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What is /k/'s opinion of the HK33/HK93? If this was your service rifle would you be happy with it?
>>
Speaking from use with a G3, so not a baby round, but same general design.
I love mine, but there's two things that suck about it.
1. The bolt doesn't lock open
2. The inside of the receiver sucks to clean
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>>38818996
Is it super heavy?
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>>38819010
Only if you’re a manlet
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>>38819010
It's heavier than some rifles, lighter than others. People have successfully carried them for half a century. Don't be a pussy.
>>
Way too fucking heavy for a 5.56 rifle. Cleaning roller delayed guns sucks too. The design also makes it difficult to clear an obstruction in the chamber if that ever happens.
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>>38819051
>People have successfully carried them for half a century
No they haven't. People quit carrying them a long time ago, only third world subhumans continued using them.


>Don't be a pussy.
Fuck that, I'd rather have a lighter, better rifle and an extra couple pounds of anything but rifle.
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>>38819090
Most euro nations who adopted the G3 still has it in some form or another.
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>>38818979
No, they are better rifles at the market right now.
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>>38819010
If girls can shoot a mag through mine offhand, barring some kind of medical necessity you should be fine. The extra weight tames .308 but if you're slinging the rifle for a 3 day hike you'd probably pick something else
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>>38818979
I have shot roller locked rifles in .308, 7.62x39 and 5.56. The control layout was less than ideal and I'm not crazy about the sights but all of them worked perfectly, which is the #1 thing and generally hit what I was shooting at which is #2.

There are better rifles, but I suppose if I had to carry an HK33 as a soldier I'd be fine with it.
>>
>>38818996
Near as I can tell the only complaint people have with the Rollerlock design is that it doesn't have LRBHO. Is there any particular reason that PTR hasn't solved this? I know HK made a roller-locked 10mm MP5 that had LRBHO.

>>38819010
>>is it heavy
Lightweight weapons matter for infantry on the move, high-speed low-drag operators... and not so much for your average /k/ommando or gun owner.

>>38819054
>>Way too fucking heavy for a 5.56 rifle
perfectly fine for a range toy or a home defense rifle. Not all of us are going to ruck 40 miles with a rifle. Hell. I would wager no one on /k/ would.

>>Cleaning roller delayed guns sucks too.
Good thing they don't have to be cleaned obsessively and constantly to have some modicum of reliability.

>>The design also makes it difficult to clear an obstruction in the chamber if that ever happens.
iirc this is why the gun isn't LRBHO - keeps the chamber closed to minimize the possibility of any obstructions getting into the chamber.
>>
>>38819010
It's about ten pounds. I never got an intermediate cartridge rifle, so it's not a problem for me. 5.56 feels like a baby gun when my friends let me try theirs.
>>38819090
We get it, you're a lanklet.
>>>/fit/
>>
>>38819193
Redesigning mags is a big mistake since $3 G3 mags is half of the appeal
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>>38818979
Sure. I'd rather have my AR though.
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>>38818979
It's a rifle that works, rain or shine. The action extracts pretty early, and rather violently, but the fluted chamber makes sure the case never sticks, so you can be sure of positive extraction or ejection.

>If this was your service rifle would you be happy with it?
I'd prefer an M16 or C7 or something, but as someone who doesn't like optics or care about a million billion lasers and lights, it'd be a perfectly alright rifle to use. If I needed to put on an optic, there's decent rail mounts available.
With a bayonet and some 40 round magazines, I think I'd be pretty satisfied, but they'd hardly put me on the frontlines (or that my country is invaded) so it's not like I'd ever get the opportunity to shoot at much.

>>38819010
The G3/HK91 is slightly heavy, but that's all battlerifles.
The HK33/HK93 is ok.

>>38819054
>cleaning
It's not really that bad, it gets dirty as fuck, and all over the inside, but it'll just keep trucking.
It's not like every cleaning session is detail cleaning.
>>
>>38819199
Come on man no .22LR either? Or PCC? Sure it doesn't feel like a .308 but fuck they're fun. Even with my 30-06, .308, 5.56 and 7.62x39 (amongst others) I still would rather go through a box of .22LR than anything else
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>>38819210
Eh, true. I was just hoping you could maybe just change the follower or something, similar to those LRBHO AK mags but in a way that would actually work well.
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>>38819110
Who? Fucking Estonia? Or Greece? that's even worse.

Everybody else that used them 'uses' them in the same way the US still uses m14s. Not at all.
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>>38819258
They're useful in that you know when you're empty but not much of an advantage since AK LRBHO mags will drop the bolt once the mag is removed

I'd imagine it's prossible but the action is violent and the followers might encounter a lot of force trying to impede the bolt
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>>38819247
Bayonet and 40r Magazines, you say?
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>>38819299
Swedes use them with their Home Guard, and I think some other Euro countries also do the same with their reserves and national guards.
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>>38819323
>swedes
Third world.
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>>38819317
God, it's even got the OD green furniture and the port-buffer, that'd actually be a pretty good rifle for me.
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>>38819345
Not yet, but we're sort of getting there at an uncomfortably steady pace.
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>>38819362
Sweden is by textbook definition third world.
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>>38819302
That’s what I have read for why it is not lrbho, it would warp the receiver with the sudden blockage/stoppage.
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>>38818996
>The bolt doesn't lock open
boo fucking hoo
Stop being such a bitch
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>>38819386
>first world usa-nato allies
>second world commie-ussr allies
>third world all the rest
This anon gets it.
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>>38819254
.22 isn't an intermediate cartridge...
Of course I have a .22, it's a Henry AR-7.
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>>38819353
I rattle-canned them OD because I'm not giving HK more of my money. I thought about it, too.

Have an abomination.
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>>38819386
Oh, you mean original definition, well, then, yeah.
We used to be extremely concerned about Russia, back when they were commies and an actual potential threat, so we used to be armed up pretty damn well.

These days, the military, and also the country, is just an outright joke.
I pray that we one day just fucking Balkanize or something, so I could just be cut off from the Swedish government and everything else stupid in the south.
>>
>>38819193
Price. Modified mags would be too expensive and unappealing to some purists, and if they adapt their rifles for stanag mags, it would bump up the MSRP from not only the addition of a bolt catch, but from modifications to the magwell.
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>>38819423
Is the bipod worth it? Is that a real HK or did you fix up a Century?
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>>38818979
I love mine, it's a good gun. The most modern 41 varieties have LRBHO and AR mag comparability, forward assists, brass deflectors, the works.
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>>38818979
Ten days after the pre-order ended and I am still haunted by not getting one....
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>>38820981
Yeah, same here..

>>38820974
Just ordered a bipod for this btw, been using the mag as a monopod, it's suprisingly stable.
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>>38820981
>Century HK93 clone
It's probably not going to be all that amazing, chances are they're as ratty as their C308s.
>>
Who else makes a good hk 93? I know PTR 91s are good G3 rifles for the money, does PTR make an hk 93 aswell?
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>>38821079
Nigger, they are being built by PTR and using mostly PTR and surplus parts.
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>>38821098
PTR makes their HK91 clone, which is good.
They also recently started making a HK94/MP5 clone, which is probably decent, but I don't know for sure.
If they're ever going to make a HK93 clone, it probably won't be for another good few years, though it'll probably be good when they do.

Vector used to make a HK93 clone, which I understand was supposed to be pretty good.
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>>38820974
>>38821001
How much dat boi set you back if you don't mind me asking?
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>>38821156
$1300 for a used Z43P converted with a 4" pin/weld flash hider
$125 for a used A3 stock
$184 for a Trijicon RX01 4.5moa with an HK mount
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I have a MIGHTY NEED
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>>38818979
Looks fine to me, the G3 works well and so does the MP5 so I don't see why this would be any different.
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>>38818979
g36 is better
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>>38821596
PFFFFFFFFFFFFF
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>>38818979
The Ak4 (which is the Swedish G3) is my service rifle. So.

>>38819247
>It's a rifle that works, rain or shine.
Know how I know you've never actually used it outside of a range?

As a service rifle it sucks balls for FIBUA, where weight and length make it annoying as fug to use, compared to the G36. For forest operations and defensive it's fine, I guess.

Also, whoever thinks this rifle works "rain or shine" has clearly never gotten sand into the cocking lever mechanism. Good look trying to get it working again without compressed air.

Cleaning and disassembly isn't too bad, with the notable exception that the trigger mechanism cannot be cleaned in the field due to the way it was designed. That can also cause problems. Fitting the bolt head can be problematic before you get the hang of it, but I guess everyone knows that.

The butt is prone to shatter at -25C (-13F), seen that happen more than once.
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>>38821616
How old and shitty is yours though? Is this like American GIs hating the Beretta even though it's awesome because the one they used was a beat to shit 20 year old POS?
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>>38821639
If he's in the homeguard, the rifle is probably ancient, probably not Greece tier abused and used up, but hardly mint either.
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>>38821639
Fairly old, but not very shitty would be honest way to answer. Recovered from conservation post-Crimea, I think. Assembling the bolt carrier is more tricky on fresher rifles, though, as the locking lever is harder.

My main problem, for FIBUA, is weight and length (the Ak4 is even longer - thanks, Sweden) - same goes for sand in the cocking lever, seems like something inherent to the design. And, being fucked with a nonfunctional rifle in the field, will get you killed. No bamboo skewer tomfoolery I've seen has unfucked an Ak4 with sand in the cocking mechanism.

I suppose modern materials tolerate cold better, tho.

It fires true, is comfy enough for full auto ass blasting no complaints there. Jams are also easy enough to solve (everyone carries pliers or a multitool).

But, also, as the standard we carry for these fuckers in peacetime is 4 mags, I'm very much waiting for the switch to G36, which thus gives me a combat load of 8x30, instead of 4x20.
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>>38821667
>sand in the cocking lever
How would that cause a problem? Can't you just pull harder?
>>
Very cool. I had a Vector Arms clone and I loved it. I eventually sold it because I didn't feel like paying $200 for two (2) thirty rounders.
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>>38821596
Having both...marginally so in certain areas. Between the two I'd rather have a modestly upgraded HK33 over a G36. Welded top rail, HK21/23 charging handle, collapsible stock like the MP5 F stock, I can take or leave the STANAG magwell. I wouldn't be unhappy with a G36, specifically a G36KE.
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>>38821711
There is no way to clean it, because there is no way to remove it from the receiver (at least that I've seen). With enough (at least Baltic) sand in there, it just jams, and cannot move back and forth at all. Hitting it with the butt of another Ak4 works maybe 10% of the time.
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>>38821733
>collapsible stock like the MP5 F
It's nice, really nice.
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>>38821733
g36 is a huge POS and criminally flawed.
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>>38821762
Are you basing that on reading things on the INTERNET? Cool.
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>>38821667
The G36 is lighter, but it really can't stand much full-auto, the trunnion is really kind of just embedded into the plastic and if the gun gets too hot the plastic will warp and the trunnion will shift, meaning the accuracy gets really fucked and nothing can be done to fix it.
Short bursts are ok, but sustained fire is just dangerous to the gun, in a sense.

I would probably have waited for the 433 instead, or even looked at some AK, if it had to be cheap.
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>>38821782
Apart from the "melting Germans in Afghanistan" incident, is there any meaningful proof of G36 not withstanding full auto? The plastic frame deforms after uninterrupted 2500-3000 rounds but, ffs, it's not am LMG.

Our professional military uses it, and I've heard zero complaints (apart that the retarded star-shaped bolt which is annoying to clean), including the guys that have done Afghanistan and Mali.
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>>38821812
No, it's a fucking internet meme and people don't question it because "Lol, plastic dude, common sense"

>>38821782
Okay, and your evidence is?
>Don't forget, HK won that lawsuit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbTyFloelc
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>>38821812
>retarded star-shaped bolt
How is that a retarded feature?
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>>38821817
See the rest of the sentence. More precisely, the fact that it dictates difficult to clean grooves in the receiver that accommodate.

You will notice a lot of my points are about cleaning, so you know I'm legit.
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>>38818979
>Heckler und cock
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>>38821834
Who gives a shit about if it takes a bit more to clean? The advantages far outweighs that drawback.
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>>38821839
You're forgetting important factors

>Soldiers don't shoot
>When soldiers do shoot, they miss
>All soldiers do is clean weapons and wair for air support or indirect fire

It literally doesn't matter, we should be giving everyone AK74s and calling it a day because the ammo is light, the gun is relatively robust to impacts and dumbassery, and it's so fucking easy to clean.
>>
>>38821879
I guess you have a point there.
I'd insist on 5.56mm for logistics though.
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>>38821879
The squad has one task - keep the MG firing and don't lose the CG for when you need it. That is the function of a rifleman who isn't on the MG or the CG.
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>>38821889
Fair enough, an AK in 5.56 that takes AR mags.

>>38821909
The germans had it right in the 40s
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>>38821939
I think the Germans had a three man MG team with a designated ammo carrier, which we do not, but otherwise - sure.
>>
Decent military rifle, but it is a hipster gun for those who don't want to join the herd of AR15's
>>
>>38821879
>>38821889
>>38821939
This is the very concept behind the G36. It's a remarkably simple rifle, easy to take apart and maintain, and it's made mostly of injection molded plastics you can churn out like fucking crazy if the rogue ex-soviet general decides to rush his loyal troops across the Fulda gap. Everything about it is easy to use and not easy to break. It's very accurate at typical rifle fire cadence, it can even mag dump a very large volume of ammunition and keep working...with loss of zero...but at a point your M4 gas tube would have already exploded/AK barrel drooped at the gas block and bound up the piston. It's the Fischer-Price plastic gun for retarded conscripts and it excels at that.
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>>38821955
I meant the broad dedication and focus on MGs, not more specifically the makeup of fireteams or squads.
We also have more focus on fix and maneuver than they did.
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>>38821979
Nah, it has to be the absolute best in every category, exceed realistic use, and be cheap, otherwise it's shit and will be memed to death.
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>>38821979
Sounds about right. I could disassemble and assemble one in under two minutes with only like 20 minutes of practice.

>>38821983
True. We go from the notion "if the MG stops barking, you're all fucked". Also - everyone needs to learn to load belts quickly and without fuckups.
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>>38821879
Do they not issue you or do you not have access to the locking lug recess cleaning swaps for multi-lug bolts like the G-36 and M-16/M-4?

Look up Otis cleaning tools.
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>>38822034
No and not really. You get the default G36 cleaning kit, and gun stores generally store general Fudd stuff.
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>>38822043
Internet dude. Order some through the internet. They save a ton of hassle. Stick them on your cleaning jag, spin them a few times in the locking recesses after you used your chamber brush and you're done.
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>>38818979
I have a Zenith 43 and I love it. Sure she's a little chunky, but it feels the same as carrying a milled AK, and lighter than carrying a fullsize '91. Roller guns are so much fun to shoot, the recoil pulse is gentle beyond words. You guys really need to play with one before you trash them.
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>>38822526
That two stage "chug-klunk" recoil always makes me grin
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>>38820974
>>38821001
>>38821199
>>38821752

WHOA HEY anon if that's a regular MP5 collapsing stock you're gonna fuck up your gun. Zenith doesn't use a buffered bolt carrier.
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>>38822569
I know
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>>38822569
>>38822603
To elaborate
>The Z43P comes with an unbuffered carrier AND an unbuffered end cap (seen here) so they obviously don't think it's a problem
>There have been reports of the 93 running standard H-buffer stocks without roller bounce or receiver stretch
>I'm closely monitoring it every 60 rounds or so

Thanks for looking out though
>>
>>38820748
Not him but I can say that yes, for range shooting the bipod is definitely worth it. It does add a good bit of weight to an already heavy rifle, but then so does my metal SEF lower and I still have both. I don't think that is a century either, their CETME builds don't have that HK profile barrel.
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>>38820981
I had no idea this was happening. It hurt's a lot. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go with the Brethren like I was already considering.
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>>38822723
>The Z43P comes with an unbuffered carrier AND an unbuffered end cap (seen here) so they obviously don't think it's a problem
I've spoken directly to Zenith about this. In a pistol format the gun is able to move with the recoil when fired, with your arms serving as a shock absorber. When configured as a rifle, the gun is not able to move with the recoil nearly as much, and requires a proper buffer. Roller damage to the receiver is no joke, Polenar Tactical just recently fragged their HK-91 during a video after neglecting it for too long.
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>>38821998
There’s not a single gun in existence that fits that description. So I guess every gun is a big faggot meme
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>>38819028
>>38819051
No one cares about your retarded mentality. Reduced weight without sacrificing combat effectiveness and weapon durability has always been a goal of weapons design. Kill yourselves.
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>>38822782
That doesn't explain their use with a brace, and by the time the gun moves under recoil the BCG has already impacted.

Polenar was shooting out of spec ammo that caused the damage.
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>>38822873
Now you understand/k/
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>>38822883
>>38822782
Also, the zenith brace uses an H-buffer, not a spring loaded 93 buffer
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>>38818979
I'll keep my autism and cetme L instead
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>>38822883
>>38822930
Look niggers you don't have to listen to me, I'm just trying to help you not break your toys by accident. As long as you know the risks involved you're free to justify using the wrong stock however you like. You may never even have an issue, just don't blame the gun if you do.

Also the 2nd gen aluminum SBT brace doesn't use the same H buffer as an mp5 stock, they use some proprietary blue polymer now because the old braces weren't holding up well to 5.56. That should be a sign to you as well.
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>>38823039
I fucking said i know and I'm monitoring it, don't be a catty bitch.

They changed the brace because they were cracking, everyone is reporting the buffers appear to be the same.
My stock is also a .40 stock not a 9mm
>>
Why didn't the HK33 catch on like the G3 did?
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>>38823039
Are the 2nd gen aluminum SBT braces good to go with the 9mm Z5RS?
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>>38825117
Yes, they're just MP5 braces that were reinforced to not break under 5.56, the buffer is "supposedly" a different rubber but it's the same damn size. They advertise them as 9mm/5.56 compatible.
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>>38820981
>tfw I got my order in early on

Got some HK 30rd mags and the parts to install the paddle release. My body is ready.
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>>38824651
because the countries that would want it already blew their budget on FALs or G3s
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>>38822976
How do you like your Cetme L? Is it a HMG? Does it run OK with regular STANAG mags?
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>>38825918
Pretty much this, and perhaps more importantly they already had metric fuck tons of 7.62x51mm and plus the web gear for FAL or G3 magazines. Think of all the shit that would need replacing, beyond even guns, magazines, and spare parts. It would be an immense expenditure, even after they dumped all of their old shit on and even poorer country.
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>>38819010
Dont know about other nogs, but i was AT and when ever i could ditch the CG M2 it felt like i wasnt carrying anything
t.estonian conscript
>>
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>>38818979
Cetme is best 308
change my mind




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