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Why do we even argue about bikes when this thing exists? And it is not even expensive.

How do our taiwan made carbon bikes even compare?
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>>1108171
>lugged steel
>1 1/8 head tube
DROPPED
>>
campy still hasn't figured out how to make disc brakes? are they still reciting that hilarious "brakes aren't for stopping they're for modulating your speed" nonsense?
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>>1108175
Thats part of it. Probably the most iconic steel frame that ever was. I wish i had bought one back in the 90s when people were changing them for titanium or aluminium...

If you dont get it, go get a custom made steel frame.
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>>1108171
That's literally my dream bike, that frame is the best one ever.
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>>1108176
In fact traditional brakes do their job almost as well as disc brakes on road bikes. And mantenance, switching wheels etc is so much easier.

For competition i find disc brakes stupid except perhaps for par-roubaix style races where wider tires can be handy.

For sportive purpouses they make a little more sense since you preserve your expensive wheelset and can continue riding with a notsoround wheel.
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>>1108171
I don't understand these bikes. How am I supposed to ride without hunching my back horribly all the time?

>>1108192
Can confirm, have ridden road bike with very effective rim brakes.
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>>1108171
>>1108185

ok guys, i know shit about steel bikes. can you guys explain me why is this frame so good?

how does it compare to a good alu frame (like caad stuff), or to carbon bikes?

is weight kinda similar? stiffness? i really dont know.. do you win something else? price? maintenance?

honest questions, not bait, thonks
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>>1108176
if you can lock your front wheel enough that it either looses traction or you start to go otb, then discs won't help you any
they're mainly useful when its rainy or you're going down a long hill and don't want to heat up your rims
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>>1108212
>weight
good, triple butted steel can be pretty light, although of course carbon can be lighter
really, steel carbon or alu can be made light enough that it just doesn't matter except to freds
>stiffness
steel has this kind of springy quality to it that alu and carbon don't
in theory it is a bit less stiff, but you aren't going to notice on a good frame
it just has this lively feel that is kind of hard to imagine unless you've ridden a good steel frame
>price
shit steel is very cheap, but obviously shitty
high quality steel from major manufacturers, like old tange stuff, is about the same cost as modern alu, less than carbon
it used to be that steel was much cheaper because alu and carbon manufacturing were not well developed
modern super high end or custom made steel is very very expensive, but arguably the best quality there is
there are lots of small 1 man frame makers that do amazing things with steel, but since its all custom, its very expensive
>why is it good
they look amazingly good, much prettier than modern carbon bikes, although that is subjective
good steel feels fantastic to ride, there's less harshness, especially with a nice steel fork
in terms of maximizing performance per watt, you're better off with carbon, but unless you're a dentist that doesn't matter that much
steel just is really classy
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>>1108212
Is a classic frame that they have been producing since long long ago, and it's handmade with good steel, way better than alu, and probably about the same as high end carbon. The best thing of the frame is the paintjob, handmade and I think you can order custom colours.

The bike is for those guys that really really loves bikes and want to get an iconic bike that will last forever. Probably the same as when someone buys a rolls roice or some similar car. It's an item for enthusiasts, not for average riders, because it is really expensive.
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>>1108212
Its heavier and probably less stiff specialll compared to alloy. I remember the feel when i changed from a lugged steel Razesa frame to a Grisley Horizon oversized alloy with a Vitus alloy fork. Everything was so stiff, fast... But descending on rough surfaces... (i raced crits and road mainly at small towns and secondary roads since i was a junior back then) i found that being one of my strong points still, was not so easy as before. I eventually switched back to a steel fork.

Nowadays, carbon frames are incredible, stiff, reduce hi frecuency vibrations... But a steel frame stil feels very fast descending bad or technical roads or pedalling "round" (or properly) on the flat. It has some "sentiment du fer" ease, feels more "organic".

Climbing or sprinting, its less crisp, but well, one can enjoy it later descending if the road is without even thinking about 28mm tyres.

And look how its made...
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>>1108171
>italian anything
>better than Taiwan made shit
Tip top kek kok,OP.
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>>1108176
>doesnt even know Campy just released a hydraulic groupset
>Being this much of a fred.
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>>1108176
Campy has disc brakes, and they're as good as anyone else's. They're just not relevant for a classic steel racer.
>>1108212
A good steel frame can make for a lively but smooth ride that doesn't sacrifice precise handling or acceleration. Some of it comes down to the material, but a lot of it is because framebuilders have been working with good steel for a very long time and know how to make the most of it. The only carbon that I've ridden that matches a top-notch steel frame is the Bianchi Countervail stuff, which is amazing.
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>beautiful steel frame
>ruin it with COLNAGO COLNAGO COLNAGO BLABLABLABLBALKHJKHALKHALKHAKLHAKL
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>>1108171
>fulcrum wheels
>when fulcrum wheels are just campag wheels with different decals for people who aren't on campag
>yet, campag

>chrome fork
>black stem & carbon post

>crosschaining

>not their new potenza group that comes in silver- oh wait, that thing is fucking ugly
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>>1108222
On top of that, minor frame damage wont compromise a steel frame most of the time. A dent in a carbon or aluminum frame is basically game over
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>>1108309
Inb4 a bunch of spergs starting screeching about carbon repairs amd aluminum welding. Yes you can do them, but its usually really expensive and you have to find a REALLY good specialist. My last caebon repair ended up costing $220 for a little dent about 5mm across and 2mm deep
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tbf colnago have always been garish trollbikes
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>>1108290
Potenza looks nice and functions well but unfortunately doesn't have Ultrashift, and Campy won't revive the silver Ultratorque crank because they hate money.
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>>1108309
on top of this, you also don't have to worry too much about what you lean it against and where you clamp it on a workstand if its steel
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>>1108321
This is just rationalisation.
Steel is good, but it's not as light and stiff as carbon.
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>>1108290
Those are minor details, you can buy the frame and spec it with silver group and wheels.
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>>1108322
This is just rationalisation.
Carbon is good, but it's not as comfortable and durable as steel.
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>>1108322
people have different priorities
a very good steel frame will be almost as fast and stiff as carbon, but not quite
if your goal is to win a race, carbon is better, that's why all the pro bikes are carbon
if you just like riding and are willing to trade a bit of speed for a frame you like better, than its up to you
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>>1108175
Best of both worlds
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What's the price?

>>1108171
>How do our taiwan made carbon bikes even compare?
By being cheaper probably.
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>>1108367
The frameset is about 2000€.
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>>1108376
>2000€
>for a non-disc steel road frame
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>>1108394
2000€ for a:

Iconic, 80s, lugged, full italian made and painted, with almost custom paint and chrome, premium steel frame, that also comes in 16 sizes to choose.

Looks fair to me. Slam some unpainted alloy wheels, full silver campy 53-39 11-27 Athena group and matching bars and saddle and there you are. Sexiest bike and a joy to ride with friends on sundays, long sportives etc.

Keeping your regular racy carbon bike for training and tough climbing or fast days you should be more than ok.
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>>1108421
>Iconic, 80s
>5/4 inch steerer

try again
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>>1108423
Small concesion, and even that cam be solved.

Pic related, the 30th anniversary edition.
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>>1108176
>bbbbbut the big bike companies told me if i throw enough money at their products then i wont have to develop roding skills myself
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isn't steel springy as fuark?
literally don't get the appeal
if you're at the point where you don spandex and muh aero gear on every ride wouldn't having a light and stiff frame make MUCH more sense?
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>>1108446
Lol

Poe's law in full effect
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>>1108171
>carbon parts on steel frames
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>>1108176
But it's disc brakes that have better modulation. Either kind of brake can lock your wheel. Rim brakes are just very large disc brakes with sub optimal materials. And really where disc brakes some in is carbon rims, which is a very sub optimal material for braking.
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>>1108227
Did you copy from the C&V forum on bikeforums or something?
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>>1108309
>>1108311
Dents don't do major damage to aluminum and carbon repair is cheaper than welding if you don't mind it looking ugly as fuck. But if you're welding steel frames back together, it's ugly as fuck and it's not really welded steel frames that are repairable, it's brazed ones.

>>1108316
Ultrashift is fine with the EPS buttons. The EPS buttons more than make up for ultrashift.
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Does anyone make new downtube shifter grouppos?
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>>1108478
Nope, you can see that i wrote it not so well also (on the phone and english as a third language).

Just my experience. Reading it again i see that it seems i said alloy is stiffer than carbon, i didnt mean that, i tried to
say that the change from steel to alloy was (for me and with the particular bikes i had) the biggest leap in stiffnes feel. The change to carbon was less noticiable.

And yes, i raced a steel Razesa back in the nineties (without STIs at first and with only the right one later), and then switched to an alloy Grisley with full 105.

Those were the times...
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>>1108171
how much is it
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>>1108479
Can't dubbadump without US tho.
>>1108483
VO sells some Dia-Compe DT shifters that will work with anything that has less than 50mm total pull. No indexing though.
>>1108492
I'd ballpark $5k for that build unless you get the components from shady russians or something.
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>>1108555
You just double press the button. You can use a computer? Double clicking, same thing. Actually easier than trying to avoid overshifting.
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I'll keep mine tyvm
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>>1108564
I don't think you understand what the double dump is.
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>>1108171
>>1108426

Am i the only one who find these colnago paintjobs just plain ugly ? To me it looks just like some bad tuning paint but for bikes. I mean seriously, look at that pic, you might aswell replace it by tribal designs.
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>>1108576
Same, old Colnago is like Word Art of bikes
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>>1108576
I find it quite over the top, but a work of art none the less.
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>>1108572
Go ahead and tell me, because trying to shift just the right number of gears with Campy is a challenge. Sure it sounds nice in theory, but it's more accurate and nearly as quick to shift the 2-4 gears with rapid taps to get to the gear you actually need when you shift rings.

If you do the full 5 shifts, you're going to end up overshooting. The only gear combination you won't overshoot is 11sp 11-23 with a mid/compact crank.

I used to run Campagnolo, ultrashift is nice, but in practice it's more trouble than it's worth. The utility barely makes up for the fact that it's easy to misshift and harder to get the right number of clicks. Once you factor in the low profile easier to press EPS levers, ultrashift basically has no net advantage except being "real" campy, and being able to brag about doing something Shimano can't.
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>>1108576
They clearly appeal to the aesthetics of the 1980s.
And in the 1980s the eurotrash over-the-top-everything with eye-piercing colours was the shit.
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>>1108564
>>1108579
>I have never crested a hill and needed to go from lowest to highest gear
>I can't control how many gears to shift at once with campy
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>>1108356
Hell yeah, take a steel frame. But if you're on a gradient you'll be wishing you went alu or carbon.
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>>1108709
Have you actually ridden Campy or is it just an aspirational meme brand for you? Hills don't crest that fast, and even if they did, just changing the front would be good enough. The thumb lever is much harder to control than the finger lever because it is much shorter and you get less leverage, full throw spans 5 gears instead of 3, and she shifting effort for each additional gear doesn't ramp up making it trickier to do reliably.
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>>1108579
>Go ahead and tell me, because trying to shift just the right number of gears with Campy is a challenge.
You do realize that all manufacturers offer multiple shifts, right? Just not on the upshift, right?
Because multi-upshifting on Campa is not in any way, shape or form harder or more error prone than multi-downshifting, which in turn is not something unpossible that will make your bike explode, but a standard feature used by thousands of cyclists daily. With Shimomo and SRAM do too.
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>>1108716
Multi downshifting with the tiny thumb lever is, which is what is used for cassette dumping. I don't think you've actually even used campy
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>>1108714
Here's my bike >>1108425

>hills don't crest that fast
>just changing the front would be enough
Just today I've gone through the entire cassette and gone to large chainring multiple times after cresting. Also if you can't control how many gears you go over at once you might want to practice it a bit.
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>>1108720
>Multi downshifting with the tiny thumb lever is
It is what? It is exactly the same as any other shifter. You press, it clicks. You press gurther, get more clicks. Do trigger shifters trigger your autism too? That scary tiny lever for multi downshifting zomg.
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>>1108565
What an ugly bike.
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>>1108171
without referencing i can say with confidence that this bike retails for eighteen thousand dollars.
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>>1108899
Thats only the frame, im afraid.
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>>1108459
i take back what I said, i fell in love.
I want that frame
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>>1108579
It's easy as hell unless you have worn bushings or something. The point of double dumping is that you can switch large to small chainring and do a cassette dump at the same time with one quick motion, thus letting you retain your gear ratio. Being able to move up to five gears down at once saves a small amount of time when you want to attack.

US isn't necessary or anything, but it's really nice and something that I miss when I don't have it, tho not as much as I miss Ergopower when I'm using STI or doubletap.
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>>1108565
Soon to be classic steel hang on to it




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