking something similar recently,
However, instead of because of leisure and need for validation its actually the opposite.

Millennials especially for example, with the trophies and all the other nonsense, have been constantly exposed to basely praise and "likes" online. This means a few people complimenting you means nothing, succeeding means nothing. There's no relief or end goal because everything that comes to you is something that has been trivialized and really doesn't matter.
Yeah sure, being liked on pixiv makes me a little happy, but I know relatively its just the click of a button. When someone say's I'm great at my job, it really doesn't mean much to me.

And on top of that, they've been exposed to the very best of the best on a regular occasion, 100 years ago you see the best art maybe once in your life. So you could go 50 years being the best person most people have ever seen. Now, with the internet, you're well aware of your place in the world. You're not competing with bob and tim down the block, you're competing with kim in korea, you're competing with lee in china, you're competing with Hans in Germany.
This makes it hard to think objectively about your skill level, and when you're comparing yourself to the very best of the best on a regular occasion, your skill will always feel insignificant.

And for me at least it just confuses me on how I should feel. I'm a Comp sci for example, sure I make things that can help thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people. And 30 years ago that may of been the most amazing thing in the world. But now, I compare it to what I see around me. Its no discord, its not apple, its not google. Its absolutely nothing in comparison.It might be impressive actually, from the things I hear, but I'm forced to compare things on a global scale now.
>>
>>3763620
And what this means to me is that motivations are different.

I'm good enough to get hired, but what does this mean I should aim for?
Should I be the best at my craft knowing full well who the real bests are and that I'll never get there. Or should I settle with small improvements, working a bit hard, but knowing I'll be average and instead search for a place that I can have fun and makes me happy?

And I think that's the crux of things like the OP image. Years ago those people may of been the best around and doing something people have never seen. But the world is saturated in it, its saturated in artists. Instead of being trail blazers doing the first animations, people are always going to get compared to the best. So instead of trying to be the best of the best, and classy about it. Its just people who have understood their place in the world, they're skilled and improving, but they'd rather find a place that makes them happy in life than be immersed in work.
>>
>>3763469
what did they mean by this?
>>
>>3763620
>>3763626
This is something I've also been thinking about recently. I know realistically that I'll never be the 'best of the best', but I don't like the idea of just being another average 'cog in the machine', so to speak. I'm looking at someday making my own independent animated miniseries/movie, but I know that it won't be as successful or well liked as the typical mass-produced Disney flick. It's really the issue of saturation, as you mentioned.
>>
>>3763635
I think both are fine. And settling for averagish isnt that bad as I'm kinda saying. Like I've settled and know I'm no genius, but I'm still good and I take pride in my work. I like doing a good job and I enjoy improving, I will always continue to do that.
But it's just a single part of me, I'm never going to be the best so i wont let that part of my life consume me, i need happiness in other venues too. For me right now that's practicing art and basically have a life outside if work so having a job that allows me to work hard there but give me time at home is what I look for.
For some people they want to have fun at work on top of doing a good job. And i think that's what the OP image shows. It's just people who value that culture on top of their work, because everybody enjoys and can take pride in their job.

And a more anecdotal example, people always make fun of the shit at like Google or amazon where they have slides and parties or play quidditch and shit.
But the thing is all those people work incredible hard every day. If you're programming for main Google you might play a few games on the side for an hour, but you're working 13 hours immediately after. And when you're done everybody else gives you the /ic/ critic treatment about how bad it is.
>>
>>3763482
Rotoscope =/= good animation
>>
>>3763433
Women and jews. But mostly jews
>>
>>3763660
You look at that clip and tell me it's shit animation.
>>
Judeomasonic interest slavery.
>>
>>3763620
>kim
>korea
>lee
>china
>hans
>germany

omg racist much?
>>
>>3763607
Hey, I'm the same age, and I feel the same. I remember thinking the internet was going to open up the floodgates, and tastes would become polychrome. But in fact, everything is homogenized on the internet, and it bled onto the real world. It's all the same in the art world, vidya, music world. Same ideologies, same aesthetics, same lingo.

I'm not gonna make my life just about my world, but I will find unique things, and I will make something unique regardless of how long it takes.
>>
>>3763654
Before I rail into your motivation or lack there of I should commend your desire to acquire new skills by persuing art, something that will at least slow the stagnation somewhat.
That said I don't think I could live without competition, I see no reason to assume I can't be the best especially without trying and you gain nothing from that assumption. Why not die falling forward? More so than the thought I might never be the best the notion that I might remain the same fills me with far more anxiety and would make me question living at all.
I think your overall mentality is part of the problem on the whole, people like you get into whatever industry and occupy what few positions there may be, your values infect peers and new hires and perpetuate this good enough mindset. On the flipside if everyone was being held to a hire standard by those in whatever career path then people would have to try harder and not get complacent so quick.
>>
>>3763635
>>3763654

The idea of "best" is a red herring in this context. In some fields, it might be more applicable, but in art, or even comp sci, it's a useless concept. You take the 100 meter sprint with the world's highest ranked runners, only one of them will reach the finish line first, so you can reasonably say that's the "best" (fastest) person. But with art, who is best? Is Pixar better than 2D Disney? Is 3D Disney better than Pixar? There's no way to define that. Is Capa better than Cartier-Bresson? What does that even mean? Even in software dev, there are usually several ways to skin a cat, some of which are better than others, and "best" is very context- and resource-dependent.

That's not to say everything is mud. There's clearly shit. But once you move past the shit and the mediocre into the good category, all you can honestly say is that this is better, much better than the shit/mediocre, and that other thing over there is also much better than shit/mediocre, so they're both good, maybe in different ways. The concept of better is more useful and meaningful than best. It applies to life too: strive to be good, then work on being even better. Healthier and more practical than worrying about "the best".
>>
>>3763433
the right are "le trendy autiste". If you look at the insider info about sjw cal arts studios, they come to work and do random shit the whole day including not being at their desk at all, and only "work" for around 2h. I mean the depth and quality of the visuals and storytelling really shows, so further discussion is kinda trivial as you can probably guess
>>
>>3763515
The shots on the left are:

Warner Bros. animators, who did the Looney Tunes cartoons. The guy with the goatee might be Chuck Jones. The tallest guy in the jacket is Bob Clampett.

The woman in the middle is Mary Blair, who did the backgrounds for Cinderella, and designed "Its a Small World) (Not one of my fave Disney artists)

The bottom is Walt and Ward Kimball, an Oscar winning animator and one of THE most influential animators ever.

You really should know who you're talking about before making shitty comments - these people worked harder and for longer hours on their craft than anything you will, your entire life.

Show some respect.
>>
>>3763828
In this case for me, in using "best" as a general concept of being in the upper tiers of a profession. Like I'd agree theres no singular best artist in the world, but theres a general acceptance when you see the best or most popular artists. And every single artist will be compared to them. Or on the other hand theres things like fame. No matter how good an animation a studio puts out, at best it gets offhand praise. It's never going to be snow white or classics Disney level of fame even if they tried their hardest. Just because of all the things classic Disney stood for and how deeply ingrained it is. Invader zim might be popular and loved, but it's small time.
>>3763825
I think both are necessary. Without people wanting to be the best we wouldn't have things like Google or amazon. But i think it's a little silly to expect it of everyone. Because there are limits and to the original point, the internet and modern society is a huge motivation killer.
To be personal again, I didnt go into CS because I love CS, theres nothing I really get passionate about.
But all my life I get rewarded and succeed for the simple act of trying. And it led to a 2 fold issue.
1. I always expect to succeed.
2. When I do I feel nothing
And it's hard to feel motivation when success is meaningless. I think it was easier to focus on being the best when you weren't surrounded by a wall you cant see the height if. Without the internet you gradually see new heights that were relatively easy to surpass. Youd feel joy at overcoming the challenge. But when all the heights are just a seemingly endless climb, its hard for anyone to bother. Instead you get a lot more people like me who see those walls, and maybe they just start building their own wall for the sake of the walls. Maybe eventually it gets somewhere and reaches similar heights and maybe it doesnt, but we never expected to reach the top anyways. We're just building the wall because we felt like making the wall.
>>
>>3763469
"So White", from "Coal Black and the Sebben Dwarves", a banned cartoon from the 40's, pre-war, from the Warner's studio.

It was one of the unicorns of animation, pure rumor, until the internet came along. It was banned from TV and movie theaters for years.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x51ver
>>
>>3763978
I mean I get it for what it's supposed to be but WHY does this even exist? What is wrong with white people? Did a group of men seriously spent months of their lives around a conference table discussing how to animate a negro musical for shits and giggles?
>>
>>3763975
I'm a bit similar interms of how I view some of the new skills I acquire. When you break things down into months/weeks/days it really doesn't take that long in the grand scheme of things to teach yourself something new, be it a language, programming or software, yet people don't as I guess they're not that way inclined.
For me the challenge is enough which is where i'd say im similar to you and also completely different. Similar in the sense that once i've accomplished or solved something I lose interest in it and different because those walls you talk about only serve to motivate me.
Anime like Akira and artists like Takumi Nagayasu exist to show me how high people can climb and as a beacon to strive for, its a case of "they can do it, I can too". I don't know how you define success, fame? fortune? The way you're framing success seems to imply external validation rather than the accomplishment itself?
It might be silly and naive to expect it of everyone however I hold those stagnant people in utter contempt, all the more so when people make it into the industry and coast along under the radar. My bias towards this stems from the creative industry though, one seen as cut throat to break into due to nepotism and general competition yet easy to stay there once you've made it.
It seems we differ very fundamentally, you seem intimidated by seeing how high some mountains are while I just want to climb them. This is a problem that begins before the internet and modern society and more how you approach a challenge.

I long for a meritocracy.
>>
>>3763978
Woooooooow, I tend not to care about how offensive racist jokes are. But damn, thats racist.

>>3763985
It's clearly a vehicle to get black men to enlist in the American army. WB CEO probably got asked to do it by military contractors or some shit and it fell on the heads of the animators, writers and directors.
>>
it became socially acceptable to take it up the ass
>>
File: akira.gif (991 KB, 500x281)
991 KB
991 KB GIF
>>3763482
Nah, late 80s Japan was
>>
>>3763469
she's kinda sexy though...
>>
File: 1507674136486.png (839 KB, 716x1080)
839 KB
839 KB PNG
Americans get on my fucking nerves

When animation started:
>Why would anyone care about our "~1 years of hard work just to get one episode done" content if it looked like shit, best use are best of our abilities just to get it done.

When animation streamlined:
>Why wouldn't anyone care about our "~3 months of work just to get one episode done" content regardless what it looked like, best just have fun and make content for the casual market of animated entertainment

There was no rule or law animation MUST "look good", just be entertaining, hence "entertainment". If it's entertaining, that's animation. Making it "look good" is no fucking different from making "muh style" it's 100% fucking subjective, and only ~10% of the population outside of Japan fucking cares about how dick pandering a drawing looks. Get over yourselves, if this ever mattered America would have ended up no different about animation practices than Japan, which was never since they since the dawn of time outsourced their work to, what do you know, Asian homelands for most of the blunt work. You're all projecting a false narrative, fuck off to Japan if you want "slave labor" quality looking art in animation.
>>
>>3764104
Those light effects are rather tacky though
>>
>>3763978
>Murder INC
>Midgets half the price
>Japs free
ok I laughed
>>
>>3763433
Unpopular opinion: /ic/ who draws exclusively "cute girls" goes on the right side.

Girls being popular here don't make them good.
>>
File: hmmm.png (173 KB, 2688x2688)
173 KB
173 KB PNG
>>3763438
Can it be really called "progress" when little-to-nothing has changed at all?
Women have been on animation since the beginning.
Non-whites have been working in animation since the 60's.
What's changed? People just like to pretend the past was this evil, bigoted shithole where everybody was miserable.
>>
Jews
>>
>>3764307

They look 1000% better than digital shit.
>>
>>3764460
They are still tacky.
>>
File: i am a japanese man.png (253 KB, 608x342)
253 KB
253 KB PNG
>>3764399
>What's changed?
Money changed. I think that's the biggest thing. Mainly for Nip mustard race's stuff, generally not as good as it used to be because of tighter budgets. The anime industry is in the worst state it's ever been.
To add to that -pure speculation, nowadays we have enough technology to produce streamlined animation with little to no struggle, and even if there's you can export animation to gookland everyway, there's no need to think outside the box and play around technical limitations. People got lazy.
>>
>>3764462
>everyway
*anyways
you get me
>>
>>3763607
>>3763782
The internet really homogenized shit all around. Everyone is copying the same artists and using the same tutorials in place of life study and looking for more unique inspiration.
>>
>>3763513
>Man what's with all these anti-war hippy pieces of shit, must be all the drugs
>Man, what's with all these pansy ass city boys who never worked a day in their life
>What's with all these agricultural faggots, i bet they've never killed an animal
>look at these tribe grugs
>>
>>3763433
This is the exacly same shit as facebook memes. Comparing Beethoven and Justin Biber with caption 'what happend?' If you do this unironically then you didn't think it through, and if you won't stop you will often considered as a retardo.
>>
>>3763433
They're making a movie on the right and a cartoon on the left, different budgets, deadlines, etc
>>
>>3764528
OP's pic is strawman no doubt but no one can deny the overall drop in talent and quality in the American animation industry.
>>
>>3764533
fuck, switch right and left, I'm retarded
>>
File: 1500823727600.jpg (82 KB, 960x598)
82 KB
82 KB JPG
>>3764537
>Projects this when the 60s-80s had the Hanna BarbERA happen with 90s-2000s bringing it back.
>>
>Production cycles have gotten shorter
>Executive oversight has gotten bigger as money invested in a project has gotten bigger and so potential for loss has gotten bigger
>Willingness to deviate from previously successful patterns has decreased as money invested in a project has gotten bigger and so potential for loss has gotten bigger
>As the 'industry' has gotten bigger it's gotten incestuous and nepotistic
>Animation isn't new any more, there are now established patterns and expectations
But most importantly
>Brainlets still consume product and eagerly await next product, fuelling the whole thing for even longer
>>
>>3764676
That...doesn't really disprove what I said. Are we living in the second golden age of the late 80s and 90s?
>>
>>3763782
>>3763620
That's why you should be the Best at something unique! (this is areally a cheat code I give you here)

>>3763768
How is that racist?! There are no Kim in Korea? No Hans in Germany? No Li in China? No (common country name) in (country)?
>>
>>3764683
I'd add that, in addition of the fear of risk, the brainlets you're talking about want the next product without being too different than what they already know, their taste becoming more and more homogenous.
>>
>>3763433
What are we supposed to discuss here?
Should we make assumptions about the industry based on a fucking picture, or should we just rant about gays and jews, like every weekend when the /pol/ nigger that makes these threads comes to talk about his only hobby: politics?
>>
>>3763985
They thought it was funny back then. It was a different era. It was before civil rights.
>>
>>3764167
No, angry weeabo. That's not true at all. Disney was the first person who cared what it looked like, and approached it as art. The silly stuff, like Donald Duck was the throwaway, "entertainment" stuff that was just made to be shown before a movie - but the animated features were a different thing, and they spent years developing as artists, to make animations that were visually stunning to audiences back then. The world laughed at Walt for thinking he could make a feature length animations, because of the same attitude YOU have, and he proved them wrong - and the pinnacle was Fantasia.

Americans get on your nerves? Snotty, arrogant people like you step on my last fucking nerves. You don't respect the past, and worse, you don't know about the past, and don't understand what little you know. Pure ignorant arrogance, and you have the nerve to tell other people to get over themselves? LOL.
>>
File: 1501038523630.jpg (11 KB, 298x292)
11 KB
11 KB JPG
>>3763433
>>3764901
Your history means jack fucking shit when no one actually tries to keep it going. I'm arrogant? At least I accept America is a flawed piece of shit instead of thinking it was ever high standard. Walt is just a one in a million. Not the standard, but the outliner. He's not a messiah, since no one after his golden era of animation kept the torch going. Keep on pissing in the wind, and fuck off with that muh Jap worship shit. They have their own problems that gets on my nerves too, but they at least tried harder than the West to keep the standards they set in stone, whether that lasts or not, which might not either on the long term.
>>
>>3764981
Yeah, they really kept the standards with CG and anime being a glorified marketing scheme for other media and idols/VAs.
>>
>>3764766
>gays and jews used in an argument.

Guess we all now know to disregard anything you say.
>>
>>3766177

Not him, but gays and Jews are clearly responsible for turning big swathes of the art world into degenerate freakshows. Everyone who isn't afraid to think forbidden thoughts can see this.
>>
>>3764994
Not even the weeb, but saying the japs gave up tradition too is a shitty argument against whats being said.
>>
>>3764461
Nah you're just braindead
>>
File: anno5.jpg (93 KB, 786x484)
93 KB
93 KB JPG
emancipation of women


>3763978
It's actually kinda wholesome
>>
File: Ddhhw7AXUAEw_eH.jpg (87 KB, 576x858)
87 KB
87 KB JPG
The main bottomline is that the ones over on the right side of the image disregard everything important about artist history and human achievement and try to dumb down their work to a mass market that prefers homogenous shit.

Its the same reason why everything is fucking freaking out about how 'amazing' the fucking Spiderverse is when it isn't even that good. Its GOOD in their eyes because its homogenous core concept 'SPIDERMAN' is twisted with artistic merit and it fucking blows their god damm minds. But the movie itself is still shit.

Now, I would personally think Kubo and The Two Strings is a far FAR better movie but its not 'familiar' or 'homogenous' for retarded artists and consumers that will defend what the people on the right side of OP's pic are doing because like I said before, it won't remind them of the familiar.

They're products of a failure in evolution; how do you think humanity evolved? By staying in the same places and eating the same shit, and thinking the same as everyone else? Fuck no. They went out of their way by acknowledging the importance of genuine skill and showing their clans their combination of skill and new originality. Thats how evolution is supposed to work in art.
>>
>>3766657
kubo and the copout ending
>>
Steven Universe is great, don't be a fuckin snob.
>>
>>3766745

>dude, imagine, dude, what if we threw multiple spidermans in one movie and make spinoffs with them lmao
>>
>>3766939

its overpraised and overexposed. its good but its not the fucking messiah of modern animation.





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.