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tokyo edition

previous thread: >>1132939
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Can you imagine living here, /n/? It's like our own mecca. Everything works, few people drive, you can go anywhere on trains and bikes

And it's bloody massive. Hours and hours of full, first world urban land. Very impressive if you ask me. I plan on going there with the family and use the olympics as the excuse
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supposedly it's still easy to find quiet side streets
>>
Is urban planning the ultimate bugman profession?
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>>1143967
High population density =/= loud nightmare. Beijing is 20m inhabitants yet the city center is quieter than a village, especially in the hutongs
>>
>>1143974
Just had a look at what this term means and i don't think it applies at all.
Care to explain?
>>
>tfw will never live in Tokyo
>have to be an american stuck in caging hell, risking death every time I /n/
FUCK
Or at least my good for nothing ancestors could have stayed in Europe. But nooo, let's go to the new world and doom our progeny to car centric cities. I wish I could get European citizenship at least, blood descendant and all. God this is suffering. There's like five cities that are decent here. I hate it hate it hate it!
>>
Repost so people can see.
>Free urban planning ebooks
http://www.ebook777.com/?s=urban+planning
I'm scared to download them. Does anyone know if these are safe?
>>
>>1144013
Are you in your 20s? Do you have a college degree? You could go and be a dumb gajinn english teacher and live in Japan.
>>
>>1143984
Ignore him. The last person I argued with on /n/ who used "bugman" had an argument that hinged on him denying that the Second Avenue Subway existed. If it's the same person, he's completely impervious to reason.
>>
>>1143984
Sociopathic obsession with systems, numbers, and rationality, insistence on planning everything out for others, punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"


>>1144021
You lost mate.
>>
>>1144055
Numerous voter approved transit projects in the past few years don't care whether or not you believe they exist. People will continue to vote in favor of transit expansion. The only loser here is you, but you can believe whatever you wanna believe, "mate."
>>
>>1143951
Tokyo's FAR limits are holding it back
>>
>>1144069
>People will continue to vote in favor of transit expansion.
Half truth at best. But you'll move the goalposts until you've pigeonholed the argument. Then, "CHECKMATE"

>The only loser here is you
Nope. You are though. Cheers
>>
>>1144015
Look it up on libgen
>>
>>1144055
>Sociopathic obsession with systems, numbers, and rationality, insistence on planning everything out for others, punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"
Well, do you think planning should just be fuck it and leave things to chaos?
>>
>>1144094
>move the goalposts
You mean what you've been doing?
>Transit allows muh nigs to ravage lily white suburbs!
>Oh, transit doesn't meaningfully impact the crime rate? Well, uh, all data is fake! And the perception of transit being unsafe means that no one wants to vote for new projects, that's why there's been no rail expansion recently!
>Oh, there have? Uhhh... You're making it all up! They won't vote for them in the future! I'm not wrong, you're wrong because I say so!

You fucking lost, now get out and let people who aren't completely disconnected from reality discuss urban planning.

>>1144152
He's a /pol/edditor whose conception of urban planning stops at "reimpose racial segregation." And data and rationality are for Jews, or something.
>>
>>1144055
>punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"
You can live in bumfuck nowhere any way you want for all I care, but if you wanna enjoy the benefits of cities you have to adhere to the rules of the cities, otherwise they don't fucking work.
>>
>>1143954
>this post
all of my mein neger
>>
>>1144013
I know this feel too well
Except my ancestors came to the third world instead. At least the bastards got free land.
>>
>>1144192
>if you wanna enjoy the benefits of cities you have to adhere to the rules of the cities

You think whoever sets those rules will do a good, fair job and it won't become a graft system for control and gibmedats.

You're a complete sociopath. A gullible idiot too.

Lick my taint
>>
>>1144362
If you're arguing for the liberalization of zoning restrictions that cater exclusively to the interests of NIMBY homeowners, I couldn't possibly agree more, despite you having proven yourself to be an utter mongoloid previously. Mixed use midrise or higher needs to be legal pretty much everywhere.

"Free" parking provided by the city needs to go away, too. Subsidized storage of private property on public land is absurd.
>>
>>1144372
>you having proven yourself to be an utter mongoloid previously.

That's an ad hominem attack. You lose.
>>
>>1144377
>You're a complete sociopath. A gullible idiot too.
Irony is just totally lost on you huh
>>
>>1144378
That's not an ad hom attack, because it's true.
>>
>>1144380
The fact that your "argument" has devolved into splitting hairs over what constitutes an ad hominem suggests that my assessment of you as an "utter mongoloid" is also true.
>>
Referring to a logical fallacy by name is the biggest obnoxious brainlet move in existence
>>
How hard is it to immigrate there from Canada?
>>
>>1144386
>>1144388
You're mad because I know the rules and I won.
>>
>>1144055
You could say basically all fields of study are bugmen study by that logic

>punisishing those who don’t adhere to their plan/“logic”

Why do I have the suspicion that you want to punish remove ‘degenerates l’ who don’t adhere to your plan/“logic”?

It’s the same fundamental desire, these people are degenerates that need to be trained and taught. They are blinded by their need for immediate gratification, selfishness, and laziness. These people are in fact bugmen, they have no concept of human connection, sacrifice, community, or work ethic
>>
>>1144391
Yeah okay buddy. You sure showed us. Please please please go win somewhere else and leave us alone, we're not able to deal with your blistering debating ability.
>>
Is anyone following the Fort Lawton development debate? I know there's some /Seattle/ in here.
For those unfamiliar with the situation:
>federal govt offering a decommissioned army base (34 acres) for free to the city if they use the land for affordable housing
>seattle has a severe affordable housing shortage
>army base abuts a large park and an expensive SFH neighborhood and is close to downtown (currently no frequent all day bus route though)
>city proposes just 238 units on the property (see pic related)
>neighborhood NIMBYs want the city to turn down free land and build a dog park or absorb the base into the adjacent gigantic park (534 acres) instead of building housing

More info:
https://www.thestranger.com/news/2017/12/14/25630833/could-wealthy-neighbors-kill-seattles-plan-to-build-affordable-housing-in-magnolia-again

(Yeah, a lot of what The Stranger prints is absolute trash, but they're pretty good on urbanist issues)
>>
>>1144413
I also haven't got a clue what the difference between a "townhome" and a "rowhome" is.
>>
>>1144414
>a terraced or terrace house (UK) or townhouse (US)[1] exhibits a style of medium-density housing that originated in Europe in the 16th century, where a row of identical or mirror-image houses share side walls. They are also known in some areas as row houses (specifically Philadelphia, Washington and Baltimore)
>>
>>1144413
Gas NIMBYs, class war now!
>>
>>1144459
So they're the same thing? The graphic calls them out in two separate bullets (3) and (4)
>>
>Hong Kong bus operator comment on Electric Bus operation.
https://hk.news.appledaily.com/local/realtime/article/20180105/57666557 (Chinese link)

>KMB acquired 8 China Youngman super capacitor buses, and also 14 BYD battery electric buses
>Save 70-80% energy compared to diesel buses
>Experienced some failure from the running-in process during early trial period, mostly related to accessories and interior like door, mirror and aircon, nor problem with respect to battery, engine reliability so far
>Cleaner energy is the trend but no plan to buy more electric bus because of insufficient tech maturity
>Battery buses can run for 16+ hours a day on short route after a single full recharge but their range on long route are still limited, currently they can only be used to operate extra frequencies on long routes
>There are only single deck electric buses that are officially available on the market and no double decker as of today, it would have needed twice as much drivers and twice as much roadspace if our double deck buses are to be replaced by single deck electric buses
>Recharging is also a problem, now a diesel bus only need 3 minutes to refill but a electric bus need 3 hours.
>If the entire fleet of buses is to be electrified then recharger would need to be installed onto all the bus parking spots, that are in the number of thousands
>In this scenario, there will also be hundreds of buses that are recharging simultaneously everyday during the midnight, which would be a huge load on the electric supply network, which would require power supply company to upgrade their infrastructure to support.
>>
>>1144466
>the eternal yuppie strikes again

Seriously these people are disgusting

>”should we use our space efficiently to help the lower class be able to simply survive? No I want some more space for cute little puppy! :3”
>>
>>1144522
It is nice that they at least have some electric buses, even if replacing their entire fleet is impossible, every little bit helps I guess.
>>
>>1144502
I think the map makers used both terms as equivalent but marked two different applications (workforce housing and affordable, respectively)
>>
>>1143951
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink-2017-kevin-desmond-surrey-light-rail

>tfw local transit authority has to build an lrt instead of just extending the skytrain

>literally a fucking BRT would just be cheaper and almost the same speed

>literally nobody wants LRT besides the stupid mayor

what do /n/
>>
>>1144678
literally so many fucking accidents are gonna happen with this

part of it is being built in one of the busiest intersections and metro vancouver drivers are all ass (inb4 racist/sexist comments, its not just asians literally everyone in this fucking province can't drive. i've almost been hit by white drivers at a residential intersection multiple times)
>>
>>1144678
+sorry for spamming thread but i just wanted to add a few points

translink seemed to be doing so well and they were finally on a hot streak (finishing evergreen line, finally releasing plans to build broadway subway, planning sfu gondola...etc.) but just because the mayor of surrey wants this dumb lrt (and the mayor of burnaby who is now the chairman of the mayors council for translink) they have to build it

hoping they don't start construction before next mayoral election
>>
>>1144678
Does it have its own lane at any point?
>>
>>1144407
>Why do I have the suspicion that you want to punish remove ‘degenerates l’ who don’t adhere to your plan/“logic”?
I didn't propose any sort of urban authority.


>>1144409
Hmm, think I'll settle in for a bit :^)
>>
>>1144466
>>1144536
The only people who bitch about NIMBYs either don't own their own home or are wealthy/powerful enough to thwart any unwanted plan affecting their neighborhood.

For example, the area transit agency needs to build a new bus servicing facility. Think they're going to build it in a rich white part of town? Of course not, they're going to stick it in a poorer, usually blacker area. If the people there resist the facility to be built in/near their neighborhood, are they stupid NIMBYs too? Or do you reserve the term NIMBY for whites only? Your call.

You all complain about NIMBYs now, but when you own a home or flat (or whatever) you'll be the first to be up in arms if a highway is going to be built or expanded near you. Follow your own advice: shut up and take it up the ass, lest you be outed as a NIMBY.

Decrying NIMBYism just means you openly hate anyone who doesn't go along with what the powers that be have in store for their neighborhood, for better or for worse.
>>
What's woth those double decker buses in Seoul? After a brief searches they seems like a running bomb
>>
>>
>>1144752
Why would poor neighborhoods resist employment being built in their area?
>>
>>1144752
I don't think people have the right to uncompromisingly defend their personal interests in a public situation. Sometimes public interest overrules personal interest. I know you burgermutts hate the thought of it, but it's that easy. You give personal interests to large of a platform in your society.
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>>1144752
Uh, except the situation we are talking about is free land for affordable housing vs buying the land to build a dog park...

Your fictional bus servicing facility is irrelevant, but for the sake of appeasing you, yes, poor blacks resisting such a facility would be NIMBYs too.
>>
>>1144752
Totally asinine argument.

Highway expansion is a whole different topic from affordable housing or housing in general. Personally, I don't see an issue with fighting highway expansion (they ultimately do nothing for congestion, have all kinds of shitty health effects and urban highways legitimately destroy/cut off neighborhoods) but opposing more housing in your neighborhood is just shitty. In many cases it's not even the "powers that be" that they're fighting - it's the neighbor who wants to build a granny flat in his backyard or tear down his house to put up a duplex or small apartment building, none of which can be reasonably interpreted as "destroying the neighborhood" unless you buy into hysterical public comments.

In Seattle the residents of the Chinatown (poor) and some activists are fighting a planned condo building on the current site of a surface parking lot, citing "displacement" grounds. It's a great site close to downtown and there's a severe condo shortage in the city. I think this opposition is bullshit (it's a fucking parking lot) and that these people are NIMBYs too. It's just more often that NIMBYs are rich homeowners who are interested in their free street parking above all else.
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>>1144647
The government essentially stuff those electronic bus to their hand by paying for the buses. Probably won't trigger more order if they don't see it fit
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>>1144752
Bus servicing facility? You mean like a bus depot? There used to be one right next to my house and I don't see why anyone would complain about it, unless those people are some retard who demand no industry shall ever get close to residency regardless of nature of industry. Wait, that is what NIMBY is all about. So yeah, these NIMBY just doesn't make sense
>>
What's your opinion on Camillo Sitte?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camillo_Sitte

I quite like these ideas:
>He stated that an urban planner should not be too concerned with the small design. The city should only take care of the general streets and structure, while the rest would be left to private initiative, just as in ancient cities
>Criticizes the regular and obsessive order of the new squares, confronting it with the irregularity of the medieval city. "A square should be seen as a room: it should form an enclosed space"
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>>1144939
http://www.nccsc.net/essays/urban-design-footsteps-camillo-sitte#.Ve727CFuEGo.facebook
Further reading
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>>1144890
I think the conflict in Seattle is about gentrification and not about parking.
>>
>>1144952
The condo tower in C-ID is about gentrification.
Fort Lawton is about parking and not wanting to ever need to interact with people who aren't rich.
>>
>>1144675
>I think the map makers used both terms as equivalent but marked two different applications (workforce housing and affordable, respectively)
It does look like one type is a large number of homes with shared walls, and the other is in blocks of two homes per building. Not quite as dense, and so more valuable per unit; suits a different budget.
>>
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>>1144990
actually i just looked at the map and realised my post makes no sense

You're probably right, but if so they made a mistake in naming, because 3 are not town homes. They are seem like semi detached, while town homes implied shared walls on both sides
>>
What you all think of slapping a cloverleaf in the center of town?
>>
>>1145051
horrible idea

get cars out of city centers.
>>
>>1145061
As I remember the area used to be nothing only a sports complex and small buildings but 50 years later that area became a business district

The interchange was built as a showpiece for Asian Games 1962 to show how “Progressive” the city is all possible by printing money
>>
>>1145074
So the city grew around the clover, not the other way around
>>
tokyo.
>>
>>1145127
Sort of, Crazy expansion only started around the early 80’s and in one of the circles there is a gas station that is now closed
Basically the area grew around the Automobile and no fucks given to pedestrians
>>
>>1145006
>American realtors will sell this shit for $800 000
And it looks like piss
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>>1144890
>Highway expansion is a whole different topic from affordable housing or housing in general.

Goalposts: moved

Didn't read the rest btw.
>>
>>1145366
Fuck off, mongoloid.
>>
>>1145366
>I don't propose any sort of urban authority
>BUT I want incredibly strict zoning laws that allow landowners to tell other landowners what they can and cannot build on their own property
How do you reconcile this?
>>
>>1145133
>>1145074
>>1145051
Which city is this?
>>
>>1145371
Message received. Fucking on.
>>
>>1145366
Bit rich coming from the original goalpost mover. This discussion was about housing, not highways.
>>
>>1145362
They'd be cheaper if we could build more of them.
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>>1145390
When?
>>
>>1145375
Batavia
>>
>>1145408
It started here >>1144413
>>
>>1144413
Do you seriously want to force undesirables on those poor (figuratively) people?
You sociopath.
>>
>>1145418
Better than certain other city in China that tell poor people they can't stay in the city
>>
>>1144890
>cut off neighborhoods
That's why they're putting it underground in my 'hood.
>>
>>1144413
Is it mixed at all or it is just shit affordable housing on a suburb area? imo it would be better if it was denser and in a mixed use area. Also, i don't like the idea of affordable housing because then the developers who would build such a developments cannot compete, as the government doesn't need to make profit
>>
>>1145441
As is, I believe the city would sell the land to nonprofit developers involved in affordable housing construction.
One option that YIMBY activists were pushing for was a mixed use area, with a lot more (thousands) of units, some of them market rate. I agree, 238 units isn't nearly dense enough for such a close-in neighborhood, but I think the city is spooked from years of neighborhood opposition (this isn't the first time they've proposed housing for this area). The adjoining neighborhood, Magnolia, is semi suburban in character (SF5000 zone) but is very close to downtown.

>>1145424
Is it a cut/cover or a bored tunnel? Seattle just finished a bored highway tunnel that was way over budget (tunnel cost/complexity rises exponentially with diameter). And cut/cover has its own problems.
>>
>>1145417
Oh, you can't back your shit up I see

Faggot
>>
>1145552
(you)
>>
>>1145584
get checked for autism
>>
>>1145466
Nah, they're diggin' a big ass hole, literally cutting the whole district in half and basically cutting-off the southern part of it (myself included). Someone forgot to put the, planned ages ago, connections to the neighbouring district ahead of time.
>over budget
We're already the most expensive tunnel in the country so whatever.

Could've been worse though, the neighbouring district is going to have the highway put in a fucking trench (supposed to be a viaduct originally).
>>
>>1145051
>putting a bunch of trees within the cloverleaf to make it look less like wasted space
>implying anyone will go near that greenery
>implying there's a point to a bunch of trees compared to the amount of pollution generated by a fucking highway interchange
>>
>>1145690
So they won't cover it afterward? And it still cuts the neighborhood in two? It sounds like it's in a trench - in what way is it a tunnel?
>>
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>>1145690
>Could've been worse though, the neighbouring district is going to have the highway put in a fucking trench (supposed to be a viaduct originally

I know that bad feel.
>>
>>1145720
still, it looks nice for the drivers. I mean, may as well, IMO
>>
>>1144055
>Sociopathic obsession with systems, numbers, and rationality, insistence on planning everything out for others, punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"
That's really not what bugman means though. A bugman is a normie to the extreme. Consumerism, social media, leftism (not too much, just enough to be seen as trendy and progressive) yet always doing what (((they))) want you to do.
>>
>>1145763
Yeah, what else are you going to put there? Playgrounds? I think not. What's said is that the city center is torn up like that for the car in the first place.
>>
>>1145776
agree, for sure.
>>
>>1145764
That's a nu-male. Bugmen are similar though
>>
>>1144055
>Sociopathic obsession with systems, numbers, and rationality, insistence on planning everything out for others, punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"

>doesn't know about Jane Jacobs
>>
>>1145725
I might've not made myself clear, sorry.
"My" part of the highway is being built from ground level down, so they are digging a hole first, putting a tunnel inside it and then covering it all up, 19th century style. For the time being, the construction site cuts the whole district in half.
The actual trench will be dug in the neighbouring district.
Cheers.
>>
Tfw no enclosed public spaces in my city
>>
>>1145814
No.
For once, UD gets it mostly right:
>Nu-male
Nu-males are men (with "men" being used as loosely as possible) lacking self-respect who are completely devoid of any masculinity and will jump at any moment to defend women online for feminist brownie points while falsely believing that in return, they'll receive sexual favors. They're a step above "Nice Guys" in terms of beta they are.

>Bugman
A bugman is your typical big left leaning city dweller. He is usually obsessed with consumerism, lining up to purchase the newest iPhone or MacBook when it comes out, and using a smartwatch/smart home speaker for longer than the week after he bought it. Chances are he owns other throwaway smart gadgets as well. All his tastes in movies, music, expensive food, art, and more are determined by what review sites and blogs say.
Everything about his personality and life is not defined by who he is, but by what he buys and his consumerist tendencies. He'll be subscribed to at least one, maybe multiple subscription services, he'll happily use social media and upload all of his information to the cloud, and he'll gravitate towards things that seem "rational" and use big words.
In fact, their social media use defines a lot about who they are, as they try to get the most likes on social media bragging about their life and viewing the lives of others who do the same.
Yet there is something big missing about their life, something that can be seen in their face. Something that can be seen the minute you strip away all the consumerist choices and realize, there's nothing else. Their lives are empty, hollow, and all about serving corporations, until they die, and this is seen in their empty insectoid stare that implies they're dead inside, giving them the name bugmen.

But back to the original point
>Sociopathic obsession with systems, numbers, and rationality, insistence on planning everything out for others, punishing those who don't adhere to their plan/"logic"
That's a sperg.
>>
>>1146071
That's called "cut and cover"
Obviously as you're aware the construction is very disruptive to the neighborhood
>>
>>1146106
>enclosed public spaces
Can you give some examples of this? Struggling to think what this looks like beyond the lobby for a major building.
>>
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>>1146639
Something like a town square sorrounded by buildings on all sides
>>
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>>1146827
And that feels like a peristyle
>>
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