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Why are so many intelligent writers permanently stuck in the "fuck authority and morals, everything is relative" phase -- like angsty teenagers. They view freedom and autonomy as doing what you want, submitting to your passions aka being degenerate and ultimately living a selfish life.
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because if they weren't, they'd have normal jobs
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The world stopped believing in higher values, so now we're not unlike swines rolling around in filth, while claiming to be enjoying ourselves.

We've made all kinds of process as a species, but our spiritual life is atrophying. I dont think this will last for long though.
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That's what's popular today since society is refusing to grow up.
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I would argue that you could be interpreting their talent for something as intelligence, which isn't always the same thing most of the times

Considering that entire civilizations weren't built upon the things these people wrote, compared to what have been done historically taking as reference the ideals that came out of reasonable writers that had the exact opposite mindset of what you just described, it seems that their talent to write has no actual correlation to their own ability to think about society in the long term

I may be wrong, but once very talented people tend to be very idealistic it's just normal that they would be like that on average, as they probably know that if they lose their own ingenuity and idealistic qualities they could end up in a pessimistic state of mind and that could even damage their own creative process as writers

Just some random considerations on the topic btw
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>>10117784
Name a single intelligent writer that does this.
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>>10117851
name a single true scotsman
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>>10117853
Brave Heart
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>>10117851
nietzsche, foucault, marquis de sade
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>>10117876
solzenitsyn, aquinas, dostoevsky
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>>10117784
I believe you have to be at least a bit degenerate to get involved in art.

If you weren't, you'd just live life on normie-mode.

There are exceptions, ofcourse
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>>10117924
Most of the best art the world has ever seen was made in devotion and contemplation, so I dunno.
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>>10117784
>degenerate

>>10117794
>higher values
>spiritual life
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>>10117794
To be a pig or a delusional pig...
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>>10117794
Is that you Guenon-poster?
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>>10117784
What you are describing is the exception, modern intellectuals have had a very apparent tendency of holding hard authoritarian beliefs, even if they themselves lived libertine lifestyles.
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>>10117784
This probably has to do with the adoption of a belief that there is no inherent meaning to life. Many intellectuals came to this conclusion, yet to live with it and not be crashed by the pressure of despair and hopelesness requires more than just intelligence, it requires wisdom. Wise men are much more rare, than smart ones, so that many of them fell victim to degeneracy, debauchery, and nihilism, trying to silence that voice in their heads, which was constantly screaming that all is dust.
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>>10117930

>Most of the best art the world has ever seen was made in devotion and contemplation

By deeply faulted people who lived conflicting personal lives. Take Caravaggio or Blake for example. I'm not trying to push the idea that this is in any way laudable behaviour, rather that it's better not to conflate artists with clergy-like figures.
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>>10117992
Point being these people still maintained awareness of higher principles and didnt succumb to basic bitch nihilism
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>>10118011

No argument there. I respect alienated degenerate artists who still retain some deep feeling that the soul exists more than any super woke "intellectual" nihilist who looks at believers like they're all sorry fools. I feel solidarity with the former, however far gone they are. The latter I feel only pity.
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You literally cannot be intelligent and not believe in God
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>>10118077
Not that I disagree, but please elaborate anon.
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>>10117795
Says the guy posting on 4chan
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>>10117937
>Hey guys, I made myself blind to deny the existence of light!
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>>10117784
>They view freedom and autonomy as doing what you want, submitting to your passions aka being degenerate and ultimately living a selfish life.
How is this different from the view of people of authority and status? Do they perhaps respect the "authority" of others? Do they perhaps employ morality on themselves instead of others?

States invade everything they can get away with and faggot-bashers take it up the ass, is it any wonder that such splendid shining examples of morality produce writers sharing their views?

They write like teenagers because we're ruled by teens.
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>>10117987
Peterson pls go
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>>10118077
of course not in the holistic sense of "intelligence" but you can be intelligent at a specific subject/skill and be ignorant of God. Like a math autist or someone who is a great shipbuilder, intelligent in a specific area, but not in general.
Lots of modern writers are like this, good wordsmiths and language crafters but philosophically impotent because they lack a relationship with God
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>>10118077

Right but you have to be pretty stupid to believe in the Christian God.
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>>10117784

I don't know which writers you're speaking about but you're probably misunderstanding many if not most of them.
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No, you're most likely just to cowardice to give in to your passions. Elsewise, you're just a blank rock with nothing to be passionate about.
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fuck /pol/ and fuck white people
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>>10118349
I don't think most writers frequent /pol/ or even know of it.
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>>10118349
fug /bol/ and fug whide beoble :DDDDD
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>>10117784
>intelligent writers
>"fuck authority and morals, everything is relative"

Maybe you should consider who you call intelligent.
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>>10118309
Maybe, but since there's no other god, what can ya do?
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>>10118384

Accept ignorance, live at the highest standard you can conceive of anyway.

Alternatively, accepting your premise, refuse to submit to an immoral and/or imperfect God.
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>>10117784

>why are so many men who attain greatness not shackled by the slavish mediocrity that I subscribe to because I am an internet reactionary?

Great question OP, and the answer may surprise you:

You're a huge faggot.
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>>10117784
>degenerate
>>>/pol/
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>>10117876
> marquis de Sade
> intelligent

When the fuck did we become reddit
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>>10118436
>>>/reddit/
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>>10117784

Could you please explain why "being degenerate" is bad?
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>>10117794

spbp

It reminds me of what Mailer said:
>"The sickness of our times for me has been just this damn thing that everything has been getting smaller and smaller and less and less important, that the romantic spirit has dried up, that there is no shame today. We're all getting so mean and small and petty and ridiculous, and we all live under the threat of extermination."
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>>10118481
But /pol/ is reddit.
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>>10118885
Hysterically screeching ‘/pol/’ in every thread because you’re so terrified of anything right of Trotsky is Reddit.
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>>10118758
>can you explain why a sick tree is worse than a healthy tree?
because one is sick, the other is not.
to degenerate is to regress into an ill state of being, to live as a shadow of yourself.
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>>10118885
>true is false
>war is peace
>everyone with strong convictions is the same
oh ?
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>>10120549
Most descriptions of what counts as 'degenerate' seem pretty arbitrary, though. They rarely seem to cut some clear and meaningful line between what makes a society sick and what makes it healthy.
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>>10117784
>submitting to your passions
>being selfish

Pick one idiot
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>>10117784
Intelligent people tend to be curious, this includes questioning everything. What kind of pleb would accept authority and morals from other people without questioning their validity?
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>>10120561
>i submit to my passions but I fool myself into thinking I'm not submitting or ruled by them
hehe
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>>10117784
You have to be a bit arrogant to be any kind of an artist because you have to believe that you offer the world something that no one else can. It shouldn't be a surprise that as society gets more advanced and the amount of things that haven't been done decreases, the amount of artistic egoists increases.
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>>10117784
Because the world has degenerated lol
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>>10117784

How are you supposed to believe in servitude and morals when our post-industrial society is a anti-humanitarian living hell?

We are just the meaningless transitional culture before robots take over everything. So many higher technological structures make a hope and passion for the future of our culture nill and void.
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>>10117876
>foucault
>intelligent
aids and anal fisting aren't a substitute for iq points, sorry
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>>10120561
your passion is shitposting about an obscure, irrelevant egoist writer on some internet forum, i take it
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>>10120618
>our post-industrial society is a anti-humanitarian living hell
Said the well-fed NEET from the comfort of his mothers basement with electricity and warm, running water, free of obligation, that allow him to waste his time shitposting on an Turkish goat exchange forum with people across the world.

Come on, dude, show some fucking perspective. 21th century would be better than paradise for people from the past.
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>>10120661
foucault was ofcourse foolish overall, but he had some intelligence for writing his inane drivel.
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>>10120686
>Comfort is the most valuable state of being
Fuck man, you need to stop consuming so much passive entertainment.
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>>10120723
You're free to give it all up and move to some failed state to experience a meaningful struggle attempting to live from day to day, like the people in pre-industrial society did. But of course you could also just bitch about your easy life on 4chains. Quite the brave choice.
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>>10120731
>If you don't like it, just move somewhere else
Or I could work to improve where I live. I know that's a foreign concept to consumerist cucks.
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>>10120686

ad hominum.

you know nothing of my life
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>>10117784
It's not a phase if it's permanent.
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>>10120761
How are you doing that?

>>10120776
Some guesses are pretty self evident.

>you're on 4chan
>so you have means to browse the site
>you probably don't do it while starving and clearly have time to waste
etc, etc, etc

Forgive me if I got it all wrong and you've just stolen a phone while dying of a gun wound and accidentally got to the site while looking for a hospital.
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>>10120793
I haven't eaten in nearly two weeks, but I know I'll have money in a couple days by hawking shit I stole, so I'm camping out in an old, unused school building that was closed over parents' OH&S complaints a couple years ago.

>Life's like that sometimes.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I browse /lit/ to attempt "muh learning" and keep relatively sane. I think.

>>10117784
As for your question, I don't know enough of anything and haven't lived long enough to talk about another human's intellect. I do know I hate moral absolutism and the preachy faggots who tout it like there's no other answer.

>Humanity created the concept of moral absolutism, it's a belief
>Beliefs are not real, tangible parts of the world, they're abstractions that help people's models of the world around them
>Same as "god" used to be, hence the god is dedded meme

I don't believe fuck authority and morals is particularly useful, because I personally find human society a useful world model even if I'm sucking ass at it for most of my life thus far. I certainly don't consider the genuine curiosity or honest questioning of what we consider "authority" or morals to be angsty, either -- perhaps that's limited life experience beyond stabbing people and stealing shit though, we'll see in 50 years or so.
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>>10120580
But if I let my passions dictate what I do, in what way is this "selfish"? Wouldn't the selfish thing be for I myself to dictate what I do?
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>>10121089
Damn, nigga. Living the literally livestyle fullstop. For how long now?
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>>10117876
How does one read Nietzsche and come to the conclusion of 'fuck authority' and 'everything is relative'
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>>10121115
That would make you a creature of ego instead of a man of intellect.
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>>10120551
>>10118916
/pol/ is infested by t_d, don't talk about things you know nothing about.
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Make an actual good argument for higher values instead of just calling your opponents children
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>>10121541
It boils down to "you will know them by their fruits"
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>>10121287
>'fuck authority'
Because everyone who reads Nietzsche thinks they can become the Ubermensch.
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>>10121322
Could I not just be me, instead of a "man of intellect"? I want to be defined by my intellect as little as I want to be defined by my "passions."

I don't know what you mean by "creature of ego."
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>>10122420
This. /pol/tards who earn $7/hr stacking shelves think they're in the 1%. Never underestimate the power of narcissism.
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>>10117876
>I've read nothing of Nietzsche
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whats your refutation for this hedonism then?
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>>10117784
Why are you such a slave-moralist bitch?
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>>10117784
Don't think I don't see the sly way you've tried to conflate "authority" and "morals", as if one came from the other.




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