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File: INDIA.jpg (66 KB, 584x522)
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Did muslims really bring civilization to india?
>>
Timur was based and did nothing wrong.
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>>97214372
no, your thinking of Britain
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>>97214554
i think they make it worse
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>>97214572
They outlawed shit like widows being burned alive on their husband's funeral pyres and tried to outlaw shit like child marriage. They also heavily developed India's infrastructure and industry. All the Muslims did (i.e. the Mughals) was plunder the country and rule it as conquerors.
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>>97214599
if we are going to talk about western colonization, i think the portugese were better
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>>97214628
Portugal only possessed a tiny amount of India compared to Britain.
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>>97214646
doesnt change the fact that it would have been better if india was colonized by Portugal
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>>97214661
What justification do you have for this? At the very least the British had a stronger opposition to immoral practices than Portugal (it was the British that first abolished slavery). Portugal was only into the colonisation game for profits, whereas the British at least partially believed in the goal of civilizing and advancing other cultures.
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>>97214599
This. We always gave them their railways, cricket, the English language, their common law legal system and parliamentary democracy. British colonialism is the greatest thing to ever happen to India, but those street-shitting degenerates are too proud to admit it.
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>>97214701
catholicism
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>>97214661
Name one successful Portuguese colony. Just one. I'll wait.
>>
You go too far. The Muslim conquest of India claimed 30,000,000–40,000,000 people's lives.
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>>97214729
I... I can't.
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>>97214721
What does that have to do with colonialism? Four of the most successful former colonies in the world - the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - are predominantly Protestant (and all were British colonies). Meanwhile look at the state of former Spanish and Portuguese colonies in comparison.
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>>97214729
dang it
i guess the portugese didnt find empty places to send settlers like the british in north america
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>>97214599
>self-righteously imposing my arbitrary cultural values on other people
>justify subjugation with specious arguments and rationalizations
W-We're making your lives better, guys.
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>>97214729
Brazil?
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>>97214372
I don't think so as evident by the fact that every single muslim country is a shithole
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>>97214808
2/10
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>>97214803
You think India would have been better off under the boot of the equally foreign and high-handed Islamic Mughals? At least the British made token attempts at civilization; other conquerors didn't even bother.
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>>97214773
India has more people in it than the rest of the colonised world we made a decent country out of it, so that line of argument is out.
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>>97214808
Huehuehue.
>>
>>97214803
keeeek fucking shitskin moron
ok you know what i agree actaully, thousands of years of reflexion and civilization is "arbitrary", i say we let you keep being cannibals instead, this is what you deserve, in no way white people should elevate you to being a human being bc yu don't deservre ti
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>>97214372
Not enough, apparently
>>
although i dislike catholicism, i think India would have been much better if it was a catholic country
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>>97214729
Goa's still the best part of India by far.
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>>97214854
Your overarching assumption is precisely the issue with your argument: *civilization* as being an emergent phenomenon of adopting appropriate values -- more specifically, tracing the social genealogy of *civilization* betrays the very circularity of what it means to be a civilization. In a western society, I subscribe to western values -- those of a civilization --, and the values of a civilization happen to be western values.
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>>97215033
You unironically sound like a sociology faggot.
>>
>>97214832
I personally don't think conquest/colonization is ever useful, but the implication of this:

>They outlawed shit like widows being burned alive on their husband's funeral pyres and tried to outlaw shit like child marriage.

is that the British were making their lives better -- something with which I disagree.
>>
>>97215013
Actually Kerala is. But Goa is still pretty good compared to the rest of that shithole country. Especially the north.
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>>97215098
So you think India would be better off with practises like forced self-immolation of widows and rampant child marriage of girls?
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>>97215136
you see
India under portugese dominance would have been better, probably just like brazil, but at least they would not shit on the streets
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>>97214701
>Portugal was only into the colonisation game for profits, whereas the British at least partially believed in the goal of civilizing and advancing other cultures.


I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians
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>>97215176
>I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians
thats spaniard propaganda
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>>97215033
i agree you you are a massive faggot, but beyong that you are a politically motivated moron with 0 objectivity whatsoever, you assume i say western civilization is the master etalon of civilization and there's nothing besides it but it's not even the case
yes like it or not there are such things as objective values, for example you don't shit where you eat, even animals don't do it, 2nd rate civlizations certainly don't do it, however indians do, objectively you are below evenanimals
besides you ignore hygiene and science completely bt whatever

now i am waiting for you to explain to me how shitting where you eat can be good if you are open-minded and it's all a matter of point of view anyways lmao
>>
>>97214711
Lad, India was 20% of world GDP before colonialism and 2% after. The railways and infrastructure were built for extracting wealth not storing it in India.

You have a rose tinted view of colonialism and need to consider if you would accept being colonised by an imperial power.
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>>97215176
When Anglos don't have a king they become genocidal.
See: Jolly Olly's treatment of Irishmen.
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>>97214372
Muslims destroyed our civilization. They destroyed our Universities of Nalanda and Taxshila. They killed philosophers and other scholars. They burnt our libraries.
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>>97215255
Sorry pajeet
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>>97215176
>I thought the British were the one who exterminated the Amerindians
No, that was mostly the American colonists. For much of the 18th century the British were opposed to the expansion of colonial lands further west (one of the reasons for the American Revolution starting).
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>>97215255
The Mughal were based though.
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>>97214729
>Name one successful Portuguese colony.

Macau has a per capita income of $80k and has one of the highest standard of living in the world. Of course none of this is because of the Portuguese and it has to do with tremendous rise of China's economy.
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>>97215278
British are truly angelic people.
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>>97214599
Brits destroyed Indian manufacturing industries. Indian cotton clothes used to be best in world and were worn by elites in Europe. Brits cut the thumbs of Indian weavers', set up mechanical weaving factories in England and imported cotton from India at very cheap rate thus themselves becoming the best exporters of cotton clothes.
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>>97215140
I think these things aren't *wrong* if you consider them in a vacuum. Suppose 99% of the population is wiped out and the remaining 1% survive -- but they're separated across large distances. These two groups, A and B, then reproduce and their children are left to fend for themselves. In one of these new societies, say A, suppose there is a custom X which isn't sufficient for survival but necessary -- think something like burying the dead. This custom will invariably lead to the propagation of other similar customs that aren't sufficient for survival either but necessary nonetheless. If we consider this chain indefinitely, namely: X_1 -> X_2 -> X_3 -> X_N, there is a point at which if I am from society B and I visit society A I am baffled by X_N. I'm not baffled by X_N because it is perplexing or irrational in itself, I'm baffled by X_N because I've not had a chance to understand the sophistication of the social progression which brought it unto society A.
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>>97215344
how do you deal with the shit streeting jokes?
for example i feel bad when my country is only known for being violent
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>>97214372
No they had already existing civilizations but they also didnt destroy it.
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>>97215347
Okay now I know you're trolling. I wasn't sure at first. Never mind.
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>>97215290
Only Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar was based. Others were tyrants.
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>>97214701
Portugal was actually the first to abolish slavery
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>>97215384
Euros also used to shit outside untill last century. I don't live among wh*toids so don't care about what do they think of us.
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>>97215344
They fucked the industry in places like Calcutta but expanded growing into western india.
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>>97215396
Your argument seems to be that the prevailing eurocentric weltanschauung has, through trial and error or some objective, verifiable methodological process, decisively selected the "right" values for a society to adopt.
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>>97215474
where in india do you live???
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>>97215195

Honest question:
Do you think there are subtleties to French culture/language that would take me years/a lifetime to understand?

Yes?

Why not learn someone else's language or learn about their culture in a participatory way and find out.
>>
>>97215474
No they didnt. They had the toilet for the upper classes and outhouses in most places. Where they didnt and at night they used chamber pots. No one is shktting outside in the elements in the middle of the winter of northern europe. Hell even the Romans had kind of communal outhouses.
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>>97214701
Goa was part of metropolitan Portugal. Goans were given same rights as mainland Portuguese citizens. While Indian empire was different from United Kindom within the British Empire and native Indians were treated as second class citizens. Also brits had setup Princely States in which the puppet kings had absolute power on the people of those states and those kings abused that power.
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>>97215166
india is sending satellites to mars
what is brazil doing?
>>
https://youtu.be/5ieJyGRI4wE

Thank you based Muhammed.
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>>97214991
maybe you should shut the fuck up
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>>97215601
yes
yes sure and i already have done so for anglosaxon "culture" needless to say i was pretty disappointed after a few years, next time i will pick a better culture to get interested about, idk, maybe german
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>>97215585
Punjab
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>>97214661
Read what happened to those who lived in Goa
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>>97215651
do you live close to pakistan?
thats crazy
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>>97215640
Maybe try something where the people "shit where they eat," and you might learn something.

At the very worst you'll be disappointed again.
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>>97215622
based comment
>>
It probably did


See Mughal empire
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>>97215617
Upper classes were also using toilets from centuries. Harrapns also built toilets in their cities thousands of years ago. But peasants shat outside. I doubt that European peasants had toilets until last century.
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>>97215685
i insult you and now you want me to come learn indian and eat food with my hands or whatever ? why ? you are masochistic ? so then you can insult me for being a hipster a few years down the line ?
i went to india it was pretty in some places but also fucking filthy and full of morons, it reminds me of france too much

anyways i'm not sure i am that interested in living in india, i looked into learning an asian language but clearly that would be chinese not indian sorry
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>>97215678
Yes I live close to Pakistan's Punjab. It's sad that A*glos divided Punjab in two before going.
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>>97215786
i wish you could get along with China, and end that non sense rivalry
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>>97214599
all of those things are based you stupid soyboy.
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>>97214729
your mom's womb
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>>97215803
India and China used to be good friends but then India gave refuge to Dalai Lama and Tibetan people. This triggered Mao and the friendship ended. I wish India and China becomes friends like the old days.
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>>97215879
>then India gave refuge to Dalai Lama and Tibetan people
this was a mistake, just imagine if the chinese gave refugee to kashmir separatists
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>>97215879
Impossible for now, India is competing to be at the same level of Chinese economy and living quality of Canton so the government can't help but feel competitive against China. Also we have this West vs. China ordeal building up for the next few years.
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>>97215949
China and India is bound to have conflicts due to territorial claims anyway.
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>>97215949
That's literally what they do. They fund Maoist separatist rebels in India's North-East.
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>>97216013
has the indian government accused China because of that?
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>>97215949
Chinese were erasing Tibetan culture during it's cultural revolution. Tibet had always been good friends with Indians and their culture is heavily influenced by the philosophies from Nalanda, which were erased from India during Turkic invasions. So we were the only one who they expected to protect them and their culture.
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>>97215982
China didn't disputed borders with India until rufuge thing.
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>India on the verge of becoming a super power
>Indians are the most populous race
>Indians are the richest in America
>Indians hold the most medicine related, engineering, and business degrees
If anything Muslims were responsible for regression in India
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>>97217201
>>Indians are the richest in America
i thought it was the joos
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>>97214991
India would be the most interesting part of the world to blend with Abrahamic religion, and I feel like Catholic Christianity is the best method of doing that, but still it sounds like a breeding ground for total heresy with people mixing elements of Hinduism into it. I don't trust the current Church higher ups to handle India responsibly desu considering how poorly they're handling China.
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>>97217473
maybe chinese catholics should not be counter revolutionaries hehe
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>>97217270
>implying the richest people want to be seen as the richest
idc what community's the richest but protip it's a thousand times easier to pretend you are the poorest possible to avoid taxes then pay everything with your company's money, tax dpts are useless and all accountants are corrupt, absolutely everyone does it

off topic but a funny creative one someone told me about recently is humanitarian shit
what you give to a ngo is in large part deducted from taxes so you fund one yourself (in that persons case it was to teach kids how to read in vietnam or some shit like this) then you put a shitton of money into it
then 90% of the money goes to buying luxury travel hotel restaurant visits and so on everyday for the members, you just get someone to legalize it
if you are lucky you can even convince morons into giving you more money on top of that ahaha
>>
We'd have industrialized, with or without the British Empire's "help".
I'm not gonna argue about the specifics because as far as I am concerned, that shit happened long ago and I can't be arsed to argue with all the "muh 20% gdp", "muh trains and industry".
All I'm going to say is that Independent India had just under 20% literacy rate. Had to deal with casteism which Ima tell you right now, was exacerbated and manipulated by the British to control a large part of the Indian populace.

India is like what, 71 years old? It's quite young for a country that had to deal with a lot of fucking shit.

Don't see why people care, really. India's irrelevant and will take time to properly develop because we have over 1 billion people, most of them in rural areas.
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>>97218414
>We'd have industrialized

Wew. How many Indians are living in Mexico?
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>>97218414
hmm
are you an indian living in mexico?
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>>97218414
what are you doing in Mexico?
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>>97218450
we apparently have 15,000 of them living here
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>>97214628
>>97214661
And yet every moortuguese colony is a shithole today. Same with the spanish colonies.
>iberians
>good colonisers
Pick one
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>>97214803
>dude morality is all like relative you can't like judge other people maaann
>fuck you for enforcing your morals on them. Don't you know that's morally wrong
Can't stand brainlets like you.
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>>97218545
did the british tried to civilize natives as much as iberians did?
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>>97215651
Kidhaaa
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>>97218414
is this the bong style colonialism?
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>>97217795
Why would you pretend to be poor lol
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>>97214754
this has to be edited, how can average number of language spoken be below 1, that basically means that some portion of their population doesn't speak any language at all
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>>97218450
Don't know. He does apparently >>97218535

>>97218499


>>97218516
Chillin'. Taking spanish classes at UNAM while I figure out where to do my Masters.
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>>97218702
stupid newbie
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>>97218720
¿por que alguien de la India vendría a este país?
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>>97218583
Who gives a fuck about the natives?
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>>97215013
>He actually believes this
Goa isn't even close to being best part of India. It's mostly a rural backwater. Portugese did barely anything to develop it.
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>>97214701
>whereas the British at least partially believed in the goal of civilizing and advancing other cultures.
lol, fuck no.
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>>97218932
i liek this poster
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>>97214759
Australia has never been predominantly Protestant, anon. The majority of Christfags have been and still are, Catholics.
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>>97214832
We defeated mughals anyways. We were literally this close to subjugating islamic polity from our land before anglos showed up.
>>
North India is actually a shithole compared to south India so no
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>>97218924
well, if iberians have conquered empty places and sent settlers there, i guess those parts would not look so bad
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>>97218932
judging by the pics, it doesnt look that bad, compared to other parts
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>>97219090
Neither does Himachal, Uttrakhand, Gujarat and pretty much any state in India that lies outside gangetic plain. Fact is goa's wealth is mostly recent due to mining boon and tourism. At the time of independance it was nothing more than a rural village. Portugese built no infra whatsoever, apart from a few churches.
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>>97219066
agreed, it can't fail actually
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>>97214372
India did not exist tell then
but if were talking about the Indian subcontinent spefically the North West part(Northern India,Afghanistan and Pakistan)
the are that is now Pakistan and Afghanistan were the hub of Buddhism
pic related is one of the earliest depictions of the Buddha and this was made in the area that is now Pakistan
Arabs fucked that up,destroyed all the statues,forced conversion,destroyed the people living their
most Pakistani's and Afghans have no Idea about this past
to them history began with the Mughals
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>>97219015
you mean this
Hindus got their Kingdom in what is now central and Northern India,Muslims got theirs Kingdom to live in and Sikhs got theirs
these were the best borders for the Indian subcontinent
it took hundreds of years of war and millions dead
>>
just discovered that communists are ruling Kerala
>>
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>Tipu Sultan (born Sultan Fateh Ali Sahab Tipu,[2] 20 November 1750 – 4 May 1799), also known as the Tipu Sahib,[3] was a ruler of the Kingdom of Mysore. He was the eldest son of Sultan Hyder Ali of Mysore.[4] Tipu Sultan introduced a number of administrative innovations during his rule,[5] including his coinage, a new Mauludi lunisolar calendar,[6] and a new land revenue system which initiated the growth of the Mysore silk industry.[7] He expanded the iron-cased Mysorean rockets and commissioned the military manual Fathul Mujahidin, and is considered a pioneer in the use of rocket artillery.[8] He deployed the rockets against advances of British forces and their allies during the Anglo-Mysore Wars, including the Battle of Pollilur and Siege of Seringapatam. He also embarked on an ambitious economic development program that established Mysore as a major economic power, with some of the world's highest real wages and living standards in the late 18th century
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>>97219313
i guess islam is not really that bad,
they get the thots patrolled, stone the homos and they dislike degeneracy
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>>97219031
Why do you say this?
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>>97219468
no homo
>>
Muslims in India just destroyed the country in an attempt to spread their cancer religion. At least the British set up railways and shit (even if it was mainly so they could extract wealth from the country).
>>
>>97219708
In terms of economic prosperity, Turkic Muslim rule was better than British colonial rule. In terms of individual freedom, British colonial rule was better for non-muslims.
>>
>>97219768
well Babur and Humayun were Persianized Turkic
but starting from Akbar the rest all had Rajput or Punjabi mothers and had no link with their ancestors homeland in central Asia
>>
> bring civilization to India
> implying India is civilized
>>
>>97214599
Why would Muslims outlaw child marriage?
Not trying to meme, but it just seems out of character.
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>>97219768
tell us why
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>>97219879
i think he means brits outlawed it
still ironic
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>>97214661
based and Hollypilled.
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>>97214729
Goa, Nagasaki, Brasil, Mallaca etc...
>>
>>97214372
The abbasids themselves considered parts India to have great culture. So no.
>>
>>97215292
Macau was super rich when it was given back to Spain, we built everything we could there just like the Capital of the Orient Goa.
Macau had banks, roads, casinos when the Portuguese gave it up even in 1999 the last year of occupation we would get dozens of thousands of peole attempting to enter Macau to live.
The fifth empire was blessed by God
>>
>>97215618
This Goans are Portuguese and enjoyed better standards of living then most people in Asia today.
>>
>>97218961
Retard. They did. That's why they didn't merely set up rulers and officials like other colonial empires, they mixed Anglos into them and changed their cultures.
>>
they teach them to poo in streets
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>>97219001
It's majority protestants and back in the day probably even more so. Half of our protestants are Anglicans anyway, the rest a scattering of small denominations.
>>
>>97214372
They didn't bring civilization anywhere. And steal accomplishments of others, claim to hate Jews when they act just like them except call non Muslims kaffir instead of goyim.

They claim their religion is the truth yet reading the Quran and sahih Bukhari it is full of scientific errors and contradictions, it is no wonder why they have death penalty for apostasy.

If you claim your religion is the truth and kill people that disagree you are a massive beta cuck and also prove your religion is false. Mohammed is burning in hell as we speak.
>>
>>97214754
Wrong french people can barely speak their own, and absolutely HATE learning other languages
>>
tell me more about the sitar
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>>97214372
Im from rajesthan near pakistan ama
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>>97220969
could you post a pic?
>>
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>>97221015
Like this
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>>97221147
a pic of your city/village whatever it is
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>>97221203
Barmer
>>
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>>97221320
This is almost exactly what ancestoral villages look like
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>>97221320
>>97221340
arent you afraid that there might be a war between india and pakistan?
>>
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>>97221340
Desert roads
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>>97221351
Very unlikely.
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>>97214372
India made a definition of the zero (math) given by babylonians and was able to do wootz (real damascus) in 300AD.
Arabs (not muslims) stole those inventions in the 8th century.
Then now, they pretend to be the OP of the zero. That is wrong.

Oh and remember that islam is a religion, not a nation...
>>
>>97221379
how true are the memes that you shit on the streets
>>
>>97215474
We didn't shit on streets and 100 years ago toiltes were already normal ion cities and pit toiltetes normal in rural places.
>>
>>97221442
They're true. I study in a medical university and right next to it is an open sewer and people shit in it publicly some people sleep in it too
>>
>>97219917
Wealth generated in country stayed within the country during Muslim rule and cottage industries thrived. So economy was better off. During British rule the wealth generated was extracted and sent out of country to UK's treasury and local cottage industries were discouraged and importing of goods from UK was encouraged which reduced India's exports and increased imports which dragged many into poverty.
>>
indis would be cooler if they werent shitting on the streets, then cleaning their ass with their hands and then esting in the same street floor. honestly what the fuck?
>>
>>97221504
Ohh please tell me you havent done that
>>
>>97221504
Rajasthan is fucked up.
>>
>>97221547
>British colonial rule was better for non-muslims.
And what about this, did hindus live better than muslims during the colonial era?
>>
>>97221555
It's mostly confined to the poor and uneducated low-castes. I'm from a high caste, and nobody in my strata or above shits on the street.
>>
>>97221550
Si tan solo la india hubiera sido colonizado por España o Portugal
>>
>>97221590
During Muslim rule non-muslims had to pay jizya, had pressure to convert to islam, were sometime massacred, under blasphemy law if a muslim accused any non-muslim of blasphemy againt islam even without any proof then they were tortured and killed. Brits had no interest in converting people and didn't persecuted anyone for their religion. Both hindus and muslims had less freedom than now but hindus and sikhs were less persecuted than before.
>>
>>97214372
yeah, it fixed the classism
>>
>>97221547
The Muslims wanted your Souls The bongs your money desu.
>>
>>97214372
There was civilisation here long before any of the Abrahamic religions existed.
There will be civilisation here long after all the Abrahamic religions die.
>>
>>97225046
>There will be civilisation here long after all the Abrahamic religions die.

>what is the Samson Option
>>
>>97218569
There's something charming about the untempered self-assurance with which you oversimplify an incredibly complex sociological and philosophical issue. Notwithstanding your exuberance, it's important to note that there's much more nuance to this discussion than the dichotomous objective moralists vs cultural relativists camps that where glossed over in your PHIL101 course.

I'd suggest at the very least considering the arguments posed in the chain above, namely this one: >>97215347

Hope this helps
>>
>>97214372
you need to literally kys Juan

India was one of the birthplaces of civilization, imagine asking this question
>>
>>97219313
Stfu u retarded chinkoid Tipu Sultan forcibly converted and circumcised thousands of captured Hindus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Nairs_at_Seringapatam
In his letter to the Governor ofBekal, Budruz Zaman Khan, in the year 1200 AH (1785 AD), Tipu approved of forced conversions of Nairs:[13]

"Your two letters, with the enclosed memorandums of the Nâimâ (Nair) captives, have been received. You did right in causing a hundred and thirty-five of them to be circumcised, and in putting eleven of the youngest of these into the Usud Ilhye band, and the remaining ninety-four into the Ahmedy troops, consigning the whole, at the same time, to the charge of theKiladarofNugr(Bednore).

They set fire to thePadinalkanadutemple
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Nairs_at_Seringapatam
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus
>>
>>97217201
>Indian race

They are mutts of early CHG/Zagros migrants + native abos + Yamna Aryans (who themselves had plenty of CHG admixture).
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>>97214372
>Did muslims really bring civilization to india?
no, this is a laughable notion entertained by absolutely no one
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>>97214599
why do you eat up British propaganda straight out of their asshole?
>>
>>97214400
Timur was a a subhuman who send back the muslim world by a thousand years

Everyone blames the Mongols for the destruction but it was actually this sunhuman that destroyed thr middle east
>>
>>97214599
>They outlawed shit like widows being burned alive on their husband's funeral pyres and tried to outlaw shit like child marriage
lol they only did so at the behest of liberal indians
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>>97214754
>Cant speaktugal
>>
indians are ugly smelly shitskins





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