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/BRT/: Bike Racing and Training, 'Attack Off The Front' edition

Previous thread (currently on auto-sage): >>1041744

IN THIS THREAD, we discuss:
* Training for bike racing (road, MTB, track)
* Bike racing tactics and strategy
* Bike handling skills relating to racing (pacelining, maneuvering within the pack, blocking, when to attack, etc)
* Your races
* Pro races
* Equipment choices (including power meters, heart rate monitors, etc)
* Anything and everything relating to bicycle racing and training

When discussing power, post W/kg (watts per kilogram), not just watts.

If you're new to bike racing and need to get started, you can start with The Cyclists Training Bible (aka CTB); there's a copy of 3rd Edition online you can peruse:
http://www.lronman.ru/docs/CyclistBible3.pdf (please buy a copy if you like it).

If you're interested in Power Meters for your bike, here's a good article that covers most of the choices available on the market:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/power-meters-buyers-guide2016-edition.html

If you're interested in doing some reading on basic race tactics and strategy, you can check out the following two books:
"Racing Tactics for Cyclists" by Thomas Prehn
"Reading the Race" by Jamie Smith and Chris Horner

Ask questions, and share your knowledge, expertise, and experience; everyone interested in training to be a better cyclist are welcome.
>>
As a novice I have a little to contribute to these threads but love lurking in them
>>
>tfw no indoor trainer and outside weather is shit so dont get enough training done
>>
>>1051731
i have a turbo and I live in a dorm so I'm super self conscious about the noise (they're SUPER loud above like 150 watts) and it stresses me out

Ive ridden outside on wet shitty roads all week just to avoid it as much as possible. i'm tired of cleaning my bike though, that also sucks in dorms
>>
>>1051741
I have the same problem with being tired of cleaning my bike. Pretty much every ride for the past 4 months has left me with a dirty bike
>>
>>1051730
Not a problem, you're welcome here, feel free to ask questions.

>>1051731
Check Craigslist. Lots of people buy trainers, try them for a while, decide they don't like them, and sell them for relatively cheap.

>>1051741
There are foam mats you can get to put under your trainer that will dampen quite a bit of the noise (at least that's generated via vibration). Also does your rear tire have lots of tread? Try getting a cheap slick tire to put on it. They even make special tires for use with trainers, that have a literally flat tread.
>>
>>1051751
Do you live in California like I do? I completely understand. Even with strap-on fenders, after riding 3-4 hours in constant rain, the bike is still a complete horror show by the time I get home, and the next day I have to spend at least an hour cleaning it up and lubing things before riding it again. A couple weeks ago I replaced brake pads. Two rides later the rear are worn down to the point where I'll have to replace them again, because of grit that got in them. Almost makes me wish I had disc brakes.
>>
>>1051755
I live in Denmark, so it has also been at around freezing temperatures until last week.
At least I did the festive 500
>>
Got dropped so hard on a group ride today that I had an existential assessment when I backtracked back home. It was 25 mph average for the first 25 miles and 1,600 feet of climbing, completely savage
>>
>>1051751
It really annoys me, especially because I don't always have the means to do a thorough cleaning so I'm sure I'm slowly degrading all my components
>>1051752
It's a turbo trainer so there's a cassette on the trainer. No rear wheel involved. There's just a super loud fan that it uses, obviously. I put my duvet/comforter up against it and that dulls the noise a bit but it's still pretty loud for dorms. I try to keep it to an hour when I'm inside.
>>
>>1051777
sounds fun desu, where was this? 1600 feet over 25 mi isn't that bad
>>
>>1051845
the Atlanta Airport ride, 81 miles of rolling hills and a really stout group of 5+ strong cyclists
>>
>>1051703
I hate people. But everything around me is human. I can't even look at a wall or my own body without being reminded of humans. I'm suffocating in a smog of humanity. I wish I was born a wild animal. I wish I could live in the wild and never see another human again.
>>
>>1051897
dammit dave, don't false flag me

but you got dropped? how? did you crash?
>>
>>1052078
Yes this is Dave

Until yesterday I have been off the bike for the past two weeks; a combination of overtraining, replacing certain old parts far too late, making too many unchecked fit adjustments and an inflammatory illness BTFO'd my knees, leading me to two weeks of non-activity and stress-induced binge eating. My knees are still proper fucked, though I am taking prescription NSAID's and have refitted everything on the bike once again (saddle fore/aft and height, cleat float and angle) to correction.

As far as that ride was concerned, even in prime uninjured form I likely would have struggled with their pace- I ended up setting my all-time highest 20 minute max peak power (and a top 5 in pretty much every other peak average power category), and though I was among the smallest of the bunch they where producing around about my FTP for sustained timespans. It of course didn't help that I did 30 intense miles prior to the ride, and showed up to the ride with one water bottle and one gel, so I deservedly got rekt
>>
>>1052049
VeganRider is that you?
>>
>>1052120
You're the guy with the BMC right?
>>
>>1052122
yes why?
>>
First Threshold intervals of 2017. Feels good, man. xD
>>
>>1051762
where in Denmark mate? im an Aarhus guy here, myself
>>
>>1052467
Copenhagen. Do you ride in a club?
>>
>really need a rest day
>its a beautiful day for a ride
>really wanna go out and have some fun

these feels are hard to cope with
>>
>>1052632


bit of a cross post, but relevant for you all. opinions on grabbing a cylocross bike for entry level road racing? Am I screwing myself over or is it going to matter very little if at all? Not opposed to looking into cylocross additionally
>>
>>1052635
Whoops! Cyclocross**
>>
>>1052635
If you want to actually race then dont get a cross bike.
If you just want to train and ride then sure get it and put on some slicks
>>
who /6w/kgforanhour/ here
>>
>>1052676
No one, it's a slow biking board on an Arabian lamp enthusiast website
>>
>>1052676
Likely not you. Anyone who is *legitimately* 6W/kg at Threshold (for a an hour) is likely to be a Cat-1 Pro people might have heard of -- and not at all likely to be infesting 4chan/n/. Keep dreaming, though -- and training. Never know, you might win a race someday.
>>
>>1051703
How do I climb better?
I enjoy it, I don't know how to explain it, it just feels so triumphant to reach the peak and realize how far you've gone and that you beat the mountain.
But I don't know how to do that faster than 'the other guys'. I don't just want to conquer the mountain I want to be the one to bring it down.
>>
>>1052810
Lose fat. If you're tall and heavy your only solution is to become half a hungry skeleton with powerful legs.
>>
>>1052810
Train for 20 years
>>
>>1052676
I keep trying. I felt better for a few days, burying my head in the sand and deluding myself into thinking I have a future of some kind. Its amazing how quickly the mood can change when the immediate feelings of worthlessness and no hope are removed. I even meditated the past few days and felt a lot better inside. But you can't hide for long. It comes back stronger. Bottom line - No Future. Just fucking trapped. Don't want to be NEET, don't want to be a fucking wageslave. Want independence so fucking badly, don't want to leave the house. Its catch 22 all the way
>>
>>1052827
>If you're tall
We talking 'tall' or '5'10" 4ever a manlet' meme tall?
>>
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>>1052914
This guy is 1.85 m. Look at what he had to become.
>>
>>1052827
me irl, I'm 6' 1.5" and my race weight is like 69 kg... hopefully 68 if I have some discipline but I like eating
>>1052926
that's not even that bad, you faggots always whine about being a skelly but it looks worse than it is
t. skelly
>>
>>1052779
>>1052695
>t. leglets
also
>cat 1
lol
>>
>>1052944
Oh fuck you. It's just as likely you don't even own a bike as it is you generate that much power for an hour.

Want to prove it? Post:
>Power record from a ride at 6W/kg for 60 minutes
>Your race license (NOT redacted)
>Your race record for 2016
>Your government-issued photo ID card, to verify all the above

..oh, you're not willing to post all that? Then fuck off. Trolling belongs that way -----> >>>/b/
>>
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>>1053034
if we can't have fun in this thread, there's no point. If you want to be all anal and serious, go to /r/velo

Bike racing is already all discipline and a lot of pain. I'm gonna make a troll post once in a while. It's fun after doing a day of 8x5 or some shit
>>
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>tfw not racing until at least late April
>>
>>1053034
>>1053052 (me)
also, I was serious about the Cat 1 thing. if you're doing 6 w/kg for an hour, you're a world tour cyclist with some pro wins. Not a fucking cat 1 lol.
>>
>>1052926
>>1052942
cyclists are so fuckin weird about their weight, I live in an area where for at least 350 miles in all directions the longest climb is around 6-8 minutes and there are a lot of people I ride/race with/against who keep their weight ludicrously low. I'm not talking 6'1 and 69kg I'm meaning 6'3 and 64kg, and 5'6 and literally 50kg. The kicker is they aren't powerful enough in the sub 15 min range so they're actually hurting themselves on the terrain around here.
>>
>>1053052
>he doesn't enjoy his training
Maybe you need to find something different to do with your time, then.
>>
>>1053079
Kek, i don't even know how they get that light at 6'3". Most pros that height are slim but not stupid thin like that... they realize it's not sustainable/healthy.

"Worst" ones I can think of are probably damien howson or illnur zakarin... both around 6'1"-6'2" and i'm fairly sure they're 67-68 kg. So not even that bad. Froome at race weight is about the same I believe... but these guys are professionals

>>1053090
Oh fuck off, it can be tough some days, especially being on the trainer so much. I wouldn't do it if I didn't ultimately enjoy it, retard
>>
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>tfw decided to go all out for the first time since a few months
>only end up with 500watts as 1 minute power

My legs gave out just before the top so I think I could make it 550-600 with some discipline. But the fact that I could barely hold 250 watts for 10 minutes makes things look dire. I really need to get on it if I want to be in good shape when the nice weather arrives.
>>
>go to LBS because my pedal stripped my crankarm and I don't have the facilities to replace or fix that shit at the moment, nor do I even have the part
>they throw on a 105 Crankset and new BB
>Old crankset was 172.5mm
>they threw on a 170 without even saying anything about it
>already had a bikefit with 172.5

How fucked am I and can I raise a shitstorm and get my money back fully or at least partially, lads?
>>
>>1053079
They've fallen for the weight weenie meme. I live in a similar place and we also have literal skeletons on bikes.
>>
>>1053151
the most you can get is them to remove the crankset and give you back your old one, but crank length doesn't matter, so shut up and ride.
>>
>>1053177
I don't like being misled, laddo.
They said they had a replacement. They didn't say it wasn't the same crank length.
>>
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>>1053178
youve got a strong case desu, bike shop made a dumb mistake. They can tell you to fuck off, but that would mean theyre a shit bike shop. Depends on how many bike shops youve got near you, some bike shops can afford to be cunts.
>>
>>1053177
>crank length doesn't matter

lolwut
>>
>>1053151
My experience is 9 out of 10 times bike shop mechanics do at least one stupid thing. You pretty much have to sit on them and make them do things correctly. Go back and get them to make it right.

>>1053177
>crank length doesn't matter
I guess that's true if you're a filthy casual who never really works hard, but if his bike is fitted for a 172.5 crank length and they put a 170 on it, it screws up his fit.
>>
>>1052926
I don't buy it. I have 1.69 pounds per inch and he's got 2.15 pounds per inch. I can't compare fitness because I'm a runner and I can't afford the equipment he's given, but I find the discrepancy puzzling because he's lauded as incredibly lightweight...
>>
>>1053151
You asked for a replacement, not a direct replacement.

You ASSUMED, and now you're angry?

Why wouldnt you ask what part they are installing on your bike?
>>
>>1053296
Fits are so bullshit. Having worked at multiple LBS's, shops do their fit wayyyy differently. Its all preference. Literally you are paying $200+ for someone to tell you whats comfortable. Its the easiest money a shop can make. Their is no "fitting standard"
>>
im 70.3 kg AFTER doing a pretty long ride. my race season isn't for a month or so, is it reasonable to have my race weight be 69 or even 68 kg?

How do I eat after a ride that I burned 3000+ calories on that helps me recover but not gain weight? Even if I have a decent post ride meal I always feel hungry like an hour or so before bed and it sucks.

I know weight loss is burn more calories than you take in, but I'm just conflicted as to how to do it without losing strength or FTP.
>>
>>1053435
I find tuna is a good before-bed snack: protein and fat that will build muscle overnight.

In general, be sure to get a lot of protein when doing a calorie deficit. You can keep a higher percentage of muscle by eating at 0.7g protein per lb of body weight (that is also a good general ratio for endurance athletes)
>>
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>>1053413
Just ran a 16:25 5k
>>
Is it worth getting a power meter if you're a filthy casual? I'm kind of curious to see the numbers but they all look expensive as fuck and hard to install
>>
Anyone race bikes that can compare? Just curious btw idc if your slower :-)
>>
>>1053495
They're fun. Can get a 4iiii for $400 and pay $15 to have it installed. $15 for Training and Racing with a Power Meter and then you're golden.

If you wanna start at a way lower price point, try HR training and get a Wahoo TICKR for $50.
>>
>>1053432
Guess what? You're the epitome of what I hate about bike shops. You think you know everything when you really don't.
>bike fit is bullshit
Tell that to people who fuck up their joints or get repetitive motion injuries that plague them with pain for years. Tell that to anyone who owns a TT/Triathlon bike and actually does TTs and Triathlons.

An improperly fitted bike can cause injury to any rider, even a purely recreational rider. PERIOD. Especially people who train and race.
At the VERY LEAST an improperly fitted bike can waste the riders' power; who needs that?

Consider keeping your opinions to yourself when it could cause someone to develop a chronic injury, or otherwise sabotage their efforts.
>>
>>1053495
A power meter is a training tool. Without the proper testing to determine what your training zones are (Recovery, Endurance, Tempo, Threshold, etc) the wattage displayed means nothing. Unless you plan on doing specific training over the course of the year that addresses your specific weaknesses, and re-test every month or two, and expect to track your progress, it's a pointlessly expensive tool that won't really benefit you. I'd recommend a heart rate monitor, if you just want to 'ride faster' -- but you'll still have to do testing to make the heart rate numbers mean anything. If you're not willing to do that, then a heart rate monitor is likewise wasted money.

What you need to ask yourself is: Do you have any specific goals? If the answer is 'no', then save your money for something that will actually benefit you. If on the other hand you have specific goals as a cyclist you're willing to commit to attaining, then that's another conversation entirely.

>>1053507
So-called 'power meters' that don't directly measure torque are, IN MY OPINION, worthless wastes of money.
>>
>>1053491
That's nice.

Now tell us what your 40km time is on a bike. xD
>>
>>1053491
>>1053506
Forgot to quote v:
>>1053505
PAYING for the most invaluable knowledge one can have pertaining to a bicycle is folly. You're left with an incomplete picture of the decisions
>>1053512
?
This time was recorded on a track and I had people to draft with
I know how to pace myself on a track
It's perfectly flat
There isn't a velodrome near me
I'm interested in hearing from anyone who races in UCI sanctioned events not kids
>>
>>1053507
>>1053511
ok, thanks for the explanation. i admire you racers, you guys have a lot of discipline
>>
>>1053511
4iiii is a left-only crank arm system? DCRainmaker recommends it just as highly as the Stages, and you can later add power to the drive-side arm to make it dual-sided.

The strain gauges measure torque on the crank arm, unless you're suggesting only bottom bracket meters are valid?
>>
>>1053521
not sure what he means either, maybe he thinks the TICKR is one of those pseudo-powermeters
>>
>>1053510
Yes improper bike fit can cause problems. However paying someone for a bike fit is largely a meme. People have different bodies and you can't just do the same fit for everyone after taking their measurements.

The way to do a bike fit is to put your bike on a trainer and fiddle with different adjustments until it's comfy and you're putting out your normal power. No one other than you can tell you when the bike is comfortable. So why would you pay someone hundreds for that?

>TT/trifag bikefits
Yes, if you actually have access to a wind tunnel then a professional fit is useful. If you can't get into a wind tunnel then your best bet is to just set it up so you're comfy on the bike.
>>
>>1053558
No, no, and no. That's all bad advice, I can't disagree more on everything you have to say here, and really, honestly, seriously, you should not be giving advice to anyone on this subject, especially someone who is training and racing. Do what you want to your own bike and body and leave everyone else out of it.
>>
>>1053563
Yes be a good goy and give your money to the bike fit Jew. Even better if you go to multiple ones and they all give you a different fit that's supposed to be perfect.

Making sure your bike fits properly is important. Paying someone to do it for you is largely snake oil.
>>
>>1053435
If you burn 3,000kcal on a ride (I'm hoping you're using a powermeter to calculate that shit) eat 3700 or 4000 for the day total and you'll have a small deficit.


You shouldn't lose FTP unless you're cutting your kcals ridiculously low lol because it's a lung/heart and blood thing and not really your leg muscles needing to work hard. I mean bodybuilders cut hard as fuck, like 1500-2000kcal a day and don't lose strength so you can do it e z with cardio. Obviously vo2 max efforts would fuckin suck balls but not the end of the world
>>
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Dick breaks, not even once, not even twice
>>
>>1053588
I am using a powermeter yes

That's true, I forgot about bodybuilders. Thanks
>>
>>1053596
>implying this wouldnt happen with a chainring either

Lmaoing
>>
>>1053566
>resorts to insults and memes
>the final acts of the defeated
Do you even ride?
>>
>>1053435
>>1053588
>>1053621
If you're trying to get down to race weight, and you're still in Base weeks, then that's fine. Limit carbs to no more than 40% of your total daily calories, institute a modest cut in overall daily calories (about 500kcal/day or so), and for rides of 2 hours or less, that are not Tempo or above, don't take anything other than water in your bottles (if you try to ride long at Tempo, or do Threshold work, without some carbs in your bottles, you're sabotaging yourself big time). Bodyfat will almost literally fly off you.

If you are in Build weeks: DO NOT CUT CALORIES. You're sabotaging yourself if you do. Weightloss prior to race season is something that should be done in pre-Base and Base weeks only. Truth be told you'll lose a little anyway duing post-Base weeks, but you should not be cutting unless you want to fuck up your training.

After long rides and hard rides you should eat enough to recover well, otherwise you're not going to get the full benefit of your training.
>>
>>1053596

>implying that the investigation didn't blame a broken guardrail for the damage

>discs in the clear again.
>>
>>1053672
The main problem I see with disc brakes is wheelsets. If you've already got a bunch of money invested in non-disc wheelsets, then how can you justify getting a bike that's got disc brakes, especially if you race?
>>
>>1053676
I think something that gets missed in the ~disc brake debate~ is that no one is forcing you to drop everything and switch to discs right away. Road disc options are still emerging, so your next bike can have discs (if you want). If you have multiple carbon rim-brake wheelsets, then it probably doesn't make sense to buy a disc bike until you've worn through your existing wheel collection.
>>
post your best times in track foot races pls
and what the fastest category of races you participate in on a bicycle (i.e. pro cat 1 cat 2 cat 3 cat 4 cat 5 cat 6)
>>
>>1053622
It really wouldn't. A chainring doesn't spin nowhere near as fast as a brake disc does. And a chainring stops spinning on a crash, while a wheel keeps on spinning.
>>
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>>1053683
fuck off dude, no one cares about foot racing here

seriously GTFO
>>
>>1053730
I do but I'm a tri geek.
>>
>>1053683
This really isn't a triathlon thread, except for the bike portion, and it certainly isn't a 'track foot race' thread, this isn't even the right board for that. I'd suggest >>>/fit/ or >>>/asp/ for that sort of thing.
>>
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>Post in thread asking bicycle racers a question
>Question them about how they perform in a comparable sport that doesn't cost thousands of USD to try out
>Said sport taxes your legs and your lungs
>Get yelled at for being unrelated to the topic
I get why the trainfags and planefags want you to move to the boards you just linked me
>>
>>1053799
>post question unrelated to the thread
>get yelled at
Wow such meanies
>>
>>1053802
>>>1053799 (You)
>>post question unrelated to the thread
>>get yelled at
>Wow such meanies
It's completely related to the thread. If I went asking cross country skiers how fast they ran the 100m in the very same thread we're posting in it'd be offtopic
>>
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I figure cyclists are mostly weak cunts... But I thought I'd ask some self described racers to at least have a day before I completely dismiss the sport as some fetishistic masochism put on for the sake of European traditions and the pleasure of old men. I can't even get a straight answer from you blokes... Man my day REALLY could be better spent not looking at bait on a Nipponese fishing community...I guess you'll still have your bicycles by the time 99% of ure population is gone brown :(
>>
>>1052676
>>1052695
There are a fair number of active cat 1's on r/velo, there must be a few on 4chan
>>
>>1053803
no it's not, pls leave, you just want to brag anyway so fuck right off
>>1053807
idk what this is, some sort of /pol/-trainfag hybrid?
>>1053811
>>1052779
STOP THIS MEME. Cat 1s are not 6 w/kg for an hour. That is World Tour race winning power. Speaking of /r/velo, some cat 1 fag got second at a P/1 race with a self-proclaimed 4.4 w/kg or something.

Even cat 1 climbers would not have 6 w/kg as their FTP. I'd wager the best cat 1s (that should probably be pro?) are in the area of 5.2-5.3 w/kg for an hour.
>>
How did you all do this race weekend?

highlight was coming 7th overall in the open ITT where I posted a faster time than a few Pro 1/2's almost beating the top B time, although to be fair, I'm sure most people did not put in serious efforts since few people care about time trials. Getting upgraded from collegiate C to B now, time to get rekt
>>
>>1053879
16:25 is shit lmao
>>
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>>1053992
unless that impresses you...bc you're so much slower?>>1053914
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>>1053993
god damn I quoted the wrong post xD>>1053879
>>
>>1053994
Why do you have fatter in the rear? You aren't putting down power like a motocross bike. Fatter in the front is way more beneficial.

Unless the picture is deceiving me
>>
>>1053914
Dave, pls go
>>1053994
Isaac?
>>
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>>1053996
>>1054000
I was quasi avatarfagging
more weight on the back = need fatter tyre in snow
>>1054000
im anymouse
>>
>>1054019
>quasi avatarfagging
wtf does that mean
>>
>>1054019
>>1053994
this pic is obviously in YYC so it was worth a try
>>
>>1053914
Raced my third ever road race this Saturday, my first open 4/5 race (previous two weekends I've been racing in Collegiate C).

Learned from the mistakes I made the past two races in collegiate and wound up winning which was pretty cool for it being my first open race ever. Course was pretty hilly (1k ft climbing per lap for 3 laps) which really suited me as I am a smaller rider and live and train in the mountains.
>>
>>1053879
>Cat 1s are not 6 w/kg for an hour. That is World Tour race winning power.
Oh STFU, how do you know I wasn't including them in a generalized reference to 'Cat-1's'?
>>
>>1054176
What a stupid post. Any racer who knows anything about high level bike racing is aware of the fact that Cat 1s and World Tour should not be even nearly compared.

World Tour racers >>>> pro-conti >>> power gap >>> conti pro >>>> Cat 1 > Cat 2 >> Cat 3 > cat 4/5
>>
>>1054185
Go back to your trainfoamer threads, trainfag.
>>
>>1054222
Sounds like you should, since you clearly know jackshit about
bike RACING & TRAINING.

Fucking idiot
>>
>tfw my team is starting to get some pretty cool sponsors
>>
>>1054293
Where you live pham
>>
>>1053145
Short term power is the fastest to train
A month of dedicated 1 minute intervals and you will see a massive increase

I did 612w for 54sec at 119lbs up from 540w for 1 min after about 3 weeks of focusing on that
>>
>>1053510
you are retarded

bike fits are a scam

anyone with half a brain knows whats best for them

there is not a lot to adjust, this bullshit of being precise to the MM is bullshit that comes out of not being flexible enough

you are not going to cause catastrophic injury if something like your knee starts hurting, it will be sore for a while, its not a big deal

if you stretch after every ride you will not need a bike fit

but people are lazy and bike shops and bike companies are happy to jump in on this bullshit and make 200 bucks or shill cleat shims, cleats with different float, body mechanic snake oil, etc...
>>
>>1054294
Denmark. We just got some 3 year thing with a cargo bike company, I dont know what it includes but it sounds good
>>
>>1054299
119 lb are you a midget
>>
>>1054299
Also, that's a good 1 min power. Mine's only about 9 w/kg and that's 11. What is one minute power even used for though? Like a establishing a breakaway? Race winning if there's a short sharp climb to the finish (and you're with a group)? Seems pretty specific.
>>
>>1054251
Here's some lovely train threads for you, Sheldon, better hurry, all your friends are waiting for you there!
>>1008054
>>1054153
>>1050078
>>1053923
>>1053689

>>1054300
When are you going to learn, Sheldon? Nobody believes samefagging. Now go play with your trains.
>>
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>>1054359
>Sheldon
>trains
>>
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>>1054364
>>
>>1054302
>racing on cargo bikes just for the sponsorship shekels
The absolute fucking madmen
>>
>>1054299
Things like lactate tolerance reps are great for that. Hurt like hell, but you'll see definite anaerobic gains from it.
>>
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>>1054359
Please leave, you're being a fucking idiot.

If you truly belong in /brt/, then answer these:

What power meter do you think is the most effective? What power meter do you use? What are your 1 min, 5 min and 20 min power numbers?

inb4 begone trainfag
>>
>>1054185
That seems rather exagerated. I'd divide that up by pace of the race/ability rather than "class". Just because someone is considered a wt pro does not make them automatically a better athlete than a domestic pro. See any hc and lower races where all three divsions are present.
>>
>>1054387
Totally legal

Most of the team are either bike messengers or ex-messengers so it kinda makes sense
>>
>>1054462
you first world people have way too much resources.
>>
>>1054392
Who gives a shit mate? Races are longer than 20 minutes usually. Also ideally you've got a gradual falloff rather than being able to hold x number of watts for z time period. It isn't weightlifting m8. Speed is the y variable. Work don't matter if you ain't moving far from it.
Post times you've gotten in footraces btw
>>
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
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>>1054548
hahaha. no less aero though I've heard. looks weird tho
>>1054480
you are a total and complete idiot and no one here runs so FUCK OFF
>>
>>1054548
unironically the strangest component of this bike is the saddle what the fuck
>>
>>1054392
Go play with your trains, Sheldon.
>>
>>1054570
dud you just call me an idiot ofer the internet?
>>
>>1054585
??? i unironically don't understand where you get the idea I like trains
>>
>>1054573
Isn't that just a fairly standard shortnose tri saddle?
>>
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>>1054392
Everything anyone needs to know about me is in pic related.
>"knows nothing about training and racing"
>is Cat-3
>has been training and racing for years
LOL you're rediculous. Leave.
>>
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>>1054392
>he knows nothing about racing
LOL, stop, I'm laughing so hard, I'm going to hurt myself!

Go play with your trains, Sheldon. You're boring me.
>>
>>1054656
Oh and by the way those are just the ones I kept. I must have tossed out at least that many when I moved.

>>1054480
'20 minute power' generally refers to the last 20 minutes of an all-out 30 minute time trial, and the average power from that last 20 minutes represents a fair estimate of your Threshold power, from which you can derive your other training zones. Threshold power is significant because it's about as hard as you can go for an extended period of time (like, for instance, a time trial) and still stay aerobic.
>>
If you fairies are going to be throwing tantrums like these all the time please take it to /asp/
>>
>>1054655
>>1054656
>>1054657
The hell is this? Is this a samefag or something? I honestly don't know who I'm talking to. I'm mostly just tired of this sheldon footrace guy.

If you're going to be autistic, at least be clear about it
>>
>>1054711
>can't tell when someone is samefagging
>it's visibly upset by it
>gets angry at autism because it's unclear
>autistics are generally very concrete in their reasoning
>>
any collegiate lads here? besides dave that is

>>1054749
whatever, you win, this isn't the place for this anyway. i dont really care anymore
>>
>>1054711
>samefagging
ALL THREE of those posts are MINE. I've been training and racing for YEARS, as anyone with eyes can plainly see. You on the other hand are just an idiot. Leave.
>>
>>1054696
It's really all one trainfag who is 'throwing a tantrum' because he hates bike threads, this one in particular, and is all bent out of shape because the mods won't delete it. So he comes in here and is disruptive as possible.

Just ignore him, hide his posts, and lets get back to discussing training and racing.
>>
>>1054829
Who's paying your tuition, you massive faggot?
>>
>>1054835
you clearly suck if you're only a cat 3 lol
>>1054839
i dont race collegiate, but I used to
>>
>>1054841
Yeah, haha, I totally suck, it's true, I'm such a fraud. xD
>>
Who's racing this weekend? First race of the year for me. Got two other guys from my team coming along. Going to see if I can talk them into trying a breakaway.
>>
>>1054854
A breakaway? Naw man that sounds too risky
>>
>>1054854
What state are you from you little bitch?
>>
>>1055054
Such hostility anon. You really need your mouth washed it with some soapy water
>>
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>>1054853
>>1055054
You need to take a chill pill dude
. >>1054854
is not me you fucking retard
>>
Can we restart this thread? This one dude is ruining it for the rest of us.

Anyway, rollers or direct drive for long indoor rides? I prefer direct drives because I can do a bit higher wattage and I can watch TV or whatever fairly easily
>>
Do I get the higher quality bib+jersey combo or do I get the slightly lower quality skinsuit for racing?
Those are my choices because for some reason my team cant order custom versions of the better skinsuits
>>
>>1055109

>>>1054853
>>>1055054 (You)

>he doesn't call people he knows little bitches to motivate them

>>1055101
>>1055109
Such being actually a little bitch, anon, can't take mild trashtalk? Can't answer an honest question?

>>1055140
Just get bibs and jerseys, but make sure the jersey is actually tight. I'm 175lbs or so and I wear a small US/medium EU
>>
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>>1054913
>>1055054
>>1055101
>>1055109
See pic

>>1055111
I don't even know why I bother coming here at all. I'd have more productive conversation talking to a fencepost.
>trolls, trolls everywhere
>shitposting
>outright faggotry
>>
>>1055140
Skinsuits are made specifically for TT's and have padding in the crotch designed specifically for riding a TT bike in the aero position of a TT bike. Also they're a pain if you need to ever take a piss, and even worse if you have to take a dump. If you don't have a TT bike you have no reason to get a skinsuit. Just get a normal set of bib shorts and a jersey.
>>
>>1054711
Hey SHELDON why haven't you posted your race licenses yet? Are you just a total fraud who doesn't even race?
>he got fired from his 'jobs' at bike shops (if you can call being on the business end of a broom a 'job', LOL)
>he doesn't even ride
>>
>>1055202
Skinsuits are starting to become more regular for normal road racing too, the company we get our kit from even markets the skinsuit as "Perfect for criteriums or kermesse racing"

Leaning towards the bib/jersey option tho
>>
>>1055205
This, get both if you can. I got two sets of bibs/jerseys and a long sleeve skinsuit. Ngl I train in skinsuits occasionally cuz they're so comfy
>>
>>1055205
In that case they're called a 'speedsuit', you can tell the difference because they have pockets in the back (and the padding in the crotch is different from a skinsuit).
>>
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Got my sips all ready for race day tomorrow. Which do you guys like better, Rockstar or Monster?
>>
>>1055299
Thats what I thought too but this one is being sold as a skinsuit
>>
>>1055201
>shitposting
and you expected what?
>>
>>1055301
not drinking artificial piss
>>
>>1055348
I think I'd rather find a cycling forum that you have to log in to post, and you have to use your verified real name. All the shitposting because it's anonymous makes it unproductive to spend any time here if you want to have a real conversation about something. Otherwise assholes posting troll 'advice' or just plain bad advice aren't held accountable for being shitty, and people who post good advice and otherwise contribute in a positive way get crapped on by trolls. It's just too negative here overall. 4chan shouldn't even exist anymore, it's pointless.
>>
>>1055579
This thread is usually better, this one douche just messed it up with his cringeworthy shit

/r/velo is also pretty good, not a super fast forum either.
>>
>>1055579
There's a name field that you're welcome to make use of.
Went up a 6 mile climb today. 6% gradient average. Had a lot of fun.
>>
today I rode 80km.
my longest ride this season was maybe 30km.

my knees tell me this was dumb.

the thing is I'm on a new bike and last season I did 80 km regularly with little to no kneepain.

should I have just increased my milage more slowly or is probably somehting wrong with my fit ?
>>
>>1055761
Definitely a fit issue. Experiment with adjusting your saddle height and saddle angle. Increasing volume never helps joint pain. Don't let it get worse
>>
Any tips on dealing with back pain? It feels like "good back pain", I've done a lot of riding recently, and my bike is adjusted properly (as far as everyone tells me), but I think I need to improve my back,

Do you guys do any exercises, or is it just kind of ride more and it'll get better?
>>
>>1056033
Proper stretching and core bodyweight work can definitely help.
>>
>>1056033
Make sure your bike fit good, other than that do what >>1056142 said
>>
is anyone else going to be here??

http://bigshark.com/articles/2017-the-tour-of-st.-louis-bicycle-races-3-18-17-and-3-19-17-pg1289.htm
>>
Do I look at average power or weighted average power?
>>
rest weeks are the besssssssssssssssssssst

so stoked to crush it now
>>
>>1056363
Look at the road ahead of you, faggot
>>1056554
Rest is for the weak, not something you should do for a week
>>
>>1056558
t. literal retard

don't talk about training if you don't know anything about it
>>
>>1056562
Look pal I've ran track and cross country for 8 seasons. Ik a LITTLE about what it's like to go to fast
>>
>>1056558
>implying you can only look at power while riding
>>
Spring has finally sprung, knock on wood. Who /finallygonnarideoutside/ here?

>>1056565
you're a fucking idiot
>>
>>1054392
1 min: 150watt
5 min: 100watt
20 min: 75 watt

new cyclist :)
>>
>>1056789
Do you know any other insults just curious?
Btw you're not riding if your stationary :^]
>>
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>>1056789
>Spring has finally sprung, knock on wood. Who /finallygonnarideoutside/ here?

Disgusting casual, I'm actually mad. Good job. Also sage.
>>
>>1056558
>Rest is for the weak, not something you should do for a week
Let me guess: You're that same faggot who says he worked in a bunch of bike shops (meaning: got FIRED from a bunch of bike shops, LOL), says bike fitting is a meme and you should just ignore what experts say about it, that you should 'just ride as hard as you can all the time' and nevermind actually training. You're probably that trainfoamer faggot who hates bikes and hates this thread more than anything else on /n/ and is trying to sabotage it with disinformation, disruptive offtopic troll posts, and general shitposting.

Do you even OWN a bike? Have you EVER owned a bike? I think it highly unlikely.
Are you confined to a wheelchair or something? You don't even have a BASIC idea of athleticism.

Get the fuck out. Go play with your trains or something, Sheldon. You're not wanted here, you're not impressing anyone, and you're not fooling anyone either. Just fuck off, faggot.

>>1056554
Ignore that faggot. If you don't seem to need rest weeks, then you're not doing enough training to actually NEED rest weeks (and to be clear: refer to them as 'active recovery' weeks, since it's not like you put the bike away for 7 days and sit on your ass, you just ride FEWER hours, and at an easy intensity, to allow your body to recover and supercompensate).

By the end of the third week of a training block you should almost be dreading the though of having to do another week in a row of the same; you should be READY for an easy week.

Keep doing what you're doing.
>>
>>1056565
>runnerfag
>>>/fit/
>>>/fit/
>>>/fit/
>>>/fit/
>>>/fit/
>>
>>1056868
fucking retard, you ever heard of a trainer

>>1056934
Thanks bud, active recovery is correct. Will have about 6.5 hours this week (school etc as well). Went downhill skiing today, that was a nice little cross training day.
>>
>>1056935
I post on /fit/ too lol
>>
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>>1051703
Downloaded the Cyclist's Training Bible. Scanning around and see the strength training section. Holy shit the squat's are a fucking joke. Welcome to snap city bro. I seriously hope no one fucking takes that shit seriously.
>>
>>1057046
I'm pretty conflicted about the whole strength training section in the Bible. The intro and reasons for why to do strength training is pretty good. However everything about actual strength training is largely broscience and bad advice. Also the massive contradiction between the intro and then actual advice. Where in the intro he tells that being stronger makes one faster on bike but then later telling people not to train past his arbitrary strength numbers, which can be reached in one fucking off season to top it off.
>>
>tfw sagan got second place AGAIN
>>
>>1057046
>those instructions
>this is very dangerous!
lol
>>
>>1057017
>fucking retard, you ever heard of a trainer
Ignore that guy, it's just some bike-hating trainfag who comes in here to disrupt things. Read just enough of the thread and of the CTB to say things that are disruptive.
>>
>>1057046
>>1057069
What you and most other cyclists don't understand about strength training for cyclists, is that you're not training to be bodybuilders or powerlifters, you're training to be a cyclist, therefore you don't approach the strength training portion of your annual training like a bodybuilder or powerlifter would. Note the differences:

1. You're doing the majority of your strength training in 10 weeks, with only a one day a week 'maintenance' phase thereafter; you're not going at it 3 days a week 52 weeks a year like a bodybuilder or powerlifter would. In the 'maintenance' phase you're not even doing leg training anymore (because you're doing Force work on the bike instead).

2. You'll note that it's the minimum number of exercises required for a cyclist; no deadlifts, overhead press, or anything else that doesn't contribute to making the bike go faster, or protecting you from injury if you crash. Big biceps may look nice, but they don't make the bike go faster, the extra mass just makes you slower on climbs.

3. The so-called 'arbitrary limits' on load for certain exercises are there for two reasons: to protect you from injury, and to help prevent the possibility of muscle imbalances. Also, there's a factor of 'diminishing returns', past which the extra muscle mass doesn't improve performance. Note also that when you reach those limits in MS phase you increase reps per set; remember that you're training for an Endurance sport, not bodybuilding or powerlifting.

4. You're not training for bodybuilding; you're training for compact, dense muscle in your prime movers, not maximum MASS like a bodybuilder would.

5. During race season you can't help but to lose some basic strength; your time in the gym in the off-season is to re-build the lost strength prior to starting your training plan for the following year.
>>
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>>1057145
>I hide indoors with my stationary bike when it's a little damp and cold therefore I'm a REAL biker please accept me! I would never dare get water on my Di2! am I serious cyclist yet?

No, fuck off
>>
>>1057149
Yes you're not training like a bodybuilder. Bodybuilding has nothing to do with strength training and should never be even brought up in the same context. However powerlifting has very much to do with strength training. And if you didn't know both power- and oly lifting have weight classes that the athletes need to stay under. Their goal isn't to become big and massive. Their goal is to become strong. Those are two completely different things.

1. Even that 10 week strength training phase is enough to take your squat up 75 - 100 kg if you're untrained. That's enough to be on the Bible's strength limits for most cyclists. If you're not doing any leg work during season you're an idiot. Heavy lifting once a week, or even once every two weeks is enough to somewhat retain the strength you've gotten during your strength building phase. If you don't do any leg work during season then what is the point of strength training in the first place if you just let it all go to waste.

2. Deadlifts and ohp both work your core, and protect you from crashes. Deadlifts or ohp don't do anything to your biceps. So don't worry about that.

3. Weightlifting is one of the safest sports there is. As long as you lift with proper form there is no need to stop at any given weight. Also strength training isn't about increasing muscle mass. It's about teaching your CNS to recruit better recruit the muscles you already have. In fact the growth of muscle mass isn't even wanted in weight class sports (or cycling for that matter)

4. Where did either of us ever mention bodybuilding. Forget bodybuilding already as it has absolutely nothing to do with strength training. Also you won't gain muscle mass no matter how much time you spend at the gym if you don't eat at a surplus. Don't want to get heavier? Don't eat at a surplus.

5. Losing some strength is understandable but not enough that you'll need the entire strength training period to rebuild.
>>
>>1057149
The main thing I was pointing out was the terrible squat's this book teaches. He says it's dangerous and he's right because he's teach you to do them wrong. When done correctly squats are completely safe. Every single thing about the pic I posted is incorrect. That pic is a one way ticket to snap city.
>>
>>1057083
The picture even includes the tampon on the bar.
>>
>>1057161
Yeah sure. The wheelset I use for the majority of my training has waterlogged rimstrips and some actual *corrosion* on it from being out in the California rainstorms so much, and I utterly ruined a perfectly good pair of winter gloves because they got completely soaked too many times. I also went through a set of rear brake pads in 2 days because on the 2nd day out in the rain some grit got stuck in them and wore them down to nothing. Yeah sure I don't ride outside all goddamned motherFUCKING winter long, goddamned motherFUCKING monsoon season-out-of-nowhere, yeah sure I do. Shove it up your ass, trainfag. You don't even own a goddamned bike.
>>
>>1057177
You're nuts if you're doing heavy sets of leg press or squats or heavy sets of any other leg exercise when your training week consists of long Threshold rides, anaerobic intervals, lactate tolerace reps, hill sprints, sets of full-on all-out sprints, and fast hard race-like group rides. After Early Base is done you move to more specific work on the BIKE; work in the gym is more GENERAL. If you're doing powerlifting training in the gym in the middle of race season, then your'e either not serious about racing, or your goddamned Superman. Which of those two choices do you think I believe is true?

If it's race season and you're doing heavy leg work in the goddamned gym, then you are SABOTAGING your efforts on the bike. Enjoy your poor race results and/or overtraining and/or burnout and/or injury.

Of course I'm not surprised at all that at least some of you would think this way. You only think of bike racing as a 'hobby', you're not in the least bit serious about what you're doing. Makes me wonder why you even bother in the first place and what your work ethic is like for other things.
>>
>>1057211
>>1057214
So the actual fuck what? It's a CYCLING TRIANING manual, not a goddamned bodybuilding/powerlifting manual. He dedicates less than a full page to the subject of freebar squats. Boo-fucking-hoo. You have the entire goddamned internet to look up how to do goddamned squats, you're as much an idiot to not use that as you are to be complaining about what's in the goddamned book. I'll go so far as to say you'd have to be STUPID to try to do freebar squats with ONLY that page in the book as your guide; he's just telling you 'you CAN do this exercise to strengthen you legs'. For fuck's sake ENTIRE BOOKS have been published JUST on things like squats, do you really think he's going to go to all that trouble? Get real.
>>
You know what? There are 64 unique posters in this thread, and of those I think MAYBE 3 or 4 besides myself are even halfway serious about what they're doing or what's being discussed here. Why am I even wasting my time here? I have better things to do than argue with idiots who either DGAF about this subject, or are just shitposting to derail it entirely. This thread and pretty much everyone in it can get fucked, I'm out. 4chan in general can get fucked, it's a worse waste of time than all the stupid twitch games on people's smartphones combined. I'd rather have NO conversation about this subject than bother with this place anymore.

The few of you that actually give a fuck about your training and about racing: Find somewhere else than this place. You're just as likely to get shitty disinformation here as you are not, and I'd rather you guys don't get sabotaged by assholes. Good luck to you and see you around.
>>
>>1057284
One day of squats or leg presses at a weight you've previously done won't compromise your on bike training. You're not supposed to lift more during that one day. You go to the gym, put whatever you did last time to the bar and do 3x5 for example. And if your training week is an absolute killer it's possible to skip the gym day once.

I never said to do strength training during the season. Only maintenance. There is a massive difference in what it demands from your body to keep up current strength levels and trying to increase them. Maintaining babby level 1.7x bw squats doesn't require massive amount of work and it won't compromise your on bike training. That's a guarantee.

>>1057285
Yes it's a cyclist training Bible. However it's advantageous if you don't experience horrible injuries during training. Snapping your shit with shitty squat technique will definitely fuck up your season. The complaint here is that if you try to teach people to squat you have to do it properly. If you can't do it properly just don't do it at all. The least he should do is mention those other books to teach proper form.

He mentions that squats are dangerous. That's an outright lie as long as they're done with proper form. They can definitely be dangerous if you listen to the advice of people like him. I'm not arguing that he doesn't know his shit about on bike training. The strength section however is absolute garbage.

>>1057286
>there are people here who actually know their shit and won't blindly believe to whatever broscience their coach has subscribed to
This place isn't a fucking hugbox. You should know that already. If you say stupid shit or buy into stupid shit you're gonna get called stupid.

There are people here trying to help you telling that Bible's strength section is not only shitty but outright dangerous and you're trying to defend it for some reason.
>>
>>1057283
>utterly ruined a perfectly good pair of winter gloves because they got completely soaked too many times.
>whining about the california winters
Crybaby please, I ride outside when it's snowing because I like riding bikes. Winter is the best time to ride because human garbage like you stay inside.

Apparel gets worn out, that's when you replace it.

I'm genuinely curious what cycling means to you. It's obviously not a love of riding bikes. Is this a kind of fashion? Do you do it so you can fit in at work?
>>
tfw I've started doing 1/2 races and not 3/4 races and no one ever lets a breakaway of any kind stick or even counter attacks. So you resort to counter attacking your own attack 25 minutes in and then 3 people bridge up and we get 10 sec on the field but people for some reason don't realize they have to pull at 400 watts and not their measly 330 watt ftp so we get reeled in. Then you rest for a while and there is a series of attacks at like 10togo and you bridge up to a group of 3 and it's the same shit. At least I'm not crashing every race anymore hehehe


Pussies man............
>>
>>1057286
No shit, I don't think many people are coming to a Zimbabwean dating website for racing and training advice.
>>
>>1057332
>crits
Lol
>>1057340
/r/velo is pretty good. I came to 4chan and discovered this after, not the other way around. I think that's the same for most people here. I think this thread just got ruined by that one runner asshole up top... most of the time it's pretty civil in here.
>>
>>1057351
>>crits
>Lol
Where the shit do I go to race a 3+ hour road race every weekend? Not shit over here on the east coast lol
>>
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First stage of my track accreditation next week!
Have ridden track, races, even team pursuits but now I have to ride the black line at 20km/h to prove I'm not incompetent
*Rolls eyes*

Still gonna be good fun though.
>>
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>there are people ITT with an FTP of less than 300 W
>>
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>>1057351
Excuse me. Did you mention me by name? Btw I pr'd in the 5k.
Thinking about building some wheels around a Ritchey hub I bought from a bike co-op. Looking at some 270 gram tubular rims from China. How many average mph faster would I go with these? I can cruise at 30 mph comfortably btw on flats. Btw I'm on dt Swiss axis 2.0 rn. They spin like shit but I have never serviced them.
>>
>>1057365
America loves crits. Do gravel if you want longer races.
>>
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hey guys I just figured that I can hold almost 600 Watts for 15ish minutes!
>>
>>1057462
@ an FTP of around (considering FTP is calculated off 95% of 20 minute power for "untrained athletes" I calculated it off 90% of 16 minute)
9.85W/kg
^^
>>
>>1057285
His bad advice is ok because there's not a lot of it. But That's just something I noticed upon a quick scan. If he's giving out bad advice on this page how many more instances are in this book? If you injure your back because you saw this dipshits bad advice you won't be doing much cycling at all. Why are you so ass blasted?
>>
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>>1057452
I figured there's a dropoff in efficiency the longer you go above tempo pace (i.e. at race pace) so I reduced muscular efficiency to 19% to get a low estimate of 446 watts... Which gives me a ballpark ftp of 402 watts and a power to weight ratio of 7.2W/kg (or 6.39W/kg if you factor in the weight of a 6.9 kilo bicycle)
>>
I've got a race in 2 months, followed by an AlpsX.
The race (MTB) is an absolute suffer-fest and also filled with some (ex-)pros, 30 km full-power. My target is, the man I am, to beat the ex-national champion in the woman category or at least stand (imaginary) on the podium. Top 10% overall would also be nice.
Question is: Should I start focusing on anaerobic training? I've done like 400km base-training this year, so I'm in much better form than last march.
Anything special for alp-crossing? Or just base-training, spiced with hill reps?
>>
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>>1057986
I recommend you take up running! in order to become fast, first you must move yourself great distances under your own power! retention of momentum is a great skill to have, and you can always do better at retaining it!
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>>1057989
Oh thanks. I've totally forgotten I'm on 4chan.
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>>1057996
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

anyways I suspect you have no idea what you're doing
otherwise you wouldn't be rejecting my good advice (which, by the way ignores the premise that you came to this thread to show off the fact that you might be competing in a long time from now...with some people who flunked out of professional cycling and need to dominate little bitches such as yourself)
^^
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>>1057989
Just do some training on fixed gear :^)
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>>1057999
i should stop taking the bait but please go away, this is cycling not running
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>>1058096
Yeah and you can get stronger for cycling by running as I assert everywhere I post itt
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>>1058107
>>1057999
>>1057989
runnig fuck up you knees dont do it
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2.5 hour ride. Decent tempo first half, then lots of fighting against the headwind.

Is my heartrate too high? How can I lower it? Should I try to lower it, or is this fine as I don't feel uncomfortable.
Resting heartrate is about 85
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>>1058203
HR is very personal. Power/HR/etc should be analyzed keeping your RPE in mind. If you felt fine, then no worries!
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>>1058203
What is your max? Mine is 205 and 160bpm is tempo but my tempo zone extends all the way to 173-175 even.
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>>1051703
Anyone have experience with using Hammer Energy Surge or any other ATP?
Thanks
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Doing my first races hopefully next weekend, I think my form is getting close to where it should be. But I'm still a bit worried about riding in a bunch, any tips?
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>>1058419
You should be riding in a bunch (and doing some contact exercises) well before trying to start racing.

Although maybe if you've got enough form in cat5 you can ride away from the group, who knows.
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Went out for my first group ride this morning. it was a tad bit cold, about 45F with hardly any wind at the start of a 35 mile ride. Had a few guys blow off the back a little early and I was dropped after a hill 20 miles in that rolled onto a pancake flat open road. wanting to get in contact I try get into rhythm but lost contact when they crossed a stop light. my legs are shaky, my lower back hurts, but I really wanna try again.
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>>1058734
What does this have to do with racing bicycles?
Since I'm in the thread posting already I'm going to mention that I got a pb in the 1500 m by a second after a first lap that was 16 seconds off pace.




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