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File: gundam_wing_mecha.jpg (206 KB, 1280x720)
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So having had a long time to look back on Wing, I do still feel like it started off strong. Good set up, decent action, and some interesting behind the scenes plot set up. the characters felt real and grounded, well, except for Heero. And Relenas desire for revenge felt genuine and honest. But then it nose dived. The plot kept contriving reasons for the characters not to kill anyone. Unless Quetre was losing his shit. But then we get into Mobile Dolls and Absolute Pacifism, and it feels like the brasher characters like Wu Fei just can't get enough to do. So m question is, thus, What the Hell happened? Why did it change so much so drastically and in such a seemingly short amount of time?
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>>16681671
I think it changed directors/writers mid way. Which is why we got those filler review eps instead of episode zero. And why Quatre's new type powers and heart of outterspace were dropped or unexplained
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>>16681671
>Quatre's new type powers

what?
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>>16681699

Different anon here, I think it was about the time where he went crazy and claimed he felt space's anguish and started killing everyone
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>>16681699
>>16681718
He was saying "The heart of Outer Space: was telling him who to trust earlier on.
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>>16681699
Quatre demonstrates telepathy or empathy powers a few times in the series. And at one point seems to read Heero's thoughts.

In the original concept all 5 pilots were going to have some type of Newtype ability. Wufei's power was going to be the ability to tell good or evil intentions. In the end, bringing in the concept of Newtypes to Wing was dropped and we just have some loose connections with Quatre.

>Now I get it, Heero is the Heart of Outterspace
Made no fucking sense.
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I RECOGNIZE THAT STOCK FOOTAGE.
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>>16682023
As much as the later half of Wing shits itself I really did like Endless Waltz.
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I think that the middle arc when the boys return to the colonies is excellent personally. They had a really great low point after oz beat them down through diplomacy and they were left not really being sure what to do with themselves, and were getting slowly guided by people they inspired through their earlier actions. the Mercurius and Vayeate made for some much needed good mecha action. Wing is kind of over criticized because of toonami babies, but it is pretty middle of the road for the franchise as a whole after all the shit we got after Turn A.
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>>16682520
It did present some interesting plot points and actually had less stock footage kills than most of the arcs so that was nice.
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>>16681671
Still better than Zeta and Char's Counterattack.
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>>16681671
>Started off strong
>Relena
A show that starts with
>"I kill U bitch"
>"Please Come Back I'm so Wet!"
only to be topped with
>"FUCK YOU GUY ON MY SIDE!"
>"I'm going to shoot the asshole that tried killing both of us"
>"HOW DARE YOU! *Gets in front of gun* YOU ABSOLUTE BARBARIAN I'LL HEAL HIS WOUNDS"

Was shit from the beginning it didn't get worse it only revealed itself
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>>16682766
Eh, she at least felt like a teenage girl.

I like the abridged interpretation of it going to the extreme with that trait.

God, I dread them reaching the part where she herself is Down with Pacifism.

Unless they manage significant rewrites.
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>>16682766
This is probably the opinion of a hypocritical idiot who thinks UC Gundam is somehow better.
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>>16682786
If teenage girls acted like that the female population would have been rendered an endangered species and humanity would have either gone extinct or 100% Saudi Arabia'd to survive
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>>16682786
Pacifism Is good admissible philosophy, you fascist.
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>>16682798
All universes can be equally inferior to 00
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>>16682766
I recognize that picture from somewhere.
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>>16682830
Read the image name it's 1000% legit! ok it's Micheal from the office with Photoshop mustache
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>>16682838
looks kinda like a live action Robert Edwin House, which i imagine was the intent.
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>>16682902
I'm reaching the conclusion that you don't know what fallout Van Buren is but congratulations on reaching the correct answer anyway
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>>16682925
looked it up, am now sad that there is a Fallout game I cannot play. then again, new vegas had a lot of elements of it.
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>>16681671
I agree with some of what you're saying. I'm currently rewatching Wing for the first time since like 2007, and I'm actually enjoying it. You're right about the Newtype plot getting dropped. It's brought up a few times during the first half (Lady Une displays her newtype ability to Wu fei in episode 19).

However, the mobile dolls were set up in the first half of the show, so those were always a plot point. They mention them as early as episode 10 (when Heero blows up) and fully fleshed out in 17.
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>>16682947
New Vegas is a better Van Buren with Avellone reigned in to making you choose between nuking two settlements, not something like half of them.
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>>16682520
Really? I felt that was the weakest part of the show. It's an interesting premise but it stays way over it's welcome. I hear a lot of people get turned off by this section of the show.

Still love Wing tho.
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>>16681671
>Adding actual AI controlled robots in a Gundam show.
What the fuck were they thinking, the whole point of them is that people are piloting them. Having them be unmanned might make more sense but it's seriously lame.
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>>16684336
Commentary forseeing that Drone Warfare might look like it reduces casualties but tends to make acts of violence more common when it's just a button press.
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I liked the part when Quatre went insane
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>>16681869
>Made no fucking sense.

Quatre's a naive romantic. He believes in shit like divine right because he's a pampered rich kid, and has a meltdown when his worldview is threatened, but that doesn't mean he actually has psychic powers.

He says so much dumb shit and is constantly proven wrong by events in the show.
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>>16682786
hasn't that show been dead for years?
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>>16682520
The space stuff is just starting to get good and build to something when the writer/director drama happened. Then they toddle back to Earth in ones and twos, do the clip shows, and the show changes tack to full pacifism now.
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>>16684377
There's a new one that last updated in april https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaOPFwje0plSZpef1RyzNWg/videos
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>>16684384
Huh. Neat.
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I just rewatched it with a friend and it mostly seemed fine. If anything the show was mostly just inoffensive.
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>>16684375
>that doesn't mean he actually has psychic powers
I remember some pretty crazy shit from the first time Heero tries piloting Wing Zero, like him glowing and then Quatre glowing and talking nonsense or something. Not saying they're not simply insane, but there was onscreen evidence that something was going on if memory serves.
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>>16684329
The last arc is too contrived, the 3rd arc goes in circles with too much pascifism, and the first arc has poor characterization and too many boring battles of the boys stomping paper mache leos. The 2nd arc is great because it actually puts them in a vulnerable position, shows that a handful of super weapons themselves can’t actually do much, and shows how easily people can be swayed or just break, so they have a real struggle on their hands worth caring about, and it really emphasizes its political focus in a more mature and multifaceted way in comparison to the other arcs. I like the third arc as well, just not as much. The beginning and end of Wing are its weak points.
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>>16682806
There is a very good reason they had to be liberated in the first place over the course of the 20th Century
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>>16684458
Aside from the glowing and Quatre describing Heero as "the heart of outer space" it never amounted to anything in the show. Unless you take that description to be some kind of vague indication that Heero is the... protagonist of the show who becomes a hero for fighting against White Fang and all that shit.
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>>16684583
It just took up to the 20th century for us to socialize men enough and build up powerful enough government and law enforcement so that letting women out unaccompanied without them being victimized was tenable, they still flock to sociopaths like Charles Manson when given the opportunity, we’ve just bubble wrapped the world for them so they can kind of flourish independently now. Relena especially, being a sheltered rich girl, is just the type to be interested in a wild card like early Wing Heero, she didn’t really get the danger present and just viewed him as exciting because he was so novel unlike her overly socialized male classmates. I never found that part of the show too outlandish.
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>>16684666
>It just took up to the 20th century for us to socialize men enough and build up powerful enough government and law enforcement so that letting women out unaccompanied without them being victimized was tenable
Get tae fuck
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>>16683013
Did they introduce them that early? Ill admit I havent watched wing since like, 2009 or so. Regardless the way they implement it in the latter half of the show Just drives me up a wall. On a completely unrelated note, heres a guy with a cool design but no character. He literally undergoes Characterization Schizophrenia, flipping motivations, goals, names, and even ideologies over the span of a few episodes at a time, just so he could go through Char Aznables entire character arc from 0079, Zeta, and all the way through Chars Counterattack. It got so bad that he didn't get any original characterization until Endless Waltz.
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>>16683013
>>16685143
Episode 10 mentions a system on the Taurus being capable of Self-learning and possibly attacking without the pilot's consent. This just sounded like one of the Gundam Engineers (Duo's teacher with the umbrella-hair I think? Or maybe Heero's teacher I can't remember) worrying the Learning Computer onboard could go Skynet. Not that the intent from the beginning was to use them as self-piloting drones that later episodes showed to be the case.

Also yeah, they really REALLY rushed Zechs from one plot to the next with no real point, thought they did sorta imply at the end he'd always intended the Libra-Drop to be a bluff to scare people away from war since he helped blow up the final part.
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>>16681689

I've seen this rumor bandied about quite a bit, but I've no idea where at least the writer change part of it comes from because that's definitely not true. Katsuyuki Sumisawa/Sumizawa was the head writer for all of Wing. All of pretty much everything Wing. The TV show, Endless Waltz, Frozen Teardrop, Glory of the Losers and the Episode Zero manga at the very least. Wing is his baby, for better or worse. He's also spoken in interviews about the initial design phase of Wing and writing the final episodes (this interview for example https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2017-08-29/gundam-wing-screenwriter-katsuyuki-sumisawa/.120652, which is the first result Google throws out), so as far as he's concerned he was lead writer for the whole thing.

The director change thing is a bit harder to track since I don't see any direct confirmation that it didn't happen, but at the same time the only confirmation I can see is articles like https://screenrant.com/gundam-wing-mecha-anime-trivia-secrets-facts/, but that's not exactly the most reliable source and has no definite articles linked confirming it happened. Even then, they note that the replacement director wasn't credited for unspecificed reasons; which doesn't lend it credence either. Which isn't to say it didn't happen, but I'd love to see a source about it if it did.
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>>16681786
>>16681869
>>16684601
>>16684601
heero is a newtype he talks to his machine
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>>16685143
Forgot to post my own damn picture. God Damn Idiot Self.
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>>16685313
What it sounded like is kind of on you and how you interpreted that information. My episode 17, they're explicit on what the new control system is. From all intents and purposes, I don't see any reason to believe that mobile dolls weren't in there from the start, especially when you consider Treize and Zechs constantly harping on the aspect of Noble battle and the need/place of human soldiers.

>>16685143
Yea they're built up pretty early in the show.
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>>16685143
>>16685766
Zechs is a pretty good--and not entirely unoriginal--character until the moment his mask breaks. I swear that thing was holding the deadman-switch to his idiot button in the off position.
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>>16684341
Yeah wing really did a great job with this

Also the political posturing of terrorism vs peacekeeping, etc. How they could/couldnt fight based on media/perception of masses
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>>16689615
Eh they sorta take a really goofy hardline anti-deterrence stance and also in order for mobile dolls to work the entire sensor-screwing justification for mobile suits existing in the first place has to be tossed out.
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>>16690112
They openly admit mobile suits are mostly for intimidation, more realistic than minovsky bullshit that doesnt actually justify MS
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>>16690202
Yet the mobile suits outperform more practical combat hulls.

Eh, Minovsky and Amacs are not the BEST explanation, but I do feel they're better than Wing's total handwave.
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>>16690202

Reasonable, maybe. Realistic, not really. AC is a setting where conventional weapons platforms can and do exist, as well as where they're demonstrably practical but where they're just never taken up for no apparent reason. Noin uses a laser cannon on a jet to take out several Virgo II's for instsmce, at a time when even the Gundams are somewhat struggling with them.

Saying "oh, but they're just not intimidating" isn't really an explanation when multiple factions are trying to overtake the current world order and can't do so despite using conventional weapons platforms that just don't work that well against mobile suits when a named character isn't using them as well as because people fighting to win instead of intimidate aren't going to care. Which defines everyone not currently in charge.
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>>16681671

good ost bad show bad characters bad plot
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>>16690226
True, also for some reason the magnetic shields work on Beam guns (Plasma based in AC, so that makes sense), but also work on missiles and even conventional shells. But not pure photon based lasers.
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>>16685453
So wait, youre saying that the lead writer for wing was just, shit?




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