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Has anyone read this Lacanian analysis of anime? It essentially argues that all otakus are necrophiles who, as a result of the traumatic experience of being sexually attracted to an unobtainable (drawn) woman, are doomed to constantly reproduce her image in doujinshi, fanfic, and so on, to the point where they create an alternative drawn reality where their waifu can exist. Is this accurate?
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>>11122445
No. But maybe for a Lacanian analysis it is.
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>>11122468
This. fpbp. /thread. It's accurate through its lens, but you could swap that lens for any other.
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>rei
Fuck off toiletfag
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>>11122706
Is everything okay, anon?
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>>11122445
>the traumatic experience of being sexually attracted to an unobtainable (drawn) woman
Every woman I've ever been attracted to has been unobtainable, whether they're drawn or not, so I don't really see the distinction.
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>>11122754
THIS THIS THIS THIS
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>>11122445
As the world leading Anime Philosopher I can assure you, that is not the case
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>>11122445
Go on
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>>11122754
Tamaki argues that Otaku are still mostly attracted to real women, but its their impossible to fulfill attraction to drawn women that gives Otaku their peculiar view of reality.
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>>11122796
He refutes the stereotype that Otaku are lost in their own world, detached from reality. He points out that Otaku very commonly socialize IRL in fanclubs and conventions. He believes that Otaku instead see anime as being equally real to the material universe. He then predicts that as computers slowly dominate our lives non-Otaku will come to see reality like that as well, with our online lives equal to our real ones.

The book was written in the 90's so the conclusion is a little obvious in hindsight.
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>>11122823
Wow the book was written in the 90's; that is pretty interesting. He isn't wrong at all about how our internet lives have started to become more attached to our reality life, such as Twitter or Facebook, so it is very intriguing how the author predicted the future would be like and how he was quite accurate. I personally refrain from using Facebook or any social media that requires me to create a self image of myself on the internet because I don't really like having my information out like that. Throughout the past couple of years however his predictions seems to have started to become the most like reality, such as things like comics, sci-fi, and anime have started to become a greater interest and openly liked by the more general public. Whether this is good or bad is up to the individual, in my opinion it doesn't really matter since my days of anime are long gone.
>>11122754
>are doomed to constantly reproduce her image in doujinshi, fanfic, and so on, to the point where they create an alternative drawn reality where their waifu can exist. Is this accurate?
as they had said, there really is no distinction from it being drawn or not. There are many people who insert the girl of their dreams into their doujinshi, books, movies, day dreams, etc; they do it because they want her to exists. I know because i have done it before. So Saito Tamaki does pose a great idea, and it is focused on the otaku, but it may also apply to normal people if edited in a different way.
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>>11123552
While it doesn't matter in a common sense context that the woman is drawn, in a Lacanian analysis it does matter. Being attracted to anything that isn't a woman's vagina is a fetish, a substitute for the vagina, according to Lacan. While being attracted, however impossibly, to a real woman is fine, being attracted to a drawn woman is a fetish, which Tamaki then argues that Otaku fixate so strongly upon that they create a second reality to to make their fetish into a "real woman," treating her as if she exists.

The trauma of conducting large parts of our lives over the internet seems to be doing something similar among non-Otakus today.
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>>11122445
>implying my anime wife is not real
Lacan was a normalfag
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>>11122445
>Lacanian analysis
Stopped reading
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>>11123605
but he does say your waifu is real. You made her real, to you at least.
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>>11123608
Hey Lacanians have written some of the most fascinating film and media criticism around. Check out Carol J Clover's "Men, Women, and Chainsaws" for some amazing analysis.
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>>11123657
>Lacanians
Stopped reading.
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>>11123592
Well an image of a woman isn't a woman either.
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>>11123758
yes, a photograph is also fetishistic, but since the photographed woman must exist somewhere, it is not as traumatic as desire for a drawn woman.
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Sound true enough
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>>11123766
What would he say about makeup, CGI and Photoshop/image manipulation?
A lot of images of "people" that are seen daily cannot exist in reality.

I understand that the potentiality/uncertainty should make it different (that person /could/ exist, maybe), but I'm not so sure it's significantly different.

For example, I've always found it odd that people have posters of bands and especially models on their wall. For me, I find anime posters just as odd.
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>>11123864
I'm not sure, photoshop wasn't widespread (if it was invented at all?) at the time this book was written.
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How does this relate? And is it good? I've heard good things about it. Also, how much prerequisite knowledge is required to read these books?
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A lot of times i draw monsters killin shit
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>>11123932
You've read the book though, so tell me what you think would follow from the book's analysis. Don't worry, I won't quote you anywhere or anything. I'm just curious.
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>>11124089
OP is pretty easy, especially since it has an intro that explains the relevant Lacan theory.
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It’s a pretty nice book to be honest. Never really thought about otakus as people who categorize data and can refer to it indefinitely.
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>>11124101
Following his analysis, I don't think anything would happen. A photograph implies reality (see: Barthes' theory of a photograph) so even if a photograph is retouched we assume that the image corresponds to some real object.

If the photoshop so extreme that the figure looks artificial its not really a photo I guess it would fulfill the conditions of the book's argument i guess.

But if you're curious read the book for yourself!
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If you think this book is feminist, think again. The author is a Freudian psychoanalyst who's argument about these "phallic girls" is inherently sexist, homophobic, and reductive. For example, he argues that the icon of the beautiful fighting girl is capable of encapsulating perversion, "She radiates the potential for an omnidirectional sexuality latent with pedophilia, homosexuality, fetishism, sadism, masochism, and other perversions, yet she behaves as if she were completely unaware of it all." (158) Clearly, this views homosexuality as a perversion = homophobic. Using the term "phallic mother" is basically an argument for the all-powerful status of the penis and the notion that women who are "damaged" through trauma (especially rape) are desirable based on that trauma, and that the beautiful fighting girl is an empty stand-in for the penis because she has never been raped. Clearly, the author assumes that his audience is all heterosexual men, a universal "we." Perhaps something was lost in translation, but by the last 20 pages of this book, I was seriously annoyed by this reductive, outdated psychoanalysis. Aren't there more productive ways to consider images of beautiful girls that aren't totally focused on the penis and male desire?
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>>11124537
I'm convinced that I should read this book.
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It's not like real girls are any more obtainable to than drawn ones
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>>11122445
I thought this was common knowledge. Do we really need some wanker to spew theory at us to figure out?
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>>11122445
>Is this accurate?
I would say that this is applicable to some subgroup of anime enthusiasts, specifically the kind who *actually* waifu post unironically.
I would also suggest there are a few other groups, eg. the 15 year old newfags, who seek wish fulfillment in something like SAO and I am certain there are other groups.
But I haven't read this book and am just basing my thoughts on your very short post about it.

>the traumatic experience of being sexually attracted to an unobtainable (drawn) woman
Its not *that* traumatic and I am speaking from experience here.

>>11124537
>"phallic girls"
I don't know what I could possibly say about this.
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>>11124537
32 people found this helpful
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>>11122445
bad cover
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>>11124818
Rei was always the more popular character in Japan, it makes sense simply from a marketing perspective. Especially if this was written shortly after NGE aired.
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>>11124537
Based antipsychoanalysis feminist
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>>11124537

>the notion that women who are "damaged" through trauma (especially rape) are desirable based on that trauma

He's not wrong.

Good post overall.
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>>11122754
There is no distinction - as all women (real and unreal) are unobtainable object petit a for these individuals, their grip on reality is loosened. That's why a waifu can become such an integral and real part of their life, because if anime girls are just as artificial and distant as real ones then you may as well obsess over the ones who won't resist your advances or oust you for being a pervert. Waifus are always "pure", untainted by the flesh of real women, and therefore incapable of their perceived vices or cruelties
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I'm surprised how people seem to gloss over how anime is practically synonymous with ephebophilia. The overwhelming majority of sexualized anime girl characters are between ages 15 and 17. Rei and Asuka are 14.
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>>11124855
You're not wrong, but it does make sense in the context of the show. Shinji is 14 too
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>>11124855
This is also very interesting in connection to the eternal highschool setting in modern anime, from where these girls mostly come.
I have some baseless speculations about that, but no really good explanation.

>>11124868
Not him, but
>it does make sense in the context of the show
Yes, that is obviously true. But WHY is it the context of the show?
It certainly wasn't a coincidence, but a deliberate choice.
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>>11124884
>why is a show aimed at teenagers about teenage characters
Not that complicated.
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>>11124898
Granted that.
>aimed at teenagers
Well, it missed by quite a bit, looking at /a/.
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Another worthless analysis by pseuds with too much time on their hands.
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>>11124908
An accurate description of most of academia.
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>>11124908
>>11124912
An academia sees anime and thinks necrophilia before he thinks ephebophilia.
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>>11124904
The vast majority of anime fans worldwide, /a/ included, are in their teens.
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>>11124930
>The vast majority of anime fans worldwide, /a/ included, are in their teens.
While that may be true, I doubt that it is true for the unironic waifufags.
Certainly the ones I talked to on /a/ and /r9k/ weren't.
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>>11124798

as someone who's only read his essay in "Robot Ghosts and Wired Dreams," trauma has a much wider meaning and application in psychoanalysis. The word "impact" might be just as effective a substitute.
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bump
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It’s a shame Tamaka Saito isn’t more well known. He coined the term hikkimori after all.
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>>11122445
>Lacanian analysis
Into the trash and so on
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>>11124840
What a time to be alive
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>>11124827
Is Misato really the most popular Eva girl in the West? I mean, I don't find that surprising, but it would be interesting to see if that were really the case.
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>>11124808
My sides
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>>11124537
>women who are "damaged" through trauma (especially rape) are desirable based on that trauma
This is an odd way of saying: self-aware women are more desirable than optimistic, naive bubbles.
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>>11122445
>It essentially argues that all otakus are necrophiles
Stopped reading there. Freudian thottery. A lot of otakus are objectively pedophiles though.
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>>11126472
Well being attracted to something that has the form of a human but has no life, like a corpse or a drawn woman, is necrophilia, according to the book.

Plus as feminist critic Joan Smith said in her analysis of Marylin Monroe, “pedophilia is next to necrophilia” because the fantasy of pedophilia is that it cannot resist, much like a corpse.
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>>11122445
I've read it, and that's not the thesis I recall.
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>>11124537
But perversion in a Lacanian context doesn’t have a negative value judgment attached to it.
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>>11126644
Well that’s just one argument in the book about the nature of the Otaku. Then he builds on it to explain why exactly does anime heavily feature prepubescent girls fighting for their lives, but I kind of lost him there.
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>>11122445
>Lacanian
look at this dude
oh no no no
AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHAHAHHAHA
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>>11126638
That’s actually a very interesting analysis, but it’s source make me slightly suspicious of it.
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>>11126675
You should read her essay on it. It’s quite short and not very theory heavy.

It’s called “Gentlemen Prefer Dead Blondes”
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>>11126690
It’s collected in her book “Misogynies”
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>>11124840
sounds comfy
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>>11124908
this
retarded faggots that don't even have a basic grasp of Japanese society and culture.
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>>11124930
>what are demographics
Its easy to spot dumbfucks who know jackshit about anime genres and who they are marketed towards
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>>11124798
Jerking off to cartoons is less damaging than to trannies but tons of closet fags on here will defend their precious traps. No sane person is going to bother defending anime or their waifu since they aren't real.
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>>11126942
>Japanese psychologist doesn't have a basic grasp on Japanese culture
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>>11126998
But Lacan says we never really have a grasp on the Real, because the Real is mediated through language.What Tamaki is saying is that the Real doesn’t have to correspond to what we traditionally think of as “reality” but the world of anime as well.
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bump
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>>11126638
>because the fantasy of pedophilia is that it cannot resist
[citation needed]
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>>11122445
why is this weeb shit so hard to find in good epub or mobi
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>>11128990
you can easily read the pdf in e-reader because very comfy
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I love my husbando.
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>>11129335
Where's the pdf ? I don't know how where to go to pirate book.
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>>11122445
>being sexually attracted to an unobtainable (drawn) woman, are doomed to constantly reproduce her image
This is likely close to the real thing,-- at least plausible given Japanese culture. This can be easily be going on in attenuated forms throughout.
>He then predicts that as computers slowly dominate our lives non-Otaku will come to see reality like that as well,
The singularity will be something other entirely from what we think.
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>>11122706
Rei is best girl, go away Asukafag
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>>11130038
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>>11122445
I've been looking for this shit for ages, where the hell do you get stuff like this
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>>11130493
I bought my copy online through indigo (Canadian Barnes & Noble). They didnt have any copies in stores, but kept some in the warehouse I guess.
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>>11122445
As someone who aims to create a till a of my own fictional character, from the basic gist of it, it sounds accurate. Don't know where the necrophile part comes from though...
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>>11130517
>till a
tulpa*
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>>11130493
your local library :^)

a nearby university to me offers public access to its stacks, so i go there for more obscure books.
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>>11122445
>otaku are necrophiles
>waifus are animate corpses
>cover is rei

what did he mean by this
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>>11130563
A search for "beautiful fighting girl" at my local library brings up The Fault in our Stars
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>>11130563
>>11130517
well, shit. I guess I found a pdf from the sticky, will have to read it on my phone I guess, fuck.
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>>11130617
what sticky
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>>11126647
Nigger, he refers to everything as a pathology.
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>>11124937
a typical waifufag has intellectual development of a 14 yo while being in 20-30 age group
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y r fightin gurls so qt?
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>>11126978
Anime demographics only matter in Japan where people watch the stuff on TV, and the kids shows are separated from the teen shows by programming blocks. Outside of Japan everything gets lumped together on torrent/streaming sites and the demographics don't exist anymore.
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>>11131629
bcos eye sad so
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>>11122445
I disagree with the necrophiles bullshit, but why is fantasizing about a fictional character so wrong?
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>>11133389
it's not wrong; other essays suggest it has practical purposes, such as the soul of anime by ian condry
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>>11126358
I'm sure he was talking about "Damaged Goods" more than self aware women
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>>11126638
Fucking a cold lifeless body is necrophilia, desire for a drawn or written characters is FICTOPHILIA

A dead woman is dead in reality. A fictional woman is non-existent in reality, but that character could either be alive or dead in the reality. Finding the fact that a fictional character is dead hot makes it Ficto-Necro
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>>11126659
I'm actually very curious about that, it bothers me that most female characters aren't adults, but rather close or over the age of consent, nevertheless still not an adult. I always thought it was some metaphor for growing up and becoming an adult. Sexualization of said character makes sense in a way because many teens have or want to experience/d sexuality, and sex is part of growing up, at least developing a sexuality is. My problem is that it can get a little gratuitous for me to consider metaphorical at that point, like the shit-shows such as Highschool DxD, High School of The Dead and such. The only show that was gratuitous and metaphorical was Cross Ange, becuae it was about her journey from being a princess, to a warforged soldier. Ange herself is seventeen, which might be a legal adult in japan, I'm not exactly sure. I found it interesting when they put her her in an aggressive sexual situation, but showed her overcome and triumph said situations. I also think how they handled mutual passion between Ange and Tusk was interesting, because together they became adults. This was an actual story of reaching adulthood, and I'm just mentioning the "sexual" part of the show. There is so much more to Cross Ange besides the fanservice and raunchiness.
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>>11124840
This is a very interesting point of veiw
>>
bump
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>>11133471
>Cross Ange
is that the fucking ecchi harem with mechas
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>>11133630
ecchi lesbian-ish, not really harem, about mechas, yes. I still stand by my >>11133471 post though.
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>>11122445
i forgot about this, i want to read it though
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I just found out about an academic journal called mechademia, which focuses on anime. I'm going to grab their issues and read them, but before I do, if anyone here has read them, what do you think? How are they?
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>>11133730
Found out about them a while ago. Pretty good honestly.
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Ok what the hell does he mean by "phallic girl". Is he talking about the picture of a girl and a penis ? Or of a girl WITH a penis (futa) ?
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>>11133471
Someone else mentioned how Eva was aimed at teenagers, and a lot of anime is, especially the stuff that gets popular over here.. Most of the male characters are also close to the age of consent in a similar manner, but that doesn't come up as much for some reason.
Go outside of shounen/shoujo and look at shows aimed towards out-and-out adults and you'll find stuff like this season's Wotakoi or older things like Planetes with a predominately adult cast. Even outside that I wouldn't go so far as to say the sheer presence of underage girls in anime is in itself a cause for alarm - I wish the West had something equivalent to Madoka, for instance.
I think it comes down to simple marketing, really. Teenagers are going to find teenagers attractive, and if you're marketing to teenagers, what's the next logical step? Did any of you ever label yourself ephebophiles as teenagers?
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>>11133730
oh cool thanks for the info
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>>11133730
>>11134616
>>11135416
Actually, I can't find ebooks of volumes 1, 7 and 10 anywhere. If anyone has them, please share. Thanks.
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>>11135099
I don't think it's either
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>>11122445
This and they are incel autists who had distant relationships with mom and did not receive timely sexual attention during middle school and hs. A man’s receiving of and receptivity to positive attention from same-age and slightly senior (a few years older) females of high (but still comparable) socio-sexual rank is unbelievably important for the allocation of resources to secondary sexual characteistics and socio-sexual, psycho-sexually driven networking or sociality. If a person sees little attention and is not presented opportunities they will not develop a sexual consciousness or will repress this consciousness. The only explanation for bizarre and dysfunctional sexuality among 90% of those who exhibit them is inadequate attention and receptivity at a young age from their peers and older cohorts of similar age and development. Your sisters friends telling you you are cute, being smiled at in class, being asked to hangout at the lake by friends who bring girls, having girls send you love notes and want your attention when you’re 10-15 has a massive positive impact on self image and ability to cope with reality. Those who are denied this will not develop physically or sexually the same as those who are given it. I strongly believe lamarck was right and if you withhold certain resources and environments a person becomes stunted and can pass this on to other generations. Of course a beautiful kid gets more attention and this compounds on itself but there does seem to be evidence that a plain kid being given good attention and acting on that will allocate more resources to their beauty and sociality. Inceldom starts with being ignored, being kept at a distance and falling behind developmental milestones which the public no longer tracks adequately (first look, first kiss, first touch, first cuddle, first sexual touch, first penetration, first sexual encounter, first sex marathon, first domination). I would imagine a mother whose friends are not attractive and whose friends don’t show mild adoration for a young boy’s appearance will cause the beginnings of this rift. Of course neighborhood girls and the school hierarchies will do the most to engender the inadequacy. Regardless this is why /r9k/ is pedophilic and drawn to animu, they are basically reliving middleschool at the lake every single moment they encounter their own libido. You cannot give back someone’s formative years and there is no amount of coaching that will restore someone’s youth and chance to develop properly.
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>>11135099
Are you pretending to be retarded?
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>>11136062
They honestly aren't that expensive to buy. Other than that, most universities should have access to them digitally or even perhaps in print.
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>>11130596
Rei actually fits the necrophilia scheme quite well, why do you ask for an interpretation?
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>>11136934
>You cannot give back someone’s formative years and there is no amount of coaching that will restore someone’s youth and chance to develop properly.
Thats a hell of a stinger, anon.
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>>11136934
so should i just kill myself?
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>>11124855
There's no such thing as epehbophilia. It's called heterosexuality.
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>>11126252
When nuToonami aired 1.11 a few years ago, I popped into /co/'s toonami general to see their reaction, being an /a/non myself. They all saw Misato as best girl. Possibly cuz she's an adult and they are normies
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>>11133471
>it bothers me that most female characters aren't adults
problem?
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>>11136062
All volumes are on Jstor. If you make an account you can check out for free a few articles.
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>>11138096
does that let me download them?
>>11137009
my local uni has them, but I'm not associated with it so I'd have to read it there which I don't like.
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>>11138096
Ah thanks for the tip, I was able to access all of them through the sci-hub jstor proxy.
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>>11136934
People who were unsuccessful with women 10 or 50 or 100 years ago didn’t self identify as “incels”

I went through a bit of a bitter /r9k/ phase as a teenager but found out there was more to life than girls ie physical activities and creative pursuits. I also didn’t want to do the PUA thing because it seemed inauthentic and stupid. I’m 21 and still a virgin and only really get upset about it when I’m extremely depressed

IMO “incels” are just too fucking obsessed with sex, they’re like the unsuccessful versions of your Rooshes and Dan Bilzerians
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>>11138354
Western culture is too obsessed with sex, it's not just "incels".
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>>11138917
Not that anon but elaborate on what you mean by 'western culture'. Because I'm afraid this term is too broad and analogues to a 'super culture' as in an over arching term for thousands of cultures mixed into one group. It's pretty hard to assert anything which applies to all within.
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>>11138066
Do they still have a Toonami general? If so I might have to check out this /co/ that you speak of.
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>>11136969
>>11136891

Well what is it then ? I know nothing about psychology. Is it a technical term ?
>>
>>11139764 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallic_woman
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>>11138354
>IMO “incels” are just too fucking obsessed with sex, they’re like the unsuccessful versions of your Rooshes and Dan Bilzerians
this af
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>>11124840
Interesting.
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>>11136934
I've missed all the "developmental milestones" described in this post. What the fuck am I supposed to do now?
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>>11141248
post on 4chan and read books about the psychology of waifus.
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>>11141248
There's nothing wrong with that, lack of attention as a child can become a pathology, but it isn't necessarily one. Just make sure you have your life in order and stop getting flustered every single time some random on the internet says something.
Anyway not all those events were even considered milestones historically too. Don't get worked up over nothing.
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>>11138088
Well, not really a problem because >>11135305 like said, anime is marketed towards teens, and teens find teens attractive, so it would only make sense to make characters attractive teens. It's not really a """problem""" that they are sexualized so much, but i just notice the sexualization of teens is a littlre more abundant in anime, than in most japanese or western media. I just think it's an anime thing.
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>>11141300
I'm not sure it's more, rather it's different. In anime you can mess with the artstyle a lot, including proportions and weird clothing and so on. Other mediums can't do that without looking stupid, because that fundamental suspension of disbelief isn't there. However, what anime does more in the art, it does less in the writing (usually). I'm going to say that dialogue is in general less sexualized in anime than it is in say Western tv, at least in my experience.
All that being said, it's silly to talk about a whole medium like this.
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>>11141248
there is no (you) and there is no such thing as choices or volition.
>>11138354
you’re still a virgin
>>11137866
you will if the coping doesn’t keep pace with the depression, I hope you don’t, there is absolutely no guarantee it will get better as you become even less attractive with time
>>11137313
lol did you think that it didn’t matter? your parents told you you could use college to cover up your ineptitude yeah? boomers deserve death squads and being sunk to the bottom of the ocean in shipping crates
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>>11141329
>dialogue is in general less sexualized in anime than it is in say Western tv
especially when it comes to the portrayal of teens imo
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>>11141331
t. Incel
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>>11141370
no. but everything i said is true, and denying even one aspect of it is a sign of being out of touch with sexual selection and ontogeny of CNS/Psyche
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>>11141383
>dude evopsych lmao
Simply epic
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>>11141449
its behavioral genomics and evo bio, the psyche doesn’t exist. i don’t know why libs and leftists are so scared of the sexual selection machine’s mechanics, you wouldn’t have beyonce or male models if 1/3 of males didn’t basically just die off for most of history
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>>11141470
>the psyche doesn't exist
>"people" actually "believe" this
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>>11141470
> behavorial genomics
A daring synthesis
>>
>>11141509
rejecting behaviorism was 20th century's biggest mistake.
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>>11124537
>Clearly, this views homosexuality as a perversion = homophobic
Wrong. If you read Freud, it's pretty evident that he uses the term "perversion" as in "non-normal, statistical deviation", i.e., basically just to point out that this is, as a matter of fact, not how most people are. It doesn't necessarily imply a negative judgment.
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>>11141517
Actually, it wasn't rejected enough. Read Dreyfus.
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>>11122445
Strangely enough the creator of NGE was big into Lacan
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>>11141662
>strangely
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>>11122498
Lacan is right though. Every other lens isnt
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>>11141615
Dreyfus is a hack.
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>>11122728
kill youself faggot
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>>11122445
I haven't, but as someone who never had human role models, didn't have (m)any humans to interact with growing up, and didn't consume human-centric media like live action films or tv shows, I find this off the mark.

I find real women irksome in that they're incapable of compromising space, time, attention, or affection to a degree that satisfies both of us. They always seem to go overboard in another area when one is metered/measured/a compromised position. I have no sexualized affectations toward anime (hentai is amusing story-wise, occasionally, but it's mostly slop), and the closest I feel to an affection I might feel with a real girl is about the same as any character in a book. It's about the same thing I'd feel for a person I don't know, like an acquaintance. I hope they do well in life, I hope they're feeling all right or able to solve their own problems and grow from their mistakes, I hope I'm not fucking with their life somehow.

I also don't have just one "type" of imaginary ideal gril, and I don't believe many other anons do either. There are familiar archetypes (the onee-san, the bratty imouto, the idiot-genius, megane-oppai, the eccentric transfer student, the forever 8th-grader) that are done well or not objectively-speaking, and regardless of more objective "quality" there's the unique perspective on a person-to-person basis.

Someone may like Rei because she's essentially tabula rasa as a teenager, and someone else might like her because they're a sadist and would appreciate her ambivalence. Same with liking Asuka for her character flaws (indecision, emotional, almost bipolar) while others might like that tsundere/cunty attitude and get off on the abuse. Sure, the archetypes any of us are attracted to are common in our reproductions, the same way any icon or symbol with meaning to us will be included in some way.

>TL;DR creating your own world is not a byproduct of finding a place to make your own custom waifu; it's finding a place/way to express yourself, which often includes romantic or sexual desire and idealism
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>>11141490
>>11141509
v sad irony fag know-nothings being sardonic in the face of a new form of intelligence that doesn’t care about being problematic and will have to be muzzled before it causes social restructuring event

in regards to pic related they will be able to do this with sexual status, pedophilia, mental illness, political orientation, wealth, intelligence

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/15/5802

where will you run, where will you hide?
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>>11137881
You're unironically correct, even if you might be shitposting. In the western world the sexualization of young women starts far before it seems like it used to, but most obviously there's a cultural precedent with the mainstream fetishization of the "catholic schoolgirl," which is basically a young looking woman in a school uniform.

Besides which, most people in Asian countries are naturally more pedomorphic than those in other ethnic groups in other countries. A higher prevalence of ephebophilic art or cultural attitudes would seem like a natural consequence.
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>>11141838
Yes, statistics can find correlations. It cannot interpret them however, and most of the daring stuff in machine learning/nuAI is being/is built on very generous interpretations, ideologically driven interpretations, or just plain misinterpretations of various statistical findings.
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>>11141838
Where's the genomics in facial analysis software?
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>Is Lacanian analysis accurate
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>>11133471
I think there's values dissonance in your perspective anon. Your values as a westerner say that pedophilia and examining the sexuality of puberty in public ways is somehow wrong, and that depictions of that sexuality should not be entertainment when exaggerated. Those of us from the east find it about the same as you do violence.

As far as my friends, family, and peers have noted, it seems like much of the western way is to hint at but otherwise block out sexuality under 18, then to market/sell to those same deprived individuals for a massive profit once they reach adulthood. It also seems to create a split in childhood, between those who experiment and feel safe and educated, and those who have no access. I don't agree with some things, like 13yo or 15yo being age of consent, but I understand where it's coming from when I see Canadian children being legally penalized because one has revolved around the sun 18 times and the other only 15 times.

Most anime doesn't have some moral at the end like an aesop, or speak of the spiritual journey, or the sexual awakening. They're fictionalized depictions of reality made entertaining by exaggerating certain aspects.
>Cross Ange was created with that purpose in mind, whereas Highschool DxD/Highschool of the Dead was created for entertainment. It's not an exact comparison, but it's an approximate equivalent to ragging on genre fiction for not being more like classical literature when there's clearly a place for both.
>Unless you're also arguing that TMNT (turtles sexually & romantically attracted to a useless/helpless/clueless human girl) or Hey Arnold (holga's tsundere romantic and sexual feelings for the titular football-head) are trash because they don't measure up to the inherent life lessons of Avatar the Last Airbender.
>We can also call out just about any anime for not measuring up to NGE or FLCL re: children's journey to adulthood, and even those pale to Ghibli's works.
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>>11141868
No this isn’t true at all because the correlations have predictive power, you don’t understand that technology moves faster than epistemology does. Your inabikity to understand why AI is so effective at this kind of bioinformatics sorting heuristic is irrelevant to its ability to do so.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00499/full

again

and again

https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.04135

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/14/5/668/186534

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Steven_Gangestad/publication/234147826_The_Evolution_of_Human_Physical_Attractiveness/links/5556416208ae980ca60c84d5/The-Evolution-of-Human-Physical-Attractiveness.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5634448/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.0014-3820.2006.tb01854.x

you have no place to stand, it will all be cannibalized by this species of thought in just two decades. enjoy being relegated to freudian status appealing to culture and psychology which have minimal effects on adult mammalian behavioral trait expression.

just for fun

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/
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>>11136934
>inadequate attention
Nigga I've been having sex with adults since 4yo, and the first time I scored on my own terms was with 2 middle school grils at 11yo. Don't tell me my appreciation of waifus is because I'm some sexual deviant who had little access to the proper resources for a moral absolutist's ideal sexual awakening.
>Fuck that.

I grew up the way I did because I decided this is who I wanted to be, ideal or not to other people. Not because I was off the mark according to some abstract development bell curve some retard squints thought up to explain their hs grad class.
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>>11141838
>the gay faces attractive, the hetero's hideous
lolol so this is what sjw-funded research looks like.
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>>11141929
What's your point?

And you may be right that "it will all be cannibalized by this species of thought", but that doesn't make "this species of thought" right. I care about being right, not about who the "winner" is. Predictive power of a model isn't all there is to epistemology.
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I've always viewed the age of an anime character to be very fluid. Without external cues it is nearly impossible to judge, and the personality will be completely independent as well.

Just look at how many people ask why anime characters are all white. The truth is that the medium is so abstracted that your brain inserts familiar characteristics.
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>>11141966
>medium is so abstracted
Especially since those of us in the east relate to the yellowish-brownish tones of the skin to our "race" while western media yaps about them being white. My head turned pretty quick when Afghan-anon said most middle easterners are typucally "white" but don't consider themselves /white/ like the eurofags and americans; he even said his people see anime as representing them, even though he's aware it's supposed to be representative of its creators.
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>>11141957
these studies have nothing to do with sjw’s
>>11141943
you sound like a pedophile who was raped as a kid and had extremely traumatizing early exposure to sex because of your awful subhuman parents and horrible school environment
>>11141963
my point is that incels are genetically inferior and sexual selectiond determines a large amount of one’s social status, people are drawn to anime because they’re socially failing and are not keeping pace with healthy chronologic unfurlment of their sexuality, their ontogeny is stunted, and that they have no choice in the matter, we are lying to them by acting like its their fault and this applies to all men and women, is the basis for male-female relations and has violent implications for the current narrative of cartesian dualism, humanism and liberal understandings of sexual behavior. that’s it. there is no moral judgement. its just nature
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bump.
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>>11136934
this is all true. im not a virgin but i sure as fuck aint getting any either. there are milestones to hit and i didnt hit them. and im definitely not getting better looking with time. the more i investigate why i feel something's missing the more i realize im just hungry for a validation i never received but i saw others get like it was a fucking clearance sale.

i didnt ask for this anon. why?
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>>11141849
>mainstream fetishization of the "catholic schoolgirl"
And let's not forget the fixation on the magical number 18
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>>11124898
It's deeper than that. Look at the promo art in the original post in this chain. The anime industry has steadily advertised its characters in sexualized situations, and it's not necessarily targeted at the so called younger demographic, especially with the otaku climate.

Ironically, those in charge of marketing for pic related, an anime criticizing the neet lifestyle, ended up doing the exact thing here.
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>>11133389
Humans are meant to be sexual with other humans. Becoming lost in masturbation fantasies isn't an equivalent and can become unhealthy.
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>>11143453
>and can become unhealthy.
It is always unhealthy. Under no circumstances can self-gratification be a positive
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>>11142889
its not your fault. read the studies, they will elaborate everything, you can find more if you take notes on the terminology and look through the studies the authors cite in their work.

essentially most weak specimens died in childbirth, from early childhood disease, warfare and being aborted/culled for deformity or frailty. This ceased to occur and not only this but a large percentage of people carry substantial mutational load within them which most notably causes deleterious mutations to pop up that have a pleiotropic effect on polygenic traits like intelligence, attractiveness (symmetry) and sexually dimorphic traits like muscularity or femininity. This is worsening with time as purifying selection lessens, and additionally large numbers of people are breeding using evolutionary strategies that are dangerous to proliferate throughout a large gene pool. Basically lots of chads and lots of incels show up in high competition environments where females are allowed to select for sexual characteristics like dick size, height which are no longer necessary. So, you will get a near population collapse and a burgeoning number of literal mutants who are uglifying, becoming neotenous (losing traits of sexual maturity, becoming reduced, like a dog versus a wolf; this concept is being studied in other contexts but its important in regards to incels; pedomorphic is one of the terms used in contrast to peramorphic which are types who are more developed, robust, adult-like), dumber and incapable of breeding or attracting mates; this combines with the unreasonable competition which females instigate (as part of a concept called sexually antagonistic selection, men and women are not the same biologically and are actively competing for dominance in their gene pool, their chromosomes proliferate in uneven proportions; far more female ancestors than male ancestors, men drive evolution with much higher rates of mutation) and you get a bio-social maelstrom which will cause a collapse or a regression, or summon a purge (which is on its way, the first thing that will be done with this new science is barring certain people from having kids and genetically engineer the salvagable ones, effectively culling whole lineages).

Not your fault, you had not choice.

If you want to know where these conditions come from I recommend reading a book called Against the Grain: A deep history of the earliest states and another famous work called Technological Society by Ellul, and finally Dysgenics by Richard Lynn

the Unabomber manifesto will illustrate some of the political dimensions. Here is a study on dysgenics which has made its way through the HBD community and I found highly stimulating for my early foray into this way of thinking:
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>>11142889
here is the article, 4chan doesn't want me to post more links; use sci-hub ( dawt ) tee dubayoo to unlock any articles which are paywalled

search

"Social Epistasis Amplifies the Fitness Costs of Deleterious Mutations, Engendering Rapid Fitness Decline Among Modernized Populations"

please consider that you have been lied to about biology because of something terrible that happened in the 1940's and that this has serious consequences which will spill into public policy and eventually international politics
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>>11143491
what do you mean about that last part

I take it you're not in this position, frankly I don't feel any motivation to play a game that I was genetically under-equipped to play through no fault of my own (or through some fault, I guess, but excuse me if I'm not some Hegelian god-mind at age 9 who has the foresight to put down the snicker's and learn an instrument or something).

I don't really need any convincing through the studies, no doubt sexual egalitarianism is the elephant in the room in today's image society, it's amazing race (as a non-existent social illusion, blah blah blah etc.) has so much pull but the fucking physicality and appeal of another human being on a primal, physiological level is somehow a non-issue. right.

you seem sharp as fuck and it wants to make me eat a bullet but I enjoy digesting blackpills like this. better face it than retreat into an animu cocoon. what else can you tell me about incels and where this is all going? should I just suckstart a shotgun if I'm doomed to never experience real human intimacy again or a self-image that doesn't make me feel like a sexless neuter?
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>>11122445
I’m not smart enough to understand your post but i do want to contribute. It seems to me that homosexuality was much more prevalent back when modern humans emerged, which is like 100,000 years ago. This makes sense to me because how can homosexuals spread their genes? High IQd people also tend to be more conscientious. Well, they’re on the right side of the bell curve since so do idiots. In the state of nature you could have peace if everyone had a high IQ but idiots will always being the rest down to their level.It must be the case then that homosexuality has been in steep decline and soon we’ll all be straight, white, six foot tall brown eyed retarded last men. Hope that helps.
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>>11143523
>. It seems to me that homosexuality was much more prevalent back when modern humans emerged, which is like 100,000 years ago. This makes sense to me because how can homosexuals spread their genes?
where do you think humans come from, you smartass?
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I used to be so afraid of becoming obsolete (AI, better younger people, etc) but nowaday I get an odd anxiety riddlen decadent pleasure out of it.
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>>11143608
If anything, the "chad" and those who are submissive to animal impulses are the ones who are obsolete to the developed human consciousness. You're still a slave to your physical needs, but perhaps you can find comfort in your greater ability to interpret the things around you.
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Who cares just do whatever you can and want to do
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>>11143640
woah
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>>11143640
Is this what enlightenment looks like?
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>>11144310
it must be, lets wait and see what it brings.
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>>11144310
>Doki doki literature club
"No."
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>>11143523
At the same rate is it unlikely that some high IQ tyrant will hijack society and institute a eugenics program of some sort?
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>>11144448
>>11144844
The duality of man at work here.
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>>11146214
Also wondering this.
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>>11133471
>>11133471
>it bothers me that most female characters aren't adults
Stopped reading there
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>>11136934
This might be the general case, however, though I received attention in the high school years, I couldn't develop myself on the social and cultural aspects in a proper way. As far as I can remember, even since kindergarden I was scared to talk to the other kids. I wasn't ignored, I've lived since the beggining with a natural disability to connect with the others due to this irrational fear. Naturally, I avoided my peers in order to reduce my anxiety, so I missed key moments of the social development. In short words, the world didn't reject me, I rejected the world because I was scared.
I don't know why i'm writing all this shit but I had the urge to release this.
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>>11149564
Sounds like you had some kind of trauma when you were a small kid.
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>>11149473
oof, you really showed him, anon
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>>11149572
I can not remember a specific traumatic situation. The only remarkable event is that for some reason I felt opressed (and I still feel the same) by the presence of my father. I spent two years at the kindergarden unable to even pronounce a word though I had a totally normal understanding of the language.
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rei is so cute
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Nuke China and Japan ASAP
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>>11136934
Paragraph this shit faggot goddamn this wall of text is ugly
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>>11122445
>It essentially argues that all otakus are necrophiles
I never quite get this assumption, that to be attracted to something "static" is paramount to being attracted to the "dead". I've seen it being applied to books as well by Barthes or Foucault.

First, because it's very simplistic and generalizing: it flatly equates the dead with some sort of human product or excretion; second because, as someone who has acquired a variety of quirks over the years, I can say first hand that there's very clear distinctions between getting off to a human, a corpse, a mammal, something less human or a machine; it's very crude to label any attraction to what is "static" as being necrophiliac without taking into consideration what it is that moves whoever feels in that way. Of course I'm not saying it's the same as irl attraction, but there's nonetheless human responses one has when seeing a human which are lacking when seeing something that's not human. If we're going to say these people take this at face value to the point it becomes "real" for them, then how can we say what they are attracted to what is "dead"?

Anyway, I know I'm probably getting something wrong because everyone in academia likes their technical terminology, but this are my two cents.
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>>11148038
good post
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>>11136934
>falling behind developmental milestones which the public no longer tracks adequately (first look, first kiss, first touch, first cuddle, first sexual touch, first penetration, first sexual encounter, first sex marathon, first domination)
Society used to adequately track the developmental milestone of "first sex marathon"? A good portion of what you're saying is accurate but filling it with this type of bullshit shows how much you're blinded by the peculiarities of your own era.
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This sort of attitude has only caught on in Japan because your average east Asian woman is a literal 3/10.
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>>11124827
The funny thing about Rei is that most rip offs of her were portrayed as "moe" or cutesy, even though Rei was dry and monotone throughout the entire original series and even the Rebuild movies that had more fanservice funnily enough.
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I like 2D girls because I can't get a 3D girl and 2D lets me simulate that in an idealized manner. There's really nothing more to it.
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>>11150702
Why did Japan get to that point way faster than the west though?

It always seemed strange to me how Japan jumped on the 2D bandwagon way back in the early 80s with the alien from Urusei Yatsura, while it's still a fairly niche idea in the west still.
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>>11150710
Who knows. I wish this kind of shit was available natively in English instead of only in a foreign language.
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>>11122793
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>>11150710
I think there are certain viewpoints that are culturally divergent here that render it impossible in the west. For example, as a male consumer of a piece of media, it would be normal to want something that has lots of cute girls in it, wouldn't it? But something like that in the west is invariably for women. Likewise romance as a genre is restricted to women, but men are just as capable of the same types of emotion and can equally enjoy experiencing them vicariously. But in otaku media you can see the inverse of this western trend, where if a piece of media includes primarily females with a romance focus, then it's created for men. Why it's like this I don't know.
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>>11124537
Overall good post, but "perversion" in psychoanalysis refers to all types of redirection of sexual energy from procreative sex to some secondary object. In a psychoanalytic context it's not necessarily bad.

Also, the way I understand Lacan (someone feel free to correct me if this is wrong) the phallus has the role of signification and represents the attempt to close or complete the symbolic order. It seeks to overcome, "penetrate," into the real and possess it. The truth, however, is that the symbolic order is open, "non-all," and so every attempt to overcome the real results in failure, which is called castration. It is for this reason that Lacan attributes greater depth to the feminine than the masculine, because the feminine non-all is the truth of the real.

Of course, I haven't read the book so maybe his special use is sexist.
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>>11133434
This is the exact opposite of analysis. Sure, we can break everything down to ever more specific terms and sub-terms for ever, like Borges's man who couldn't forget, but to come to an understanding of a thing means we have to strive to develop larger and more encompassing categories which explains how things relate to each other and at what point they become identical.
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bump
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>>11136934
>muh hierarchy and adequate human beings
Seriously though, if you think anime=high school romances, or that all anime otaku, let alone all otaku, are into high school romances, you know next to nothing about what you're talking about. There are dozens of other "perversions" otaku indulge obsessively in besides fantasizing about high school. Hell, even loli isn't the same thing. High school is simply a convenient convention in Japanese animation. There's even been a recent influx of college/early workforce centered anime, as well as more American oriented, "mature" stuff thanks to globalisation.

Your criticism has already been put out to the point of nausea by people in the industry for decades now, anyway.
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>>11124537
He doesn't necessarily categorise perversion/deviance as a negative thing, just as, well, a deviance from 'normal' human behavior.
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>>11146214
if anything, a high iq tyrant is the only one who could prevent that from happening
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Anime girls are how I cope with my weird sexuality developed through traumatic early childhood sexual experiences and social isolation. I don't know how I could live without silly coping mechanisms like anime and escapism. Is it even worth breaking out of?
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>>11152821
Let's be real for a moment, is there anyone that doesn't have to "cope" with reality?




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