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>Help, advice, guidance on medications and dosages
>HRT related medical experiences and research
>Availability and pricing of medications
>Rational and scientific discussion

Please take the survey and help us determine the best medications, dosages, and treatment regime to get the results we want.

▶ Survey: https://1drv.ms/xs/s!AudRJceTA5C9c2G5lCV2Avq0kQ0
▶ Raw survey data: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AudRJceTA5C9cyIWo6_X14AvHyM
▶ HRTGen Data Analysis: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AudRJceTA5C9gRLLWnbpdzlIxe4r
▶ HRT Anime Girl Info Sheets: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AudRJceTA5C9gQnyM7wxZcBGWRzW
▶ Where to get meds: https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/c-88-transgender.aspx
▶ Also here: https://www.qhi.co.uk/ http://www.alldaychemist.com/
▶ Pill Identification: https://www.drugs.com/imprints.php
▶ DrugBank Database: https://www.drugbank.ca/
▶ Basic HRT info: https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/gsc/assets/hormones_MTF.pdf
▶ Hormone target ranges: http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm
▶ TransDIY: https://www.reddit.com/r/transDIY
▶ Blood Testing (US Only): https://www.privatemdlabs.com/

▶ /HRTGen/ Archives: https://1drv.ms/w/s!AudRJceTA5C9fiPMDzSLX7xF9MI (older than loveisover.me)

Previous thread: >>9339707
>>
Will HRT make my chin dimple shrink or go away?
>>
Happy New Year everyone. I added a couple new links to the copypasta. I added privatemdlabs for US blood testing, and drugbank.ca, a database with a massive amount of information about pretty much every drug out there, including experimental drugs.
>>
Courtesy link to a post near the bottom of the previous thread:
>>9364189
>>
alright I’m 18 and I’m currently trying to get that IGF-1 good shit as high as I can as I’ve been told it drops away after turning 16-17. Currently taking 1000UI of Vitamin D, 1000mcg of B12 and 500mg Acetyl L Cartinine daily to try and raise my IGF-1, but wondering if anyone has played with MK-667 and can tell me their results on it. Just want my chest to develop to its maximum potential :S
>>
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>>9361026
Do you know your bmi?
After all, you need a good bone/muscle/fat/hydration calculation otherwise you might be extremely anorexic or just very underweight and we wouldn't even know. The major thing is numbers matter when it comes to being anorexic or obese. And if theres no fat, i doubt there can be effective fat redistribution.
For a good idea heres a chart I use(disregard the spanish, its easy enough).
It helps because it also divides how much water retention you have and age calculations. Not everything is fat and that is misleading, we need water to have a proper metabolism, hair condition and skin care.
>>9364393
Im 2 months 3 weeks in and Ive been sensitive since the 2nd week. Its only become more sensitive. But then again girls getting punched in the boobs is always painful soo....
>>
>>9361014
That's actually a female issue I think, female hormonal balance + genetic predisposition. Several of my cis female friends have those same bags, despite sleeping very well.
>>
Theorically, is there something like "maximum levels you'd get" at certain dosages? For example, when taking 1mg twice a day of sublingual estrogen, how much can you absorb if you keep the pills under your tongue? What should be your spike levels when absorbing 100% of 1mg?
>>
>>9365365
>how much can you absorb if you keep the pills under your tongue
like 25% iirc
>>
>>9365384
Is there a reason for that, or maybe a way to increase the absorption?
>>
>>9365407
cause your liver breaks it down
patches are better apparently (around 80-90%)
injections are 100%
>>
Could 50mg bica/day with 10mg E. valerate injections/week enough to block DHT? I feel like the E is definitely lowering my test levels just based upon how I feel, but my first bloodwork after starting E isn't for another month and a half. As long as my T is fairly low, I shouldn't have to balding from extra DHT right? I'd really like to stop taking a duta, but I' ascared.
>>
>>9365895
Get blood tests. If your T is low you'll know the DHT is low too then you can stop taking duta.
>>
Are injections always ideal?

Where do you source syringes from?
>>
So I had a blood test recently and I have a vitamin D deficiency. Not sure if this can be caused by the HRT? (I'm an idiot who didn't get blood tests done before starting HRT).

Been on cypro + progy for approx. 5 months.
>>
>>9366233
Injections are the best way to go for E. Because they're absorbed through the muscle, you don't have to worry about any liver issues or losing any of your dose through metabolism. It's basically like your body is naturally producing it.

Injections are hard to self med with, though. Any time you're injecting something into muscle you want to be sure it's 100% sterile, and the needles you're using are the right bore/length. I'm sure there's a safe way to do it without a prescription, but prescription is the easiest way because whatever pharmacy you go to will set you up with everything you need.

Sublingual pills and patches are good also. Just steer clear of oral route, as there really is no benefit compared to other methods.
>>
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>>9366583
I have vitamin d deficiency as well but that's because I never leave my house or go out in the sun

Vitamin d deficiency is really common in developed countries though and it's not more prevalent in women than in men so HRT shouldn't be affecting it at all.
>>
>>9366604
>Just steer clear of oral route, as there really is no benefit

rly tho? dont scare me anon
>>
>>9366680

Yeah, I figured it was probably deficient before the HRT. I've looked like I have a terminal illness for years.
>>
>>9366695
it's actually kinda bad cause it lowers your igf-1 and that means less tit growth iirc
>>
>>9366844
Is that why I'm flat chested after a year of 4mg progy and 25mg cypro? Why didn't you hons warn me?
>>
>>9366604
won't injections give you a massive e spike the day you inject and then low e levels the rest of the week? kinda like this graph (for sublingual) but more dramatic
>>
Do hrt meds have a flavour? If I were to slip them into my little brothers meals would he notice?
>>
>>9366855
Not really, you get about 600pg/mL max with valerate and then slowly decrease to 100pg/mL over the week
seems pretty high to me
>>
>>9366854
Progynova gives you high estrone levels which is also bad. I'd only use it after feminization is done.
>>
>>9366873
My estradiol tablets are sweet. Don't slip shit into other people's food though. That's not right.
>>
>>9366885
Why isn't this information included in the chart?!
>>
>>9366854
progy worked for some trip here but generally it's hon tier HRT (jk but it really does kinda suck)
>>
>>9366873
Not if you grind them up.
>>
>>9366902
I thought most here were using progy

tfw cant get a script ;_;
>>
>>9366896
I've taken over keeping up the chart lately. I didn't make it originally and I've only tweaked a few things. I'm being cautious about adding stuff. I'll take this under advisement. More opinions on the subject are welcome.
>>
>>9366873
Didn't you already get caught and kicked out?
>>
Are most of you taking sublingual e? Feel like I wasted an entire year tbhon.
>>
Well, this is enlightening if progy really isn't very good. I've been on it for around 6 months now and seen barely any breast growth.
If I switch to estrofem will my boobs start getting bigger or have I fucked myself at this stage?
>>
>>9366963
You're fine. There's still time for boob growth!
>>
So, if i'm a "femboy" that would rather experience no boob growth, should i switch from elleste to valerate pills? (But i'd still want the other changes, what are the problems with oral valerate besides boobs not growing?)
>>
>>9364366
I got my first set of cypro and estrofem in the mail today
I know I'm supposed to let the estrofem dissolve under my tongue, but what about the cypro? Am I supposed to swallow it or am I supposed to let it dissolve?
>>
>>9367049
Just swallow the cypro.
>>
>>9367049
Just swallow your daddy's cummies.
>>
>>9366604
Hi there. Is it hard getting scripts from doctors as a 21 yo? Will my insurance cover it? What am I risking by just going to a doctor for HRT hormones? Is it hard to get them? I need to start this shit already, so please, what should I do?
>>
>>9367049
you're supposed to put it in your butthole, like a plug.
>>
>>9367042
oral estrogen:
liver damage
less feminization
lower estrogen levels
more dangerous/more side effects

overall much worse than any other method

you'll still get boob growth too
>>
>>9367058
Ok, thank you
>>9367065
I don't think that has anti androgenic properties unfortunately
>>
>>9367077
>anti androgenic properties
Unironically it has tbhon.
>>
>>9367001
Not her but I've been on progynova for 3 months would switching give more growth or are we doomed to tiny conetits forever
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>>9367090
Boob growth should start like 3-4 months in and ends 2-3 years in HRT. So yeah defnitely enough time for both of you! May the boob gods favour you
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>>9367084
Really? I thought that was just a meme.
>>
has anyone tried cypro with raloxifene?
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>>9367117

Hope so. I've been so disappointed that my boobs are such a lackluster shape it'd be great to see them fill out more. This info should really be in the chart...
>>
>>9367226
the breast growth timeline is in there
but yeah someone should probably edit the estrogen bit! remove pills and put in patches/gels/sublingual
>>
>>9367306
Sublingual is already in there.
Patches and gels seem like a good idea.
There's already a huge wall of text though and it's getting crowded.
>>
>>9367608
The chart is creating hons by suggesting it's okay to take progy or spiro.
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>>9367608
I'm pretty sure most people agree that prog is bad and should only be taken if nothing else is available. We could remove it from the chart and replace it with patches/gels maybe?
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I only wondered why my boobs are stop growing and stay at half A cup size.
And I take a test again.
So it showed me that I have huge fucking peaks after taking 2mg of femostone. About 1.5-2 times highter than "normal" maximum concentration (like in woman at her about 6th week of pregnancy). Is this mean that something went wrong? I think I could kinda "burn" my receptors with that shit. Is this possible?
I'm on my full hrt program for about two years now and I have taken a low doses for two years before.
Now I decided to devide doses on two — 1mg 4times a day and I feel like something get better after that.

I'm worried, guys. What do?
>>
>>9367612
Progy isn't bad considering oral HRT is what basically every official perscription gives you and plenty of people have good results on it. Spiro though yeah, if you can get cypro prescribed there is no reason not to.
>>
6pm time to take my progy hehe kms please
>>
How soon can I know if my boobs are developing properly or if I'm headed toward conetits?
>>
>>9367724
If I ask for injections instead will they oblige?
>>
>>9367754
Aren't conetits just a spiro thing? cypro is meant to encourage progesterone production or something, right?
>>
>>9367767
Its possible. Its likely they'll have the doc give you the injection though, so you might need weekly visits. Can't hurt to ask!
>>
>>9367768
I thought increasing estrogen too quickly or having too high levels could cause it
>>
>>9367640
It could be left on but with a warning. It shouldn't be that bad once feminization is done.
>>9367724
Spiro is the only thing a lot of US docs prescribe. If you're self-medding you don't want to use it though.
>>9367768
Cypro is a progestin.
>>
>>9367774
That too, spiro can potentially harm development as well as going way too high on your E at the start.
>>
>>9367707
pls respond
>>
>>9367780
Yeah that could work. It's not awful but it's like worse than any other option.
>>
>>9364366
I am deciding to detransition after 7 years. I was once fairly passable and ended up force into a break for 3 years. I tried to start again and realized the trauma has made me severely anhedonic. I now view the struggle as too much.

I worry because I'm about to break my long time boyfriends and was soon to be husbands heart. I have been looked up to so much that I don't want people to take my detransition as "OH LOOK! SEE?! TRANS IS FAKE IF THEY DETRANSED!"

One day I'll hope to make enough money to open up transgender centers that would bus patients out. Does anyone else have any ideas of shit I could do to help the community barring some SJW bullshit?
>>
>>9367784
This sounds like a complete meme that gets repeated endlessly. I demand proofs.
>>
I actually have no idea if my breasts are developing right or if they're conetits. It's weird because they seem quite coney when warm because the areola are so puffy and protruded, but when the nipple gets firm in the cold they become perfect breast shape.

Is this normal at the early stages or are my tits going the way of the cone?
>>
>>9367826
>Does anyone else have any ideas of shit I could do
:D
>barring some SJW bullshit
just end it
>>
>>9367826
Buy us nembutal.
>>
>>9367826
Why forced into a break?
>>
>>9367833
>I demand proofs.
sure you do, I saved this from a couple threads ago
Why spiro is bad:
increases cortisol: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21095280, http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2008-2054
less breast growth: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/97/12/4422/2536439
plasma cortisol increases in humans and animals: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2940400/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21095280
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1797582
>>
>>9367845
I have several times actually. Been revived each time.
I'm tired of committing suicide only to have a medic or a friend or my freakish immune system purge poison. Sorry left equivalent of pol. I'm going to try and help PEOPLE. Not an agenda.

>>9367847
There are far better drugs. Do MDMA, LSD, Mescaline, Heroin, Meth. Inject Cocaine.

All of those feel better imho. Most of my policies will have to effect the generation after this any how.
>>
>>9367862
I know spiro is awful, I meant the too high on your e meme. I can't see why one shouldn't start on 4mg.
>>
>>9367868
>I'm going to try and help PEOPLE
that's an agenda doe
a vague one but still
>>
>>9367859
My doctor put me off for 3 years by constantly shifting appointments and then making excuses each time to re-up me. It depressed me so bad that I couldn't work. So I started selling meth very successfully, bought off the internet. Then found out I was severely allergic to all but 2 brands. Then got locked up. Moved to Oregon and got hormones much easier, but now I'm too damaged to care about it.
>>
>>9367882
Now you're just being a technical cunt and trust that no one likes those. My agenda is only to help people that need it. Regardless of political lines.
>>
>>9367896
>My agenda is only to help people that need it.
sounds like feminism desu
>>
>>9367888
Ouch. You really needed a new doctor back then. I assume you didn't get an orchi? At least without balls you can tough out being off hrt because you don't have to worry about testosterone messing you up.
>>
>>9367904
Crackpot SJWs and Pollacks every where.
>>
>>9367881
Some people think that you need to gradually increase your levels to properly sensitize your receptors or your body won't respond to it as efficiently and hurt feminization.
>>
>>9367915
t. radical centrist on the case (read: doing nothing, ever)
>>
>>9367913
Eh its too late for me. If I wasn't so spiritually strong I think I just would've kept trying to kill myself until it worked. After 4 times though? I'm done.

Also, only doctor in region I was in that did endocrinology, so it was what it was.

Yeah I've got balls, so in due time I'll be able to appear as a man.

Certainly sucked ass the first time. My boyfriend stuck with me unraveling and even saw him cry about me losing my beauty. Now I'm gonna leave the guy.

If anyone has any ideas that I may be ignorant to. Let me know. I'll check this until its dead.
>>
>>9367929
Where did this idea come from?
>>
Is there any notable difference between Estrofem and Elleste Solo other than price?
>>
>>9367740
Youll be ok. Just go between 4mg and 6mg or 8mg and you should see your blood tests come out fine. Just keep the dose to the levels that you need, its not the end of the world
>>
>>9367942
That overloading your estradiol receptors is bad. At least one person has posted here that their Endo said this.

Also in cisfemales estrogen increases very, very slowly over several years. The most conservative HRT regimen is still highly aggressive compared to natural puberty.
>>
>>9367930
You know what they say about idiots in large numbers... You keep thinking you're doing any thing but fermenting a divide. Unless you have any thing worth contributing? This is where I ignore you past whatever partisan reply you come up with.
>>
How much of a problem is being underweight? I've heard it's bad but why exactly?
If it's relevant, my BMI is about 16.5
>>
>>9367967
I would wager that it's better to start HRT underweight and then slowly gain weight to fill out those feminine fat deposits (anything over bmi 18 is fat though).
>>
>>9367868
I would advise against opioids and meth etc if you dont want to destroy yourself and also halt all and any transition. This is bad advice. Lsd, mdma, mescaline or dmt sure but hard drugs are hard for a reason. They force your body to do a fuckload of things. Not to mention your dopamine receptors will be fried forever. Making you an apathetic and severely manic, bipolar wreck that is never happy or comfortable. I mean ffs it was developed for war.
>>
>>9367967
Seen a few transgirls transition. The ones with the best results I've seen? Start off ranging from built to fat. Underweight seems to only result in a pretty face.
>>
>>9367986
Hey, if you're going to become a barbiturate addict? May as well have the addictions with less threatening withdrawals.
>>
>>9367986
Mentally ill people (and everyone else) should stay away from mind altering substances. Probably an especially horrible idea for someone with GD to take drugs that could trigger schizophrenia.
>>
>>9367612
>>9367640
>>9367608
>>9367306

I don't know about patches.

The two most common estrogen gels are: Estrogel, Sandrena.

Estrogel (sometimes Gynokadin) is a lot weaker than Sandrena but comes in a need tube so you can just carry it about.

I'm taking 6 doses of estrogel, twice a day. (Need to keep my levels high to fend off osteoporosis.)

Sandrena comes in little 1g sachets. 2 or 3 twice a day should give you great levels.
>>
>>9367066

Yes you will, no idea, you're risking nothing, probably not hard once you have an appointment, book one ASAP as the wait will send you mad.
>>
>>9367984
>(anything over bmi 18 is fat though).
No, under 18.5 is underweight. Saying BMI > 18 is fat is anorexic talk.
>>9367967
You'll never get boobs or feminine fat distribution if you don't have any fat. You're also at higher risk for osteoporosis. It can weaken your immune system too.
>>
>>9368010
If you believe in SSRI pills or anti-anxiety pills? You should probably shut the fuck up.
>>
>>9367939
>My boyfriend stuck with me unraveling and even saw him cry about me losing my beauty. Now I'm gonna leave the guy.
made me shed tears IRL and not because of the big prolactin-secreting tumor i have on my pituitary gland tbhon
>>
>>9368069
I don't trust those either, but keep sticking it to big pharma, dude 420 brah.
>>
>>9368093
Oh, then what would you do to treat depression or anxiety?
>>
>>9368110
2 parts apple cider vinegar 1 part honey

my gramdmom swears by it!!

cheers sharon
>>
>>9367939
please make obtaining hormones easier if you want to do something good. Here are some suggestions:

>open more informed consent centers
>make gatekeeping illegal (like gay conversion therapy)
>convince other countries that gatekeeping is harmful
>slowly start opening informed consent clinics in other countries
>final step (optional): put gatekeepers in jail for a long time

In my country transpeople are represented by a group of (mainly mtf) hons who believe transpeople should be gatekept for years before being given treatment. This is why pretty much every mtf I know is either self-medding or trying to leave the country.
>>
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I'm living in a third world country and i can't order from QHI or anything like that...My best option is to get pills in my country. I've been researching about the meds and prices, and got the list in pic related.

I have some questions:
>Are these prices fair?
>Am i fucked if i'll have like ~$350 for hrt, over the course of this year? (I can do something to afford the antiandrogen, the biggest problem is the estrogen).
>The cheapest options are valerate at 2mg and 4mg if i'm not wrong. Is valerate really bad?

My original plan was to pray and hope that 2mg sublingual would be enough for me, but based on all i read, it'll probably not be and the low E side effects/no feminization are probably going to make it unbearable (and i can't risk to fail at college, my parents are going to kick me out sooner if i do).

>I hope i didn't fuck up anything, specially at maths, i'm naturally bad with numbers and i couldn't sleep in the past 2 days
>btw, gels, patches and injections are too expensive or unavailable here
>>
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>>9368158
oh btw i just converted my country monetary values to USD idk if that's a good idea? but it may work
>>
>>9368125
You haven't lived a hard life have you?

>>9368140
>open more informed consent centers
I plant to do so.
>convince other countries that gatekeeping is harmful
I'll do what I can. Though I am particularly charismatic. I'm rebuilding from the ground up.

>slowly start opening informed consent clinics in other countries
I'd rather go the darkweb route and provide it for free for those of you in form bloc countries.
>>final step (optional): put gatekeepers in jail for a long time
I have my own plan for them.
>>
Anyone got a rough idea how much patches will cost before and after insurance? My endo wants me to use them instead of oral estradiol (which is good since i have liver problems already).
>>
>>9368171
>You haven't lived a hard life have you?

im a dude trying to be a grill lol so i dont neck myself
>>
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>>9368140
>In my country transpeople are represented by a group of (mainly mtf) hons who believe transpeople should be gatekept for years before being given treatment.
Those hons sound like they resemble pic related.
>>
>>9368355
omg please post part 2 or sauce

this is exactly how they sound (and look) like
>>
>>9368355

This is great. Any moar?
>>
>>9368158
What country, Anon?
>>
>>9368573
Brazilian republic of bananas
>>
>>9368422
>>9368438
You can download everything here:
https://archive.org/compress/transgirldiaries/formats=PNG&file=/transgirldiaries.zip
These comics were from the ch01-old directory
>>
>>9368696
Me too.

From when I did my research when choosing meds, sublingual seemed like the best value for money. Natifa is the generic name, I think. If you get lucky, less than 4 mg will get you good levels.

If pills don't work for you, patches are the other way. 100 mg patches are about as expensive as 2mg sublingual.

You might be able to get by on 12.5 mg of cypro after a few months on 25, which should help with cost.

Also, don't go for progynova.
>>
>>9368802
Oh nice to meet someone else from here!

I'm currently betting on my luck with 2mg/day of Estrell E (cheaper than natifa, and also micronized). After 1week, clear skin and nipple pain are good signs i guess, but i wonder if things will work in the long term.
Also looking foward to cut down cypro to 12.5mg. I've been on it for 5 months, i'll find a way to get a private blood test secretly and see if my T is nuked enough to do it.

Btw i've been ignoring patches because i thought it was an expensive option here, but like you said, the price is close to pills(for estradot 100mcg). If i need to switch to them, Am i supposed to apply 1 or 2 patches per week?

And thanks for the information, i really appreciate it.
>>
>>9368955
iirc private blood tests for just T and E are not super expensive, at least in my state. 5 months was enough for me, cypro acts pretty fast.

For estradot it's two patches a week, so you will use the box with 8 for 28 days. My levels have been good on 12.5 cypro and 100 mcg Estradot.

Good luck! Transitioning here is shit, but it can work. I somehow made it to 14 months, a name and change legal change and haven't been murdered yet, so
>>
>>9367862
So Ethinylestradiol only has a 0.1% greater risk of thromboembolism than bioidentical transdermal estradiol? (0.7% vs 0.6%)

Why not just take that?
>>
>>9367117
So if I've been taking shitty oral estrogen pills for 2-3 years and decide to switch to patches, have I already fucked myself over in terms of boob growth?
>>
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>>9364366
Is it a good idea to first take just my AA (cypro) for, say, a week, to get my T levels down, before I start taking my estrofem?
And the current recommendation is still to start with 2mg and then go up to 4mg estrofem after a month, right?
>>
>>9364366
I was on HRT for 6 years then I went off for 2. How bad is it for me to go back on?
>>
been on cypro 25mg for 8 months, should I cut dose in half? my T is 8 ng/dl. Also what would cutting the dose do other than saving me some money?
>>
>>9369157
Why did you go off by the way? Also you can't hurt anything by starting again
>>
>>9369187
Severe depression, laziness and a lot of self-doubt and confusion. I dropped my meds for other physical conditions too for a while, but it was so painful I went back on. My life was a slow falling apart for 2 years and now that I've ruined just about everything I want to piece it back together.
>>
does anyone have experience with vortioxetine or other antidepressants?

spending even more money on meds without even knowing if they will work seems hard to justify
>>
>>9364366
I juat heard about gels were a thing, can anyone tell me about them
>>
>>9369251
see
>>9368041
>>
>>9367944
Some people who have used both have said that elleste solo dissolves more quickly. As far as feminization goes they should be the same.
>>
>>9369529
That's about all the info I could find as well. Thanks. Went ahead and ordered elleste solo earlier today.
>>
>>9369150
I don't think it would make much of a difference as far as transitioning goes but it's still a good idea to start them apart in case you end up being allergic to one of them.

>>9369169
That should be low enough that you can cut your cypro in half. Apart from saving money you'll also reduce the risk of developing liver problems or depression.
>>
>>9369096

desu that was probably an acceptable way of stimulating what happens during actual puberty (when levels are below 100pg/ml for several years).

Don't worry about it, just check in if any major changes happen after 6 months (I expect they will). If not, consider upgrading to injections.

Many people get great results with patches.
>>
>>9369157
>>9369198

I've heard of longer gaps. I think you'd be more fucked if you stayed off, if the only reason you stopped was severe depression.
>>
So if progynova is apparently shit, is Elleste Solo any good as a replacement?
>>
>>9370218
yes elleste solo sublingual is much better
>>
>>9370228

Cool. I was checking the info page on it and it says it's normally taken orally. Can I take it sublingual anyway?
>>
>>9370243
>Can I take it sublingual anyway?
Yes, you bypass first-pass metabolism that way, which means better E1:E2 ratio, which helps feminization and is closer to cis women ratios.
>>
>>9367612
Is it genuinely worth switching to cypro if you're only on 50mg of spiro? 50mg of Spiro knocked my T down to ~20 after a few weeks, and has kept it there fine, but I see there's a large amount of distaste for Spiro still. I know that definitely in higher doses Spiro is pretty garbo, but as it stands I have like no side effects from my spiro. Should I still switch to cypro anyways? Also, is there really any way to do that readily with proper prescription based HRT? Does it really matter if I'm planning on a snip snip at some point in the next year or so anyways?
>>
>>9370281

What is your pg/ml estradiol level, anon?
>>
>>9368171
Hope you'll cope with detrans. Much love and good luck from another shit place. We always understand too late it was a shit place.
>>
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>>9366855
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>>9369624
>in case you end up being allergic to one of them
I think I might just kms if I'm allergic to HRT
How would I know if I'm allergic? I took my cypro last night and my heart beat was kind of fast although I think that's just nerves. I haven't taken my estrofem yet.
>>
>>9370510
that looks horribly high and spiky
cis women don't get constant levels of e either but theirs changes over a month, not every 24 hours right?
>>
>>9367724
>Progy isn't bad considering oral HRT is what basically every official perscription gives you and plenty of people have good results on it.

Something being "official prescription" doesn't make it good, and the people who have "good results" on it would have better results on something else.
>>
I have a family history of DVT (deep vein thrombosis), this can be onset by HRT. My mother (the family member who has it) got it from smoking for a long time and complications with hormones. Should I be concerned and should I be taking lifestyle steps towards preventing DVT onset? (I am pre-mones).
>>
>>9368158
AA is great, you should be able to even cut it down to 12.5 mg/day, to save more, and it should be effective enough. If you feel the effects are too weak, try upping to 3×12.5 mg over 2 days (i.e. 12.5 mg one day, 12.5 mg twice the other day) before going for 25 mg/day. Never go over 25 mg/day. I assume you have no possibility of getting a blood test.
Get the cheapest micronized estradiol, 1 mg twice daily buccally will work great. If your finances allow, you could consider upping to 3×1 mg after half a year, or starting with 1 mg daily for a month or two.

>>9369150
Yeah, that should be fine.
Longer periods of AA-only are not recommended, but they aren't that horrible either. They work for people with financial problems or who are undecided yet, to buy some time.
Also what >>9369624 said.
>>9370523
Rash, swelling in mouth and throat, problems with breathing, dizziness, fainting, anxiety, confusion, rapid pulse, nausea, diarrhea.
The more serious one usually stay for prolonged periods of time.
I wouldn't be worried about your fast pulse, it's very likely your nerves. Just keep an eye over the next days and doses you take.

>>9370281
You can try cypro at 12.5 mg daily.
In US you can't get it on prescription, so if you sick to spiro is up to you.

>>9370597
The red spikes are overlaid from the below graph, which is for pills. It's not that accurate, as it measures levels only after one pill, and the rest is simulated. Over the time of taking the same dose, the levels will accumulate, and the baseline will stay higher.
For injections, the levels reach highest concentration after few days, but overall stay higher and more smooth for quite long time. It could be compared to a short menstrual period maybe.
All in all spikes are hard to avoid and aren't that bad, but it's better to spread them over the day, by splitting pills, or just not taking them all at once.
>>
>>9370690
You can do a lot by not smoking, having a clean diet, and exercizing. Like, a whoooole lot. Especially when it comes to cardiovascular health.
>>
>>9370710
I smoke weed (but just weed), I binge eat and I burn my 2000 calories a day.
I know I could do more, but I have mental health issues that make me struggle with organisation.
>>
>>9370716
Doing 30 minutes of exercise at least 3 times a week (ideally every day) and eating fruits and vegetables every day should help very very much for cardio health. Also not being overweight is helpful.
>>
>>9370751
Thanks, that really helps :)
>>
>>9370709
Allergy anon here
Should I only be doing 25 mg of cypro? My pills are 50mg and the OP image says that can lead to a faster drop.
>>
>>9370770
Yeah, 50 mg is really an overkill.
I started with cypro 25 mg only and after two weeks my T went from very high to below male levels.
After a month on 25 mg cypro + 50 mg bica EOD + 2 mg E2 bucally it dropped to low female levels with FAI at 1%. Even such low dose of cypro was able to negate T-increasing effects of bica and nuke my T.

Now I'm on 12.5 mg cypro + 50 mg bica + 2×2 mg E2 buccally daily. I'm afraid it might not be as good as previous doses. I'm going to take a blood test on Friday, so… I might finally report on effects of mixing cypro with bica on both of these doses.
>>
Is it possible for boobs to start growing again after 10 years on HRT? I've recently changed my diet a bit and my boobs hurt again like when I was 17 and I just started also they appear slightly bigger? At least my bra makes it seem that way. I have been eating more daily fats and doing more exercise to get more /fit/ maybe that contributes to it? This has been for like a month or so now.
>>
>>9370803
Why do you take bica in that specific case?
>>
>>9370815
I was worried about cypro giving me too high strain on liver before starting, so I thought about taking it at low doses, around 12.5 mg, while taking bica as a supportive AA. Turns out cypro works really great at 25 mg even for near top male T levels.
I also didn't want my dick to die, too, but recently I have been thinking how uncomfortable it is in girly clothes, and started considering SRS as a future goal (where previously it was something I never wanted to get).
So, right now I guess I'm burning through my bica stash.
>>
>>9370803
Is taking the pills buccally more effective than sublingual? It takes forever to dissolve
>>
>>9370842
Should be about the same, it's just easier and a bit slower. You can talk easily buccally.
>>
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>>9370842
I grind the pill against my teeth to remove the coating, put it in my upper lip, and forget about it.
Been taking buccally since day one, tried sublingual once and it sucked, the mouth was getting full of saliva and it was difficult to keep the pill under the tongue. Whatever medicine gets dissolved in saliva, it makes it easier to slip out from under the tongue and get swallowed (which makes me think it absorbs worse than buccal). Sure, buccal is slower, but it also doesn't stop you from talking, drinking nor eating.
I'm less than two months in and I already have ~AA cup (7 cm underbust to bust difference). I'm kind of worried because I don't want to end up with huge breasts.
>>
What's a good place to put patches?

I know the little booklet says to put them on the lower abdomen, just above the waistline, but I feel like that's a part of the body that moves and folds an awful lot. I'd prefer to have patches on an area of skin that's more "stable" for lack of a better word. Would the lower back work?
>>
I'm at 5 months and my mustache doesn't grow as before it grows really slow but I've noticed the shadow doesn't go away I believe this is not a good signal Will I be stuck with this green shadow if I don't laser it away? I'm trying to exfoliate it now
>>
>>9370917
HRT doesn't effect the presence of facial hair. It's permanent unless you get electrolysis.
>>
>>9370923
In my experience, being on HRT makes it grow more slowly and not nearly as dark.

I still have a visible shadow without makeup though (I could kick myself for not starting at 18) and will need to get either electro or laser eventually.
>>
>>9370923

it definately affects mine I could go days without plucking now and some of them are getting whiter yet the shadow makes me so dysphoric I'm hoping for a drastic reduce on the shadow only plucking and exfoliating
>>
>>9370933
Incidentally this is why trans women are usually advised to start laser or electrolysis (but especially laser) BEFORE starting HRT, since the reduction of hair actually makes those procedures more difficult. D'oh!
>>
>>9370958
Plucking can encourage ingrown hairs, as well as making laser and electrolysis less effective.
>>
>>9370967
>>9370970

This is my main concern after 5 month of hrt and plucking I wonder how hard would it be for laser to be effective
>>
>>9370894
I'm having trouble with this too. Some people say buttocks but my butt sweats a lot and then the patch would rub on my underwear.
>>
Does QHI sell patches?
>>
How do Estrofem and Elleste Solo differ?
>>
What is the equivalent injection dose to 2mg oral/ sub or 100ug patch?
>>
Kind of a weird question.. are HRT meds excreted in semen? I like to go down on my gf but I don't want to get exposed to something that will throw my body's chemistry in another direction. She takes oral estradiol and spiro.
>>
Okay, so I'm going to try to salvage my breast growth now after apparently doing nearly everything wrong from day 1. Went high on dosages way too early and I've been on progy as my oestrogen source (Cypro for AA but that's fine).

Going to switch to sublingual estrofem but I wonder if I'll have a better chance of rescuing myself if I go down to a lower dosage or whether I should stay high now that I've been there for a few months?

For reference, I've been on HRT for approximately 6 months total. Months 1-2 I was on 2mg a day, then by month 3 I had quickly upped it to 4mg and then to 6mg before month 4. For one month (5,I think) I went up to 8mg but then dropped it back to 6mg.

Any helpful advice beyond offing myself would be grand...
>>
>>9371551
Have you checked your levels?
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>>9371563

Yeah, most recently in November.

Serum Testosterone (XE2dr): <0.7 nmol/L
Serum Oestradiol (4465): 745 pmol/L
Serum Prolactin (XaELX): 786 mu/L
Serum FSH (XM0lx): 0.1 u/L
Serum LH (XM0lv): 0.1 u/L
>>
Really, it just looks like Elleste Solo and Estrofem are exactly the same and only differ in price, so why do so many prefer the latter when it's so expensive?
>>
>>9371551
Progy being bad is a meme.
Your body will convert the estrone to estradiol/vice versa as it needs it. It's a reversible reaction.

You didn't really do anything wrong til month 4, just go back down to 4mg.
>>
>>9371596
Most people don't know what Elleste Solo is I guess. They are exactly the same, apart from maybe the coating though.
>>
>>9371611

And that Elleste Solo sounds like if Harrison Ford transitioned.
>>
>>9371621
very good, have an upvote.
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>>9371607
>just go back down to 4mg.
for how long should one stay at 4 typically? I know serum concentrations play a role but I'm just wondering about what the recommended average is.
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>>9371639
Its more about levels than dosage.
Doesn't matter if you need to take 2mg or 10mg, what matters is being around 200-250 pg/ml
>>
>>9371621
kek

>>9371646
You shouldn't really be that high before at least one year into HRT, and even later than that.
>>
>>9371406
No. Maybe you can send them an email and ask if they can start selling it.
>>9371458
Brand, packaging, and filler ingredients (irrelevant unless you are allergic to some).
>>9371596
Because they don't know any better.
>>9371621
lol

>>9371536
No, you are fine.
>>
>>9369243
I don't have experience with vortioxetine in particular but in the past I used various antidepressants. They helped to a certain extent in stabilizing my mood and making me more functional. Although they made the lows less bad they also muted my ability to feel joy and happiness. They weren't happy pills, more like emotional range restriction pills.
Eventually I was able to stop using them through the use of cognitive-behavioral therapy and techniques I used on my own.
>>
>>9371582
>745 pmol/L

OK so that's a bit above 200pg/ml...Good levels, if you go a bit higher then your estrogen should be high enough to suppress your T by itself.

Your T is kinda oversupressed. Typical with cypro (sometimes it drops to 0).
>>
>>9370917

Yep you have to laser, HRT alone will not solve this problem ever.
>>
>>9370243
I think pretty much all the hemihydrate pills work sublingually because they have to be micronized to work if swallowed. The micronization also allows them to be taken sublingually. The fillers and coatings vary by manufacturer though, so some dissolve better than others.
>>9370281
If you're only going to be on spiro for a short time at the low dose you're on it probably won't be too bad if you stay on it. Cypro is better though.
>>9370510
The injection curve resembles the shape of the sublingual curve, just stretched way out over time. The oral valerate curve looks like the dropoff is even worse than for sublingual. If progynova is this bad that might partly explain why it's shit.
>>9370690
Yes, do what you can to reduce your risk. You should probably use patches, gels, or injections.
>>9370842
I don't normally have bleeding gums but buccal made my gums bleed where the pill was. I'm getting high levels on sublingual and I've gotten good at dissolving the pills quickly so I'm sticking with that.
>>9370917
Upper lip shadow can be hard to get rid of. It's not uncommon for women to have one. I have some really tiny dark vellus hairs that are almost impossible to see even with a 15x magnifying mirror that create a slight shadowing. Very frustrating because the terminal hairs are all gone.
>>9371406
Like the other anon said they do not. Inhouse Pharmacy does.
>>9371607
The body doesn't need estrone though and estrone can get converted into estriol instead of estradiol. It's also far less potent than estradiol, and much of it's low potency is thought to be due to conversion to estradiol already.
We do need more research on the best way to optimize breast growth though.
>>
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>>9364366
can someone here redpill me on injections and estrofem?
I've been taking generic estradoil all my life and haven't experienced much feminization in the chest, I know thats common but I hear the inverse lately compared to starting, about how injections that once where considered dangerous are now being touted as something to switch too.

In addition the estrofem seems strange as well, wouldn't you want regular dosage since the spike wouldn't last as long?
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>>9371788

At the time I was on high cypro so that'll be why, also I was on 8mg of progy at that stage so not sure if I did bad or not...

I'm just experiencing what I think is lackluster breast development at the moment, so I'm worried I maybe need to adjust things. That being said though my breasts are weird. Posted before but they seem somewhat cone shaped when warm, and become boob perfection when cold as the nipple changes.

I assumed this to be because of progy + high dosages, but maybe they're developing fine and I'm just being paranoid...
>>
>>9371861
When you say "all my life" what do you mean exactly? Like what age did you start and how long have you been on it? Have you taken it sublingually the whole time?
When you talk about "regular dosage" do you mean swallowing? Levels are higher on sublingual at all times compared to oral even after the spike goes down. You also don't involve the liver as much. You should get a better estradiol:estrone ratio too sublingually.
>>9371890
I believe you said you've been on HRT only 6 months. You have a lot of time left for development.
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>>9371922
I normally just swallow but occasionally for a few months I sublingualed, I've been on hrt for about 7 years, need a new perscription and considering my options. had trouble keeping my t down but now is ... no longer issue.

I want to know about if i should take injections and none of your post talks about injections, and the spreadsheets with anime girls said stuff about estrofem being better results with feminising even though it spikes, I'd like to know the logic behind it.
>>
>>9361420
>You might be getting night sweats from low hormone levels. I think you said you've been on hrt 2 weeks? It might get better as you adjust and it should also get better when you increase your E dose. Two weeks is a bit soon to go higher though.
Yeah, it's a night sweat, I stopped sleeping with the really thick blanket, it was colder, but about two hours before my E I once again had a sudden raise in body heat and a sweat for two nights in a row. I also tried sleeping earlier to combat the insomnia I seem to have developed, but all that did was wake me up earlier; the insomnia is the worst tbhon because I nearly fell asleep at my desk at work during the mid-afternoon yesterday and today as I don't move much (software developer), and the area under my eyes is a fair bit darker now as a result. I lowered my cypro from 50mg to 25mg because I think I over-suppressed my T, (I really doubt it was very high initially anyway) within the first two days my random erections completely stopped and my sex drive vanished with it, then the insomnia and night sweats started at the same time; I went from sleeping 8-10 hours a night to 6 hours, hopefully it will get a bit better on 25mg. I just want to go back to sleeping properly again.
>>
>>9371942
You've been on hrt for 7 years, so you're not likely to be able to get much more breast growth.
Sublingual is better than swallowing because you get a much higher average level of estradiol. Also you get higher levels even after the spike wears off. If you take 4 mg sublingually, 2 mg twice a day, you'll have higher levels after 12 hours than if you swallowed the pills.
Sublingual also doesn't involve the liver as much. Putting less strain on your liver is always a good thing. Since the liver makes IGF-1, which is important for breast growth, putting less stress on the liver could be good for IGF-1 production. Also sublingual has a lower risk of blood clots, and you should have lower estrone levels.
I personally don't talk about injections much because I've never used them and I haven't put much time into studying them. Other people know more about them. They're supposed to be the best of all, though how much better than patches and gels they are I'm not sure, or if it's worth the trouble of dealing with needles.
fwiw I got the best breast growth on patches.
>>
>>9372014
25 should do a good job of suppressing T. You might want to try going to 12.5 if you still have trouble on 25.
>>
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how can I get a mustache like pic related if I'm on HRT?
Asking completely unironically
could something like minoxidil help? I don't really grow much anymore
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>>9372113
That is an unusual question to ask. Be careful what you wish for, but I suppose you could try slathering on minoxidil. Getting a full mustache might be hard though.
>>
>>9372113
T should fill it out pretty naturally without any help. If you want to go a step further after a few years, minoxidil might help thicken some of the lighter hairs, but don't expect it to be miracle growth serum or something.
>>
>>9372218
I think people are starting to catch on so I just want to look stereotypically masc
my patchy pseudo mustache growth makes me dysphoric though
also my T levels are in the gutter
maybe I could get a fake mustache like FtM's do
>>
>>9372113
>>9372278
Upon re-reading that, I have to check, you are FtM right? I didn't read the "anymore" part until afterwards... This is a very strange question otherwise.
>>
>>9372286
nah i'm mtf
this explains it better >>9372285
>>
>>9372285
>>9372303
>my patchy pseudo mustache growth makes me dysphoric though
Anon, you're being stupid, don't try to grow it back. Wear a fake or something if you must.
>>
>>9372303
Like the other anon says you should probably go with fake as long as it doesn't look stupid. If you do try minoxidil please report back on the results just to satisfy my curiosity, not that I'd ever try anything like that.
I am using minoxidil on my hairline and I'm getting a lot of hair growth after 1 1/2 months. I even got a little bit of growth where I don't want it. The temples are coming in fast, but it's slower going at the crest of the hairline. My skin is even starting to look like pasty scalp skin where the hair is growing in.
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>>9372026
anyone else want to fill the gaps on this guy? I really could use some info about this stuff before my perscription expires
>>
>>9372520
>fill the gaps on this guy
>best breast growth on patches
What did she mean by this? There's not much left to say tbhon, they covered the topic pretty well. Is there anything in particular you feel they missed out?
>>
Do you still need to use bitcoin when ordering from Inhouse?
>>
>>9372689
E-check works fine
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>>9372558
I think what is wanted is more info on injections. I didn't get into that because I'm not that knowledgeable about them.
>>
How the heck are you guys getting syringes if you're self-medding with injections?
>>
>>9371729
>No, you are fine.
thanks, fren.
>>
>>9372757
I ordered some from allegromedical. I don't do injections though because right after my syringes arrived, the Inhouse injections got discontinued
>>
If I have been on hrt for 13 months, but only been within target range for less than 7, how should I count that compared to the timeline in the OP?
>>
My gf is a tranny transitioning. she only takes her pills and is really concerned about working on her transition more.

what's something I could give her for her birthday?
>>
>>9372946

Money and makeup to help with transition. Make sure to buy her some jewellery too.
>>
Is there anything decently effective for male-pattern baldness if its not too bad? That would regrow the hair and stuff?
>>
>>9372976
>HRT
>Fina/Duta
>Minoxidil
They're all pretty damn effective tbhon, so long as your head isn't smooth as a baby's bottom.
>>
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Anyone else feeling hungry as fuck on hrt?

Before starting i could do 24hr fasting easily, i'd literally only eat to avoid death. I was pretty fat (like 190lbs) until 16, where i started to dont give a fuck about eating bc i was depressed. I managed to come down to 143lbs now that i'm 18, but i still have lots of belly fat and i'm not done losing it i, but i'm feeling deadly hungry lately.
Could it be related to boob growth, even if i'm only month on E? My nipples hurt like hell, but shouldn't my body work with my belly fat or something like that?
>>
>>9372940
The timeline leans conservative. Some mtfs get faster changes, though some sadly do worse. I don't think your slow start is necessarily bad, since raising levels too quickly can hurt breast growth. I would just compare your own progress with the timeline and adjust accordingly.
>>9372976
Finasteride/dutasteride help. Minoxidil helps too.
>>
>>9373022
I did start gaining weight on hrt. I'm not sure I got hungrier but controlling my weight has been a lot more difficult.
I've lost a lot of weight in the last 8 months and I'm fighting hunger all the time. I'm behind schedule because of that. I should be done by now. I'll be glad when I can start eating more normally again, though avoiding overeating will still be a struggle.
HRT does help with belly fat, but because you were up to 190 lbs, you still have a lot of fat cells left over from then. They may have shrunk, but they're still there. Fat cell turnover takes years.
>>
>>9373021
So, can I take all of that at once or is more of a pick either fina or duta or minoxidil type thing?
>>
>>9373074
Depends, do you just want to combat MPB or are you transitioning/femboying? If you're just combating MPB then Fina/Duta + Minoxidil is your best bet.
>>
>>9372973
Anything besides makeup and jewelry? Any product or medication that might help her? She doesn't wear makeup yet.. I already gave her some clothes.
>>9372976
As others have said, Dutasteride and Finasteride. Take that shit, the earlier you start the better. Don't expect lots of regrowth. If you are lucky and get it, it'll take months atleast. Take it now because if you're lucky, in a few years a cure will be out, and you'll have saved as much hair as you can and may only need a transplant or two to get a nice hairline.

t. cis guy
>>
>>9373086
No, not just combat MPB, I want to femboy/trap mode, like, take HRT but still live as a boy. I don't think I'm a woman, I just want to look cuter. But could I expect reasonable results starting at 26 and having some balding happening already?
>>
>>9373107
Yeah, loads of people get regrowth from that routine, even if they're not going the full HRT route. If you go bica + (fina/duta) + ralox + minoxidil, and only have a little bit of hair loss in the last few years, it should reverse it almost completely with enough time.
>>
>>9373141
Thanks, and why would you recommend bica specifically over something like spiro? Because it has something to do with DHT?
>>
>>9373106
You have the clothes covered. Skin care and hair care products are a possibility. Maybe if you could spring for some high-end, more expensive products that she wouldn't normally buy herself that might work. I know I like to experiment with different things and it would be fun to try something more expensive that I wouldn't normally buy.
Buying a nice, high-quality epilator is another possibility.
>>
>>9373171
Different anon, but spiro just generally sucks and will leave you hormone-starved without estradiol. Bica is good because excess testosterone will aromatize to estradiol, so you won't be hormone-starved if you're not taking estradiol. There's a good chance you'll need fina or duta to prevent and reverse hair loss, especially if you only go with 25 mg/day of bica. Ralox helps prevent boob growth and also protects against osteoporosis. Bica is also less likely to kill your dick and sterilize you than other AAs. Cypro will sterilize you. Spiro is less certain but the probably of at least some permanent fertility impairment is high I think.
>>
>>9373231
epilator is a great idea.. kinda don't want to break the bank but guess it makes the most sense
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>>9373279
This site compares epilators pretty well tbhon.
http://asmoothlife.com/
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>>9373304
wow, thank you anon
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>>9373274

Hormone starvation is a mean business.
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>>9373022

Yeah estrogen has made me a hungry beast.
>>
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Currently taking Bicalutamide and Raloxifene. Has anyone been on that combo for a while and noticed any significant feminizing effects? If you have, what exactly were they and what was your dosage for the bical? I realize that there isn't a common consensus on its effectiveness, but I'm still curious, since it's costing me so much.
>>
>>9373485
This is just me but I take bica 50 mg every other day and initially 4mg progy a day and noticed breast buds developing really quickly and switched over from progy to ralox and suddenly my libido and swimmers have come back
>>
>>9372558
I wanted to know about injections and why spiking instead of gradual medication is supposed to be more desirable.
>>
>>9373022
Your body is essentially going through a second, female puberty. You need calories to fuel it, so you will feel hungry.
Gaining some weight (not a lot, just some) while on HRT (unless you're already fat) is optimal anyway, because it will more likely appear in more female areas like your butt and thighs.
>>
>>9373733
Spiking is not desirable in and of itself. It's just that swallowing gives you the lowest levels and you have issues with liver involvement. We split sublingual doses because it helps smooth out the spikes a bit.
Injections give reliably high levels and bypass the liver. It would be better if they spiked less and lasted longer but you take what you can get.
Anything, and I mean anything, is better than swallowing pills. Progynova is the closest thing to not being too bad for oral estradiol it's still not as good. If it weren't so cheap there'd be no little reason to use it. Swallowing hemihydrate tablets is just pitiful.
>>
>>9373783
>spiking isnt good
then why is estrofem recommended in the anime girl guide?
>>
>>9373797
I said it's not desirable, but that doesn't mean it's bad per se. It's just not optimal. Don't get so hung up on the spiking. It's not that important.
>>
I've been on 4mg progy and 25mg cypro for a year now and will be getting a blood test soon. If my estrogen levels measure below female levels should I up my progy dose to 6mg or switch to 4mg Estelle/Estrofem?
>>
>>9373866
How are your breasts coming along? Are you satisfied with your progress? If not then maybe try Elleste Solo or Estrofem.
>>
>>9373783
>Spiking is not desirable in and of itself
From what I can tell:
>injections give huge spikes
>injections are considered the best e method
???
I'm afraid that injecting will ruin my boob growth by giving me really high e levels too soon.

Also do patches and gels give more consistent e levels? Isn't the estrogen from them slowly absorbed into the bloodstream or am I wrong?
>>
>>9373733

You have to time the injections each five days, this means spiking is not so bad.
>>
>>9373913
Patches are incredibly consistent yes. There is some level of spike as the E drops as the days go on, but you can try counteracting it. Patches typically get replaced every 3.5 days and you have 2 on at once. So if you just replaced one of them every 2 days it'll be quite level although a bit more of a hassle
>>
>>9373927
So why do people here say injections are better than patches? Because the e is absorbed in the blood more easily?

I just want to understand why everyone loves injections so much here
>>
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>>9373913
Here's a graph for Climara patches. These are 7 day patches. If you're worried about spiking then yes, go with patches or gels. Then you don't have to deal with needles either.
I believe the issue for breast growth is sustained high levels too soon. The idea is to ramp up, not go with a full dose from day one.
>>
>>9373960
Probably for the high levels you can get. In that Climara graph you'd need a couple Climara 100 patches to get above 100 pg/mL. Personally injections don't interest me. I use sublingual because it's cheap, but otherwise I'd use gels.
>>
>>9373840
>Its not optimal
>dont ask questions
why are you such a faggot? why is the non optimal drug being recommended if you're saying its not optimal?
>>
>>9374094
Because it's *cheap* for one thing. I get a 3 month supply for $20, that's why I use sublingual. There's also convenience and personal preferences involved. Availability can be a concern too. QHI doesn't even sell injections, patches or gels, just pills. What is optimal is different for every person. That's why there's no one single recommendation.
>>
Same guy from earlier about going trap/cuteboy mode and MPB - should I go with finasteride or dutasteride? what's the difference? What's better?
>>
>>9374169
Dutasteride is more effective
>>
>>9374141
>because its cheap
illiterate much?
the spiking option is also the more expensive option.
>>
>>9374141
also how much are you taking that a 3 month supply is 20$
>>
>>9374194
4 mg/day estradiol - 2 x 2 mg
>>
>>9373910
I'm flat.
>>
>>9374244
If you're referring to Progynova then that's not sublingual.
>>
>>9374333
different anon
If you've been on HRT for a whole year and you're still flat, maybe it's genetics?
What are the cis women in your family like, breast wise?
>>
>>9374333
>>9374365
Oh, also, how old are you?
As a general rule mtfs can expect to be about a cup size below whatever their close female relatives have, although that depends on starting age. If your family has smaller breasts it's not unreasonable for you to not get much breast growth at all.
>>
>>9374357
No, it's generic micronized estradiol I get from a pharmacy. It's not a valerate.
>>
>>9374333
I'd switch to Elleste or Estrofem. Unfortunately you seem to be another datapoint in favor of the proposition that progynova is bad for breast growth.
>>
>>9374365
>>9374378
24, family tends towards large chested

>>9374400
tfw wasted a year
>>
Does 2 mg progynova works better than nothing or i'm wasting my money? i can't afford 4 mg a month.
>>
This thread has been making me think a lot about the status of the infographic. I only started OPing recently because the thread was falling off the board and I wanted to keep it going. I didn't create the infographic and didn't intend to be responsible for it.
In this thread I've seen a lot of people unhappy with the infographic and wanting major substantive changes to be made. I'm not comfortable taking on that responsibility. I'm thinking of doing one of three things.
1. Just quit. Anyone can make a new thread. So I could quit and see who picks up the ball.
2. Link to, copypasta from, or summarize a third party source that I'm not responsible for.
3. Totally rework the infographic. It would be purely descriptive avoiding prescriptive language saying what you should or should not do. It would just present sourced information laying out what drugs are available, how they're typically used, and some information about the effects.
If someone wants to take over please do.
>>
>>9375185
Yes its something
>>
renting out a PO box to avoid getting caught / beat by parents for doing DIY. Any recommendations on how big of a box to get? Would the smallest / cheapest one be fine?
>>
Question ladies!

Does QHI offer shipping tracking to burgerland? I didn't realize how cheap their progynova was and I gotta order it stealthily and know exactly when it's gonna show up. Also do they have a preference of shipper?

On a final note I have been trying to get my account recovery working with coinbase and lel holy fuck it WILL NOT recognize my face at all. It could be because my hair is 4 times longer and no facial hair but I'm gonna pretend my face is just prettier lmao. Does not compute.
>>
>>9375225
The infographic is fine. More is simply not possible because everything varies by country and state. Don't beat yourself up it's thanks to you and the contributors that any of us had a fighting chance to begin with.
Actually thats a good idea. Someone could set up a wiki style database with info from all meds and countries. Then we could just add a link on the OP.
>>
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>DIY for 11 months (4x50mg spiro + 2x2mg progynova)
>Get on scripts at 11 months DIY (1x50mg cypro + 2 sandrena gel).

How hard did I fuck up the DIY part? I'm having my first blood test this month at 13 months HRT and these memes about progynova being shit are worrying me. I didn't really look up any other options because I was really patient and didn't know how good gels were.
>>
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Is anyone on the new wockhardt cypro that qhi sends out? I think there's something wrong with it
My t levels were <0.2 on 25 mg on the last brand of cypro and now I'm getting erections almost every time I wake up, though they only last about 20 seconds. Body hair seems to be growing faster but that may be placebo.
I'm unable to get a blood test right now and I was wondering if anyone else came accross this issue
Pic related is what the new box looks like
>>
Has qhi started processing orders for anyone here after the christmas + new year break they took?
I made my order on the 15th of december but they took their time and by the beginning of the break they announced they would take nothing has been processed for me. Now that they are back after the break though, i still see my order just sitting there untouched since it has been made.
Am i worrying too much, should i just keep waiting?
>>
>>9375934
How are your boobs doing? I'm still evaluating the evidence but I'm seeing a lot anons say they get shit boob growth on progy. So are you happy with your boobs so far? Do they seem like they're starting to grow more after you started on gels?
The other problem is that you were using spiro and the evidence seems clearer that that is bad for boobs.
>>
>>9375962

Order processing for them stopped on 19th Dec, and in my experience in normally takes them a minimum of 5 days.

If you haven't had an update by the end of next week then email them asking when you can expect it to be dispatched.
>>
Is it worth spacing out when I take my AA and E? So should I wait, say, and hour after taking the AA before having my E or can I have the E immediately after taking my AA?
>>
>>9375986
Doesn't matter.
>>
>>9375966
I was A cups by the end of 11 months. I went to AA's after around 2 weeks of scripts and I'm almost B cups now (more accurately, I am 12A now).

I definitely think the sandrena gel + cypro is helping breast growth in the short time I've been taking them. They also filled out more on my script meds and stopped being coneybois.
>>
>>9376009
I'll count you in the progynova and spiro = bad for boobs column.
>>
Are implants (subdermal pellets) actually any good compared to injections / patches or are they just a meme?
>>
>>9373279
I have Philips Satinelle HP6423. The other head is for shaving and is a blessing for a transgirl who is pre-laser (or during treatment). It can also be used to trim pubic hair.

Also avoid any home-use "laser". These things are IPL, they can cause hair to stop growing for few weeks, but once you stop treatment, the hair will grow thicker and stronger. Not to mention the home things can't be used on face.
If you want laser, go to a professional, where they use a real laser (not an IPL, inquiry about that before paying for anything).

>>9373304
The list really isn't comprehensive, and is full of reflinks.
I would treat it as an advertisement, not honest advice.

>>9375362
Yes (I guess, I'm not sure how big is the smallest). If it can fit a big envelope, and is ~10 cm high, then it's fine for pills. Think of something book sized.

>>9375790
In EU they ship with SwissPost. You can select that the package needs to be confirmed with signature. No idea about tracking, they don't offer it as a checkbox, but somewhere on their page it says you can ask for package to be tracked, if I recall correctly.

>>9376161
Yeah, they last longer, and are mostly the same substance as injections.
>>
>>9375362
If you're in the US then the post office will still keep your packages if they don't fit in your PO box for a while before sending them back. You should call and ask your local post office about it.
>>
>>9375790
Their Elleste Solo is a very inexpensive version of Estrofem. Consider it!
>>
I am 2 Months into HRT using Gynokadin, a German brand of Estradiol gel. I am amazed about the outcome so far but my doctor never actually told me where to apply the gel.
Now my best friend also went on HRT and was told to only apply the gel to her chest. Is that even safe or should I do that aswell?

Also I'm not sure about her dosages.
I'm on 2,25mg E
She's on 10mg E
Yes, we both just started.
>>
>>9373967
Do you have this for Estradot/ Vivelle?
>>
>>9376364
I'm pretty sure that it's important to NOT apply patches to the chest because it increases the breast cancer risk. The same should apply to gels. But then again why don't you ask your doctor? More reliable than 4chan for sure!
>>
>>9376402
AFAIK that's for cis women. Apparently not having a second X chromosome makes you close to immune to breast cancer.
>>
So, after a month of hrt, i developed some hard thingie under my nipple. As i know it happens when breasts start to grow. Will they soften up or are they to stay?
>>
>>9376364
rub it on your ass
>>
>>9376439
They will become soft but firm. Hope your name isn't Ryan.
>>
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>>9376445
wtf ryan do you have bobs now
>>
>>9376472
>tfw I have boobs now
At least I'm not named Ryan.
>>
Also how long does conetits stay, or are they forever unless i go for a surgery?
>>
>>9376494
They're temporary if you're on cypro.
>>
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>>9376484
>>
Can Cypro cause high prolactin levels?
>>
People who cut their dose to 12.5mg Cypro how much did your T levels change if at all?
>>
>>9376161

never heard of someone using these.
>>
>>9376629
I believe mine was around 19 ng/dl, but I'm away from home and can't check.

T on 50mg was down to 8 so I kept cutting it down and it hasn't been enough of an increase to concern me.
>>
>>9376655
I heard of a hon using these, apparently they give really constant and stable e levels like with patches but better.
>>
>>9367844
This is me too. Please tttt, tell my my titties are okay :(
>>
>>9376343
I was gonna do that cause I take cypro and drink alcohol probably more than I should so progy isn't an amazing idea, however I cannot grow breasts, no way. So progy is probably the best in for that in conjunction with the ralox I take. I would love to get those E levels with elleste doe
>>
>>9367844
same tbhon
>>
>>9367844
thissssssss
the shape is round but the weird areola makes it look like a round hill with a cone on it
>>
Why do high level of stradiols feels so good? Like it hit some spot in the brain and you feel like a real girl sometimes this thing it's powerful
>>
>>9377183
Placebo
>>
>>9377215

no it's not it happens sometimes at random moments it's not always I don't even know if it's because high levels but when it hits you feel like hugging anyone and telling him good things about her/him you know those kind of sweet things
>>
>>9377270
I dunno if that's the estrogen, more like your personality.
>>
Just ordered 4 boxes of Elleste Solo to replace my supply of progy. Thanks for looking out, bros.
>>
>>9377270
Shhhhhh

Estradiol levels at 300 is all we need


Toppest of keks brb mainlining 1500
>>
Anyone here tried dienogest instead of cypro? My endo prescribed it cause it's supposedly better at shutting down FSH & LH production but i've read it's got around 40% the antiandrogenic properties that cypro has.
She also prescribed 2mg estradiol valerate and finasteride. I'm feeling better but not seeing any major changes.
2 months in btw
>>
>>9374244
okay from which shop? i dont see any that offers something decent like that.
>>
>>9377183
cause estrogen is serotogenic
genetic women have elevated on high E and feel bad on lows too
>>
>>9375852
the estrogen section needs reworked. it offers no explanation for why spiking is desirable. the more expensive medicine spikes so it has to have a benefit of some kind to be on the list
>>
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>4 months HRT
>just slight some moobs and pointy nips
Should I be worried or is it normal at that stage?
>>
>>9377526

A bit early to be too worried if you've got buds under there.

What are you using for your oestrogen and how much are you taking per day?
>>
>>9377526

Age?
>>
>>9377625
Progy, 4mg.
>>9377638
About to be 22.
>>
>>9377645

Like I said it's a bit early to know for sure, but I'd recommend switching to a better source of oestrogen anyway. As we seem to have established in this thread progy is simply not as good as your other options, and a lot of people seem to be reporting bad breast growth on it.
>>
>>9377625
>A bit early to be too worried if you've got buds under there
>4 months
kek
>>
>>9377665

Some people doesn't nuke T this early so it makes sense she hasn't been into major changes if that's the case
>>
>>9376364
Definitely avoid the breast area. Butt, abdomen, hips, legs, arms, shoulders should all work. It's probably a good idea to vary the spot where you apply it.
>>
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>>9376375
Your wish is my command.
>>
>>9377645
Elleste Solo, now.
>>
>>9377735
>Elleste Solo
Don't have it in my country, but I'll switch to gels I think.
>>
>>9377694
it's not about nuking T, it's about hormone imbalance, enough E to wreak havoc
that's why pubescent boys/bodybuilders full of T sometimes develop gyno
>>
So are girl pills practically guaranteed to stop male pattern baldness, or is it worth taking additional stuff as well?
>>
>>9377738
QHI doesn't deliver to your country?
>>
>>9377757
if you're on hon AA's like spiro for example, dutasteride or shit like that could help
if you're on cypro that's pretty good on its own
cypro + minoxidil (+ duta or fina if you're really keen on blocking 1100000% of your DHT in hair follicles) is top tier
>>
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>>9376426
Still, breast cancer isn't unheard of, and if you haven't had your chromosomes checked you won't know for sure if you have some abnormality that increases risk. Best to avoid putting patches and gels on your breasts to be safe.
>>9376620
>Can Cypro cause high prolactin levels?
There have been reports of this. If you start lactating that's a bad thing.
>>9376660
A little bit of testosterone isn't necessarily a bad thing.
>>9376699
I'm beyond conies but I know when my nipples get erect the areolas shrink and get bumpy, but they spread out and become flatter when the nipples are relaxed.
>>9376895
Maybe progy should be the femboy estrogen of choice.
>>9377215
I disagree. I've felt persistently better on a higher dose of estradiol, and I feel shitty if I get below 100 pg/mL. Women will notice differences over the course of a menstrual cycle and during pregnancy. Why shouldn't estradiol have mental effects? There are scores of drugs that do, so why is it so hard for some people to believe the same for estradiol?
>>9377341
No one ever said it was. Don't get autistic about this.
>>9377333
Walmart had it at that price, and also my hospital's pharmacy, where it's actually a few cents under $20. This isn't an online thing, it's a prescription price.
>>9377332
2 mg estradiol valerate seems pretty shitty.
Dienogest is a synthetic progestin, though a shitty one except for the endometrium. It seems to be a lousy androgen blocker too, though if it shuts down FSH and LH it should work to shut down T production. I haven't heard of anyone using that before. Cypro would be better, but let us know if this works.
***
I've added a graph for Divigel. It looks like you need a lot of it to get decent levels.
>>
>>9377781

I'm on cypro. tbhon my hair isn't that bad just not great, and my older brother has lost quite a bit of his hair, so trying to stop that shit before it has a chance.

What's minoxidil sold under? Is there a specific product containing it I should use?
>>
>>9377788
rogaine I think? kirkland has some offbrand stuff which is liquid (slightly worse application?) but much cheaper and literally the same thing
>>
>>9377796

Ah good. They sell that at Tesco I think so easy. Stupid question, but should I get the one for men or for women?
>>
>>9377806
Sometimes the women's version is weaker but if you look on amazon for instance, both are 5%
the label doesn't matter, ALWAYS get the stronger concentration
>>
>>9377822

Will do. Thanks.
>>
>>9377796
I can confirm that the Kirkland stuff is effective. 1 1/2 months in and I'm getting significant growth.
>>
>>9377842
I wonder if you can use rogain on hair thats naturally full but brittle.
>>
>>9375362
UPS mailboxes don't matter. If you get a small box, if you get larger packages than will fit they will just hold them in back for you. I've been doing the exact same thing as you anon for like 5 years now
>>
>>9377784
>2 mg estradiol valerate seems pretty shitty
What would you recommend instead?
> I haven't heard of anyone using Dienogest before
Me neither, that's why I feel a little skeptical about it. I've asked for cypro multiple times, but I suspect my current endo is scared of giving me the real deal.
>>
>>9378104
2 mg micronized 17-beta estradiol / hemihydrate (Elleste Solo, Estrofem, Estrace) would be better taken sublingually. 100 mcg patches would be even better but can be annoying and expensive. 2 mg of that gel I posted the graph for would be approximately equivalent too but I don't know if that 2 mg dose is the same for other gels.
It seems like Dienogest should work but only if it gets FSH and LH down like it's supposed to. I'm not sure if it's easier on the liver than cypro though. You'll find out when you get your blood tests.
>>
>>9378248
Hey, thanks, I'll go with that instead of valerate.
I'm getting my second full blood test (first one was prior to taking any meds) in a month. Then I'll be able to compare between the two and adjust the pill scheme if needed
>>
>>9377341
How about this. Youre trying to cause a chemical reaction but you only dip part of the chemicals to be oxidized in. And then you suddenly immerse them all for a bit. Then you pull them out to being slightly immersed and push it back inside at timed intervals. So the reaction continues but when do you believe the greater amount of change takes place? Ultimately keeping change constant, while also making significant changes (when possible) can be juggled back and forth no? Thats why it is recommended to split the dose. Plain and simple. Saturation.

And much like reaction limitations through overheating or stability issues, we also have the issue of receptors being overwhelmed or the liver doing overtime.
>>
>>9378625
Are you a biochemist?
>>
>>9377940
Yes. Look into reductase inhibitors.
My hair started thinning on pure bica and minoxidil with finasteride made it thicc again. the whole vascular dilation + dht takedown and new follicle stimulation make a great combo
>>
>>9378671
Is finasteride useful if you're already on cypro?
>>
So when should I take my blood tests in relation to the timing of taking my E? Of course E levels are gonna spike immediately after taking it and then fall over time so should I take the bloods a certain number of hours after taking it, or immediately after taking it, or what?
>>
>>9378764
12 hours after your last pill seems to be the popular blood test time.
>>
>>9378764
I agree with >>9378775
that 12 hours is best, before you take your next pill. If you're interested in seeing how levels decay from the initial spike you could vary the timing, but normally you want to stay at the same time so you can compare over time.
>>
Is it possible that Dutasteride can actually cause hairloss (its meant to prevent it). I've been on it for around a week now and my situation has worsened dramatically.. I've never been this sad before and I don't know what to do. I spent a lot of money on these tablets and they aren't fucking working.
>>
>>9378981
It shouldn't, but it's possible the growth cycles of your hair are being altered. The should stop coming out and then grow back. I'd give it another week. Minoxidil has been reported to cause shedding too when first starting to use it.
>>
New thread:

>>9379067
>>9379067
>>9379067
>>
>>9378637
Obviously not cause that's not how chemistry works.




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