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There's something I don't understand about G-Reco.

The kuntala are stated to be a class of people turned into a good source at the end of the Universal Century.

However G-Reco takes place after Turn A.

There are no kuntala in Turn A, and the inhabitants of earth in CC are not even aware of UC as a time period.

So what's the deal? Were Kuntala actually something that appeared at the end of CC?
>>
>>16977361
>However G-Reco takes place after Turn A.
No, it's the other way around.
>>
>>16977363
But Tomino said in an interview it comes after Turn A. Is he just senile?
>>
>>16977365
Sunrise said otherwise.
I used to defend "G-Reco is after Turn-A" argument but then I just stopped caring.
It doesn't matter for either show anyway.
>>
>>16977365
The G Lucifer gave it away.
>>
>>16977391
Fair enough! It all seems to fit together better as a prequel to Turn A anyway so I guess that's how I'll interpret it. Still a little disquieting that the director would be so confused about his own work. Guess his brain is getting a bit foggy!
>>
>>16977409
>Fit together as prequel to Turn A

>No Turn A in RG
>Photon Torpedo is based on MB
>G-Lucifer has scaled down MB version
>No white Idol
>No moon race

Can you people be less stupid?
>>
>>16977492
????

None of these are as big an issue as the Kuntala thing. The Turn A could easily be something developed much later (H-Lucifer's scales down MB might be the progenitor of what we see in Turn A). Also there are moon colonies so they may be ancestors of the moon race

I'd love to see your explanation of the kuntala if you have it
>>
>>16977492
-well no shit it isn't around why would it be
-citation fucking needed
-nothing stopping the Turn A from just being a scaled up version of Lucifer's shit
-literally what
-there's a whole bunch of moonfaggots they just call themselves something different before the MLB knocked most of the stupid out of them
gee was that so fucking hard
>>
>>16977494
Not to mention the whole Jaburo thing (why didn't Turn A obliterate that? three billion tons of nanoskin that magically fucked off afterwards?) or why everyone talks about the Universal Century and Newtype shit like it's not-so-ancient history.
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>>16977492
>>No Turn A in RG
>>No white Idol
The idea is that the Turn A ended the period before CC with its Moonlight Butterfly. Turn A couldn't exist until the very end of RG, and the White Doll could only exist from CC1 onwards.
>G-Lucifer has scaled down MB version
Like the other guy said, there's no reason to think it got it from the Turn A instead of the other way around.
>No moon race
The Towasangans live in Lunar orbit, they'd just need to start moving down
>>
>>16977516
>Like the other guy said, there's no reason to think it got it from the Turn A instead of the other way around
The Turn A was based on the Turn X.
>>
>>16977361
You can't physically tell whether someone is a Kuntala by looking at them. They just bred into humanity until there were no more purebred Kuntala left.
>>
>>16977518
And the Turn X was based on?
>>
>>16977518
Then simply base the Turn X on the G-Lucifer.
>>
>>16977524

space mothra
>>
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>>16977492
>>No moon race
Can you be less stupid?
>>
>>16977522
Your point is?
>>
>>16977524
Turtles all the way down
>>
>>16977409
>Still a little disquieting that the director would be so confused about his own work. Guess his brain is getting a bit foggy!
He was probably just mocking the autistic people that care too much about continuity in fiction works by throwing that declaration.
>>
>>16977539
Gundam builds itself on continuity and those sorts of things tho. He shouldn't make so many shows dedicated to fictional space wars if he doesn't want that kind of audience
>>
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Well Tomino said G-Reco in it's early conception was planned to be post UC pre CC. But as production evolved it became post CC, and he thought people would think it obvious to be post CC.

So the Kuntala iare probably a conceptual artifact that got carried over, but loses some context in that transition.

With that said. I'd imagine after the Turn A blacked history and technology people in space were probably forced to cannibalise to survive, if any survived at all. The characters in CC that we see were probably either unaware they even existed, or it just wasn't relevant to their situation to even bring up. Really with these types of thing the viewer, and Sunrise can retcon/come up with reasons for things happening as much as they feel like.

I personally like to think the Kuntala evolved into Ginghams warrior tribe, then after Turn A was disbanded again. Just because the talk of Kuntala on G-Reco reminded me specifically of Ginghams speeches and stuff.
>>
>>16977550
Seems exceedingly strange to me that they'd like, look into the black history to rediscover the concept of kuntala, then track down peoples genealogy and categorize who does and doesn't belong to this more than centuries old class of people. But fair enough i guess!
>>
>>16977550
To be fair, the talk of Kuntala only comes from people who liked near the capital tower in South America, you could easily say it didn't happen in Ameria, or that Kuntala there all died out.
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>>16977529
I always imagined them as distant Zanscare descendants since their MS have a Jovian aesthetic.
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>>16977550
>A blacked history and technology people in space were probably forced to cannibalise to survive,
WHAT?
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>>16977559
i can see it
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>>16977583
Well what do you think happened to the space colonies? I know in the show the nanos seemed to turn tech into weird sand stuff, so if that was to happen to a cylinder colony everyone in them would find themselves in the vacuum of space, but what about the non-cylinder colonies?
>>
>>16977625
Don't have the image but in Turn A most if not all the cylinder colonies fucked off outside the solar system before the Turn A pulled armageddon.
>>
>>16977361

Tomino doesn't care about Gundam's meta-timeline and their should you. The amount of effort your are spending trying to make sense of this would be much, much better spent on purchasing more gunpla. You don't even have to build them, you can let them sit in boxes for all I care. Just buy more gunpla.
>>
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>>16977559
people always comparing the Jahannam as zaku descendant when actually they look closer to zoloat
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>>16977524
The technology of an extra-solar race of humanity descended from some ancient space colonization project.
>>
>>16977409
>Guess his brain is getting foggy

He legitimately forgot the main gimmick of the G-arcane is that it can transform until it was too late into production to do anything with it.
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>>16977365
Tomino said it and the rest of the studio gave him this look.
He went senile.
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noredo was related to the space pope and yet she was supposedly a kuntala right? I think the point is that while it was a terrible moment in history, humanity has moved on, but people like luin are unable to let go, they blame their shortcomings on it and use it as justification for creating conflict. I mean Luin internalised this entire rivalry with bellri who was completely unaware that his friend now believed that he would become a dictator and oppress the kuntala people once more.
>>
>>16977625
I never understood this if the Turn A blasted anything from Earth to Jupiter how did stuff on the moon survive unharmed and those two Space Stations Mistletoe and Zacktraeger
>>
>>16977910
>that he would become a dictator and oppress the kuntala people once more.
>implying that this isnt right
The Dark History has to happen after all
>>
>>16977887
But Tomino went with the idea from the start, and the studio realized it by themselves the more they worked on the show

So yes, G-Reco does take place after Turn A, Sunrise is as always full of retards
>>
>>16977361
The inhabitants of earth in CC don't have records of anything because of the Moonlight Butterfly. Going by Tomino's word and assuming that G-Reco is five hundred years after Turn A, the starvation event that caused the Kuntala thing was probably the immediate aftermath of the Moonlight Butterfly. The only earth civilizations Turn A really deals with are Ameria and Adeska. The Kuntala thing could have happened in Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, or South America and the people we saw on the east coast of North America wouldn't know about it at all.
>>
>>16977524
According to the fluff, the Turn X was built by a group of human newtypes who left the Earth Sphere thousands of years ago. It was found drifting just inside Pluto's orbit and brought back to earth. The Turn A was built by reverse engineering the Turn X's systems because the people of the Earth Sphere feared invasion by whoever built the Turn X. Debate over whether the spacenoids or earthnoids should have control of these new monstrously powerful mobile suits led to a war in which each side had one of the Turn units, during which the Turn X was defeated and the Turn A glassed the entire earth.

There is absolutely no room in this chain of events for the G-Lucifer.
>>
>>16978126
>assuming that G-Reco is five hundred years after Turn A, the starvation event that caused the Kuntala thing was probably the immediate aftermath of the Moonlight Butterfly
Turn A the series takes place over 2000 years after the moonlight butterfly.
>>
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>>16977700
i can see it
>>
>>16977916
In THEORY it could reach all the way to Jupiter

In the official story it only wrecked the urf
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>>16978178
I'm fully aware of that. G-Reco also states that the Kuntala situation was a loooooooooooooooooong time ago.
>>
>>16978205
>In THEORY
In one of the two (non-Tomino) novelizations for Turn A it's stated to have reached Jupiter, basically as an ass-pull to cover up for the fact that the anime never mentions what happened to the Jupiter colonies.
>>
>>16977516
Could it not just be Raraiya stopping it after 2secs?
>>
>>16977361
>However G-Reco takes place after Turn A.
Wrong
>>
>>16977931
>But Tomino went with the idea from the start

No he fucking didn't
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>>16977361
Formerly a lower-class people, the term "Kuntala" is still considered a derogatory insult [1]. The Kuntala were eaten as a "substitute food" during the food crisis that occurred in the closing stages of the Universal Century

The Kuntala were eaten as a "substitute food"
>>
>>16978474
To be fair the Jupiter colonies only exist in spin-offs. The only thing shown in the animated canon are research stations and He3 mining facilities.
>>
>>16977361
nonexistent race profiling
like blacks and jews
>>
>>16977492
>Can you people be less stupid?
Can you be less stupid? Anyone paying attention can tell that Greco comes right after UC and Turn A some time after that. Tomino either misspoke or was just senile when he said that Turn A came before Greco. Moonlight Butterfly does not have to originate with the Turns. It could have easily been a technology created a long time ago and then salvaged by the civilization leading up to Correct Century.
and actually like >>16978135 said Moonlight Butterfly really was a salvaged technology.
>>
>>16978648
>>16978648
>>16978648

Did you not see the MS that literally had a shitty version of MB?
Tomino confirmed it
>>
The overall technology of RC is way more advanced than CC AND IT WAS barred by ag-tech tabboo.

What else? fucking lagu was older than most humans WITHOUT CRIOGENICS

>"B-but but muh jaburo mobile suits"

Easily explained: it was just another mountain cycle (we don't know how many there was, even turn X was discovered in the moon), there could be lots of different ones (like Black Devil (psycho gundam) from Fukui Turn A novel).

The mountain cycle was discovered, they could just not give a fuck about those suits and let there to rot, or they could ignore it because the ag-tech tabboo in RC.

>"buh buh but where is the moon race"
Gone, or just simply not show. We barely see anything from Ameria, the colonist could be there, they are not essencial to be shown in g-reco.

So we have more evidences showing that turn a came before than after, fucking hell. G-Lucifer was made by g-it labs, that the whole stick was to study previous technology to use today, and not to make newer ones.
>>
>>16978914

> AND IT WAS barred by ag-tech tabboo.

Technology was at a standstill on the Moon as well; which was part of Gym's beef with Dianna. There's even a social taboo against developing technology according to him l if I recall.

> Easily explained: it was just another mountain cycle

That's not an explanation, because mountain cycles are (a) closed systems and (b) buried underground with (c) maintained military technology. Jaburo has none of those elements. It's wide open with a structured frame that makes it obvious that it's been that way for a long time, the suits in there are just left lying around like they were abandoned with pre-existing damage (torn off arms) that isn't just due to age and they're surrounded by other infrastructure such as roads and walls that signal that it isn't just natural wear of soil that exposed them after they were buried.
>>
>>16977931
Tomino may be the creator of the franchise and this series, but Sunrise are the owners of the IP, like it or not, the final word of the matter is theirs.
>>
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>>16977361
>However G-Reco takes place after Turn A.
Who cares about this nerd shit? Greco could take place whenever, it really doesn't matter and clearly not what Tomino was all that concerned with. Something like the UC happened, at some point there was a war that lead to the kuntala. That is all you really need to know. We can all bullshit why it could and couldn't take place here or there but what would be the point? If Tomino came out tomorrow with an exact explanation of when it took place that wouldn't change any of my thoughts on the show.

I dunno I just find how much people focus on timeline stuff pointless, same with when people go over the made up specs of suits. That shit didn't matter to the writers when they made it. Unless the show is a direct sequel "time" and usually "war" just happened. Thinking harder about it than that misses the point. This whole Gundam timeline is a joke which works on millions of years pass between radically different earths who just sort of ignore each other when we want them to. Tomino changed his mind on where it happened cause he wanted the show to be a bright future, not cause he went hmmm this timeline would work much better like this.
>>
>>16979079
>Tomino changed his mind on where it happened cause he wanted the show to be a bright future, not cause he went hmmm this timeline would work much better like this.

OP here, I think that's a fair point. You actually backed up your argument with a thematic reading, rather than relying on spergy lore/tech inconsistencies like most dumbasses on /m/. Well done!
>>
>>16977910
Kuntala is the RC (((Them)))
>>
RC after CC doesn't even match up with time frames stated in the shows themselves.
There are small refrences to Turn A like Ameria and the Moonlight Butterfly but I genuinely think Tomino was trying to disregard Turn A and replace it entirely, with how much he seems to despise his own past works.
Of course in the end he was apparently unsatisfied with G-reco anyways, so...

All official information I have seen places RC before CC. I don't think some interview really usurps printed information.
>>
>>16978876
>a shitty version of MB?
Doesn't this naturally read as being an early version of the MB? I never understood why people assumed the opposite. Even in utility it seemed purely cosmetic in the show.
>>
>>16978126
>Tomino's word and assuming that G-Reco is five hundred years after Turn A
He also said G-reco was about 1000 years after UC.
Which means Turn A is 500 years after UC. Which contradicts times stated in Turn A itself.
>>
>>16979161
>>16978126
Like Tomino even remembers what they said in Turn A, the amount of time probably changed multiple time in production and in any Turn A material he made after. He most likely just meant a really long time and threw out 500 years cause that seems like a long time.
>>
>>16977365
He’a senile or just fucking with people as he likes to do.

In any case official Sunrise word which is higher than him says it’s directly after UC so there.
>>
>>16978135
Turn X shinig finger was based on shining’s

Moonlight butterfly was based on g lucifer’s

Dumbass
>>
Tomino rewrites so much shit anything he says shouldn't be taken at face value now.
>>
>>16977539

He tells people to make their own minds up at the end of the panel; so yea, while he might not have been deliberately fucking with people, he obviously doesn't care too much about it himself.

>>16977550

There's translated info from a Turn-A data book released around 2001 or 2002 that includes backstory about an orbital elevator that would eventually fall a la the "Tree of Ades" that sounds a lot like the elevator in G-Reco if I recall. I don't even remember all the details, but the translation was being done on that part around the time G-Reco was coming out so it sounded spookily similar. It makes it seem like Tomino probably took the setting info for Turn A as a backstory and built out from there and that while he might have at one point planned to make it a direct prequel he eventually dropped that idea. Which I imagine is because ending it with the destruction of the space elevator was probably just too dark for the kind of mindset he seems to go in to anime with these days.

>>16977553

The Venutians knew about Kuntala too.

>>16977632

Here. It's a quick scene that takes place in the midst of all the Black History exposition, so most people tend to forget it even existed.

>>16977931

Maybe a couple of people did, but only one guy ever talked about it besides Tomino so saying the whole studio did is a stretch at best.

>>16978135

There is always room for prototypes. Especially if those prototypes don't have nearly as much power. The G-Lucifer might have a full blown Moonlight Butterfly, but what we see in the show isn't incompatible with the idea it was just a baby one that couldn't do much aside from create flashy wings.
>>
>>16978815

I don't think anything Jovian has ever appeared in animation. A few people are mentioned to have been there, and the Jupitirus is a Jovian ship but that's about it that I recall.

>>16979148

This is my reading personally. Turn A is my favorite Gundam show, but regardless of whether it was Tomino's intention I think it's best to just act like G-Reco quietly retconned Turn A since the order of events doesn't make a lot of sense regardless of which you put first or second, the two shows share a good few themes and ideas and G-Reco acts as a new, happy final history point for the franchise even if it replaces Turn A.

>>16979347

Turn X's shining finger has very little in common with Shining's.

Also; here's the webm I meant to post (hopefully).
>>
>>16979969
Maybe it was a different elevator...? It might've been built in the same way as 00's ( large metal structure rather than 4 cables *4 )
>>
>>16979995
>The Capital Tower is a space elevator left over from the Universal Century. There are 144 nuts that make up Capital Tower.
>>
>>16980778
Really? Surely there could've been a space elevator before Capital Tower and this one being post Turn A...
>>
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I've always considered the G-Lucifer to be the strongest evidence G-Reco takes place after Turn A. MB can't be the ultimate weapon if G-Self with perfect backpack would probably win.
>>
>>16982956
But isn't the G-Lucifer's MB imperfect? Which would give mean it's technology was improved to create the Turn A's MB?
>>
>>16977365
He probably doesn't care much about continuity to begin with, and when you're dealing with a show like Turn A that pretty much tosses the concept of chronology out the window in favor of its message, he's not going to care about making the plot lead together perfectly.
>>
>>16982956

What makes you think the G-Self with Perfect Pack would beat it?
>>
>>16977409
Even Macross' Shoji Kawamori admits he doesn't remember every detail. Luckily they hire a literature advisor to go over the lore
>>
>>16982970
>But isn't the G-Lucifer's MB imperfect?
There's no particular reason to believe that.

Whatever Tomino's intent was, he didn't write every word or draw every frame in the show and it wasn't something he specifically told the entire staff so everything wasn't created from that perspective. Which tells you he didn't think the timeline was that important anyways, Tomino just doesn't want to get hung up in Gundam's past so he just sets dates arbitrarily far into the future and builds on everything that's been done already.
>>
>>16983045
This, stop trying to look for in-universe explanations for something like this. It's easily the stupidest pitfall in fiction to get hung up on details that were never consistent to begin with.
>>
>>16983124
G-Self has full body photon batteries ( and can absorb particles through the glowing parts )
G-Arcane only has photon batteries in the head
G-Lucifer is much like the G-Arcane
>>
>>16983124
Antimatter torpedos and stasis beam. And the G-Self was low on battery because it fought for a few days IIRC and did the re-entry.
>>
>>16986730

Neither of those are going to have any real effect on a self perpetuating cloud of nanomachines that can cover a diameter of miles in seconds. Blowing a hole in it would be like blowing a hole in any other cloud; it'll just refill effectively instantly. Grabbing it with a stasis beam would be even more useless, since all you'll be grabbing is a relatively thin stream of nanomachines and the rest will be fine. If the nanomachines are too small to set either off then it's even less effective, since the Moonlight Butterfly can just ignore them to hit the G-Self. Which it could probably do, since it ate plasma, nuclear energy and I-fields instantly during the show.
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>>16977361
Noredo Nug was a Kuntala too

would love to eat her out
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>>16987443
Can't the G-Self just shutdown your machine or mess up the electromagnets inside via something similar to pic?
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>>16987482
and
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>>16987482

I suppose you could assume that the G-Self is capable of something similar, but the G-Lucifer could be too since that seems to mostly depend on spinning the beam saber close to the opponent. The G-Self does have a different EMP style trick, where it fires off a "shadow" in it's own shape that messes with the electronics of anything it hits and that seems far less generic; both are very short range though. The shadow thing may only he usable with the Tricky Pack and in the Perfect Pack too.
>>
>>16987503

> The shadow thing may only he usable with the Tricky Pack and in the Perfect Pack too.

And not the Perfect Pack even.
>>
>>16987504
That's part of the Tractor Beam function iirc.
>>
>>16977365
If you read the interview in question, it's pretty apparent he doesn't give a fuck about the autistic Gundam time line that is just mostly the fans filling the blanks, and he only wished that the autism produced a time line where G-Reco is Gundam's happy end.
>>
>>16987443
It didnt eat nuclear energy. The i-field in the Turn-A's shield did. He specifically puts it up to block the fallout. And it didn't eat i-fields. the i-fields can block physical objects but can be easily overpowered since its stistilstistill just an i-field. that said the soriel's i-field beam was holding the MLB back
>>
>>16987597

> The i-field in the Turn-A's shield did. He specifically puts it up to block the fallout.

That doesnt explain why neither Gym or Harry know what's happening or what the shields are despite both of them knowing about I-fields. Nor does it explain the rainbow colored field raising from the blocking shield and which has never been displayed with an I-field before, including in Turn A itself.

> And it didn't eat i-fields. the i-fields can block physical objects but can be easily overpowered since its stistilstistill just an i-field.

Gym literally says "This is the Moonlight Butterfly", just before a Moonlight Butterfly attack instantly negates five separate I-fields. If it didn't eat them, then the end result is no different since it went through them like they weren't there.

> that said the soriel's i-field beam was holding the MLB back

Dianna also says that it might only work for a few seconds and that's a capital ship class one likely to be far stronger than an individual suit can mount.





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