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So who's fault was it?
>>
SHIGGY JOHN
>>
>>16143248
95% of it falls on Zeon, waaaayyyy too much blood on their hands, both of spacenoids and earthlings, ranging in the billions, these motherfuckers killed a planet worth of people in total.
>>
Regardless of the reason, the zeeks had it coming after operation british
>>
>>16143248
Space belongs to earth zeon scum
>>
It was the dolphins.
It's ALWAYS the dolphins.
>>
>>16143248
Spacenoids always ruin everything
Especially if they are dirty Zeeks

>>16143253
Reminder that the zeeks killed more people with regular Musai cannons than they did with nukes or chemical attacks


>>16143279
Anon you simply don't understand their master plan
>>
>>16143248
The Earth Federation is an oligarchy that mismanaged the colonies and allowed for the situation to spiral out of control. Zeon is an even more corrupt, fascist spacenoid supremacist principality that uses a redress of wrongs as an excuse to launch a war of conquest and goes way, way overboard in its prosecution of said war. Zeon is worse, even though it wasn't the side which kicked everything off. Zeon would be the guy who went home, grabbed his gun, and shot EF just because EF teased him. If you want to look at a more historic example, look at the Treaty of Versailles and how that guaranteed a second world war.

Were the Germans right for wanting to burn the treaty and assert themselves?
Yes.

Were all the other crazy shit they did justified by the Treaty?
No.

It gets kinda muddy though, because individual Zeon soldiers and commanders usually tend to be much more brilliant, interesting, and likable than there Federation counterparts, but then go and gas a colony and crash it into the Earth.
>>
>>16143248
This topic is not allowed.
>>
>>16143291
>most deaths during war caused during 1 week battle when WMDs were going crazy
I honestly don't see how that could be the case. Care to explain? Were the mostly just aiming standard musai cannons at colonys instead of gassing them?
>>
>>16143248
The zabis, obviously.

True Zeon never existed.
>>
Zeon's fault although a lot of anons here would argue that it justifies everything the titans do after the fact.

Those anons are actually zeon sympathizers doing false flagging for new neo zeon
>>
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>>16143334
Zeon's actions justify the creation of Titans
But not their actions well maybe some of them
>>
>>16143248
THE people who elected the faggot of zeon of EF
>>
>>16143248
The Tri-Stars.
If they hadn't captured Revil, the EF would have surrendered at Antarctica and it would have been the One Week War.
>>
Yoshiyuki Tomino's.
>>
>>16143362
Who was the prime minister of the EF during the OYW?
That fucker should've resigned
Revil was doing his job the entire time
also
>Zeon
>Having democratic elections

>>16143365
They were just doing their job
>>
>>16143384
IT is the people who allowed zeon to happen. The people can simply shift the blame to muh evil zabbi, even though they allowed them to take over
>>
>>16143248
Syam Vist
>>
>>16143365
>That guy who wiped out 1/3rd of humanity won the war.

its gonna be pretty grimdark
>>
>>16143248

ZEON WUZ A GUD BOI

HE DINDU NUFFIN
>>
>>16143572
He was, actually. It was the Bolshe-er, Zabis who committed the unparalleled murders.
>>
Fucking feddies
>>
>>16143400
>That guy who wiped out 1/3rd of humanity won the war.
>1/3
Half.
>>
>>16143249
SIEEEEEEG..... SEAN!
SIEEEEEEG..... SEAN!
SIEEEEEEG..... SEAN!
>>
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>>16143291
> Anon you simply don't understand their master plan

when you know their master plan by that time, you're dead meat. >>16143279 have spoken the truth.
>>
>>16143388

This

/thread
>>
>>16143248
MoonMen

The answer is always Moon Men
>>
>>16143365

And then we would have endless Federation uprisings, because the Gihren and Kycilia, the two most power hungry Zabis would make horrible peace time leaders and would be like the Titans by a hundred considering Gihren's actual plan for population control.
>>
>>16144582
Moonmen Moonmen
Can't you see? Zeeks and Joves need to hang in trees.
>>
>>16143385
Like IRL, the people had no idea until it was far too late.

>>16143400
>>16143711
It was Half of earth's population.

But by that time that was like 3 billion at most, so 1.5 billion people. So they beat communism, which makes sense.
>>
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>>16144813

Half of Earth's population doesn't account for any of the people killed in space. And we know that almost every Side was outright destroyed in the One Year War. Sides 1, 2, 4 and 5 were completely destroyed while Side 6 had most of it's colonies destroyed according to the show. Only Side 3 and Side 7 were left intact. And Side 7 barely counts, since it was just one Colony anyway if I recall. The original estimates by O'Neill were that a single Side consist of about 30 Colonies to my knowledge, so that's about 135 Colonies or more total destroyed. Now, I'm not saying they're all Zeon's fault exclusively or anything; just that only 1/3 is an underestimate if talking solely about Earth.
>>
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>>16144864
>>
>>16144864
>>16144869
In the Origin, they say it's 150 million people in the Hatte Side, and that was by far the bulk of the people they killed in space.
>>
>>16144874

Unless Hatte had more in it's Colonies than 3 other Sides combined that doesn't really make sense. Not unless the Federation exclusively gunned down the majority of the other Sides. Plus, those numbers don't make a lot of sense either. There should be like 7 or 8 billion people in space. One Side out of 6 only having 150 million total means the others must have been crammed to the walls trying to make up for it's relative scarcity.
>>
>>16144880
Well it is a science fiction show. If they made sense they wouldn't be set in space.
>>
>>16144888
Yasuhiko is the guy that hired Okawara because he thought Miyatake's mobile suit designs would be too realistic, if anything makes sense in Origin I consider it a happy coincidence.
>>
>>16143248
The Feddies, if Zeon wanted independence the Federation should've given it to them. Zeon's methods were evil but if it weren't for the Feddies' selfish refusal to give up even a little bit of power those atrocities never would have happened.
>>
>>16143248
>OYW kills off half the human population
>Somehow there are several more wars after in a short period of time
Could never grasp how this could even happen. Holy shit at some point you run out of soldiers, even child ones. Where do the heavy casualties even come from? The colony drop was bad, but was it 15 percent-ish bad?
>>
>>16145494
The later wars do seem to be on a much smaller scale, throughout Zeta I got the impression it was just two AEUG ships against three Titans ones.
>>
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>>16145504
I felt that zeta was like, 20 AEUG ships vs about 50 titan ships with 10 neo zeon ships chilling on the sidelines

Wheras the OYW was like 1000 EF ships vs 500 Zeon ships
>>
>>16145462
>if Zeon wanted independence the Federation should've given it to them.
They had it since fucking UC 0058.
>>
>>16145462
>The Feddies, if Zeon wanted independence the Federation should've given it to them.

They did. Side 3 even assisted Side 6 in becoming independent before the war. The War wasn't about Zeon independence, according to the speal Zeon was preaching it was about SPACENOID independence (Under Zeon rule of course).
>>
>>16145494
Like half the human population is still billions of people in UC 80+, not to mention by the time Zeta rolls around it's been about 7 years nad there's a lot more young recruits joining up who were kids during the OYW. The following "wars" were all much much smaller scale, with the Neo Zeon war being the biggest. Everything else was more like a handful of skirmishes and terrorist plots.
>>
>>16143248

>Crtl+F
>Not one names the {{{Jovian}}}
>>
>>16145494
Because OYW is one of the largest war in Gundam history.

Gryps Conflict is a civil war,

First Neo-Zeon war was smaller in scale thanks to the Gryps Conflict hullabaloo.

2nd Neo-Zeon war only happen in space with Londo Bell in the fray

Cosmo Babylonian war only happen at Frontier 7, again small scale

Zanscare Empire war perhaps the only war in UC era that can rival OYW in term of scale, but since we follow the pov of Usso and crew we never witness how EF still kicking ass despite their economy is crashing down.
>>
>>16145615
Oy vey!
Stay right where you are goyim.
>>
>>16145700
>we never witness how EF still kicking ass despite their economy is crashing down.

EF was getting its ass kicked and until like halfway through the series every base was basically left to fend for itself because they couldn't launch an actual counter offensive until they worked through their internal issues and red tape. And as we saw during the attack on the one colony the EFF were working with heavily outdated MS that were getting the shit beat out of them by the newer stuff from BESPA. That's the whole reason they were secretly backing militia groups, they couldn't publicly make a big move against zanscar yet but they couldn't sit back and do nothing either.
>>
>>16145494
NEVER FORGET THE 600 GORRILLION
>>
>>16145780
BUT ALSO REMEMBER THAT IT WAS EVIL ZEON THAT DID IT NOT THE (((ZABIS))) THEY WERE INNOCENTS WHO WERE JUST AS PERSECUTED AS EVERYONE ELSE!
>>
>>16145878
>the nazis killed off a royal family to take power
Oh, i see.
>>
>>16143248
Feddies for violating the NAP
>>
>>16144813
>It was Half of earth's population.
It's actually, "both sides lost half their respective populations."
That means half of the Earth Federation (which includes allied colonies) and half of Zeon. Don't know if neutral colonies count, but it's definitely close to half of humanity.
>>
>>16145945

What Nap?

>>16145960

Pretty sure that's a known mistake in translation.
>>
>>16145992
>What Nap?
Non Aggression Pact, it's a meme concept that 4chan like to trot out
>>
>>16146050

I know what it stands for, though I wasn't aware it was a meme. I just wondered when there was a pact in the first place, though presumably there was none and he was just meme'ing or something.
>>
>>16145887
Zeon Zum Deikum wasn't royalty. Furthermore, his death also wasn't very much like the Soviet rebellion at all beyond the fact that he got killed so that somebody else could take power. If that's what constitutes as a Bolshevik thing, then at that point all political assassinations in all stories ever written would be, as well.

If Deikum had been a royal and not a democratically selected politician, or if the Zabis had led an open rebellion against him, you'd have a point, but as is you're reaching so far I don't think you're arguing in good faith or that you've even seen Gundam beyond reading a wiki page or two.
>>
>>16146103
The Zabis are more like Stalin taking power after Lenin's death or Napoleon turning revolutionary France into an empire than anything
>>
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>>16143760
>mfw this actually could have been the zeekshit salute in syd mead's gundam movie
>zak
>amaru
>sara
>>
>>16146540
Plus the whole Sieg ___ thing which you'd think that would be a major giveaway
>>
>>16143253
>the zeeks had it coming after operation british

had what coming? literally nothing bad happen to Zeon or its people besides losing a war they started to begin with. Side 3 didnt get bulldozed, there was no rape and pillage like Berlin after WWII, they didnt even get occupied by the EFSF after the war. for regular Zeon citizens there was no consequences for their actions yet Neo Neo Neo Zeon is still butthurt over losing.
>>
>>16145960
>"both sides lost half their respective populations."

thats a mistranslation, they said that half of the world's population was killed. how could Zeon have lost half its population if their civilians were never involved in the war? there wasnt a single shot fired anywhere near Side 3 for the entirety of the OYW.
>>
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>>16146702
No, Girls Und Panzer is clearly about how evil the nazis were. They even put GAS in their tanks!
>>
Don't respond to the commie troll.

he's made this into a habit.
>>
Do not respond to trolls.
>>
>>16146695
Maybe they lost their population through the soldiers that made up their army?
>>
>>16143248
It was both man. With the EF taking colonies for granted and then Zeon for acting batshit crazy and then dropping colonies onto earth.
>Inb4 colony drop deniers.
>>
>>16143248
It was both of their faults, thats literally what 0079 showed
>>
>>16146685

You say that but I'm sure it's just that those working for Sunrise haven't looked at the relevant type of history books yet.

The moment one of them discovers Berlin: Memoirs of the Aftermaths you can be sure you'll be buried in 0081: Lost Zeon, 0082: Zeonic Flare, 0083: Other Side Crisis, 0084: Federal Shackles, etc etc.
>>
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>>16146685
>there was no rape and pillage like Berlin after WWII
Yeah, sure
>>
>>16147227
After reading Plot to Assassinate Gihren, I hope Cecilia was raped about a dozen times and impregnated with a future Federation ace pilot.
>>
>go through the trouble of getting a female officer to frisk Zeon ladies
>surely they raped them afterwards!
>>
>>16147227
The war crimes I would be charged with after I got done with those two Zeek qties would make the trial at Nuremberg look like a slap on the wrist.
>>
>>16146685
This. The EF are too fucking lenient, any real life leader would have dump the entire colony on Mars hoping the constant barrage of massive cylindrical object will terraform the planet.
>>
>>16143248
Yes.
Much like American history, we like to romanticize the rebel, but in truth both factions did terrible things.
>>
>>16147227
heres the translated version. we have no idea where that picture was taken, Gihren died at A Baoa Qu so there is reason to believe those were his personal staff at A Baoa Qu, not side 3.

also see>>16147285
those women are important sources of information on Zeon leadership, not expendable rape magnets.
>>
>>16148163
name one terrible thing the EFF did before 0085.

>muh Bardot Policy food embargo made Zeon babies hungry

maybe you shouldn't have declared independence when your country couldn't live independently. its like a kid having themselves emancipated then throwing a fit when they didn't keep getting their allowance every week.
>>
>>16143248
It was our fault, the viewer, for getting off on war and death and human suffering. We are the problem.
>>
>>16148163
Name one thing the north did that could be considered terrible during the civil war.
>>
>>16148569
nothing because the winners don't get charged with war crimes ;^)
>>
>>16148574
>haha i don't actually have anything to say so take this meme post ;^)
>>
>>16148576
it was a joke about how Sherman's March Through Civilian Population Centers is mostly ignored because the north won
tranquillo
chillax
>>
>>16148607
>boo hoo sherman waged war on those poor rebels when they tried to destroy the country such war crimes the south is totally being picked on by those mean northerners
:^)
>>
>>16148621
>trying to justify war crimes because they were just as shitty
Wew
>>
>>16148621
>ask about one thing the North did
>get told about one thing
>flip out
wat
>>
>>16146542
Stop spamming that pic, you autistic cunt.
>>
>>16148569
Seizing Baltimore.

Granted, Baltimore was strategically important, but Maryland as a whole wasn't real big on secession to begin with, and yet the Union thought it a great idea to go WE RUN THIS SHIT and just hold the region at a gunpoint of sorts as if it was going to flip to those greyshirts further down south.

General consensus is that it was a dick move.
Probably not what you're looking for when you say "terrible," but it was still pretty damn rude of the Union.
>>
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>>16143248

I'll just leave this here
>>
>>16148800
This is mostly just vitriolic rambling though. If you say something with enough maddening invective, of course it will sound lamentable.
>>
>>16148800
BLAH BLAH BLAH YOU FEDDIE LEANING PARASITE. YOU EXPECT ME TO SIT HERE AND READ YOUR DRIVEL?
>>
>>16148857
Except it's all accurate outside of hyperbole (or the poster switched the Moon and Sun somehow) on how far away Side 3 was.
>>
>>16149045
>There was a PERCIEVED CULTURAL BELIEF that people living on sides were of a lower class than those living on Earth
Not really. The vast majority of spacenoids were forcibly relocated, the entire point of them was to move as many people from Earth as possible to preserve it longer for people who got to stay on Earth. Zeon Deikun was an unusual case of someone who chose to live in Space when he didn't have to because of his philosophy. Victory goes the most in-depth into this, where people like Uso and Shakti who were born and lived on Earth their entire lives are still considered "illegal immigrants" because they're not explicitly supposed to be there. Katejina, by contrast, is one of the Earth elite (who don't exist according to feddiewank posters) who has permission to live there.

>The Federation...promptly stops shipping them anything
The "sanctions" theory is never ever mentioned in any official Gundam works and is just something assumed by fans because of how sanctions are so often used to punish rogue states in real life. Originally it got brought up by Zeonwankers as an excuse for Zeon starting the war, but in this case and increasingly frequently it's brought up by Feddiewankers to condemn them. It doesn't actually make any sense in the Gundam universe for sanctions to have any particularly negative effect on Side 3 because the ENTIRE POINT of the colonies is to self-sustain human life to take pressure off of Earth and ending all human exploitation of Earth's resources is what Zeon Deikun EXPLICITLY WANTED for all of humanity, starting with side 3.

Zabi controlled Zeon are obviously the bad guys and replacing the old Zeon's agenda of leaving Earth with replacing Earth's elite with themselves is hypocritical, but that Feddiewank poster acts like there was never any merit to Zeon's (original) ideals or a legitimate beef to be had with the Federation at all.
>>
>>16143248
I support the spacenoid cause with all my hear (especially Char's Neo-Neo Zeon), but I have to admit, the Zabis went a tad too far.
>>
>>16144813
>So they beat communism, which makes sense.
What do you mean by that?
>>
>>16149237
>The vast majority of spacenoids were forcibly relocated

Which happened several generations prior to the current one. The war and chain of events that led up to it are a good 70 years into the UC calender.
>>
>>16147176
You clearly didn't watch it because there's 0 evidence showing the federation had any involvemeny. And even post show books have Zeon destroying like 3 of the 7 sides while the rest stated neutral. For that matter the show frames the average zeek as a fanatic. Every time there's a rally the speech is super radical and we're shown the fanaticism common soldiers have towards the cause, the cast even critiqued the madness of Zeon when they hear the Garma funeral speech. The federation isn't ever shown to be like that, on the contrary it's shown as rigid and bureaucratic but we're constantly shown that the officers are willing to break rules and sacrifice to so the right thing. Like Matilda and her fiance sacrificing themselves to protect WB. The only evil feddie i can think of is the Zeon double agent general under Revil. Zeon is consistently shown to be evil, even when they're shown to be honorable in some way they're still framed as nuts or unintentionally malicious. Like Ramba being a nutjob who trash talks Amuro before committing suicide or those two scout pilots who failed to tell the mom and her kid that Zeon obliterated her home town but still sent her on her way, only remarking on it after they leave. At best Zeon may have some decent human beings but the show goes out of its way to frame the organization as evil and corrupting, and in some ways portrays like a religious cult, and we all know Tomino thinks religion is a great source of evil in the world. The federation in the other hand is good but slow and filled with good people
>>
>>16149237
>where people like Uso and Shakti who were born and lived on Earth their entire lives are still considered "illegal
Contrary to popular belief there are few countries that share the same immigration policies as the U.S.. most countries have much stricter laws against immigration
>>
>>16152289

Most of Europe, Australia and Canada have similar levels of immigration control to America; if not laxer laws and often "share" immigration populations if I recall. Hell, back in the 70s (think it was then) Australia implemented a completely open border because the culture was seen as too insular and it had become problematic in several ways.
>>
>>16152273
>>Which happened several generations prior to the current one. The war and chain of events that led up to it are a good 70 years into the UC calender.
First off 70 years is not that long, and second, its not like they stopped. Basically every side but 3, 7 and 6's population was wiped out in the OYW and yet come zeta they're all repopulated somehow. Do the math.

>Contrary to popular belief there are few countries that share the same immigration policies as the U.S.. most countries have much stricter laws against immigration
I don't think being born in a country necessarily entitles you to citizenship, but there's a difference between being an anchor baby of an immigrant who has no family history of being a resident of the country and being the descendant of someone who was kicked off the entire Earth, where every single human being is from, because rich guys wanted less people on it.
>>
>>16152565
They "repopulated" the sides after the war by moving colonies from other sides into the place of the destroyed sides and rehabbing some damaged sides for someplace the refugees to move into. There was no mention of further mass migration of lower class into space after the oyw and they can't rebuild dozens of space colonies that quickly. Hell, they were so pushed to crap out colonies that they made shit like the sweetwater colony by welding two halves of different type damaged colonies together.
>>
In CCA, did the average Zeke fan living in the colonies know about Char's plot to drop Axis?
They were obviously fine with dropping Fifth Luna and all those other Colony Drops, sure, but would seeing Axis fall and totally and completely devastate the Earth have made them more skeptical of him?
>>
>>16152622
Well yeah, we see the results of that when at the end like half his remaining guys help push axis back.
>>
>>16152589
Hell, as we see in Zeta, ZZ, CCA, and Unicorn the Earth is still full of lower class citizens, poor villages, and slums.
>>
>>16152675
They're probably not supposed to even be there. The Federation really does not give a shit about most people. They're perfectly happy to let Haman drop a colony on Dublin in ZZ because it means there will be less people on Earth.
>>
>>16152684
And yet the entire reason the federation sells Axis to Char is because they need more money to fund their massive welfare state
>>
>>16152693
Is it the actual reason, or is it just an excuse?
There probably wasn't a massive anti-corruption campaign in the Federation between ZZ and CCA.
>>
>>16152622

They knew he was up to something, and given that they were okay with him dropping 5th Luna on Lhasa I don't see why they wouldn't be okay with him dropping Axis.

>>16152627

Half his remaining mobile suit forces maybe. Which isn't saying much given that it's just 3 guys. There's still a couple of ships full of people sad Axis is pushed back.

>>16152696

It's the reason given, and we're not given any reason to doubt it.
>>
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>>16143248
The Jov is the true puppetmaster behind all the Earth Sphere's wars.
>>
>>16152880

Only according to Crossbone. The only animation they're responsible for is Victory.
>>
I always thought that a decent amount of the population of Side 3 got reorganized with the colonies being moved after the war.

Makes sense to break up any diehard political groups and to insure that the Side 3 industrial base was gutted. (All future Neo Zeon conflicts are nowhere close to the scale of the OYW)
>>
>>16153629
Side 3 got to remain (technically) independent after the war though.
>>
>>16153906
Well no wonder Neo Neo Neo Neo Zeon keeps popping up, some shitstirrer on Side 3 probably argued that Side 3 remaining independent meant that Zeon technically won the OYW.
>>
>>16154043
The principality of Zeon was dissolved. The ones running side 3 after the war are the republic of Zeon, and they're scheduled to be re-absorbed into the EF by UC 100. Preventing this reabsorbtion was the motivation behind Full Frontal's actions in Unicorn as it would mean the last independant nation within the Earthsphere would disappear.
>>
>>16154155
>the last independant nation within the Earthsphere would disappear.
You mean aside from side 6?
>>
>>16154298
Side 6 was reabsorbed into the EF at the end of the war.
>>
>>16145537
Civil Wars tend to be smaller scale because it's the same faction fighting each other as opposed to two free standing armies.

Also,
Zeon did nothing wrong
>>
>>16148486
>those women are important sources of information on Zeon leadership, not expendable rape magnets.
Why not both?
>>
>>16154315

Source? Because I'm pretty sure nothing in animation ever says that.
>>
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>>16154602
That's because no animation ever deals with the political history of Side 6. We assume it's a part of the EF again because Londo Bell had no trouble docking there as if it were a foreign nation, and Side 6 being independent would have interfered with the EF reorganizing all of the sides in the middle of the 0080s.
>>
>>16144874
Origin isn't even trying to be canon with the original show, anon.




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