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Were the Zekes right?
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>>16676985
about what
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Well they sure as shit weren't wrong, so you can draw your own conclusions
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>>16676985
The Feds only won because of Author Fiat. Prove me wrong.
Protip: You can't.
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>>16676985
No, they were left
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>>16677006
Feds developed better suits, had homefield advantage for majority of war, and dwarfed zeon in population and rescources
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>>16677006

Both sides only existed and had their circumstances because of author fiat. Also, Zeon being so overwhelmingly strong for much of the war was also author fiat, and a single Side managing to destroy 4 other Sides, decimate a 5th and take over the Earth was power wank meant to make them a more scary enemy in the first place.
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>>16677006
No one can prove you wrong because you could dismiss anything as just being author fiat. Zeon lost because of in-fighting. Char fucks Garma, so North America's lost and Degwin's totally disillusioned. M'quve fucks Ral, so White Base gets to Odessa, forcing them out of their key occupation stronghold. Gihren fucks Degwin, wastes the Colony Laser on a power play and pisses off Kcylia. Kcylia fucks Gihren, confuses the retreat long enough for Char to catch up. Char fucks Kcylia, the Zabis are dead, Zeon has no choice but to surrender. You could call each of those author fiat, claim that no one would ever REEEEEEEALLY act like that, that would never REEEEEALLY happen, but it'd be a shallow way of looking at characterisation.
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>>16677006
the gondom
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>>16677006
I still don't get why only 1 side rebelled (sure side 6 became neutral but they were still super feddie aligned), you'd think at least 1 would have sided with Zeon (to be the Italy to Zeon's Germany).
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>>16677027

> Char fucks Garma, so North America's lost

The White Base was about to escape regardless of Char or Garma. Char spotted their hiding place and could have exposed them a little earlier, but they'd hidden long enough that they would have been successful regardless.

> M'quve fucks Ral

Amuro destroys 3 named pilots in Doms a few days later after no important battles, so Ral getting the Doms wouldn't have many any difference.

> Kcylia fucks Gihren, confuses the retreat long enough for Char to catch up.

What retreat? Char to catch up with who? Char was out fighting the Gundam when Kycilia kills Gihren and wasn't intending anything to do with Kycilia or Gihren. His murder of Kycilia was just opportunism on his part, no premeditated in any way. Also, Kycilia basically took over immediately from Gihren and didn't even do much different from him, so I doubt it made that much difference. Bright and Mira note that the Zeon forces faltered for a minute at the time, but that makes no sense, not unless Gihren was obsessively micro-managing every single unit on the battlefield. The people in the same room were the only ones who knew what happened, and they were only giving broad orders to the various fleets.

> Char fucks Kcylia, the Zabis are dead, Zeon has no choice but to surrender.

Zeon were already done regardless, and Kycilia is literally retreating after ordering her second in command to surrender once she's away. Whether she died or not wouldn't have changed anything about that battle. If she'd lived she'd probably have been able to organize a resistance at Side 3 itself, but given that A Baoa Qu was already the last dregs of Zeon, where they had to draft in raw recruits to fill cockpits whatever she could organize would have been steamrolled by the Federation and only delayed the inevitable by a few days.
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>>16677048
Side 3 was the farthest one and had the least control by the Federation. Seems like dissidents and other people who opposed the Federation probably flocked there before the war, probably from as far back as when before it declared itself independent.
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>>16676985
How would the OYW have gone if Operation: British successfully dropped on Jaburo? How would it have affected Zeon's image, being that Jaburo is a purely military target?
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>>16677048

Side 6 were only Feddie aligned in 0080; in 0079 there's no sign of it and the White Base takes pains to avoid pissing them off in any way. Even Char and other Zeon commanders won't cross them for the majority of the arc, and Char only implies that Zeon might go to war with them while still following their rules, as a way to get the guy talking to him to back down. No-one will fight in their territory, Side 6 treats both sides equally and seems to be making good money trading with both while both sides agree to put away weapons in their colonies and so on. It's honestly a more interesting element than 0080 just making them a secret Federation ally, though it's not like that isn't without historical precedent and Side 7 disappears as an element following 0079 anyway so 0080 could basically do what it wanted with them.
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>>16677076

Pearl Harbor presumably.
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>>16677069
>The White Base was about to escape regardless of Char or Garma. Char spotted their hiding place and could have exposed them a little earlier, but they'd hidden long enough that they would have been successful regardless.
I thought the point was that they were able to kill Garma after Char manipulated the outcome to his liking. Garma's the commander of Zeon's entire earth-side force, after all.

>Side 7 disappears as an element following 0079 anyway
Side 7's single colony becomes Gryps, doesn't it?
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>>16676985
No.
He is sitting in left side.
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>>16677094

Kycilia was M'Quve's direct commander and he was Earth based, so I don't think Garma had that much control. Regardless, the White Base was just looking to escape while Garma was trying to destroy them and Char managed to take advantage of events to tick one name off his list. The White Base was hiding out to trick Garma so they could get away easier, but Char found them and could have blown the whistle a few minutes early but I don't recall it making much difference since the Gundam was already fucking up Garma's units if I recall. I'll double check later.

> Side 7

Side 6 sorry.
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>>16677069
>The White Base was about to escape regardless of Char or Garma.
The point was that Garma's death broke the NA occupation force.
>Amuro destroys 3 named pilots in Doms a few days later after no important battles
And your assumptions is that he'd have been able to deal with a squad commanded by Ral. We have no idea what he would have done with them, what tactic he would've used, and how effective it would have been.
>What retreat? Char to catch up with who?
The Zeek retreat to Side 3 from A Baoa Qu, allowing Char to catch up with Kcylia and fuck her.
>ordering her second in command to surrender once she's away.
Ordering him to surrender A Baoa Qu, she planned to carry the fight on to the homeland.
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>>16677102

> The point was that Garma's death broke the NA occupation force.

It might have demoralized them, but his death didn't make them not exist. If someone else couldn't command them to a win then Garma, who wasn't portrayed as an especially competent commander (Char out does him at every turn, constantly realizing things Garma doesn't) then they were probably on the outs anyway.

> And your assumptions is that he'd have been able to deal with a squad commanded by Ral

As opposed to the assumption that he couldn't? If he could deal with 3 named characters he could probably deal with one named character and a handful of unnamed ones.

> The Zeek retreat to Side 3 from A Baoa Qu, allowing Char to catch up with Kcylia and fuck her.

Again, Char wasn't looking to catch up with her; he just found out she was nearby and couldn't resist. When Kycilia kills Gihren there's no-one talking of retreat and everyone is still at least acting like it's possible to win. It's only a short while later when the Federation begins landing on and invading A Baoa Qu that Kycilia starts talking about retreating.

> Ordering him to surrender A Baoa Qu, she planned to carry the fight on to the homeland.

Yes, which I acknowledged but which was unlikely to do much good given that aforementioned detail that A Baoa Qu was already using a number of recruits with little training or experience simply to fill out suits. Whatever fight she could organize would have been token at best, and more likely to be with the goal of better terms for surrender than any hope of winning.

Infighting didn't help Zeon and certainly did a good job expediting their fall, but they were basically fucked anyway and even if they'd all been one big happy family they still were probably going to lose.
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>>16677143
>It might have demoralized them
Morale is important. Hell, the blow to Degwin's morale was arguably more substantial than any effect it had on the occupation itself. That was a contributing factor to the Zabi family collapsing in on itself, after all, and Gihren blowing his load early with the Colony Laser.
>Garma, who wasn't portrayed as an especially competent commander (Char out does him at every turn,
Char himself is exceptional, though. He's got an above average military mind and Newtype intuition to boot, even really good commanders are bound to look bad by comparison. That they didn't cause any more trouble for White Base between Garma's death and WB reaching the Pacific is a fair indicator as to the state of the NA forces without him.
>If he could deal with 3 named characters
You're thinking in meta terms for a discussion about macro events, there are no 'named characters' in-universe
>Char wasn't looking to catch up with her;
He specifically arms up, tells Sayla he can't let the Zabis go free and flies off, I don't see how you can think it was coincidental
>which was unlikely to do much good
Yeah, fair enough. By that point the best they could hope for was Side 3 not getting Berlin-style raped, I'll grant that.
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>>16677202

> the blow to Degwin's morale was arguably more substantial than any effect it had on the occupation itself.

Degwin was only ever commander in name; the narrator makes it clear that Degwin had handed over power of the military to Gihren before the war even began with the implication it was Gihren who started the war in the first place. And Gihren used Garma's death to rally Zeon, so it had a reviving effect on a flagging war if anything.

> Gihren blowing his load early with the Colony Laser.

The most he could have delayed is a few hours, because the Federation was already massing to go to A Baoa Qu. As is, he already destroyed a third of the Federation's fleet so I doubt a more calculating approach would have gotten him much more.

> even really good commanders are bound to look bad by comparison.

Garma never comes off as that great though, even without the comparison. Competent at best, but never really good.

> You're thinking in meta terms for a discussion about macro events

I'd have thought it was both at the very least, if not a flat out meta discussion; but okay. So what makes you think Amuro would lose to Ral if he'd gotten 3 Doms when Amuro beats 3 other guys who are also ace pilots only a few days later? Really, I don't know how to disguise it any more than that. The idea Ral could have won if he'd just gotten the Doms just seems silly to me.

> He specifically arms up, tells Sayla he can't let the Zabis go free and flies off

He also specifically says that he guesses he can't let them go after all just after a dying soldier tells him Kycilia is nearby. He wasn't looking for Kycilia; he was looking for Amuro who he'd just got done having a fight with.
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>>16677234
>Degwin was only ever commander in name;
True, absolutely, but his losing faith led him to negotiate with Revil, which led Gihren to off him, which led Kcylia to end him,
>So what makes you think Amuro would lose to Ral if he'd gotten 3 Doms when Amuro beats 3 other guys who are also ace pilots only a few days later?
Because with M'quve holding them back, WB had a chance to recover, meet up with Matilda and resupply and repair the damage from the hard-fought string of battles with Ral's team. If they'd been passed on as Dozle intended Ral would've have had the WB isolated, tired, damaged and low on supplies.
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>>16677299

> his losing faith led him to negotiate with Revil, which led Gihren to off him, which led Kcylia to end him

Even if they'd all lived and Degwin hadn't gone to negotiate it wouldn't have changed the course of the war though, because a lot of the elements that brought them down wouldn't change i.e. the GM and the Solar Ray. They'd have been able to retreat all the way to Side 3 but they'd have had no major resources and only been able to fight a resistance for better terms since there'd be no way for them to win.

> If they'd been passed on as Dozle intended Ral would've have had the WB isolated, tired, damaged and low on supplies.

M'Quve couldn't have passed them on before all that happened though as far as I recall. Again, I'll double check later when I get home, but I don't remember M'Quve having the opportunity to give them to Ral before any of that could happen. He just pretended they were destroyed and refused to give them, not delayed it out for several days before saying it.
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The people of Zeon had every reason to want independence, but the Zabi family were a bunch of monstrous, retarded psychopaths. Remember that Side 3 declared its independence something like 17 years before the war ever started, and the Federation was prepared to unconditionally surrender after the Sydney colony drop until the Zabis intentionally sabotaged their own victory to prolong the war long enough to claim territory on Earth. All the media that apologizes for Zeon tends to conveniently ignore that the Zabi family was the real villain in the war, not the "oppressive" Federation.
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>>16677996
>This poster is Char. Do not trust what he says.
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>>16676985
No, but the Titans sure were.
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>>16678091

Were what, Zekes? That's what they became in the end I suppose, yea.
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>>16678101
Nope, the sole moral faction in early UC. With the best mobile suits, mobile armor, and uniforms, as well.
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>>16678112
>Fugging evul Zeeks, gassin' that colony full of civvies 'fore they dropped it, fuggen animals
>We oughta gas all them damn Spacenoids, better 'n they deserve
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>>16678120
Quit talking like you're one of the Black Tri-Stars
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>>16678129
Don't hate me 'cause you ain't me, Earthboy
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>>16677069
>The people in the same room were the only ones who knew what happened

Watch 0083. If Delaz knew about Gihren's death then I'm sure other admirals did.
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>>16677085
>than 0080 just making them a secret Federation ally

I think the deal with the Federation garrison is that they were there before the OYW and even though Side 6 declared neutrality they didn't have the authority to lawfully kick out a Federation base in colony that was already stationed there.
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>>16677076
>being that Jaburo is a purely military target?

It still would have had wide ranging effects on the rest of the planet. Not to mention the whole wiping out of endangered amazonian anaimal species.
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>>16677234
>The idea Ral could have won if he'd just gotten the Doms just seems silly to me.

Not him but Amuro only wins against the black tri stars because they kill his waifu, causing him to go full newtype on them.
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>>16678160

Let me amend that statement just for you anon: the people in the same room were the only ones who knew what happened at the time. Once the battle was over it wouldn't be at all surprising for some of them to talk about it, especially when the war was over at that point but at the time no-one outside the room knew or would be affected by that event.

>>16678168

Why wouldn't they have the authority to lawfully kick them out? Side 6 was a separate entity from the Federation with their own laws if they so wished.
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>>16678188
>the people in the same room were the only ones who knew what happened at the time.

Let me amend my statement just for you anon: Delaz knew about Gihrens death DURING the battle, which is why is fleet retreats before the battle is over. You are wrong. Again, go watch 0083.
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>>16677299

> Because with M'quve holding them back, WB had a chance to recover, meet up with Matilda and resupply and repair the damage from the hard-fought string of battles with Ral's team.

I just double checked, and that's not what happens at all; not in the TV show or the movies. They don't get resupplied by Matilda and the supply corps until after Ramba dies. Ramba already attacks them in that state and they survive multiple attacks from him under those conditions.

>>16678112

The remnants of the Titans join up with Haman's Neo Zeon in ZZ.

>>16678181

No, he didn't. He had a single Newtype flash (the first of the show), but he didn't even know Matilda was in the Medea and he'd already killed one Tri-Star before another killed Matilda.

>>16678194

Delaz figures it out based on orders that are being given or something if I recall, and isn't after being told it or anything. Which other admirals didn't do, because his was the only fleet to leave A Baoa Qu and even that only retconned after 0079. The original scene just shows Kycilia killing Gihren, then everyone stopping for a few seconds to stare before she assumes command with no protest after telling everyone there they can sort it out after the battle but not even Gihren can get away with patricide.
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>>16678297
>The remnants of the Titans join up with Haman's Neo Zeon in ZZ.
Not all of them, but then ones who went back to the Federation got put on trial, so it's understandable that they'd join with the one faction offering them refuge.
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>>16677048
I mean if another Side joined as Zeon's italy Zeon would have been even worse off.

>>16677048
Mainline UC doesn't really go into specifics but the Origin version of UC had bits of explanation, namely the attack on Side 2 disgusting the other colonies and the Feddies deploying fleets to them to make it clear that they were going to be "Protected" while also making it implicitly known that they'd be blown to bits if they joined the rebellion.

Though they DID have supporters on those colonies most were forced out.
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>>16678297
>Ramba already attacks them in that state and they survive multiple attacks from him under those conditions.
True, but Ramba's suffering from just as much unresupplied attrition as they are.
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>>16678470

The White Base is able to survive another 2 or 3 episodes including multiple attacks by Goufs piloted by unnamed nobodies after Ramba dies before they're properly resupplied though, so I think they'd have been able to fend him off regardless of whether he got new suits or not.
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>>16678297
I believe what anon meant is that WB recovers before having to encounter the doms, as opposed to having to deal with the dom equipped Ramba Ral team before being resupplied
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>>16676985
About wanting independence? Yes.

About how they went about it? No

They also lost the freedom they wanted by shackling themselves to a royalty movement.
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>>16678518

I doubt it, since Amuro thrived under pressure and wasn't struggling notably more against Ramba Ral or anyone else because the White Base had been under duress for weeks on end with no supply or chance to rest and relax in that time. The entire crew did really.
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>>16678538
Wasn't Zeon already independent?
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>>16678545
No, their government was basically an auxiliary of the Earth Federation. Taxes went to EF also.
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>>16678545
>>16678548
They had SLIGHTLY more independence than most other Sides, but not much.
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>>16678563

They were an autonomous state with their own government that had some measure of self rule, that's a bit more than slight. Especially when that's usually a good rule to eventual peaceful independence on it's own. No other side had any form of government. That the Federation could step in on them would obviously still rankle, but they had much more than any other Side at the same time.
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>>16676985
REMEMBAH SYDNEY YA FUCKIN POOFTAH
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>>16677048
There's only so many parallels to draw between Gundam and WWII factions. Even if Zeon became a fascist state under the Zabis, Zeon himself wanted an independent republic, not the dictatorship Zabi and his kids created.

The critical flaw in Zeon's ideology was that he wanted all sides to be fully independent – even from each other. That meant he never built up a political network which could bind the various leaderships together. In a sense, Zabi was more successful because of his authoritarianism, but it too wasn't enough.

The Federation had resources and unity on their side. Zeon could have won through ideological unity and guerrilla warfare, but that fell apart.
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>>16678593
Side six got away with going neutral, Loum waffled a bit from side to side before siding with the EFF and then getting caught in battle.
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>>16677048
Because no one wanted to pair up with the psychos that went on colony gassing sprees?
Also maybe the Fed's """repression""" wasn't nearly as bad as zeekfags made out to be?
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>>16676985
>MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai
>in-production before Operation British
>>16677099
underrated, but if he's sitting on the left side doesn't that mean that he's driving on the right side of the road?
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>>16677006
Did they really win, though? The Federation faced nothing but a long, slow, painful decline after OYW as it progressively became a weaker, more corrupt and inept version of itself. It never really recovered.

It speaks volumes that they couldn't really finish off the Zeeks but settled for a lousy armistice that left Axis untouchable. The Titans was their one last shot at keeping the spacenoids in line but they fucked it up--by the time CCA rolled around they were literally buying off Char's Zeon in a disgraceful act of appeasement.
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>>16678768

The TV series implies their neutrality didn't happen until after the war had started given that most of the Side was destroyed according to the narrator. And that a large chunk of the reason they were neutral was economic, given that the White Base goes there to get some businesses to help protect them against further attacks from Zeon. It comes off as a richer Side that basically used money to maintain independence.
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>>16678297
>They don't get resupplied by Matilda and the supply corps until after Ramba dies. Ramba already attacks them in that state and they survive multiple attacks from him under those conditions.
That was my point. Ral kept up his harsh assault, and with the squad of Doms, as well as the other shit he had left over once the Gouf was fucked (a Zaku II, the armed Gallop, the Magella top) he would've been able to put even more pressure on before they had a chance to get their shit together.
Picture this- Ramba Ral leads a boarding party on to WB, as he did normally, but now it's supported by a team of Doms attacking from outside.
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>>16679052
>Did they really win, though? The Federation faced nothing but a long, slow, painful decline after OYW as it progressively became a weaker, more corrupt and inept version of itself. It never really recovered.
Collapsing about a hundred years later wouldn't mean they lost the war. They definitely won that war. And then had some more wars afterward before collapsing decades later. I won't deny the OYW sparked a shitton of stuff that eventually led to the fall of the Federation, but it doesn't mean they didn't win. The price was just far too much for the victory they got.

>It speaks volumes that they couldn't really finish off the Zeeks but settled for a lousy armistice that left Axis untouchable.
I don't recall any armistice legally declaring Axis untouchable. For one, Side 3 was turned into a puppet government of the Federation. Second, there are stories about the Federation sending troops to attack Axis. Third, Axis is never declared off-limits by anyone in any animated dialogue for any damn reason, especially when Axis Zeon enters the gryps war bringing Axis along with them.

>by the time CCA rolled around they were literally buying off Char's Zeon in a disgraceful act of appeasement.
Technically Char's Zeon was making the purchase. Char including disarmament was making the deal too sweet for the retarded Feds to resist, since to them they were getting rid of a worthless rock AND the enemy was promising to play nice and give money away to them.
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>>16679708
I don't recall most of Side 6 being destroyed. Most databook fluff claims sides 1, 2, 4, and later 5 were decimated in the first month or so of fighting, not side 6. Mark Simmons' timeline says that Side 6 declared neutrality on January 11th, and echoes the databook claims that only sides 1, 2, and 4 had been attacked by that point.

Can you tell me when the narrator says side 6 was mostly destroyed? I'm even looking up Gundamofficial, and it also seems to say Side 6 was mostly untouched.

http://web.archive.org/web/20111126153013/http://www.gundamofficial.com:80/worlds/uc/background/glossary_locations.html#side6
>Side 6
>A cluster of space colonies, also called "Reah," which is located at the stable region in Earth orbit known as Lagrange point 4. Side 6 declares itself neutral on January 11, U.C. 0079, thus escaping the ravages of the One Year War. Quietly aligned with the Principality of Zeon throughout most of the war, it begins leaning towards the Earth Federation as the conflict enters its final weeks.
>When the Sides are reorganized in U.C. 0084, the Side 6 designation is reassigned to a colony cluster at Lagrange point 5. (See Maps of Earth Sphere.)
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>>16679735

> Four clusters of Space Colonies were decimated by the war, and only a few Space Colonies within Side 6 still stand

I don't remember which episode I took it from, but I'm pretty sure it's from an opening narration played several times and it's only the first (of two) about the war in that style so I'd guess it's the second or third narration burst and probably a dozen or so episodes in. Though I could be totally off. I'll check when I get home, but that won't be for about 12 hours.
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>>16679723

Ral only mounted a raiding party using guerrilla tactics because M'Quve wasn't providing him Doms. If M'Quve had provided Doms he'd have just mounted a regular offense using them instead of a joint offense of that plus the raiding party. He might have mounted the guerrilla raid still after the Doms were destroyed if he'd gotten them, but his wording when Hamon asks what he's going to do since M'Quve has reneged on his word suggests he wouldn't have mounted a guerrilla raid along with a frontal mobile suit assault if he'd gotten the Doms. Plus, the raid was basically a desperation move using the last few resources he had anyway so it makes sense only as a final gamble when he has no other hand left.

Plus, again, Amuro and the White Base crew in general thrived under the relentless pressure Char, Ramba and M'Quve piled on to them with little in the way of rest or supplies during the first half of the show. They grew tighter as a crew and their skills at their jobs flourished. They did crack to some degree, with Amuro running away and arguing with Bright over his role; but that fissure was healed regardless of downtime or supplies. If Ral got the Doms they weren't going to crack harder, because that pressure was the forming of the crew and what made them come together in the first place.
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>>16677996
we need a zeek one of this
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>>16677996
True, though it's arguable Kycilia had a point that they need a Uranium source to ensure that the peace remained peaceful.

Also I really do like Garma and sorta-like Dozle (Other than y'know the side 2 attacks and Operation British)
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I will never not be a Zeke
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>>16677006
Who/what is Author Flat?
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>>16676985
I believe Char's old man was absolutely right in terms of his belief that independence from humanity would allow spacenoids to potentially progress as a species. Unfortunately the Zabis and most Zeon leader other than ZZD were dirty and less righteous in their pursuit, and resorted to despicable tactics that have rightfully been brought up while debating but unfortunately undercut the validity of Zeon's core pursuits.
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>>16679901
I think that can be interpreted as saying that Side 6 wasn't all that numerous.
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>>16684510

> only a few colonies are left standing
> that just means it was never that numerous

I think that's reaching.
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>>16684516
It doesn't really mention that it was attacked specifically.
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>>16680334
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>>16684523

So what? Did some aliens do a drive by shooting of the other colonies? Did they blow them up themselves because they were out of fireworks?
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>>16684560
Compared to how many colonies there were, Side 6 is only "A few."
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>>16684623
Source?
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>>16684623

So what happened to the rest to say only "a few" are still standing? What knocked down the rest?
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>>16676985
The Zeon people? Yes.
Space Hitler? No.
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>>16679052
>The Titans was their one last shot at keeping the spacenoids in line
Are you not aware that Jamitov's whole purpose was to incite a ground war that would despoil the environment and force the remaining humans to migrate to space? That's the whole reason the GP02 existed in the first place. Jamitov is a closet Deikunist.
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>>16677996
>All the media that apologizes for Zeon

Such as?
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>>16684738
>>16684628
I personally am interpreting that line as "Only a few of the total non-zeon colonies remain, in Side 6."

Rather than "Only a few of the initial side 6 colonies remain." which is how you guys seem to be interpreting it.
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>>16684805
You're forgetting about his dad, Space Stalin, who was also wrong.

Not sure who to compare Kycelia too but she was also wrong.

And Dozle, poor, overly trusting Dozle was wrong because he kept trying to please his evil family rather than using his own conscience until well after it was too late.

Was Dozle directly in charge of executing the Side 2 attack and Operation British in the main continuity or just Origin?
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>>16679052
Considering Zeon was even worse off? I think I'd say so. The Federation at the least was still a standing government; Zeon was effectively reduced to nothing but terrorists in a far shorter period of time and suffered from far worse infighting during the Zeta-ZZ period. You say they never recovered, but they never died either, which is more than I think can be said for Zeon.
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>>16677076
>How would the OYW have gone if Operation: British successfully dropped on Jaburo?
War would have been over even if Revil escaped and gave his speech because a successful Operation British would have meant the complete destruction of the Federation's GHQ. And not only that, the destruction of their main R&D facilities and factories. While Luna II had some production facilities of their own, there would be no way they could keep up with the demand necessary for the war effort. And even if the Federation decided to fight to the last man, the remaining Zeon fleets under Dozle and Kycillia would have gone for broke with an attack on Luna II, and since all Federation had was a conventional fleet, even if Zeon took heavy loses, they'd still capture Luna II.

Remember, the Federation was ready to end the war even though Operation British failed before Revil interfered, and this was with Jabruo intact. The destruction of it would have been so demoralizing, the Federation would have just signed an unconditional surrender.

>>16677048
Because the Federation maintained strong enough support in the colonial governments and colonists, while second class citizens, were content enough that they didn't want to rock the boat to better the lives like Side 3. Side 3 attempted for almost 20 years to get the other Sides to see their side (no pun intended) of what was best for the Sides. So it's not like Zeon just decided to blow them all up on a random whim.
Also, if you go by the Origin timeline, there were Zeon sympathetic colonists in the all the Sides, but they all opted to migrate to Side 3, which would dilute any local movements within the other Sides.

>>16677085
Side 6 was technically sympathetic to Zeon, but played both sides during the war because it was better for business and then switched their allegiance to the Federation when they gained the upper hand towards the end of the war.
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>>16685095

Which is why I said you're reaching, because the narrator isn't talking about Zeon and non-Zeon colonies at all; just colonies full stop. Where he notes that only a few colonies within Side 6 specifically, which has nothing to do with Zeon, are left standing. The wording "left standing" suggesting something knocked the rest out. Besides, if he was dividing it in to Zeon and non-Zeon colonies, he'd note that there's one at Side 7 too. It's just a really far-fetched interpretation that's deliberately and awkwardly twisting words to fit a specific destination rather than just accepting their meaning.
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>>16685106
>You're forgetting about his dad, Space Stalin, who was also wrong.
Gihren's more like Stalin, if you consider Degwin to be like Lenin and Deikun to be Marx.
Deikun comes up with the ideas, Degwin mods them enough to fit his own ends then puts them into practice, Gihren just does whatever the fuck suits him while bullshitting about how it's totally what Deikun and Daddy would want.
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>>16684524
thanks




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