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/BRT/ Bike Racing and Training -- Comfy road to dream of riding in the winter edition

Previous thread (currently on auto-sage): >>1113676

IN THIS THREAD, we discuss:
* Training for bike racing (road, MTB, track)
* Bike racing tactics and strategy
* Bike handling skills relating to racing (pacelining, maneuvering within the pack, blocking, when to attack, etc)
* Your races
* Pro races
* Equipment choices (including power meters, heart rate monitors, etc)
* Anything and everything relating to bicycle racing and training

When discussing power, post W/kg (watts per kilogram), not just watts.

If you're new to bike racing and need to get started, you can start with The Cyclists Training Bible (aka CTB); there's a copy of 3rd Edition online you can peruse:
http://www.lronman.ru/docs/CyclistBible3.pdf (please buy a copy if you like it).

If you're interested in Power Meters for your bike, here's a good article that covers most of the choices available on the market:

If you're interested in doing some reading on basic race tactics and strategy, you can check out the following two books:
"Racing Tactics for Cyclists" by Thomas Prehn
"Reading the Race" by Jamie Smith and Chris Horner

Ask questions, and share your knowledge, expertise, and experience; everyone interested in training to be a better cyclist are welcome.


A gentle reminder:
This thread has existed in one incarnation or another for over a year.
Moderators clearly think it belongs on /n/.
Complaining about this thread only makes you look like an idiot. Don't waste your time.
Also, complaining about threads may be against site rules. Don't waste your time.
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Reminder to report and ignore the running poster
Reminder to report and ignore /sp/ threads
Agreed. Sage and report all off-topic threads (like this one).
Finally got the first big snow/ice of the year. Lots of trainer time from now on, but I’m glad that winter is actually here. The warm weather here in northern North America was making me uncomfortable

Fuck off, foamers
Okay, realistically how much can a direct drive turbo trainer supplement training.

Between school and how soon it gets dark at the moment, training on the roads between Monday and Friday is completely out of the question but maybe it would be possible to do an hour of HIIT a few times a week between Saturday and Sunday?

Anyone ever try This? Thoughts?
It can replace training, really. Get a fan too so you stay cool.
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past week i did a recovery/adaptation week finishing build 2 period. had a minor crash on a Z2 ride on friday, had tu re align the handlebar with the fork, nothing else.

on sunday i did 110k ride with some climbs, after this i had a little pain on my right shoulder.
monday rest day i did some bmx cruising to get some blood flowing + some pull ups and push ups, nothing extreme,no pain or anything after.
today tuesday i do 2 hour ride (warm up, Z2, sprints each 5 minutes, cool down) and after this iagain i have a pain in my right shoulder and it extends to my arm, passes after 3 hours aprox..

but im worried. im scared some minor change in the handlebar alignment or something is causing this.. anything i can do? or maybe strech better? something i could check? i have a 5 hour ride on friday and dont want to feel like shit just cause one arm., thaaaaaaaanks(and sorry for my crappy english)
I'd say it was more likely the crash that hurt your arm, but it doesn't hurt to take the bike to lbs to see if anything is off
So some cager hit me today. Can I file a claim for a new bike on their insurance?

I'm in Seattle if it makes a difference.
Hello fellow Seattlite! Look up Matthew D. Dubin.
perfectly fine, imo. i do it. CX bikes rule.
I ride around 120 miles on the weekend and run 4 week days for 24-30 miles. Running gets my heart rate going quicker and I'm metabolizing oxygen sooner but I'm also working at an anaerobic state sooner.
My training schedule is 200 mi/wk ridden with 7500 ft/wk climbed.

What's your training schedule looking like?
400 kilometres every week, 4000 metre combined climb. I'm training for a bike trip from Georgia to Pennsylvania via Appalachia.

I do 25 kilometres of commuting every day, then a big weekend route of about 120 kilometres. Plus cycling in the gym at lunch with my workouts.
500 miles with 500-800ft climbing total
About 775 km a week, no climb.

>tfw live in the Netherlands
Impressive! That's a lot of climbing, mate!

Do you live in a particularly flat area or are you training for TTs?

I'm sorry to hear you don't live near any climbs.
>t. forcing myself to climb a ton since most crits/road races in the area are climb-intensive as fuck.

I've found that it is far too easy to lose much more time climbing than is possible to make up on the flats. Also I'm starting really love descending.
>set up a trainer for the first time after summer
>old fan won't start
>no time to go get a new one
>decide to ride once without a fan
>ride for an hour
>the small towel I had was so soaked that is was dripping with sweat
>literal puddles on the trainer mat
Get a fan. As for what comes trainers as anon already said they can replace training outside.
get an actual box fan too, not just a lil guy

I bought two little travel fans and taped them to the bars soon after turbo training. I don't notice the heat /head sweat so much anymore and it's comfortable but anything I am wearing is still fucking drenched by the end of it. On anything anaerobic it makes me feel like shit for hours afterwards and I am very noticeably dehydrated. Must get big fan.

Anything beats the no fan days though. Hard to keep the eyes open with the amount streaming into them.
Any anaerobic efforts suck ass on the trainer... sprinting especially, forget it. No fan days you're losing as much weight from the sweat as the weight you're losing from the workout hah
>tfw bottom bracket has been disintegrating since september
>around 28,000 miles total on thatshit, maybe a dozen bad weather rides and replaced bb bearings every 3-5 months (never let the bearings get rough)
>won't get team bike until like february/march

May have to buy a walmart bike for the rest of the winter
what kind of meme bottom bracket do you need that costs much more than a wallmart bike?
the actual bottom bracket, not the bearings. It's a trek frame with bb90. Shit uses press fit bearings and the bottom bracket is carbon fiber so even changing the bearings wears the frame out over time, it's fucking retarded and happened to my old frame as well. The guys I bought it from insisted it was because I didn't change the bearings enough. This frame I changed the bearings at an autistically high frequency (like every 3-5months, before they even got slightly rough) and it's happened again after just 3000ish more miles than the other frame did.
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god that is awful
Were both of you bikes Trek?
yup lol, had a friend it happened to as well. Kinda bs that is not warranty-able
Next bike NOT going to be Trek lads

eh who am I kidding, I don't want a memescialized
I was eyeing up a project one Trek. Suddenly doesn't seem nearly as attractive.
You guys are so uneducated, have you never seen any pro teams breakfast before a race? Most teams have a dry breakfast before the hot one. And then most teams will have a pre race meal as well. Not to mention sky loves juicing and getting nutrients that way. Then they might snack on fruit at the start line.
There's plenty of other options
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le beet juice fase

I have a Trek with BB86. Should I expect this in my future?
When is it from? Supposedly (I mean, according to a guy who sells these things for a living) they fixed that issues in more recent models.

But idk, around 25k miles happened to both of mine, my friend who had the same issue was ~18k miles

2014. No problems yet. Got it second hand tho.
interesting, could be bb90 only maybe. good luck either way
lemme justs ave this from paeg 156
shit winter weather on tap
>extended forecast tomorrow-jan 3
>every day high of <25f
>5 snow days
good thing i got a couple of easy weeks coming ...
I'm planning on riding outside this weekend. Breddy stoked. Also <25f. Where are you at, bro?
midwest lol, there's been a lot of 25-35F days, lucky with plenty of upper 30s and some 40s into Dec but that is baout to run out. Luckily it's really just 2-3 weeks until it starts to trend warmer. Basically in 4 weeks from now, the worst is over
I'd be glad for a sunrise and there a people who are complaining about few days of snow.
>place with no sunrise
>bike race training
pick one
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Why not both?
Is there races in these areas? Where are you from? Norway or like northern Alaska? Or some shit?
Finland. We have some smaller races locally. Though most of the races are in southern Finland which is the reason I don't actually get to race that much because traveling 10 hours one way for one race just doesn't make much sense.

This year though the national champs happened to be quite close to where I am.
pussy boi, i'm in Minnesota, suck it up

what town? oulu? saariselka or some shit?
hello bros. i really really really need your help here guys as im clueless on how to proceed.

>live in a place located in the southern hemisphere where you can ride all year long if you want. summer has just begun.

>past year was the first year i followed a real planned training (using the CTB), gave good results. peak has passed and planned season ends now.

>im part of a new local club. they are gonna start training again in april. also following a CTB based plan, with a long base period, etc- dual peak program aimmed to peak at the latter part of the year. (to participate in local races)

>prior to this season i had been training randomly for a long time. this has my brain a little bit fried with training and i know i need a rest.

so those are the facts, tried to keep em as minimal as possible. basically i have free from jan to march. and here is where i get filled with doubts.

1- is it ok if i totally stop road bike riding for this period? i know the logic is to rest off season, but as a newbie im scared ill loose all my power (despite peak has passed im at a good shape now).

2- should i do something special to not loose all my road bike fitness during this 3 month period?

3-i was planning on just doing street bmx this period. its the other thing i like (and suck atm), but consists mainly of cruising around, jumping here and there. Also will be doing some arm work just to keep the body moving. i need some sport obviously. any opinions on this? should i look for another sport? is this a good idea?

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4- finally. the cycling club im in has their training plan already done and it doesnt include weight's. (my plan is to base my training on the groupal plan wich is a CTB classic training plan and change it to my needs with the knowledge i have). but im clueless on weights. and i was thinking on starting with them this year. yes i know CTB has a section about them that i need to read it again. im asking here cause for sure you guys know when is the best time to start with them and could give me some lights on how to make em compatible with my next year plan. experince is treasured. specially when mixing all the variables i just stated.

i know im asking for a lot of stuff, but any opinion, tip, whatever would be greatly apreciated. i dont know where else to ask (any bike forum i should check?). thanks and sorry if my english aint the best quaility. hope everyone has a good year ending and cool next year. peace
tiny bump so this doesnt get buried.
hope someone can help me and give me their thoughts,thanks
anyone? plox
whats up with the ones that actually train here? i remember you guys used to be a lot, discussing training stuff. now its just me bumping hah :(
So we should probably think forward (end of this season and next season) since this one already has begun

>can ride all year long if you want
Good. This means you can train during the off season without mind-fucking yourself.

>they are gonna start training again in april.
Depending on your fatigue level you should take a week or two easy easy (like 20% of wkly training load you have averaged all season) and then build up in easy miles to acclimate to the bike before your team starts training.

> this has my brain a little bit fried with training and i know i need a rest.
Do 2 weeks easy before you start training for your teams training.

>stop road bike riding for this period
Recommended, if you have a mountain bike do your bit of riding over the next 2 weeks easy on that on some trails. If you know you can run without injury throw in some EASY short runs.

A normal off season would be around 4-12 weeks depending on your level, but you probably don't need this and it's too late to take a long off season now that you need to start training for your training.

>3 month period
Don't take 3 months off right now, your off season should come after the last important races of the season (sometimes there will be 1 or 2 races done for fun at the start of your offseason)

DO take 2 weeks very easy to make sure you are completely recovered for training for training.

>-i was planning on just doing street bmx this period
That is fine, you can even do this into your training for training.

Depending on your level of conditioning/experience you will need 2-3 rest days a week during your training for training (less experience needs more rest in base/easy periods, more experience/conditioning needs much less) and you can bmx/mtb or whatever you want on these days (as long as it's even easier than your easy training for training)

> but im clueless on weights
I don't recommend weights to start as you're going into training for training. You should start them next year at the
begginning of your off 4-16 week off season and keep it up through training for training and scale down to once a week or less (or not at all, save legs for on-bike workouts).

You SHOULD implement a mild core and stretching routine done daily. For stretching hamstrings, glutes, quads, inner thigh and calves should be stretched. Takes about 8-10 minutes total for stretching. Then a core routine, planks and glute bridges (learn to engage the glutes) are a good place to start. Keep the planks easy for the first week to avoid soreness and then start building up in hold time every 3 days

important tl;dr

>take 2 weeks easy to ensure complete recovery, fuck around on your bmx or whatever for the next 2 wks
>take the next months leading up to your team's training riding mainly moderate and slightly long, make sure you are taking 1-3 recovery days per week until the team's training starts. Be completely recovered at the start of your teams training
>don't start weights yet, but do start a short core and stretching routine done daily
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hello there! thanks for your time and extensive reply mister. big thanks.

i just got a little doubt on your advice, maybe cause i was not completly clear with the info.

my off season can start now. all major goals of past season happened during past december. next season will be april-december 2018.

my team training starts with base training and does it in 3 phases of roughly a month each. so we start easy.

with this info, would you still rec me training for training so far ahead? because for what i understood, youre telling me to start training for training in 2 weeks, this would be jan-week 3.

from jan week 3 to april that would be 10 weeks of training for training. isnt that too much?
sorry again if im slow, just want to confirm as it sounds of a lot.

thats my main doubt.. cause i was thinking having jan - feb as off season, with weights and bmx and march as a training for training with easy road bike+weights.. please correct me / confirm me. and a million thanks, if anyone else wants to add anything youre more than wellcomed :)
tomorrow i have time and ill do research on core and streching routines. thanks!
Does racing start in april or is it just like when people start getting out and training?

If you are racing in April you should start now, but if your first race is in like june then you're good for a couple more weeks.

8wks of base before a team camp or whatever in April would be good, but you can do 4 or 6 weeks as well, it also depends on what types of races you are going to be doing as well
hello there! it seems i suck on explaining myself. one last try. but thanks a lot for trying to help me, i really need confirmation that my pan has logic.

right now: im holding a perfomance peak but there is no reason to cotinue doing it. maybe last friendly race on saturday and thats it.

planned training with team consists in:

April-June: Base training
July August: Build
September- mid oct: Peak-Race B
mid Oct-Nov: recovery
Dec-Jan: Peak- Race A

with that scenario i was planning on taking off jan- mid march,and start preparation there to start base training with the team on april.
i should start weights in some point here,but not sure when.

does that make more sense? is it ok then to be jan-.feb completly off a road bike? (and do bmx as planned?)

april: when we start training. september/oct when we start racing.

races are gonna be 100km races, some with heavy climbs :)

thanks! again,anyone that can confirm that what im doing has logic or if i should or shouldnt do something, please let me know, i truly apreciate it. my team fellows dont care about resting now and most are just gonna continue riding till base starts in april.. thing that scares me a bit.. but they also dont question the training program.. thing that i do. tbut i need helo from someone with more experience, hanks!
>september/oct when we start racing.
oh shit, yeah dude. You are goods to take your offseason now, even like 2 months like you wanted. I thought you were saying you started racing in April for some reason

Yeah like 2-4 weeks would be good to get in some base before doing base with your team though for sure.
thanks mate, and when during this 8 week off season should i start with weights? :D :D :D

anyone else want to iluminate me with tips? would be killer.
all the info is this post: >>1139469
and added/clearer details here >>1141394

Do you have any tips on improving recovery time after long rides?

I'm getting back into cycling. If I go hard for two days in a row, I'm still not recovered after 24 hours. I went to do another big ride and ended up turning around my legs were so weak

I've plugged my genome into athletigen and I've got some garbage genes for athleticism. Fast to catabolize muscle, slow to recover, slow to build strength. I've got some decent endurance genes but apparently need 48+ hour downtime after a big ride.

Anyways, anything you've found to help? Not opposed to talking strange supplements
Okay, the athletigen results are less grim than I thought. However I get a shit gene for lactate threshold. I'll be googling this, but if anyone has a tip I'm listening
Sorry for asking in this thread but here goes.

I have a bike from bikes direct and it needs assembling. Which should I take it to?

Local place
>more expensive
>guys there know their shit
>might take longer?

Performance Bike
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recently learned that big lloydy does the commentary for the giro on eurosport! top lad

also, Sused to race for rapha and won the Rás (biggest road race in Ireland)
Is this results from a fitness study thing, or a DNA test? Looks handy.

Matt Stephens has been doing it for a while, too.
Assemble it yourself, you'll have to learn eventually
Yes it's athletigen. You can plug 23 and Me genome data into it. It's not very thorough. Promthease has more but it's a big mess
Sleep a lot, eat protein/eat well

The more you ride and the more fit you are the better your body will recover. You might just have to be patient for now. Ignore your genetic stuff for now and just work on building it back up.
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This coming season will be my second- kind of dropped cycling for a few months halfway through road season last year, so I only have about 6 or 7 road races/ crits under my belt, but I did win the last 4/5 race I did in the spring before I took a break. Just bought a power meter and definitely plan on structuring my training better. Moving to a new town later this month, so I'm hoping to find a team to train/race with (was on my college's team last year). Training series starts next month which'll be good. /personal blog

Anyways, I have a set of new i9 hubs, and want to build my own wheels using them. I already own a set of older i9 hubs laced to Stan's 340 rims, so as a climbing/training wheel they are great. Obviously some deeper rims would make the most sense so I have the option for races, but what depth should I look for? There are some pretty well reviewed 30mm deep alloy rims that would be much easier on the wallet than carbon, but would that even make a difference vs the 22mm deep 340s I already have?
Lets talk about base training.

do you believe in it? do you do months of base training?

do you think its obsolete? that low intensity endurance rides have their part during training but that a specific period of only these kind of rides makes no sense?

ive done a couple of seasons based on the CTB and i reached a similar level. i know i can get better.

researching ive came across a lot of places that say traditional base training is obsolete.
this link explains it ina good short way:
> https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/the-myth-of-winter-base-training-for-cyclists/

anyway.. im doubting my training plan is the best..but i dont know where to get info to make a more updated new plan.

any books or something i should be checking to build a more modern training plan than the CTB kind?

i dont want to pay a training coach as i have time to reasearch and not so much money :(
but still i may be about to hire one..any advice on things i should ask him to know hes good and not just selling me some crappy plan?

does no one care abut training in this board anymore?
should i be posting somewhere else? point me to best forum r whatever to discuss training stuff , thonks!
>traditional base training is obsolete.
that's retarded lol
nope bro, no one really cares about training here, just buying stuff or complaining aout cagers/bait.
best case scenarios are comments like >>1144250
I wish it were obsolete, i don't have the fucking time for that shit

I have heard sweet spot training as a viable alternative. I've used it, it's pretty good.

I do but 4chan is ultimately for shitposting unfortunately. I'll try to be helpful as much as I can. /r/velo is good for discussion, but it IS reddit and the people can be a bit annoying with how autistic they are, so prepare to get stifled/downvoted.
>it IS reddit and the people can be a bit annoying with how autistic they are, so prepare to get stifled/downvoted.

This. Why the FUCK are they so retarded?

/r/velo is primarily cat 4s, and if you don't make it clear that you're a cat 1 before saying anything you'll get downvoted. It's insane.

>made an account randomly
>lurking /r/velo for a few months
>thread about something very simple
>no replies 45 mins later
>decide to comment something that is objectively true and write very simply and short
>leave, come back 4 hours later
>5+ downvotes
>top comment with 15+ upvotes is something over complicating the "issue" and it's like 4 paragraphs long. By a cat 3/4 who always writes really drawn out comments
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The best are the "regulars" that feel the need to comment ON EVERY THREAD. They always suck, too. My eyes almost never stop rolling when I read most comments.
anyone got a full replay of TDU stage 1 in decent quality? only VOD I found was dreadful (http://tiz-cycling.racing/video/tour-down-under-2018-stage-1-full-stage/)
Check /r/peloton or steephill.tv
is there any place on in the internet where its cool to discuss bike training and related without this retardness ?
there has to be a place where there are people that know their shit bur arent autistic net boys.. i hope
hire a coach and talk to them through training peaks/phone/text

that's about it my friend. most forums will be a mix of retardation, old-fashioned methods and a whole lot of lying
>46c on the TDU
I don't think I wanna do this sport anymore
I just signed up for my first race, no team or anything, is it okay to show up in a t shirt and shorts or will everyone be in lycra and shit? 160km
have you ridden 160km before?
yeah my most is like 220km, can hold a little over 2w/kg for several hours
Not that you can't ride 160km in shorts & tshirt, but it's much more comfortable to do it in proper kit, more aero as well, and better for eating food while you ride.

If you show up in shorts & tshirts you're gonna make everyone very nervous to ride close to you. It's a pretty big pho par and for good reasons.

You have a powermeter but no lycra?
>You have a powermeter but no lycra?
Yes, I'm kind of autistic and never wanted to look like a fred
>powermeter but no lycra
This is literally the most fredly thing that i have ever heard
too late buddy
but norms don't know what my powermeter looks like
norms don't know what a fred is either
I like this. Fuck lycra. Do you have any favorite clothing brands for this?
best clothing for dumb insecure autists is cheap drawstring shorts with some stretch in the fabric & thin merino tops
I usually wear a fishing shirt like this
sun protection and feels pretty good
I'm upset by how far people will go to not wear Lycra.. they told me to HTFU in /r/cyclingmasculinity
lol is that a real thing ? surely not
WTF is this section of the thread. Lycra is dope and makes your legs look great

it's comfy and you're an autist retard if you actually think people care how you look
thanks mister, your advice is clear and confirmed some stuff i had read and people had told me on a board. thankssssssss
This. Lycra is super comfy and if you're fit it can even be flattering.

I intentionally get pink cycling shit to trigger people like that. It's a shame that it's hard to find quality men's jerseys in pink or other feminine colors/styles. Or any else cycling products since the people they're marketed to are insecure slightly overweight men in their 40s and 50s that will only buy matte black.
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>I intentionally get pink cycling shit to trigger people like that. It's a shame that it's hard to find quality men's jerseys in pink or other feminine colors/styles. Or any else cycling products since the people they're marketed to are insecure slightly overweight men in their 40s and 50s that will only buy matte black.
This, I always get the cute pink kits with flowers and hearts and wear a skirt for my training rides.... t-take that, insecure freds.
pic related, I also like to wear this style of bloomers.
Please be in London
er wat. i see guys riding in pink kit all the time. it's conventional as fuck because of the gyro and just in general because of pink ralph lauren polos being a dudebro mainstay of 2010
Honestly your doing it right. In my cage yesterday I barely saw guys riding in black kit. Always go floro. And those daylight tail lights people have been buying really fucking work. The guys using the old ones look like idiots... Barely see that shit
Is this funny or too obvious hipster shit?
I like to give em the full nishiki
Not bad, there were pro teams unironically sponsored by mcdicks a few years ago
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Reminds me of pic related
If your name is Peter Sagan, 100% because you have nothing more to learn about bike handling and can afford a setup that has enough resistance for sprints and won't break apart on you.

If you're anyone else, up to 90% of time spent training. Depends how long you can stick with it without getting bored, really. Great way to train without getting your bike painted white by your wife...

Training should be 90% low intensity and 10% High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) with low intensity sessions lasting at least 80 minutes to facilitate the conversion of type IIa muscle fibers to type I muscle fibers. HIIT needs to be done outside to practice maneuvering and general bike handling skills. You can do it on a trail, even if the trail is only half a mile long. I live in the Detroit area, so cops will blame me for being easily murderable if a driver tries to hit me. I had to figure all of this out to be able to train.

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