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Is it just me imagining things, or was Mikazuki (and the rest of Tekkadan by extension) actually a mediocre pilot carried by a technological crutch and a technologically superior machine?

Now, I'm biased because I didn't like IBO and was firmly rooting for team Meat halfway into S2, but a large reason why I didn't like Tekkadan was because I was really unimpressed by Mikas piloting and development as an ace. Because the fucker never actually gits gud at gundams.

Now, this can be partially blamed on the poor action direction in IBO. It's pretty apparent that no one involved in the directing of the show new how to script a good action scene, and the animators couldn't actually animate it anyway, but still, if you actually inspect Mika's accomplishments in the plot, you'll notice:
>Mika's opponents in S1 were sort of bad at piloting. Mika fights against some juiced up idiot, an old man, Gallio and Carta
>he struggled against Ein (a newbie pilot) in a commander Graze
>The only legitimate threat he fought was Graze-Ein (same newbie, now crazy and still in a modified Graze) demanded plothax for him to win.

In S2, Mika doesn't even fight anyway worthy of note. I won't count mechabirdo since the "mechanics" of the fight made it that Mika was the only guy sitting in a machine that could actually engage the bird (and it was a stupid bird with a fast tail, not exactly a thinking ace pilot). Meanwhile, when he faced off against Vidar (the only guy with a machine with matching specs), he got sort of shat on (presumably because the Gallio-Ein combo and McGillis were actually skilled pilots).

Anyway, my point is, was it really that surprising that Mika struggled against Monkey? The guy was an overhyped shitter sitting inside the fastest performing car on the racing track.

Now, this thread will turn into a IBO shitposting thread, but can we at least focus on shitting on everyone's piloting skills by discussing if they were actually talented pilots or not?
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>Guts double-teams Amida and Azee in a field-repaired Graze
>Amida styles on Julietta's super special custom mech
>Guts constantly slays a bunch of Grazes offscreen in every engagement after he gets a Gundam
>doesn't need to constantly upgrade his suit
Akihiro was a cool guy. Eh fought Gjallarhorns and didn't affraid of anything.
>>
That is actually correct.

In Episode 5, McGillis mentions that their aiming systems do not recognize the dodging patterns etc... Meaning that the pilots of normal MS are relying on a lot of automated functions for their controls.

Because of the system Mikazuki has, he moves more like a human body and the system cannot compute that properly. So because of this, even at long ranges his movement was superior, but especially moreso in close quarters.

So the pilots who fought anyone with the Alaya-Vijnana seemed like bad pilots... but anyone of them that did well was likely a good-great pilot... but just got destroyed by the overwhelming advantage the Alaya-Vijnana system gave the other pilot.
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>>16142336
>a mediocre pilot carried by a technological crutch and a technologically superior machine?

That's literally almost every Gundam MC that has ever been save the ones from shows where Gundams are fucking everywhere.
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>>16142368

Yeah, but most pilots actually improve on their piloting skills as the series progress. Most dramatically with Amuro, who becomes "taking down fresh prototypes using only carrier plane" badass, but even less amazing pilots such as Kamille (who was just terrible at aiming) show a marked progression from "rookie in a fast car" to "ace in a fast car".

This is usually accompanied by the bad guys getting suits that can actually match up to the titular Gundam as the series progress. At the end of S2, the only two guys with equipment to match Mika were busy having fighting each other while Mika got shat on by a bunch of goons with guns.
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>>16142392
I'll pin their "improvement" on the fact that they're both newtypes.
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>>16142392
It's really a testament to the Asshimar and Buran that Amuro had to be the one to take it down.
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>>16142397
Whatever you say.
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>>16142397

And Alaya-Vijnana was basically newtype powers in IBO.

And through the whole series, Mika was having a hard time against oldtypes piloting suits with weaker performance.

The sad part is that in s1 they tried to show Mika improving on his skills by giving him a katana, WHICH HE ENDED UP ABANDONING SINCE BLADED WEAPONS WERE TOO DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO USE

That's actually sort of sad.
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>>16142410
When your style is focused around smashing the opponent into submission, a more precision minded weapon is kinda an unneeded handicap.
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>>16142419

And no doubt it wasn't intentional by the authors to show Mikas skills actually declining and becoming more dependent on Barbatos souped up specs as the show progressed. That's just how things ended up appearing when you actually dissect what happens in the plot.

The club was another crutch that Mika employed since Barbatos' superior motor strength allowed to maul grazes left and right. And since Mika never meets any real challenges, he's never forced to reevaluate, adapt or evolve his tactics and skills.

Well, expect that one time when he couldn't take out Monkey in time and he ended up failing everyone in Tekkadan.

So maybe Mika being a mediocre pilot being memed into greatness was intentional all along?
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>>16142358
I think the comparison for the enemy pilots would be a tank gunner using his tank gunning training to hit other tanks using his FCS, except while fighting a plane.
Absurd, unexpected mobility due to the Alaya-Vijnana system.
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>>16142336
God that bloody eye looks so fucking awfully animated. It looks like a fucking job done in GIMP.
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>>16142336
This isn't actually that far off, It's noted by several characters that the AV system makes piloting far easier, for example during the first battle on earth Akihiro consistently missed shots with the Gusion because he wasn't taking the atmosphere into account, while Lafter and Azee told him how to compensate via technical details, Mikazuki told him to follow the feeling in his Av implant, after which his accuracy dramatically improved. That said it's mentioned that the Shiden's in the second season lacked the Av system with the exception of Shino's. So from the second season on the Shiden Pilots weren't using their Av implants.
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>>16142336
>team Meat
>Monkey
Huh?
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>>16142447
>The club was another crutch

>the tactic that works successfully against just about every enemy you face is a crutch because it's too easy

That's literally the definition of scrub talk.
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>>16142404
>ALL UNITS RETREAT
Why? The Asshammer wasn't even badly damaged, and Amuro doesn't have another plane to ram him with. Even if the Asshammer losing a foot takes him out of the fight, why should anyone else retreat?
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>>16142509
In one of their earliest scenes, Rustal, Iok, and Julieta leave after a Gjallarhorn meeting and say something to the effect of "Let's go eat some meat". Also Julieta was referred to as a monkey two or three times in s2.
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>>16142404
MY ASSHIMAR!
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>>16142574
>Amuro doesn't have another plane to ram him with
But he didn't know that, he probably just assumed that AEUG reinforcements had arrived and keep fighting in a damage unit will be unfavorable for him.
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>>16142336
Lots of Tekkadan members had AV systems, and Mika and Akihiro were considered the best among them. Maybe "best" isn't the right word...he's the most effective. The thing about Mikazuki is that he's entirely straightforward. He's extremely quick, and in an extremely quick machine that hits really hard, but he's not a tactical thinker at all. Being absolutely straightforward can be a highly effective tactic if you're fast enough and hit hard enough, and that's exactly what Mikazuki did. Against other people who are fighting on a basic level that's all you need: keep the pressure on and don't give the enemy time to think about what to do. The problem is that when you go up against someone who *is* tactically minded you're completely predictable.
It's not that he isn't a good pilot, it's that he's pretty stupid. He's a fast, ruthless, precise retard, but he's still a retard. I don't say that to bash him, I thoroughly enjoyed the show and liked him a lot, but the kid could lose a game of tic-tac-toe to a cabbage.
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>>16142336

This is entirely true. The AV system is just such a massive advantage. The reason why most people are poor pilots is because they're piloting the way you'd fly a plane. A user with AV basically has the plane *as his body*, which gives him a massive advantage. Even someone who's not really trained would run rings around a more experienced pilot, unless the latter was incredibly good.
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>>16142336
>Now, this thread will turn into a IBO shitposting thread, but can we at least focus on shitting on everyone's piloting skills by discussing if they were actually talented pilots or not?
I think the only good pilot was Mikazuki to be honest- But Nagai said a competent pilot would have been able to dodge the attack from space so he was implying Mika and everybody else was shit. But who cares about Nagai opinion?
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>>16142807
I mean, they had to stay still for at least 10 minutes after they shot, otherwise they could have simply walked a few meters to completely avoid it since the lances didn't travel instantlyotherwise Tekkadan,Gjallarhorns and even their based would have been vaporised in a city clearing blast
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>>16142807
It's really hard to take anything Nagai says post-show seriously seeing as how he's just been throwing a bitchfit since he had to compromise on the ending.
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>>16142336
Don't forget that Tekkadan took just about every opportunity to fight dirty vs Gjallarhorn's "Muh Honor and Tradions".

It's super apparent once Rustal took charge and just went "Fuck it, bring out the super-illegal railguns."
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Mikazuki is good pilot in asense that he is greatly compatible with AV system. He got 3 whiskers while everyone else mostly only has one.

Macky is the best in terms of full skill. He fought on par against that cheat machine Kimaris Vidar.
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>>16142807
>a competent pilot would have been able to dodge the attack from space
Doesn't that just make everyone else even more shit, since Mika and Akihiro were still two of the best pilots within the show? Granted, they did rely on AV, as the OP mentions.
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>>16142404
Amuro was just batshit retarded in Zeta though. Predicting with enough time in advance to relay commands and tell people how many degrees to adjust their aim to take out MS that neither of them could even see through cloud cover.
>>
Dude, spatial awareness.
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>>16142847
Did they ever explain why he need to take three or is that just an excuse to make him some kind of special snowflake character?
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>>16142897
He did it because he wanted to be strong for Orga. I don't think they outright say that, but I'm pretty sure Orga tells Kudelia he took 2 extra whiskers of his own will?
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>>16142897
>to make him some kind of special snowflake character

He basically lucked out in managing to take 3 operations without any one of them crippling him.
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>>16142368
Setsuna was able to kick ass in a flag post Season2 and he ends the series in an Exia.
Amuro also was able to be pretty decent in the Dijei and the biplane.
Also Flit went to war in a mobile suit 3 generations behind and still almost genocided an entire faction.
Sei can hold his own in the Build MkII and a damaged SBS.
Bellri was decent in the grimorie he piloted.
Shinn could probably do good in a fighter.
Judau used a bunch of stuff in ZZ
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>>16142368
>save the ones from shows where Gundams are fucking everywhere.
>Cites Zeta, ZZ, Age, SEED Destiny, and motherfucking Build Fighters.
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>>16143020
Zeta,ZZ & Age each have like 3-4 gundams, I'll concede on the other two though
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>>16143010
Garrod and Tobia took down suits on foot. And Judau had that ep where he had to fly the MegaRider into battle because everyone else ran out in all the various suits. The he had to get into Hyaku Shiki and still kicked more ass than anyone just because he was the only one that could handle the ZZ worth a damn.

Course there's also Shiro in the ball.
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>>16142548
his point is still valid. mika doesn't need to improve his tactics and combat style because he can just bruteforce everything down
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>>16143031
Shiro had plot armor out the ass, though. Especially in the InvinciBall.
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>>16143010

The AGE-1 was upgraded with parts in both gens 2 & 3 to help it keep up with newer units. I also don't remember Bellri doing much except flying from the Megafauna to a beach to meet the G-Self in the Grimoire.
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>>16142672
But you can't even compare him to other AV users because he had three of the damn things. If he were total shit then it'd be unusual, but he's meant to be superior because I guess he got lucky in the Dolphin Rape Hole surgery.
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>>16143073

There's probably meant to be an element of willpower or determination in surviving the whisker surgery, especially multiple times. Something akin to the idea that if he'd been afraid or given in to pain during it, then he'd have died but he didn't and lived through more than anyone.
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>>16142336
That's not the point.
The point is that he's psycho who will willingly throw his life away to actually feel alive, and killing himself and others in this Gundam allows him to do so.
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>>16142447
No they rubbed it in your face that Mika was great.

McGillis ended up looking amazing after he beat down Gaelio easily, who was able to hold his ground against Mika.
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>>16142447
>So maybe Mika being a mediocre pilot being memed into greatness was intentional all along?
Of course it was.
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>>16143024
ZZ had a fucking Gundam Team, man. And except the ZZ itself they were all Zeta leftovers.
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>>16143042
But if it isn't broken why should one change working methods when lives are at stake?
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>>16143151
Yeah and it only had 3 gundams, 1 of which was already mass produced by then.
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>>16142548

The reason why the club was a "crutch" is that it's a working strategy only as long as you assume you'll be fighting inferior opponents in inferior suits (Grazes), because as soon as you actually face someone who knows how to fucking dodge and juke, the club becomes a liability.

This makes one heavy assumption though, and that heavy assumption is that the club was affected by real life physics (aka: the club was heavy, that made it slow and unwieldy).

There's no guarantee real life physics was something that was ever considered by the directors.

Anyway, this would have explained why Mika had such a hard time with Monkey. The club was too slow to catch her as she juked him.
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>>16143051

In the case of Bellri, you can best compare his skill to everyone else by comparing how he fared in the G-self compared to Aida and Raraiya, and by comparing how he fared against Mask once Mask had access to Venus tech.

My personal conclusion is that unused perfect backpack hacks aside, the G-self wasn't that amazing of a suit.Bellri (heck, Aida managed to get herself captured by literal dock working units while piloting it). Bellri was very good at utilizing the tools given to him though, making him a power modifier for the G-self.
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>>16143397
I thought the Rayhunton Code caused the G-Self to not function right against Bellri when Aida used it?
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>>16143392
I get what you're trying to get at here, but if Monkey can dodge one melee weapon (a club) then why the fuck wouldn't she be able to dodge another melee weapon (swords, axes, Lupus Rex's tail)?

Blunt weapons are especially effective in PD because of nanolaminate paint, making it easier to damage something just by whacking it really hard than it is to try to cut through an opponent's armor - Mika's experience with using the katana and real life medieval warfare shows this. Characters like McGillis and Gaelio display better piloting ability via their success with swords, as it's simply harder to reliably slice an enemy's armor/joints than it is to just hit them with a solid piece of dense metal. Essentially, Macky and Discount Garma prove themselves to be comparatively better pilots than Mikazuki, because they achieve similar/greater results while using less suitable weapons.
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>>16143407

Rayhunton code made the G-Self not use its saber properly.

Though honestly it was mostly Aida sucking balls at piloting. She couldn't fight of Dellesen or Mask as well. The rest was her making excuses.

Fa could have taken Aida in a fight.

>>16143412

That's what I'm saying when I say "assuming physics is a heavy assumption", because there's no telling if the directors assumed basic physics.

If we did, logically speaking, the katana would have been a lighter weapon that didn't rely on momentum as much to damage the opponent. This would have made it much harder to run away from and avoid the Barbatos' attacks, since it presumably was the faster machine before factoring in equipment.

Speaking of Gaelio and McGillis, it's weird how IBO even gives us litmus tests for what it looks like when actually competent pilots get their hands on gundams and the alaya-vijnana.
>Graze-ein was completely shitting on Mika until Mika manages to uncap his gundam to give him an even larger advantage against the souped up graze
>Vidar kicked Mika around as if he were a grunt
>McGillis ended up destroying several ships as he soloed Rustals fleet.
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>>16143429
>McGillis ended up destroying several ships as he soloed Rustals fleet.
It's funny because even the blonde cutie was still a moron without a plan B
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Who was the best pilot in IBO?
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Mika is pretty good with AV.

Remember he took done someone who was completly assimilated with the system and the Hashmal who was said to be extremly fast. He only fail to kill Monkey while dying and in a half-destroyed gundam. In the end only Galli and McGillis are on his level. Galli has access to a weird new AV while McGillis is just that good. We should at least have seen a longer battle between Mika anw Galli to judge who's the best.

Would Mila be as good without AV? I doubt it, since he keep cripling himself for a better sync with it.
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>>16143481
McGillis. He's good without AV and with it he's just a monster. Remember that his gundam was a piece of shit with only two small swords and he still almost got McGillis who had both better AV and MS
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>>16143486
>Remember that his gundam was a piece of shit with only two small swords and he still almost got McGillis who had both better AV and MS

> still almost got McGillis who had both better AV and MS
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>>16143489
Fuck I mean Galieo.
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>>16142807
Oh come on, neither Mika nor Akihiro saw what was coming until they realized it.
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>>16143491
o gundam vs exia repair 2 redux, except we actually can call it a fight (o gundam and ribbons are fucked tech and experience-wise).
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>>16143784
>o gundam and ribbons are fucked tech and experience-wise
What?

00 made it pretty clear that Ribbons was the superior pilot. Reborns didn't have the Hax that the 00-Raiser did, and it still won out in the end.
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>>16143397

The G-Self even without the perfect pack could deploy beam shadows and shit if I recall; it was pretty powerful, even within the setting. More than that, Bellri wasn't exactly walking all over Mask once Mask got roughly equivalent tech, so I don't really see where the idea Bellri was a power modifier for it is coming from.

>>16143822

Reborns couldn't generate as much power as the 00 Raiser, but Ribbons compensated by adding as many weapons and systems as he could to the point the Reborns was stronger in a straight up fight since it didn't need a second pilot in the back stabilizing output and could execute all range attacks. Also, the entire point of the finale is that Setsuna is the superior pilot I'd imagine since it's both pilots placed in old machines that are roughly equivalent in power (both have one GN drive) and weapons (both are limited to just swords).
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>>16142336
>The protagonist not only fails to develop as a character, but also as a pilot.

Why do people like this again?
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>>16143822

That was a draw at best. He hacked off one of 00's drives, but Reborns craps out due to damage almost immediately afterwards.
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>>16144641
00R still had quantization teleportation and the Exia also had the GN drive's unlocked limiter and a longer reach with its sword.
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>>16144641

Supposedly Ribbons would have been the superior pilot but he spent the years since his 0 Gundam missions sitting on his ass not trying to develop his skills, because he figured his Quantum Brainwaves and Innovade status were enough.

Kind of like a reverse Jesus Yamato.
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>>16143051

AGE-1 had it's parts and generator constantly upgraded so it wouldn't fall behind output wise but it's specs never really got better, to the point that by Gen 3 it really couldn't compete with the Vegan MS's until they actually started improving it's weaponry.
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>>16144693

The quantization is basically cancelled out by the ability to attack at any distance through funnels. I haven o idea what the GN drives unlocked limiter is, since the only limiter I can recall is trans-am and both units should be capable of that while a shorter sword doesn't make it a worse sword, since different lengths can be an advantage or disadvantage dependent on style and personal preference.
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>>16144710

You cannot improve a units parts and generator without improving it's specs. The show also literally says that the performance was improved. Not the output; the performance. It still needed a weapon upgrade by Gen 3 to keep up with Vagan suits, but even by Gen 3 it was capable of tanking large attacks with minor damage at the very least.
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>>16144711
The unlocked limiter is when the three clasps on the Exia's drive cone open up and it starts producing rings of particles similar to what the 00 could do.

The longer reach definitely made a difference when they decided to just charge at each other with swords pointed forward.
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>>16142336
Ein is the GOAT. The guy was amazingly competitive with a fucking Graze. He's the Maximilian Jenius of IBO.
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>>16142506
not to mention he had a hard time piloting the AV-less graze they captured.

AV is pretty much a double edged sword. it enables pilots to get good at their equipped units easily but piloting solely on AV leaves you ill prepared using AV-less units.
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>>16142350
Still disappointed his exploits got pushed to the side for more shots of Mika going "Huh." mid-battle.
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>>16143010
>Setsuna
Started out in a superior machine. Already experienced pilot in S02 and there were several Gundams in that show.

>Amuro
Started out in a superior machine. Demonstrated a growth arc in 0079 and Zeta started out with him already as the most famous veteran of the OYW.

>Flit
Started out in a superior machine. Also the whole gimmick of the show was that it was one long growth arc.

>Sei
Gundams were all over the place. The whole show stresses the importance of having a good platform. I can't believe you even brought this one up.

>Bellri
Started out in a superior machine. Also it should be mentioned that he was cadet pilot at the start of the show so he's had some experience in a cockpit.

>Shinn
SD had several Gundams.

>Judau
He starts off in the Zeta for chrissake and almost immediately gets the ZZ right after.
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>>16144727

If longer reach was the sole determinant in straight forward clashes tall boxers, fencers etc. would never lose. Parrying, feinting and guarding at the very least can be used to void that advantage even if you can't avoid it. Not to mention that Setsuna was the one moving forward while Ribbons stood still and raised his sword. If reach was a worry then he shouldn't have tried to get in his own attack without defending in the first place and failure to do so reflects on his skill, not inherent advantage. I'm not sure that the GN beam saber is actually longer regardless looking at that scene. When they're clashing both swords look about the same length overall.

Also, while Setsuna's GN drive lets out a series of concentric circles, Ribbons lets out a pattern of it's own too. It's not the same pattern, but he's definitely doing something with his because GN drives normally just let out a loose field of sparkles and the O Gundam there is releasing a large jet thrust. It's not as big as the Exias, but there's definitely something happening. Which would make sense really, since the O Gundam not being capable of releasing that limiter would be weird. It's kind of besides the point anyway, since the Exia is literally just running and jumping and Ribbons very obviously has time to react. The outcome of that moment is down to skill (or luck, if you want), not technology.
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So, try'na watch G in Reconguista on my PS4, didn't have to convert the files I downloaded, but for some reason, on my PS4, they're white with no black outline. Can barely even see them in most scenes. How the hell do I fix that?
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>>16144683
Because he's not the protagonist. Orga is. And Orga's development, and the consequences of it, is straight up tragic. That's uh, that's kinda the point bro.
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>>16142392
Theres a pattern to this in most of the older UC Gundams.
In 0079 Amuros gundam is basically the strongest suit in the series by far, at a point where he often gets bailed out by its ridiculously strong armor or ability to oneshot any ms with beam weapons. However, Amuro uses the crutch as a chance to train and develop as a pilot and newtype. Then to make things interesting again, Zeon introduces the Gelgoog and Zeong to make fights uncertain.

In Zeta, Kamille has the mark 2 and crutches on it until he learns how to aim. He eventually develops as a pilot until new enemy prototypes like the psycho, O and quebley show up and challenge him again and he gets the zeta to compete.

In ZZ its kind of the same thing, with Judeau going thru the Zeta to the ZZ

In CCA its a bit different because Amurois already godtier, but he follows the latter half of the cycle where he goes from being outgunned in the re-GZ to being in an arguably better suit than char in the Nu
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>>16145110

> Then to make things interesting again, Zeon introduces the Gelgoog and Zeong to make fights uncertain.

The Gundam is already pretty evenly matched at the latest by mid show or so during the Atlantic Crossing when Zeon starts using mobile armors and underwater suits with beam weaponry. Even before that Amuro is being pushed because the Gouf's heat whip slices through the Gundam's armor without issue when it's introduced and he has trouble keeping up with it despite the armor because it's powerplant is more powerful than the Zakus.

> he goes from being outgunned in the re-GZ to being in an arguably better suit than char in the Nu

The Nu and Sazabi are essentially equal machines. That's kind of the point. Char gives Anahaim Electronics the psycoframe so that the Nu is equal because he wants to beat Amuro when neither has an advantage.
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>>16145110
CCA is pretty particular in that, while Amuro has grown even stronger, Char hasn't since the end of Zeta, or at least reached the end of his potential but refuses to admit it. I'd say the Nu is actually inferior to the Sazabi, considering how patched together it is, but Amuro's victory over Char is still decisive.
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>>16143024
Zeta only had two: the Mk II and the Zeta.
There were three Mk IIs at the start of the show, but one got sent to Anaheim and the other got stripped down to be spare parts for the one Kamille was piloting.
Unless you're also counting Psyco Gundam for some reason.
Also AGE mostly only had one Gundam at a time. The third arc only had four at the same time when Flit rolled the old one out again for the final battle. It was just AGE-3 and AGE-2 Dark Hound at the start, then they added Gundam Legillis, then AGE-3 got replaced by AGE-FX. Also during most of the third arc the three active Gundams were each in use by a separate faction. And since there's only a total of 5 Gundams over a period of 50 years it's hardly "gundams everywhere".
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>>16145132

> Nu
> patched together

It's really not. When Amuro goes to collect it it's basically finished bar calibrating the psycoreceiver for the psycoframe, which Amuro leaves incomplete when Londo Bell summons him. Something that bites him in the ass later, because it's too sensitive and reacts despite lack of intention, which sets off Gyunei and ends up killing Kayra. Beyond that, all it needed was time to fully equip and Amuro and Chan just got AE to rush that along.>>16145155
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>>16145163
Yeah I misspoke, the calibration was what I was getting at, the Sazabi's funnels were pretty much perfectly under Char's control in comparison.
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>>16145182

The Nu's were fine too, just overly sensitive to stray thoughts. And even that only affected Amuro or the plot in that one instance. It's not like it was a major issue he was constantly compensating for. Them being too sensitive to stray thoughts didn't matter most of the time because he was focused enough that stray thoughts or desires weren't an issue.
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>>16144745
>16144745
Akihiro actually did extremely well all things considered, keep in mind that the fight with the Turbines was his second time piloting with minimal training, In comparison to Azee And Amida both being experienced pilots, keep in mind that Monkey who gave Mikazuki some trouble was completely curbstomped by Amida while She was using a state of the art machine in comparison to Amida's Hyakuren which while a prototype and superior to the typical Hyakuren, was still inferior performance wise.
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>>16145186
I think they were still rather lacking though, due to their lack of an ability to recharge their batteries. At least, I think I'm remembering that right, as something that the Hi-Nu had over the Nu. Not sure if the Sazabi's funnels could do the same actually, but I do think I remember Char using them pretty extensively.
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>>16143397
>comparing how he fared against Mask once Mask had access to Venus tech.
He got his MS trashed by a inferior suit even though he was loaded up to his teeth with new tech in the perfect pack, I honestly think Bellri is a pretty shitty pilot that got carried by his MS alone and when the enemy started to close the gap he got fucked
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>>16145193

The Nu's funnels had built in generators and could use that built in generator to construct an energy shield effective against physical and beam projectiles; something the Sazabis could not do. It can't recharge it's funnels, but it doesn't need to recharge them given the on board generator so it's a rather moot point.
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>>16144838
There is also the fact that in that very moment both knew that one of them wasn't going to walk away from there so they just settled for the sword clash
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>>16145203
That was it! I remember it being such a weirdly particular but unnecessary detail
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>>16145192
i like how they inverted the amuro ramba thing with amida and julietta.
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>>16145210

What seems unnecessary to me is the Hi-Nu apparently can recharge it's funnels despite having on board generators too. Are it's funnels just insanely power hungry or something?
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>>16145255
I wonder if that was a translation error and it was meant to be a refueling rack. I could certainly see the flannels running out of propellant.
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>>16144641

>More than that, Bellri wasn't exactly walking all over Mask once Mask got roughly equivalent tech, so I don't really see where the idea Bellri was a power modifier for it is coming from.

Mask and Klim Nick where the most accomplished pilots in "ordinary" suits. If Bellri could still stand up against Mask once the odds were evened out, it means Bellri was legitimately among the top three most skilled aces of the story.

>>16145200

In their final showdown, Bellri barely had energy left to jump around with the G-self and he was tactically handicapped since he didn't want to shoot Mask to death, forcing him to abstain from the beam rifle and killing blows with the saber.

Bellri's skills were legit, but he used them to avoid killing whenever possible.

>>16145110

>Kamille learned how to aim

Guy can't even hit grunt hizacks in the center of mass.
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>>16144736

True. Ein was actually my favorite character in S1 simply because he was the only guy who actually brought tension into the fight scenes by being the only guy who actually seemed competent enough to hurt Tekkadan.
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>>16145724
>Guy can't even hit grunt hizacks in the center of mass.
He took off Jerid's legs one after the other and sniped Rosamia's cockpit.
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>>16145255
>>16145210
>>16145203
Hi-Nu's fin funnel rack is for refueling the funnels, not recharging them.
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>>16145737

Jokes aside, Kamille was a surprisingly poor aim compared to Amuro and Judeau. Not only does he seemingly miss easy shots all the time, he also constantly ends up in close combat when he really should be pushing people back with his beam rifle.

The funny thing is, so is Char when you think about it. All of Zeta is Char bitching about how he can't hit shit. But when you think about it, Char in 0079 always preferred melee combat to ranged shooting.
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>>16145731
Good to see that there are people that support Ein. Most people seem to forget that Tekkadan turned down a more than reasonable offer from Crank. People also forget that in his pursuit of vengeance Ein went from a newcomer to a pilot worthy of the Schwalbe Graze (a suit reserved for ace pilots).
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>>16144832
>Started out in a superior machine
a recten?
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>>16146015
they were starting out. it's bad for their rep that their first mission, they bailed the first sign of trouble. no one's going to hire them afterwards after that if they did take crank's offer.

just how different would the show be if they chose that?

not going into space and meeting naze (and teiwaz' backing), i doubt tekkadan would've reached anything near 1/4th of their success.
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>>16145765
>Not only does he seemingly miss easy shots all the time,
Isn't that everybody in Zeta? Nobody could shoot for shit in that show.
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>>16146026

It's welder doubles as a beam rifle you know.
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>>16142336
>was it really that surprising that Mika struggled against Monkey?

When did he ever struggle against her? The closest thing to that I can think of is in the fleet battle where he's manhandling her basically the whole time and everytime he's about to finish her off her grunt reinforcements back her up so she can get away. Hell, in two of his fights against her she's so little of a threat that Mika actively disengages from fighting with her to go and fight someone else.
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>>16146015
Cranks offer was full of shit though. Even if they handed her over Coral wanted the whole base wiped out to erase the witnesses. And even after they accepted and won that duel with him he admited that they were screwed no matter the outcome.
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>>16146091
Except Coral was under investigation by McGillis and Gaelio and Crank never stated that. Crank's offer was a legitimate option for Tekkadan.
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>>16146156
During the duel Mika directly asks what happens if he wins and Crank directly admits that Gjallarhorn is going to come after them anyways.

>Coral was under investigation

Even after finding out about the corruption McGillis and Gaelio did basically nothing about it except let slip to Coral that they knew and even joined him on the mission to wipe out Tekkadan when they were trying to leave the planet because they wanted to capture kudelia for themselves.

And at the point where Crank dies the investagtion was only just starting which is why Coral sent Crank to quickly clean up the mess he left by withdrawing prematurely in the first place.
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>>16146166
>>16146156
And to further clarify, Crank had nothing to back up his claim that if they just handed Kudelia over they would be unharmed. Coral was shown to give no shits about anything Crank though multiple times during the first couple episodes and directly told Crank to just kill them (He even put a younger pilot in charge above Crank during the first mission). Similarly McGillis and Gaelio were shown multiple times to give no shit about whether Tekkadan lived or died in the first half. Gaelio actually was even shown to look down on and despise them.

The only reason Crank offered them the deal and then the duel when they turned him down was because he personally didn't want to kill any kids. Thats why when he lost the duel he was basically begging for Mika to just kill him so he wouldn't be forced to fight kids again.
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>>16145724

I don't know that I'd say that the Venus suits were equal to the G-Self, especially after it gets the perfact pack. Bellri still has quite a few weapons none of them have in the photon missiles, full body lasers, copy/paste shield and so on. In the final showdown he uses several weapons none of the other suits he's fighting have either, including the tractor beam and track fin funnel to help finish things. His suit was running out of energy, but he was never struggling just to jump or to power what weapons he did have.

>>16146015

> Most people seem to forget that Tekkadan turned down a more than reasonable offer from Crank.

What reasonable offer? He came offering a duel, they accepted and Mika won. NotHitler wanted to offer Kudelia for money instead of the duel, but Crank never offered a pardon or anything for Kudelia. Even if Crank had he didn't have any way of enforcing it and Orga didn't believe he was trustworthy (which he wouldn't have been) so he had good cause to refuse it.
>>
>Crank has the forces withdraw from the first fight as soon as he can, tries to negotiate with his superiors, offers deals he can't really keep, and in the end asks the enemy to just shoot him.
>All in order to not be forced to kill children which he believed was wrong.
>Ein, the man who viewed Crank as a father figure and practically worships his memory to the point of obsession makes it his life's mission to hunt down and kill children while contuing to work for the organization that forced Crank into that position in the first place.

This was honestly the funniest part of the first season.
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>>16146204

>he was never struggling to jump

Oh yeah, now when I think about, wasn't the problem that he could only jump, even though the perfect backpack should be able to fly (as it should have the functions of the flight pack as well). That's why he couldn't continue running away from Mask.
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>>16146240

Yea, he did fly for part of the episode, but he eventually ran low on power so he could do fairly high jumps but couldn't full on fly. He could still power the photon-searcher among other things, but he could no longer fly.
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>>16146251

Ah yeah, then it makes sense again.

I've only watched G-reco three times, I was pretty sure the running out of batteries was a pretty big deal for some reason
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>>16146254

Well I suppose it was in that it meant he couldn't endlessly spam the omni-directional laser or photon missiles and couldn't fly away from Mask as he pleased, but it didn't cripple him on it's own either.
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>>16146265

Most importantly I guess it meant he couldn't disable him with the tractor beam, which was his best nonlethal option.
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>>16146015
Ein was a good concept for a tragic and sympathetic antagonist, but he was a one note character in execution. Jerid had more developed reasons to hate Kamille, and even at his worst was more reasonable than Ein BEFORE Ein went insane.

But Crank's offer was without any guarantee, and after his comrades already killed children in Tekkadan.
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>>16144641
>Bellri wasn't exactly walking all over Mask once Mask got roughly equivalent tech
Was the Kabakali supposed to be equivalent to the Perfect Pack G-self? Cause it seemed like it was a lot less agile than the Mack Knife had way fewer weapons, sacrificed leg utility just for a ballute system and it's ring weapons seemed easy enough to shoot down.
Seemed to me Mask only lasted that long against Bellri in that thing because Bellri was actively avoiding him and using energy to fight suits like the Mazraster.
I mean before they came to earth Bellri defeated Mask pretty soundly using just the tractor beam.
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>>16146224
>>16146294

The weird thing is Ein constantly rants about how Crank wanted to help them and they spat in his horonable offer and at no point does anyone in Tekkadan point out that Crack dueled them, they accepted and they had a deal that Ein and the rest of his crew were ignoring. The closest is Mika telling him Crank wanted to die and that was only after he angered him more by forgetting who Crank even was.

I know it's typical in anime for people to just fight it out rather than try to clear up any misunderstandings or try to excuse themselves for their actions, but still you'd think Tekkadan would want to save themselves uneeded grief.
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>>16142358
It's like controller vs Kb+M in a FPS
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>>16146342
Its not like anyone in Gjallarhorn except McGillis was willing to listen to them anyways. Ein certainly wouldn, he didn't even care about what Crank would have wanted at that point. He just wanted to make himself feel better by getting revenge and recovering a momento from them.
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>>16145731
>>16144736
>>16146015

For the claims of Ein being a good pilot, he couldn't even do more than keep Shino busy during Shino's first ever sortie in an ms, and Shino was shown to struggle against even grunts in S1 despite having an AV system installed in the Graze and to be using only the basic graze weapons while Ein's schwalbe had that lance that's specifically supposed to be for anti-nanolaminate combat. Ein was only good when he went so far AV that he was just a torso in a tank. The only reason he was even given a schwalbe was because it was a hand-me-down from Gaelio after Ein's own regular graze got trashed.
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>>16145000
Deuteragonist. Whatever.
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>>16146329
>Was the Kabakali supposed to be equivalent to the Perfect Pack G-self
It wasn't, it was inferior and had far less weapons than Perfect Pack and still managed to disable all of his weapons with his shotgun and yo yos
>>
>Pampered rich kid who knew no hardship.
>Couldn't even beat up a manlet outside of their ms.
>Talked shit about cripples and people with AV.
>Only apologizes after his beloved subordinate and himself have to get AV and prosthetics to save their lives.
>Used his rank and family name to jump from unit to unit in order to chase a bunch of kids because they made him look stupid and to help out his subordinate who keeps muttering about how he wants to kill children.
>Followed the ass of a crazy chick who was so obsessed with a pedo she created a harem of lookalikes.
>Let himself be talked into turning his subordinate into an insane monster and symbol of hypocrisy shockingly easily.
>Had his dying/dead subordinate's brain scooped out and used as a strain/stress sponge in a new AV system so that it's basically constantly in pain just so he can get a short combat boost.
>Ends up straining it so hard he fries the brain in the end, never shows any remorse.
>Instead of just exposing McGillis right away he waited until McGilis had almost seized control because he was too wishy washy to actually go against his former friend despite literally being stabbed by him while the guy bragged about how he was going to fuck his sister and admitted to orchestrating the death of the crazy chick he liked.
>His baseless suggestion about why McGillis may be interested in a mobile armor led to Iok jumping the gun and fucking everything up.
>Sided with the guys whose enacted war crimes, killed fleeing women and babies, and used illegal weapons.
>Even had the illegal weapons installed on his own gundam.
>Traded the vidar equipment for that hideous kimaris vidar.
>His greatest accomplishment all series was killing a pedo manchild who was buttsexed as a kid and had essentially already lost (And despite an overwhelming advantage he still almost lost).
>Only got as far as he did because the writer was schlicking to his VA

Gaelio was the most garbage human in the whole series.
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>>16146329
>>16146389

Yeah, the Kabakali by itself wasn't equal to the perfect backpack. In their final fight, Bellri has wasted so much energy that he could no longer access the gimmicks that made the G-self with perfect backpack superior.

In that scenario, Mask was actually slightly stronger, since he could still use his beam rifle while Bellri couldn't (since it was likely to kill Mask).
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>>16142336
>Is it just me imagining things, or was Mikazuki (and the rest of Tekkadan by extension) actually a mediocre pilot carried by a technological crutch and a technologically superior machine?

In a way, yes. MS are said to be so complex that learning to pilot them takes time and education. Most Human Debris (re: slaves) don't even know how to read so they need A/V just to make the things move.

>he struggled against Ein (a newbie pilot) in a commander Graze
Mind, Ein was handpicked for a reason and Mika had only seen a mobile suit earlier that week. The fact that Mika beat Crank, a veteran pilot, in a dual speaks to his skill.
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>>16146401
>could no longer access the gimmicks that made the G-self with perfect backpack superior.
But he could? He used his funnels and photon tractor and Mask just went disabling everything
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>>16146430

Since Kabakali also had a pair of yoyo's, I sort of figured they were even on that front.

As for the photon tracer, that wasn't a weapon.
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>>16146423
>Ein was handpicked for a reason

From what I remember the reason given was that Ein was a newbie pilot and Coral wanted him to get some easy combat experiance.
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>>16146394
I wonder where McGillis truly fucked up.
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>>16146031
Zeta was when the whole "gotta go fast" meta comes into play, because armor starts being useless thanks to beam weapons, which is sort of a trend in UC. Feds and Zeeks develop beam machine guns just to spam as many beams as possible by 0093, and then Late UC has miniaturized mobile suits which shit out enough thrust to fly within the atmosphere (or have Minovsky Drives, Beam Rotors, etc).

Char probably would've gotten fucked over in Victory-era combat, but Amuro was dodgetanking ever since he gotgood at piloting. I really wish I could see the shit he could pull in an F91 or later suit.
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>>16146466
Three places.

1 - Not double tapping Gaelio.

2 - Getting too overeager and rushing his plan just because seeing a gundam kill a mobile armor gave him a woody.

3 - Having his entire plan rely on a corrupt organization that's already hypocritical and willing the circumvent their own laws following a law that says they have to listen to whoever can pilot this one specific gundam.
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>>16146466
When he started to see war orphans as role models worth emulating.
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>>16146466
When he became a character in a show written by Okada.
Alternatively, when he became a character in a show directed by Nagai.
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>>16146853
They were regular/slum orphans, not war orphans. Until the second season the ibo setting hadn't seen a war in centuries and until tekkadan fought their way to earth the most combat anyone would see is light skirmishes with pirates.
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>>16146813
I'm pretty sure Char did his fair share of newtype-enhanced evasion. The whole thing about Char dodging Amuro's beam rifle comes to mind.
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>>16146813
>but Amuro was dodgetanking ever since he gotgood at piloting. I really wish I could see the shit he could pull in an F91 or later suit.
There's the Crossbone Gundam Skull Heart manga where an Amuro battle data clone in a high end suit basically tears the good guys some new assholes until they figure out a bullshit way to beat him that doesn't quite make sense.
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>>16146401
>>16146430
>>16146434

https://youtu.be/OWp5Zoat0ow

G-Self could, and did, use most of it's gimmicks though. Even after Bellri notes that he can't keep that level of energy use up forever he still flies several times, uses the assault pack's beam rifles, funnels on two occasions and the copy/paste shield along with stopping the one armed Mazrasta using a tractor beam and searching out the rest of the Megafauna crew using the photon searcher system. Even just before noting it he uses the omni-directional beam to stop Mask's beam yo-yo's after Mask lands them around the wings of the Perfect Pack. And he still would have lost much more cleanly at least once only for a bird flew in to the Kabakali's cameras, distracting Mask long enough for his shot to miss. After watching it, it's not that the G-Self can't fly, because it very obviously does a couple of times, but that Bellri is trying not to to conserve energy.

Mask has him several times, and Bellri either gets out of it by using a system the Kabakali has no analogue of (the omni-directional laser) or through sheer luck (the bird saving him). Mask was pretty clearly the superior pilot and in an inferior suit there. Which is fine really, because Bellri isn't supposed to be the best pilot ever or anything; just a good pilot and more to the point, a good person trying to find out about the world for himself and move forward. Meanwhile, Mask is obsessed with the past, and their duel partially takes place in the ruins of UC, which is pretty fitting symbolism really.
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>>16146813
Honestly is there anyone Amuro couldn't take given roughly equal MS capabilities?
I shudder to think what he could pull off with a G-self or anything with an Alaya-Vijnaya system.
Does anyone have that one gif where it's from the point of view of a Zaku and Amuro shows up in a blur and destroys two or three suits in an instant? I'm not sure of the source of it but it's great at showing how amazing a pilot Amuro was supposed to be without the limitations of the anime medium.
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>>16146865
Sorry I had a brain fart and wrote war orphans when I meant child soldiers.

At any rate, I felt McGillis turned a very dangerous corner when he started to look up to these people as being the fulfillment of what we later on find out to be his rather off-kilter world philosophy regarding the search for power so as to seize one's own destiny. He relates way too much to a group that even the show wants you to understand is not an enviable bunch, no matter how successful they are at times.
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>>16146889
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>>16146920
That's the one, I could have sworn it wasn't "anime" though, still shows how much of a beast Amuro was.
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>>16146932
iirc it's a cutscene from the PS2 Gihren's Greed game.
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>>16146932

What episode does Amuro start counting his kills again? I should make a webm of it for future reference.
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>>16146947
>Amuro start counting his kills
Fuck you for reminding me of that one stage in Zeonic Front.
I'm going to have nightmares now...
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>>16146887
>that fucking bird
The fuck was that? Do the characters acknowledge that at all because I don't remember it at all
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>>16146982

They're kind of busy at the time, so no, no-one acknowledges it. It was just a bird that happened to be flying by at the right (or wrong, depending on your view) time More of Tomino's humor and fondness for including wildlife in the show basically I suppose. I recall people saying after G-Reco ended that Mask for all his anger couldn't bring himself to kill Bellri and pointing to a time in the finale where he had the shotgun pointed at Bellri and didn't pull for a second when he could have and I think it might have been other people not realizing the bird was there and justifying the moment through that. I could have the wrong moment though.
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>>16146887
To be fair if Bellri had just focused on fighting Mask he probably would have made short work of him in a similar fashion to how he took care of the Mazrasta, but instead insists on playing keep away, creating countless openings many of which Mask fails to exploit.
It still comes off as silly though. Bellri probably would have conserved more energy just fighting Mask head on than spending so much time dancing around him.
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>>16146920
>shiroi_akuma.webm
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>>16147003

Bellri pretty clearly resolves himself to try and take out Mask, wondering if he can't do it without hurting him inside the caves of what is probably Jaburo in the second half and Mask still takes the G-Self apart. Bellri also takes the Kabakali apart at that point, but Mask has less to work with. My favorite moment is that little kick to disarm the G-Self of it's rifle. Also, I don't see many (if any) openings Mask failed to exploit. The first time Bellri left was after using the omni-direction laser, which Mask had to retreat from. The second time he left was after the bird flew in to the Kabakali's mask, distracting Mask and leaving Bellri free to leave and after that he chases Bellri in to a cave and they fight more directly. What chances did Mask miss?
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>>16147056

Huh, after watching the webm in slow motion now that it's uploaded the Kabakali doesn't kick the rifle away; it just grabs it and throws it back. Still cool, but somewhat less so really. The motion of the leg left me thinking it was a kick.
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>>16144723
>You cannot improve a units parts and generator without improving it's specs

You very much can. Go from an old NVidia 650 to a 1080, a modern hhd to ssd and leave the old Pentium 2 processor in there. See if your performance actually increases or if things such as bottlenecks exist.
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>>16147119

> some bottlenecks still exist
> therefor nothing has changed

I guarantee if you upgraded along those lines there'd be some notable differences somewhere, even if not everything has improved.
>>
So when can we get a new series and leave Iron Blooded Failure to die? I am tired of this endless PMS circle jerking.
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>>16147131
Says the guy constantly masturbating to how much he hates ibo.
>>
IBO WAS FUCKING GAY
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>>16146015

Uh, the offer itself was shit considering how Gjallarhorn never had a legitimate reason to arrest Kudelia. Regardless of Crank's intentions, he was siding with the wrong people.

>>16143392

The S1 guidebook mentioned that killing the pilot is the easiest way to end a fight in the IBO-verse. That's because the MS frame itself is made out of an ultra-hard type of metal that's hard to destroy. The mace, partnered with Barbatos' excessive twin Ahab Reactor output and the AV system, allows Mikazuki to smash cockpits with relative ease. If you read the Graze Ground Type's description, the reason why it makes use of a lightweight sword is because the Graze's posture control system is easily burdened by carrying heavy objects.
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>>16144838
>exia vs unit 01

wat

i can't understand gundam anymore
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>>16147857
>The mace, partnered with Barbatos' excessive twin Ahab Reactor output and the AV system, allows Mikazuki to smash cockpits with relative ease
Forgive me, but that's the most implausible explanation I've heard in regards to a show about giant demon robots.
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>>16147973

Why? His machine is simply more powerful. It's the Chad of machines. We've seen that Gundams can tear Grazes apart with their bare hands: They're made of tougher materials, their twin reactors have a higher output, etcetra.

All he needs to do is to smite the fuck out of people with his mace. To give a good example, let's say a Graze's cockpit can withstand ten tons of pressure. Getting hit by Barbatos means you've getting hammered by thirty, forty tons of pressure.
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>>16147973
.... Are you at all familiar with plate armor in real life?
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>>16147975
Fair enough, my apologies.
>>16147976
I don't know technical things about plate armor, why?
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>>16148006
Plate armor was pretty comparable to the heavy armor in IBO. Human bodies just don't generate enough force to penetrate that with short bladed weapons like swords. so motherfuckers would take blunt instruments to eachother instead. In fact, if you had a sword and were up against an armored opponent the correct answer was to grab your swordalong the blade and smash that motherfucker in the eyes with the crossguard.
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>>16148007

Some people did use smaller, thinner blades and explicitly target gaps in the armor to exploit that weakness and in most cases wear an opponent down because those wounds were usually not fatal on their own. Some were, but most weren't. So Mika could have used a katana to stab and cut away at joints and so on, but smashing cockpits is quicker and simpler.
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>>16148018
That is not at all what katanas are for or good at. Blunt weapons were king of plate v plate and IBO actually handled this very correctly. But god forbid you say anything good about it.
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>>16148027

Katanas were not created for that no, but within the show that seemed to be what Mika used it for when fighting Graze Ein (at least, as far as I recall). That was a valid tactic against plate though, even if not nearly as popular or easy as blunt damage from maces, warhammers, flails and so on.
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>>16142844
>Don't forget that Tekkadan took just about every opportunity to fight dirty vs Gjallarhorn's "Muh Honor and Tradions".
Gjallajorn's Muh Honor is little more than pretense to make them seem more ideological superior, and to trick their enemies. The only character from gjallajorn who actually followed through on it was Crank
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>>16145132
The Nu has that I field though. If char had an I field it would have made a huge difference, but instead Amuro gets to disable his chest cannon with his vulcans and punch combo the sazabi to death
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>>16148455
And an I-field would have helped with solid munitions how...?
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>>16148478
He's using the wrong word. The Nu Gundam's fin funnels can produce a beam barrier like an early beam shield, not a typical combat I-field.
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>>16148480
More like a fat beam saber. That's all it was. And if Sazabi had that too you'd have some other gimmick the Nu had that the Sazabi didn't. Otherwise you just wouldn't be able to make an argument for the two of them finally going at it in equivalent machines if Sazabi had its mounted weapon advantage as well a having equal remote weapons.

No, dummies don't make enough of a difference by far.
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>>16146889
>it's great at showing how amazing a pilot Amuro was supposed to be
A good example of that for me was that brief blink and you'll miss it moment during the fight with Char in CCA when he casually dispatches a mook in literally two second to obtain a fresh gun from him.
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>>16142336
they straight up tell you that in the first episode
he's had the surgery so many times because he needs it to work as a gap-fill for his own abilities
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>>16146394
>Traded the vidar equipment for that hideous kimaris vidar.

This was his only crime, don't bully Gaelio
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>>16147959
It makes sense in context.
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>>16146394
>>16148995
>Kimaris Vidar
>hideous
You are both wrong and I'll fight you to the death on it.
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>>16148094
It's also a way for them to trick THEMSELVES. They know they are the oppressive rulers. They understand the human cost paid by the people they keep under heel. These ultimately silly traditions are part of the sophistry they use to justify their oppression.

Very similar to how colonialists justified their oppression of lands they conquered. It's fine, because they're "savages" and the're "civilising" the people they conquer and oppress.
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>>16146394
Found the Tekkafag
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>>16146394
>had half a year to explain how Gaelio survived
>say absolutely nothing
>turn Machy retarded in the last 10 episodes
>"There people! McGillis is just that retarded to not finish Gaelio off!"
Laziest writing ever.
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>>16142336
And what defines a well scripted action scene exactly? Doesn't matter what series comes out, you anons always bitch that they're terrible yet offer no suggestions.
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>>16149253
>Blunt tipped lance.
>Hideous colorscheme.
>Giant pincher looking feet that are really just high heels.
>Suddenly a katana because fuck his suit's mounted knight theme.

It was awful.
>>
>>16149613

It's a tricky subject, but I think the youtuber Rossatron does some pretty extensive studying of what good action is from different perspectives.

https://www.youtube.com/user/UFilmmaker
>>
>>16149613
>And what defines a well scripted action scene exactly
how many stars does Meltzer give it
>>
>>16149735
>cool-ass rocket lance
>slick color scheme incorporating shades of purple, white, yellow, and black, expertly accentuating the new, spiky form
>fucking DRILL KNEES
>generally acting as a blend of Gaelio's previous Kimaris and Vidar suit aesthetics, showing how he's changed over time, incorporating elements (such as a more Vidar-ish katana) of both in one suit
Taste may be subjective, but I won't take your injustices sitting down.
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>>16150550
>such as a more Vidar-ish katana

There was nothing vidar-like about the katana. Vidar used an exploding rapier for thrusting attacks and footblades based on his kimaris's old short sword. Vidars fully unique to it stuff like the pistols and rifle went completely unused towards the new kimaris as well.
>>
>>16150550

Gaelio was the only guy who actually upgrading his suit based on him accumulating experience as a pilot.

Meanwhile McGillis became obsessed with ideals over reality, while Mika kept overspecializing and simplifying his machine by removing ranged options (imagine what would have happened if Mika had a proper gun to shoot Monkey with. Then maybe not everyone would be dead right now).

Gaelio didn't become the best pilot in the show by talent or skill. He became the best pilot through sheer perseverance.
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>>16150599
>Gaelio didn't become the best pilot in the show by talent or skill. He became the best pilot through sheer perseverance.

>installs the dead brain of his subordinate to actually pilot
>perseverance
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>>16150599
All of Tekkadan basically deserved to die though.
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>>16147959
>I didn't watch the show, so I don't know what is happening in show

no shit
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>>16150599
>imagine what would have happened if Mika had a proper gun to shoot Monkey with.

The rex had the same arm guns as the lupus (which were stronger than the arm guns introduced on the form VI) but built into the arms instead of as optional equipment. Most guns in ibo were shown to be near useless anyways and far less reliable than just dashing in with a decent melee weapon.
>>
>>16150613

Then it wasn't a proper gun.
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>>16150613
Are you forgetting that the Vidar Kimaris's machine guns broke one of Bael's "unbreakable swords" which are made out of metal stronger than the gundam frame metal since it was confirmed by the setting guide that those are the same swords the Grimgerde used?
>>
I'm belatedly watching S2 right now, and I don't what the hubbub is all about.
It's alright, pretty flawed (mostly poor pacing and underdeveloped characters), but I don't see myself getting mad over this like /m/ keeps doing.
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>>16150624
And yet a direct shot from the huge cannons the rebake was using in S1 only managed to ding the armor of a graze, the graze rifle never damaged shit, and even when Iok managed to hit his opponents with his railgun during the pirate battle it did basically nothing. The only times guns ever did shit is if the plot required it to.

>>16150619
They're 200mm, the same size as the Kimaris Vidar's that broke Bael's swords.
>>
>>16150630
It starts to shit itself super hard in the second half. Everything after the mobile armor arc is a downward slide.
>>
>>16150630

You'll get mad once you realize "this is the fourth time the characters are making the same fucking points they've been making since S1. This show is an offensive waste of time".

People didn't dislike Tekkadan out of moral reasons. They disliked Tekkadan because all their scenes were a waste of time that didn't go anyway.

Hell, Iok had more character development that any member of Tekkadan in S2. And Iok was a fucking idiot.

>>16150636

Then why didn't Mika just disarm Julietta using his arm guns? Cripes the murdermidget is a shitty pilot.
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>>16150651
For the record, which fight with her are we talking about here?
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>>16150673

The one where Mika kept chasing Julietta around until she managed to throw her sword at Shino, which fucked his aim and doomed Tekkadan. Y'know, that one time when Mika was expected to deliver since he wasn't fighting some stupid juice monster, a pair of literal who twins or a clown woman who probably liked puppies and other cute things.
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>>16150684
You mean the one where everytime he was about to finish her off a bunch of grunts would cover for her and give her a breather? And he did disarm her in that fight.
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>>16150699

Disarming her by giving her the opportunity to throw her weapon at Shina is a pretty shit way of accomplishing the disarm.
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>>16150721
>Mika should have loaded barbatos with some range weapons!
>He did, barbatos had guns built into the arms.
>Yeah well they were shit guns and he should have used them against julia to disarm it.
>They were the same kind of guns as the ones that broke the supposedly unbreakable swords.
>Then why didn't he try disarming her?
>He did disarm her.
>Yeah well that led to her being able to fuck up Shino's aim.

There's no pleasing you is there?
>>
>>16150737

I'm just concerned with results. Mika failing to protect Shino shouldn't have happened, and it's an embarrassment that it did.
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>>16150768
Fast opponents doing hit and run attacks are like the one thing he and barbatos aren't great at and can't smash within 10 seconds. And even then he usually catches them in the end.
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>>16150599

He didn't really. He just canabalized the brain of his dead friend to give him better AV hax without penalty.

At least Mika suffered damage for specing Barbatos to rely more and more on AV connection.
>>
>>16150791

Hey now, I said he was persistent, not skilled or talented.

And you gotta admit that the guy is pretty persistent at getting good if he decides to cannibalize his dead friends brain to get his revenge.
>>
>>16150768

Is Amuro a shit pilot because Char succeeding in getting both Fifth Luna and Axis past the terminal point and only stopped the second because of a miracle caused by dozens of other pilots helping him then? Is Kamille a shit pilot because lots of people died in the finale of Zeta and he couldn't protect them all? Is Uso shit because the Shrikes died? And so on.
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>>16150607

Honestly everyone but Kudellia did. It should have ended it both slights wiping each other out ala Dunbine, with a lesson to not repeat those mistakes.

Instead Tekkadan gets near slaughtered but all the Gallarhorn guys get off (execpt Iok who was too stupid to be allowed) giving us the end message that it's good to kill off the lower class undeseriables while letting the rich reap the rewards.
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>>16150796
>Implying Iok didn't secretly survive.
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>>16150795

No, because those pilots were actually facing opponents with the skill and machinery to match their own.

Meanwhile, Mika had:
>A tripple whammy ala-vaba
>A gundam fucking frame
>The knowledge that Shino's mission took priority over everything else

While fighting
>Some second tier ace who got her ace handed to her by Amida
>didn't have a single augmentation
>while piloting what was essentially a Hizack
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>>16150588
>katana
>edgy "nothin personnel...kid..." mobile suit
>not aesthetically in-line
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>>16150812
>while piloting what was essentially a Hizack

What the fuck kind of crack are you smoking? Reginlaze Julia was a high end prototype agressor ms meant to be an upgrade to the reginlaze, which was already massively improved upgrade over the graze frame meant to put cost effectiveness and ease of maintenance (which were what the graze were designed for) to the side in favor of stronger and higher performance MS to keep up with the current resurgence of MS fighting.

Also, Amida was supposed to be a top tier pilot and the turbines best.
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>>16150796
This, Gari Gari didn't deserved to live even if he ended as a crippled.
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>>16150828
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>>16150828

>Reginlaze Julia was a high end prototype agressor ms meant to be an upgrade to the reginlaze

Okay, my mistake. She was piloting a Marasai.

>Also, Amida was supposed to be a top tier pilot and the turbines best.

Exactly. That's why I called Julietta a second tier ace. Because a top tier ace kicked her ass while piloting an inferior suit.
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>>16150839
More like a Gelgoog Himo to the Gelgoog and everyone else except like 4 people are using zaku II tier machines.
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>>16150849

I dunno if I like that that metaphor. I intentionally compared the Graze to the Zaku II, because I understood it, the Graze was basically an older generation machine by S1.

Then I forgot that Reginlaze (which was the Hizack in this comparison, since it was basically a current generation version of the Graze) wasn't the same as Julietta's custom machine.
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>>16150859
Gotcha, i misunderstood your frame of reference. I thought you were calling it a hizack as it compared to other ms of the hizack's time, not the oyw.
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>>16150869

Yeah. My problem with comparing Julietta's machine to a gelgoog is that it implies that it could equal a machine running on a twin ahab drive, which it clearly couldn't. The Gundams were in a league of their own in IBO.
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>>16150886
>The gundams were in a league of their own in IBO.

Only when they were without limiters on the AV and fully cutting loose. Otherwise the valkyrie frames offered comparable levels of performance.
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>>16150899

I don't know if I agree with that, since we don't really see any outstanding performances by the Reginlaze. The Grimgerde was different, but that was a Calamity era suit (it also had McGillis piloting it, which makes a huge difference).

Poor performance from the Graze and the Reginlaze can probably be explained by the terrible action directing in IBO though. Those suits just aren't going to look good in action when they never actually move or is allowed to do anything impressive by their own right. At least the Zaku II got to kick around and shoulderbash the RX-78-2 a lot.
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>>16150909
By "Valkyrie frames" I meant specifically the 12 originals from the calamity war, not the family line. The valkyrie frame was meant to compete with the gundams for the big high performance ms of the war but ended up overshadowed and mostly forgotten about. They're the second highest performance MS of the calamity war next to the gundams.
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>>16150914

I know, that's why I mentioned the Grimgerde.
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>>16150918
Well, poor performance of the Graze (and Geirail) is easy enough to explain. They were built to be cheap and easy to maintain over all else according to official info with performance that was "good enough". After the calamity war almost nobody but them were using MS, they had a monopoly on reactor production, and anything they couldn't beat 1 on 1 they could swarm with numbers.

The reginlaze has no excuse for its poor showing though.
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>>16150921
>The reginlaze has no excuse for its poor showing though.
You could probably handwave that as Gjallarhorn pilots having very little experience in actual MS combat, compared to Tekkadan, Teiwaz, and other outlaws making their living off of battles. Narratively, we know it's just to make the Gundams look even tougher.
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>>16150933

I'm more prepared to blame budget costs really. It's cheaper to just make the enemies stand still when they are just going to get smashed one second later.
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>>16150921
>The reginlaze has no excuse for its poor showing
No one with AV ever piloted one
The only reason Monkeys experiment ms was good was because shes a Goddess if you plugged any random Human Debris into them it would probably be fair to say they would at least perform better then Rodis.
If you plugged shino into them how would they perform next to the Graze?
there was no showing other the "D@ thicc not-graze graze doe"
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>>16150946
Not going to lie the thought of AV Monkey stuck in her Ms with an Ein-Jar and and Angel Tail gets me a little..
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>>16150933
The reginlaze was only assigned to arianrhod fleet which was supposed to be Gjallarhorns most active fleet and the ones doing the bulk of skirmishes and fighting with pirates and the like over the years. This wasn't the guys who were sitting at some earth base with no experiance, these were supposed to be their strongest force.
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>>16150946
>because shes a Goddess

She was a fucking joke. I can't recall her having a single on screen victory. And after getting the julia she was so ineffective that in 2 out of her 3 battles with it her opponents literally blew her off to go fight someone else without consequence or being able to stop him. She was only able to hold Mika off for a short while by throwing grunts at him and her greatest accomplishment all series was causing a dying man in a heavily damaged ms who had to literally be tied to the controls to miss his shot slightly, and even then he almost hit his target. Even with mika exhausted, bleeding out, and barbatos falling apart she couldn't do anything, and was such a dissapointment that Rustal had to lie and puff her up as the one who defeated tekkadan's infamous gundam afterwards when he actually died from his wounds from the orbital volley.

EVEN FUCKING IOK ACCOMPLISHED MORE ON THE BATTLEFIELD THAN SHE EVER DID IN THE SERIES.

I wouldn't call her a goddess, I wouldn't even call her a second tier ace like the anon above. She was a grunt with a name who only got as far as she did because she was Rustal's special little girl.
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>>16151061
>pilots experimental suit no one else could
>defeats mikazuki who despite dying scored more on screen kills then anyone else in the series
>did nothing
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>>16151061

This. Julia was just carried by plot armor to keep her alive when everyone else around her died. Iok at least had his men constantly getting killed to save him, Julia just somehow kept survivng getting smashed by Mika when nobody else did, even getting gored in the cockpit and somehow being fine next episode.

She doesn't even beat him in the end as much as wait for him to die at the controls from an orbital bombardment.

She's literally Lacus, the writers fucking self insert only even more insufferable because at least Lacus had actual skilled pilots fighting for her rather than relying on the plot constantly saving her.
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>>16151092
>pilots experimental suit no one else could

She was literally its first pilot. They were looking for volunteers and even named it after her.

>defeats mikazuki who despite dying scored more on screen kills then anyone else in the series

She didn't defeat him even once. Even in the end she couldn't hurt him and he was able to kill a bunch of her men before bleeding out without her being able to stop him.
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>>16151104
it waasnt mass produced because no one could pilot it

She didnt die when mika tried to kill her.
name 3 ppl who did that
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>>16151109
>ChocoChar in his Shwalbe Graze
>Garma
>Ein technically didn't die
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>>16151109
>it waasnt mass produced because no one could pilot it

It was a brand new experimental prototype just coming into the testing stage, of course they didn't mass produce it yet. There's nothing that says only she could pilot it or that they didn't eventually make more.

>She didnt die when mika tried to kill her.
name 3 ppl who did that

Ein (Until the end), Gaelio, Carta (Until like his 3rd encounter with her), Lafter, and Kudal (until their second fight).
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>>16143157
because he gets buttfucked when a competent opponent in a competent mech shows up?
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>>16150812

So your problem isn't results either, it's performance as measured against the skill of enemies or just the skill of the characters in general?
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>>16151183
He sounds like a DBZ fag who thinks that powerlevel is the only thing that matter on the outcome.
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>>16146889
We're about to find out in SRW X when we can put Amuro in the G-Self. Hopefully.
>>
>Be McGillis
>Nah guys, I'll just solo them
>Almost succeeds any way
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>>16152596
Im glad based Vidar killed him
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>>16152596
>Almost
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>>16152596

That was the thing. Mcgillis alone took out much of the fleet and almost killed Rustal, while Mika tore apart half the ground forces.

If they'd just fought together they probably could have taken out the whole Arrianrod fleet.

Hell they could have won in the first clash against them if Mcgillis didn't sit on his ass until most of their forces were wiped out.

Just send Barbatos and Bael in as the vanguard with everyone else backing them up and they'd have won. Even Gaelio couldn't take both Mika and Mcgillis.
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>>16149417
Gaelioo is Okada husbnad. Monkeys is Okada selfp-insert.
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>>16152596
I expect Muh Bael having some bullshit as controlling mobile armors.
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>>16152891

Yeah, but it wasn't that easy. Rustal was too good a tactician for McGillis for that to happen. In the real battle, Rustal already had contingencies in place to tie up McGillis and Mika.

Shit happens when you actually have to fight competent people who are allowed to think.
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>>16152596
His bigest mistake was telling his plan to Galeio. Bigest plot hole was Macgills or even Galieo father not checking Galieo body.
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>>16152955

Nobody could have taken the two of them together. And with Julia tied up Shino's shot wouldn't have missed.
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>>16152938

Basically the same problem as Seed Destiny. The head people working on it weren't interested in the actual protagonists Bandai created to market the show to sell the models so they played along, then shit on them to prop up their self inserts.
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>>16152955
>Send Akihiro to fight Julietta
>Send Chad Chadan McChad Chadman/Ride/etc. to fight Iok
>McGillis and Mika violently double-team Gaelio
>Send unnamed mooks to die against dainsleifs, and then send more unnamed mooks to bumrush the dainsleif Grazes when they reload
>Shino does whatever
Voila. The only thing McGillis and Tekkadan hadn't known about was Rustal bringing out dainsleifs, but even then realistic should've been able to infer it considering his prior underhanded actions. The problem is that S2 McGillis/Tekkadan aren't allowed to think either, with McGillis's entire plan being reduced to MUH BAEL/MUH AGNIKA KAERU/MUH LEGENDS.
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>>16153078
>Chad Chadan McChad Chadman

His name is Madman Chad "The Chadman" Chadan.

Get it right.
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>>16153078

McGillis and Tekkadan not being allowed to think makes sense though. Tekkadans tragic flaw was the fact that they were a bunch of idiots.

Meanwhile McGillis is plain overrated as a strategist. He talked a hot game but didn't have the moves. In S1 he doesn't really do anything that amazing (Kuudelia and Makanai were the ones who kept on politically outmaneuvering Gjallarhorn. McGillis just bet on the underdog and cashed in big). In S2 he is actively getting outmaneuvered by Rustal multiple times and he keeps going on a bunch of fool's journeys that went nowhere.
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>>16142336
My interpretation was that the whole idea behind the AV system was that it's a "The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long" type thing where it's users sacrificed their futures for strength on the battlefield. It felt like the AV system was eventually always going to come back and bite it's users in the ass.

However you are right that most of the opponents in S1 were incompetent, specially the GH grunts. One of the main plot points was that GH had crown corrupt and soft over the century+ it had been able to operate without any real challenges to it's rule. However it wasn't just AV giving Mika an edge because he was still able to take out a lot of the Brewers' AV equipped pilots in the second fight against them even if they put up a stiffer fight than any other S1 grunts.

However I do think he did get better as a pilot. In S2 he not only beat more competent enemy grunts like they were S1 GH grunts, he also beat AV equipped grunts like they were S1 grunts. However I don't fault you for your interpretation because Mika was able to defeat grunts relatively easily in S1 and didn't face the same or clearly equal opponents in S1 and S2 for an easy judgement on how his skills had improved.
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>>16143429
>Vidar kicked Mika around as if he were a grunt
Looked more like an equal fight to me and when McGillis got into the Bael the odds tipped so much out of his favor he fled.
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>>16152945
I was thinking the same, for all the shit about Bael, I was really expecting the goddamn thing to have some OP stuff like a slave mobil armor or some EMP weapon, after all, it was the gundam of the hero of the calamity war, that shit is MC material in the case of getting that war animated, and for someone soo "keikaku" at that point like McGillis, it was really dissapointing that his master plan rely on a bunch of corrupt people kneel over some old legend and tradition, I was expecting they were going to surrender because Bael was OP as fuck and they were scared of that.
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>>16142336
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>>16156496
Bael being OP would have defeated the point. Its main purpose was as a symbol, and the ride of McGillis' wet dream, Agnika Kaieru. Bael being the hero of the War despite its anemic armaments is just a testament to the kind of guy Agnika was. Something had to be special about the guy for Mackie to fanboy over him so hard.
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>>16157650

I doubt you can become much better at piloting than McGillis or Gaelio/Ein. I'm guessing the Bael and the Agnika Kaieru legend is more akin to the RX-78-2 and Amuro. An exceptional suit and an exceptional pilot which for a short time eclipsed everything else.

That doesn't mean there weren't other great pilots (Char) and great suits (Gelgoog), it's just that the RX-78-2 was FIRST, and for a few months it completely DOMINATED before new models eclipsed it.
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>>16157707
>I doubt you can become much better at piloting than McGillis or Gaelio/Ein.
I don't. The times make the man, and neither of those fags had to survive MA armageddon. Hashmal was just a taste.
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>>16157723

The Hashmal wasn't that great. It was just a very dangerous animal. It's legacy probably rested more on earlier weapons not being beam proof and surprise value of a MA suddenly attacking an undefended civilian population.

It's pretty obvious that the war ended not because of the gundam frames, but because some genius invented the giant space crossbow, the perfect weapon for hunting game.
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>>16157728

I doubt it ended the war on it's own, given that two human pilots in Gundam frames were able to endure being hit by dainsleifs and a computer is less likely to be to fatally damaged by them. I have no doubt it helped, but it wouldn't do it on it's own. The reason Agnika was so good was probably because he was willing to do what Mika did and give himself over to the machine in ways that McGillis wouldn't and tried to work around instead. Agnika probably killed himself, or at least his body to help win the war, while McGillis wanted to survive it intact.
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>>16157763

The Heshmal was fairly slow, seemed mostly unaware of surrounding threats and was poorly armed if you discount the laser. It didn't seem to understand the concept of "dodging". A full dainsleif volley would have completely crippled it (and that's before we start to include nuclear tipped missiles into the equation).

It's no wonder that the dainsleif was invented AT THE END of the war, because clearly once they had access to that sort of weaponry, the threat was plain over.
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>>16157921

The Hashmal was twice the size of the Gundams and we know they can survive being hit with dainsleifs. It might not have much armament on it's own (it has the tail, claws and pile bunkers as well), but it's danger is less in it's personal weapons and more in the fact it can continuously crank out sub-units in the form of those mini-units it can produce and those are all armed with miniature versions of it's weapons too. It can produce dozens of them in short order by the looks of things too.
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>>16157921
It was specifically mentioned that it was only moving slowly because it was letting the little sub units keep up. Once they seperated them in that gorge the Hashmel's speed and reactions suddenly picked up to the point where nobody could touch or keep up with it until Mika let barbatos go balls to the wall like it kept trying to do.
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>>16157936

Being twice the size just makes you twice the target.

Claiming that that the gundams "survived" the dainsleifs is hyperbole, getting hit left them badly damage and the pilots basically bled to death a few minutes later, disabling the units.

A bunch of sub-units are useless against nuclear tipped missiles/orbital bombardment.

>>16157946

Only the tail was dangerous, and that weapon had limited range and effectiveness.

The Hashmal could rocket boost to move faster, but that also meant leaving behind its escorts and supposed greatest strength.
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>>16157763
>because he was willing to do what Mika did and give himself over to the machine
VA from Calamity war era like the one McGillis used is different though, it doesn't have any drawback at when used to the max.
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>>16158141
>Only the tail was dangerous
Its beam is still dangerous though. Like ABC cloack, the coating on the MS isn't make it invincible, take enough the beam an its protection will be chipped off.
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>>16157723
I wish there was some consistency to McGillis. Dude starts out super baller and then, in season 2, spends the entire time jobbing.

I guess there's something to be said about his skill in keeping up with Zombie tag team Gal & Ein in their magic murder machine that can solo 30 suits with just it's feet.

I guess stabbing yourself in the hand instead of just beating a seven year old and calling her retarded isn't such a great move.
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>>16157650
The point was that McGillis wanted power and to gain status through power; he even has a monologue stating that even as an adapted rich boy son he's still just some rape bait and not any better off than he was on the street.
Then there's that whole thing where he literally says he never planned to kill a mobile armor to get his promotion because it'd be too silly. Yet his plan is still just to get a promotion instead of wielding real power like he always dreamed
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>>16153154
>Tekkadans tragic flaw was the fact that they were a bunch of idiots.
In things like long-term strategy, yeah, but when it comes to planning for battles they'd been pretty innovative in the past.
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>>16158441

Well, I don't think McGillis did that much in s1 besides delivering some goods to Tekkadan, which happened to have goals which co-aligned with his.

So the way I see it, McGillis (besides being an excellent pilot) was mostly hot air. Sort of like a Char who pretends that him lucking out and killing a pair of Zabis was actually part of some masterful plan, and not just him infiltrating their ranks and taking advantage of the situation.
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>>16158504

That actually annoyed me a bit. People complain about McGillis taking the idiot ball, when really it was Orga who wasn't acting according to his ability for most of the show.

Orga was actually smart and had actual foresight. When Biscuit disagreed with him in S1 for being reckless, nobody was actually in the wrong, they just disagreed on what was the best course of action.

But in S2, it's as if Biscuit is posthumously made right, as S2 Orga suddenly loses all ability of foresight which he demonstratively had in S1.
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>>16158513
McGillis was outfighting Gali, the reoccurring villain who kept up with VA users, by ancient law of anime fighting that makes him competent.
He was also doing some free fall entry bullshit into the atmosphere.
He just decides to job in all his new suits which have worse color schemes.

>>16158522
This was just as bad. Watching Orga helplessly clutch his knees all last ten episodes begging for mercy while his entire crew was still game for the big prize
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>>16158141

> Being twice the size just makes you twice the target.

Twice the target is a meaningless value when you're aiming from orbit dozens of miles out. You're being aimed at via something other than size from visuals at that point anyway, so your size on a monitor means nothing.

> Claiming that that the gundams "survived" the dainsleifs is hyperbole, getting hit left them badly damage and the pilots basically bled to death a few minutes later, disabling the units.

The Gundams themselves were quite capable of movement after getting hit, and Barbatos killed a dozen or more Grazes and would have killed more if Julietta hadn't diverted his attention. The thing that was fatally hurt was the human pilot; which the Hashmal doesn't have. There's nothing in that scene to suggest that either Gundam would have become inoperable shortly afterward due to the dainsleif hit unlike the pilots.

> A bunch of sub-units are useless against nuclear tipped missiles/orbital bombardment.

It's the nuclear part of that that is the real danger, not the delivery system itself. Also, the plumas can presumably be spread out over a large area. Hashmal gathered them close, but I doubt it had to have them close.

> The Hashmal could rocket boost to move faster, but that also meant leaving behind its escorts and supposed greatest strength.

The plumas aren't it's greatest strength; the ability to produce them constantly and quickly is.

>>16158152

I thought the difference was that it had no danger or age restriction in implant, not that it could be used to take full control of the suit with no danger to the pilot?
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>>16158152

Nope. The Calamity War-era AV system has the same drawbacks as the one that Tekkadan uses and can cause brain damage if used excessively. The only difference is that it can be installed on an adult, which is how Ein was able to get one, and why his brain was used to make AV Type E (so that Kimaris can be used at max output without any brain damage to Gali Gali).

>>16152955

If you actually rewatch that scene where Julietta cockblocked Shino's Dainsleif, you'll realize that the Flauros was already way past the Graze Dainsleif defense line and nearing the Arianrhod Fleet, which leads me to wonder how the hell the Reginlaze Julia was even able to get there fast enough to accurately hit Flauros' Dainsleif before Shino could fire. Rustal surviving was total BS.
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>>16160056

>Twice the target is a meaningless value when you're aiming from orbit dozens of miles out.

Actually no. If someone aims at you center mass, size impacts how fast you need to be able to accelerate in order to accomplish a dodge.

Size and acceleration are the two determining factors for how good you are at dodging.

>The Gundams themselves were quite capable of movement after getting hit,

Getting hit left the Barbatos without arms and the Gusion immobilized. The only reason they scored any kills were that Gjallarhorns actively engaged them afterwards in order to keep up appearances. If Gjallarhorn instead would have chosen to just shoot a second time, the Gundams would have been smoked.

A single Dainsleif hit is crippling to most suits, and the range which the Dainsleif operates on makes a single salvo unlikely.

> not the delivery system itself.

No, the deliver system was super dangerous, as shown by the damage it was capable of to capital ships and through orbital kinetic bombardment.
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>>16157728

It's implied that the Hasmal was just a mid-tier MA, seeing as how it was named after a Rank 4 (out of 10) angel in a hierarchy. There were probably countless other MAs that were more powerful and smarter than it. Also, the MAs originally didn't have nano-laminate armor, but said to have acquired it using leaked info, meaning they're smart enough to improve themselves on their own. As for the Dainsleif, guidebook mentions that Dainsleif + Gundam Frame was the way to go in dealing with MAs, with other MS supporting them. Although use of the Dainsleif was limited if the area it was going to be used on was being considered for post-war restoration. The moon in IBO got fucked up because of Dainsleif bombardments, apparently.
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>>16149417
> how gaelio survived

Wat do you mean they specifically show mcgillis missed the damn part of the cockpit on the kimaris trooper that would have killed gaelio
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I'm surprised no one mentioned that it wasn't the Barbatos that pointed out the gap in Gusion's armor, but Mikazuki who recognized it above the cockpit and took advantage of that weakness.
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>>16160384

> Size and acceleration are the two determining factors for how good you are at dodging.

Size impacts it, but it doesn't determine it solely. Being larger also generally makes you sturdier to hits. Not that I think the Hashmal would have been immune to the dainsleifs, but most damage it received would have less impact simply because the unit is larger.

> Getting hit left the Barbatos without arms and the Gusion immobilized.

No, it didn't. Barbatos was down one arm, the other was perfectly fine and Gusion Rebake stood up on it's own twice. That's not immobilized. It didn't move from the spot it was on, but that's because Iok came to him and there's nothing suggesting it couldn't move given that it's legs were perfectly capable of standing up.

> The only reason they scored any kills were that Gjallarhorns actively engaged them afterwards in order to keep up appearances.

A half truth, at best. Iok ran in to engage the Gusion, but no-one rushed in against Mika and it was him that launched the Barbatos at the Grazes, taking down a dozen or so of them in seconds.

> A single Dainsleif hit is crippling to most suits

I wasn't talking about most suits, I was talking specifically about Gundams and mobile armors.

> the range which the Dainsleif operates on makes a single salvo unlikely.

And yet that's exactly what happened the one time we see them used for orbital strikes.
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> No, the deliver system was super dangerous, as shown by the damage it was capable of to capital ships and through orbital kinetic bombardment.

Please tell me you aren't trying to claim that dainsleifs are more dangerous than nukes? The nuclear tip on a nuclear tipped dainslief is far more dangerous than the actual dainsleif itself, that should be self evident. That doesn't mean the dainsliefs aren't dangerous, just that they're not as dangerous as the nuclear tip. Not even remotely so frankly. And we've no idea how prolific nuclear tipped dainsliefs were in the Calamity War. They were probably what was used on the Moon given it's state (and that alone should be good evidence of why dainsliefs on their own aren't a patch on nuclear tipped ones), but that the Moon is in such a state and neither Earth or Mars are despite mobile armors demonstrably having a presence on Mars should be proof they weren't in use there.
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>>16157494
Kinda redundant considering the show is already coldsteel-tier.




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