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why is his army a joke /k/?
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>>35472249
>was
he's dead, dude
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>>35472249
Italians only know how to lose.
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>>35472249
In part because they modernized too quickly. They would have shit all over everyone in the early 30s, but by the 40s most of their stuff was at least a decade out of date. With the notable exception of top-of-the-lime fighter planes, at least. Then there was a certain arrogance that made them think they were superior to everyone else and didn't need to modernize, their Roman manifest destiny will carry them through or some shit.
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Their women are so hairy that the men had no motivation to fight for them.
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>>35472256
Their meme status is eternal however
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After Rome fell, the Italians lost their will to conquer.
They'd much rather drink wine and eat pasta than go to war, and I can't say I blame them.
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>>35472400
>They are morale was
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>>35472249
Because if I recall correctly, Italy still needed two more years to equip its army, but the Germans couldn't wait any longer. Also: Italians being good at anything that is not cooking.
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>>35472249 (OP)
(1) Italy wasn't industrialized enough to compete with top of the line armies in a war of attrition
(2) Their morale was apparently pretty shit from what I heard
(3) They weren't motorized enough and their AFVs were complete shit (save for some good armored cars and some assault guns, but these only were produced in small numbers)
(4) Their navy (Regia Marina) was good, but not as strong as the Royal Navy, and the ships had some significant flaws (an extremely ineffective anti-torpedo system, for example)

To illustrate my first point, just compare these two lists and take a look at Italian and German aircraft production during the war: while Germany built tens of thousands of its standard designs, the Italians only built one thousand aircraft of even their most numerous designs.
Note that the Allies topped the seemingly high number of German production, and it becomes clear why Italy didn't really stand a chance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Regia_Aeronautica_aircraft_used_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_military_aircraft_of_Germany

>>35472300
This is also a good point.
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>>35472433
>Italians
>being good at cooking
Maybe if you're a fucking faggot. Nothing beats northern European fermented everything or a good old Anglo-Saxon roast.
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>>35472441
>Actual homosexual calling anyone a faggot
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My dad (who's Italian) told me that one time Mussolini went to an airbase and it was full of top of the line fighter planes so he's like gg guys. Goes to tour another airbase and it's also full of top of the line planes. Every airbase he visits is full of top of the line fighter planes.
>The airforce was flying the same planes to every airbase he visited so it looked like they were top shit.
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>>35472249
Half the country was still in the process of industrialization. Mussolinis modernization programs were going along decently well, but then the war started and Italy had to fight just to get the entire country into the 20th century while everyone else was already tooled the fuck up.

Modern Italian stuff isn't bad.
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>>35472487
sounds like Italy alright
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>>35472487

That's a true story, ya know.

>>35472249

Well, lemme talk about Italy in the 20th century. I can focus on fascism later, but it's essential to understand that Fascist Italy was merely Italy "pretending": most of the underlying problems were worsened by Fascism (cronism, for a start). Let's start from WW1.

Born of a muddy diplomatic deal with France and Britain, it was a deeply unpopular war. The traditional problems of shitty equipment, lack of common language and the shittiest officer class you can think of made the Italian front the mockery it's known as. It was also an incredibly lethal enviroment, imagine fighting in sub-zero temperatures with crap uniforms and your officers are more bent on killing you than the enemy. Caporetto, the great defeat, was a textbook example of the failures of the Italian leadership. Italy won because the Austria-Hungary collapsed by itself.

Fascism. Ohhh, Fascism. I could write a 50 pages paper on fascist and warfare. Italy won the campaign against the British in Somaliland. Italy lost on all other fronts. The problem was, at the basic level, that Italy was a piss poor country with shitty industrial capacity, a good infantry tradition, and hilariously terrible commanders and leadership. Again, we can talk endlessly how Mussolini in reality had little control on his own country, how the industrial output was worse than WW1 levels, how propaganda was an abject failure, how the officer class was STILL a bunch of spiteful dumbfucks (at lower levels, Italian soldiers fought, often quite well. Matters little when the overall situation is a shitstorm, though). The Navy was.... terrified. Think that no one wanted to engage the British because they were scared as fuck to get sacked if they lost a ship: so they never dared to act aggressively, even when they HAD THE FUCKING ADVANTAGE. The Air arm was a mess of glory hounds, shit training and good designs without the industrial capacity to build them.
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>>35474418

Furthermore, most equipment was indeed meme-tier. The Carcano is a good rifle, but ammunition was problematic. We won't even talk about infantry support weapons, the Brixia mortars and the Breda 30 are meme-tier weapons alread (disclaimer: I like a lot Carcanos and Beretta 34s, they are fun guns).

About "industrial equipment" AHAHAHAH. Tanks were built by Ansaldo-FIAT, hellbent on giving the shittiest designs known to man just to make money. ALL Italian tank designs for a decade were designed by the same man, and pushed through thanks to cronism and corruption. Hell, Ansaldo-FIAT managed to beat Hitler, as they torpedoed a deal to get Pz-IVs that was ordered by olf AH himself (and also torpedoed deals to get PZ-IIIs and Czech tanks). The tank history of Italy is bloody hilarious, I could waste entire posts on shitty yet hilarious episodes like the "tank competition" done in Africa against Pz-IIIs that ended up with the half of the M-models refusing to start their engines and one breaking down during the "race", leaving a single M tank to the end line several minutes after the German tanks. Just sad.

Air forces, lol. Tons of designs, some were even good, not a single good engine to be found. Had to beg to the Germans after a while. Shitty inndustrial production meant no chance to replace losses (like Romanians, in a way). At least the fighter designs were good, the story of the bomber designs is hilarious: several Caproni prototypes were accepted despite flat-out not working.

But one can drone on endlessly about this trivia. This is, the poor fuckers fought with this crap. Do ya know that frontline Italian troops in North Africa sometimes went for 30 months without R&R? Horrible conditions,and some even managed to fight.
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>>35474506
Drone on about that stuff after you're finished with what you're posting about now.
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>>35474506
>Italian bombers were crap
Wew lad
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>>35472249
Their problem was that they allied themselves with Hitler. Hitler's army was already unprepared for war, much less the Italians.

>>35474418
>The Navy was.... terrified. Think that no one wanted to engage the British because they were scared as fuck to get sacked if they lost a ship: so they never dared to act aggressively, even when they HAD THE FUCKING ADVANTAGE.
I think if the Italian Navy tried to push against the Royal Navy they would have lost and then Italy would be worse off had they lost the threat of their fleet in being. Italy just never had enough ships.
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>>35474506

plz gib links to hilarious stories of italian failure.
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>>35474418
remember the italian navy didn't have radars while the brits did, pretty much a fight between a blind man and a kangaroo
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>>35474856

Were those radar suitable for giving the guns fire solutions? Because if not, a simple radar warning receiver tells you you have been deteceted and there is a 50% chance you can turn into a decent battle-line and close up on the emissions.

If it's radar directed guns then you're fucked.
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The Italian submarine force managed to acquit themselves fairly well, and their human torpedoes and frogmen had a few wild missions.
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Imagine being Rommel in that front and having to be all like "damn, Italy, you fuckin' fine, all sexy with your fat body and horrific pizza monster face. I would totally fight with you, both my propaganda character and the real me." when all he really wants to do is invade the oil fields. Like seriously imagine having to be Rommel and not only sit in that Panzer while Mussolini flaunts his disgusting army in front of you, the favorable lighting barely concealing the pivots in his garbage tanks, and just sit there, operation after operation, hour after hour, while he perfected that maneuver. Not only having to tolerate her monstrous fucking visage but her haughty attitude as everyone on set tells her she's STILL GOT IT and DAMN, MUSSOLINI LOOKS LIKE *THAT*?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch his mannish fucking gremlin face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been fucking nothing but a healthy diet of France, Poland and later alleged rape victims for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies in Prussia. You've never even seen anything this fucking disgusting before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on her dimpled stomach as she sucks it in to writhe it suggestively at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to get paid to sit there and revel in her "Romanesque (for that is what she calls herself)" beauty, the beauty she worked so hard for with personal trainers in the previous months. And then the F├╝hrer calls for another take, and you know you could blitzkrieg every single person in this country before the reich security could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because you're fucking Rommel. You're not going to lose your future political career over this. Just bear it. Hide your face and bear it.
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>>35474856

No. No. It's worse.

The Italians had radar. They had both a hilariously underfunded research team that bought material from the US, AND some dudes that managed privately to build a functioning radar. The Navy refused to finance the first team and shot down the second one, 'cause radar was "useless" and a "waste of money". Comes 1941 and everyone runs around screaming.

>>35474602

It depends. Ya know, the quintessential "WW2 airplane" for the Italians (as much as the Italians themselves remember WW2) is the S.M. 79. Thing is, medium bombers quickly became obsolete and there was an hard-on for approving new shitty prototypes just because.

>>35474852

I will comply as soon as I find the time. But if you want a good and quick read in English I suggest Hitler's Italian Allies, by MCGregor. It's not particularly in-depth, but it explains some of the typical Italian problems.

And furthermore, I'd like to add that much of the WW2 "pop kultur" about the Italians is .... somewhat wrong. British propaganda did a very good work, painting Italians like, I don't know, subhuman buffoons (think of Bogart's 1943 Sahara). Italian soldiers were, bar the M formations, kinda good at their job. They were simply put often and without regard into untenable positions by their superiors, instead of "concentrating force" Fascist Italy focused on "Dissipating Force". The Eastern Front is the greatest example: the ARMIR had the best equipment that Italy had (siphoning much-needed supplies from North Africa) and against Soviet tech and tactics it was still ... lacking. Wasted lives.
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>>35472249

Shit generals, officers corp, morale, training, organization and communication.

There were only two things in the Italian army that were decent, the expeditionary force in Russia, and the SMGs.
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>>35472300

>They would have shit all over everyone in the early 30s
Then explain Operation Compass where the british force was using outdated equipment.
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>>35475135

Lol. The conventional Italian submarine force was old and got mauled like hell: if I remember right, something like 20% losses in THREE WEEKS of submarine warfare.

Conventional Italian sub forces quickly faded into irrelevance, bar for spurios claims of sinking American battleships.

The frogmen did well, sure, but it was a drop in the bucket. But a good example of daring working against all odds, yes.

>>35475228

Rommel knew well the Italians. Maybe for his peculiar activities during the Caporetto offensive, when he beat them to shit.

But this is not the place to discuss the Rommel Myth.
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>>35475268
Rommel still had to say that the Italians were badass for propaganda in his wochenschau appearence though
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>>35475268
>202,000 tons of ships sunk
>a drop in the bucket
Tippity toppity wew
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>>35475348

It's WW2 M8. It is fucking nothing.
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>>35475266
Because the British were attacking multiple different Italian camps that were horrendously under supplied.
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>>35475359
>a full fourth of British warships lost in the Mediterranean
>a drop in the bucket
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>>35475395
Ya
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>>35472249
his industry really wasn't ready for the German invasion of the USSR
and the war in Greece was badly planned
other than that he did alright
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>>35475052
i'm going by memory here but i'm pretty sure the navy did not have ANY kind of radar at all in the few first years od the war, hell the anti air defences for cities right at the start was a couple of spotlight and a sinle light AA

night battles at sea were a nightmare as the brits had the radar signatures of the italian battleships and fired extremely accurately while the italian navy resorted to fire blindly in the general directione the shots came from
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>>35477341

No serious radar was considered until 1941. All functional radars afterwards were provided by the Germans.

AA defence was eyes, sound devices and bells. Wish I was joking, the guy who spotted the Taranto attack had to use a fucking BELL to signal the alarm.

>>35475659

Alright? He went from senior to junior to subordinate to puppet to the Germans in the blink of an eye. Fascist Italy lost all the campaigns, bar British Somaliland. "Alright".
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>>35478666
Italians defeated the initial British invasions of the Dodecanese
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>>35474418
>>35474506
>>35475228
Laughing so hard right now. Sacred of waking up my parents.




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