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So, /k/, was it justified?
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>>35828152
yes
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>>35828152
No, because without it we would have invaded and slaughtered millions of Japs, and the Blood God demands Blood.
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No, the Japs would have surrendered because of the Soviet invasion anyway.
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>>35828152
>get a massive economic power under our wings so big that everyone in the 80's thought they'd rule the world
It was either that or the Russians coming in from the north to liberate school girls from their panties
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>>35828152
I'd say yes. People who point to Japan offering to surrender ignore the fact that the Japanese had rejected the Potsdam declaration, and had just spent the past 3 years giving the Americans every reason to believe that they'd rather be completely annihilated than surrender. Look at missions like Operation Ten-Go, where they pissed away their flagship and the last remnants of their navy on a lost cause. You can't negotiate with people like.
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>>35828247
At that point, though, is it even a war anymore? Attrition is a very real thing and it is a serviceable tactic to let your enemies be crushed by their own weight.
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Of course not, but people still believe all the 75-year-old propaganda about "muh Japs muh Nazis 'Merica stronk" that nobody is allowed to criticize dropping atomic bombs on innocent civilians lest your patriotism be called into question.
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>>35828279
They could have just blockaded the island. Then millions of civvies would have starved, and we'd all be in a thread with a map of the US naval positions around the island and an OP saying "Was it justified?"

The Soviets also needed a demonstration that the Americans had the power to make their post-war land grab a lot harder than it needed to be.
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Here are the pertinent facts of the matter.

>Imperial Japan was run by a cabinet
>in order to make peace, the cabinet had to vote universally
>by law, this cabinet had to include representatives of the armed forces
>the armed forces were refusing to surrender unless they were allowed to keep Korea, be tried for war crimes in a Japanese court, and allowed to keep the emperor as head of state
>the armed forces were not only willing to destroy Japan utterly rather than accept an unconditional surrender, but they wee actively preparing to do so
>a blockade of the home islands would have killed tens of millions by famine, which is incidentally why the US had to desperately rush food into Japan as they began to occupy the country, because Japan wasn't self sufficient in food and the US had destroyed the entire Japanese merchant marine
>an invasion of the home islands would have resulted in millions of casualties
>the atomic bombings were explicitly referenced by both the emperor and the armed forces as the reason that the pro-peace faction in the Japanese cabinet was able to convince the armed forces to end the war and avert these outcomes
>under the laws of war in effect during the war, there was no requirement for proportionality in aerial bombing; as long as ANY military target was hit, any amount of force was legal
>the Japanese themselves killed a large number of Chinks with random attacks on Chinese urban areas in an attempt to break Chinese morale, no Japanese military officer was punished for this

Any response that doesn't address these facts is irrelevant to the discussion.
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>>35828395
>implying Japan ever attacked any non-military targets in the US
Look, I'm not saying "muh Japan did nothing wrong," but how is it justified to massacre hundreds of thousands of innocent people just going about their lives because of what their runaway military did in another country? Why haven't we followed this doctrine whenever a nuclear power goes to war against a non-nuclear country since then? Would the UK have been justified in dropping a nuke on Buenos Aires during the Falklands War?
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>>35828481
>>implying Japan ever attacked any non-military targets in the US
Not for lack of effort

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cherry_Blossoms_at_Night
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>>35828395

How did the Soviet invasion of Manchuria factor into it?
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>>35828152
Here is a better question with all the sanctions amd war mongering usa does would it be justifiable for a super power country to nuke usa in order to stp usa from doing all the war it does?
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>>35828549

It’s coming don’t worry.
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>>35828481
>be Japan, 1942
>no nukes are dropped
>war continues
>every Japanese soldier dies
>Japanese women, children, and elderly are pressed into service as Americans reach homeland
>for the Emperor
>be dead
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Had that punk bitch Truman not deleted Stimsons' stipulation in the Potsdam Accords for conditional surrender (which ended up being the end result anyway,) it probably wouldn't have been.

But because he was a punk bitch it ended up being necessary.

Punk ass bitch.
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>>35828549
>>35828561
No the answer is no

Bombign and nuking civilians is wrong

Bet the higher ups dont give a fuck about civilians only abput aproral ratings
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>>35828200
Does this god sit upon a throne of some kind?
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>>35828585
Do you honestly believe that would have happened, or are you just parroting what your middle-school history teacher told you? If the Japanese were so dead-set on fighting the Americans down to the last man, woman, and child, why were there virtually no guerrilla reprisal attacks on Americans during the post-war occupation? Why did Japanese women immediately start hooking up with Americans after the war?
>inb4 all women are thots
The point is that Japanese people aren't stupid. We've been fighting low-IQ Muslim fanatics in the Middle-East for decades who actually do sometimes arm their women and children, and are dedicated enough to commit suicide attacks, but we haven't nuked them.
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Yes, because the people were aiding the enemy.
If you help a criminal you'll get arrested and, be charged with aiding and abiding a fugitive.
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>>35828481
>in the US

Doesn't matter.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't hold somebody accountable for violating the laws and customs of war of there's no law or custom against what they did.

Being that the Japanese intentionally slaughtered Chinese civilians from the air, it is entirely reasonable to assume that they didn't have any custom against aerial bombing.

Try to keep up.
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>>35828711
So that means American civilians deserve to be nuked as well considering all the misdeeds our government has done to other countries over the decades.
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>>35828522
The Japanese knew that their colonies were fucked, their plan was to stage a decisive defensive battle in the home islands themselves in an effort to break America's will and get better terms.

Note that this is what they'd been trying to do over and over again since Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese high command was not good at pattern recognition.
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>>35828731
>two wrongs make a right
So because our military drone-strikes civilians in the Middle-East, it would be justified for an outside power like Russia or China to nuke a US city?
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good enough for me bombs away yay :)
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>>35828685
He does, in fact. It's composed primarily of craniums.
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>>35828705
Do you have a single factual example to suggest that the people of a totalitarian state wouldn't fight if ordered to?

Because the Russians certainly continued to fight.

The Germans continued to fight.

The Paraguayans in the 1880s continued to fight.

People in a totalitarian state fight until they're ordered not to fight. This is the historical pattern.
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>>35828152
>army fucked
>navy fucked
>supply chain fucked
>cities fucked
>soviets about to invade
they were pretty much ready to surrender, the bombs weren't required
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>>35828757
Sounds sick. We should get more craniums!
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It was to show the USSR the power we had.
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>>35828522
Unless you're a communist who thought the usar put the biggest dent in Japan by invading extremely late, it really wasn't that important as Japan was cutting its losses already
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>>35828705
>why were there virtually no guerrilla reprisal attacks
The Emperor, who they revered as a god, ordered them not to.
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>>35828753
>two wrongs make a right

Doesn't know how customary international law works detected.

There are two avenues by which an action can considered illegal in international law.

If there's a treaty against it (spoilers: there wasn't)

Or if it's outside of the normal customs of war.

This is why "laws and customs of war" is a term of art in international law.

If the US prosecuted Japanese commanders for attacking Chinese cities, that would lend credence to the claim that such a custom existed.

In fact, every power in the war engaged in indiscriminate bombings of civilian areas, which means that it was completely legal.
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Yup, bombs away. :)
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>>35828481
They bombed and strafed civilians in Hawai'i.
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>>35828247
>people
Africans are people. Chinese are people. Arabs are people. Even those blue-eyed demons are considered people by most.

Japs are not people.
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>>35828152
absolutely yes
just ask the Chinese if the japs deserved it
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Japan goes for pearl harbor gets some civilians
US aims for some military bases gets some cities
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>>35828783
This is the only correct answer.
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>>35828769
They continued to fight until they surrendered, same with Japan. The point was that Japan would have surrendered anyway without using nukes to vaporize hundreds of thousands of people. People who defend using the nukes make the absurd claim that Japan would have sent their kindergartners and grandmas to the front lines before surrendering.
>>35828792
And yet he magically became not-god after the surrender?
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>>35828800
So, basically, two wrongs make a right.
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>>35828787

It’s not about putting the biggest dent in Japan, it’s about who was the greatest threat to Japan in 1945. The Soviets would have had a much easier time swamping the Japs with literally millions of battle hardened troops from Europe than the Americans would with their relatively small land force in the pacific.
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do you think japan deserves a third nuking?
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>>35828843
>And yet he magically became not-god after the surrender?
No. Shintoists still believe the emperor is a god.
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>>35828843
It was a term of surrender, no one really bought it at the time though, regardless their plan was to do that, as the whole "Thousand Shattered Jewels" was their go to for a mainland invasion, not to mention these were the guys who invented the term Kamikaze and were suicide charging during the up until this point, what makes you think they wouldn't? Hell the generals tried to assassinate the Emperor while he was on his way to surrender AFTER the Nukes were dropped
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>>35828843
>The point was that Japan would have surrendered anyway without using nukes to vaporize hundreds of thousands of people

Why?

Why would the Japanese military have backed away from a fight when every single decision they made up until that point indicated that they would rather fight to the bitter end?

Because it would have been the rational thing to do? If that were the criteria for their decision making, they never would have attacked Pearl Harbor.

These are people who had a pathological aversion to surrender, who had committed their military for eight years in a pointless bloodbath in China, and who had explicitly, repeatedly refused every American offer of surrender before the atom bombs.

We have historical precedents for this. The besieged people in Leningrad accepted a fatality rate in the double digits rather than surrender to Germans. The people of Paraguay did not lay down their arms until three quarters of the population was dead. There were German units fighting even after Hitler was dead.
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>>35828787
>>35828888

Also if you look at who actually did put the biggest dent in Japan it was probably China, since the majority of their casualties were sustained there.
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Nuke china
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>>35828890
maybe?
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>>35828860
>I lost the argument so I'm going to pretend I was just trolling

We're talking about legality in this discussion.

It was right because it saved millions of innocent lives and made the world a better place.

It was legal because it was a common, accepted practice by the international community of the time, and because there were no treaties or conventions banning it.
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>>35828906
To be fair Pearl harbor would have worked on any opponent they faced up until that point.
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yup
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two weren't enough
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>>35828152
NEVER FORGET
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even back then people were wearing clothes with knees blown out
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>>35828930
They didn't really get Americans, and they used magical thinking to fill in for their lack of experience.

They honestly believed that the US would surrender if they thought the war was going to be hard. The entire premise of Pearl Harbor is that if they could dig in hard enough, the US would surrender rather than use their superior industrial might to dislodge them.

They kept up that hope until the atom bombs, because the alternative was surrender, and they preferred death to surrender.
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>>35828906
>Why would the Japanese military have backed away from a fight when every single decision they made up until that point indicated that they would rather fight to the bitter end?
Because the US could have simply demonstrated the power of the atomic bomb by attacking a purely military target.

And yes, I'm aware that the Japanese military did not want to surrender after the first bombing, so the second one was dropped. My point is that it's still not justified to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people just because of the actions of their country's military. It's probably even less justified in a totalitarians state because the average person has no say-so in what the government or military does. At least in the United States we have some semblance of democracy.
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ぺっぷく
切腹
seppuku
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>>35828926
>we're going to save innocent lives by taking innocent lives
You see how stupid that sounds? And the debate has never been about what was "legal" at the time. The debate is about whether it was justified or not.
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>>35828983
>by attacking a purely military target

Such as?

Keep in mind, after the bombing at Hiroshima, the Japanese military produced a report saying that the bombing had been a conventional firebombing, and that an atom bomb was technically infeasible.

They literally wouldn't have believed in an American nuclear program if it weren't for two object lessons in the heart of the country.

>My point is that it's still not justified to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people just because of the actions of their country's military

No, it's justified to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to save the lives of millions of innocent people, which is the central point of my argument.
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>>35829011
>You see how stupid that sounds?

Honestly, it sounds pretty fucking smart compared with

>why didn't the US just let millions of people die for no reason
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If a dindu busts into my home and shoots my wife in the leg with a 22lr would you expect me to not react with the most lethal thing I have even if that's a 3.5 inch slug from a shotty? Maybe an over simplification but it makes sense.
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>>35828152
They didn't just deserve it, it wasn't just justified, the fuckers earned it after everything they did. Unfortunately they picked two really culturally important cities instead of dropping them on one of those Ryukyu rocks packed tight with suicidal soldiers. You could argue that they would have hid that from the public as well but melting an entire island down to the basalt would have sent a good first message and saved a lot of marines.
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>>35829013
>Such as?
I honestly don't know because I don't have a map of all the Japanese holdings and active bases at the time of surrender right in front of me.
>it's justified to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people to save the lives of millions of innocent people
My point is that this is a silly justification that doesn't hold up to any critical thinking. It's like when people honestly believe that the Civil War happened because of slavery, or that the Iraq War was about WMDs.
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>>35829056
>My point is that this is a silly justification that doesn't hold up to any critical thinking

Why? Because you personally would have surrendered if you were a Japanese general? Guess what, they weren't you.

We have ample evidence that the people in charge refused to surrender under any circumstances.

For one thing, the fact that it required two nuclear bombings before they even acknowledged the American nuclear program.

For another, the fact that even AFTER Nagasaki there was an attempted coup to prevent a surrender. This is how ingrained the anti-surrender mindset was.

You sound like a retarded normie who predicts peoples behavior based on what you would have done, rather than on people's past actions.
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>>35829056
>It's like when people honestly believe that the Civil War happened because of slavery

oh, he's one of those retards
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>>35828888
The US land forces in the Pacific weren't relatively small. By 1945 the US Army had nearly 2 million soldiers deployed in the South Pacific alongside 500,000 Marines. This would have been bolstered by another 5 million troops from Europe and the States.

This isn't as large as the Soviet military at the time, but the US would have had the benefit of a far larger Navy, which would be extremely important when attacking an island, and a significantly larger air component. All in all this made the US military a much more potent threat to the home islands than the Soviets. For all their manpower, they simply didn't have the Navy or the experience with amphibious warfare to be able to mount a significant invasion of Japan in 1945.
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>>35829013

They actually knew it was a nuke, They sent people out there that they actually confirmed it. The real issue was that they overestimated how my material was needed to make a bomb. They never got a chance to work on their own so they never got a chance to correct anything. They figured, incorrectly, the first nuke would be the only one to hit the island for a very long time.

I recommend this book. it really opened my eyes on many things for the later part of the war.
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>>35829086
>We have ample evidence that the people in charge refused to surrender under any circumstances.
Which is why they surrendered in the end after the bombs were dropped.
>For one thing, the fact that it required two nuclear bombings before they even acknowledged the American nuclear program.
Maybe because the Internet and modern communications didn't exist at the time.
>For another, the fact that even AFTER Nagasaki there was an attempted coup to prevent a surrender. This is how ingrained the anti-surrender mindset was.
In the military. I have never denied that the Japanese military at the time was fanatical and out of control. All I'm saying is that dropping two atomic bombs on civilian cities was not a justified act simply because of the atrocities committed by their country's military. None of the terror bombing that happened in Japan or Europe before the atomic bombings were justified either. As >>35829050 said, the bombs could have been dropped on one of the small islands occupied by the Japanese military (which was mostly made of conscripts) rather than two cities. If using nukes isn't acceptable today, why was it acceptable then?
>>35829095
>implying Lincoln or most people in the North at the time gave two shits about the dindus
The war was fought for economic reasons just like every war in history. The only problem is that no one is willing to go die so some industrialist can make higher profits, so some feel-good justification has to be given to the great mass of simpletons such as yourself.
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>>35829178
>I have never denied that the Japanese military at the time was fanatical and out of control

The military controlled the government.

There could not, both for constitutional reasons and because of the real balance of power, have ever been a peace without the assent of the military.

>the bombs could have been dropped on one of the small islands occupied by the Japanese military (which was mostly made of conscripts) rather than two cities

I want you to answer these questions.

If two nukes on Japanese population centers, where the military could easily verify what happened, is just barely enough, why would one nuclear weapon on a remote area do this?

Where? The US had already taken Okinawa, at horrific cost.

And why should Truman use an option that is demonstrably less reliable, when the cost of failure is millions of deaths? Keep in mind that every month the war went on, hundreds of thousands of people were dying across Asia, and the prospect of a full on North Korea style famine in the home islands was getting closer.

>so some feel-good justification has to be given to the great mass of simpletons such as yourself.

Oh boy, it's the "I'm smarter than everybody because I read some infographs on /pol/" crowd
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>>35829116

True but 3/4 of Japan’s Army was stationed in mainland Asia, and was now under threat of being wiped out by the far larger, better equipped and experienced Soviets. Not to mention the fact that key members of the Japanese government proposed a meeting of the supreme council to discuss the Hiroshima bombing, but it was rejected because the matter was deemed too unimportant. Hiroshima wasn’t the first city to be bombed into ashes by the Americans, the Japs didn’t care if their city was destroyed by a million small bombs or one big one. However 3/4 of the IJA being wiped off the map (meaning they can no longer defend the Home Islands) is a much bigger deal. Their only hope at that point would have been bleeding the allies into compromise if they invaded the Japanese mainland, and they had no hope of doing that without an army.
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>>35829265
Bruh, in 1945 the Japanese couldn't physically have gotten their forces in Asia to Japan.

All of the ships that would have done that were busy in their new jobs as artificial reefs.
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>>35829178

On some level the terror bombing were justified, in Japan atleast, from a military perspective. Before the firebombing began, they tried bombing the home islands the same way they did Europe. It didn't work, the weather patterns fucked up bombing runs so much that the loss ratio to targeted destruction was not sustainable. Some bombing missions to loses without any confirmed loss of production. The other issue is that manufacturing didn't just stay in the factories, they were in people's homes.

This is what world war at the time looked like. The speed of war and the size of the overall thing with the available technology made manufacturing a worthwhile target. Hitting ammo depots and supply yards only did so much if you left factories alone.
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>>35828211
North Japan is best Japan.
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>>35829290

That and any remaining ships that existed would have been used as a final fuck you to the invasion fleet that the Japanese did a very good job of predicting.
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>>35828152
Yes. We killed many more in strategic and fire bombings in both western europe and japan for much less reason. Hell, There were individual cities/campaigns where our firebombs killed more due to poor city planning.

If only we'd been able to cow them sooner. Such a cataclysmic event truly changed the mettle of the empire of japan over a course of weeks. The military may have been willing to continue but the populace at large was simply unwilling to accept the concept of their cities being turned to ash one after another at almost no risk to the enemy. It was the cinematic nail in the coffin that they needed in order to justify giving up without a protracted and truly horrific battle to the last man.
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>>35829312
>Some bombing missions to loses without any confirmed loss of production

This is why the US switched to saturation bombing in both theaters.

In order to hit a target accurately, you have to be flying straight, in clear weather, during the daytime.

In order to survive AA fire, you want to attack at night, under cloud cover if possible, and not be where the enemy is shooting.

The US was losing so many bomber crews doing the precision daylight raids that the bomber force would have become non-functional due to losses if they hadn't changed the doctrine.
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>>35829241

>and the prospect of a full on North Korea style famine in the home islands was getting closer.

This is an important one as well. If the nukes were not used then next major targets to be hit was any remaining railroad infrastructure that existed. Japan's road network was not good at the time and any gas or trucks that could have been used for transport worth a damn was slated for the incoming invasion. The other option for food transport was ships, but local traffic was being sunk by mines and subs. Some projected losses from the famine following would have been worse than the nukes themselves.
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>>35829178
I thought that the indiscriminate nature of bombings/firebombings in japan was largely justified by the combination of their highly fire prone cities, necessity, and the fact that japanese manufacturing was often times of an extremely distributed nature. that is to say that instead of singular tsrgetable factories separated from population centers as was seen in most european nations they tended to favor multiple somewhat disparate shops that would only combine parts at a singular end location at the end of production. This made broad firebombing a more palatable idea tactically speaking.

Ofc this is just what i recall from watching documentaries way back when.
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>>35829343

Hell, they fired the guy before LeMay since he didn't want to switch to firebombing.
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>>35829290

The timing doesn’t make any sense though. They surrendered the day after the Nagasaki bombing, which was less destructive than Hiroshima, and the decision to surrender was made shortly after the bomb dropped on the same day. In addition the army’s report on the damage caused by the Hiroshima bombing didn’t reach the government until after they surrendered. On top of all that there was nothing particularly scary to the Japs about this bomb. A nuke reducing a city to a smoking crater isn’t any different than a fuckton of incendiary bombs doing the same thing.

The Soviet declaration of war also meant that one of the Japanese plans for avoiding unconditional surrender was no longer viable. They wanted to try to get the Soviets to broker a peace between the western allies and Japanese, the reasoning being that the Soviets would jump on a chance to limit an expansion of American influence.

The bombings didn’t really change the strategic situation, America had the power to destroy Japanese cities before, it was just a somewhat faster process now. But with the Soviet invasion any hope of mounting a conventional defense of the Home Islands was gone, as was any possible diplomatic solution.
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>>35828211
Thank you, comrade stone!

May Karl and Vladimir smile upon you from the socialist utopia in the sky!
>>
If you think almost anything America did in the Pacific during WW2 was justified you're just ignorant. Countless lives could've been saved had we just supported other allies in Asia, kept a tight air defense over the coast and Hawaii, and waited for them to collapse. Revenge is not worth killing your own men.
>but muh Nanking
If we'd let things play out China would've dealt back 1000 Nankings.
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>>35829479
>America attacks using firebombs and a ground invasion
>get to die in a glorious battle and (in the delusional minds of nip generals) possibly get a better settlement by exhausting American morale
>America attacks with nuclear warheads
>every Japanese city dies like an ant in a magnifying glass, no way to fight back, no cost to the Americans, no hope of anything other than annihilation

That and it was a face-saving war for them to back out of the war.
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>>35828311
fuck off and die eurotrash
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>>35828737
Are you a muslim or something? Why the fuck do you care that we've been slaughtering ragheads the past 20 or so years
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>>35828771
>they were pretty much ready to surrender
stop this meme, no they were not
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>>35829530

Except America’s nuclear capacity was nowhere near strong enough to glass the whole country (they were only able to produce like one bomb a month, and the japs probably knew that), in fact if they wanted to turn the whole country into a parking lot they probably could have done it faster with conventional bombing. The Japanese knew that even with the nukes an invasion would have been imminent eventually, so if all they cared about was dying gloriously they could have just waited till November. Plus they didn’t even really know what they were dealing with in Hiroshima until after they already surrendered, so clearly the bomb didn’t scare them into submission.
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>>35828983
>by attacking a purely military target.
name one
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>>35829628
>and the japs probably knew that

They didn't.

A pilot got shot down after Hiroshima and they tortured him for information.

He didn't know anything about the program, but he ended up telling them that production was up to fifty bombs a month.

At any rate, three bombs a month with absolutely no way to retaliate isn't a recipe for victory.
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>>35828481

Japan attempted, actually. They sent crude incendiary balloon bombs to indescriminately cause damage in the continental US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon
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>>35829493
>Countless lives could've been saved had we just supported other allies in Asia
such as?
The only Asian countries not entirely rolled over were China and India, everything else was conquered.
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>>35828561

Fuck you, dog-eater.
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>>35829659

Even if they were producing that many, the Japanese were already well aware of America’s capacity to wipe out their cities. Tokyo had been burnt to a crisp long before Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The bomb didn’t change anything on a strategic level.
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>>35829673
>The bomb didn’t change anything on a strategic level

There were only about five full-on firestorms throughout the entire war. It's not that easy to do, because most of the fuel has to come from the city you're burning down.

Having the ability to do as much physical damage as a thousand bomber raid and firestorm, instantly, anywhere, at no cost to yourself, that changes the strategic calculus immensely.
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>>35829690

>Having the ability to do as much physical damage as a thousand bomber raid and firestorm, instantly, anywhere, at no cost to yourself,

They didn’t have that ability though.
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>>35828152
YES YES HELL YES
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>>35829701
Well, the strategic bombing survey estimated that the Hiroshima bomb did about as much damage as a traditional thousand bomber raid + firestorm.

That's a lot of damage.

Three of those a month is a dramatic increase in the destruction of Japanese defenses.

Fifty of those a month is enough to denipponate the entire country, essentially for free.
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>>35829673
>The bomb didn’t change anything on a strategic level.

It certainly did with Stalin and simultaneously wrapped up the emperors God complex..
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>>35828705
Because the Emporer, the closest thing the Japanese had to God incarnate at the time, literally came down from his golden palace and said "stop fighting, they literally have canned sun, we can't win this".
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>>35829493
>If you kill your enemies, they win.
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>>35828783
>>35828839
>hurr durr I'm retarded
No, it was to force the Japanese into unconditional surrender before the soviets got their slimy mitts on too much of Japanese territory.
>>
>>35829724

>Well, the strategic bombing survey estimated that the Hiroshima bomb did about as much damage as a traditional thousand bomber raid + firestorm.

You mean the survey that didn’t reach the Japanese government until after they surrendered?
>>
>>35829747
This isn't rocket surgery.

>entire city disappears overnight
>it happens a second time
>military intelligence says that will start to happen on a daily basis if the gaijin lose their patience
>conclude that it is difficult to fight a war if there aren't any people left in your country
>>
>>35829725

I think that had more to do with the Soviets actually having something to lose in 1945. Also the fact that they weren’t particularly interested in expansion past where they already were, they just wanted a buffer between them and the west, a policy Russia pursues to this day.
>>
>>35829766

How could the Japanese government known that an entire city had disappeared? Do you think that governments base their policies on rumours before they have a chance to look at official reports?

>it happens a second time

It happened literally while the cabinet was already meeting to discuss surrender. If they knew about the bombing of Nagasaki at all they wouldn’t have known the scale of it.
>>
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>>35828780
/k/horne asks for no rituals, no sermons, He asks you not to build temples in His name.
Only kill. Kill, and keep killing. But do not bring Him the skulls of the weak as trophys, lest your own be replacement. Their blood and skulls can be fodder for the lesser daemons in His Army.
If there are no enemies to slay, slay each other.
For only Blood pleases the Blood God, and He cares not where it flows.
>>
>>35829783
>Do you think that governments base their policies on rumours before they have a chance to look at official reports?

No, I think that militaries have a military intelligence command which investigates matters of interest to the military and then reports the results to key policy makers.

A city disappearing overnight is a matter of interest to policy makers. I fully believe that the Japanese military intelligence would have briefed the cabinet on the bombing at Hiroshima at some point before the decision was made to surrender.

This belief is corroborated by the reports of members of the "peace faction" in the Japanese cabinet stating that the atomic bombings were what allowed them to convince the military to cooperate with a peace deal.
>>
>>35829834

>No, I think that militaries have a military intelligence command which investigates matters of interest to the military and then reports the results to key policy makers.

Exactly, and that report reached the Japanese government after they had already surrendered.
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>>35829670
China is the most obvious one.
>everything else was conquered
Objectively false.

>>35829734
Over three million Americans died in a war that never needed to happen. The Japs were not a substantial threat to America, and they never would've been.
>>
>>35829863
The report on Hiroshima?

If that's what you're claiming, that's a straight-up lie.
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>>35829868
>The Japs were not a substantial threat to America, and they never would've been.
Do they literally need to come into your home and fuck your wife to be a substantial threat?
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>>35828152
Not one second thought about it.
>>
Yes, and it was in best interest. If we had instead launched a land invasion, we would have likely ended up with 2 Japans post war, half Soviet and half American, like in Germany. The Americans controlling ALL of postwar Japan is why Japan rose to one of the most technologically advanced countries in the 21st century. Would you prefer to live in North Korea or Japan, because that is the real question.
>>
>>35828395
Don't forget that the nips already had used WMDs in China such as gas on civilian urban centers. The USA was going to use this precedent to drop gas on all jap cities if an invasion occurred. So even if no nukes you would still have WMDs being used over Japan, and it is entirely their fault at that.

>>35828481
Even if what you said were actually true, the US was not fighting the war alone but rather as an alliance. Our allies DID have non-military targets attacked by the japs, so we were justified in using our military strength to defend them.
>>
>>35829868
>three million
Wut.
>>
>>35828211
That revisionist history has only been around since the 90s, it’s amazing how much traction it’s gotten.
>>
>>35829913
>Soviet Union doing an amphibious assault
You can't drown the ocean in bodies anon.
>>
>>35829940
not with that attitude you cant
>>
>>35829940
Right, because they werent trying to...
>Manchuria was going to be their launch point.

You realize the only reason the Soviets rushed their invasion of Manchuria was to get their hand in the pot in the hopes that they would be able to push into Japan before the official surrender, right?
>>
>>35829479
>They surrendered the day after the Nagasaki bombing, which was less destructive than Hiroshima, and the decision to surrender was made shortly after the bomb dropped on the same day.

You do realize you are countering your own argument with this right?
>>
>>35828311
Oh, there’s plenty of criticism. Gobs of it. Yes, civilians died by nuke. Sucks to be them. The thing, though, the whole thing about this that really frosts the libs and lefties is the fact that the atomic bombings weren’t a war crime. Completely legal under the laws of war in effect at the time.

Is that what’s got your knickers in a twist? We killed a bunch of civilians and got off scot free. Get over it.
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>>35829770
>Also the fact that they weren’t particularly interested in expansion past where they already were

HOLY FUCKING SHIT MY SIDES

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHA

Five rubles have been deposited into your world of tanks account, vatnik.

>>35829863
>No! The Japanese are lying about their own history! Listen to my revisionist vatnik conspiracy theories instead!

You can end anytime now Boris.
>>
>>35829727
My favorite post in this thread.
>>
>>35828890
Yes. They fucked with my family at Pearl, I say we fuck with them in the middle of Tokyo. Fuck you Japan, finish putting out AC7 and Jojo part 5 or suck my thermonuclear nuts and snort the stench out of my sweaty supercritical scrote.
>>
>>35828549
>would it be justifiable for a super power country to nuke usa in order to stp usa from doing all the war it does?

There’s only one superpower on the planet right now, anon. We’re not going to nuke ourselves, although it’s not an impossible scenario. Think ACW v2.0.

But to answer your intended question, yes, justifications can always be found. The country would have to consider that the inevitable nuclear retaliation would be easier to survive than whatever situation they were facing before launching their nukes.
>>
>>35828705
>why were there virtually no guerrilla reprisal attacks on Americans during the post-war occupation?

Because the Emperor said there wouldn’t be, fuckwit. He was a living god to those people at that time, his word was literally law. Thousands of young men climbed into bomb-laden aircraft, intending to make a one-way trip in the name of the emperor. You fucking water-headed post-millenial twat, read a fucking book.
>>
>>35828737
Deserve? No. But is it likely to happen someday? Don’t rule it out. You’re also comparing apples to oranges- legitimate acts of war vs. undeclared counter insurgency/counter terrorism ops.
>>
>>35829886
A fraction of the men and money thrown at the war would've been adequate to completely defend America.

>>35829929
I may have completely mixed up numbers there, sorry.
>>
>>35828843
>People who defend using the nukes make the absurd claim that Japan would have sent their kindergartners and grandmas to the front lines before surrendering.

That claim can be verified by browsing through the Japanese documents and war plans we took into custody after the surrender. They’re in the National Archives. Or, you can just continue playing make believe. Your choice.

>And yet he magically became not-god after the surrender?

By his own word, yes. Again, check the National Archives. He wrote the decree himself.
>>
>>35828860
You’re trying to impose your very subjective morality onto international law and custom. That’s a failure on your part. You’re not the global moral arbiter of right and wrong.
>>
>>35828954
this all the way, and since we kept the soviets from getting their grubby mitts all over Japan we actually helped the Japanese people have a post war economic boom and be lifted to a level of prosperity arguably today better than that of the average American. Arguably nuking them and quickly ending the war helped them more than any other plan.
>>
>>35828983
>My point is that it's still not justified to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people

Murder is, by definition, illegal. The bombings were legal. Thus, no murder happened. Your logic is flawed
>>
>>35829011
>justified

Legality is codified justification. Quit arguing from your emotions and start using logic.
>>
If the nukes didn't work we expected to take hundreds of thousands of casualties with a large chunk of that dead or missing. They made so many purple hearts they were still giving them away in Iraq last decade. Even more would have been civilian casualties. There would have been mass murder-suicides in the name of honor. Japan would have ceased to exist.

You tell me, was it worth it?
>>
>>35829940
looking at the history of the Russian military trying to do anything that even involves water in Japan you could predict that things would not go well.
>>
>>35828954
I mean we see these "WUZZIT JUSTAFIED??" threads every other week and this pic should be mandatory first post.
>>
>>35828888
>The Soviets would have had a much easier time swamping the Japs with literally millions of battle hardened troops from Europe than the Americans would with their relatively small land force in the pacific.
That's blatant and complete bullshit. The Soviets had next to no amphibious capabilities in the Pacific. All their millions of men would do them no good if they couldn't put them on Japan. The colonies were as good as gone by that point, Japan was realistically down to just Japan. Russia only BARELY managed to take one of the Sakhalin islands, and that force was almost wiped out on the beach.
>>
>>35829900
Except he absolutely did and was racked by guilt. He stated that given the option to bomb a third city, he would not do it. He could not bear to kill so many children. Moreover, he refused to see Oppenheimer after the bombing because he served as a reminder of the guilt.
>>
>>35830330
There's a distinct difference between plans and actions, you absolute shit-for-brains dumbass.

>children in war
>ever being an effective strategy
>>
Yes
Okinawa was so fucking bad for the US and an entire village committed suicide instead of taking chances with the US military
It was clear that the US had to show Japan that they'd either get nuked or surrender
>>
Every faggot saying that the nukes weren't justified should be reminded that the US made so many purple hearts in preparation for the invasion of the mainland that the same medals are still used to this day.
Think about it, almost a century's worth of supply of medals just for a single invasion.
>>
>>35831113
>difference between plans and actions,

And now you’re moving the goalposts, you asshurt revisionist.
>>
>>35828152
yes
>>
>>35828585
That didnt happen in the okinawa islands the usa captured why wpuld you think it would hapoen in mainland japland

So would it be justifiable to nuke every inch of usa cos you know gun behind every blade of grass
>>
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>>35828152
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UpMwVfwoDA
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>>35832758
>That didnt happen in the okinawa islands the usa captured
But it did. The vast majority of Okinawans died during the battle. Over 90%
>>
>>35828152
Hell yeah.
>>
If it weren’t for those damn yanks we could have gotten 5 more years out of the war
>>
>>35832758
>So would it be justifiable to nuke every inch of usa cos you know gun behind every blade of grass

This argument makes no sense. What is the context? If you’re just throwing it out there as bait, you need to work on the quality of your bait. Yes, /k/ is the most easily baited board. We do, however, have standards. Your middle school logic comes really close to being unacceptable. I’ve seen better arguments from Chinkposters using buggy translation software.

Git gud.
>>
>>35828152
Maybe.

Purely military targets might have been better. But I'm not certain if any existed. Japanese public sentiment had little to do with ending the war. Killing a bunch of civilians wouldn't have mattered to the emperor or military leadership. We successfully demonstrated that we could sit back and burn the mainland to a cinder while taking minimal casualties.
>>
>>35829589
lol I’m a Merifat, but thanks for proving my point about how no one is allowed to question anything the WWII generation did without people jumping down your throat about how you’re insulting dear old grandpa.
>>35829617
I don’t give a shit about Muslims, but can you not see how another country might take issue with the US’s foreign policy of endless war?
>>35830007
>implying the victors ever get tried for war crimes
>>35830231
>hurr Japanese people were mindless zombies ready to allah ackbar themselves despite having one of the highest IQs and standards of living today
>>
A lot of WhiteBois would have died in a land invasion; a million casualties were expected: This is why the Left attacks the usage of The Bomb
>>
Well bomber Harris was about to get involved and use the RAFs gas stocks, so it saved us from the abuse that would have followed gassing millions from the air.
>>
>>35834355
>hurr Japanese people were ready to allah ackbar themselves
Yes. Yes they were. Glad you agree.
>>
it's war i don't gotta explain shit
unless we lose in which case we're fucked
>>
>>35834355
You can question it, but your questions are dumb. Bombing civilians during total war was the norm way back when, and is still the norm considering MAD still plays a minor role in stategic thinking.
>>
>>35828152

Justification is irrelevant. The power was there, and it was wielded.
>>
>>35828561
>I've only killed Americans

I never knew North Koreans were all secretly American.
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>>35829617
>Are you a muslim or something?
America would be the first to defend him if he was.
>>
>>35834796
No, they weren't. Kamikaze pilots weren't the norm, and they did not just mindlessly sign their lives away to do it without being severely pressured. You can look up letters that kamikaze pilots wrote to their families talking about how scared and regretful they were, but they knew there was no turning back.
>>35834949
Ok but slavery was also the norm at one point. Does that mean we can't condemn it today? Why was it ok to bomb civilians during WWII and preceding wars if it's considered inhumane today? I'm not saying I don't understand why it happened. I'm saying it was an indefensible act. Both sides committed atrocities during the war.
>>35835427
It's funny how Americans who normally hate the Democrats will defend to the death the actions taken during Democrats' wars.
>>
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>>35828152
Yes

Arguments for:
- averted costly land invasion without a single allied soldier lost
- averted disastrous famine during said invasion
- war shortened by at least one year
- averted japan being divided into north and south, like korea and germany
- (just) dragged the japanese back to the negotiating table
- broke japanese morale
- useful deterrent to the soviets

Arguments against:
- muh innocent japanese civilians (ignoring pic related)
- ACKSHUALLY IT WAS THE RUSSKIES THAT MAED THEM SURRENDER (even if this were true, then clearly the japanese werent too bothered by the nukes anyway - in that case, why bother crying about them?)
>>
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>>35828152
Considering we where alrady busy FIRE BOMBING THE EVERLOVING SHIT outta Japan, well...yes
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>>35835876
>not wanting a pro-gun waifu
And today Japan is nogunz thanks to the (((Americans))) who wrote their new constitution.
>>
>>35828481
>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Mitchell_Monument%3B_August_12%2C_2013.jpg

Kys.And i actually mean that.
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>>35828481
Fuck ‘em.
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>>35839055
>it's ok to nuke two Japanese cities because muh balloon bombs and Pearl Harbor
>but we have to treat Muslims with kid gloves after 9/11 and the other Islamic terror attacks that happen every two weeks or so around the world
If nukes aren't justified today, they weren't justified 70 years ago. And if it was ok to indiscriminately exterminate Japanese kids and grannies back then, I want to start exterminating Muslims right now.
>>
Yep. And if they had waited a couple of more days to surrender, we had a third one in the pipe.

A shame, though, the Japanese have since conducted themselves as bro allies. Hirohito and ingrained culture fucked them into choosing the losing side. I'm rather amazed at how quickly they adapted to the Marshall plan and embracing 20th century Western ideals.
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>>35828395
WHY THE FUCK DID WE HELP THE FUCKING JAPS RIGHT FUCKING AFTER RAPING THEM HARD!? WHY COULDN'T WE JUST LEFT THEM TO ROT AND DIE AND TURN THEIR NATION INTO PART OF OUR FUCKING STATE TO SHOW A FUCKING EXAMPLE OF WHAT HAPPENS TO ANY NATIONS THAT TRIES TO FUCK WITH AMERICA! WHY DID WE HELP THE FUCKING YELLOW BASTARDS GODDAMNIT I WISHED THE RUSSIANS HAD INVADED AND KILLED THEM ALL INSTEAD IF I KNEW WE WOULD BE SUCH FUCKING CÜCKS ABOUT HELPING JAPS AFTER EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING DID TO US GOD FUCKING DAMN!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>35828152
Yeah, they started it, we finished it.

We beat their ass's sure, but why does nobody ever look to what happened after the bombing? The US came in and helped improve the quality of life of the average Japanese citizen. People could finally eat a normal meal in Japan after the US won wartime rations weren't a thing with aid coming in. Those nukes saved many, many Japanese lives
>>
>>35835535
>Why was it ok to bomb civilians during WWII and preceding wars if it's considered inhumane today? I'm not saying I don't understand why it happened. I'm saying it was an indefensible act.
I can’t tell if you’re being retarded on purpose or not, but think about what you’re saying. Do you actually think it makes sense to judge historical events by today’s standards? Saying bombing civilians in WWII was wrong because we don’t do it today is like arguing that Japan should have just gone to the WTO with a fair trade complaint instead of attacking the US. We are able to look at bombing civilians as unacceptably inhumane today because the US’s superpower status means countries don’t bother devoting their entire economies to their war efforts, meaning there actually are large populations that contribute nothing to the war effort and are therefore ‘innocent’, and precision weapons and modern surveillance and communications technology allow targeted strikes against specifically military targets, meaning obliterating urban areas wholesale is actually pointless. These circumstances didn’t exist in the 1940s.

>slavery was also the norm at one point. Does that mean we can't condemn it today?
What is this even supposed to mean? That we condem it today doesn’t mean it was unjustified at the time. The British certainly were opposed to slavery in the early 1800s, but that didn’t stop them from snapping up American cotton, did it?
>>
>>35840232
We should have just let them starve and be in poverty for six months before going in and removing whatever government they even have left and forced their nation to becoming part of our country by turning their country into a state and forcing Americanism culture hard into their throats and shove english language and text into their brains and force their kids to pledge their allegiances to the United States of fucking AMERICA!

But nah we had to go in and help them and let them run their country like nothing happen because they dindu nuffin.
>>
bump
>>
>>35828211
Yeah, but then we would have Sad Commie Japan instead of Cool Anime-Wonderland Japan.
>>
>>35829148
They were not far off. We had three we could let off the chain, and more would not be coming for several weeks.
>>
>>35828152
No.
The bombs were dropped to keep the soviets out of Japan.
>b-but there would've been more casualties if we didn't drop the bomb!
We went to war with them. We should've finished the job without indiscriminately waisting hundreds of thousands of civilians. It was shitty and you have the dirty jew (((Einstein))) to thank for the atomic era.
>>
>>35840444
>Yeah, but then we would have Sad Commie Japan instead of Cool Anime-Wonderland Japan.

More like completely apeshit crazy commie japan. Sending random brainwashed jap businessmen to attack an israeli airport with vz58s and grenades to support palestine.

Not to mention random ass leftist cults building anthrax and reassembling a chopper to launch massive gas attacks along with guns, both smuggled from their Russian affiliates.
>>
>>35840895
>Sending random brainwashed jap businessmen to attack an israeli airport with vz58s and grenades to support palestine.
Sounds good to me
>>
>>35828152
Caring about what type of bombs you use in a total war scenario. Also, didn't more japs die in the firebombings of tokyo?
>>
>>35840895
sounds good but they'd eventually revolt and probably be back to being WW2 japs but with better tech and no anime.

>sounds good.
>>
>>35840878
>The bombs were dropped to keep the soviets out of Japan.
Soviets couldn't have made it to Japan. They didn't have the amphibious capability to do so. The one island they amphibiously invaded in the Kurils very nearly was wiped out on the beaches, and convinced them that there was no way in hell they could invade mainland Japan. Not to mention a lack of amphibious shipping.
>>
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>>35828211

How would have the Soviets invaded, comrade? The US Pacific fleet was the largest concentration of naval power in history and was projecting an apocalyptic struggle to even establish a beachhead.
>>
>>35829011
>Hurr what r numbers

Number of people killed by the bombs = x

Number of people who would have died due to famines and or full invasion = y

X < Y

Go fuck your self
>>
I not argueing either way. But, did the US know at the time that the Soviets couldn't have made it to Japan?
>>
>>35840878
Fun fact: (((Einstein))) convinced Roosevelt to fund development of the atom bombs because he hated Germans. They were originally going to be used on Germany, but they surrendered before the bombs were ready. So, the claim that the bombs were intended to be used on Japan the whole time because of some unprecedented level of fanaticism in the Japanese people doesn’t hold much water.
>(((Einstein))) tells FDR to fund the Manhattan Project because muh Nazis
>(((Oppenheimer))) develops the bombs
>Germany surrenders before the bombs are ready, FDR dies
>Truman is like, “Welp, might as well use these on the Nips lol”
>kill hundreds of thousands of innocents in a few seconds
>two kikes mentioned above are like “oy vey war is terrible nukes are bad” even though they made them
>>35841195
>muh conjecture
>>
>>35841461
Whatever you say jap but just remember how your nation got cucked hard by a single fucking literal JEW.
>>
>>35841461
>>muh conjecture

nah, the army estimated something like two million casualties from a land invasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
>>
>>35841461
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualties
>>
>>35841496
USA got cucked by the Jews long before that.
>>
>>35828481
>Would the UK have been justified in dropping a nuke on Buenos Aires during the Falklands War?

Maggie was certainly considering it. I reckon had the argies somehow managed to take down a carrier then there would have been a very bright light in Argentina.

Anyway, even if they didn't hurt the USA mainland that much, when your friend gets jumped by two big guys in a bar do you do nothing? They never hit you but they're beating the shit out of your buddy with dirty tactics and cockshots.

So you get stuck in.

>>35829056
Most of the time military targets are mixed with and supported by civilian targets. Look at the manufacturing during WW2 in Britain. It's on major cities. Sure docks and airfields aren't usually super close to houses but docks specifically have lots of civilian support. That support is part of the war effort, that and during total war a civilian is part of the war effort. It's not AOE where all your farms and houses are one side of your land and your barracks and stables the other. It's mostly intertwined.
You aren't complaining about the firebombing of Tokyo. Just because big scary nukes were used it doesn't make it worse. I would rather my country hit by a 15-20kt nuke than invaded and torn to shreds by firebombing and getting Dresden'd.
I don't like that it happened. However it was a beneficial move in the long run.
>>
>>35829673
>a nuclear weapon that can vaporize a city in the blink of a fucking eye, didn't change anything...

You are actually retarded.
>>
>>35840150
>some bombing on a US island in the Pacific Ocean is worse than a massacre of unarmed citzens in China
>>
>>35843535
China is communist so it's okay but bombing american civilians in pearl harbor because the japs hates americans and was all because they were "MUH HONOR REEEEEEEEEEE!!!" is not right and in every way it is completely fucked uo so fuck japan I am glad their population is dwindling down and hope the borders opens so they can get the same treatment that europe is getting right now and hopefully then japan will collapse.

Fuck your honor that shit is a pathetic way of admitting your a beta faggot.
>>
>>35831113
It's not goalpost moving if it's a legitimate retort to your stupid point.
>>
>>35834426
No, only 40k losses were expected. Read the actual historical documents.
>>
>>35843663
The massacres were in areas under kuomingtang control, a majority of the fighting against the japanese were done by kuomingtang army
>>
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just humor me this /k/, what if the United States have actually instead of two they dropped six nuclear bombs on major cities and forebombed tokyo twice then dropped regular bombs on schools and hospitals, deploy biological chemical attacks on japan, deploy naval blockade all around japan to prevent any aid coming in to the nation, launch all of the available military men into japan and take over the entire nation with force, drag the emperor out of the palace, force the now surrendered by force Japanese soldiers to destroy the palace, execute the emperor infront of the oppressed japanese civilians, replace their government system with our guys, force them to speak and read our language and force Americanism into their culture and finally keep the nation under blockade for two months before coming in to aid the nation and restore it but under american control and turn it into a vessel state or full on state of the United States so that we can add another star to our flag oh and force them to make sushi burgers,

Now just humor me on this but what would the outside world reaction would be to see the United States go full on no breaks on the train REEE on japan like that and what would today's world be if it was done like that?
>>
>>35845272
It would be the most metal thing I have ever read on a history book and as for your questions the nations all over the world would be shocked and horrified by this but will not try to do anything about it because they would be terrified to attack the United States because they can look at japan as an example as to what happens to any country that attacks the united states and also america would be bigger than before.
>>
Bump
>>
Bump
>>
>>35834355
>hurr Japanese people were mindless zombies ready to allah ackbar themselves despite having one of the highest IQs and standards of living today

What in the flying fuck do their IQ and living standards today have to do with a war they lost 60 years ago?
>>
Don’t forget to Slap a Jap
>>
>>35834355
>>hurr Japanese people were mindless zombies ready to allah ackbar themselves despite having one of the highest IQs and standards of living today
70 years ago islands were mass suiciding because they bought into the propaganda about the Americans so heavily that they thought offing themselves was preferable to occupation. Stop trying to apply modern context to events that transpired 3/4 of a century ago
>>
>>35846519
But that doesn't count because not everyone did it and they were probably scared so it's not REALLY ackbaring even if it is mass suicides
>>
Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdM3_kzhscM
>>
>>35828152
>scientific research on radiation affectind living humans
>soviet nuclear program taking fast temps
>huge incomes from tourists
>the towns are renovated
Well, to think of it, it had a good impact.
>>
>>35840150
Because if you rebuild you own their country and if you occupy it then its basically impossible to get you to leave.

Also to keep the commies out.
>>
>>35843663
China is only communist because Murrica and UK cucked to the Soviets after the war. Mao Zedong was losing the Civil War before the Japanese invaded.
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>>35845272
>destroy a 2,000 year old civilization because muh military industrial complex and muh trade markets
I mean sure, why not?
>>
>>35846853
>muh 6 million Chineses
I'm actually a big Chinkaboo, but that stuff is probably about as real as Schindler's List. Even Mao Zedong said that what Japan did to China during the war was ok because it allowed the Communists to come to power in the end.
>>
>>35847236
Imagine the reaction and the example we would make to show to every nation what happens to any nations that tries to attack us and think they can get away.
>>
Yes, the reason that we nuked the Japanese was that the casualty estimates from Operation Olympia, which was the plan for an armed invasion of Japan, were around a million dead, The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were at most about 230,000 dead. By nuking the Japanese, we saved around 750,000 lives.
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>>35845272
>blood-eagleing an entire country for coming after great-gramps
Fuck to the hell yes.
>>
>>35828705
Because their literal god said "Fucking stop guys"
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>>35848201
You damn well know that in an alternate universe the United States literally did just that to Japan because of fucking pearl harbor.

Think about that for a minute and masturbate to it.
>>
It was justified. We don't want a Soviet Japan. That would fucking suck.
>>
>>35829002
"Peppuku"? Is my understanding of the language too weak or did you make a really weird typo
>>
>>35848281
Jesus Christ, Anon, stop, I just took a shower, I don't need to nut again today.
>mfw there's an alternate universe where great-grampa was involved in beating numerous gook civvies
>mfw butthurt yuropoors don't muttpost in this universe, they oppressionpost and annexpost
>>
>>35841174
Your underestimation of how much the Red Army was willing to sacrifice to spread communism to japan is only slightly lower than the underestimation of >>35828211 of how hilariously inept the Red Army was at amphibious operations.
>>
>>35848385
Except we should have just continued to blockade the Japanese until they surrendered from starvation and used the nukes on the Soviets.

You could argue that causing people to starve to death is no worse than dropping a nuke on them, but at least the cultural landmarks would have been preserved, and the surrender might have happened before so many people died. Also, we wouldn't have given 1/3 of the planet to the dirty commies.
>>
>>35848201
>>35848557
Wanna nut even harder? In the alternate universe the United States not only fucked Japan's shit up and did all that and made it into a state but the United States as well went and forced Germany the same way and turned it into a state as well and doubled down on the military fundings and used both German and Japanese technology in boosting both our own technology and weapons upgrades and the United States is now currently fucking Korea's shit up with now upgraded weapons and technology thanks to the now two brand new states that is now under the united states control and dominance.

I'll give you time to bust both your nuts to that one.
>>
>>35828152
Vae victis my dude
>>
>>35848920
Muh DIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!!!
>>
>>35844139

There were several different projections on expected losses during the invasion.

Nimitz projected a casualty number for the navy of 49,000

MacAurthur's had his numbers for day 1 to 120 at 124,000, this was for the army units and some AAC. A request for a 90 day operation, MacAurthur's office said to expect a battle loss of 105,000.

The staff officers briefing, via paper documents, Truman told him "The cost in casualties of the main operations against Japan are not subject to accurate estimate... the scale of Japanese resistance in the past has not been predictable."
>>
>>35848754

Interesting point. We indeed should have just nuked the Soviets to tie up that loose end.
>>
>>35849055
>MacAurthur's had his numbers for day 1 to 120 at 124,000
Which set? He and his office produced casualty figures at least twice.
>>
>>35828481
kek
>>
>>35831089
>He could not bear to kill so many children.
abloo bloo bloo muh children
>>
>>35831089
Are you telling me that this story is false

>Oppenheimer tells Truman "I can't live with myself any more, I feel as if I have blood on my hands"
>Truman hands Oppenheimer a handkerchief and tells him to wipe it off
>driving back, Truman tells an aide "I'm the one who dropped the bomb, never let me see that fucking cretin again"

Because that's a great story.
>>
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>be in Japan
>go outside
>be attacked by a pack of horny irradiated mutants
wat do?
>>
>>35850118
rolling
>>
>>35828481
You DO realize Hiroshima had a barracks of somewhere (I believe) close to 40k troops right? That makes it a justifiable military target. Stop smoking crack dude.
>>
>>35832247
This.
Something like 2 million purple hearts were made for downfall.
>>
>>35850118
Rolling
>>
>>35839997
>confusing today with nearly 70 years ago

Damn dude, autism runs in the family huh?
>>
>>35850866
>less that one lifetime means that much difference in the grand scheme of things
We're not talking about Genghis Khan here.
>>
>>35851227
It really does in this specific context.

WW2 is why there are now rules for proportionality in aerial bombing.

The laws and practices have changed a lot.
>>
Bump
>>
>>35850118
Rollin' for red
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>>35848920
A-and what about the towelheads?
>>
>>35847285
>Even Mao Zedong said
That alone should be a big hint that it wasn't okay.
>>
>>35850118

rollin
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>>35844200
Wasn't Yamamoto initially against the idea of attacking the US?
>>
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>>35853588
What towelheads?
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>>35828923
>not the superior version
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>>35828923
But the japs were always like that
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>>35829823
Dude this is the cringiest, most autistic faggotry i have read on 4chan in a long time
>>
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>>35839997
>nuking mecca isnt justified
Nuking mecca is very justified we should have done it on September 12th
>>
>>35841695
Im from buenos aires and i say we kill em all
>>
>>35829935
Maybe because 90's was about the time when old Soviet archives opened to Western scholars to study about what was going on in Soviet Union in WW2
>>
>>35841174
pretty funny i'm watching this exact episode right now. Scene was just on.
"What?! It's my fault she's a klutz!?"




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