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Let's say you went back in time with working examples and technical drawings and specs.

Could you fabricate copies of an AK-47 and its ammunition with the technology and metallurgy available in late Republican to early Imperial era Rome?
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Probably not, but maybe a simple breach loader like a trap door or a Remington rolling block
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>>35414982
Ammunition production alone would be pretty bad. Looking at a LOT of fail to fire and clearing
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>>35415081
They were able to work brass, though, weren't they? And bullets can rather easily be molded from lead. I imagine the best that could be made with historical tech would be insanely crude, but I imagine it would fire and be reasonably accurate out to javelin range.
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>>35415081
This, early single-shot cartridge weapons prioritized safety in the event of case rupture for a reason. It happened A LOT.
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It takes a year to make a japanese sword.
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I would say that making an AK would not be possible. You would need to produce the proper tooling to make either a stamped or milled receiver and the capacity for doing either is impossible metallurgically at that time.
You're barely producing homogenous and good quality carbon steel. I can't imagine anything other than a matchlock being capable for the romans.
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>>35415288
That's only true if you need to mass-produce them. To simply produce one by hand with hand tools and a backyard forge is entirely possible. Pic highly related.

[spoiler]I don't know if they could produce a rifled barrel, though.[/spoiler]
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>>35414982
no
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>>35414982
Considering the period if you had designs for a working flintlock and gunpowder you could conquer the known world.
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>>35415623

Dude, it took centuries and a shit load of volume for gunpowder to conquer anything. A flintlock isn't going to impress anyone except for the VERY FIRST army you come across. And good luck with sieges on fortified settlements, even IF you could come up with enough gunpowder to actually damage walls.
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>>35415731
>And good luck with sieges on fortified settlements, even IF you could come up with enough gunpowder to actually damage walls.
Gunpowder is piss-easy to make, anon, and bombards immediately invalidated castle walls when they came into widespread use.
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>>35415731
sieges are why you would design cannons
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>>35415753
>bombards immediately invalidated castle walls
It actually took a few centuries.

>>35415623
More likely you'd grow rapidly at first, but then you'd start facing even more crude copies of it in the field. There is no useful tech that doesn't eventually get copied by the enemy in war. Someone, somewhere, is going to either figure out the secrets behind it or torture them out of someone who knows, and someone, somewhere, is going to drop their musket or rifle on the field due to a lucky arrow or javelin or cavalry charge or whatever.
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>>35414982
The general series by David Drake and Eric Flint
Rifling is hard. Go be a faggot somewhere else.
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>>35414982
They didn't have steel so no
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>>35415829
Steelmaking goes back to early antiquity you fucking retard. By the time of the Roman Empire steel was over a millennia old.
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>>35414982
You would still have to show them how to make effective, reliable gun powder first, until you do that there's no reason to worry about building anything. At the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 A.D., gunpowder was still 350+ years away from being invented.
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>>35414982
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>>35416041
>You would still have to show them how to make effective, reliable gun powder first,
That seems perfectly feasible to do with Roman technology, only their knowledge was lacking.
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>>35414982
Modern firearms wouldn't work. You wouldn't be able to make modern smokeless powder and even if you could, you wouldn't be able to forge a steel strong enough to handle it.

To their credit, ancient people were capable of some damn impressive achievements that are often taken for granted. Take the Antikythera mechanism, for example.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
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Often had these fantasies since I'm a mechanical engineer.

You'd have to do 5-10 years worth of shit setting up machinery to build better machinery just to get yourself to the point where you can make a half-assed AK-47 clone. Plus metallurgy will be shit unless you know anything about materials engineering as well as getting furnaces to consistently produce enough heat to completely liquefy steel (fires in the day usually couldn't reach the temp or took days).
Until then, >>35415110 is the best you can do.
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>>35416837
Modern powder isn't strictly necessary. A very crude smokeless powder could be made with nitric acid, cotton, and niter, all things Romans had. It'd foul like a bitch compared to modern gunpowder but it would fire the gun and work the action.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTy3uQFsirk

Making firearms before the industrial era took a lot of work.
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>>35415327
Tell me how you could make clean cut lugs on the bolt and a solid groove for them to ride in in the trunnion
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>>35414982
What we would call steel today wasn't invented till the 17th century. Theirs we're all very poor quality with varying strength so have fun with that receiver that might explode on you
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>>35414982
>Ammunition
Fun thing about Rome, they made fucking everything out of lead. Including the piping to their aqueducts. And the pots they'd use to store water in.
So as far as raw materials go, you're good.
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>>35415216
And?
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IMO the biggest problem is the social acceptance of new technology. For starters you're going to be an outsider so even if you could speak the local language there's a chance they'll just burn you at the stake for bringing along a new idea.
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>>35417096
Very carefully.
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>>35417102
Steel existed before the Bessamer process. Just not in today's huge quantities.
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>>35414982

You'd be better off introducing them to the breechloading flintlock rifle. It's JUST within their manufactutring capability and is useful enough that it will reset the balance of power where a musket or lesser firearm would not.

>>35417135
good luck getting drawn and formed brass casings. You *might* be able to ge brass foil cases like the shit the brits used to use during the Zulu war, but getting ANYONE in that primitive a set of conditions to make stable mercury fulmante, lead (II) azide or lead styphenate is highly unlikely.
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>>35415101
Pilum range was about 15 feet.
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>>35415790
>There is no useful tech that doesn't eventually get copied by the enemy in war.
Sure. But unless they know the secret to makeing BP, then their muskets are for naught.
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>>35415818
INVENTING rifling is hard. Making rifling machines and manning them with three shifts of slaves to turn out barrels is pretty easy. Expensive, but easy.
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>>35417276
see >>35415790
>Someone, somewhere, is going to either figure out the secrets behind it or torture them out of someone who knows
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>>35415851
not all steels are created equal. Try making your AK out of damascus steel and see what happens.
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>>35416041
>>35416708
The romans made alchemical cement that was at least equal in durability to modern concrete. I see no reason they couldn't make black powder is someone showed them the process and taught them the recipe.
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smdh if you go back in time with blueprints for [future thing] but don't also bring [prerequisite technology to build future thing]
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>>35414982
Could I? fuck no.

If I got the emperor, a governor, or a particularly rich Roman on board to help me out? Yes. It would take a LOT of money to get them to set up a shop with a Bessemer converter and then even more money to actually make tooling to make tooling to make tooling to make guns. We'd be building two thousand years of infrastructure in a very short timespan. It would be much more difficult in the medieval era, but Rome could do it if they knew how.

It'd be better to ease them into it though. Doubt there would even be a point to smokeless powder guns. What is the enemy going to do, shoot back? Fuck no. The range and repeating capabilities of smokeless guns are non-factors. Warfare is already waged at melee range by necessity. So just give Caesar break action shotguns. Maybe cannons too, I'm not really sure how to make them though. Cast brass and be very careful to test the loads incrementally I guess so I don't kaboom myself I guess.

If the Romans don't murder you then and there for being too powerful to leave alone, you'll be set for life. The lines meet and then instead of opening up with a volley of pilums followed by a charge, the Romans just unleash fucking hell and instantly clear the field. Can you even imagine facing a gun for the first time and having no fucking idea what it is? Just the noise and smoke would be terrifying, but the noise followed by seeing so many people just immediately drop dead, no armor or shields doing anything to prevent the carnage. No chance to fight back, no glory to win, dying before the battle has even begun. You would run. I would run.
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>>35415216
because the nips use a back-asswards techniquie for turning a shit sword into a work of art that compare unfavorably with european swords that can be made in a couple of weeks.
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>>35414982
>Could you fabricate copies of an AK-47 and its ammunition with the technology and metallurgy available in late Republican to early Imperial era Rome?

Considering they have no machining capability, fuck no. Do you even know how guns are made?
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>>35417289
>not creating a religion around gunpowder production, where only crippled mute eunuchs marked for death produce it in a prison fortress temple
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>>35415216
>glorious nippon steel folded over 1000 times
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>>35415101
You're forgetting how expensive it would be. Everything would be hand worked, hand fit. And the mining will also be much much more expensive.
You could probably make a gun, with brass cases but nobody could afford to field an army with them.
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>>35417289
Sure. and then they have to spend years learning how to get their process down and how to clean the impurities out of the raw materials and a whole host of other problems. Shit, the making of gunpowder-grade charcoal is an art form that can take decades to learn and requires a huge industral base to produce in large quantities.
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>>35417350
see >>35415327
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>>35417387
OP here. Could you explain more? I thought charcoal was just charcoal, and I know the Romans had that.

>>35417382
I realize they're not going to open a factory of them without sufficiently advancing prerequisite tech to that point, but I want to know if even single examples could be handmade.

>>35417310
What WOULD happen?
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>>35417253
Why even bother with breechloading? That's more complexity than is necessary, as is rifling. Flintlock muskets would be more than sufficient and significantly easier to manufacture in the quantity necessary to equip an army.
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>>35417314

they made fucking roads that have lasted to the present day. Not just as "oh there's a real fucked up jumble of stones over there that must have been something at one time" but still serviceable to this very day. Roads that outlasted their creators, their sons, their sons, their son's sons. They lasted when the Romans were kicked out of North Africa by the Vandals. And they were still there when the Eastern Roman Empire reconquered it. And they withstood the Muslim conquests. Even though everything else was destroyed, the roads remained. Entire cities disappeared, with roads running through what little remains of their rubble. Roads Romans haven't walked in nearly two thousand years still lie there, and will for two thousand more.

I forget what point I wanted to make but goddamn anyone who underestimates Roman technological capability had best check themself.

>>35417421
>What WOULD happen?
I think anon is talking about damascus as in an old shotgun manufacturing technique, which was not damascus steel nor was it even steel. It was generally a mix of steel and shitty iron, that with weak black powder shotgun loads was (probably) safe. With modern gunpowder it will blow the fuck apart all over the place.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2016/11/14/gun-safety-damascus-barreled-shotguns/

If you had actual Damascus, as in crucible steel...well you might be ok. Maybe. I wouldn't want to test the integrity of the steel though, if it decides to de-weld you are fucked. I figure a few shots would be fine, but as it heats up you are in for some trouble. And goddamn do AKs like to heat up. I don't know enough about the characteristics of Damascus steel to say for sure, but I sure as fuck would not want to shoot that shit.
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>>35417452
There are some bridges built by the Romans in some European towns that are still in use today. Not even as like, a historical monument sort of deal, just that the bridge is there and useful, and nobody ever bothered to replace it because it's still structurally sound. Cars drive over bridges built in the BC era every day.
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>>35414982
Probably not unless you also brought back information on metallurgy.
Remember that rifles from before black powder often couldn't withstand smokeless and you're talking about using a smokeless design.
Honestly the impact from improving their metallurgy that much would be far more relevant to their stance as a world power than introducing impossible-to-mass-produce firearms.

>>35417452
Those roads still exist because they paid the huge fucking expenditures, not because of amazing technical aptitude. A medieval nation could have replicated them, it just would have been too expensive.
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>>35417452
The roads are just stones set in a pit. They'll be there forever, barring a specific effort to remove them or something specific like that.
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No, it would be completely impossible.

You'd need to at a minimum bring back a relatively large team of engineers, chemists, geologists, glassblowers, technology historians, etc. to invent all the intermediate metallurgical and chemistry techniques and equipment required.

A matchlock gun would be possible, but you'd still need to send someone relatively well-versed in the technology and theory to explain it all.

>>35415101
>They were able to work brass, though, weren't they?
Hitting brass with a hammer is not the same as drawing brass with hundreds of tonnes of pressure.

>>35415327
>Pic highly related.
No it's not. He made a bit of box steel, he skipped all of the hard parts.

>>35417284
>Making rifling machines and manning them with three shifts of slaves to turn out barrels is pretty easy.
Without the technology and expertise to make really straight bits of metal, really precise cuts, etc. it's really hard.
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>>35417492
>really hard.
Romans did really hard things for breakfast. Anything less than "physically impossible" should be considered "doable," at least on the small scale.
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>>35417421
>I thought charcoal was just charcoal
Gunpowder-grade charcoal is a pather pure form of charcoal that contains little to no non-volatile compounds. This is not the easiest thing to do outside of a lab or industrial setting specifically tooled to make charcoal. Using inferior charcoal in the making of BP reults in slower burn times (i.e. weaker powder) and signifigantly higher level of fouling.

>What WOULD happen?
Damascus (or any pattern-weld steel for that matter) tends to delaminate while under pressure. You can see this in some older shotguns. Beautiful bastards; but if shotgun chamber pressures will cause them to deform, delaminate and explode, you know sure as fuck that a high-pressure rifle round will do it.

>>35417434
Because a smoothbore musket compares unfavorably with the longbow for both RoF and effective range A rifled musket (especially using Minnie balls) has the range to match thebow while a breechloader brings the RoF up to something that will make an archer formation useless.
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But that's forbidden degeneracy
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>>35417481
>Those roads still exist because they paid the huge fucking expenditures, not because of amazing technical aptitude.

Sure, if they knew how. By and large, they did not. Second, not having the money and labor capability is very much a symptom of theirinferiority. Just like they theoretically could arm and equip a massive, professional army. They knew how to pay people and make swords and armor. Except absolutely no medieval nation actually could, only in theory. Any third world nation could make a nuclear power plant. The theory and knowledge is out there. Except that only goes so far. And Israeli commandos will likely come in and kill everyone involved every once in a while if you happen to be muslim, but still.
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>>35414982
>Could you fabricate copies of an AK-47 and its ammunition with the technology and metallurgy available in late Republican to early Imperial era Rome?

VERY unlikely. Modern repeatable steel is not simple to make, even though we make it look easy.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/rifles/ar-15/guide-to-gun-metal/

Note: Even ordinance steels, in the world of steel grades, is pretty tame stuff compared to what they make high-end knives out of. Powder Metallurgy M4 is basically science-fiction.
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>>35417492
>Without the technology and expertise to make really straight bits of metal, really precise cuts, etc. it's really hard
I have plans to build a wooden rifling machine. None of it requires tech more advanced than the saw or hammer and nails. You can build one in a weekend.
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>>35417497
Not like this they didn't. Most of their "really hard" achievements were really hard because of the amount of labour involved.

So yeah, it'd be really hard.

>>35417517
So you're going to cut the grooves with a wooden button or something, are you?

Also, even nails were expensive and crude as fuck back then.
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>>35417481
>A medieval nation could have replicated them, it just would have been too expensive
No, they couldn't. The secret of making the cement moarter used was lost about the time Rome fell. similarly, the romans had siege engines and the rest of europe didn't for several hundred years after Rome fell. The french pretty much wound up reinventing siege engines.
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Post yfw you are a soldier in the first army to face a flintlock-equipped Legion
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>>35417586
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>>35417570
>the rest of europe didn't for several hundred years after Rome fell
Why does everybody forget that the Roman Empire lasted for another fucking thousand years after that? And yes, they totally had siege engines.
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>>35414982
Probably not. I mean stainless steel wasn't even a thing since chromium wasn't even discovered then.
Maybe if you completely over built it then yes.
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>>35417527
>even nails were crude as fuck back then

It's an iron spike. Modern square nails are indistinguishable.

FYI, the reason round wire nails are common isn't because they're superior nails. They're inferior. But they're also much cheaper to make mechanically.
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>>35417570
The meme that the fall of Rome led to a thousand-year dark age until the Renaissance in which mankind collectively forgot everything and didn't advance at all has been debunked for decades, anon. Early middle ages forces dropped the ballista as too complicated to make, but they did use onagers and catapults and later mangonels, which led to the trebuchet. At no point did Europeans stop using siege engines.
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>>35417597

pfft, nothing east of Austria actually exists anon. The Eastern Roman Empire is a myth made up by drunken Italian sailors.

But seriously, after a certain point you have to recognize they were no longer Roman. They didn't even speak Latin but Greek.
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>>35417570
Except not all the Roman Roads nor all the surviving ones use concrete.

Even of the ones that do survive, it has more to do with ensuring adequate drainage and hard wearing material selection for the dorsum (not for the nucleus). Both of these drastically increase costs.
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>>35417500
With artillery and the significantly lower training time required for muskets, plus their armor penetration, I believe they'd still be superior to bows on the field of battle. Archer formations are fine and all, but they're significantly outranged by artillery. I wonder if muskets could be combined with tetsudo.

This is a pretty good writeup on what led to firearms replacing bows, though:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/29zre7/why_were_primitive_firearms_used_when_bows_and/

According to that guy, it's based on a combination of social and technological factors. The power of a transplanted design would make the tech factors practically irrelevant, meaning superiority would rest on the ease of training. Ease of training isn't relevant unless there are enough of them to equip even the plebs. Breach loading and rifling would greatly increase the completion time and cost of each gun reducing the availability.
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>>35417527
>Also, even nails were expensive and crude as fuck back then
Nails were crude as fuck up until about the mid-1800's. And yet rifles existed prior to that.

You confuse expense with dificulty. I personally know how to smelt iron and forge nails, I also know how to turn pig iron into forged iron and roughly how to make steel. But what's more important, I understand technologies that would revolutionaize roman metal working. Things like how to build a blast funace and a puddling forge and a rough idea of how to make cruicible steel. I also know how to make a wire-drawing machine that can be operated manually. The ability to draw wire from brass or steel makes the process of nail-making easy and cheap. That info alone should fund my armsbuilding projects.
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>>35415818
S.M Stirling and David Drake.

The battles are wonderfully written.
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>>35417620
>But seriously, after a certain point you have to recognize they were no longer Roman. They didn't even speak Latin but Greek.
Calling them Byzantines is a modern affectation used to distinguish them from the WRE. Historically, they were just called the Roman Empire and called themselves that. "Byzantine Empire" was never a historical term and it wasn't a bullshit carryover term nobody actually believed like for instance the HRE was.
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>>35417636
Okay, so you've got your wooden rifling machine and a handsome supply of nails.

That still leaves... everything else.
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Realistically, you could only equip legions with pic related or just flint lock.
Flint lock would be absolute shite though, so i see a Martini Henry to not only be doable for Roman technology, but also way more effective in combat.

>germanic tribe decides to attack Lebanis' garrison in Gaul one day
>RIFLE COHORT FRONT!
>the Gauls completely oblivious, charge the entrance to the fort towards those funny looking spears the dirty Romans are holding
>"IGNIS!"
>Front rank fires and rips the charge to shreds
>their charge loses momentum as they try to figure out wtf just happened
>IGNIS SECUNDO LOCO PROFICISENTUR
>and so on and so forth until they have been routed

Would be fucking glorious
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>>35417657
Yeah I know. But they were Greek speaking Greeks. Or is everyone who claims to be Roman, Roman? Because a lot of people claimed to be Roman. Was the Vandal Kingdom a legitimate Roman province? Was the Holy Roman Empire Roman? How about the Sultanate of Rum? fuck no.
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>>35417601
It's the way they were manufactured and the precision that was crude. Beating things with a hammer vs. machines and tolerances.
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Okay /k/, so let's say you gave the Romans mroe simple and producible flintlock muskets.

How do the Romans improve it? Let's be honest, no technology goes even a century without major changes. The gladius, for instance, looks very different depending on what era of Roman history it comes from. So don't tell me they'd take this weapon and then never once think of adapting it to their needs, tech restrictions, outlook, ideas, or aesthetics. What would they do with it?
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>>35417630
He's not wrong, but up until about 1865 or so the Longbow was a more effective weapon than almost any firearm. There's a few exceptions (the Girandoni air rifle comes to mind) but when you can fire further accurately and 3-5 times faster than your opponent AND without marking your position with smoke everytime you fire...you get the idea. In any case, we're not having to breach heavy plate armor yet,we need rate of fire most and range second. Weight of fire can wait.

>I wonder if muskets could be combined with tetsudo
They can, but not well and really, once your ranged weapons can completely penetrate a shield, formation fighting is just organized mass-suicide.
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>>35417667
Like what? Welding a piece of sheet steel into a tube? Not terribly difficult. Making a lathe to machine the inside of the barrel blank smooth? Tricky, but not hard.
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>>35417688
Give it a bayonet if they didn't have them already, make them more handy and maybe with a mounting notch to be able to be easily fired from formation using the scutum like a pavise.

A lot depends on who gets them, how expensive they are and at what time in the Roman era. A Hastati musket would have different design constraints to a heavy Triarius'. Post Marian Reforms, standardized state supplied arms make a universal weapon issue to everyone without modification an attractive one.
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>>35417592
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>>35414982
No. You would need the smartest men in Rome working on this thing for multiple generations with an almost unlimited budget. Unless you are an engineer, you would be dead before they figured out all the intricate intermediate technologies by trial and error.
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>>35417688

I don't think they would for a while. Assuming you don't tell them anything else. I think they would instead take the properties they learned about (expanding gas pressure makes things move, holy fuuuuuck) to create engines. And they would fuck around a lot with chemistry. The problem here is most anons don't have a proper background in chemistry, and while they might understand things, the Romans would not. And I think it wouldn't go well, because they would have no basis in understanding the science behind any of it. Their metallurgy very literally boils down to 'it's fucking magic we put rocks in and iron comes out can't explain that' chemistry is basic as fuck, the elements they know are earth, fire, water, air.

To do proper scientific chemistry they have to understand molecules, elements, they gotta have that fucking periodic table. They understand none of that, and don't have the tools to study it even.
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>>35417707
>Like what?
Oh I dunno, how about the precision to do literally everything? And you've barely touched on some of the more impractical aspects.

Can you control heat with enough precision to make a decent spring?
Can you machine things with tight enough tolerances on your homemade Roman lathe?
Can you make decent enough chemistry apparatuses to make the primers?
Do you know enough geology to locate natural resources you'll need?
Can you even draw the bloody brass to make the cartridges?

Plus, like a hundred other things, and that's just the things that directly go into the production, then there's the things that go into the things that go into the production.

Shoulders of giants and all that.
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>>35416906
Yeah, nah.
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>>35417769

Yeah nah yourself cunt, guncotton would work. Is home-made gun cotton in your Roman slave sweatshop AK a good idea? Fuck no, but neither was equipping the Roman legion with AKs in the first place.
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>>35417774
First, they didn't farm cotton.

Secondly, they didn't have concentrated nitric acid.

Thirdly, they didn't have sulfuric acid.

Fourthly, they didn't have the equipment to make it.

Fifthly, everything else.
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>>35416879
This. You'll need to create machine tools from scratch all over again if you want to stand a snowflake's chance in hell of actually making a working gun with a barrel that is straight, won't burst and is actually rifled, or an assembly line that can actually draw and shape brass to specification. You'll also need a brigade of workers. You can in theory hand fit all the internals other than the barrel, but it will be a bitch, and the technical drawings will be nearly useless. But unless you wish to hand fit every single fucking cartridge, you'll need to be capable of interchangeability.

Lots of laymen in this thread who completely underestimate the difficulty of making interchangeable parts.
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>>35417173
the biggest problem is the lack of micrometers, lathes and mills you dumbshit
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>>35417860
>implying you can't just cobble together a Cincinnati mill and three-phase power with some rough-cut wood, saws and hammers, and a waterwheel
I think you underestimate the intellectual smartitude of people in this thread.
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>>35417896
haha yes of course

micrometer threads on machine tools are easy to produce with a file and using your flaccid dick as the basis for dimensions
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>>35414982
The ammunition--particularly, the smokeless powder and the priming compound--would get you.

Now, flintlocks, the Romans could certainly have managed, although mass-producing the spring-loaded lock mechanism in sufficient quantity *and* quality might have been an issue.

Worst case, once you teach them how to make black powder, matchlocks are pretty easy to do.
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>>35416041
Gunpowder was an accident of history as much as anything else. Like the S-bend that made indoor plumbing practical, the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Hittites, etc., all were more than capable of manufacturing it if they had known that it existed.
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>>35417614
The "Dark Age" is only "dark" in the sense that there is comparatively less recorded history from it, since it was a time of wide-scale migration in Europe.

On the subject of ballistae, I should point out that they weren't giant crossbows; they used two cylinders of twisted hair ropes, which were expensive and did not fare well in the frequent rains north of the Alps. Hence, the switch to more practical weapons for the Continent.
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>>35418486
What they couldn't produce was a barrel, and without materials' science being a thing they couldn't really figure out how to make hard and durable steel in any way besides centuries of trial and error. People love to shit on medieval Europe, but almost always forget that technology was actually significantly more advanced in 1400 than it was in 200, even if the social, political and economic landscape was more splintered.
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>>35414982
yes, but the bullets would be unreliable and the guns would break down quickly
however whoever controlled that kind of technology would instantly dominate everybody else militarily
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>>35415216
This fucking meme.
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>>35414982
Scale down and focus on mass producing simple fast volley fire weapons and focus on chemical production to produce artillery
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>>35418590
ok how will you make a gun barrel, how will you draw the brass and produce the cordite, how will you create the magazines?

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
>>
I'd go to 1940 Nazi Germany with an AR10 and drawings/specs of Fat Man
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>>35414982
>AK-47

No such thing.
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>>35417362
This. It's what they do in that village in Ethiopia that claims to have the Ark of the Covenant. Minus the eunuch part. Watched a documentary about them once, and one of them said if you try to flee the army would chase you across the world and bring you back. Once you are chosen to guard the ark you are never to leave, and the older you get the closer they put you to the ark, eventually not being allowed to leave the inner chamber.
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>>35418718
t. 47th poster in thread
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>>35417253
like introducing the glorious martini a 1000 years early wouldn't have directly lead to us shitposting in space right now
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>>35417486
Roadbuilder here
Specific effort costs extra
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>>35417626
Drainage is the biggest thing
Given enough time water will destroy anything
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>>35414982
No.

Removable "cartridge firing" style breech loading cast bronze hand gonnes firing sabot steel darts? Hell yes.
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Dont make AK47 - make a crude STEN analogue. The parts that are difficult to machine could be made by bronze casting for easier standardization.

To make mercury fulminate for the primer, you only need ethanol, mercury and nitric acid. Nitric acid was produced in the 10th century from niter, alum and blue vitriol, which the romans would have managed.

Skip the smokeless powder completely for black powder cartridges, with unjacketed lead bullets. This also reduces gas pressure which eases the need for strong modern steel.
All in all i say its doable, you would need ~ two decades though and a large population devoted to you as emperor. You would also need to seperate every major process on a need-to-know-principle so that the enemys couldnt figure it out after finding a dropped STEN and to prevent internal revolution to replace you.

Never underestimate dem Romans, Dude:
"Supposedly, aluminum’s discovery dates back to the ancient Roman Empire. One Roman history tells of an unusual goldsmith who gave the Roman emperor Tiberius a plate crafted from a silvery and lightweight new metal made from “clay.” When Tiberius saw what was most likely an aluminum plate, he ordered the execution of the goldsmith. Tiberius feared the goldsmith’s new metal might reduce the value of Rome’s vast stores of gold and silver. Tiberius’s beheading of the unfortunate goldsmith kept aluminum in the ground for the next two millennia."
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>>35418935
That historian was Pliny the Elder
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>>35417452

The roads are only there because for the most part, they've not got a thousand HGVs driving over them every day.

Tit.
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>>35416088
Picture is outside the Royal Armouries in Leeds for those interested. Definitely recommend having a visit there if any of you have the chance.
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>>35415753
When artillery got more common they started making star shaped forts so you couldn't hit the walls dead on. The Native New Zealanders made them to defend against European invaders in the 1800's.
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>>35417199
>steel didnt exsist in huge quantities before the bessemer process

are you fucking retarded?

the bessemer process merely sped the process of production and allowed for better control of quality
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>>35414982
I think it's more about the lack of machine tools then metallurgy. Not having reliable enough lathes and presses and the ability to extrude materials is going to hamper you.
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>>35417289
its called compartmentalization

you teach some people how to find the raw materials, others how prep one specific chemical, then others how to mix it into something useful, that way no one person has a complete understanding of the process
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>>35418742
Source???
This is something I'd like to read about
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>>35418935
>"Supposedly, aluminum’s discovery dates back to the ancient Roman Empire. One Roman history tells of an unusual goldsmith who gave the Roman emperor Tiberius a plate crafted from a silvery and lightweight new metal made from “clay.” When Tiberius saw what was most likely an aluminum plate, he ordered the execution of the goldsmith. Tiberius feared the goldsmith’s new metal might reduce the value of Rome’s vast stores of gold and silver. Tiberius’s beheading of the unfortunate goldsmith kept aluminum in the ground for the next two millennia."
Isn't that the same story as flexible glass? Or is that the joke?
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>>35417754
>Heat
Yeah actually. pic related.

>Tight enough
Yes. It doesn't have to be more than 3 signifigant digits accurate using the ammo I'm thinking about.

>Primers
What part of "flintlock" did you fail to understand?

>geology
The romans already mined sulphur for medical and alchemical purposes, saltpeter you can make, and they already mined pretty high-grade iron in germania. Dolomite was already quarried for construction uses by the romans and unlike the locals I *do* know how to produce rather pure charcoal for carbon.

>Brass
No need for brass cases. Paper cases glued to the bullet and sewed to a waxed felt wad will work perfectly. The waxed felt acts as a breach seal when you close the block and is pushed ahead of the next bullet so it helps to clean it's own barrel as you fire.

You seem to think that primitive people (by ou standards) are stupid somehow. I assure you, they are not. Once you teache them a few basic principles that advance their basic knowledge they'll take that ad run wild with it.

You know what the #1 improvement you can make in Rome to increase it's power and lifespan? Demonstrate that using lead to pipe & store drinking water is toxic. Stopping that practice alone will result in smarter, stroger, healthier, less insane and longer-lived Romans. Also, convincing the senate that the emperors were a mistake would do wonders. Where would Rome have ended up without the parade of Neroes and Caligulas it had to suffer through?
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>>35419946
not that guy but
What exactly is your revised plan now ? Baker rifles?
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>>35414982
Ian did a Q&A on this, they basically agreed that US civil war is earliest you could do a custom job.

and turn of the century is about when you could crank them out fast
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>>35417791
>>35417774

Primus, they DID farm cotton, just not a lot of it. And even if the Romans didn't, the Egyptians did.
Secundus, so teach them how to make it.
Tertius, Don't need sulphuric acid to make guncotton. All you need is nitric acid, cotton and saltpeter.
Quartius, sure they did. They just called it an Alchemists rather than a laborotory.

Quintius, fuck off Debbie Downer.
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>>35419831
holy shit it seems the eaxct same story, i had no idea about this. Maybe Tiberius really hated new inventions
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>>35414982
i could probably forge something like pic related

but that would be the best of my ability,
still tho a roman legion armed with these would be a cool sight.
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>>35418690
And I would go back to 1940 Germany and kill your grandparents.
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>>35419993
Literally a matchlock
If they had 20mm shells lying around, couldn't they have fashioned a sten or something, rather than a matchlock ?
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>>35415327
It just wouldn't be worth it to produce a gun that complex without machine tools, it would probably be easier to manufacture 30 simple single shot weapons and to texas reload than to make one horribly complex autoloader that may or may not work correctly.
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>>35420020
obviously i wouldn't be using a used 20mm shell (although they'd be pretty easy to make)
but probably some long carved out natural material
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>>35418779
No need to go full Martini-Henry on me now. Think "trapdoor flintlock Sharpes rifle" in a generation they'll be making drawn brass cartridges and stable lead styphenate primers.
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>>35420041
No, as in why did the people making the eoka pistol make something rather than that matchlock?
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>>35418935
Now if only she was into farming and guns...
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>>35417653
Thanks for the correction, there's another series with going that's quite good.
Still get a bit of a boner when I find a new collected work by Drake. Man was prolific with his writings.
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>>35414982
Just bring back a few hundred AKs, few thousand magazines, few thousand spam cans of 7.62 and some type 84 chest rigs. Then tell them you're a messenger from the god Vulcan.

Also brush up on your ancient history, might come in handy.

Surely if you can afford time travel tech you can afford that. Just be careful, Timeline Enforcement Agency might try to eliminate your existence.
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>>35414982
Probably not but you could introduce them to Flintlocks and hope that they improve on them starting there and maybe we'll have better guns today.
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>>35419967
Flintlock trapdoor Sharpes rifles.
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>>35420053
Oh shit mis-read

Most likely limited knowledge or something,
This IS Cyprus we're talking about. It was pretty third-world in the 50's.

Probably made by some turk in his shed north of the island
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>>35419985
You DO need sulfuric acid to produce nitrocellulose (of any reasonable quality). The nitration solution is 50/50 HNO3 and H2SO4. Also, the nitric acid has to be around 70% concentration or higher (fuming nitric acid/oleum) which was not available.
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>>35420070
why doe no one ever try to prevent the TEA from being created or elminate the existence of it's agents?
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>>35417253
This. Making a AK is possible, but would take forever and be made of substandard materials, and the ammunition quality would be so low that it would have minimal firepower advantage over a musket. Paper cartridges are the way to go, and you could probably make basic rifling by dividing the barrels into halfs or parts.
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>>35420101
I'm dumb, oleum is sulfuric, not nitric acid.
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>>35419993
Or you could just give them cannon technology. That would be easier and more manageable and since matchlocks are just small handheld cannons it probably wouldn't take too long for them to invent them.
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>>35420176
A Cannon has a completely different role in combat than a basic flintlock thing would tho,

A cannon is only for stationary/large targets,
A crappy flintlock thing can shoot on an individual-scale and can target specific people.

both would be equally as useful in their own aspects.
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>>35420101
Sulphuric acid is presnt only a a catalyst to produce the nitronium ion (No) which can easily be preplaced by adding satpeter (KNO3) instead. But if you insist on doing it the hard way; once you know how to create nitirc and sulphurinc acids and concentrate them (sophmore level chemistry) the rest is easy. You DO know how to create acids, right?
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>>35420249
>A cannon is only for stationary/large targets
Like a formation of ancient era soldiers?
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>>35420115
Because they exist across infinite paradoxical time lines. With no Paradox Protective Equiptment you could end up stuck in an alternate timeline where we didn't defeat the crab people.

Tracking down all it's agents across timelines would be near impossible. Plus considering they invented 2 way travel, going back to their formation and stopping it would create a paradox where you always fail. Since without them you wouldn't be able to go back and stop them.
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>>35420249
>only for stationary/large targets,
You mean like set-piece formations? Also, the Confederacy called. They want to talk to you about artillery tactics.
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>>35420308
You're gonna kill your own guys if you shoot your cannon at close-quarter swordsmen engaging.
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>>35420314
unless I (or someone else ) invented time travel seperately from the TEA's development of it.
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>>35420343
Cannon are for the disruption of formations before the melee is joined. Thor's fucking teeth! Have you no idea how pre-guerilla war battles were fought?
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>>35414982
No. Even something as basic and capable at functioning at extreme low-quality levels would require metal-working skills far beyond the Romans.
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>>35420249
>>35420343
Did you get your history knowledge from Total War or something? Go read a book.
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>>35414982

No.

> t. Romefag
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>>35417500
Really? I've read the opposite. Charcoal is not carbon. Any attempt to substitute carbon for charcoal will not work. Volatiles are required.
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>>35420362
Good luck mastering anything except forward at regular pace. You'd need to utilize their switching stations to cross over timelines. We don't even know which timeline they used in their formation. You'd need to invent your own machine, portable switcher, paradox protection field, and one hell of a goddamn plan. Best bet is to just accept that time travel is purely a historical tourism thing.
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>>35414982

No.
Would be decades away from even having mass production parts with any kind of precision.
Centuries away from proper steel and metallurgy.

Grenades and Molotovs would be best thing you could make with gunpowder during that time.

Rudimentary gunpowder encased in a bronze shell.

Light and throw into enemy ranks.
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>>35420490
>Rudimentary gunpowder
So low pressure launchers such as rockets and mortars?
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>>35420465
gunpoder-grade charcoal is generally described as C7H4O. You are correct though you want almost nothing BUT volatiles. it's the non-volatiles that create fouling during combustion.
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>>35420490
>Centuries away from proper steel
What exactly were roman swords made from again?
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>>35420551
I'm sure he'll have some highly specific definition of steel that exists only in his own head in mind.
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>>35419946
>>35420087
So not a bloody AK.
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>>35417791
>First, they didn't farm cotton.
Aegyptus would like to have a word with you. The fucking global capital of cotton production was a major Roman territory. Cotton clothing was almost as common as linen in Rome.
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>>35414982
No, afaik steel wasnt that known.

You know how thick the first cannons where? Those where huuuuuge.
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>>35418516
>The "Dark Age" is only "dark" in the sense that there is comparatively less recorded history from it, since it was a time of wide-scale migration in Europe.
Which isn't even true anymore. There's lots of records from the "dark ages" known to us now.
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>>35414982
same rehash post
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>>35419946
>You seem to think that primitive people (by ou standards) are stupid somehow. I assure you, they are not. Once you teache them a few basic principles that advance their basic knowledge they'll take that ad run wild with it.
Fucking thank you. So much historical vanity in this thread.
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>>35420796
oh, fuck no. I stated that perviously. the infrastructure and tech base isn't there to make more than the occassional hand-made AK with $50 a round cartriges loaded into wood & brass magazines.
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>>35420809
Reality would like a word with you. Most cotton came from India, and it was a luxury in the Roman Empire. Egypt wasn't a major source of cotton until like 500AD.
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>>35420810
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy
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>>35420893
so we send caravans to the Indus river valley and trade for it.
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>>35420390
Total war fan with at least 2,000 cumulative hours in the games here.

Cannons in most games are perfectly useful for targeting mobile targets. Especially in Fall of the Samurai, where you basically only need line infantry as a screen for your OP-as-fuck Armstrong Guns.
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>>35420881
>oh, fuck no. I stated that perviously.
Not to me you didn't. I was discussing AKs and nothing more.
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>>35420920
Ahh...there's our disconnect.

You could build AKs, but they'd be about as common as Ferguson Guns or Puckle guns and about as expensive to feed as a Lahti. And may the gods help you if one ever broke down. It'd take weeks to get ot repaired.
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>>35419985
Kek
>not using Roman numerals instead
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>>35420893
Bullshit. Ancient - as in like pyramids ancient, or roughly 4,000 years ago - Egyptians wore cotton clothing. It was well known in the Mediterranean by the Roman era.
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>>35420536
Tbh, you could probably make reliable mortars and bombs, and the Romans would understand them pretty well
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>>35417284
See, this is the typical stupid teenager who likes to shitpost about brainlets on /sci/. Inventing rifling is the easy part. Creating the tools that can bore a 40cm tube reasonably straight and reasonably close to the caliber of the gun required (a moderate interference fit), and then cut grooves of reasonably uniform twist and depth, is hard. Not to mention smelting the relatively high carbon steel with uniform chemical composition, and then properly heat treating it to withstand the extreme overpressures of firing a round. Then you want to do this repeatedly, and create thousands of reasonably uniform cartridges that you can fire through the tube.

You're the sort of faggot who learns about shit on wikipedia, conceptually. You've never actually had to solve a difficult problem. I know because I used to think like you, before getting into engineering. All this is simple to understand conceptually but difficult to do in practice. You can't just pick up a set of calipers and micrometer to do your measurement, you can't just put it in the lathe and machine it to spec, you can't just order a batch of 1040 steel from the mill. You first have to create these tools, and the tools that allow you to create these tools, etc. Even today, it takes a good engineer maybe half a day to work out an idea that will then take years to actually implement into production.
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>>35420958
Can you actually produce reliable ammunition by hand? I am not all that familiar with brass drawing.
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>>35416931
only one hour xD
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>>35421084
You can, but it takes a shitload of time and is expensive as fuck.
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>>35420995
So? None of that disproves what I said.

Firstly, ancient people were trading shit far and wide back then, as evidenced by the fact that a Vietnamese bird (the chicken) started appearing in Egypt at that time.

Cotton grew wild in Egypt. That's how it was obtained for a long time in many of the areas it was used. This contributed to the expense.

Also, a lot of cotton clothing back then was actually cotton blended with cheaper stuff, like wool. Because cotton was expensive.

As for your last sentence, gold, spices, dyes, plenty of expensive stuff was well known in the Mediterranean by the Roman era.

>>35421084
Drawing brass takes hundreds of tonnes of force.
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>>35417173
But if you will say to those conservatives that the new technology can help them to make teir empire stronger-they will support you
>>
Lets say i went back in time with working examples of a Titan II ICBM and technical drawings and specs and we would manage to build them in roman times.

Who would the Romans use it against? Sassanids? Pikts? The Irish?
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>>35421123
Communists
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>>35421099
What kind of tolerances are we looking at? I assume you need to work a lot with precision tools to get it right.
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>>35421116
>Cotton came from India and was a luxury in Rome
>Actually, cotton was commonly grown in this major Roman province, which was quite famous for it for a couple thousand years by that point-
>Well how does that disprove what I said!
How does it not?
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>>35421054
If inventing it was easy then why did it take 150 years for it to be invented? you don;t have to make hyper-accurate barels like they use now. All you need to make are minute-of-badguy accurate weapons. You don't need steel that can take high pressure necked cartriges, just BP.

I have argued from the beginning that AKs were impractical, but that doesn't mean that rifled barrels were impossible or even exceptionally difficult.
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>>35421116
>Drawing brass takes hundreds of tonnes of force.
Providing force is not as difficult as getting dimensions right, in the ancient world. Screw presses and whatnot have existed for ever. I am more concerned about how you actually get the right shape and dimension of the cartridges.
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>>35421054
I hope you're not seriously trying to imply it takes machine tools to rifle a barrel.
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>>35421136
So the early christians? But they dindu nuffin .__.
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>>35421148
Either cast the brass or make rolled foil cartriges. Don't expect to reload it. The REAL problem is when you try to make the primers. Making stable mercury fulminate, lead azide or lead styphenate is going to be a bitch. You're going to have to introduce glassmaking or at least teach the glassblowers how to make what you need.
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>>35421188
>introduce glassmaking in Roman times
are you drunk?
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>>35421201
slightly, yes. and quite baked. Fuck off it's Sunday and I'm only working on my third Irish coffee.
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>>35421157
I said it wasn't commonly grown, it grew wild, and it wasn't famous for it at all. It became famous later, India was the one who was famous for cotton at that time.
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>>35421183
>dindu nuffin
>christianity was destroying the roman empire internally
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>>35421161
Ok, if you use something like Minie balls you can actually get away with fudging tolerances quite a bit. I still need to ask about what kind of steel you will be using and how you will make the bore. I imagine early guns made from wrought iron bands wrapped around bars had such a shitty bore finish that rifling simply would not have mattered since there was too much play on average. They got better at making barrels but I am not familiar with the techniques myself. I do know that by the time breech loaders started showing up, machine tools were becoming a thing and metallurgy was at a level where they could produce uniform carbon content steels quite reliably.
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>>35415288
could they make even produce gun barrels capable of containing gunpowder explosions? I mean, you'd think if that were possible canons would have been more common.

We take the idea of casting/forging a barrel for granted, but would they have had the ability back then?
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>>35421174
Well, how DID they make the barrels on rifled muskets? I was thinking about modern guns and the big ass lathe-like boring machines they use.
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>>35421226
fuck, im so envious :( cant find a dope peddler here and havent had anything to smoke for over a year
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>>35421230
>implying it wasnt the sweetened lead-containing wine that slowly sterilized the aristocracy
>>
Potentially stupid question here: Why bother with steel? Why not bronze? Enlightenment/Napoleonic cannon used bronze, mostly.
Would the barrel thickness be too much to be man-portable?
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>>35421244
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTy3uQFsirk&t=650
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>>35421174
An AK barrel? Yeah, you're gonna need machine tools for that.
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>>35421274
no, thats wat i was saying all along in this thread. it would be far easier to standardize because it can be cast at much lower tempereatures then steel.

1.Make on master form out of wood
2. Make wax copies of master form for bronze casting
3. All alike within a narrow margin
4.????
5.Profit
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>>35421286
Nobody is saying that they need to be able to cut the groove in one go you autist.
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>>35421339
You have to cut the extremely straight hole in one go.
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>>35421353
Explain how medieval craftsmen managed to make gun barrels then, and what they did that the Romans couldn't.
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>>35421392
AK barrels? They didn't.
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>>35421234
A lathe isn;t that hard to build. You use that lather to machine a better lathe which you use to machine a better lathe. THAT lathe you use to grind out barrel bore to a uniform thickness, Incidentally, youdon;t need to bore bar stock into a barrel, you can make welded barrels out of sheet steel that will take BP pressures just fine. You only need to bore out he imperfections and then rifle it which you can do using a wooden machine that uses turned brass screw to hold it togther (courtesty of one of your earlier lathes) and some case hardened nails to cut the grooves. Case hrdeding is EASY to accomplish and crucible steel isn't hard to make once you understand what makes steel steel and how a puddling forge works.

Pig Iron that's been tempered and then melted in together with carbon, dolomite (and manganese if you can find it) will produce cruicible steel of acceptable quality to make BP rifles from.
>>
Winchesters would be a better design to bring back.
>>
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>>35421396
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>>35421255
One of the benefits of living in AK. I grow my own.
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>>35421441
good luck making primers for fixed cartridges.
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>>35414982
No. With the metallurgy of the times, you wouldnt be able to make barrels, trunnions or literally any hard steel component.

Now, you could just reinvent modern metallurgy, though...
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>>35421451
Well, that's what he was talking about, and that's what OP asked.
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>>35421235
some handgonnes were made of work hardened brass, so yeah, very low pressure guns could have been made.
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>>35421283
Thanks a lot for the link. Looks like a valuable documentary. I am definitely going to watch all of it.

Note that already in the first few minutes you are looking at a whole fuckload of tooling you have to make: the shaper of the barrel in bending, the boring machine which is essentially a very primitive lathe the boring bits, the hammering tools, etc. Not to mention the years of experience working steel (which the Romans didn't really have) for the welds and so on. It's not quite up there with the AK barrels, but it's still months or years of work to actually get reliable results - and this is for rifled muskets firing lead balls.

Now imagine having to make all this to a standard dimension to jacketed, mass produced cartridges. If you are a blacksmith or mech engineer, you could conceivably set up a gunsmithing operation in ancient rome, but you would never make it to produce AKs so OP is conclusively full of shit. If you spent all your life perfecting the craft and teaching apprentices, thanks to exponential growth maybe you could be looking at a 17th or 18th century arsenal-tier production capability for up to mid 19th century guns. If you jewed the system a bit maybe you could sneak a lot of more modern features into the guns like bolt action, but certainly not 20th century shit. And it would take a long time to set up because you are just one person. You know these things, nobody else does. And unlike in real life 18th or 19th century Europe, nobody else in the entire world knows any physics whatsoever. In a couple of decades you could be turning out thousands of guns per year, in a century there could be arsenals all over the empire turning out millions.
(1/2)
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>>35421482
Drill slowly.
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>>35421552
(2/2)
But this will only happen after you nail the technique and technology yourself, and then teach it to apprentices who can become masters themselves and teach it to apprentices, and so on. And since you live in a world before the invention of fucking algebra, there is no theoretical understanding of physics to help development along, just what you as a craftsman and they as empirical learners can teach to the new guys directly.

In conclusion: if you spent years or decades on it, you could start turning out Needle Gun tier technology at a reasonable rate, mainly due to the need for skill and education at every level. This documentary just reinforces my opinion.
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>>35421555
With those perfectly straight gundrills the Romans had?
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>>35421552
See, the crucial mistake you're making is that while OP (probably not, but let's assume he did) specified an identical copy of an AK, he didn't specify that that it has to be done using the exact same way the Soviets did it.
>>
>>35421574
Rigidity is more of a problem than straightness. You claim to be an engineer, but you clearly lack critical thinking.
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>>35421599
>Rigidity is more of a problem than straightness.
So you're saying that straightness is a problem?

>You claim to be an engineer
I did? Where?
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>>35421618
Sufficient straightness is not a problem, nor is rigidity. Also, crafting a sufficiently straight surface by hand is very simple.
>>35421618
I'm glad you didn't, because you sure do suck at pretending to be one.
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>>35421670
Where was I pretending to be an engineer? Show me.
>>
>>35421698
Yeah, yeah, we get it, you're not that poster over there, you merely had the same oddly specific opinions blah blah blah so predictable, nothing we haven't seen before.
>>
>>35421758
I even said I wasn't him in one post >>35421482

Do your superior critical thinking skills interfere with your reading comprehension?
>>
>>35414982

I've always had a fantasy of time traveling back to Rome and showing them all the new weapons and technology that had been invented.

But for your question, no.
>>
>>35421579
It doesn't matter you dumb fuck. You can barely even make a flintlock with roman tech, after months or years of setting up. You are never going to make an automatic assault rifle with much higher stresses, much smaller and tighter tolerances, and many many more parts that need to be interchangeable. This is not an issue when you can simply make a bullet mould for each barrel, or fire sub caliber rounds. But when you need to headspace thousands of brass cartridges correctly for the same gun, or thousands of jacketed bullets to actually engage the rifling but not seize in the barrel, the problem becomes exponentially more difficult. It is no coincidence that even the first mass produced rifled muskets appeared at the turn of the 19th century, right as machine tools were being introduced. Something that literally originated from a guy hand filing a bunch of steel plates to be as perfectly flat as possible.

I guess I'm wasting breath here because very few people appreciate the importance and difficulties of interchangeability until they actually go into mechanical engineering themselves. Technology is not something that one guy can easily just advance in his shed, it nearly always relies on incremental advances over millenia. There are a shitload of systemic difficulties with practically implementing and sharing knowledge that you will never appreciate until you actually have to work in a technical field.
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>>35415327

Man that guy started with a parts kit, and access to decent steel. Completely irrelevant.
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>>35422292
>Make 1 AK
>It needs interchangeable parts
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>>35417669
I think they made a movie with a similar scene...
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>>35422647
You must be new, welcome to /k/, not git out, etc

Any time someone mentionst he Martini-Henry rifle, someone must reference that movie. It's pretty much a requirement.
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>>35422481
Are you gonna use the same bullet over and over again? People with IQ of 90 or below should be shot.
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>>35422722
One plant, one dimension.
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>>35422748
And you're gonna produce them by hand filing? Sure. But you still fail to adress how you will make the barrel to begin with. Dimensional errors that work fine when shooting lead balls with wad will fuck your shit up when firing high pressure ak rounds.
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>>35422773
Eh, make it low powered. Close enough.
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>>35422818
Then it won't cycle though.
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>>35422818
No, not close enough. Since when is a musket's power enough to cycle an automatic firearm? How will you obtain the reliable small interference fit? How will you actually produce the barrel itself? How will you produce the casings? So many questions, each of which has a thousand details that take thousands of man hours to work out.
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>>35422907
Come on now, the bullet doesn't have to be filed to shape, the press has to be. Barrels aren't really a problem.
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>>35415216
because japs are idiots now begone weeb
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>>35414982
Nigga the necessary work to make a spring on itself is pretty much impossible to do without modern shit
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>>35422952
>Barrels aren't really a problem.
Explain how you will make one, with roman technology. Starting from iron ore in the ground, to the finished product. If you can't, you won't be able to make it even with AK blueprints.
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>>35423026
>Ctesibius of Alexandria developed a method for making bronze with spring-like characteristics by producing an alloy of bronze with an increased proportion of tin, and then hardening it by hammering after it was cast.
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>>35421283
If there is ever a /k/ sticky of required reading/viewing, this one should be on it.
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>>35421274
Side note: I believe that bronze pistols were preferred in certain climates, like Scotland, where rust was a major concern. So it was doable at that size.

Rifles/muskets might be a little too heavy for normal infantry usage, though, but I am not an expert on that.
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>>35422952
>Barrels aren't really a problem.
Did you see the colonial gunsmith docu? Barrels are a tricky and difficult part to make, taking a skilled gunsmith with steelworking knowledge and an arsenal of specialist tooling up to and including a proto-lathe. And that's just a low pressure, large bore thin walled black powder barrel. You won't just barge into any old Roman era smithy and get it done.
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>>35414982
Absolutely fucking not. Anyone who says otherwise is fucking stupid.
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>>35423037
Sure thing bro, I'll just waste an hour of my life showing off my e-peen.
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>>35423131
>I wouldn't know where to begin
Exactly. Having the finished product in your head means jack shit when you have no clue how to make it. In this scenario, there is no one to turn to. What you know is all you've got, everyone else is still in the iron age. Want to make primers? Well, unless you know the chemical compound used, how to make it from base chemicals and how to make those base chemicals from the rocks that you also know how to prospect for and mine, tough shit. The romans sure as hell don't know how to do it.
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>>35414982
No. The ammunition would be particularly impossible, but so would chroming the barrel, making springs that work that well, that long, in that range of temperatures, and cutting precise and c consistent bores holes for both the barrel, the pins, and the rivets.
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>>35417173
That wasn't really a problem till the dark ages in Europe nigger.
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>>35417630
I expected nothing, but at the least the redditor delivered pretty well.
The desire for guns is non existing, however the desire for mini artillery is great. So guns is basically a derivative development, and not much intentional, essentially piggy backing of at the least 300 years of tech development, until corning powder arrived.

>>35415327
Even ignoring that he had access to high quality metal, which he knew enough about to jury rig for the use.
Thats also ignoring that Guns is Gun + Ammo.
If you can create a poor quality Sten(not really), thats one thing. But sealed casings with primers? That works properly?
Its a industrial nightmare, carried upon eons of incremental advancements.
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>>35421392
late medieval craftsmen made barrels on lathes and boring machines that used cutting tool metallurgy, bearing design and metallurgy, and precision measuring and manufacturing technology 800 years in advance of anything the Romans had access to.

We lost a fair amount of civil engineering know-how (like the recipe for concrete, etc) because after the collapse of the Mediterranean grain trade, it wasn't possible to support cities on the same scale of metropolitan Rome, and this there was no need of or market for this knowledge until medieval advances in agriculture allowed for larger cities in the late medieval and renaissance era, but there was always a market for improved manufacturing techniques and improved metallurgy.
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>>35417340
The easiest solution would be to give them the designs for a breechloading black powder firearm that could use paper cartridges. Tolerances wouldn't be as strict, the mechanisms are simple, and the materials needed already existed. Things like a sharps, chassepot, or perhaps a modified snider enfield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__4YPXE-KVE

There's really no need for a modern rifle, when large caliber cast lead would do far more damage on the lightly armored (if at all) enemy soldiers. Plus you dont need to worry about them shooting back at you, there are plenty of ways to protect yourself from arrows. And the moral loss from seeing entire waves of people drop would likely prevent a charge.

Cast lead mushrooms out on impact and basically like becomes a giant sledgehammer moving at high speed. I'm willing to bet that if you hit a shield or armor before hitting flesh that you'd cause even more damage from it mushrooming out or fragmenting. Maybe not as immediately lethal, but you have to remember that for a lot of Romes enemies, even something as simple as stepping on a sharp rock and cutting your foot could lead to a fatal infection. A few shattered ribs, or a shattered arm, would certainly remove the soldier from the fight, and would more likely than not result in them dying later on.
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The Guns wouldn't be the hard part. The Ammo would be. How is your knowledge of chemistry?
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If you worked tirelessly and had full logistical support and worthy apprentice's... you coul field a small army of 1000 men armed with Kentucky rifles in about a year.

This would multiply quickly from there... two years maybe 10,000 men.

In ten years you would be producing AK's.
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Let's look at this from a different angle. Imagine that you have a time machine, all the documents you want, and some plot ability that allows you to convince anybody to assist you in your effort. Your mission is to make a practical self-loading rifle and mass produce it, along with ample ammunition.

The catch is that you only have five years from the time you arrive (this is an arbitrary time, just think of it as being enough to implement small changes in manufacturing and chemistry etc. but not modernize the whole supply chain from scratch) until the rifle needs to be in the hands of troops. What is the earliest period in which you could actually pull this off?

My guess is that it would be sometime in the late 18th or early 19th century, but I'll be interested to hear what /k/ thinks.
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>>35417452
The roads are nice, but the used ones were maintained and the unused ones were buried and forgotten until archaeologists dug 'em up.
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>>35424969
You'd need to arrive after chromium became a known and exploited natural resource for certain.

You need stainless steel to safely and rapidly produce the powder and primers on an industrial scale.
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>>35421123
One village in Gaul
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>>35421123
Germans
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Just give them the recipe for black powder and teach them how to make matchlocks.
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>>35421283
well this is fucking neato
thank you
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>>35420343
>not shooting a cannon into the mix of your own guys in cqc
>not killing your most important officers and honor guard in doing so

It's like you don't even want to be a vallhallan.
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>>35417452
>roads
This scares the ancap
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>>35415216
>muh
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>>35414982
Wouldn’t it be better to just get them onto the road of interchangeable parts?
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>>35419112
>what are howitzers and mortars
fuck out of here, tard
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>>35415101
>reasonably accurate out to javelin range
Did they have rifling tools back then?
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>>35417699
>Girandoni air rifle

Fuck yes. Black powder is cool for navy (cannons and blunderbuss), but equip the army with air rifles with bayonets, metal crossbows and longbows.
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I could maybe fabricate a cannon which would still probably impress the shit out of them. Walls BTFO.
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No. I would rather redpill them on steam, physics, medecine, and chemistry.
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>>35429058
Romans had the steam engine retard.
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>>35414982
No. You could definitely make muskets though, which would be extremely useful.
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>>35421235
Gunpowder wasn't discovered yet. You can't have cannons without gunpowder.
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>>35429570
Cavemen could make gunpowder, they just didn't have the knowledge.




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