[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/n/ - Transportation


Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 139 posters in this thread.

05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
06/20/16New 4chan Banner Contest with a chance to win a 4chan Pass! See the contest page for details.
[Hide] [Show All]


Meta on /qa/ only.
All meta discussion of boards is to be redirected to /qa/.


File: comfy_211.png (1.15 MB, 845x587)
1.15 MB
1.15 MB PNG
Comfy 80's train edition

Previous thread >>1092113
>>
>mfw there's a group in my city dedicated to the salvation of ugly and spatially inefficient buildings just because they're old.
>mfw they almost succeeded in saving a fucking PARKING RAMP
>mfw when they're trying to prevent major infill development project because it would mean the demolition of a tiny, abandoned train station that hasn't been used since the 50's
>>
File: 15ar8k.jpg (309 KB, 1024x684)
309 KB
309 KB JPG
I'm taking a transit planning class in school and I have to do a term paper project.

What should my topic be about? I'm from Minnesota if that helps.
>>
File: old_tram_map_zurich.jpg (119 KB, 800x604)
119 KB
119 KB JPG
>>1110047
Transit planning seems like the easiest work ever. I mean ffs, transit was being planned in the 19th century without modern computers and sheit, and it worked perfectly fine, in many euro cities the core transit lines still follow more or less the 19th century planning, like Zurich.

Give me any city and I'll draw you a decent transit map. I'll even do without subways, just trams, buses, and trains.
>>
File: Mould_Tokyo.jpg (99 KB, 500x298)
99 KB
99 KB JPG
>>1110050
>>1110047
I think this was posted here on /n/ once, they let a mould grow in a glass, where there was something that made the mould grow where there's population centers, and light (which the mould doesn't like) where there's mountains. Even fucking MOULD can design a transit system.
>>
Here the 80s weren't comfy at all.
>>
>>1110086
sucks to be you
>>
>>1109940
Post pics of the station building and /upg/ will decide whether or not it's worth preserving.
>>
>>1110050
try to improve colognes (Köln, Germany).
Public Transportation network, its pretty great imho
>>
File: karte_k_1983.gif (179 KB, 1950x1440)
179 KB
179 KB GIF
>>1110291
I like this one
>>
>>1110051
>>1110050
There's a lot more to transit planning then deciding where routes go...
>>
File: go-alrt-s1465-f597-i38.jpg (123 KB, 1050x737)
123 KB
123 KB JPG
What could have been.
>>
>>1110482
GO ALRT
>>
>>1109637
This is urban planning, right?

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/baffling-signage-montreal-bans-turns-onto-one-way-street-1.3596189
>>
>city announces new bike share program
>station to be installed one block away from my apt
>excited.jpg
>30 stations finally get installed
>walk up to station to find out pricing
>$3.50/per 30 minutes
>th..thanks
Buses are 75 cents and the god damn light rail (that will take you anywhere) is $1.75. What is the reason for this? Are bike shares just for rich tourists?
>>
>>1110963
In Seattle we have 3 dockless bikeshare companies that charge $1 per 30 minutes. It's great.
Sounds like your city's bikeshare is set up to fail.
>>
>>1110963
In Montreal it's $2.95 for a 30 minutes but then $5 for a full day.
>>
>melbourne and sydney
h-help
>>
File: abandoned station.png (852 KB, 824x533)
852 KB
852 KB PNG
>>1110281
>>
I think Social Bicycles has the best bike share program. They can be locked anywhere (though you have to pay a $1 fee if it's not at a hub) and you get charged by the minute for using them unlike in some cities where you have to have a fucking pass of some sort to use their bike share program

http://socialbicycles.com/
>>
>>1111602
hmmmm pretty aesthetic
renovate that bitch

looks better than whatever glass shitbox they will put in its place desu
>>
>>1111602
Future homegrown, fair-trade, organic, gluten free coffee shop right there
>>
How do you revitalize a small town downtown? Classic main street type of downtown.
Any interesting articles or stories you've heard of?
>>
>>1112143
It's difficult to say, without knowing what problems the town's downtown faces currently, what kind of town it is, and what it has to offer.
>>
>>1111602
It's breddy gud. Nice brick architecture. I'd preserve it.
>>
>>1112143
The same way you revitalize any town:
1. Make town walkable: Nice big sidewalks, many benches, occasional parks
2. If the town is large enough to justify it, significant improvements in public transit: For small town too large to be properly walkable (as in too many journeys are too far to walk) but without traffic problems, a good bus system isn't rocket science. Some bus lanes can be good too, also as a deterrent for cars. Design the bus system with at least 15 minute frequencies on trunk lines, and have a mainly radial system focused around a main trunk along main street.

Take two of those and call me in the morning.
>>
City decided to reduce traffic congestion
>Oh, the bus system is growing too fast and those sheer number of buses are blocking the road,let's cap the amount pf buses
????
>>
>>1112255
>>1112171
Less than 10k people so no fixed route transit. Only seven blocks long. Nicely bookended by lakes. Perception of crime and undesirables walking around although the facts don't really support this .
Large number of vacancies. Absentee landlords with poor facades and upkeep. All of the buildings are multiple stories but many of the 2nd floors are vacant with no housing.
Overall slowly decline population but is a regional center. Some retail pulled away towards the highway and the strip malls/ big box stores.
Streets are in pretty good shape but sidewalks not large enough for sidewalk cafes. They have angled parking and on the one block they have parallel parking the sidewalk is about 15 feet with trees, planters and benches. Nice classic streetlights.
>>
>>1112339
Is it close to a major city by any chance, and if so, is there a train from the town to the city?

The general idea is to attract young people, since they like the downtown lifestyle where everything is in walking distance. It sounds like the population decline has also caused the town to age.
>>
>>1112339
If the town's main role is a "regional center", then I guess, to revitalize the town, the most direct way is to improce the economy of the entire region?
>>
>>1112445
The region's economy was based on resource extraction and now employs a small fraction of what they used to. The mines are closing and proposed mines are facing tough environmental hurdles from the government. Even if new mines open up, many of the employees are just brought from out of state/county by the international mining conglomerates. It's a sad state of affairs.


>>1112343
No trains. About an hour drive from the nearest big city (100k).
Aging is one of the concerns of the town. They think they're all old and that all of the young people just leave. The local tech school is relatively nearby. It'd be awesome if they could get the students to live in the 2nd/3rd floor apartments.
>>
>>1112339
>>1112560
>Streets are in pretty good shape but sidewalks not large enough for sidewalk cafes. They have angled parking and on the one block they have parallel parking
You need pic related. Or better still, fuck street parking and enlarge sidewalks.

>No trains. About an hour drive from the nearest big city (100k).
A regular bus line to the city with practical timetable would be good, say every hour on the hour or something like that. That way you can get day tourism. Can do wonders for such small towns. Also that way people could commute without needing a car, which is good for young people and students.
>>
>>1112880
>>1112560
Oh, also another idea could be to convert some mining facility into a museum on local mining history. Again, good for day tourism.
>take convenient bus from the city to the town
>Go have a stroll around the lakes
>visit the mines
>have a bite to eat on main street
>take the bus back
hell I do shit like this all the time because I can't afford proper holidays.
>>
File: superilla490.png (19 KB, 490x352)
19 KB
19 KB PNG
Guise, let's have a giggle. Remember the "superblock" or Superilla in Barcelona? Apparently it's marked in Google and you can rate it. Some buttmad NIMBY has already given it just 1 star. But there's only 4 reviews in total. Let's all give it 5 star reviews to troll the butthurt carfags.

https://www.google.es/maps/place/Superilla/@41.4011759,2.1918764,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xbb540e60ab109131!8m2!3d41.402499!4d2.194971
>>
Parking minimums and suburbia single family unit zones are fucking illegal and worse than nazis

Don't tread on my walkability
>>
>>1110964

So glad the city dumped Pronto. The new bikeshare is great, but the app needs to work better.
>>
>>1110963
Which city?
>>
>>1112882
Shit, I love seeing mines. Just toured a local quarry a couple weeks ago. Picked up a couple neat mineral specimens too.
>>
>>1112907
Literally depriving property rights.
>>
>>1111602
keep it

that looks like a branch line next to it that might get abandoned by the railroad someday, the city could snap that up and make it a trail or more
>>
>>1113409
No it's not. #EuclidvAmbler #notaregulatorytaking
>>
>>1113419
>EuclidvAmbler

Thanks, I did not know that.
>>
traffic laws are unconstitutional and illegal

this country was much better before child labor laws and traffic restrictions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRbMMqj0qw
>>
>>1113419
>The Court noted that the challenger in a due process case would have to show that the law in question is discriminatory and has no rational basis
parking minimums are irrational

>Further, the Court found that Ambler Realty had offered no evidence that the ordinance had in fact had any effect on the value of the property in question
single family zoning has the adverse effect, but are also very arbitrary

the supreme court needs to outlaw many of these arbitrary and retarded restrictions that greedy land developers create
>>
>In short the court ruled that zoning ordinances, regulations and laws must find their justification in some aspect of police power and asserted for the public welfare. Benefit for the public welfare must be determined in connection with the circumstances, the conditions and the locality of the case.

You could also argue that density limits no longer serve the public welfare because it is driving up housing costs beyond what they would otherwise be.
>>
>>1115479
Or that mandated low density housing is causing environmental damage, including immediate health issues, for humanity and other species. I'd thing it'd be hard to argue zoning policies that are literally killing people contribute to the welfare of the public.
>>
>>1110963
Surprising. Boris bikes in London are £2 for unlimited rides less than 30 minutes long in the following 24 hours.
>>
>>1116943
I mean, the largest concentration of Ahmadiyya Muslims in Canada is in Vaughan, after all.
>>
>>1112883
Errr you guys sure don't have any more important things going on right now to deal with than these superblocks?
>>
>>1112339
Put a tax on absentee owners
Bikeshare
Hourly transit to city
Rezone to eliminate big box
Gradually replace parking with sidewalks and bike lanes
>>
>>1112339
>>1112560
>>1112882
Also, what town and what city?
>>
>>1117106
>>1117108
Virginia, Minnesota (Virginia is the city's name)
>>
File: virginia mn bus.png (13 KB, 262x485)
13 KB
13 KB PNG
>>1117167
There's already an intercity bus running. Adding more frequency might help
>>
File: irony bus.png (362 KB, 706x588)
362 KB
362 KB PNG
>>1117286
Also, the irony
>>
>>1117286
>>1117167
>>1117287
From what I saw, the Hockey hall of fame is south of town. Maybe try to relocate to be downtown, or at least tie a bus routing to it
>>
>tfw weaponized autism of /n/ offers better solutions for revitalizing small town than most average city planners
I always knew those people were hacks.
>>
>>1117068
Nah, just the usual shitshow. No reason why city hall should stray from its duties.
>>
File: 7cb2fec33c939cdf.jpg (96 KB, 727x704)
96 KB
96 KB JPG
Self driving bus to launch in China by the end of the year
>>
>>1117760
This would be good for reducing the cost of running a transit system, but I once saw someone raise the point that bus drivers do a lot more than drive:
>help tourists and the elderly with directions
>activate wheelchair ramp and help the disabled into their wheelchair restraints
>serve as a deterrent to antisocial behavior on buses and calling the cops if needed
>>
>>1117848
If it wasn't for unions you could probably pay drivers less because they would no longer need the driver licensing of a commercial use. I can't see unions allowing you to hire less trained individuals and lower paid people to ride and babysit passengers on a bus.
>>
>>1117848
Check out this idea:
Self-driving bus/tram/other form of transit, where the once driver, becomes vehicle manager instead. He could be checking tickets, increasing profitability of the transit, he would keep an eye on the passengers, making sure that the vehicle is not being vandalised, he could help others, activate ramp, and generally improving the pleasure of travel.
Imagine how many parents could be willing to let their kids ride on their own, if they knew there was someone watching over them.
>>
>>1117849
>>1117850
The problem is, you still have to pay someone's salary and overtime to have them sit on a bus and do these things. If I'm not mistaken, labor is one of the biggest expenses for a transit system. The savings from converting drivers to attendants would be marginal at best.
>>
>>1117848
>All the non driving purposes
Just hire some helpers/assistants instead of drver, they're almost certainly much cheaper
>help tourist and elderly
- If tourist can't figure out where they want to go, just give them an app or a website, or just tell them use google maps
- Elderlies able to use public transportation system alone is supposed to be able to act individually too.
>Wheelchair helping
They can just make a button for ramp extension which I saw such a design on a self driving bus in Taiwan already.
Restraining the wheelchair is probably more difficult but it's most probably possible to make a gripping device to grip that?
>deterrent to antisocial behavior and call cops
There are other passengers onboard. Even if there are no then that's still no different from private car. Although probably need to have some toxic gas sensor and etc on board
>>
Any recommendations for urban planning related books, documentaries, youtube channels, etc.?
>>
What's this?
>>
File: 1b77bde5b13034e7.jpg (170 KB, 1440x1080)
170 KB
170 KB JPG
Result of implementing security check at rapid transit station entry/exit with near as strict as airports
>>
>>1118228
That's a trolleybus, the best form of bus, and one of the quietest modes of transport around. I can't explain why that bloke is jumping the fence though.
>>
>>1118237
But why people say it is "slower than bike" despite being given 100% right of way, and caused much longer queue at stations than when the road was served by regular buses?
>>
>>1118228
>What's this?
some chink tryna fare-evade.
>>
>>1118245
If it's been travelling slower than a bike then it has to stop too frequently and for too long to pick up passengers. In general, I find that I travel about as fast as a Melbourne tram out in the suburbs and faster than one in the city. Speed isn't everything though because not everyone can ride a bike in traffic.
>>
terminate my existence
>>
>>1118334
Humm. seems like another conplain against this trolleybus route is the termination of through service, which require users previously able to ride their bus directly to destination to have to change bus once or twice. How's this type of complain about needs to transfer being addressed elsewhere when bus routes are reformed?
>>
>>1118356
What's the problem here? I the only thing I see wrong is the excessive amount of parking lots
>>
>>1118442
There's other problems too:

All the roads look awful to ride a bicycle on, especially the bridges.

There's very little natural river bank, instead there's highways. And those highways do like pretty hellish.
>>
>>1118231
"Efficiency with Chinese characteristics" - CPC/PRC
>>
>>1118443
I live a mile north of where >>1118356 is pictured. It is nice

>All the roads look awful to ride a bicycle on, especially the bridges.

2 of the 3 bridges in the center have bike lanes. The other bridges have dedicated mixed use sidewalks/trails that connect to riverfront trails. Our mayor is big on bike lanes to the point it has become to go to insult by opponents. Over half of my daily 5.5 mile commute is on protected bike lanes or mixed use trails. The other half is on low speed residential streets.

>>1118442
They have been filling in the parking lots with new construction and parking garages over the last 15 years.
>>
>>1117167
Isn't Virginia next to some iron mines? if so if they ever get abandoned you could do something like what Cuyuna and turn them into signal track. I here its really boosted tourism in that area which depending on who you ask a shit load of mountain bikers hanging around 3/4 of a year is either a good or bad thing.
>>
>>1112339
Aside from physical changes that make a space more enjoyable, look into providing programs aimed at assisting existing or new businesses such as setting up a Business Improvement District. This helps the businesses get organized and get on the same page about redeveloping the area, and helps increase funds that may go towards revitalizing. You could also get into developing an identity for the area. Sort of rebranding the downtown could help change peoples perception of having crime. develop public events downtown that help bring in all sorts of people. Do not just target one audience. the best thing is to get different crowds throughout the day. Again just the presence of people helps change the perception of safety.
>>
>>1118231
former beijinger here, that's bullshit.

security checkpoint or not during rush hour this ALWAYS happens. The slightest line problems also create packed full stations. Otherwise the security checkpoints are pretty efficient, especially those in Guomao and Xidan.
>>
>>1110050
It seems easy but there's the whole thing where people exist and are so very dumb. Maybe if you had access to Google's people tracker and some analytics tools to help plan.
>>
What do you think of the idea of letting go of planning?
>>
>>1119230
People will travel how I tell them to travel!
>>
>>1110050
>Transit planning seems like the easiest work ever.
Yeah, I guess that's why it goes wrong so often.
>>
>>1119975
Who /marketurbanist/ here?
I look up to this guy:
http://ti.org/antiplanner/
>>
>>1119187
I think it is outside station
>>
>>1120024
It goes wrong because of pressure from the auto lobby and NIMBYs
>>
>>1120104
If height goes unrestricted, developers wilm just make shitty tower habitation everywhere

See: the third world
>>
>>1120104
>Who /marketurbanist/ here?

Not me because I'm not a fucking retard
>>
>>1120104
Too many fucking demsoc kiddies into urbanism
If you suggest that 25% IZ isn't sustainable suddenly you're basically Hitler
>>
>>1120143
No, because you can make more money from a luxury tower than a shitty one
Third world development isn't even close to a good analogue for development in Western countries
>>
>>1120132
this picture might be but he's refering to the security systems implemented at the entrance to any station. metal detector and luggage xray. Though as i said earlier it's hardly a problem.
>>
>>1120402
>No, because you can make more money from a luxury tower than a shitty one

What are you trying to say, that people will vote with their wallets...?
>>
>>1120671
That whatever you said about unrestricted height limits encouraging shitty third world tower development is total horseshit.
Developers look to maximize the value of their land. Luxury towers have better ROI than shitty ones, provided that the population isn't third world poor and can actually afford it.
Sure, once the top end of the market is saturated, you'll start seeing developers targeting the middle section of the market, which is a completely good thing
>>
Where is Amazon HQ2 going? Will it be worth the subsidies?
>>
What will happen if all city in the road are converted into andall vehicles including private cars are retrofitted to run on the rail?
>>
>>1120982
No, since it's a bidding process between politicians. Someone will end up giving up way too much.
>>
>>1121174
I laughed at New Jersey offering $7 billion in tax breaks. I couldn't believe that Chris Christie was proud of that. Maybe New Jersey needs all the help it can get.

Related:
>Jeff Bezos’ Heart Breaks A Little Reading Albany’s Amazon Headquarters Pitch

https://www.theonion.com/jeff-bezos-heart-breaks-a-little-reading-albany-s-amaz-1819819152
>>
>>1121173
*all roads in a city
>>
>>1121207
>$5 billion investment
>$7 billion incentive

lol
>>
>>1120402
"Luxury" towers are also third world tier. The thing is the market for luxury towers is very limited, while the poor and working class are much bigger. So they make shitty towers
>>
>>1120402
>Third world development isn't even close to a good analogue for development in Western countries
Look at residential towers in milan. Or banlieus (sorry if i spelled it wrong) in france. Or towers anywhere in western europe. The only thingd really setting the west apart are well preserved and well developed historical cities, with their street front height retricted massive building blocks.
>>
>>1121173
>>1121291
> Heisenberg Compnsator for superpositioning track switches
Colossal Order needs to hire you.
>>
What is the difference between Feldbahn and Werksbahn ?
>>
For most of history, walls drew a clear line for where is the city and where is the farm. How can we replicate this in our time?
>>
>>1122472
Greenbelts.
>>
>>1122206
>>1122207
Okay, so i think North America might be an exception. The luxury market is enormous, because you have a huge pool of buyers from Asia snapping up condos like they're going out of style plus the fact that the poor. Look at high rise development in NYC, Vancouver, Seattle, and Chicago recently. All on the high end. It's also not cost effective to build high rises aimed at the poor, as high rise construction is more expensive than a comparable number of mid/low rise units, particularly where land is cheap and plentiful (i.e. undesirable places where the rich don't want to live). Think like a developer - they just want to recoup their investment as quickly as possible. Building a high rise for poor people is retarded unless you've got heavy government subsidies.
>>
>>1122472
Urban growth boundaries.
>>
>>1122507
>Look at high rise development in NYC, Vancouver, Seattle, and Chicago
ALL exceptions in the world stage, you are right. I'm not talking about first class cities where millionaires flock to. Most people in the world live in mid sized cities. If i think like an investor where there are no size restrictions, I'll usually make big towers in mid sized cities. Do you think developers on the third world don't make the same thought process? It's very advantageous to make towers except on the very least dense places, where not many people live.

Between the most dense cities and the countryside there is a big spectrum where most people live. There's where no height limits would kill the landscape.

Building high (I'm not talking like 100 floors high, more like ~25 that don't require air sealing) is way more cost effective than building low
>>
>>1122502
>>1122509
"IRRATIONAL UNSCIENTIFIC ANTI-CITY POLICIES OF MAYOR X ARE RAISING PROPERTY PRICES SKY HIGH"

t. media
>>
>>1122472
China is implementing this pretty strictly
>>
>>1122507
Actually, simply ask property develipers to build and provide accompanying mass transit option and be done with it
>>
>>1122625
>how to ensure less housing is built in 1 easy step
>>
>>1122635
Demand is demand. Either housing can be built at an affordable price, including infrastructure, or it can't. If there are people who can't afford homes, that's what subsidized housing is for.
>>
>>1122625
That's a reasonable idea, but one that will ensure developers build shitty towers if there are no height limits
>>
>>1122676
>including infrastructure
If you make it more expensive to build, less housing will be built. For example, look at inclusionary zoning, where a given % of units must be offered at below market rate. Without accompanying relaxation of the zoning code (e.g. allowing more floors to be built, thereby offsetting the loss from renting below market units), many developers just won't bother to build anything if the % is too high. They tried this in SF with 25% IZ, and it was a failure.

If simply forcing developers to offer 15% of their units at below market rates is enough to make the value equation not pencil out, imagine what'd happen if you also forced them to build rail lines with their units. Whatever did get built would be really expensive to make it worth the developer's effort.
>>
>>1122727
Is there such a thing as a non shitty tower in your opinion, or are you just here to spout the same meme over and over? What is your preferred style of city zoning scheme, and what kind of height limit do you find reasonable?
>>
>>1122749
Yes, new york has some. Most importantly the towers themselves are set back a bit and the façade doesn't go as high. Having a full facade is neat.

But it's only justifiable in a select few cities. I prefer mixed use zones with some 8 floors at most. Not at all unreasonable and you can get decent density
>>
>>1122749
>height limit
none
>setback
none

Even if luxury towers are built, you reach a point where there's so many luxury towers that they're all cheap
>>
>>1118237
Not sure id agree with the best form of bus idea
Whilst the cleanliness and efficiency of trolley buses is great (thank god for electric motors) they've got major downsides which make them worse than buses or trams
They're not as adaptable as buses, so routes can't be adjusted due to roadworks or other changes on the route but they're also far more adaptable than trams so their routes can be changed without much thought or planning removing the chance of communities being built up around stops, lines and hubs

(Appreciate this is replying to an old post but this is my first post here and I'm unsure of etiquette)
>>
>>1122894
>you reach a point where there's so many luxury towers that they're all cheap
Congratulations, you discovered market urbanism
>>
>>1122894
Towers are a necessity in new york and hong kong
>>
>>1111602
That's a charming little building. Would happily buy a coffee there
>>
>>1112097
>>1112137
>>1112237
>>1113412
>>1122997

I have an aneurysm
>>
>>1122905
It's ok, anon I'm still lurking /n/ after this post.
>far more adapatable than trams
I disagree that trolleybuses have any more flexibility in routes than trams. After all, both need overhead power in a curve to make a turn, just that the tram also happens to need tracks. I assume you refer to mostly street running when you say tram. Clearly, segregated tram routes are quite inflexible, but that's the nature of light rail which is a different beast that handles a different situation better.

>communities around stops lines and hubs
This is what you want to happen, and it will always happen as long as the tram track / overheads are still there and have transport happening on them. Transport routes should naturally form a grid or a star radiating from the city centre.

As for
>best form of bus
Because they're more energy efficient, quieter, you can see where they go, they don't need expensive batteries, they can still pull over like a bus and you can run them on renewables.
>>
Why low cost "share bus" in Japan are not able to gain market share from legacy intercity bus, in contrast against aviation market?
>>
>>1123502
>low cost "share bus" in Japan
what are those?
>>
>>1123502
Political jewery

Like taxi cartels
>>
>>1123524
>>1123502
*Typo, I mean "Intercity Tour bus" service that are rented by agency ahead of time and then split and sold for cost that are less than regular long distance bus in Japan
>>
File: hangine pepe.gif (173 KB, 600x630)
173 KB
173 KB GIF
>local transit agency recently posted an opening for an entry level planning position
>found out it had 96 applicants
>>
>>1124044
Such is life on our current job market
>>
>>1124054
I'm in graduate school for planning and whenever I see a nice planning job pop up I debate whether I'm actually in school to learn or I just want to be employed as a planner. I stress out about all these openings when I guess I should just wait until I graduate and then compete with all the applicants with masters because it seems a masters is standard.
>>
>>1124054
so true
every fucking time there's a gorillion applicants for any openings
why even bother if you're not some sort of rainman tier genius
>>
>>1124119
>why even bother
Why not try?
>>
This is our local nimbys protesting the infill of their neighborhood.
And this is the neighborhood in question.
https://www.google.ru/maps/@54.8650173,83.0894897,3a,75y,32.41h,87.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sADfm_FoBDRhfhXrgXczy5A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
WOW SUCH DENSITY OVERLOAD.
>>
>>1113412
city would never do that. they would demolish instantly and make the station a glass box
>>
>>1111602
Well it doesn't look like the land value is sky high there. No need to demolish a perfectly good building. Better infill the parking lot to the left.
> Implying it's ever politically possible to repurpose a parking lot.
>>
>>
>>1124169
>novosibirsk
so this is what communist urban planning in the middle of no where feels like huh?
>>
>>1124341
It depends. Sometimes it feels nice. Just some kilometers south is this place:
https://www.google.ru/maps/@54.8352761,83.0982112,3a,75y,338.01h,101.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXtjUfHc7RVafyglToNLtAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This is the Upper Zone of Akademgorodok, and it was actually heavily planned. But it wasn't planned like everything else, they tried to make something different, like having places to hang out.
>>1124169 Is Lower Zone. Originally it was consisted of temporary wooden shacks for builders of Akademgorodok, but now it's inhabited by people who can't afford to live in Upper Zone. It feels much less nice.
Also the nimbys have won in the Upper Zone. It has been made into some sort of "culturally significant are" where new buildings are not allowed at all. Want to build something new? Tear down an old building and build in its place. Oh, and height is restricted.
>>
>>1124439
>Oh, and height is restricted.
How restricted? Depending on how much, this is a good thing
>>
http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/12/60yrsmidwest/

Some great aerial images of the power of Midwestern American urban planning.
>>
>>1125591
> Midwestern American urban """"planning"""""
>>
>>1125591
holy damn, everything was much denser
>>
>>1125580
About 20 meters for residential. Not too restrictive but I'm afraid it's enough to make greenfield more feasible.
>>
>>1125849
Is mixed use allowed? 20 meters seem like a fair limit to me, honestly
>>
File: zones.small.jpg (3.33 MB, 1662x2374)
3.33 MB
3.33 MB JPG
>>1126010
> 20 meters seem like a fair limit to me, honestly
Eh fair enough.
> Is mixed use allowed?
Kind of but not really.
It was strictly divided into three zones (residential, scientific insitutes and warehouses) when it was originally planned and they want to preserve them to some degree.
In residential you can have stores, schools etc, but not office buildings.
You can't have housing in the scientific institute zone.
There are smaller zones such as university campus, hospitals, shopping district. The zones in general are situated so you can walk from one to another in reasonable time.
Warehouse zone didn't make it, now it has offices, big box stores etc, and a residential highrise is being built.
>>
File: Sky-Tower-41-Exterior.jpg (55 KB, 570x380)
55 KB
55 KB JPG
>>1125580
Height restrictions aren't a good thing

The free market should determine the height of a building
>>
>>1126697
The free market should buy the road in your house and starve you to death
>>
>>1126700
He's under no obligation to sell the "road in his house," whatever the fuck that means, if he doesn't want to. That's kind of how a free market works.
>>
>>1126703
In front of his house*
I'll buy all around his house and make a compound of rave nightclubs and motorcycle race tracks
>>
>>1126706
Sure, if surrounding property owners are willing to sell, but putting nightclubs or a low value business like a racetrack in a residential area is a great way to throw away a lot of your own money just to spite a poster on 4chan, which is why such retarded land use would generally never occur.
I also don't think anyone is arguing that an anarcho-capitalist state is a desirable thing - merely that if your neighbor wanted to tear down his house and build a duplex or a 5 story apartment building on the land he owns, he could do it. Restrictive zoning inhibits density and walkability and exacerbates the housing crisis going on in many cities.
>>
>>1126709
Generally, the level of density made possible by high rises is not necessary aside from already dense and overpopulated places with restricted land - such as hong kong.

If a tower is built, the general state of the neighborhood wiill be affected, but his own will create revenue.

The housing crisis was not a problem in late 19th century paris, new york or most major cities of the west which had their height restricted for public good. Construction costs, utilities and regulations are a much bigger issue.

It would be the same as allowing manufactures anywhere. They represent something undesirable which creates issues.
>>
>>1124439
>Oh, and height is restricted.
3 or 4 floors?
Because thats mostly fine.
Same is having to buy out to replace, meaning its unlikely for a investor to actually get 6-8 houses, to build a soviet block house for renting to cheap shits.
>>
>>1110480
There is. But the simplest fuck up is to plan it bit by bit, instead of making a mega plan, and sticking/improving it as you go.
Another common failure is to have a city in a area thats regulated different between zones, like the border of counties.
So everything goes fine until population starts crossing that area, where infrastructure is lacking or built on different principles.

My personal favorite is cities that is pre modern, but because of centralization, starts absorbing the bulk of the countries population.
Now in most places, this means the county of the city starts eating the surrounding counties, to avoid a weak infrastructure.
But if it doesn't happen, you get the situation where there is no planning of infrastructure, public transportation stopping at county borders, and massive housing prices towards the center due massive house marked pressure.

>>1110963
Yes.
Bike sharing is for rich tourists.
Mostly because walking sucks, but biking is really nice(20km/h with little to no effort).
>>
File: Gandalf_Laugh.gif (607 KB, 400x200)
607 KB
607 KB GIF
>>1117855
>labor is one of the biggest expenses for a transit system.
Still dwarfed by cost of maintenance and fuel.
>>
>>1120982
>Will it be worth the subsidies?
No. The only thing it will do, is to stop said city from bleeding jobs.
Most likely its infrastructure will be underdeveloped in the first place, and a external population moving in is not healthy in the long term.
>>
>>1126713
We're not talking about high rises though. It's about duplexes, triplexes, rowhomes, and low/mid rise apartment buildings. I live in Seattle, which has a serious housing affordability crisis, and it's exacerbated by the fact that 2/3 of the city is zoned for single family homes - even duplexes the same size as SFHs are illegal in such zones. Simply cramming midrise apartment buildings into the remaining 1/3 isn't enough supply to meet the rising demand.
Late 19th century Paris was pretty much uniformly midrise 7-8 stories, which means that overall it's incredibly dense. That's not the case in places like Seattle and San Francisco.
>>
>>1126737
I was saying exactly this. It's why i wrote "depending on how much".
>>
Why is housing so darn expensive now? Fucking hell I'd rather live in my car (subsidised parking yo)
>>
>>1126766
Because demand exceeds supply
>>
>>1126768
But why though
Get that supply up nigga, i need somewhere to live
>>
>>1126766
>>1126770
People who own houses now vote for laws that increase the price of housing, usually by restricting the supply of new housing, so that their own houses will be worth more money. The demographics that own houses (ie older and richer people) are also more politically active and connected than those that don't, so every politician has to support these laws if they want to get elected.
>>
>>1126766
Poor urban planning means commute increases.
So houses closer to where work is located, increase in price.
On top of that, nice neighborhoods is actually nice, so nobody wants to allow some mothafucker to build a high rise commieblock there. Mostly because property is so old, that they come with huge gardens.
And on top of that: Commieblocks will have undersized apartments, meaning couples will have to leave them behind anyhow, and settle somewhere else.

Now, you add in other problems, such as
Poor public infrastructure means fastest method is car, so a hour drive is a hour drive.
Otherwise you get stuff like Tokyo, where its possible to live extremely far from Tokyo, but commute with a high speed train into a slower local version the last few kilometers.
And then you run into issues such as building codes, where the real issue is that block apartments are undersized in the first place
Natural cost of building tall building, and safety standards against earthquake/fall storms
Commune/County having retarded zones, meaning infrastructure to fix the problem can't be built
Poor urban planning means workplaces, warehouses, industrial zones and housing zones are built randomly, instead of spread out into larger zones, to avoid massive congestion

And the biggest problem:
If people can pay for housing, housing will increase in price.
On top of that, people compete with larger corporations and oligarchs, who is willing to do extensive buyouts, to later perform price gouging or rent seeking. And thats still true of middleclass versus rich.
There is a reason private skyscraper with a private top floor with housing, thats a real meme.
>>
>>1126713
>undesirable
Low property costs from massively freed up supply is undesirable to homeowners who like to keep the price artificially high.

If everyone builds high the price goes down very fast as supply greatly outpaces demand

Height limits are stupid. Factories is another thing.
>>
>>1126839
Factories are exactly the same thing for the porpouse of boundary limits. Why are nightclubs limited to some places? Why can't i take a powerful as fuck sound system and play it on the loudest anywhere i want?

There are boundaries which serve to serve the majority in favour of the minority. With towers it is the same. In places where there is no need to have towers, that prey on privacy and the general state of the place.

What you say may feel right to you. I'll give an example. Imagine a pictoresque village in italy. The population is steady, but it's close to another city. Should you ruin the lives of the entire town because you want to make a tower for the people of the nearby localities? It's pure selfishness. And there is no necessity for it in 99% of the places, even major cities. Medium height ~7 floors is dense enough.
>>
>>1127006
>. Imagine a pictoresque village in italy. The population is steady, but it's close to another city.
According to your ideas the city would simply expand under height limits and fill the entire town with 7 storey glass towers

According to mines the village will have no demand and towers will be built in the city by corporations because no one wants to commute

Pick one

Destruction of picturesque village

or not?

No one would build housing near a nightclub without soundproofing

No one would build a nightclub in a residential place because there would be no demand.

No one would build a chemical factory in a residential district because no one would insure it in the first world.
>>
How many of you /n/uggets are actual planners? Suburban US planner here.
>>
>>1120401
What's IZ?
>>
>>1127159
>Suburban US planner here
easiest job on the planet

uga uga
we make road
uuh
and more road here
>>
>>1127163
I'd actually be interested to know of a low density suburb with a transit system that is cheap, yet usable by everyone.
>>
>>1127165
Doesn't exist
>>
>>1127159
I'm in my first semester of grad school. So far I've just worked as a transit planning intern.

Any suggestions or recommendations on things I should make sure I learn?
>>
>>1127163
It's easy to do the uga uga work. It's hard to educate people on things like good design and how to not be complete retards. And it's literally impossible to improve the situation for the future.
>>1127177
In my experience, the planning world is way small. Suck as much dick as possible (figuratively... or literally I guess). If your boss likes you and recommends you for a real job somewhere else, then you're set. Plus, as I'm sure you know from grad school, you have a lot of competition, but they're all fags.
>>
>>1127165
the suburb isn't the problem, the problem is a lack of fast high-capacity trunk lines to and from the city. Then you can just have feeder buses timed to the train/LRT/BRT departure, or simply with a reasonable frequency of at least every 15 minutes.
A properly designed suburban feeder bus system can easily extend the coverage of your rapid transit to about 3-5 miles
>>
>>1127160
Inclusionary zoning. A scheme where a certain percentage of units in new apartment buildings have to be offered at below-market rates to low income people. It sounds good on its face but really ends up depressing the amount of supply by making it harder for projects to pencil out
>>
>>1127188
My last three planning related internships have all involved the hiring interviewer knowing me beforehand or having my boss recommend me to them beforehand.
>>
Would you rather have service every 30 minutes directly to the CBD or service every 15 minutes that requires a transfer?
>>
>>1127454
I always prefer more frequent service, but that's just my opinion, idk if the numbers would back that up.
>>
>>1127454
Depend on many factors including:
- Are they timed together, and how frequent would the truck line service be.
- Would the "transfer" option also allow interchange with other bus routes that are not convenient to do so in dorect route
- Condition of transfer station
- At the transfer station, usually will there be free seats.
- Location of transfer station, effect on journey time, and so on. If the station is in the middle and the journey is more than an hour long then transferring would be even less desirable as it would disrupt people resting on bus. Less so if it is split into a main journey of an hour plus a ten minutes short trip.
- Fee structure. Like if the transfer service offer no discount and cost twice as much as a dorect bus then it's obviously undesirable.
>>
>>1127484
* By free seats at transfer station, I mean will seats still be available on buses instead of standing.
Also, one thing that favor transfer quite a lot is if the service that are to transfer into is one that have minimal stop and go dorect into detonation via uncongested high speed roads while direct service is a multi-stop regional service that stop at many points along theway with diversions to catch enough passengers
>>
>>1127099
height limits and even skylines look the best, and the best cities in the world have it. fuck off
>>
>>1117760
>Selfdriving bus
>China
Yep, there is no way this could go disastrously wrong.
>>
>>1127626
>even skylines look the best
How does it feel to have shit taste?
>>
File: tokyo hdr.jpg (1.1 MB, 1920x920)
1.1 MB
1.1 MB JPG
>>1127626
You have irredeemably shit taste.

urbankchoze.blogspot.ca/2015/08/point-of-view-matters-scourge-of.html

If you think height limits even matter, read this.
>>
>>1127633
>>1127642
Yeah, even, limited skylines look the best from pedestrian perspective. I'm not riding a helicopter daily. Bite me
>>
Also, height limits are good for avoiding overly dense places. Not everywhere needs to be new york. Tall buildings also require very good public services, notably sewage and water distribution
>>
>>1127693
Unless if you're telling me that you walk with your head upwards, this makes no sense.
>>1127698
>Tall buildings also require very good public services
Why would you build one where there aren't any of these anyways? The failure to provide public services is a failure of a municipality.
>avoiding overly dense places
Zoning in LA worked great in keeping all those workers in the suburbs, and prices artificially high.

If a place wants to be dense, let it be.


Your points are absurd, you might want to argue something more concrete.
>>
>>1127642
So much for your free market
Planners would still have to limit developers by restricting the urban wall
>>
>>1127726
There are no urban limits in a free market

What are you talking about?
>>
>>1127728
One guy was arguing against height limits because of "let the free market decide"
See >>1127099

Completely disregarding the urban landscape
>>
>>1127702
See, the solution he found was essentially a height limit to the sidewalk front. Aestethically it is a fair compromise
>>
Just had a great idea
How about height minimums?
>>
I just need to bitch to someone who will understand.
>have to use rail to commute every sunday
>what do you know, it's sportsball season
>let's say the station close to my house is station 1
>transit had been closing let's say station 6 every sunday
>rail passes it anyway, stopping the rail at the station but not opening the doors, and kidnapping us until station 7
>at station 7 I have to catch a connection (that I usually get at 6)
>connection retraces back over station 6 and veers off
>today
>for some magical reason they decided to change it in the middle of sportsball season, without telling anyone
>end of the road is now station 5, which does not connect with any other line
>get dumped off in middle of nowhere
>have to walk through sketchy industrial section and follow rail line to make it to a station that has the connection I need
>makes me half an hour late to where I was going

Every day reminds me that the US is a third world country. What civilized city would cripple their own transit line every fucking week for no reason? All the sportsball retards are locked up in the stadium, for what fucking purpose can the train not run? Why? Fucking WHY?

>>1126697
>land is preserved instead of being 1,000 mcmansions
>landmark is added
>probably get great views from the top

I don't see the problem.
>>
>>1127740
combine with parking maximums and a ban on onstreet parking
>>
>>1127740
>mcmansions get removed
>builders are forced to make apartment buildings
I'm not for rules but hey, this could work
>>
>>1127762
At that point, why wouldn't you just call an Uber/Lyft? It's bailed me out of transit related mishaps before.
>>
>>1127765
I came
>>
>>1127740
>bunch of single-story buildings with hugeass spires pop up everywhere
>>
>>1127881
Listen here little shit
Stop finding flaws
>>
File: 1280px-ABnrz_401.jpg (318 KB, 1280x960)
318 KB
318 KB JPG
>>1109637
come to germany if you want 80´s trains
but dont wonder when the 1958 build train comes 2 hours to late because the doors wouldnt open again
>or die in the summer when it has 104F
>or die because your hand gets stuck in the door and you get draged along the tracks
>>
>>1127952
Please let me go to germany as refugee i am from poor country
I am even christian and have a german name
>>
>>1127952
Where do you live? I haven't seen one of those in years
>>
>>1128006
I often ride them on Mannheim-Karlsruhe.

DSO has a full list for the 2017 schedule https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?031,8133730,page=all
>>
>>1126726
Maintenance costs are high becuase especially on higher order transit you have to higher highly skilled techs as well as having everyone be in a union.

Fuel costs aren't that high. Most transit in Ontario especially just refuel at the public works station and it all gets reported to city council as a single fuel bill.

Learn before you post.
>>
>>1127159
Real Ontario fag planner here
>>
>>1128163
What you posted doesn't change the statement.
You state that maintenance is the highest cost, then fuel. Then finally, comes the cost of labor.
Do you even read your own post?
>>
>>1128006
BW we have the most fucked up contracts between the state and the DB
the state wanted it as cheep as possible and the DB is now using up all their old material here.
>>
Anybody have tips on how to not get nervous speaking at a public hearing? (I'm going to speak as a civilian in this case, it's not a work thing)
>>
such a feeling of not living in germany before ww1
>>
>>1128166
How do I get into the field? I hear the planning related uni programs in the province are all trash
>>
>>1128222
Many of our cities' historical districts would look much more comfy if it hadn't been for the allies' bombings in WWII. But many historical landmarks were rebuilt and the opportunity for more advanced urban planning was created.
>>
>>1128214
Write out a few points on a notecard beforehand and practice alone a rough draft of what you want to say. I never did that in undergrad but I've found it very helpful in grad school.

If you're trying to be persuasive I suggest speaking very loudly, mention how your property values would decrease, and cite the constitution, or any amendment will do.
>>
File: yoyogi.jpg (763 KB, 1912x973)
763 KB
763 KB JPG
>>1127642
if anyone cares, I found where this was taken. The station is Yoyoji, near Shinjuku. The photo was taken on the roof of the white building in the left foreground.

Please post moar of these photos. Tokyo was magical to me
>>
>>1128531
Then you really fucked up that opportunity because most of germany looks like shit
>>
>>1128651
Yeah, still much better than the US or Russia though
>>
>>1128676
Not the greatest standards to be held to lel
>>
>>1127740
That's dumb.
Will lead to empty spaces and oversized lots.
High density doesn't make anything automatically good.
>>
>>1127642
>>1127693
>>1127726
Err before I join in the argument, let me supplement that Urban Kchoze link icymi.
Same source:
http://urbankchoze.blogspot.hk/2014/09/european-american-and-japanese.html
http://urbankchoze.blogspot.hk/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
>>
>>1127893
>IMPLYING THATS A FLAW
>>
>>1128881
Difference is that the japanese zooning doesn't create that nice nyc / parisian / any western city pre ww1 urban wall
>>
>>1129050
You must be deluding yourself if you think this.
>>
File: zzOlJ0K.jpg (328 KB, 1200x900)
328 KB
328 KB JPG
>>1129050
>>
>>1124044
Just saw I should feel lucky that I'm not one of 130 people who applied for a 90-day graphic design position at the same transit agency.
>>
>>1129283
Thanks for proving me right
>>
>>1129468
Now I know what you're talking about

You probably watched and believed that bullshit video on "how to make cities great"

It's pointless to argue with you.
>>
>>1129528
Japanese cities just do not create an even urban wall, iit doesn't matter wether you think they're superior or not

Mobility wise japan is the best but astethics wise 19th century western cities are way ahead
>>
>>1129593
>even urban wall
boring and a result of statist planning practice


The aesthetic of Tokyo is far superior to that of Vienna or Paris
>>
>>1129598
No m8 I live in Tokyo and I fucking hate the look of the city. Shit's constantly, needlessly hideous.

At least bury the wires how hard is that to do
>>
>>1129607
i agree the wires are an hideous spot, hide that shit underground.

also, paris's layout is far superior to tokyo's.
>>
>>1129598
>boring and a result of statist planning practice
They just said what could be done and the people built it, it was private enterprise

And it looks better anyway
>>
>>1129598
>The aesthetic of Tokyo is far superior to that of Vienna or Paris
Ahahahahahhahhahahahaha

Pffff ooooohhohohhahhaaaaaaaha
*breath in*

HAHAHHAAHHHAHAHAHAH
>>
File: blank wallscape in paris.jpg (1.07 MB, 1200x800)
1.07 MB
1.07 MB JPG
>>1129701
>>
File: japanese urban wall.jpg (537 KB, 1719x1286)
537 KB
537 KB JPG
versus
>>
>>1129838
>>1129839
>Take a plain Parisian street
>Compare it to a top 5% street in Tokyo

Mate fuck off, most of the streets in Tokyo are grey industrial hellscapes, without any sense of amenability utterly obliterated by the 70's and 80's boom economy.
The average street in the suburbs in Tokyo is basically a mess of cheap, ugly plastic-facaded residential units, a mess of wires all over the place, and the occasional decrepit store selling showerheads or some bullshit that no one really wants. The picture you've shown is an actual market street which is seriously rare, with one short stretch of those every 2kms or so.

God fuck Tokyo, at least smaller Japanese cities are filled with and worshipped by a seething hive of autists.
>>
File: 42443099_m.jpg (315 KB, 559x600)
315 KB
315 KB JPG
>>1129889
*are not filled with seething autists
>>
>>1127630
It couldn't be any worse than the driving that occurs there now, could it?
>>
Are unmanned cars in the style of PRT the future?
>>
>>1129892
Cars are the past
>>
>>1129892
> unmanned cars PRT
Imo a change in the meaning/paradigm of PRT from those public guided pods to autonomous vehicle lane (ie those autonomous vehicle highways, or even inductive charging roads for BEV) would be akin to from guided bus to modern BRT. Sufficient level of rapid transit standard with dedicated lanes, signal prioritization (BRT)/ traffic synchronization (autonomous cars), occasional grade separation. Unmanned vehicles aren't compatible with autonomous/driverless vehicles though, while BRT systems can accomodate both articulated and ordinary buses.
Still they aren't universal transport solution, let alone mass transit for the former. Perceivably there's will be unmanned bus lanes .
>>
>>1129914
> * Unmanned/driverless vehicles may not be compatible with autonomous/driverless vehicles though
>>
>>1129914
>>1129915
> * Unmanned/driverless vehicles may not be compatible with autonomous / self-driving vehicles though
Fuck.
You get my point on shared use / mixed traffic among different autonomous levels.
>>
>>1129839
This one's just cleaner and more active. Combined with the nitpicking it looks better*

*On this biased comparison
>>
>>1129892
No they are not

>>1129896
This
>>
Read this

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/why-you-hate-contemporary-architecture
>>
>>1129992
Just ignore the call for a communist revolution at the end by the way
>>
File: radiator building.jpg (498 KB, 768x1024)
498 KB
498 KB JPG
>>1129992
>We must break out of the prison and destroy the economic system.
discarded

absolutely discarded
>>
>>1130008
I told you to ignore it you bastard
>>
>>1129838
>>1129839
Ain't gonna be any cherries left in the pie by the time we're done.
>>
>>1111602
The wave of infill development creeps ever closer to this lot, and a decision on what to do with it is no closer to being resolved. Less than a block away, an old supplier of masonry is being replaced by a six story apartment building with ground level retail.
>>
>>1129992
>polling suggests that devotees of contemporary architecture are overwhelmingly in the minority: aside from monuments, few of the public’s favorite structures are from the postwar period. (When the results of the poll were released, architects harrumphed that it didn’t “reflect expert judgment” but merely people’s “emotions,” a distinction that rather proves the entire point.)
kek
>>
>>1130736
Fuck parking lots
Save ye olde station
>>
>>1125591
I hate surface lots so goddamn much
>>
>>1128222
I recently went to Berlin and it was so ugly of a city I could have sworn I was back in America

Trashy modern architecture/skyscrapers
highways everywhere
And thoroughly infested with speeding cars
>>
>>1130894
it is still occupied
>>
>>1130894
>>
>>1130930
Not that accurate, all lf thede cities are pretty comfy to walk on

Idk about madrid actually, but it prolly is too
>>
>>1130942
It really isn't. Madrid is almost like a latin american city.
>>
>>1131034
>Madrid is almost like a latin american city
Are we talking about the city or its population?
>>
File: RueMontorgueil.jpg (1.63 MB, 1920x1280)
1.63 MB
1.63 MB JPG
>>1129838
>>1129839
>cherrypicking that hard.

weebs pls go
>>
>>1131100
both.
>>
>>1131034
madrid a shit
>>
This peer city identification tool is pretty neat. It clusters similar American cities together so you can compare them.
https://www.chicagofed.org/region/community-development/data/pcit
>>
>>1126726
>cost of maintenance
What do you think maintenance require, that's right labor, which is an expense.
>>
>>1131669
You mean skilled labour, which is expensive. Basic labour is cheap as fuck, even more so in areas like the south western US.
>>
>>1131720
So? It's still labor dummie
>>
Who here /citiesskylines/
>>
>>1130942
I was in Madrid this summer and I didn't find it to be the most pedestrian friendly city, especially not Gran Via but thankfully they are going to expand the sidewalk and use what's left over for busses and taxis. Still better than any Amerishit city ofc and the city is full of beautiful landmarks and I like the local lifestyle

Overall I give it a 7.5/10
>>
>>1131787
Shit game, Sim City 4 still best city sim. Not the focus of the thread anyways.
>>
>>1131822
I use it to screw around with urban planning.

So far, my prejudice towards pedestrians, mixed use zoning, and mid-rise construction has proved correct.
>>
>>1131797
Did yoy go to barcelona too? I was wondering how to superquadras thing was going
>>
>>1110050
Everything has to be cost effective. And to the public representatives or politicians, also incorporate a lot more things to consider, and to the later, prestige needs to outweight any risk.

the first underground rail of London (and the world) let to forrington, throu a poor neighborhood, which was just demolished, without compensation. Not even anything like a public hearing.

There's few places today, where it is urgently needed. A lot of places consider it to reduces trafic on streets, or easy of travel or something like that. You don't have cities where transport is near impossible. London was that before the first tube. There was a considerable amount of poors that hadn't been in the country side. And traffic in London WAS worse than it is today.

i studied the Scandinavian methods of planning public transportation, and i can't describe how complicated every thing has become. And not due to laws, just due to the society and requirements. They need proof that it will pay to build it. Not "just" that it'll easy the lives of thousands.
>>
>>1131989
It's going well, people have pretty much accepted it and the ones still complaining have been eternally BTFO by reality because there has obv been no traffic collapse and the new pedestrian space is being intensely used by people

work is now beginning on another superilla (the term in spanish would be "supermanzana", 'cuadra' as a word for block is only used in latin america) in the city center, and it seems that there's much less opposition this time. We'll likely get the usual NIMBYs, but after the success of the first one their arguments will be very weak.

If everything goes well in a few years the project will be implemented all over the city. The only thing that could stand in the way of that is the 2019 election, but I wouldn't expect major surprises. Polls show that the governing party would likely get a slightly better result. They're doing good job with the city, no doubt one of the best municipal government. In a few months we'll get word on the REEEEEEtram, so we'll see how that works out, but there's a good chance it could be approved, too, in which case I'll instantly cum buckets.
>>
>>1132144
Wow, nice summary. Thank you my man. I hope for much sucess to barcelona, the city was after all a pioneer of 19th century urban planning and this project shows itself on the vanguard of the 21st century as well.

And most importantly that it teaches other cities to do the same
>>
File: muralla_bcn_1.png (393 KB, 388x550)
393 KB
393 KB PNG
>>1132187
Barcelona's historical pioneering in urbanism has been greatly exaggerated. This is a city that tore down its walls in the mid-19th century. There are even photographs that show the city walls, pic related.

Also the famous Cerdà grid plan was staunchly opposed by Barcelona back in the day because a grid layout was considered "colonial", and the plan was imposed by the central government for just that reason, rejecting a more Paris-style approach of large boulevards presented by some other guy (don't remember who it was). It was just that eventually we learned that a grid works better, and that the Cerdà plan responds much better to modern needs than boulevards and small streets. And still, the "superilla" concept kind of goes in the direction of the boulevard-plan in that it establishes "primary" and "secondary" streets, traffic-wise that is, although it works even better since all streets are the same size and so the secondary streets are much larger and primary streets are much smaller than they would be.

Barcelona has rarely if ever been a pioneering city in urbanism, I don't know where that myth stems from. Barcelona is running quite late in most matters of modern urbanism. The "superillas" are just a big step to try and catch up with what other cities have been doing for the last 20-30 years.
>>
File: muralla_bcn_2.png (531 KB, 708x550)
531 KB
531 KB PNG
more photographs of barcelona city walls
>>
File: muralla_bcn_3.png (629 KB, 800x386)
629 KB
629 KB PNG
>>
File: muralla_bcn_4.png (733 KB, 717x550)
733 KB
733 KB PNG
>>
File: muralla_bcn_5.png (765 KB, 754x549)
765 KB
765 KB PNG
That's all.
>>
File: 1507053950165.jpg (56 KB, 645x773)
56 KB
56 KB JPG
>>1129992
Couldn't be arsed, but from the pictures and a few keywords alone I can already tell that they're wildly mixing up postmodernism, deconstructivism, brutalism and various smaller postmodern styles like blobitecture - which are admittedly god awful for the most part - purely to make a point for excessively ornate, cheesy classical architecture with absolutely zero consideration for cost and maintenance.
>>
>>1132139
>They need proof that it will pay to build it. Not "just" that it'll easy the lives of thousands.
I feel like these sentences are missing a few words that would help me understand them better.
>>
>>1129992
>>1132228
I did read it, and I noticed that, too. they hold up examples of lower-case-m-modern bulidings that they hate, most of which sucked but a few I thought were cool; then they contrast them with hideously gauche, baroque, gilded, busy, infinitely patterned old buildings and say: THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK IS GOOD. EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS IS GOOD. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS YOU ARE A SNOB ACADEMIC WHO HATES REGULAR PEOPLE QUIT OPPRESSING ME WITH YOUR BUILDINGS I WAS BORN IN LE WRONG GENERATION REEEEEEEEE
>>
File: Joe_Fresh.jpg (512 KB, 1200x800)
512 KB
512 KB JPG
>>1132240
Ironically almost all the buildings they've quoted as good looking have been built by filthy rich monarchs, oligarchs or religious institutions that exploited the common man.

On another note it's no wonder that everything went to shit with late modernism, postmodernism and all the other crap that followed, because there really was nowhere else to do after the flawless purity and simplicity at the height of modernism.
>>
>>1132244
>Ironically almost all the buildings they've quoted as good looking have been built by filthy rich monarchs, oligarchs or religious institutions that exploited the common man.
pretty much

>On another note it's no wonder that everything went to shit with late modernism, postmodernism and all the other crap that followed, because there really was nowhere else to do after the flawless purity and simplicity at the height of modernism.
pretty much
>>
>>1132244
>filthy rich monarchs, oligarchs or religious institutions that exploited the common man.
The common man was made to be explored
>>
>>1132228
>Couldn't be arsed, but
the MODERNIST mind everyone...
he is raised from BIRTH to BLIND HIMSELF of all that opposes him...
as a child he must stay FOR HOURS appreciating the """art""" of CRIMINALS such as courbusier and niemeyer... the normal human being would be AFRAID to see into such mind

he is by adulthood HOPELESS and represents a danger TO ALL of society
>>
>>1132213
interesting, it seems like i fell for the meme.

I got it exactly from seeing praise for Cerdà's plan, which supposedly made it into one of the most organized of the big cities of europe. It is probably where the idea came from. And to be honest, it still does seem to me like it was good foward thinking, even if the execution was flawed. I must say that i like barcelona's octogonal blocks much more than paris.

But I am not nearly well informed enough on the city, thank you very much for the info, especially on the wall.
>>
>>1132213
>>1132214
>his city doesn't have a wall

I can think of multiple occasions in which a wall would have helped my city.
>>
>>1132271
you could have jumped from it for starters
>>
>>1132259
>The common man was made to be explored
how many men have you explored, then?
>>
>>1132272
status:
[ ] not told
[x] told
>>
>>1132282
None, i am common
>>
>>1132271
I can think of several communities in my metro who would love one to keep brown people out.
>>
I'm digging this
>>
>>1132320
I'm from Charlottesville.

We have the opposite issue.
>>
alright /upg/
i have the oportunity to influence the development of an empty 100m x 100m lot 10 minutes drive from the city center of a 300k people city

here is the catch: i live on a developing / third world country
what would you do with full creative freedom and a lot this size?
>>
question please answer
where do people park their cars in tokyo usually?
>>
>>1132425
People are required by law to own their own parking space and show proof of that before they can own a car in Tokyo
>>
>>1132435
alright
are new buildings generally sold with parking space?
>>
>>1132441
I think a lot of people have to rent a space at a separate building.

You simply have to show that you own one, somewhere in Tokyo.
>>
File: maxresdefault.jpg (160 KB, 1920x1080)
160 KB
160 KB JPG
>>1127952
You think that's old?

We've got a whole fleet of trains build in the 60's still in service
>>
>>1132418
slightly smaller version of Kowloon walled city
>>
>>1132470
Either this or a small abortion/sterilization/birth control hut
>>
>>1132323
[Hunger Games intensify]
>>
>>1132470
I'm thinking of making german style blocks all around the block, and making underground parking lots which will be rented
>>
>>1132466
fuck me, why does american subways keep their tasteless designs? there's nothing more dystopian than a NYC metro car.
>>
>>1132662
Tell me more about your third world country, anon. How dense is the area surrounding your lot? Are there transit connections? Are cars common or is it mostly motorbikes and bicycles? Is this a slum area or a middle/upper class area? Primarily residential? Commercial? Mixed use?
>>
>>1132692
It is not very dense, but there are a number of apartments right in front of it.

It is near two very good traffic roads with bus stops and 5 minutes bus ride from the most important terminal

Cars are common, much more than two wheel vehicles. It is very predominantely residential, but there are no restrictions to commercial use in the region. They just aren't common.

It is a lower middle class region where the houses and apartments are not very fancy but livable.

I would post it on google maps but the city has an ownership database and i'd get doxxed
>>
I quite like the way the old berlin blocks are organized. I also like the way their balconies are usually not outside of the buildind like a drawer
>>
>>1132713
This is /n/, not /b/. No one's gonna dox you.
>>
>>1132746
I prefer not to risk it anyway
>>
Why the fuck are old people the biggest NIMBYs of all? They're going to die in like two days, why the fuck do they think their opinion is relevant
>>
>>1132861
What else are they going to concentrate on.

These are people whose world has been getting progressively smaller and smaller, until there's very little left outside of their lawn.
>>
>>1132939
>>1132939
>>1132939
>>1132939
New thread
>>
what could India do for her urban planning needs?
>>
>>1134204
ask on the new thread
>>
>>1132265
BaconCritic, take your meds




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.