[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/k/ - Weapons



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




File: Series80blued.jpg (101 KB, 582x363)
101 KB
101 KB JPG
Why did US police issue revolvers for so long instead of buying 1911s?
>>
>>39146448
In my unqualified opinion? Probably fuddlore such as
>Revolvers are more reliable
>>
qtddtot
>>
File: 1514845375648.gif (3.54 MB, 280x200)
3.54 MB
3.54 MB GIF
>>39146448
because militaries are conservative establishments
>>
>>39146448
Because they wanted cops to actually fire at least one round without a jam.
>>
>>39146486
>muh revolvers don't jam meme again
>>
>>39146505
Oh they Jam like a mother... But usually its on second or third round... As oppose to the Jam-o-matic which does so on EVERY round.
>>
File: _12_Woman-gun.jpg (210 KB, 1000x1333)
210 KB
210 KB JPG
>>39146448
>Revolvers are more reliable

This was actually true in the beginning of autos and the idea kind of stuck around longer than it was true.

The real reasons are more complex.

1) Lawmen had been using revolvers before autos, were used to them and confident in their use

2) Revolvers have a very simple manual of arms that is easy to intuitively understand. Departmental training in the use of firearms was nonexistent when autos were coming on the market.

3) Revolvers were so entrenched with th eLEO community that institutional inertia (it ain't broke so we don't have to spend money to fix it) would basically keep revolvers in their dominant position until the great Glock titty and cocaine party wars of the 1980s started an ever spiraling competition among departments to see who could become space cops first.
>>
>>39146486
Why would he design an unreliable firearm?
>>
>>39146541
All this, and the Proto-Fudds declaring that they didn't need cops using military weapons.
But somehow Thompsons were ok.
>>
>>39146570
He needed money for bitches. It's always bitches.
>>
>>39146588
>Thompsons were ok.

This is the birth of LEOs justifying using taxpayer money to get toys to play with. I can't hate on them. I would want a Thompson too if I could get someone else to pay for it.
>>
>>39146448
1911s are expensive, heavy and very likely to be lethal. A .38 special is more compact, inexpensive and will be more likely to incapacitate rather than kill.
>>
>>39146505
>38 special and 357 crimp jumping
>>
>>39146753
US police doctrine doesnt have a history of using standard ammo to "incapacitate"
>>
>>39146753
That's retarded, you're retarded, get out of here.

>>39146755
Really only a problem in very low quality ammo.
>>
>>39146448
Someone linked an FBI training vid that had everyone still using revolvers in '74. Fuck man, the 92fs was designed before that. The S&W 59 had been around for God knows how long.
>>
Because barriers to entry. The US police force was deep in revolvers and revolvers got the job done adequately that it would have been cost ineffective to change standard sidearms.
>>
>>39146798
S&W 59s are hunks of shite
>>
>>39147273
How so?
>>
>>39146448
The FBI actually adopted the 1911 in the 20s in .38 Super because it could penetrate vehicle doors and windows better than .38 Special or .45 ACP, but they immediately switched back to revolvers once the .357 Magnum came out very soon after.

In general, once the .357 magnum came out, police had the excuse that no automatic could even come close to its performance until 10mm came out in the 80s.
>>
File: Tags_andy_01.jpg (120 KB, 1017x762)
120 KB
120 KB JPG
>>39146448
Alot of it was PR.

PDs wanted to keep the Andy Griffith image as long as possible, it's harder to do that when an average cop is walking around in all black with armor and a Wonder 9 on his hip.
>>
>>39146516
>every gun he touches jams.

Maybe it's not maybelline, maybe it's just you...
>>
>>39146454
this

>>39146448
1911s are for MPs. an elegant blued sixshooter is a lawmans gun.
>>
>>39146448
Because shooting people is not the primary role of the police.
>>
>>39146486
god where do you idiots come from.
>>
>>39147898
This, actually.

LE back then were resistant to change in the first place, so on one hand it was "My revolver is more than enough" on the other hand, as odd as it might sound today, they also thought the 1911, being the US military sidearm, projected a scary image of militarization. That's when LE actually cared about having a more caring image.

Some would beef up though, you can read anecdotes from time to time on forums of old LEOs carrying a 1911 or a S&W 59 series and basically being the some of the only people they knew in LE that would ever have a semi-auto of any sort among an entire department of officers carrying revolvers.

Things changed though. Instances like the North Hollywood Shootout and the Miami-Dade Shootout started giving LEOs the mindset they needed more firepower, and rightfully so. In both instances the criminals were armed with semi-automatic and (illegally converted) fully-automatic rifles. In Miami-Dade it was two guys but just one had a Mini-14 (the other a pump shotgun) and yet he alone managed to overwhelm eight FBI agents, almost all of whom were armed with just revolvers.

Adding to the whole situation is that at the time Glock was coming around in the US and making an incredibly aggressive push to get their guns adopted in police departments across the nation. They gave insane credit on trade-in for whatever guns the police were willing to give them and sold them new Glocks for dirt-cheap. Before long it became the new trend to buck any revolvers and switch to semi-autos, whether they were Glock 17, S&W 5906, Sig P226 or Beretta 92FS.
>>
>>39147749
magazine geometry
>>
>>39146448
1911s were trash for a long time. still are if QC isn't modern
>>
>>39147898
Los angeles had Hi Powers back in ebin "good ole days", but like the retarded californians they were they carried them with a bullet in the chamber and no magazine inside
>>
1911's had QC issues, it wasn't unheard of to buy one brand new and then immediately take it to a gunsmith to make it run. Ball ammo was of decent effectiveness but early hollow points were crap, especially in .45 acp, if they even fed. The 1911 is a military pistol, remember, it was designed to shoot ball only. It is also large, heavy, and in comparison to revolvers, complicated to operate. Recoil is also substantial in comparison to a K-frame .38 Special.

.38 Super 1911's specifically had reliability and accuracy problems, both attributed largely to the semi-rim.
>>
>>39148345
keep in mind, these so-called "professionals" walked around with handguns in none working order for safety image but were the first ones to wear black uniforms (in fucking southern california desert) for "muh Intimidation"
>>
>>39147749
>>39147273
The 59 is a beast of a pistol. It feels like a fat Beretta IMO, and I have small hands but it's easily manageable. It's fed everything I've thrown at it. Granted some of the early ones had extractor issues, those were fixed.
>>
I have a .38 special police revolver from the 30s its a great gun
>>
>>39148364
it was designed to shoot ball only because its from the fucking 1900s mate
>>
>>39146798

Beretta 92 was 1975 and 92FS was 1985, dumbass.
>>
>>39146798
>The S&W 59 had been around for God knows how long.
Just three years at that time.
>>
>>39146516

found the limp wrist
>>
>>39146448
Not sure about revolvers but back during the old days 911s had bad sights and were not known for acurecy they were shot by instincts rather then the sights.

From what I hear old hand gun sights were really bad
>>
>>39148364
>1911's had QC issues, it wasn't unheard of to buy one brand new and then immediately take it to a gunsmith to make it run
This wasn't really true until the very late 70s and into the 90s. If the 1911 had been more widely adopted, Colt might have invested more in tooling upkeep instead of trying to hold on to their aging revolver craftsmen.
>>
>>39148210
>yet he alone managed to overwhelm eight FBI agents, almost all of whom were armed with just revolvers.
Platt had seen some shit
>>
>>39148766
I don't think he ever deployed he was garrison Army. He was just tough as hell, and probably a psychopath. Both of the dudes supposedly murdered their ex wives as well
>>
>>39148210
>LE back then were resistant to change in the first place
You'd think that between the world wars, Korea, and Vietnam that former mil who became cops would want to carry the same gun they used in the service
>>
>>39148663
Holy shit are you even American?
>>
>>39148558
I'm not her/him, but I don't have a limp wrist when shooting. I do very well and don't get malfunctions due to a limp wrist because that is not a habit I have, nor do I wish to perform such an action, which is easily avoidable by me.
>>
>>39146448
Hollow point magnum ammunition
>>
File: 1535164302849.png (189 KB, 394x373)
189 KB
189 KB PNG
>>39148558
How does a limp wrist cause jams?
>>
>>39146448
Because
>its what they had and what they were used to using
>they didn't need anything more
The main reason the wonder 9s picked up in popularity among LEOs is because of the crime wave that occured in the late 80s and early 90s. Even low tier criminals were using uzis glocks and other shit that outmatched the cops. In the past, cops had larger shotguns and smgs for mob type criminals who were armed, but your average guy didn't have anything big so there was no need.
Once terrorists, gangs, and other criminals came in with shit that completely outclassed anything the cops had, then they switched over.
>>
>>39146599
I’d rather use the American 180
>>
>>39146448
The folklore of the old days lawman was still strong, hence the shotguns and revolvers. Plus they have been using wheelgats a hell of a lot longer than semi auto pistols, so there was more familiarity. This is just the general reason why though.
>>
>>39148663
1911 sights are pretty great.
>>
>>39148371
>southern california desert
Hello flyover
>>
>>39148382
post it
>>
>>39149498
gun flops around and doesn't cycle properly
>>
>>39149498
>cuckime poster
>nogunz
like pottery
>>
>>39149581
chapparal, is that good enough for you bullet button?
>>
>>39149626
hello flyover
>>
>>39146468
Police aren't military.
>>
>>39149652
This insult only works on plebbit
>>
>>39149507
This. Its all about matching the criminal element.

Cops had 38 specials and scattergats for the longest time because the criminal element used 38s and shotguns. When the mob starred handing cops their asses using thompsons and BARs, cops got thompsons and BARs. However, engagements using sidearms didn't really change that much to the point where switching to a new platform would justify the cost.

Now, people generally have ARs or full fun pistol caliber guns, so cops have ARs. However, we havent switched away from the M9 because the new polymer shit floating around doesn't outmatch it to the point where the cost of a platform change is justified, PARTICULARLY if the FBI is still fine with 9mm based upon advances in the cartridge rather than the platform.

Luckily, smart criminals have realized this pattern and have backed off on using LMGs/explosives/crew served weapons on cops, and dumb criminals are too dumb to build them on their own, or we'd really start seeing some shit.

Though I am surprised we've never really seen a m249 or the like used in a crime since it doesn't require a crew and eats widely and cheaply available 556.
>>
>>39149702
>Though I am surprised we've never really seen a m249 or the like used in a crime since it doesn't require a crew and eats widely and cheaply available 556.
They're also really expensive and kind of useless in a criminal endeavor. Criminals typically buy really cheap black market guns and contrary to what you likely believe their primary motive is to make money, not shoot cops.
>>
>>39149702
>crew served weapons on cops
>Though I am surprised we've never really seen a m249 or the like used in a crime since it doesn't require a crew and eats widely and cheaply available 556.
Excuse me, but are you fucking retarded?
>>
>>39148387
>Excuses
Dude, I'm not saying it's the gun's fault, most military pistols of that era or even to the 60's won't feed hollow points. But, like, not being able to reliably use hollow points in an area where they are allowed is a huge disadvantage.

One of the huge reasons why 9mm wasn't widely adopted in the US around the same period is because large amounts of the ammo available was out of spec, which is a significantly greater problem. You'd be crazy to get a 9mm as a result unless you had a good source.
>>39148688
>That wasn't true until Colt started sucking
Fair.
>>
>>39148364
And the original 1911 magazines only held 7 rounds. So they were only giving up 1 or 2 rounds, depending on what condition they carried in, in exchange for more powerful rounds once 357 came out.
>>
File: 1493412211738.jpg (163 KB, 800x800)
163 KB
163 KB JPG
>>39149652
>hello flyover
You're just jelly that we can have proper modern rifles and you can't
>>
>>39146448
Old 1911s rarely jammed but did more often than revolvers, not to mention had been the go-to police duty carry for a century. Guns like the S&W J-frame are the epitome of unfailing, easy to operate crime stopper.

It's likely the revolver companies would be bidding lower than a then nuanced 1911 manufacturer to keep their customers.

Semi-automatic pistols were really awful before high precision machining was capable of creating tolerances

Also, if you've ever been experienced with an older revolver you will know that there is a certain confidence you feel whenever you aim and squeeze that dual-action, unlike 1911's anti-ergonomic ammo stuffing design.

I know what I'd carry (and do), that sweet 357 J-frame
>>
>>39146448
my father was issued a 4" security six from 88-95 ish, then they got Beretta 96ds, then Glocks in 45 gap. He prefered silver tips in the 357 with a 18" 12 guage wingmaster. He used the wingmaster more than anything else. Side arms are for o shit moments and looks. Shotguns, m16s, and 7600s are what primarily got used.
>>
>>39148345
Ey - HOL'UP

As much as I disagree with idiots who say don't keep a round chambered for "safety reasons", I can at least understand their logic. Wtf would you carry cocked and locked, but with no magazine though? Like, to what advantage?
>>
>>39149879
also a 2' kel light. He used the kel light more than anything.
>>
>>39147273
Fuck off cunt
>>
>>39149727
Well yeah, unless shooting cops serves a purpose.

A Thompson 1928 is an incredibly expensive gun, but the mob fielded it because the comparative vale of outgunning the cops was much greater.

I can only guess that the margins for violent crimes nowadays is simply lower and police response times are faster and tracking abilities are greater, so shooting your way out has a lot less value.
>>
>>39149908
you cant fire a hi-power without the magazine in the gun
>>
>>39149970
>>39149727
>>39149702
>spooked faggots still believe the criminals are selling drugs and not sitting behind office desks
>>
>>39146448
Because the low drag, high speed, tacticool turbo-autist mentality that is so prevalent today didn't exist yet.
>>
>>39150035
That's the opposite of an advantage.
>>
>>39150050
Drug dealers still exist, and a shit load of criminals are on the streets with hi-points in their hoodie pockets.
>>
>>39150062
I think the statement is mean to illustrate how reluctant police in California at the time were to use their guns.
>>
>>39150082
oh how the times have changed.
who's killed more innocent people, lapd or nypd?
>>
>>39150067
while your 401K gets magically split in half
>>
>>39150112
>>39150082
LAPD was always about "muh proffesionalism" despite the fact they managed to let a nigger who plainly cut his wifes head off slip away due to sloppy crime scene work and the most incompetent prosecutor the world had ever seen until the zimzam case
>>
>>39146454
Funny enough I've seen a documentary on like 1970's NYPD where during a briefing the sergeant said something along the lines "you're going out to face folk who potentially have fully automatic military grade weapons while armed with what is, with a little modification, a centuries old pistol, be very cautious."
>>
>>39150120
What's your point? You can have multiple forces to deal with multiple types of crimes, all at the same time.
>>
>>39150050
There is a difference between violent and white collar crime, but both still exist.

Problem is that penalties and prosecution for whit collar crimes are shit, but that's an entirely different issue that a new service pistol won't solve (on its own).
>>
>>39150112
>Implying blacks are people
>>
>>39150163
>penalties and prosecution for whit collar crimes are shit,
>implying anything outside of tax evasion gets prosecuted
>>
>>39150185
White collar crimes are prosecuted every day, they just aren't sexy stories so nobody cares.
>>
>>39148210
>le miami dade
2 of the agent's had Model 459's, shot 30 rounds and only hit once.
>>
>>39150203
don't forget the 357s only had 38s, people couldn't get their glasses on. The real mystery is how the criminals mini 14 didn't jam more.
>>
>>39150232
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jerri-williams/fbi-retired-case-file-review/e/54702704
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/jerri-williams/fbi-retired-case-file-review/e/54795496
>>
File: 1522100846727.png (274 KB, 900x844)
274 KB
274 KB PNG
>>39149581
>I live vicariously through the perception of "my state"
>California
>on /k/
get a load of this shallow faggot
>inb4 DUDE WEED
its not 2012 anymore Cory you can get weed in fucking Minnesota and Florida now
they can have weed AND real guns
>muh flyover
did you vote for Hilary too?
>>
>>39146448
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3250
>>
>>39150288
sweet, thanks!
>>
>>39150203
Was it two of them? I know one guy did, but while he was purported to be quite good with a pistol he apparently lost his glasses, hence why he only got one hit.

I know another agent that was there lost his gun when his car collided, perhaps he also had a 459?

Even then, one guy with a revolver was killed while he was reloading, that's not good. Another had a shotgun and was shot, having to work and steady the gun with only one arm. If the agent who was reloading had a 14+ round semi-auto he may have reloaded quicker, or not been approached at all seeing as how he was shot during reload. The other could have been more effective one-handed with a semi-auto pistol than a pump action shotgun, no doubt.

>>39150232
>The real mystery is how the criminals mini 14 didn't jam more.
Jamming? That's what you go with? For all the shit the Mini-14 gets not a single complaint has anything to do with it's reliability. Try again.
>>
File: mfw.png (796 KB, 675x578)
796 KB
796 KB PNG
>>39150296
...you could get weed in both those states, for decades
>>
File: 1536434113276.png (343 KB, 534x520)
343 KB
343 KB PNG
>>39150368
we mean LEGALLY dad now fuck off
>>
https://www.defensivecarry.com/documents/officer.pdf

This is a cool read if you guys want to see cop shooting and performance
>>
>>39150384
>implying state law saves you from Feds
>pot legal in florida and southern canada
since when?
>>
>>39150399
>implying state law saves you from Feds
this applies to California?
>since when?
a while
the whole point of the post was its not 2012 anymore so California isn't the only sanctuary of jazz cabbage
because you know if the califag kept posting he'd use that as a argument
>>
File: For-wiki-gif.gif (61 KB, 349x246)
61 KB
61 KB GIF
>>39150463
forgot gif
>>
>>39150471
pot is not legal in MN, the rich kid stroke victim of a governor listens to what the morons in the police union says (muh ebil satan weed) and only made CBD oil medicinal from like 1 clinic from yuppiea
polis, similar situation in FL
>>
>>39149652
>you don't live in the worst places!
Why should I be mad? I can't access salt water? That's the only real difference. Everything else is exactly the same, even taxes are getting bad. You think I can't spend $1000 on food in Oklahoma or Mississippi or Illinois?
>>
>>39150147
>you're going out to face folk who potentially have fully automatic military grade weapons
Hahaha. The whole "criminals carrying around full auto machine guns" is a hollywood trope. IRL you get snub nosed revolvers, cheap, compact automatics and sawn off shotguns. The average NYC yoof isn't going to be toting an uzi or an AK.
>>
>>39150050
*tips autism hat*
>>
>>39146570
He didn't. His designe used fully tapered feed lips and 1.26 OAL cartridges, which made the pistol extremely reliable.
>>
>>39146588
At a time when citizens could buy a Tommy gun at local hardware store
>>
>>39146588
>Proto-Fudds declaring that they didn't need cops using military weapons.
Do you have any evidence of that at all?
>>
>>39147273
10-4, good buddy
>>
>>39147957
True, they also carry out extortion, theft, and kidnappings.
>>
>>39147916
>n elegant blued sixshooter is a lawmans gun.
not along the border
>>
>>39148333
you know NOTHING!
>>
>>39149414
He's not even human
>>
>>39150549
Southwestern US is different, especially SoCal. Knockoff AKs, ARs, and Ingrams make it over the border pretty easily along with drugs and anchor babies. Cops in gang and organized crime units encounter these kinds of weapons on a regular basis.
>>
>>39149498
You must be over 18 to post here
>>
>>39149727
What is Las Vegas mass shooting?
>>
>>39150549
the average NY cop answered 200+ calls a month during the 70s 80s, they often found ebin hollywood stashes, before pocketing half the money and good guns
>>
>>39150624
yeah. sitting underneath the fucking couch
>>
>>39150082
LAPD is more corrupt than the NYPD. All PDs are politically motivated and controlled.
>>
>>39150232
>the criminals mini 14 didn't jam more.
You need to go back and never return
>>
File: platt.png (466 KB, 616x469)
466 KB
466 KB PNG
>>39148766
>>39148847
1) Platt was a hard motherfucker, a proficient rifleman with a deathwish.
2) His Mini-14 wasn't even full-auto, the dude just had an excellent trigger finger.
3) The biggest lesson to learn is that no pistol would have improved the situation for the Feds, if you bring handguns to face an expert rifleman with nothing to lose, you're disadvantaging yourself.

There was this strange idea that maybe a 10mm Pistol, a later .40S&W, or .45ACP pistol, would have improved their chances of surviving, but that's not at all the case.
Nothing short of .44 Magnum or .45 WinMag would have seriously improved odds, and that's only in theory; handguns like that are difficult to shoot and require substantial amounts of practice and getting used to, power means little if you can't place it where you need to.
They literally had access to MP5s, M16s, and better body armor, but the best they brought was ONE pump shotgun, which was taken out of the fight early, and wouldn't resume until the end, where Platt (and Matix) had already bled a bunch from all their pistol shot wounds.

Adrenaline and determination can carry you far before you eventually die, especially on top of proficiency, and pistols are generally just mediocre wounders, even in slightly larger calibers. Rifles consistently offer more power, more shots, easier control and aiming, they're just the best for fighting.
>>
File: zizekisnotthefather.jpg (166 KB, 500x315)
166 KB
166 KB JPG
>>39150663
>LAPD is more corrupt than the NYPD
>>
>>39150637
>Criminals typically buy really cheap black market guns and contrary to what you likely believe their primary motive is to make money, not shoot cops.
>typically: adverb /ˈtJp·J·kli/
in a way that shows the characteristics of a particular kind of person or thing, or gives a usual example of a particular thing:

Reading is hard
>>
>>39150722
not even in the same galaxy
>>
>>39148303
Get MecGars then.
>>
>>39148345
The Hi-Power can't fire without a magazine inserted, source your claim or go fuck yourself.
>>
File: hmm.jpg (576 KB, 1604x2006)
576 KB
576 KB JPG
>>39150734
>>
>>39149562
Pre-A1 sights were tiny as shit, and the A1s were not all that much better.
I'm sure the civilian market guns eventually featured nicer ones than the military, however, and I don't mean in just recent years.
>>
>>39146448
While 1911s can be reloaded faster, they carry 8 rounds compared to a revolver's six. While the 1911 still has a capacity advantage, it's not a huge one compared to a wonder9 that holds 15+ rounds.
>>
>>39149498
With a lax wrist, it moving absorbs energy the gun is supposed to use to cycle, as well as counteracting the inertia you've got going.

Some guns are VERY intolerant of limp-wristing, like the Desert Eagle, and some guns will tolerate quick a damn slack wrist, like Glocks.
>>
>>39150775
To add to this, criminals themselves were usually armed with revolvers. They weren't carrying mac 10s and uzis and glocks with stiltmags. The revolver was adequate for the job. That all changed with the crack epidemic, which is around the time cops started upgrading.
>>
>>39149702
>However, we havent switched away from the M9 because the new polymer shit floating around doesn't outmatch it to the point where the cost of a platform change is justified, PARTICULARLY if the FBI is still fine with 9mm based upon advances in the cartridge rather than the platform.
FBI recently switched to 9mm (with the Glock 17M), after having used .40S&W ever since they stopped using 10mm Auto, that they picked up after Platt teabagged them.
>>
File: wealth-of-crime.png (58 KB, 616x348)
58 KB
58 KB PNG
>>39149702
>Luckily, smart criminals have realized this pattern and have backed off on using LMGs/explosives/crew served weapons on cops
They almost NEVER use that shit, either on each other or cops, and didn't use them all that much back in the day either.

The favorite weapons of criminals is handguns, because they're light and concealable. Cheap ones are particularly liked as that's a smaller investment (and many crooks aren't too wealthy), particularly given that they may have to discard it to remove evidence.
The most powerful that pops up is shotguns, occasionally, and probably because they're cheap while coming off as very imposing.
Shit like semi-auto sporter rifles, or actual automatic weapons, are EXTREMELY rare in US crime, criminals of certain types may accrue some of the former as status symbols, but they never bother to use them in the commission of a crime.
>>
>>39149753
>most military pistols of that era or even to the 60's won't feed hollow points
Pistol hollowpoint cartridges were worthless garbage at that point, it's not like til the 80's where it finally began getting good.
>>
File: Milk the Game.jpg (40 KB, 744x575)
40 KB
40 KB JPG
>>39150783
>That all changed with the crack epidemic

Autofags eternally btfo. Pic related shot a cop recently. Face it your silly "auto" guns are a fad. Revolver master race.
>>
>>39150399
You can get a medical card for cbd concentrates in FL.
>>
>>39149849
>Semi-automatic pistols were really awful before high precision machining was capable of creating tolerances
Not to speak of ammunition tolerances.

For like 230gr hardball (.45ACP) like the Army used, there was a standard and you could get by, but for a long while, 9mm Luger ammo available in the United States was not manufactured with the greatest precision, case lengths could vary even in the same box of ammo, with some manufacturers, which obviously can lead to problems.
With improving ammo quality, 9mm would eventually catch on more.
>>
why don't cops use 7.62x25mm
>>
>>39150880
>medical card for cbd concentrates
>shit you can order online in all 50 states unhindered
>>
>>39150705
True.

I originally brought up the shootout though as a reason as to why cops decided to arm up and, as the OP asks as to why they took so long to go from revolvers. The Miami-Dade shootout was one of the key instances that made police stop and think about whether they ought to carry revolvers or something more efficient and, if necessary, keep something in the cruiser that offers more firepower like you suggest: a rifle.

Would rifles be best? Of course they would have been. But in this instance there can be little doubt that at the very least had they all had semi-auto pistols with a capacity greater than a whopping six rounds they may have fared better.

Then to your point: if they had access to M16s and MP5s why not use those? Because what was their worst enemy was just plain old hubris: "My revolver is more than enough to take down these punks" maybe they just watched too many Dirty Harry movies.
>>
>>39150753
kitana is better
>>
File: 1497647779326.jpg (201 KB, 757x784)
201 KB
201 KB JPG
>>39150911
>>
File: securitysixstainless.jpg (39 KB, 640x480)
39 KB
39 KB JPG
>>39149879
A 4" .357 is actually not a terrible sidearm at all, but yeah, you want a long gun.

It's crazy that Ruger basically gave these things away, they were amazing value. Still are on the used market.
>>
>>39150203
I think Platt was hit like six or seven times with 9mm and .38, until Mireles got back on his feet and started pounding him with buckshot by the end.
>>
>>39150232
Noguns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjBKI52y-cU
Same magazines, same action, go fuck yourself.
>>
>>39150320
The guy with the glasses had a .357 IIRC
>>
File: maxresdefault[1].jpg (1.28 MB, 3000x2145)
1.28 MB
1.28 MB JPG
>>39150918
...broham
>>
>>39150973
It's not the guns it's the culture.
>>
>>39150795
Very true. Not arguing that FBI has always used 9mm, just that the 92S has been a State LEO staple since the 90s. If 9mm is now the preferred cartridge of the Fed now too, idk how you could justify moving to a marginally superior platform or a different cartridge. The end-point being that the same situation was present in the 1920s-1940s and its why the 1911 and marginally superior capacity in 45ACP never became a LEO go-to
>>
>>39150973

I like this image. It seems the anti-fun crowd has a short term memory.
>>
>>39150990
black panthers planted bombs on police chiefs and state prosecutors cars
where do you think those pinko yuppies in the weather tofuground got their ideas?
>>
>>39150579
If they could afford one, they were inherently expensive to buy.
>>
>>39151021
Small group. Limited operational areas. Now any major city has borderline no-go zones of mass chaos 24/7 chimpouts.
>>
>>39150902
Because it's a stupid meme cartridge for autists.
>>
>>39150918
Did you grab that off my uncle's facebook feed?
>>
>>39150902
US is not Eastern Bloc
>>
>>39150990
Black culture has certainly gotten worse in recent decades.
>>
>>39151069
that implies they ever had a culture that was worthwhile
>>
>>39151042
are you sure about that
>>
>>39151084
They did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwc5wMNidSk
>>
>>39151040
>doesnt know about 1968
whatever paid slav shill
>>
>>39150744
Dude that guy's retarded, the 59 runs fine (with ball, HPs were barely a thing when it was designed, and once they became common the gun was updated with the 459/559/659 pistols) and the magazines are good enough that a fuckton of other guns used them (with different mag release cutouts, like you saw with the Beretta 92 and SIG P226 mags as well), and S&W factory mags are at bare minimum equal to Mec Gar, sometimes better (such as the final iterations of the 645/4506 pattern mags being better than Wilson Combat 1911 mags)
>>
A lot of people don't realize that PDs were just super resistant to change, to the point that most didn't authorize .357 Magnum OR fucking SPEEDLOADERS (so they had dump pouches and cartridge loops) until the 1980's
>>
>>39146448
To put it simply, they didnt need it. Crime wasnt bad in the US until the gang (nigger) related stuff in the 90s when cops started stepping up their game. Why replace revolvers if the only thing they really get used for is threatening the occasional drunk or smacking the occasional black person?
>>
>>39151084
go be a racist democrat somewhere else you fuck
>>
>>39150973
You have to give the 3 on the right credit for their aesthetics. I mean, I self identify as a nazi but those guys look pretty cool.
>>
>>39151157
True, though Smith & Wesson only ever made like 14rd magazines for their old steel framed autos, whilst with MecGar you can upgrade to 17rds fitting flush.
>>
>>39151203
>in the 90s
retard millennial detected
>crime rate sky rocketed in the late 70s
>departments did everything from retarded "muh broken window" hiring police chiefs from even shittier places like NYC. chicago et al to be chiefs (which accomplished nothing but pissing everyone off) to doubling foot patrols and preventing promotions in order to keep more cops in the street
>the calls keep doubling every 3 months no matter how many arrests get made
>departments were shitting their pants at the onslaught of halfcocked newspapers blaming them for everything
>one week paper claims police brutality on a scumbag arrested for armed robbery, the proceeds to blame the department when the judge lets the animal out and he murders his skank of a girlfriend in a drunk rage
>>
>>39150578
>used fully tapered feed lips and 1.26 OAL cartridges, which made the pistol extremely reliable.
Why isn't this the case now?
>>
>>39151255
15 round was standard cap by the 80's, for their full sized double stack 9mms. I was just saying you would be really well off even if you only had a bunch of OEMs
>>
>>39151343
Hey, I am a retard zoomer.
Most Police offices, especially in more rural areas, still issued revolvers into the 90s, and some continue it to this day. Put simply, if the old model 10s aren't presenting any problems that could be solved with new guns, why spend the money?
>>
>>39151396
>more rural areas
the further away from the city, the less they give a shit about whats in a uniformed officers holster
>>
>>39150522
found the pothead
>>
>>39151424
jokes on you, im an alcoholic
>>
Anytime you needed something more you were use a rifle.

Also semi often had only a small increase in capacity, if any, for a dramatic increase in cost.
>>
>>39149652
>flyover
Do you think this is fucking Gawker?
>>
>>39150750
That was probably the idea. Use the magazine as a safety because they were retarded.
>>
>>39150529
>> a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?
>>
File: 1535769489614.png (371 KB, 1500x839)
371 KB
371 KB PNG
>>39146448
Because they were 30 yo boomers
>>
>>39146448
revolver is about 8oz lighter, which helps when carrying all day. more importantly, it requires less training. lots of foreign police forces only shoot 50 rounds of 38spl a year and still pass their qualifier.
>>
>>39147989
facebook meme pages probably
>>
>>39149652
10/10 troll, maximum kek at the butthurt rednecks

just wait until they find out about that other west coast state where you can be coastal elitist and carry real modern guns
>>
>>39149849
at first I thought this but I've seen sources claiming that 1911s cost the gvmt $24 and revolvers were $25-27. although the cost of the 1911 went up nearer to 30 by the end of the war.
>>
>>39151244
>expecting anyone to give a fuck about your identity
fuck off back to tumblr you piece of shit
>>
>>39146589
Ironically enough Browning was Mormon and was raised in a polygamist family.
>>
>>39149970
if you're shooting at cops your business as fucked and you're a fucking failure.
>>
>>39149678
Consider the following
>>
>>39149498
the force exerted when you fire around is partially used for normal operation of the firearm.
if you go limp wrist all that force just makes your hand flop around.
Now get out nogunz anime faggot.
>>
>>39151025
They were probably only $200 back then. Today's guns are much more expensive.
>>
>>39155829
The Thompson is inherently a very expensive gun, the receiver is machined from a block of steel, the Blish-Lock adds complexity (and is really just a very badly designed delayed blowback action), the drums were expensive and had many parts.
There was a $200 tax added by the NFA, which was a hideous amount of money back then, far more than the actual price of the weapon itself, add it up, and adjusted for inflation, you're looking at like $4000 for a Thompson.

Meanwhile, you can grab or build yourself an AR15 rifle for $500 and it's a good rifle. Modern guns are very cheap compared to old guns.
>>
>>39151099
Yes
>>
>>39146448
My answer
>They were just waiting for glocks to come out so they didn't have to use the shitty M1911
>but then I remembered I like the M1911 and am not a glock fag.

Logic answer:
>Early M1911s had shitty sights
>.45 is better at killing than it is at just wounding
>Police really weren't militarized until the 1980s when they were getting really outgunned and at that point they had better options.
>Police firearms back then were treated in a more lax manner. They didn't have to 'keep page's with criminals.
>The .38 was just there to wound and be relied upon.
>Rarely if ever did they have to whip out the shotgun or anything more powerful.
>>
>>39156751
>>.45 is better at killing than it is at just wounding
>>The .38 was just there to wound and be relied upon.
Cringe.
>>but then I remembered I like the M1911
Yeah.
>>
>>39146454
fpbp





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.