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Alright /k/

I want to start something like a pure Cold War collection.

- Pics (high res preferred)
- Maps
- Links
- PDFs

What I want to create is not only a huge collection of data, but also a place to discuss the great "what ifs" of the Cold War, especially in Europe.

So if you got stuff, post it. If your daddy served at the german/german border, tell us his story.
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>>35439343
is this a cold war aesthetics thread?
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>>35439349
Yes and no. Feel free to post stuff that clearly belongs to the cold war, but only real border stuff - not talking about Vietnam or Afghanistan. But otherwise: yeah
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>>35439353
>Spetsnaz_gru_1999
>Cold War General

Dude...
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>>35439343
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My father served in the Bundeswehr in the late 70s, did his compulsory military service. His unit had Lance rockets and would have been given nukes in case war broke out.
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>GIs from Breitscheid eat 130 pieces of bread with homemade liverwurst
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>>35439431
OP here. Mine served 67/68 missile artillery too. They had Sergeant and Honest John
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This is a playlist with Bundeswehr videos from the Cold War. It's in German, but some might find it interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t30GtcJ9bfI&list=PLB4569B19C8BA0084
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>>35439482
Oh, the link only shows one video, you have to look for "Bundeswehr Classix" if you want to view the playlist.
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>>35439482
Good job, Anon
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You know why the east lost?

Because even in the mid-80s their towns looked like the russians just had steamrolled them. Pic very fucking related
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Writing on the right house says Brewery. No wonder they stopped here ^^
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MERDC is pure sex
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>>35439523
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>>35439547
>this makes my dick feel funny
also
>that sleek sweet plain M1 look
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>>35439547
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>>35439563
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>>35439563
>>35439567
The "my dick can only get so hard" pattern.
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>>35439506
yeah commies weren't very big on civvy maintenance
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Retreating from hungary 1989
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I just bought myself a 1968 ex British MOD Land Rover.

Can't wait to collect it.
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>>35439506
This is literally how I always imagined the com block: Rain, old houses, everything's rotten and sad.

>1985
They didnt even manage to refurbish 40 years after the war. No wonder the eastern germans wanted to get out of this place. Depressing as fuck
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>Cold war thread without link related

Here guys, have some 1 1/2 hours of high quality mockumentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1m7opOGSmQ
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>>35439343
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I have this very awesome link here. Sorry, only in german. But basically it covers how incredibly much germany was prepared back then.

https://www.geschichtsspuren.de/artikel/verkehrsgeschichte/135-sperren-wallmeister.html

Virtually every strategic bridge, road etc was covered with pre-prepared prechamber shafts or other means to blow them up.

But not only this: The whole area that would have been (after a blast) covered with jammed soviet troops was pre-positioned in the maps of NATO arty.
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>>35439343
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>>35439343
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>>35439343
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>>35439343
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>>35439737
People tend to brush off how important bridges are because of how much the soviets liked amphib vehicles. However all the prime river crossing areas in Germany tended to have stone embankments either by design or as a natural by product of wanting to halt erosion.
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>>35439343
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>>35439547
>105mm

What were they thinking?
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>>35439684
I wish people did more of these. I remember seeing this years ago and blown away. I haven't seen or heard the term 'mockumentary' before. Are there any more like this?
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>>35439865
The Soviets did a study of the L7 in the late Cold War period and concluded that it could penetrate the frontal armour of all of their tanks. Even T-72s and T-80s. It was, and still is, a good gun. The 120 is certainly an upgrade but at the time the M1 originally came out, it was not doubt fit for purpose.
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>>35439915
The M735 proved that the L7 still had a lot of life left in it, and the M774 and M833 only solidified that thinking.
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>>35439877
Mockumentary means mocked documentary aka a docu that looks real but is fake.
This is the prime one (and the only one I know about WW3) because it was made by the german state-owned TV channel ZDF. But afaik theres nothing else like that and I doubt in such a high quality
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>>35439574
>>35439563
>snow temperate
Yes more please
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>>35440165
Oh I love that one, even if the acting is wooden as fuck.


I compiled a list of Bundeswehr strength for /his/ a while back, might as well post it.

For the Bundeswehr:
490.000 total
340.000 Army
110.000 Air force
38.000 Navy

about 1,5-1,7 max. million reserves in the case of war

MBT's:
1170 M47
1690 M48
replaced by:
2400 Leo 1
replaced by
2125 Leo 2

In addition:
750 tank destroyers (Kannonjgd.pz.)
about 300 rocket TD's at any given time

IFV's:
1600 Spz. kurz Hotchkiss
2176 Spz. lang Hs 30
replaced by:
2130 Spz Marder

APC's
about 300 various designs at any given time until '84
replaced by:
4000 m113

AA:
450 M42
replaced by:
420 Flakpz. Gepard
140 Roland on Marder-chasis
Artillery:
580 M109
280 M107/M110

Air force:
(1980's)
586 F104 Starfighter (gound attack, interceptor, nuclear capable)
163 F104 (recon)
175 F4F (fighter/bomber)
88 RF4F (recon)
334 Panavia Tornado (bomber, naval strike, recon, nuclear capable)
175 Dornier Alpha jet (Trainer, recon, ground attack)
not listed are various transports, trainers etc.

Helos:
212 Bo-105 (mainly Anti-Tank)
250 UH-1 (transport)
112 CH-53 (transport)
another 200-300 trainers, transports, recon helo's of various types

Navy (small and insignificant)
13 destroyers
6-8 frigates
30-40 fast attack boats
5 Sub chasers
about 25 submarines (80's)
a bunch of smaller mine sweepers/coastal partol boats
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>>35440222
>4000 m113s
how many did the Claps had at that time?
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>>35439915
bullshit, source for that nigga, because Jane's concluded the DU round for the 120mm couldn't frontally penetrate the T-80U

Jane's International Defence Review 7/2007, pg. 15:
"IMPENETRABLE RUSSIAN TANK ARMOUR STANDS UP TO EXAMINATION"
By Richard M. Ogorkiewicz

"During the tests we used only the weapons which existed with NATO armies during the last decade of the Cold War to determine how effective such weapons would have been against these examples of modern Soviet tank design. Our results were completely unexpected. When fitted to the T-72A1 and B1 the 'heavy' ERA made them immune to the DU (Depleted Uranium) penetrators of the M829A1 APFSDS (used by the 120 mm guns of the Cold War era US M1 Abrams tanks), which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projectiles. We also tested the 30mm GAU-8 Avenger (the gun of the A-10 Thunderbolt II Strike Plane), the 30mm M320 (the gun of the AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter) and a range of standard NATO Anti Tank Guided Missiles – all with the same result of no penetration or effective destruction of the test vehicles. The combined protection of the standard armour and the ERA gives the Tanks a level of protection equal to our own. The myth of Soviet inferiority in this sector of arms production that has been perpetuated by the failure of downgraded T-72 export tanks in the Gulf Wars has, finally, been laid to rest. The results of these tests show that if a NATO/Warsaw Pact confrontation had erupted in Europe, the Soviets would have had parity (or perhaps even superiority) in armour” – U.S. Army Spokesperson at the show."
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>>35440274
Not sure, but considering that there are still 6000 in service and over 80000 produced, probably quite a lot.
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>>35440312
Considering that K5 was never issued en mass in the 80's, and even then to specific units arrayed against NORTHAG, it's not really an issue. Looking at pure penetration and effective armor values you can see that the M774 could deal with T-80s and M833 clearly could.

>>35440274
There's over a thousand in storage at the Sierra Army Depot right now.
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>>35439343
This is a cracking idea OP. Is video welcome? If so, please enjoy this two part British sniper training video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24LRnE6HwVo&index=3&list=PL1201241573903DAF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbq9NMoZv2c
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>>35440312
Unfortunately I don't have the study to hand (I know) but it was conducted with captured Israeli ammunition against tanks not equipped with heavy ERA (it wasn't developed yet). Nor did I previously mention ERA. The Soviet's estimated that it could penetrate the glacis armour of T-72s and T-80s which lead to 20mm of additional armour being welded on. If I remember rightly that was one of the reasons they started developing Kontakt 5.
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>>35440222
And now you may consider, that back then, when the Bundeswehr was in full power mode it had a smaller budget than today, when the BW is just a shadow, some sort of armed police with broken equipment.
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>>35440682
reunification and losing the main enemy is a helluva drug
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>>35440682
When you've got the will you don't need all the money.
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>>35440717
Aye
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Get a haircut ya commie bastards
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>>35440842
German moleskine uniforms were so unnecessary tight cut. Look at everyone else who gave their soldiers a little more room inside their clothes
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>>35441223
I think he's just a big guy
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>>35441298
Yeah that one is indeed a big one - for you. But the uniforms in general were like that . Pic related
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>>35439343

Read you mutherfuckers read:

>The role of women in the soviet armed forces
>http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a235765.pdf

Soviet army doctrine, organization and composition(old but unless you want to spend 35 bucks better than nothing)

>https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf
>https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-2.pdf
>https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf

>When the bear went over the mountain, ISBN: ISBN 1304069451
>Hidden War: A Russian Journalist's Account of the Soviet War in Afghanistan, ISBN: 080213775X
>Russian Strategic Nuclear Forces, ISBN: 0262661810

Also, I'm looking for topographics maps of Germany at least a 1:50.000 scale, at least from Erfurt to Cologne and going through Wurzburg, if they are not in kraut the better but if there is nothing else I will make do.
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>>35441855
hmm I'd try to refute you, but looking over my pictures, you do seem to make a point.
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>>35441948
Mah nigga.

Here I hope you can read hunspeak. Topo maps of the wehrmacht. Enjoy

http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/deutschland_messtischblaetter.php
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http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/lory1.ethz.ch/documents/ZB79_000.pdf
also interesting, talk between ex-WP and NATO officers on an hypothetical conflict
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Bump
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>>35439380
Is this just an exercise scenario or would they really place artillery so close to civilian infrastructure?
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>>35443086
Sometimes you just have to do that kind of stuff
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>>35439343

I've been listening to this lately. I recommend it to anybody interested in the late Cold War. It is written by an FBI agent, and the book is concerned with perhaps the most serious intelligence breach in American history. Clyde L. Conrad, and his accomplice Roderick J. Ramsay, sold the Soviets intelligence that would have absolutely crippled any attempt to defend Western Europe against a Soviet invasion by conventional means. The book isn't really /k/. It's mostly about the investigative process, meaning lots of interviews. There are no gunfights or anything like that.
But I have found it very interesting so far, and I'm willing to bet that somebody else here would also enjoy it.
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Guys, i'm looking for some pictures.
Few months back I saw Czechoslovak tankers together with NATO and Czechoslovak officers. It was one of those military trainings where enemy said could overwatch.

Does anyone have something similiar? I can't find it anymore.
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>>35439790
>Shouting UWOTM8 in muffled respirator British intensifies
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>>35443204
bumpity for communist aesthetic
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>>35443261
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>>35439482
How adorable
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>>35439447
>>35439431
My grandfather was in the USAF as air traffic control for 20+ years and was stationed in Thailand and the Philippines during Nam. They flew fighter bombers out of his bases to fuck shit up in N Vietnam but also has B52 and B47 bombers with nukes on high alert to vaporize the ruskies if the need arose.
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>>35443261
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>>35443369

The entire book is really just the FBI agent feeding the guy's narcissism in order to get him to admit stuff. Where I'm at in the book, he's well past the point where he should have known it is time to shut up. But he can't stop himself from bragging about it, like giving the Soviets access to American battle plans is just some kind of teenage prank.
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>>35443272
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>>35443416
I immediately heard this song in my head when I saw that pic.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L740ESYghT0
Commie time music was comfy.
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>>35443474
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>>35442145
About 70 pages in. Interesting stuff. I'm a bit amused at the first pact officer constantly dodging a relatively simple question and repeatedly talking about nuclear weapons when the topic is expressly conventional as the next day's talks involve nuclear strategy
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>>35444333
Yeah, a lot of them tend to avoid questions or back-track, I guess it's understandable in the circumstances
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>>35444661
It's a good read. In particular the Czech officer basically saying

>how could I have moved 4 divisions across a 2-4km front line when I'm up against 4 NATO divisions in the area? You could hold that line with 30 tanks and air support!

The Russian constantly reiterating that every Soviet plan was defensive and then the pole immediately calling him a liar the first time he talks. It's fascinating and funny at the same time. I liked the bit about Chalupa saying that the BAOR wanted to just sit behind the Weser and then they could stop anyone from getting to the Rhine.

Some of the projected loses are incredible too. Pact estimating that 30% of both NATO and Pact air forces would be gone within the first 2 days alone
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>>35445673
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I really like this thread, pls don't die
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obligatory.
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>>35446517
That will never not be awesome.
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I still would like to know where these are from
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>>35448198
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>>35448215
this is neato
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>>35448215
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>>35448299
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Bumping this. I want Moar
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I got some scans of Cold War stuff.
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/jb6twznzei5ttom/Illustrated+Guide+to+Modern+Fighters%2C+Bill+Gunston+2.zip
A book profiling various Cold War combat aircraft by Bill Gunston. I've also got his mega huge Soviet combat aircraft encyclopedia, but its way too big to fit my teeny tiny scanner.
>http://www.mediafire.com/file/3tg5m9d7lo5tck3/Archive.zip
Combat stories from various soldiers and mercs from the insurgency in British Malaysia to Angola to Vietnam to Beirut.
>>
YES, I finally found the videos again.

PRetty awesome west german stuff about MOUT - 80s style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bugWXzfjUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_XJrNGKglk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6bvlDNrqGA
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>>35449268

And more: Infantry against tonks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHicBQFFHIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhdK6V9Wn6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UZT-Y0Ziog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlMZZMxMqxc
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix-AoWrANd8
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I want more stuff to read.

This thread needs a re/k/opilation for the ar/k/
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>>35449268
>>35449284

This is pure gold. Damn kek-worthy though, but also damn interesting
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>>35444760
Just got to that bit. Classic russian and polish personalities

>What are you talking about? I was involved in all these planning and organizational meetings, there was never a 'defensive phase' to planning

It's funny reading the German commander of the NATO forces going "We were outnumbered three to one, what offensive objectives could we realistically have had?"
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>>35442145
>The way things have been presented here is that the Warsaw Pact countries were only involved in off ensive operations, but NATO was carrying out only defensive operations. Is it true? Were you satisfied with the role of people who did not intend to carry out active actions? Why did you need to strengthen forces and arms that would ensure success of an advance operation? In what way and on what basis did you plan to use the mine and nuclear belt you had created? You created belts of mines and nuclear charges along Rhine.
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>>35442145
This stuff is incredible
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>>35450951
>>35451192
You fuckers make my mouth watering. And I'm still sitting at work while the PDF is on my tablet. Cant wait to get home and continue reading. Downloaded it too late yesterday to read more than the introduction of the participants.


Pic related: 2x120mm = double dakka = 400% smoldering tank wrecks
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>>35451287
Are Chinese human?
>>
I hope we will get another comfy cold war.
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great thread, needs more attention
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>>35439380
dont mind me, just a friendly tent with an adjustable stovepipe
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>>35439487
that flag in the background makes me cringe its the wrong way arround....
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This guy is Rudi Arnstadt his death on the 14th August 1962 nearly made WW3 break out.
In the evening a couple of BGS Soldiers (Western) Marched up to the border and the east germans where building one of these Concrete Poles with the little metal thing on them.
Then when one of the BGS Soldiers stepped closer to take a picture Rudi Arnstadt told him to stop and that he is now taken Prisoner for Invading East German Soil the other BGS guy took out his rifle and aimed at him from the Hip, then Rudi Arnstadt did the same both fired a warning shot at the same time from the hip Rudi Arnstadt dropped dead to the ground.
And a fire fight broke out.
The GDR Statet it as Murder.
The BDR Statet it as an Incident.
I was in the Bundeswehr from 1956 till 1973 and we where never in such high alert then on this day.
Srry for my shitty English but i am German.
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>>35453480
As a side Note the BGS Guy was Hans Plüschke who was later on the 15th of March 1998 Killed by Ex-Stasi Members with a shooting Pencil.
Near the Location where the Rudi Arnstadt thing Happpend.
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>>35439343
The book "Into the Storm" by Tom Clancy and General Franks has a good couple of chapters on 70s-80s army tactics changes (post Vietnam and with the introduction of the Abrams tank).
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>>35453568
The pdf provided in this thread earlier that's a discussion from ex officers deals a lot with that, how the move from Active Defense to AirLand Battle changed the entire operational structure of the air forces in particular so that their main goal was to attack follow on forces.
>>
>>35439506
Pretty reductionist argument. You can find images of dilapidated infrastructure in every nation across every economic system.

More accurate analysis would be the weakening central governments of the Eastern Bloc nations since the death of Joseph Stalin, doesn't help most of the Warsaw Pact nations lacked the autonomy to manage their own internal affairs. The Soviets also had a very military centered frame of mind where most public works projects had to directly evolve from a military demand and given the Soviets had way more control of their economy than the US, this had huge implications on a number of industries loosely affiliated with the Red Army.

Before someone says some snide comment about communism, if the US cut its current military spending by the same amount the Soviets did, the US economy would completely collapse. By shear coincidence the US currently spends ~15% of its budget on the military and the Soviets are estimated to have spent the same amount in 1988*. (*according to the US government, Soviet records of the time on spending were top secret).
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>>35453480
>I was in the Bundeswehr from 1956 till 1973
Post drivers license or passport

aidonbelivit
>>
This thread has been an excellent read so far and is giving me a real nostalgia kick.
Been trying to explain to my wife (born in 84) what it was like as a kid in the late Cold War period (born in 74) and how it totally dominated your perception of the world.
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>>35453756
you know you once tell the internet your fucking age and everyone is like i dont belive it do you really think the internet is only for young people ? i am 78 now and i am still online do you really think its only for young people ?
and i vont post my fucking drivers license on 4chan good try to b8 m8
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>>35453720
Still though. You said you wanted to create a huge collection of data, and "Into the Storm" is basically a memoir of General Franks.
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>>35439353
>>35439364
This was in 'stan do
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>>35453735
>Before someone says some snide comment about communism, if the US cut its current military spending by the same amount the Soviets did, the US economy would completely collapse

It really wouldn't. The USSR in particular had more than 40% of total industry devoted to military procurement in one shape or another. The same cannot be said about any western country or any country since then.
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>>35449151
Thanks
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>>35453480
if you really are an oldfag like you claim, why come to 4chan of all places? how'd you find it?
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>>35445909
Jesus whats happening here ?
>>
>>35454468
my grandson told me about it and then i looked into it and i really like it even tho my english isnt that good.
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>>35448299
>Clearing from top of a large structure to bottom

Yeah it's nice until you have wounded you can't evac or get pinned within the building.
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Numbers stations during the cold war
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flew bombing mission over Vladivostok 88 to photograph akula fleet. uss Nimitz va 165 boomers. dropped 500 lb bombs over city substation.rescued in sea of oshtok downed us aviator.
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>>35454565
friendly soldiers comparing tanks
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tempelhof airport 1960
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>>35454565
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Crisis_of_1961
>>
>>35439431
My father served in the 80s French Army, in a logistics unit, they had combat training (patrols, shooting, AT and AA warfare etc) but knew they were fucked because the first FAMAS series were even more of a bunch of jamomatics than the first M16s in Vietnam and they'd catch a tactical nuke before getting to their trucks anyways.

But well, he got to drive big trucks through Paris, fuck up a couple rich hippies' cars with the huge ass bolts on the wheels of the truck, he had extra leave days because he shot quite well, and learned how to pull pranks involving mustard and jam with explosive grenades.
>>
>>35461697
>mustard and jam with explosive grenades.
Story time!
>>
Quick question. Say the cold war takes of around 83-85 and stays strictly conventional. In your best estimates who wins and how long does it take them to win or be driven to peace talks?
>>
This thread is so much old time /k/ it gives me goosebumps.

Not a single shitposter, just 152 posts of high quality gentlemen's discussions.

Sadly, that also shows how much the rest of /k/ sucks these days.
>>
>>35461839
yea /k/ is getting more and more /pol/ over time...
>>
>>35461825
You really should read >>35442145 before, because it will give you the knowledge, that it would have been virtually impossible to stay strictly conventional. As that german general explanys

>Breakthrough, as in "the loss of the ability to defend" would have lead us to ask for permission to use nukes

Depending on sheer volume of WP forces such a breakthrough would have been likely in some places of the border within 48-72 hours.

Keep in mind: NATO had ammo and reserves for only 30 days on the continent. Everything else would have needed to be shipped from the US.

Still, since between 83-85 there were already enough M1s and Leo2s to make a real difference along with other tech and of course the shift to new tactics, especially attacking across the border, my bet says NATO would have been able to stop them - with horrible losses though, but they would have made it

Also in that pdf

>Those soviet sci-fi expectations of 140km advancement per day
>>
Soundtrack of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_FoL8Wm_uw
>>
>>35453480

Es ist informativ, danke!
>>
>>35442145
They talk about the balance of force shifting heavily over to the Soviets in the 70s, but from my understanding the Soviets and the Warsaw Pact in general had been in a much superior state of force since the end of WW2? Is that not correct? Chalupa even mentions on pg 73 of the document that NATO should have taken military action in 1953 for Berlin or 1956 for Hungary because he says there was a military option. But they were incredibly heavily outnumbered then. What military option is he talking about?
>>
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DIA report comparing US/USSR tech, 1989: edocs.nps.edu/2014/May/SovietMilPower1989.pdf

>ICBMs: Parity
>SSBNs: US superior
>SLBMs: US superior, trending parity
>Bombers: US superior
>SAMs: USSR superior
>Ballistic Missile Defense: USSR superior
>Anti-satellite: USSR superior
>Cruise Missiles: Parity, trending US superior
>SAMs (Including Naval): Parity, trending USSR superior
>Tanks: Parity, trending USSR superior
>Artillery: Parity
>Infantry Combat Vehicles: Parity
>ATGMs: Parity, trending USSR superior
>Attack Helicopters: US superior, trending parity
>Chemical Warfare: USSR superior
>Biological Warfare: USSR superior
>Fighter/Attack and Interceptor Aircraft: US superior, trending parity
>Air-to-Air Missiles: US superior, trending parity
>Air-to-Surface Munitions: US superior, trending parity
>Airlift Aircraft: US superior, trending parity
>SSNs: US superior, trending parity
>Torpedoes: Parity
>Sea-Based Aircraft: US superior
>Surface Combatants: US superior, trending parity
>Naval Cruise Missiles: Parity, trending USSR superior
>Mines: USSR Superior
>Communications: Parity
>ECM/ECCM: US superior, trending parity
>Early Warning: Parity
>Surveillance and Reconnaissance: US superior, trending parity
>Training Simulators: US superior
>>
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>>35462024
Not quite sure which type of actions were being discussed, possibly a UN-intervention in '56. I doubt Chalupa meant all-out-war between NATO and the WP.
While the Soviet Army had a larger Army, the US was dominant in a strategic sense, with a much larger nuclear stockpile and delivery systems well into the 60's.
>>
>>35461857
Yeah there's a lot of talk about AirLand Battle and how one of its primary focuses was to attack follow on forces. The Soviets seemed to really dislike this as they mention having to substantially beef up rear echelon security and defense, taking men and material away from other areas and how in general it slowed everything down.

>Those soviet sci-fi expectations of 140km advancement per day

Yeah I like how Chalupa went "150km a day means you're at the Rhine by day 2." the Polish guy flat out saying that 150km was sci-fi and that everything depended upon follow on forces and they could only be expected to make 60km a day at best. Then the Soviet general basically ends up clarifying "150km a day was the goal in the late 60s and 70s, but realistically those of us on the ground thought 60km at best would be all that was feasible."

It's also neat how Chalupa talks about how he was constrained to a pretty bad strategic and tactical position purely because something like 40% of the population lived within 50-60km of the border and politically it was mandated to fight at the border. I mentioned earlier how he kinda laughed at the British wanting to just defend at the Weser, which is strategically sound but politically impossible.

I'm currently at Day 2 where they're starting to talk about nukes, one of the first things that's mentioned is that tactical use at the low level is extremely difficult because of how many variables go into the use and how easy it can be to ruin the entire purpose of the strike in the first place because of collateral damage from even 1kt.
>>
>>35461857
One thing in particular that keeps getting me about this is how there seems to be something of an annoyance with the French from the Germans for pulling out of NATO and not being considered any help. There's numerous mention of simply not expecting the French to do anything meaningful until the Pact was in Lorraine.
>>
>>35462403
Yeah I've noticed too.

And I mean look at the big picture: Every single euro Country (aside from swedecucks) was involved in NATO and ready to fight for germany. Only france bugged out, although they sure would have been a VERY capable force also had stregnthened the whole NATO deterrence - conventional and nuclear

And what makes it worse: In case of war france would have had to fight on german soil because they alone wouldnt have been able to resist the WP. But since they more or less left NATO, their effort could not be integrated into the whole NATO defence plan.

Thats basically the same as if one of the offensive tackles of your team refuses to train with the others, get integrated into the offense plan but still wants to play on match day.

I'm not into that white flag frenchie bullshit, but leaving NATO was an ass move of DeGaulle and not getting in again later was also shit
>>
>>35462774
Wasn't the whole point of France living NATO to prevent any kind of confrontation with WP?
Why would they have to fight alongside NATO?
>>
>>35462774
I agree. There's some talk during the round table about how the French being their own separate but not separate force really hampered planning. Chalupa mentions that the French had 3 divisions in southern Germany as a remnant of occupation forces, and then says he couldn't do anything with them because they were independent. He even comes off as either annoyed or aggravated in particular about France being completely separate in their nuclear planning and doctrine which meant that he didn't have control of when or how escalation might occur. It's all really fascinating to read. I wish they had a French commander there as well as British and maybe even Chinese though I doubt the last one is possible.

One thing that struck me as very interesting was that there's this general idea on both sides that the Generals claim that the politicians in the US and USSR just assumed that their countries wouldn't be attacked directly. Meanwhile the generals basically all say "Any war in Europe of course would be a war with direct strikes against Russia and the United States, there was no other way around it.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVFPQsCzMRo
The 3600 special forces from the MFS would have fucked whole western europe....let alone the 20000 paratroopers of the Nva. Only purpose: Infiltrate and wreak havoc among Nato members.Civil uprise.
>>
>>35463082
> civil uprise

I guess the reality of the West would have had some baaad news for them.


But I do believe that a war would have lead east german people, sure the poles and eventally the Czechs, Ukrainians and Belarusians to revolt.

Lol, commies want to create uprising in the west while they are waging war on the west, killing thousands of civilians.
>>
>>35463082
20000 paratroopers of the NVA

so you're talking about the LStR 40 which was a regiment that consisted of about 3000 soldiers and was well known the only Airborne force of the East Germany army? Where are the other 17000 dudes?

I know: hidden in your salty Ossie-Phantasies
>>
Wich realty? That even the chief of the BND in the 80' was a MFS agent? I am sure they had that on screen.
The reality of the huge left wing supporter scene in the west?
The reality that 10 clowns of the RAF had the Brd in a deadlock for 20 years?
>>
>>35463082
Come on, I think the Warsaw Pact would've won a WW3 in Europe, but I think it's ridiculous. At which point would the NVA have 20K paratroopers? How would the super-Americanised Wessies suddenly become turbo communists and rise against Bonn because some Stasi guy hiding behind his Mercedes told him so while handing him a bottle of Vita Cola?
The main threat posed by these guys - and their main goal in the heads of Warsaw Pact military thinkers - was the elimination of tactical nuke vectors, higher ranked officers, and the sabotage of communication and electricity networks. No need to lose time trying to convince Werner to lift hit fat ass from the couch after his long day at the Opel factory and fight for the proletariat.
>>
This is is the CBO's 1988 study of the conventional ground forces balance in Europe.
https://ufile.io/6anrv
>>
>>35461802
>be my father
>born and raised on a farm, driving tractors, gathering eggs and shit
>time to serve
>older (23 yo instead of 18) so sent to a regiment with a lot of problematic people
>illiterate polynesians, parisian faggots, dad's boys, inbred fucks, you name it
>get good reputation among brass bc smart and taught the Polynesians French
>get good reputation w/the Colonel because he does a great job
>get good reputation among NCOs because country smart and more mature than the other guys
>day56thebrasshasn'tnoticedi'maconscript.wav
>NCOs annoyed by momma's boys and faglets who whine during exercises
>complain about it to father
>father is also friend with the regiment's armorer
>get ahold of training grenades
Little note : I don't know how training grenades are in other countries, but the French ones are a blue plastic... grenade, with a little cordite inside, as much as in a 5.56 round, and filled with plaster to mark everyone hit by it during exercises.
>empty dumb ass plaster
>put shit inside
>difficult to get in sufficient amounts without scooping other guys' shit, project abandoned
>scrape the crust on awful smelling cheese, put inside grenade
>too clumpy, not enough dispersion, project abandoned
>try with mustard and jam
>perfect dispersion, easy acquisition, project adopted
>go around at night during camp exercises
>chuck grenades in faggots' tents while nobody's watching
>fags wake up in shock, covered in random stuff
>quickly learn about the secondary effects
>mustard stings, especially when encrusted in socks and underwear
>jam sticks and attracts insects
>this becomes more and more usual
>brass rages, NCO don't see anything happening at night :^)
>problematic recruits quickly fall back in line
>father keeps doing it because luls
>jam covered faggots attract mosquitoes, so my father doens't get stung
>it's a win win
>keeps pulling this shit for the whole service
>NCOs laugh their asses off when my father "confesses" when demobilised
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>>35463545
>>
>>35463269
>CBO

But they're wrong about literally everything. I'd rather read about what the actual commanders thought.
>>
>be my dad
>be poor af (as everyone) city influx
>be enlist and taken to the other end of the country to serve in navy
>be medic assistant
>pretty comfy role because you sit all day in garrison and help for medic to stand shit load of injured conscript-peasants
>sometimes someone brings you vodka so you so you accept him as someone ill and put in bed so he can avoid cruel and pointless trinings
but sometimes it is not so fine
>oh anon, this guy hanged himself and we found him three days after that, take him off
>oh anon, this guy cut off his ears and put them to beetroot soup with dumplings (in Poland we call "ears" on dumplings so that one is pretty funny)
>oh anon, this fucking pincushion again injected decoction of poppies (very poorly made heroine), shit in the pants and is semi-concious, clean him and bring back to life before the commander comes
cold war polish army was pretty interesting
>>
>>35464231
Poland is strange.
>>
Not that much military, but whilke my father was in military

> Be my dad
> Born in the GDR, getting conscripted into the NVA
> Single child, father died relatively early of cancer
> wanting to come home for christmass 1978 so that mother is not alone
> Find trainroute which will allow to come on 24.12.
> but is not possible to reach with normal freetime
> ask camp commandant for earlier leave, kommandant allows it
> The winter of 78 was very harsh, so entire barracks was ordered ten minutes before christamss vacation to the browncoal mines.
> My father was the only one who could get away

Other stories he had
> being part of the plane mechanics at some airbase in northern GDR, close to poland
> Mechanics are needed in Peenemünde for some excercise or similar
> Young Leutnant volunteers, his troop needs to come with him
> Leutnant is fresh from school, and not very liked, always had a bigger mouth than stomach behind it
> transport is done by using an An-2 transport biplane
> notoriously known for flying like a boat at high sea
> everybody is used to it, but not the leutnant
> leutnant is very silent
> rest of the trip leutnant emptied his breakfast into nearby bags
>>
Not exactly what you're looking for, but here's a noice BAOR slideshow set to music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgHvC-3buz0
>>
>>35461857
From what I understood the Soviets planned to use tactical nukes from the start.
>>
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The Mighty Antar transporter. The British Army's tank transporter for nearly 4 decades.

It was powered by a modified Merlin V8 engine.

I've stood next to one of these and you wouldn't believe the noise that engine makes.
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>>35463545
kek
>>
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How much there would have been looting after WP invaded west? Would it have slowed WP advance?
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>>35451590
Politics is inhuman.
>>
>>35460388
*Sniff* RIP Tempelhof, now home to mudslimes...
>>
>>35443261
>>35443272
>>35443474
>>35443688
Commie girls a cute!
>>
>>
>>35440165
>>35443261
Partied with East German military pattaya beach Thailand 89. Sent us to he she's slit one of ours throat. Fun bunch
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>>35443474
I love stassi baby
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>>35463545
L E G E N D

How did he fuck up hippie cars? Like hitting them with the truck's lug-nuts that stick out?
>>
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>>35464231
>>oh anon, this guy cut off his ears and put them to beetroot soup with dumplings

He cut off his own ears for a joke? Am I understanding this correctly?
>>
>>35451590
of course not
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>30kg of artificial rubies
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Albanian Army, military drill.
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>OHS is for commies
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420mm of transmission trashing firepower
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Soviet troops withdrawing from East Germany 1989
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>>35471119
>>35471142
>>35471152
>>35471170

That's about a decade away from the Cold War that ended in 1990
>>
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>>35471199
Fug, it's been ages since I last read about it
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T H I C C
>>
>>35471297
post t29
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>>35471318
>>35471314
Afraid I haven't got any of those slags
>>
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If this thread is up tomorrow, I'll help pitch in.
>>
>>35471514
>That collection
So nicely organized, makes me want to drool...
>>
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stasi qt 3.14
>>
>>35471514
OP here. Thank you and no worries. If the thread dies, I'm gonna make part II. Seems like it was a good idea because the thread became EXACTLY what I wanted it to be.

Also thanks @ every Anon here because no shitposters at all.
>>
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west german border guards or nazis in vietnam


https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/wwii-equipment-of-the-bundesgrenzschutz/
>>
>>35471417
>Fine late summer saturday 1985
>driving around in your brand new Opel Manta GSI
>Your qt3.14 GF (not shaven anywhere because she's german and this is the middle of the 80s) is wearing her sexy summer dress
>Wow, shes totally naked underneath
>Driving over the Landstrasse, you're already eyeballing for a Feldweg with some bush to stop your Manta and bang the everloving shit outta her.
>Hit the gas, suddenly MRLS

Cock blocked by NATO
>>
>>35471877
love that aestitic Huey+Stahlhelm+kar98+it aint me also in b4 border guards moar lieke devils guard
>>
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>>35471514
Wew laddeh you better share that shit
>>
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TFW you realize that Western Europe would have been saved if we'd never bothered with the Cold War and just let Stalin conquer it. Imagine France or Sweden being as based today as Poland or Hungary is.
>>
This is a great photo essay. Imagine having the Berlin Wall in your backyard.
http://mashable.com/2016/05/06/berlin-wall-1986/
>>
>>35471877
>There were other problems as well; especially during the time of the Korean War, Soviet and East German troops took potshots at West German civilians across the border. In 1953 BGS units were assigned to guard farmers during their harvest on fields along the border.

For some reason I thought that the German border was more civilized than the Korean one. I guess commies are always shits.
>>
>>35439346
*everon flashbacks*
>>
>>35472039
Fuck off Ivan. You do know the roots of this SJW shit is soviet psyops against western countries right?
>>
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>>35471893
>(not shaven anywhere because she's german and this is the middle of the 80s)


Why does this make my peepee feel weird? I want a natural german 80s qt too!
>>
>>35472102
You wouldn't believe how much shit happened there.

My dad and his brother in law used to drive to the border on weekends, camp there and watch the border guards through binocs. Sometimes they used an E-tool to throw their shit over the border to the eastern side (my dad used to joke they tried to activate a landmine with a pile of free western shit)

Once they saw how the border guards caught a hiking family that had gotten lost and accidentially infiltrated the exclusion zone behind the border. Commies held them (even the kids) at gunpoint, butt stroke for daddy. Commies arn't human mayne
>>
OP here. Image limit reached, new thread

>>35472227
>>35472227
>>35472227
>>35472227
>>35472227
>>
>>35464985
>I've stood next to one of these and you wouldn't believe the noise that engine makes.

Muh. Fucking. Dick.
>>
>>35470750
Holy... that must have been dangerous as fuck with that rotor underneath you.
>>
>>35439661
Sweet, post pics anon




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