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The only reason we have screen less tablets at all is because they are cheaper to Wacom’s overpriced products and poorfags needed a way to start drawing their waifus without paying 1k+.

Everyone prefers to draw the natural way by looking directly at your drawing.

I mean yeah most Artists eventually adapted to their tablets. But it sucks ass. It’s sure as hell not ideal.

Nowadays you can get cheap screen tablets with apple’s iPad, Huion and Xp pen not to mention the surface and Samsung galaxy’s spen tablets. Screenless tablets are getting way cheaper.

Heck you can get a cintiq for $650 or an iPad for $300 +$ 99 for the pen.

Money is becoming less of an excuse and it will only get cheaper once the tech gets better.Theres no reason to bother with
screenless tablets in this day an age.

I for one can’t wait until screen tablets becomes the norm.

Inb4 special snowflake that goes like “ I have a 15k cintiq but I prefer my screenless tablet”
>>
I’ve been using screenless forever. It’s kind of like second nature now
>>
I agree!
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>>3935298
cope
>>
>>3935298
screenless works just fine for me and my space, why should I give a fuck if you think they're outdated or not?
>>
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>>3935325
You shouldn't, get baited idiot
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>>3935325
This.
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>>3935298
>I for one can't wait until screen tablets becomes the norm, so I can finally afford one.
>>
>>3935325
Why should I care about your shit taste?
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>>3935337
I already bought one.
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>>3935342
So what's the point in this thread?
Doesn't matter what tools you use, they're all useless if you can't draw.
>>
>>3935337
This will happen when Universal Stylus Initiative become the standard for Android tablets and some dev has the balls to release a decent drawing app for that OS.
>>
>>3935347
To say screenless tablets are outdated. its not about your shit taste. The world doesn’t revolve around you.Fuck off
>>
>>3935349
Yeah and my point is, so what?
We already have a vent thread dude
>>
>>3935352
And my point is fuck off. Talking about tablets tecn it’s not “venting”.
>>
>>3935298
You don't have to deal with your stylus and fingers blocking the screen. On the side of the screens stylus isn't pin-point accurate, at least with screenless it's not that bad. Neck doesn't hurt from looking down, don't have to get a drafting table.
>>
Screenless definitely has a bigger learning curve but if you're willing to put in the time it's not going to be worse or better considering the end product.
Stop putting so much thinking in your tools and maybe actually learn to draw.
>>
>>3935298
don't need to change your mind since you're right.
Those coping poorfags though
>>
Algenfpledger can afford a cintiq, and chooses intous instead because he likes to lean back in his chair while he paints.
>>
>>3935298
Are you the retard that made this thread complaining about his tablet? >>3930071
Look buddy, drawing on these things is hard and whatever but you just gotta deal with the cards your dealt. I have the same make and model as you. Got it in 2017. I just use it for lineart and coloring. All my sketches and what I consider "actual drawing" takes place on paper.
>>
>>3935474
No, am not him. Iuse an ipad I wanted to talk about tech, not to start a pity party.
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>>3935298
>use screenless intuos for years
>internet friend surprises me by buying me a brand new cintiq
>6 months pass and I still haven't hooked it up because I'm too used to my intuos

im a piece of shit i know
>>
>>3935298
Yea poorfag feng zhu
>>
Equipment makes a miniscule difference to quality of art compared to skill and only crab shitters care enough to make a meme about it
>>
>>3935510
Strawman fag. The topic is having comfortable tools. Nobody is blaming tools for bad art exept you, brainlet.
>>
>>3935514
t. Triggered crab shitter
>>
>>3935514
>implying screenless tablets dont offer patrician-level comfort and ergonomics
brainlet spotted
>>
>>3935519
>Implying not looking at what you draw is natural and artist just adapted due to lack of money.

NGMI detected.
>>
>>3935524
>not looking at what you draw
you're not looking at the screen while you draw? you're looking at your hands on the screenless tablet? LOL there's your problem buddy
>>
>>3935530
strawman fag strikes again. Obviously, it's doable, brainlet.

Cintiqs wouldn't exist if they weren't more confortable
>>
>>3935298
I like looking something infront of me instead of breaking my neck and looking down.
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>>3935298
Fancy tools doesn't make your art better.
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>>3935541
nobody said that strawman fag.
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>>3935540

stands for tablets exist.
>>
True, but if you're 13-17 chances are you don't have a job and your parents aren't willing to spend 300+ € for a DECENT drawing tablet
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>>3935541
they do though
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>>3935551
They can make your art more presentable, they cant give you more skill.
>>
>>3935544
I think they mean that you can look at the image head on, a position that would be rather uncomfortable to draw at.
>>
>>3935298
It must suck to have such shit hand to eye coordination that you feel the need to ree about the "superiority" of a screen tablet.
>>
Sorta agree
Looking at your screen trying to draw a circle somewhere else is different than actually drawing a circle on the screen. You actually become faster since you're not trying to do hand-eye gymnastics.
Also stop torturing your necks, buy a damn stand for your tablet!
>>
>>3935298
>better ergonomics
>more energy efficient
>hand is never in front of the drawing
>tablet doesn't generate heat
>durable as fuck
>only a fraction of the cost

but no, you're right neck pain and and wrist problems are the way of the future
>>
>>3935566
>falling for the eye to hand marketing meme
>>
>>3935575
Also have to add in that sweaty palms are a fucking nightmare. Sweat gets all over it, screen becomes dirty, then you may end up scratching the damn thing. I have one of those gay artist gloves and it feels weird, have to get used to it.
One more thing, unless you buy Wacom, good luck calibrating
>>
>>3935587
>Actually thinking it's a meme
>>
>>3935556
oh yeah, that's right, but I still believe that having great materials to start with makes a huge difference
>>
steven crowder is scared to debate sam seder
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Screenless tablets is one of the most ergonomic way to produce art. You can keep a straight back and neck and stare in front instead of hunching over a paper or tablet. Easel is also very good but you tired your shoulder after many hours
>>
>>3935703
Anything that enhances the quality of your work while also improving your efficiency and how fast you can make that work is 100% worth.
>>
>>3935298
>ipad
>can't use full function program
>can't into 3D sculpting
>use ios instead of full function os
>wacom studio mobile
>cost zillion dollar
screenless tablet + lap is the ultimate choice for artist who want to move around
>>
>>3935298
I'd say no for a simple reason.

Drawing "normally" you'd be looking at your drawing as its hung vertically, e.g. on an easel, when drawing with a screen tablet though, you're rarely having it sitting vertically in front of you. Almost 95% of the time it will be on a table, this causes you to view it at an odd angle and make the motions for drawing feel awkward.
With a screenless tablet, while you're still drawing awkwardly, your view of the drawing is "normal" which makes the actual visualization easier. Plus it opens up more options for using your keyboard and hot keys,
>>
>>3935831
Wacom at least sells the Ergo Stand that tilt pretty near 90 degrees vertical if not all the way vertical. If you're going to pay that much for a Cintiq then you should able to afford the stand too.

Aaron Blaise also made his own stand for his behemoth 32 inch Cintiq
>>
>>3935831
Buy a stand
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>>3935741
Poorfag that has never used an ipad detected
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>>3935831
Stands exist. Shocking I know.
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>>3935298
>" durr I like my arm covering 25% of what I'm working on"
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>>3935893
>>3935591

You just bitched about something that also applies to pen and paper.
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>>3935298
>screenless tablets are shit because my hand-eye coordination is piss poor!
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>>3935950
buying cintiqs in 2019

Top kek
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>>3935323
poor
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>>3935950
>Implying cintiqs are that hard to use.
>>
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i mean its not amazing but it was what i could afford like 7 years ago and it still works so...what's the problem? aren't pencils outdated by this logic?
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>>3935732
Based and posturepilled.
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>>3936020
No.

Pencils don't create art with art software.

Inb4 "scan your drawing".

No, retard, I mean actually using digital brushes.

That's not what
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>>3936027
based schizo poster
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>>3936040
PYW
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>>3935298
It's not about the tool, it's about the artist. Someone can make better art with a mouse on MS Paint than someone with Photoshop and a $3k tablet with a screen. The artist matters more than the tools.

So no, you're completely wrong. Like most art teachers trying to say your expression of art isn't art just because its not in their particular style or subjective viewpoint. While it may lack certain critical techniques it doesn't stop it from being creative expression or art. You're just wrong OP.
>>
>>3936054
Straw man fag again. Nobody is blaming the tool for bad art. It’s a thread about being comfortable.

You are the one completely wrong for lacking reading comprehension.
>>
>>3936054
Amazing, everything you just said is wrong.

Congratulations you are a compete retard.

I am not blaming tools for bad art. If you had read the Op you would know I admitted screenless tablets produce good art. Yeah a cheap pencil can make good art. No shit Sherlock.

My point is that screen tablets aren’t standard because they were expensive as fuck but they are superior to screenless ones.
>>
>>3936061
And yet nothing I said is wrong in any way, if you want to argue about being comfortable, then a screenless tablet is still better as its easier on the neck/spine in terms of posture. Even so the ability to adjust between looking at your drawing and not looking at your drawing is almost virtually worthless as it takes a matter of about 20-30 minutes to get used to not looking down as your brain automatically adjusts thanks to a cursor on the screen matching up with your hand positioning.

With all that said, one of his arguments was affordability as well, which while they are becoming cheaper, they still aren't quite the same affordability as a screenless tablet, which can be bought for a mere $50-100 and work the exact same way for a worse posture and only so much pressure sensitivity differences. So instead of assuming everyone who doesn't agree with you is doing a straw man argument, why don't you actually try forming an opinion for yourself and actually discussing it rather than fling buzzwords around.
>>
>>3936069
Everything you said is wrong and fucking retarded.

Again, nobody blamed the tools for bad art. That's was a fucking stupid strawman of yours.

Try reading instead of, unironically, feeling like a sage for repeating over used memes like "even mspain can do good art"
>>
>>3936064
Superiority is a matter of subjectivity, while yes, it is generally better to look at something, it's not inherently better for everyone and causes posture issues. While yes they aren't standard because of their price, there is honestly zero difference between the two beyond specs. Your brain will adjust extremely quickly to not having to look and you'll save yourself tons of issues when it comes to neck/spine muscles.

Now would you like to keep arguing semantics between having a screen or not?
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>>3936078
>Your brain will adjust extremely quickly
this is true for nearly everybody in the world, but you seem to have forgotten who you're talking to
>>
Im gonna have to agree its better to lean back in my chair than it is to constantly be looking down at something or leaning forward.

Fuck screens, more money and Im less comfy, not gonna change my art in any way anyways.
>>
>>3936076
>its wrong because I say it is

Yes, that is exactly how it works, your brain adjusts. I drew with a mouse for years, the moment I bought a tablet it took a matter of about 20 minutes to adjust for something I feared would be hard since I couldn't look at what I was doing,also yes, MS paint can do good art as well, maybe not all the things you need it to do, but it can do good art just fine.

Also nice avoiding the posture argument and comfortability entirely, which I believe was your and OP's point in the first place?
>>3936080
Right I'm on 4chan. My bad, carry on.
>>
I'm just going to assume tablet stands are a foreign concept to /ic/
>>
>>3936083
>having to stand or lean forward to draw
Nah, if we're going to argue whether its comfortable or not, then its more comfortable to lean back in my chair.
>>
>>3936078
>>3936078
WRONG AGAIN

No, retard. If superiority was subjetive people wouldn't practice to improve themselves.

You wouldn't need to be even more stupid than you are if you didn't ditch your shitty $30 monoprice tablets for a wacom $1 Kcintiq. Because, guess what? They ARE OBJETIVELY SUPERIOR

Also I don't think you know what "semantics" means.
>>
>>3936083
This.

Best argument screenless tablet shills can give is to ignore stands exist.

>>3936086
>>3936081

Stands exist.
>>
>>3936086
Yeah, I was right to assume. Granted some huions and a few cintiqs (not the pro 13 or pro 16) have the decent ones, but still. Don't know about the rest .
>>
>>3936089
>If superiority was subjetive people wouldn't practice to improve themselves.
People improve because they subjectively view their skills as not being superior to someone else's or their own standards of superiority. If you had a screen tablet and a screenless tablet at exactly the same specs, then it comes down to pure subjectivity on which you prefer, and this calls back to your argument of whichever is more comfortable, which as we've seen in this thread is debatable, ie: subjective.
>You wouldn't need to be even more stupid than you are if you didn't ditch your shitty $30 monoprice tablets for a wacom $1 Kcintiq. Because, guess what? They ARE OBJETIVELY SUPERIOR
Again, we're arguing over comfortability are we not? That was your original point, correct? Yes, it was. if the two are identical then it comes down to personal subjective preference, and even then, having a screen generally increases the chances of poor posture because of the way you have to draw on it, whether with a stand or not by comparison, and again, that is still subjective, because everyone is comfortable in different ways. If the two tablets are identical beyond having a screen, then yes, its entirely subjective.
>Also I don't think you know what "semantics" means.
Considering the argument is based on logic, yes I know what semantics means.
>>
>>3936090
You either have to lean over what you're drawing, or hold you arm up the whole time. I don't see how a stand solves this?
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>>3936090
>Stands exist.
I still have to lean forward to properly draw, that is less comfortable. End of story.
>>
>>3936090
Screenless is alright but I just find it funny to see a list of complaints about leaning over and breaking your back and shit.
Like, there's already a way to have your screen be almost vertical, why aren't you using it??
>>
>>3936096
Because you still have to lean forward, without a screen I can just lean back and be comfortable, wasn't that the original point of the thread, or are we throwing new things into the equation in order to satisfy our own arguments?
>>
my god its been awhile since ive seen anons get destroyed in arguments so easily that was pretty entertaining
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>>3936097
>You still have to lean forward on a vertical screen
I'm not spinning any narrative. I'm not even sure what the argument is. I'm just laughing at people literally fucking up their posture over this, there's a thing that 100% fixes this unless you bought a shit tablet that doesn't support one.
Screen vs screenless? Use whatever, you're at least drawing. That's the point right?
>>
>>3936107
WHOA NOW, DONT BRING YOUR LOGIC HERE THAT MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE LAD
>>
>>3936096
Lol. This, so much.
>>
Having a screen is better, but I do find that after drawing for hours I tend to be slightly a little more sore than without a screen. But it's barely a difference at all. Just depends on the person I suppose.

Some of you are getting real autistic about this shit.
>>
>>3935348
Medibang Paint and Aitodesk Sketchbook aren't bad
>>
>>3935510
Agreed, hell, if you have. smartphone its possible to buy a cheap stylus and draw on the tiny cramped screen

Will it be difficult? Sure, but you'd be surprised at the quality of art that can be created

I started drawing digitally with a crappy smartphone running android 4.4 and my finger

the only reason I use a note 9 now is for the pressure sensitivity, and I'm a tech whore
>>
>>3936115
strawman fags miss the point that nobody is denying you can create great art with literal shit.
>>
>>3936190
t. seething shitter crab
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The only reason we have touch less computers at all is because they are cheaper to Apple’s overpriced products and poorfags needed a way to start clicking their desktops without paying 1k+.

Everyone prefers to browse the natural way by tapping directly at your icons.

I mean yeah most Users eventually adapted to their mouses. But it sucks ass. It’s sure as hell not ideal.

Nowadays you can get cheap smartphones with apple’s iPhone, Xiaomi and Motorola not to mention the touchscreen dedsktops and Samsung galaxy’s spen tablets. Touchless computers are getting way cheaper.

Heck you can get an android for $65 or an iPhone for $3000 +$ 999 for the pen.

Money is becoming less of an excuse and it will only get cheaper once the tech gets better.Theres no reason to bother with
touchless computers in this day an age.

I for one can’t wait until smartphones becomes the norm.

Inb4 special snowflake that goes like “ I have a 15k macbook but I prefer my gaymer pc”
>>
>>3936459
>Everyone prefers to browse the natural way by directly tapping your icons.
Cringe and toddlerpilled. Keyboard centric controls have been and always will be the most efficient way of using a computer. Touch screens are more intuitive but they're fucking abysmal at actually doing work.
>>
>>3935950
Very nice cropping there, "anon".
>>
>tfw the tablet just broke
>>
>>3936777
bastard you stole my post number
>>
>>3936780
did I steal your suffering too?
>>
>>3935584
this
>>
>>3936054

>with enough skill you dont need a tablet you can just paint everything using ketchup because tools are completely irrelevant
>>
>>3936092
please kill yourself.

Ignoring your idiotic philosophy aside about shit being subjectively good somehow, I love how you ignored the fact that replacing a 20 dollar monoprice with a $1k is objectively superior.
>>
>>3936095

You are bitching about something that applies to traditional too.


NGMI end of story
>>
>>3936092

Shit mental gymnastics about people improving to be OBJETIVELY superior, aside

I love how you ignored how replacing a $20 monoprice shit tablet with a $1k wacom cintiq is OBJETIVELY superior.
>>
>>3935298
I'm poor as shit. Leave me alone.
>>
I switched from screen to screenless and I like it better. I guess it's all preference, but I think it's a lot better for my posture, way simpler in terms of wires and setup, and doesn't make all that much of a difference in usage.

I'd say that if you already have a screenless tablet, just stick with it.
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>>3935298
>Everyone prefers to draw the natural way by looking directly at your drawing
>Everyone
You are insecure little shit. Eat a dick.
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>use screenless for years
>finally get a screen
>it starts fucking up a few years in
>go back to screenless
Sure my screen was one of those Chinese ones but I'm not paying £1K for a Wacom.
>>
>>3935741
Go for the surface pro then. Problem solved
>>
>>3937359

>blaming screen tablets because you gave your screen tablet virginity to the Chinese
>>
>>3935732
Mounted armature my dude. I can even stand up and draw.
>>
>>3937359
>buys cheap scummy product that you know gonna break
>cheap scummy product breaks
how could this have happened?!?
>>
I'm starting to dislike my screenless, but I'm pretty sure it's a size problem, not a screen problem.
The active area on my screenless is about 6 inches. After taking away the UI of the drawing program, taskbar, etc., the active area is smaller than that. I sometimes struggle to get good lines because I can only use my fingers and wrist with such a small area. It works, but it's not ideal.
I feel like one of these 16in tablets would make sketching feel a lot more natural and smooth for me. And if it has a screen I don't have to get used to a different calibration with the screenless, along with all the other perks.
>>
>>3937515
Which one would be good? The Intuos looks interesting but it's still pretty small. XP Pen has bigger ones but I have no experience with anything other than Wacom.
>>
>>3937414
>>3937455
The thing cost £400 so I figured it would at least last a while. At the end of the day I'd rather be scammed by cheap Chinese shit than give money to Wacom jews.
>>
>>3936086
Gotta agree here even though I'm in the screenless camp. I've been drawing way more with my screen tablet than I ever did with my graphic bad but leaning back in my chair is something I miss a ton, wish I didn't give away my graphic pad so I can use it whenever my screenless tablet is feeling too uncomfortable.
>>
>>3937515
Same camp but I have a Surface with an active screen surface of like 11 in. Maybe if I could buy an arm for it I could position it in some more comfortable way but really I'd rather upgrade to a 22in+ screenless tablet.
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>>3935298
Maybe you need a mouse with a screen on it to use it properly, you fucking retard?
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>>3935298
Steven Crowder is a faggot.
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>>3940213
>Anon thought this would offend me

LOL. It's just a meme

>>3939275
"screenless camp"

LOL like if you wouldn't switch if you had a choice.
>>
I went back to my intous from my cintique because my hand obstructs parts of the screen and it's bad for the ergonomy of my wrist.
Why do you feel the need to convince people that your opinion is right OP?
>>
>>3940222
Why are you trying so hard to be a snowflake, anon?
>>
>>3935298
lmao it takes maybe 3 days to be fully attuned to your tablet from never touching one before.

but if you need to drop 1k+ to draw on a fancy screen. go for it bud

they all do the same thing. anyone who thinks their tools makes the artist will never make it
>>
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>>3935298



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