[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/n/ - Transportation



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




Let's have a thread about the best bus: The trolleybus.

Jokes aside, I was recently thinking how come in the 50's-60's so many cities around the world suddenly got trolleybuses, but then they died out again all of a sudden. Why was that? Why were trolleybuses so popular only for such a very short time?

Are trolleybuses still a good transit option? Are battery buses superior? Or is it actually advantageous to have electric buses that don't depend on batteries?

Talk about new trolleybus systems or extensions of existing systems. Which cities still have trolleybuses, and which cities still care for them instead of letting them slowly die out?
Also talk about past systems.


Pic related is the first trolleybus that ran in Shanghai, which has the oldest continually operating trolleybus system in the world. It started operations in 1917, and is now 101 years old, the only trolleybus system in the world that's a century old.
>>
The UK had trolleybuses come into service around the 1910s-1920s and then dismantled them in the 1950s-1970s. The last trolleybus system in the UK was the Bradford Trolleybus, and that was dismantled in 1974.
Pic related was the old Belfast Trolleybus which was dismantled in 1968.

The thing which occured in the UK, was that people starting thinking that trams and trolleybuses were obsolete. Internal compustion engine busses were superior, could go anywhere, and the thought was that busses would replace all public transport, creating one single means of public transport, which was cheaper, could to to any road in the UK, and would be the best since it could be scaled.
Central Europe on the other hand didn't do that, and many cities in Central Europe still maintain trolleybus networks. It's only been in the last 10-20 years that UK cities have brought trams back, but no one wants to build new trolleybus infrastructure.
>>
>Why were trolleybuses so popular only for such a very short time?
In my reading about historic Australian tram systems like Brisbane's, it seems to be that the trolleybuses were a replacement for trams and a step towards buses. Before some of the lines were closed they were converted to trolleybus operation. The conversion must have had something to do with not wanting to take down the overhead power but wanting to move towards a bus-only system (Brisbane in particular has a massive fetish for buses and their mayor really wanted to get rid of the trams). In any ex-tram and ex-trolleybus city, at some point, it was probably decided to commit fully to diesel buses and that further maintaining the power infrastructure wasn't worth it any more. The only place I know of in Australasia that held onto the trolleybuses for a longer period was Wellington, where they were removed last year.
>>
>>1210645
>Wellington
NEVER FORGET
>>
>>1210629
I know for a fact that the 71, 72, 73, 77, in Cambridge and the Silver 1, Silver 2, and Silver 3 between South Station Under and Silver Line Way in Boston are the MBTA's running trolleybus routes. Pretty sure SEPTA has at least one route running, but I can't be fucked to look up the route number.
>>
>>1210769
What's MBTA's or the city's viewpoint on those lines? Many trolleybus systems nowadays are thinking of abandoning trolley service, often citing the battery bus meme as an excuse.
>>
Local bus company tried trolleybus last decade but they concluded the operational cost would be higher than diesel bus so abandoned the idea
>>
>>1210824
Don't know, but I know they're not going anywhere anytime soon regardless of their view on them
>>
File: E-Bus.jpg (391 KB, 1680x1120)
391 KB
391 KB JPG
How much trolley is this?
>>
File: gyrobus.jpg (27 KB, 249x317)
27 KB
27 KB JPG
>>1211051
Not much more than this
>>
>>1211051
on a scale from 1 to 10 I'd say homosexual
>>
>>1210769
It's curious how many transit parallels there are between MBTA and SEPTA
>both have subway-surface streetcars which are colored green in both cases
>both have just a handful of trolleybus lines
>both have one line operating PCC streetcars in non-heritage service
>>
>>1211051
Not really a trolleybus, but a neat concept. You don't have to blow that much money into batteries or wires, but still get the advantages of all-electric busses.
>>
>>1211066
>all the disadvantages of trolleybuses (fixed loading stations, cost of infrastructure, somewhat fixed route layout)
>all the disadvantages of battery buses (weight, limited range, expensive)
meme/10
>>
>>1211062
>both operate all 5 terrestrial forms of mass transportation (commuter/regional rail, heavy and light rail rapid transit, buses, and trolleybuses)
>both have an east-west rapid transit line colored blue and a north-south line colored orange
>said subway-surface streetcars run east to west, and split into several branches in the west
>commuter rail networks originated from 2 major freight railroads (Boston & Maine and Penn Central, Penn Central and Reading)
>>
>>1210629
1. Trolleybus combine all cons of bus and tram. (High rolling resistance of bus and tram's attachment to rails and powerline)
2. But it is cheaper to maintain than tram or bus in long run, since it doesn't have an engine and transmission that needs to be rebuilt every 10 years or so. You can still find 1950's trolleybuses in Valparaiso, Chile, that are still operational. Or 1970's (that are pretty similar to Chilean ones electrically) soviet units in Russia, Ukraine.
3. If infrastructure is build wrong/cheap trolley can't be as fast as tram or bus, since you literally have to drive thought such junctions 3-5 km/h, otherwise you risk slipping poles from wire.
The actual problem of trolleybus is just that it is tethered to power line, and proper power line costs money.
Battery powered units will not last long and they are more expensive than buses (even considering that electricity might be cheaper than natural gas or diesel).

Considering that EU tries to get rid of ICEs, trolleybuses might become a thing again, since they don't have costly poisonous batteries, run on electricity (that is over-generated now, considering everyone had changed sucking vacuum cleaners to 800W noise makers and heat lamps to cold LEDs and CFLs)
Lower weight of trolleybus also improves power consumption and tire wear.
>>
>>1210629
Seattle has a bunch of catenary for buses, although most of them are also hybrids to reach out into the suburbs where there is none.
>>
>>1211230
They manufacture brand new trolleybuses in Ukraine, so they're not all 1970s' units.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv_Bus_Factory
>>
>>1211273
The build them in Belarus, too. The AKSM-321's are quite nice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belkommunmash
>>
File: AKCM-420_in_Minsk_-_04.jpg (1.02 MB, 2667x2000)
1.02 MB
1.02 MB JPG
>>1211278
These look pretty fancy.
>>
>>1210645
Damn, I visited Wellington (from Australia) back in 2006 and I didn't see these things, or at least I don't remember seeing them. Shame :(
>>
>>1211230
>junctions 3-5 km/h

Nonsense. That must be some really baaad junction. The junctions in Switzerland are normally built for normal traffic speed up to 50 km/h and even the chrap and worse ones when maintained properly can allow about 15-20 km/h which should not slow down the traffic that much.
On contrary, the electric motor has much better accelerance than diesel bus so the teolleybus usually catches up quickly after the junction.
>>
>>1211230
>1970 soviet units in Russia or Ukraine

Citation needed
I know only about few Škodas 9tr somewhere in Ukraine that might be from 1970s (i think few models are in Rivne, but those are early 1980 built) but 9tr is not soviet but Czechoslovak.
>>
File: DSC00844-1-1024x769.jpg (186 KB, 1024x769)
186 KB
186 KB JPG
Prague has officialy started runing a new trolleybus system and trolleybus line although just with one bus and its still mostly something like a test run.
Prague had an extensive trolleybus network from 1930's to 1970's. There was a plan to return them in start of 1990's but it was rejected.
In the upcoming years Prague wants to electrify the public transport to enhance environment in the city, however there is a lot of steep hilly streets where trams cannot run effectively and electrobuses would be too costly. Instead of using trolleybuses with a charging stations stations just at the stops, Prague has decided to introduce battery trolleybuses where they run a longer hilly segment of the route under the wires and downhill they can use regenerative braking and return the energy to the network.
The trolleybus therefore is not really fully functional network. It does not have loops or junctions. However we can say there is a trolleybus line back in Prague, since 2018.
>>
>>1210824
The trolleybus lines in Cambridge are a necessity as they run through a 1/2 mile long former trolley tunnel at Harvard Station that was converted into a bilevel underground busway but lacks any ventilation whatsoever, requiring frequent trolleybus service through it to push out fumes from the diesel buses and push in new air. Harvard is a vital link between about a dozen of the busiest suburban bus lines and the Red Line, and is one of the busiest outer stations in the system, and so the dedicated tunnel to bypass the traffic nightmare of Harvard Square and the trolleybuses required to make it work aren't going anywhere.

In fact, the MBTA recently took down the caternary for the ~4 mile stretch from Mount Auburn to Waverly to allow for some major roadwork, and recently re-installed brand new caternary within the past year or two.

Likewise, the Silver Line is a BRT abortion that needs the electrical power to run the 4 mile round trip in an un-ventilated tunnel under South Boston to South Station. The only way they'll get rid of the trackless trolleys on the Silver Line is if it gets replaced with proper light rail.
>>
File: ziy.jpg (56 KB, 700x482)
56 KB
56 KB JPG
>>1212006
Maybe.
I meant that this ZiU was quite common in former USSR.
>>
>>1212001
Yep, shitty junctions are still an issue.
In Moscow most of junctions are limited to 5-10 km/h. And majority is shitty-maintained, so drivers drive slowly.
And there are some modern radio-controlled ones, those allow driving faster.
>>
File: 300.gif (3.65 MB, 480x366)
3.65 MB
3.65 MB GIF
>>1212014
Breddy gud. It seems like the hybrid systems are becoming quite popular, apparently they don't need too large batteries nor very fast charging systems, but they save quite a bit of the cost for wires. I'd never heard about using only catenary on the uphill sections, but it's pretty ingenious. Also Prague having a large tram network probably means that they just use the same electrical system of the trams for the trolleys.
btw according to trolleymotion there's 299 operating trolleybus systems in the world, Prague would be the 300th.
>>
Does anyone know something about Moscow?
Las thing I heard the future for trolleybuses in Moscow looked murky. On one hand they've recently removed trolley wires all around the city center, however they have been buying some new vehicles for the lines in the outskirts. In 2016 there were rumors that they planned to shut down all trolleys by 2020, but closures have pretty much stopped by now, so that seems unlikely by now, maybe in the long term tho?
>>
>>1212054
Yes, it is true, they are killing trolleybus.
They promised fixing it, but in fact they just replaced many routes with buses. (Or didn't replace at all. I hate Moscow mayor, since he destroyed route I used, the 1 trolleybus)
And their new russia-made buses with russian engines are just aweful. New bus (less than 3 month I believe) and already burns oil and coolant badly, so badly, that can be called gasenwagen.
Also they are popularizing small buses based on Mercedes Sprinter van or Iveco, something similar to latin 'micro', but it fucking city, where should go long bus with flex joint in middle.
Also this mayor introduced bus lanes... You might say a good thing, but it fact no. It causes traffic jams and dangerous driving due to poor implementation.
And you know what? He is not even from Moscow, nor from other big city, he's from fucking shithole part of shithole, where main transport is deer carriage.
And nobody voted for him...
By the way this is why I just fucken moved from that country.
>>
>>1212017
>frequent trolleybus service through it to push out fumes from the diesel buses and push in new air
Wow. That's pretty crazy.
>>
>>1212079
>they are popularizing small buses based on Mercedes Sprinter van or Iveco
Wouldn't that just be a marshrutka? I thought Moscow has phased them out.
>>
>>1212104
Yep, marshrutka. But back then they were private and illegal, now they are less private and more legal and they replace some bus routes (pretty busy ones I have to say) with pic related
>>
File: пиздец.jpg (8 KB, 259x194)
8 KB
8 KB JPG
>>1212124
I mean there were a bus 13 (near paveletsky rail terminal) and it's route was short (https://wikiroutes.info/msk?routes=1146) and it's purpose was to transport people from subway and train to offices.
It was normal-sized bus and it was full (pic related).
And now imagine what happens in this small blue turd, considering that number of parallel buses are the same, and intervals are the same.
>>
File: B (16632).jpg (369 KB, 1600x1066)
369 KB
369 KB JPG
Landskrona, Sweden. New system from 2003.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LMa0BVPlhc
Also museum traffic with a guest from Stockholm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnQ1fhBIwNg
>>
File: Jattnetradbuss0820.jpg (90 KB, 1000x670)
90 KB
90 KB JPG
>>1212127
In the latter case, they had to dig it out of a barn first.
>>
>>1212031
Not that much common anymore. If there is some working it's definitely a younger one than from 1970s. They were produced all the way to 1990s. And their construction is pretty....well...easy to rot and be damaged. So there is no way some 40yo ZiU would be still working :)
>>
>>1212050
The line where they introduced this is pretty short compared to the rest of the bus lines. It connects 2 metro terminals, one downhill and one uphill. And the wires are on a shorter section which makes about 1/3 of the line.
Still if the bus should be running the whole service as other regular buses (fast turns at end stations) and carrying bigger ammounts of people as usually. In other words, working in normal service, not some fancy useless electrobus line. Then it needs some more technology development and testing. Batteries are not so quickly charged as they should be and there is a charging needed at the terminuses. However it seems this is the way to go for Prague. Let's hope for some more trolleybus lines in a future.
See the map, wires are between stations Kundratka and Prosecká
>>
>>1212126
>>1212079
Yep, that definitely sounds like latin American tier planning. Amazing that a city like Moscow would fall for the "buses cause traffic" meme. It seems to me they're removing trolleys and instead using those minibuses bc the retard mayor thinks that more maneuverable buses will reduce traffic jams, when it's actually the other way around, trolleybuses tend to attract riders (trams even more so), while small overcrowded microbuses will just make people want to use a car when possible. There's always a segment of population that tends between car and public transport, even when other parts of the population will only use one or the other. But again the mayor probably thinks everyone using public transport will keep using it no matter what. Sad!
>>
File: zui-9.jpg (366 KB, 1024x576)
366 KB
366 KB JPG
>>1212134
I know they're still running ZiU 9's in Moldova, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were that old. Of course it's damn near impossible to tell just by looking at most of this Soviet era stuff, especially post-Soviet.
>>
>>1212079
>gasenwagen
What did anon mean by this
But seriously, fuck your mayor
>>
>>1212183
The oldest ZiUs in Chisinau are from 1985, you can look at a rather complete and updated list at Transphoto page
>>
>>1212175
>that definitely sounds like latin American tier planning.
Latin america is better. They have 'micros' in places where there is no much passenger traffic, and those micros have insanely low intervals.

And traffic is caused not by buses, or number of cars, just by shitty design of roads and speedcameras (that also monitor other shit).
With previous mayor we didn't had that much traffic (some people will say no, but they didn't drove a car at all).
And yea, you can't drive there a car normally either.
>>
>>1212244
>What did anon mean by this
Shitty assembly quality of bus, so shitty that gases from engine go into passenger compartment. And engine is shitty too, so it burns oil and antifreeze, so it causes more smoke to enter the cabin.
>>
>>1212175
And yeah, they don't think at all. I meant they think only about money that they can get doing this, because this Iveco-based thing costs like a normal bus.
>>
>>1212279
>Latin america is better. They have 'micros' in places where there is no much passenger traffic, and those micros have insanely low intervals.
You're wrong tho, I know Mexico City and micros are used as a universally all over the place, mostly where there's no metro. They're also extremely unsafe because they're private, often owned by the drivers themselves, and terribly maintained.
Compared to latin america Moscow's public transit is pretty decent, it's somewhat more orderly, reliable and safe. Hell, Moscow has better public transit that many southern european cities, even if many of the vehicles are much older and maybe not as comfortable.
>>
File: MapaSte.jpg (106 KB, 800x600)
106 KB
106 KB JPG
Speaking of Mexico City, trolleybuses there have a doubtful future. As of now, the trolleybus fleet consists mainly of two batches, one from the mid to late 90's, and one from the 80's (some from around 83-84, others from around 87-88). Plus a handful of units from 1975 which are still in regular service.

In the last couple of years on one hand there has been no effort to renew trolleybuses, and financing for the STE (Servicio de Transportes Eléctricos, public enterprise operating trolleys and the Xochimilco light rail) has been continually reduced, in a likely effort to eventually close it down or privatize it. Meanwhile a lot of investment has gone to the clunky Metrobús BRT system, to the point where one single Metrobús line gets about 90% as much financing as the whole STE. If the STE isn't kill yet it is thanks to its powerful union, which dates back to the streetcar days.
On the other hand, some time ago some trolleybus lines where converted into sort of quasi-BRT called "Corredor Cero Emisiones", where a bus lane was drawn and physically separated (with little bumps on the street), and trolleybus stops were refurbished. This was ofc a bare-bones improvement, and this was hence dubbed "Corredor Cero Inversiones" (zero investment corridor). Despite that, these corridors work pretty well, they offer rather good frequency, and manage to mostly avoid traffic jams. The newer buses from the 90s are used on these lines.

As of now, there are 3 Corredor Cero Emisiones lines, and 5 conventional lines. Single rides cost 4 pesos (.21 usd) on the CCE, 2 pesos (.10 usd) on the regular lines, this is the absolutely cheapest fare in all of Mexico City, together with the public buses (NOT the private micros), since the subway fare was raised to 3 pesos.

Pic related shows trolleybus lines and light rail line (TL). Lines A, D, and S are CCE. Line K was cut back recently on the eastern side, because the new metro line overlapped, so in this case it was a reasonable measure.
>>
File: trolebus_ll.jpg (1.29 MB, 2048x1536)
1.29 MB
1.29 MB JPG
>>1212570
The new government *MIGHT* improve things, the now ruling party has on at least one occasion spoken out against the (meme) proposal of replacing the trolleybuses with battery buses (http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/articulo/metropoli/cdmx/2016/11/23/morena-rechaza-sustitucion-de-trolebus-por-autobus-de-baterias).

The new Mexico City mayor Claudia (((Sheinbaum))) in her program included proposals of improving the trolleybus system, extending it by 5 km and reactivating 13 km of it. There's no point in ever trusting political programs in Mexico, but at least hers was somewhat more realistic than others which at times promised crazy things like "100 more km of metro lines".

Though there's only 8 lines those rack up 203 km (I think that includes overlapping lines, of which however there's not much). According to the STE union there's 450 km of wire in the city (not counting each way). Some of that will never be used again because it's redundant with metro, but other parts could be reactivated if the investment were to be made available. Time will tell.

Pic related is one of the oldest units still in operation, from 1975, a testament to the durability of the trolleybus.
>>
>>1212570
>"Corredor Cero Inversiones" (zero investment corridor
Kek
>>
>>1212079
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoвaя_мoдeль_тpaнcпopтнoгo_oбcлyживaния_Mocквы
This?
>>1212175
Even cities like Hong Kong still seems to have same kind of mindset
>>
File: 17-06-08-042n1cap-1.jpg (27 KB, 500x334)
27 KB
27 KB JPG
>>1212582
Ironically, Mexico City's clunky BRT, the Metrobus, which has been hailed by many laymen as a great improvement, has actually been a massive rip-off. One Metrobus line costs over 1.2bn pesos a uear, including vehicle cost divided by useful life, while the budget for the STE is just 1.4bn pesos a year for 8 trolleybus lines and one LRT.
OTOH the surprisingly good quality of the corredor cero emisiones lines, also thanks to the trolleys amazing acceleration which makes them agile in city traffic (and makes for a fun ride), is nothing short of a miracle,considering what they have to work with. Trolleybuses are really well suited for mexico city as long as they just get a physically separated bus lane.
Fun fact, many lines run both ways on "ejes viales" a sort of fast, one-way thoroughfare introduced in the 70, so they have a counterflow bus lane. When the ejes viales were created they were conceived to have this type of trolley setup, since many of those roads were converted from avenues where previously trams had run. The standard road signs on those thoroughfares by design feature wire support for trolley catenary.
The 70s-80s were the heyday of trolleybuses:

>In 1989 it was operating about 700 trolleybuses on 30 lines with a route length of 557 km. It was the largest trolleybus system in Latin America
>>
File: IMG_0298.jpg (184 KB, 800x600)
184 KB
184 KB JPG
>>1212124
What's their capacity?
>>
>>1210629
We had them for years and years in Philadelphia and I loved them.. They called them "trackless trolleys" and we had tons of regular Trolleys, too. Decades later, I go down there and all the tracks are paved over. I think the stinking power co. bills made Diesel look good. Plus: Philadelphia.
>>
>>1211062
The SEPTA Trolleys sure had some torque. Put you back in your seat
>>
>>1212711
I believe 21 seats and they claim that 45 in total.
By the way, it is not even it Moscow, so it might be fine to there.
>>
We've got a pretty substantial trolley fleet here in Vancouver. The buses are modern with both 40' and 60' coaches. The only knock on them is that they don't have air conditioning which can suck in the summer. But I imagine in the future new orders will have them.

They usually run on routes 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,16,17,19 and 20. All routes are in the City of Vancouver, except the 19 which goes into Burnaby.
>>
>>1212569
Dunno about Mexico.
I know that in Chile they have those micro, they are not too bad maintained, some sticker tuning is present. But drivers are just something, open doors before stop, close doors while accelerating (and power-weight ratio is just insane)... And considering that micros are based on truck (freight) chassis, it is firm ride indeed.
In Santiago they've proper buses tho.

In Moscow public transit is not much better I believe. Subway is not maintained at all, (fires, derailment... Old trains are old, while new are extreme shit). Trolleybuses can give you 550V shock, because they weren't maintained. Trams, buses are only thing that is somehow maintained. Suburban trains - it is OK if doors don't close/open, because they are 50+ years old.
Transportation might seem decent, but in fact it is not much better.
>>1212589
Dunno, maybe.
>>
>>1212807
45 in total is including standing?
>>
>>1212852
yep
>>
>>1212017
Didn't know they used the trolleybuses as air vents at the Harvard Square bus tunnels. That's actually brilliant.
Also, kek'd at your description of the Silver Line. "BRT abortion" is quite apt. The T needs to restore some streetcar lines to reduce the need for diesel/CNG buses, preferably restoring the A and outer E branches (Packards Corner-Watertown Square & Heath Street-Forest Hills/Arborway), and Green-eats-Washington-Silver, running up the Pleasant Street Incline to Washington Street, down through Dudley, and turning onto Warren Street and Blue Hill Ave to serve Franklin Park, being coincidently being dubbed the F Branch.
>>
File: 115438.jpg (243 KB, 1024x685)
243 KB
243 KB JPG
How many cities with trolleybus systems have you visited (or you recall visiting them) and which one is your favourite so far and why?

For me it will be probably 24 systems, all of them in Europe. My most favourite will be probably Salzburg, it has very extensive system with modern and unique fleet and lots of unique spots in the historic centre like riding through narrow medieval gate, old epic tunnel, some house tunnels and narrow streets. I like it a lot. In a similar way I also liked Luzern back in the day when there were bus trailers in service.
From my home country I like the most Zlín system. The long and busy line to the neighbouring town of Otrokovice and cute narrow street line 4. It fots the city a lot. Too bad they got rid of 14Tr and 15Tr, the new fleet is soulless.
>>
>>1212824
>Chile
If you refer to Santiago, it's a ridiculously spread out city, and they have massive car usage. The micros aren't the problem, but sitting in traffic is. In any case, Santiago is far from your prototypical latam city.
>>
>>1212994
>>1212820
Ah, yes, Salzburg and Vancouver, two rare examples of cities that apparently put great value in their trolleybuses.
>>
File: crimean_trolleybus.jpg (357 KB, 760x1080)
357 KB
357 KB JPG
Anyone here ever rode on the Crimean Trolleybus?
>longest trolleybus line in the world, 96 km, running from Simferopol to Yalta
>massive system structured around the interurban line with many local lines
>extremely full of win
>>
File: 602665[1].jpg (437 KB, 1200x800)
437 KB
437 KB JPG
>>1213007
Unfortunately I didn't manage to go there before the Russian occupation.
Traveling now to Crimea from Europe is basicaly impossible and also risky.

There is also this cute beach tram line on Crimean peninsula, in the village of Molochnoe. However, no idea if it still works. The news are rather incomplete in last years.

edit: okay, apparently the service ended in 2014. Thanks, Putin.
>>
>>1213037
>Traveling now to Crimea from Europe is basicaly impossible and also risky.
my russian gfs family goes there all the time tho, it's like the prime russian holiday region
>>
>>1213039
That's the only passport that will allow you to enter there basically.
>>
>>1212994
I've only ever traveled through Solingen by train. You can see the bus terminal with several trolleybusses from the station.
>>
>>1213007
I have. I've also been on the Crimean Marshrutka, and, eh...
The trolleybus is intended entirely for locals, not tourists. If you're a tourist, getting to the tourist attractions will require you to take the Marshrutka. Best way to get to other towns though is hiring a taxi driver, and they'll actually show you around the towns, and the cities of Simferopol and Sevastopol.
I was last in Crimea in 2012, and for my citizenship, I didn't need a visa to be a tourist in Ukraine.
I can tell you about the old terminal of Kyiv Zhuliany and the domestic terminal of Simferopol airport, and they're both shit. Worst airports I've ever been to. What's more is that Simferopol Airport is a former Soviet air base, meaning it's a 20 minute taxi from the runway to the apron.
Anyway, trolleybuses at the time were in a period of modernisation. The old Soviet built trolleybuses which basically looked like they were going to fall apart at every corner (thanks to how the body flexed) were being replaced by new Lviv Bus Factory trolleybuses, featuring LCD displays for the route information and advertising as well as a low floor design with leaning capabilities for accessibility.
I can't imagine that the fleet replacement was completed before 2014.
If any anons have questions, I can see if I can answer them.
>>
>>1213067
AFAIK there were no Soviet trolleybuses operated in Simferopol system. All the old trolleybuses were Czechoslovak built Škodas 9Tr or 14Tr. The new supplies were then already Ukrainian.

Nowadays there is a rather big supply of Russian built trolleybuses Trolza, because the Russian government wants to show it cares about the well-being of their "new citizens". Also it's something like a summer holiday region as Anon before me said, so it should be nice looking.

According to the news on Transphoto and what I understand a little bit, there was a shortage of electricity supplies in the beginning of 2016, but now the system should be OK working. However it's hard for me to compare the current service with the previous service in 2014, as I don't know the situation. Maybe the service was a little suspended, as Russia isn't very favourable of trolleybuses, as you can see in Moscow.
>>
>>1213000
Maybe, I've not been in many latam city/countries.
> it's a ridiculously spread out city, and they have massive car usage...but sitting in traffic is.
Same shit in Moscow. And I think that Santiago doesn't have such bad traffic as Moscow. In Moscow avg. speed for cars is like 13-15 km/h (this is the reason, why some cagers had bought and electric kickscooter, becase speed is higher) in rush-hours, and Santiago seems to be faster, but I don't know for sure.
>>1213037
>edit: okay, apparently the service ended in 2014. Thanks, Putin.
Thanks Putin for everything blyad. For mayor in Moscow, for lack of European food, for burning cheese, for locally-made shitboxes... Thanks for 60RUB=1USD...
>>1213074
Not quite, while they rid of trolleybuses in Moscow, 3-rd tier cities buy those for scrap-metal prices and use them.
>>
>>1213263
m8, Moscow has twice the population of Santiago and it's a much denser city. Stop thinking that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Ive been to both Santiago and Moscow, and even though it's far from perfect Moscow handles transit better than Santiago considering size. Santiago is a city that grew recently, outside of the tiny center it was all designed around the automobile.
>>
Aerfer FI 711.2 F/Pd - Alfa Mille (Alfa Romeo)
Ganz Solaris T12

CTP Napoli (T.P.N.)
>>
>>1213455
The left one looks like a Berlin metro train
>>
File: 447175[1].jpg (213 KB, 900x600)
213 KB
213 KB JPG
>>1213455
Italian orange filobuses are hnnng. Too bad that Italy, similarly to France or any other "southern" European country doesn't really care about keeping anything in good condition and lots of the systems died or are slowly dying.
>>
File: 877800[1].jpg (654 KB, 1400x1050)
654 KB
654 KB JPG
>>1213464
I especially like the boxy design of 1990's
>>
File: 594639[1].jpg (139 KB, 900x675)
139 KB
139 KB JPG
>>1213465
doorgasm
>>
File: 376613[1].jpg (260 KB, 900x599)
260 KB
260 KB JPG
Something for true enthusiasts: guess the city
>>
>>1213469
Athens?
>>
File: 918548[1].jpg (435 KB, 1200x800)
435 KB
435 KB JPG
>>1213483
Well done.
Athens have a very extensive trolleybus system which is pretty unique in Greece. The atmosphere of the city can get sometimes very...well...non-european.
Vast and dense low-rise buildings and hot streets remind me of Central America or middle east.
>>
File: 793047[1].jpg (412 KB, 1200x795)
412 KB
412 KB JPG
>>1213486
>>
File: 793044[1].jpg (418 KB, 1200x795)
418 KB
418 KB JPG
>>1213487
>>
File: 679539[1].jpg (411 KB, 1024x683)
411 KB
411 KB JPG
>>1213488
>>
>>1213467
Menarini F201
Tramvie Elettriche Parmensi S.p.A.
Parma (italy)
>>
File: 560007[1].jpg (265 KB, 1100x673)
265 KB
265 KB JPG
>>1213489
And one more back in the days of ole'
>>
>>1212994
>How many cities with trolleybus systems have you visited (or you recall visiting them) and which one is your favourite so far and why?

One: Chisinau, Moldova, and it's awesome because Soviet era ZiU 9's.
>>
>>1213469
>>1213492
Thanks for the comfy info dump
>>
File: schaffhausen_trolleybus.jpg (543 KB, 1200x930)
543 KB
543 KB JPG
>>1213464
>>1213465
That's a sexy stretch of trolleybus line, both the same city? Napoli?

>>1213467
sexy trolleybus, doorgasm indeed. I love those four-part doors, whatever they're called.

>>1213469
Cute old timer, what year is it? Regular service or heritage unit? I love how you can't always tell with trolleybuses, since they can last so long.

>>1213486
>The atmosphere of the city can get sometimes very...well...non-european.
Also because trolleybus operation is getting ever more rare in Europe, other than in eastern europe ofc. Switzerland is pretty big on trolleys, Italy has a bunch systems tho not always in top shape, in other countries it's an occasional, rare exception, only Salzburg is a major city with an important and valued trolleybus service.


Here's an obligatory Schaffhausen trolleybus, one of the smallest systems in the world, if not THE smallest. Just one line, about 7,5 km, operating 6 vehicles, and one as backup. Livery commemorates 50 years of trolleybus service in 2016.
>>
Toronto used to have a Trolley Bus system composed of 10 routes. However the system was eliminated in 1993 for a few reasons. The Trolley Buses and their infrastructure was old and actually costed more to maintain then the streetcars. It would have costed millions to fix and replace everything and at the time the TTC was under a budget crunch due to the recession at the time (and low ridership as well). As well things like Oil being still relatively cheap and the advent of CNG Buses (which themselves didn't last long in Toronto) all essentially brought down the trolley buses.

As well the system was essentially 2 independent systems that weren't linked together. There was the Lansdowne Division and the Eglinton Division. The TTC proposed converting the 32 Eglinton West into a Trolley Bus route to bridge the gap between the two divisions however this was obviously never built. They also looked at converting the 94 Wellesley, 75 Sherbourne and 78 Runnymede South into Trolley Routes while extending the 89 Weston all the way to Steeles; none of this happened either. To be honest even if the TTC had invested the money to revamp the system part of me doubts it would have survived anyways since only a year after the system was closed the Conservatives were elected in Ontario and promptly eliminated the Provincial Transit Subsidy which has forever hurt the TTC and its finances.
>>
>>1213424
Area of Moscow (before it 'exploded'): 1070 km^2
Population of Moscow (before it 'exploded') : 12 000 000
Density: 11200 ppl/km
Area of Santiago: 641 km^2
Population of Santiago: 6 000 000
Density: 9800 ppl/km
Yes, Moscow is 15% more denser. Not a big difference.
And since Stgo is designed around automobile it has much better traffic situation, while Moscow was never designed at all (those ring roads were some protective thing back in past, and kremlin is literally a protective thing), so traffic jams are a thing.
Transit?
Stgo has 118 km of metro lines, while Moscow 364 km. So Moscow 1.5 more tracks/nigger. But I guess this will change soon, since they are building more lines. And Moscow doesn't have automatic trains. But Stgo has buses, that work, while Moscow doesn't have good enough on-level transport. Trams do go parallel to Metro or suburban train, trolleybuses used to do same thing, and buses - frequent never go to places they are really needed.
If you compare Moscow 20 years ago, it will be close to Stgo now, but bigger.
Also you have to consider climate. Moscow has snow, and Stgo - very rarely, so car in Moscow is extremely preferable to have, because dirt, while in Santiago - you can walk all year round.

Dunno, I like more Stgo, becase it is not cancer yet, it is more evenly populated, while Moscow is empty in center and majority live 10+ km from center.
>>
>>1213424
>>1213798
And yeah, you were as a tourist in Moscow, or in business trip?
>>
>>1213634
>That's a sexy stretch of trolleybus line, both the same city? Napoli¿

No, first is Genova (very sexy downtown), sexy is San Remo (coastline interurban line)
>>
>>1213798
I never been to a single one of those cities, but as a streetview visitor and because I know a little bit about Russia and its urbanism, I have to say that Moscow is hardly comparable capital city to anything west of it. Moscow urbanism is build on tall and massive apartment units, the newer the massiver and a network of very wide streets (not expresways though), this kind of urbanism inherited only some post-soviet countries or kinda similar is also China. Moscow is dense but at the same time it has very wide streets (still full of cars though, because everyone in Moscow wants to own and ride a car, it is a strangely individualistic society). Sounds likea wet dream of some western current urbanists, right? Well, tge architecture and living standard of those apartment blocks is terrible, so all the pros of dense city are ruined.
>>
>>1213829
Is there a reason why so many cities in Italy use the same kind of orange livery for public transit? Or is it just a popular fashion to make it easily recognizable?
>>
>>1213856
I guess it used to be some kind of fashion or traditional livery, maybe also given by some standard, as the first orange trams or buses date very back in time, however nowadays many cities abandoned orange livery and have their own. Sometimes it even looks more like a circus as every generation of vehicles have their own new livery etc. (see Florence for example).
>>
File: 700719[1].jpg (433 KB, 1024x683)
433 KB
433 KB JPG
>>1213829
>sexy is San Remo

second is San Remo, ffs
*facepalm*

Here have some trolleybus picture as an excuse for error.
>>
>>1213868
>having logos of banks on your public transport
>>
Last days of Škoda 9Tr double-units in RIga, Latvia in the year of 2000.

The trolleybus system in Riga is one of the largest in the European Union. Larger might be only the system in Athens, however there are unfortunately no exact and updated statistics published anywhere. The numbers on Wikipedia are just super wrong as sometimes they count only length of the overhead wires network, sometimes the length of the lines (even if they usually share some streets and overlap). In this case, probably the Russian Wiki is the most accurate. If we could believe those numbers, then Riga has something about 323 km of the trolley network, while Athens/Piraeus about 350 km. Also Riga has about 250 vehicles, while Athens about 100 more than that.
>>
>>1213634
>Cute old timer, what year is it? Regular service or heritage unit?

Should be from the beginning of the 21st century, I think 2003, but not sure. It is a regular service.
>>
>>1213868
Been there, that pic is literally 11/10 showing tram, trolley and funicular.

>>1213874
the bank owns the funicular, they bought it so that it wouldn't be shut down. A rare instance of a bank being kinda based.

>>1213880
Wait, that beast in >>1213469 is from the early 21th century? srsly? It looks like it's from the 80's.
>>
>>1213878
So the back unit is just a trailer but it has trolleypoles which are raised, and the front unit has its trolleypoles lowered and somehow connected to the trailer for power, did I get that right?
Fuck me that's awesome.

Also I find that getting information on trolleybuses is usually much harder than for trams. Trams are generally better documented on the interwebs. I've never found a proper trolleybus or tram-and-trolleybus map for moscow, although there are public transit maps to be found which do show trolleybus lines.
>>
File: 751596[1].jpg (348 KB, 1024x700)
348 KB
348 KB JPG
Lublin, Poland.
CIty of Lublin has a population about 350,000 and it is the largest city in Poland without tram network, however it operates an extensive trolleybus network.
Poland in general has never been very keen on trolleybuses, unlike its neighbouring countries like (former) Czechoslovakia or (former) USSR. Today there are only 3 trolleybus systems, in smaller cities of Tychy and Gdynia and this one in Lublin.
The Lublin network hasn't been very extensive until very recently. Buses used to be much more important 10 years ago and trolleybuses were just a minor side service. However today we can say it is probably the most fastly developed system in the EU.
>>
File: 1106284.gif (2.41 MB, 3000x4208)
2.41 MB
2.41 MB GIF
>>1213881
>Wait, that beast inis from the early 21th century? srsly? It looks like it's from the 80's.

Picture is 2003. Bus is 80's indeed.

>>1213882
>So the back unit is just a trailer but it has trolleypoles which are raised, and the front unit has its trolleypoles lowered and somehow connected to the trailer for power, did I get that right?
Basically yes, just that the back bus isn't a trailer but originally is also a fully operational normal bus. It's a unit of 2 normal trolleybuses, just as a unit of e.g. 2 trams type T3.

>I've never found a proper trolleybus or tram-and-trolleybus map for moscow, although there are public transit maps to be found which do show trolleybus lines.
If you mean a schematic map of lines, then I can't help, but if you want a map of the overhead network, then generally for Russian cities, the site Transphoto.ru is a good resource. See pic (stand for 1st May 2018, red are recently dismantled lines. Sad.)
>>
>>1213902
>the back bus isn't a trailer but originally is also a fully operational normal bus
cool af. But at that point, was it still an operational bus? It looks like it has no headlights. Also what are all those lines at the front of the trailer unit?

>if you want a map of the overhead network, then generally for Russian cities, the site Transphoto.ru is a good resource. See pic
thanks for that.
Damn that pic hurts my eyes, jesus fuck I didn't know it was that bad. What a waste.
>>
>>1213907
>But at that point, was it still an operational bus?
I guess it wasn't. According to this and some other pictures it was basically connected to this unit for a long time and the back bus was kinda transformed into this "always-dependent" bus. Something like a parasite that can't operate alone. AS you can see it has no headlights for example, probably also the driver's place was reduced. I am kinda curios if something similar could be applied also to the front bus, e.g. if the tail lights were reduced or the trolley poles. However it is hard to find any infos on this service. Also these kind of units were in service in other cities of ex-USSR, e.g. Kiev, Odessa, Sevastopol, Gorlovka, etc.

>Damn that pic hurts my eyes, jesus fuck I didn't know it was that bad. What a waste.
And this is just the most recent state. If there would be a map mapping last 3 years together you would see the huge damage together.
>>
File: damn_you_all_to_hell.gif (42 KB, 400x149)
42 KB
42 KB GIF
>>1213908
>And this is just the most recent state. If there would be a map mapping last 3 years together you would see the huge damage together.
>>
File: 651096.jpg (3.56 MB, 2996x3664)
3.56 MB
3.56 MB JPG
>>1213922
Map of Moscow system 2013 (blue are trolleybus, red are trams - notice that in previous map were no trams, so it might confuse a little)
Notice especially the reducion in the inner city. Basically the whole central part of the system was destroyed
>>
File: gulag.jpg (34 KB, 642x792)
34 KB
34 KB JPG
>>1213927
>>
>>1213927
You're right.
And do you know the fun fact? Mayor says that wires damages the historical sight of Moscow.
And trolleys are there since 1930's I believe...
>>1213832
Yep, it is more close to China now, considering 20+ stories nigger houses built right now.
And streets aren't wide enough considering density. And those streets were designed in soviet union, where cars were a luxury. And even in soviet unions there were traffic jams is some parts...
But originally Moscow were more European city. Look ar Germany - they have plattenbau, just as Moscow used to build, not higher that 5 stories (because otherwise elevator was required, and it is expensive).
>>
>>1214055
>wires damages the historical sight of Moscow.

He shows one and only thing by saying that. That he never traveled outside of Moscow to aby other European city. Bern, Prague, Milan, Budapest...all of them can happily live with tram and trolleybus wires in the cities and, with all respect, the value of their historical centres are much bigger than in case of Moscow.
I think the common consensus in developed world is that the most damage to historical value is masses of cars.
>>
>>1214055
>look at Germany
Well eastern Germany and all of the rest of the eastern bloc architecture after WWII was to some extent influenced by soviet architecture. The Karl-Marx-Allee in Berlin being one of the most striking example. So it's not really comparable.
However "plattenbau" was being built in the whole world in 60s to 80s basically. France, UK, Italy, even USA had them.
The thing is not the building type but the whole urbanism.
Russia built whole cities just on apaetment blocs and simple wide-street architecture. In Europe these apartment blocs were usually just a new part or new sattelite towns of otherwise older and bigger more complex cities.
In Russia these blocs basically became the synonym for the words house or building. Generations of people can't even imagine living in something different than apartment blocs. They are the only accessible type of living. That's why Moscow grows into something that reminds more of China than Europe.
>>
>>1214143
>>1214055
Either he is really, really retarded, or, more likely, it's just an excuse to remove trolleybuses under pressure from bus manufacturers (remember that buses don't last as long and have to be renewed much more often) and oil companies,
>>
File: 1189815.jpg (255 KB, 1024x683)
255 KB
255 KB JPG
In Czechia there are 14 trolleybus systems (included the small experimental Prague system) which makes it together with Switzerland and Italy one of the EU countries with the most trolleybus systems.
Typical for the country are trolleybuses from the production of Škoda, which used until 2004 bus bodies of their own production but now they produce trolleybuses by using other bus bodies from companies Solaris, Iveco and SOR (and some others). The models 9Tr were mass produced for other eastern bloc countries and you can see models 14Tr and 15Tr also in the USA.
Here is a picture from the smallest trolleybus system in Czechia. It is a town of Mariánské Lázně which has population only 13,000. However the buses run also to the neighbouring municipality of Velká Hleďsebe with 2,300 citizens. There are 4 lines in service, 1 of these lines use trolleybuses with diesel engine for running on sections without wires.
>>
>>1214198
>It is a town of Mariánské Lázně
As soon as I saw your pic related, I recognised that town. I've been to that town so many times, it's crazy. I somehow know it well enough to say that, that pic is taken on the line going back towards the station, and that the bus is between the park in that town and some of the bohemian buildings, including the hotels, particularly the Nové Lázne. I think the police station is across the road from that.
>1 of these lines use trolleybuses with diesel engine for running on sections without wires
Or because it goes to the Kaufland, which has no trolley wires, and the town decided that the trolleybus needs to be able to take passengers from the supermarket to the town...

I'm getting weird nostalgia now, since that's been a town I've been to several times throughout childhood on family holidays, and it's been several years since I was last there.
I know that the town is about 45 minutes by car away from the German border, specifically, the town of Selb, in northern Bavaria, a town known for its Rosenthal factory and the Thomas Group facilities.
>>
>>1214206
That's nice. Did you also visit some other trolleybus towns in Czechia or somewhere else? How would you compare them?
Me personally I was never in Mariánské Lázně but I heard it's little bit low on money (which is understandable as it is so small) but still it can afford some new bus here and there.
>>
>>1214213
In terms of trolleybuses, I can only compare them to a handful of other places, which are varied in what they are...

Compared to Plzen, the only other Czech city I've been to with trolleybuses (I was last in Prague in 2009, long before the trolleybus was reactivated there), and it's honestly been too long since I was last in Plzen to give you a proper answer.

Compared to Russian trolleybuses, it's far better than what is mostly Soviet era stuff. Last time I was on a Russian trolleybus was in 2010 though, so I can't say too much other than that I understand why many Russian cities are dismantling them. Both Moscow and Astrakhan were the ones I went to in 2010.

Ukrainian trolleybuses are mostly modern now. A lot of them are now Skoda made models or even Lviv Bus Factory models. I've really only been on the Kyiv, Odessa and Crimean Trolleybus systems. The new Lviv Bus Factory models are probably better than the Skoda ones, at least in terms of comfort, but the Skodas are much, much better than Soviet era trolleybuses or even the dreaded Marshrutka. I hear that since the annexation of Crimea, and the lack of new trolleybuses from either Skoda or Lviv, the Russians are replacing old, or even broken down trolleybuses with either Marshrutkas or just regular buses, since the spare parts won't go to Crimea either.

The only other trolleybuses I've been on have been Salzburg, which is a truly modernised trolleybus system and a great model to follow, and Basel, which is alright, but not as great as Salzburg. I have been on the Zürich trolleybus, but I was too young to remember it, since it was in the early 2000s.
>>
>>1214219
Basel shut down its trolleybus system in 2008, to instead focus only on trams and buses.
>>
Trolleybus KINO (spoiler: ending is very deep and heartbraking)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBq7gNTXJHI
>>
>>1214147
>or new sattelite towns
They existed, but they were 'connected' to Moscow, and rebuilt multiple times...
>In Russia these blocs basically became the synonym for the words house or building. Generations of people can't even imagine living in something different than apartment blocs.
True. But we have some 'suburbs' withing 1-2 hours from center, there some people live in houses, but it is inconvenient at all.
>>1214160
More likely his friend had bought a bus factory. Or some other reasons.
Don't forget, he wasn't born in Moscow, and everyone, who wasn't born in moscow (or st.ptrbrg) are jealous and hate Moscow citizens.
>>
File: 910003[1].jpg (276 KB, 1200x800)
276 KB
276 KB JPG
bump for the buses of trolley
>>
File: 846177[1].jpg (614 KB, 1200x795)
614 KB
614 KB JPG
I am not going to post the cities names
>>
File: 849810[1].jpg (655 KB, 1200x795)
655 KB
655 KB JPG
Instead you can try to guess the cities yourself
>>
File: 971484[1].jpg (338 KB, 1200x800)
338 KB
338 KB JPG
I will post the results later
>>
File: 1106630[1].jpg (439 KB, 1200x680)
439 KB
439 KB JPG
>>
File: 744607[1].jpg (578 KB, 1200x795)
578 KB
578 KB JPG
And last one
>>
>>1214975
I'd say this one's in Linz because it says on the fucking front of it kek
the other ones idk
>>
>>1215015
You're a smart boy aren't ya.
Yeah, that one was rather easy but I guess it is possible there are anons here who never heard about Linz, lol, so it might be interesting for them.
It's a Van Hool Exqui.City 24 model which is a damn nice and comfy trolleybus, I guess it could be a role model for new systems which might want to implement something like a light rail but without building railways.

The rest might try someone else.
>>
File: lightram06.jpg (135 KB, 990x450)
135 KB
135 KB JPG
>>1215087
I hate the look of those VanWhores, they look like wannabe trams, which makes me cringe. I prefer the Hess Lightram (though the naming is just as cringey).

Also we have three VanHool hybrid biarticulated units here in Barcelona, and they're the shittiest ever, they break down all the fucking time. Once one of them even broke down right on the tram tracks, ironically blocking the real tram.
But maybe I'm just butthurt at all the fucktards screaming about how we should just get those crapbuses instead of trams.
>>
File: 645076[1].jpg (530 KB, 1200x804)
530 KB
530 KB JPG
>>1215121
I feel what you are talking about, however this Van Hool is something I can still digest and it looks rather bussy instead of trammy. Also a big plus is that it is in service in a classical trolleybus system like Linz and not in those, as you say, cringy wanna-be tram systems without rails. So it does not pretend something, it simply exists.
More cringy are these Solaris "Metrostyle" trolleybuses IMHO
>>
>>1215189
I think your pic looks way more "bussy" than that VanHool, the front is more boxy, and they don't have those ultra-faggy wheel covers. Those and that pseudo-aerodynamic front really grind my gears, it's a fucking bus, you don't have to try to hide that, and it's not going to go more than 50, 60 km/h, it doesn't need to be aerodynamic. Trams get a pass because the "nose" usually hides the coupler (thought it's still kinda dumb), but aerodynamic urban buses are cringe af.
>>
>>1214972
Bro I don't think anyone is guessing, resolve pls
pretty pls
>>
>>1214969
Budapest
>>1214971
Vilnius
>>1214972
Sarajevo?
>>1214974
Kaunas
>>
>>1215813
true dat
one more is missing, can you guess? >>1214977
>>
File: 812380[1].jpg (379 KB, 1080x717)
379 KB
379 KB JPG
Few more cities to guess
>>
File: 631412[1].jpg (169 KB, 1024x683)
169 KB
169 KB JPG
>>1215881
>>
File: 906637[1].jpg (550 KB, 1200x800)
550 KB
550 KB JPG
>>1215882
>>
File: 891766[1].jpg (780 KB, 1200x800)
780 KB
780 KB JPG
>>1215885
>>
>>1215882
Lausanne? The destination sounds french, and I remember Lausanne still using trailers about year ago (prolly still do).

>>1215885
Warsaw?

>>1215889
dunno but that pic is PAINFULLY COMFY
>>
>>1215995
Lausanne is correct, rest not. Warsaw doesn't use trolleybuses.
>>
>>1215881
Szeged
>>1215885
Lublin
>>1215889
Chernivtsy?
>>
>>1216621
Szeged good, second totally wrong, third is correct country
>>
>>1216622
Ah shit, I overlooked the accent on the A. Has to be Czechia, Slovakia or Hungary
>>
>>1216625
It is Czechia, Hradec Králové

>>1215889
this is Lviv, Ukraine

>>1214977
Žilina, Slovakia
>>
>>1215881
>Tram AND Trollybus sharing the same RoW

Absolute madmen
>>
>>1218291
It's a good trick
>>
File: 474338[1].jpg (110 KB, 900x603)
110 KB
110 KB JPG
>>1218291
Works all around the world, SF included. Although it is "just" the F line.

San Francisco is a good example how an US city with developed public transport network works - the government just does not develop it at all and citizens will sooner or later just rather get to cars.
>>
>>1218444
BTW, the trolleybus in the photo from SF is the same type as this >>1215889 or this >>1214971
>>
File: forchstrasse.jpg (408 KB, 1024x768)
408 KB
408 KB JPG
>>1218291
the same setup can be found in a few spots around zurich
>>
>>1212127
I wish such trolleybuses were in Moscow...
>>
>>1220111
>Tы нa чeм пpиeдeшь, нa coляpиce (Hyundai accent)?
>*пpиeзжaeт нa coляpиce (тpoллeйбyc)*
>>
>>1218444
How does that work with the overhead wires? Wouldn't the trolleybus and trams be incompatible with each other?
>>
>>1220223
Пpoигpaл
>>
>>1214975
>Linz has double articulated trolleybuses, despite having trams on the actually important routes
>Salzburg does their entire urban transit with buses, yet only runs single articulated
What did they mean by this?
>>
>>1220255
There are still different wires for bus and tram. They just must be in such a distance away from each other, that the tram pantograph does not touch the trolleybus wires.
San Francisco is a little special story as the F tram line operates only heritage trams with trolley poles I think. That makes it easier to arrange the wires.
>>
>>1220255
Going further into detail from that other anon >>1221601
in cases other than San Francisco, the trolleybus wires are offset to the side and slightly higher than the tram wires. So the trolleypoles are constantly skewed away from the trolleybus when on those stretches, not a problem tho because of the margin for movement of a trolleybus from beneath its wires. The trolleybus wires are also slightly higher so that the tram pantograph wouldn't accidentally touch the trolleybus wires. In most of those cases where trams and trolleys share a ROW, they usually share the electrical system as well.

In San Francisco the heritage trams actually use the powered wire from the trolleybus, the only such case I know of anywhere in the world. So they not only share the electrical system, but also the powered wire.
>>
>>1212820
Sandon has a fleet of old BC Hydro Brill buses
>>
File: 230615-sandon2.jpg (666 KB, 1949x1085)
666 KB
666 KB JPG
>>1224140
>>
>>1211077
On your typical euro BRT bus route along reasonably flat landscape, you can get away awith charging only at the termini + a couple charging points around the hardest parts of the routes (hilly and congested areas) in case a bus needs to top off.
Gonna have to wait and see what real life running costs end up being but it looks like we finally have a cheaper than tramway while just as virtuous (from an electoral point of view) solution for mid size cities. Thank god for the end of tram mania.
>>
>>1224149
>don't know if troll or unironic retard
>>
>>1224167
Where would you place "person with relevant experience in the field"? Probably gonna have to say I'm a retard but guess what? The transportation industry is a retarded economical and political mess, such is the truth (I'm refering to western first wirld countries here, NA and EU basically).
>>
>>1212820
I think its awesome that vancouver has those rack things to put your bike on.
>>
>>1224190
what major city doesn't???
>>
>>1224188
>"euro BRT"
>talking about cost without taking into account throughput, capacity requirements, or available space (and would render subways as a terribad option every single time)
>le tram mania (ie incapable of differentiating meme trams from proper light rail systems)
>"person with relevant experience in the field"
with fucktards like you being "relevant" no wonder the field is a mess kek
>>
>>1224248
Let me get you a reality check:
-diesel got a shit rep atm, so much than diesel-electrics hybrids are already obsolete from an ecological virtue point of view.
- 10~15 years ago, everyone wanted a tram. Now everyone realised a tram makes no sense most of the time and costs a shit ton to build and run.
- Whatever you wanna do, city and regional councils are the one who are gonna pay for it, the industry is just there to execute.

So yeah, indeed the most efficient real life system is to spam buses on tight headways, just give them a right of way in the densest areas and you're good. Good luck finding a politician endorsing that.

Sorry real life isn't a 2D transportation game kiddo. If the batteries hold their promises quick charging electro buses are here to stay.
>>
>>1224268
>10~15 years ago, everyone wanted a tram. Now everyone realised a tram makes no sense most of the time
if your country is full of retards like you who wanted their meme tram loop through gentrified downtown that's not the fault of the concept of the modern LRT.

>efficient
>buses on tight headways
pants on head retarded. If you weren't a pathetic larper you'd know that bus headway peak is around 3 minutes for your average european-style city, and even 3 minutes is already dangerously high and can easily lead to bunching, which will fuck up your schedule and regularity. And if this tight headway is achieved by combining several lines it's even harder to keep up regularity, so the lines need full on ROW even on the branches with much lower frequency, contrary to the bs you're spouting. That in turn means expense, road space use and low frequency.
All of that to get a throughput of at the very most 180 pax/bus when using biarticulated buses, less than half of the 400+ pax of a 50 or 60m LRT unit.

>Sorry real life isn't a 2D transportation game kiddo.
Nice projection, you can stop larping now, kiddo.
>>
>>1224281
>3 min meme
No an issue with buses because buses can overtake each other effortlessly.
Back when my line ran standard buses travel times were shorter than now it's got fancy hybrid articulated, because back then you'd usually skip a quarter to a third of the stops because there's already another bus there and noone wants off.
And 60m LRTs don't compete with buses lmao. Go tell cities that invested in the overly interfaced 30m tram network meme how good they have it now that some of them have to majorly redesign some junctions to scrape off a few seconds (and those stuck with subefficient systems because they ran out of money and can fix such switching areas on their networks).
>>
>>1224330
>bus ROW
>buses can overtake each other
jfc just stop, you're embarrassing yourself

>my line
wait, so your "relevance" is just being a fucking bus driver? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>1224420
Not the bus drivre you're arguing with but
>buses can't overtake each other on BRT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dQ72bDKPGg
Oh, would you look at that, buses overtaking each other. Also, buses being horribly congested. Imagine.
>>
>>1224420
Wait, there are bus drivers who only work on one single line? How dull
>>
>>1224442
>four-lane ROW to achieve LRT tier capacity
Granted, it's possible with one of those, but that's so incredibly wasteful and inefficient it makes no sense whatsoever in a city with even a minimum of density. In euro style cities one big issue is usage of road space, so an LRT even moving just the same amount of people as a 4-lane BRT is a huge benefit, so it makes sense even if cost per pax were higher (which it isn't).

Also, buses overtaking each other is not even a solution to bunching. If you have two buses that should run 3 minutes apart and one is right behind the other, how does overtaking solve this?
>>
>>1224420
Nah I'm only an occasionnal bus rider, cause I enjoy being able to get drunk and high outside and be able to come back to my bed in the middle of the night or early morning.
Been mildly involved in an electric bus feasibility/cost study couple years back (bottom line: yes it's still a bus, it's a pricey one, there's a non negligible risk towards battery life considering many drivers will hoon them around, but if you want the ecological electoral good point and can't shell out for a properly thought out tram/lrt, that's what you'll get).
And if you're thinking about building a 30m-tram based system, stop right now and get buses unless you're positively certain you'll have the demand to run them on sub 5 minutes headway within the next 20 years.

Also, a bus can leave its ROW (unlike a tram), you definitely don't need to give them 4 lanes to allow them to overtake. Just explain to your drivers how to check a mirror and light an indicator.

>>1224464
On bigger networks, drivers usually end up running on only a few different lines, those running the buses they're trained on out of the depot they're based at usually ("my" line is the only of the area running hybrid Iveco Urbanway 18s, and while most of the drivers are qualified for the standard Irisbuses that everyone starts and most of them also drive on the other articulated equipped line of the depot, which runs Citaro C2Gs, you tend to see the same faces often).
>>
Cont'd from >>1224697

>>1224480
The trick to the overtake model is to litterally spam buses. During rush hour most of the heavy lines will practice "salvo departures" (on an A-B line with a halfway terminus H, you'd first send an A-H limited service and as soon as it leaves, the A-B full service docks in its place to leave 2 minutes behind. If possible, you're also gonna want to have a H-B limited leaving just before the full service reaches the halfway terminus.
That way:
>A-H leaves first carrying half of the people waiting at the A terminus and proceeds to go down the line, finding mostly stops with people wanting to board or alight
>A-B pulls up to the dock, it fills up to near max capacity but the route is mostly empty of waiting passengers as there's been a bus passing through instants before, you'll still stop on most of the third part of the route, as some people missed the previous bus or didn't board it because they want to go past H). At some point however, you're very likely to come up to a stop, see the previous bus take every waiting passenger and have no one wanting to alight. At this point you overtake.
>Now the situation is reversed, the A-B service will open the way, filling up at nearly every stop. Meanwhile the A-H follows in a trail of mostly empty stops, stopping at most of them to alight as you near the Halfway terminus. A-H gets lighter from then on, and might get a chance to overtake A-B but at this point it doesn't matter too much.
>A-B reaches H... and finds it mostly empty (maybe some dudes from the A-H if it managed to overtake again, or if no overtaking happened at all) since the H-B service just left and will fulfill the exact same role as A-H did on the first half of the line.
>>
Cont'd from cont'd >>1224704

You can add more buses and intermediate termini at leisure. The key to this is that every bus on the line is gonna eventually skip some stops (overtaking is just a side effect), bettering the commercial speed and thus the capacity of the system.
The operator of my line waited until 4-bus trains became a common occurence to upgrade to articulated.

And as a conclusion, I'll invite you to push this concept to the max and remove the driver (shit's expensive yo, that's the downside of the spam bus model). What do you get? Near point-to-point fast transportation. Just like those madmen projects of autonomous pod transportation in the 80s (which were mostly a nightmare mechanically and electronically). When we get the batteries/alternative energy source and level 5 automation, we'll be able to build these things. And they'll be great.
Think I'm done here, that's both my point of view and where the industry is headed and I'll be sure to find work designing such a system once it'll be available, which should happen before I retire.

See ya round fuckers I'll stick back to big trains threads, urban transit is an awful can of worm.
>>
>>1224697
>nd if you're thinking about building a 30m-tram based system
Kindly stop strawmanning. From the start I said that meme trams are shite. Modern LRTs ofc only make sense for large vehicles, that's the very point of an LRT over a bus. I'm talking at least 50m, preferrably 60. Btw LRT can leave its ROW as well, it just needs some tracks in the street which isn't like the apex of expense. It's just that any smartly designed LRT will have full-on ROW to get the most out of the investment. Just like a ROW for buses is not the smartest investment, since it makes costs skyrocket into the vicinity of an LRT but getting much less out of it. BRT is just as big a meme as meme trams. You either go with a bus lane, or upgrade to LRT.
>>
>>1224704
>>1224708
That sounds third-world-tier impractical and inefficient. Much better to have a properly coordinated system without "spamming" anything.
>>
File: sg_sw.jpg (474 KB, 1600x1200)
474 KB
474 KB JPG
some OC
>>
>>1225005
Solingen is running Swisstrolleys eh? You know since when?
Also I'm guessing this is a hybrid operation where part of the line runs on battery without catenary?
>>
>>1224697
Locally, because of bus driver shortage, some bus companies have computerized driver assignment process and let the system decide who will run what, and then staff at each terminal can also change the assignment based on situation on the ground. So while drivers could still have some lines that they drive more frequently, they aren't permanently fixated to them
>>
>>1224238
>what major city doesn't???
Most Asian cities
>>
>>1225108
i see
>>
>>1225013
Wiki (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberleitungsbus_Solingen) says they have been in service since 2009. It made it possible to extend the line on both ends and increase the attractivity of the line. The narrow streets in Burg on one end didn't allow to build a new terminal loop, on the other end in Vohwinkel the railway bridge over the street leading up to the station wasn't high enough for trolley wires. The foto is taken just as the bus left the underpass in Vohwinkel, coming from the railway station.
>>
File: arnhem.jpg (476 KB, 990x660)
476 KB
476 KB JPG
In the Netherlands, Arnhem has an extensive trolley-bus system. Was intended to be light rail; but due to the war a bus system was more convenient.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnhemse_trolleybus
>>
>>1225182

this is how Arnhem Central Station looks like
>>
>>1225183
Arnhem is really nice.
>>
File: rotating trolleybus.webm (1.11 MB, 400x300)
1.11 MB
1.11 MB WEBM
>>1225180
>The narrow streets in Burg on one end didn't allow to build a new terminal loop
...as a replacement of the turntable, that wasn't long enough for articulated buses.
>>
>>1220949
Linz actually has very sparse tram network for the city of its size (bigger than Salzburg), the trolleybus lines in Linz are also very busy and important.
Salzburg on the other hand has pretty dense and frequent trolleybus network, that is maybe why single articulated buses are enough as each line serves smaller ammount of people. However as far as I know even Salzburg wants to buy double articulates.
>>
File: MM00269724.jpg (118 KB, 675x465)
118 KB
118 KB JPG
New Pyongyang tram and trolleybus?
>>
>>1225573
>double articulates.
Either Berlin or Hamburg tried those out and is now trying to get rid of them. Singly-articulated busses are maintenance-heavy enough. With double articulated busses, the problem isn't doubled, but squared. So they sit around in the workshop for most of the time.
>>
>>1225742
moar pics and info pls
>>
>>1225742
Not sure about the trolleybus but the tram is almost 100% sure just an upgraded and facelifted Czechoslovak Tatra KT8D5
>>
File: 0115709_735.jpg (127 KB, 675x465)
127 KB
127 KB JPG
>>1225950
Probably? Not sure
>>1225895
http://www.mfa.gov.kp/en/watches-new-type-trolley-bus-and-tram/
You can also check the KCNA article 경애하는 최고령도자김정은동지께서 새형의 무궤도전차와 궤도전차를 보시였다
>>
File: 0115709_744.jpg (84 KB, 675x465)
84 KB
84 KB JPG
>>1225958
*Search for the word "tram" in DPRK's MFA site if the link fail
>>
>>1225958
I cannnot speak Koreanese and I am definitely smart enough not to believe anything from north korean media which is majority bullshit propaganda. That tram is just "upgraded" KT8D5.
>>
>>1226722
>>1225950
>He was pleased to listen to the report made by officials that they installed alternating current electric motor with less manufacturing and operational costs and introduced electric motor control converter and control software to the new-type tram so as to improve the specific features of its mobility, speed and brake and to serve the conveniences of passengers, and that they ensured the local production of most of mechanical and electric fittings and outfits including glass, rear-view mirror, floor rubber, plastic decorative plywood and chairs.
Reading between the lines it does sound like it's a rebuilt Tatra. Nothing wrong with that tho, KT8D5s are at most some 35 years old, they've got at least a good 20-30 years left if they're upgraded and rebuilt.

Nork trolleybus looks breddy gud, I wonder if it has decent build quality, they've been building trolleys for quite some time now.
>>
>>1226752
I thought those trolleys were imported from China? Could be assembled in DPRK but still
>>
>>1227068
No idea, could be, but according to the interwebs NK has been "producing" trolleys since the 1960s, so it doesn't seem unlikely that they've gotten to the point of building them themselves. Or maybe they just import the electrical system and the chassis is built in NK. Would be intredasting to have proper info on it, but we'll likely never know for sure.
>>
>>1227096
Half years ago some China-sponsored foreign media, when reporting another news related to Pyongyang trolleybus factory, cited South Korean media info saying they want to boost domestic production and boycott Chinese products, so that's that
>>
>>1226752
>nork trolleybus look pretty good

Judging from the single photo posted here:
Not lowfloor
Wheel axles look like from some 70's bus at best
The trolleypoles are also outdated as hell

Its a 70's trolleybus with a plastic face
>>
>>1228161
>Its a 70's trolleybus with a plastic face
and that's bad because....?
>>
>>1215813

>>1214974
>Kaunas

But the license plate looks exacly like a swedish one. Fascinating.
>>
>>1228205
Because that makes in an outdated chink crap, not a "bretty good trolleybus"
>>
Remember Wellington, the extensive trolleybus system in New Zealand that suddenly got dismantled a year ago?
The main argument was that the vehicles are getting old and they better renew the fleet with meme buses like hybrid or battery ones.
Well the plan of course fell off and what remained was one of the "old" trolleybuses getting expensively rebuilt to a battery bus. Now prepar3 yourself- the battery bus can run only 135km after one charging, in "ideal" environment, which means simple terrain, little traffic etc. That does not happen in New Zealand, the reality will be much worse.
The decision is now to rebuild 50 old trolleybuses to battert buses, plus of course built all the necessary charging infrastructure. Instead of easy operating fast trolleybuses, they will have heavy outdated battery buses which cost twice the price and after every run they need to stop for 30 minutes to recharge. Well done, kiwis, well done.
>>
>>1228621
>waaah it doesn't conform to our modern standards even though it does the job perfectly waaaaaaah le chink crap
wew
>>
>>1230714
> it does the job perfectly

This is where I disagree with you.
>>
>>1230743
There's cities around the world running trams and trolleybuses from the 70's and earlier, and they do the job perfectly. Anything to back up your point that an outdated trolleybus won't do the job in NK?
>>
>>1230699
not surprised/10
>*oil industry rubbing hands together in the distance*
>>
>>1230758
First of all, keeping running an old vehicle because it still runs good is one thing but producing a "brand new" vehicle that has the same or even worse standards is another thing.

And then - what do you call "doing the job perfectly" in your opinion? In the case of trolleybus I see the "perfect job" in being easily accesible for all people (AKA lowfloor), being efficient when it comes to electrical equipment, having the highest safety standards etc etc.
A 70's bus with plastic faces made in China and then stick together in some poor NK factory do not meet these standards. It will continue to do the same shitty job the old buses do and it will eventually in few years fall apart, screencap this.
>>
>>1230789
>producing a "brand new" vehicle that has the same or even worse standards is another thing
You're imposing some arbitrary standards of quality based on what your country would expect. For an underdeveloped country to produce something that may be on the level of a 70's bus (and that's basing your viewpoint on one or two low-quality pictures) is a respectable achievement, and certainly better than nothing at all, like so many underdeveloped countries.

>I see the "perfect job" in being easily accesible for all people (AKA lowfloor)
Public transit wasn't accessible for the longest time, and society was still functioning, and in many countries around the world it still isn't, even in many first-world countries. Considering the type of society that NK is it's absurd to think that they're going to care all too much about wheelchair accessibility and the like. Again, you're imposing your own standards on an underdeveloped country with entirely different values. Doing the job means moving people and especially workers, and in that sense it certainly is doing the job.

>A 70's bus with plastic faces made in China and then stick together in some poor NK factory do not meet these standards. It will continue to do the same shitty job the old buses do and it will eventually in few years fall apart
source: your ass

I see you're just one more of those people who get massively butthurt at nk for being le evil commies and not following your globalist standards. It's not our job to judge north korean society or values. It's an underdeveloped, totalitarian country, everyone knows as much. And in that situation, it's respectable that they're able to produce functional trolleybuses. I've yet to see an african nation getting anywhere close to the capacity of NK. Where's your outrage about Africans being incapable to build anything, and not having low-floor transports?
>>
>>1230799
>For an underdeveloped country
Talking about a country that is producing nuclear weapons, have a functional (although outdated) railway and metro system, roleplays as the paradise on the Earth.

>respectable achievement
Not respectable at all. The whole thing looks like something made out of the old bus which was then plastically redesigned with parts maybe imported from China. And the press is lying and lying. No respect. No achievment.


All this discussion started with a post of an Anon who said the bus looks bretty good whom I disagree with as it does not look pretty good. If we can agree on the thing it is a shit that at least runs (hopefully, who knows) then we can finish this stupid argument.

>source: your ass
Still better source than the DPRK news agency
>>
>>1230799
>And in that situation, it's respectable that they're able to produce functional trolleybuses.

They were on the same level as South Korea 60 years ago. for next decades they were able to keep up with USSR or China. Now you are comparing them with the worst African 3rd world countries, well done, Kim.

If their news said something like "we are glad we can produce something that runs on electricity and has wheels" and there were no commie shills on this board that would celebrate the same as the bigest success ever, then I would be indifferent. But in this situation the reality has to be spoken: It is shit.
>>
>>1230808
>Talking about a country that is producing nuclear weapons, have a functional (although outdated) railway and metro system,
You mean like Russia or Iran?
>roleplays as the paradise on the Earth.
You mean like every country ever?

>All this discussion started with a post of an Anon who said the bus looks bretty good whom I disagree with as it does not look pretty good.
And here you are half a dozen posts later going full autismo because someone has a different opinion that you. Congrats?

>>1230810
>They were on the same level as South Korea 60 years ago. for next decades they were able to keep up with USSR or China. Now you are comparing them with the worst African 3rd world countries, well done, Kim.
Yes, who would have thought that a country that becomes almost completely isolated after the eastern block collapses would end up on the level of an underdeveloped country. And still they're doing better than Africa.

>If their news said something like "we are glad we can produce something that runs on electricity and has wheels" and there were no commie shills
seriously, why are you so butthurt at north korea? wtf is wrong with you people that you sperg out whenever someone mentions that north korea achieved something as basic as a simple trolley bus? I can picture you screaming at a 5 year old child because he drew a picture badly, and anyone who tells the kid he did well you call a commie shill. That's what you sound like.
>>
>>1230829
>You mean like Russia or Iran?
Yes. Russia produces lowfloor trolleybuses normally. Iran destroyed its trolleybus system, however they develop meto systems and have no problem importing standard modern vehicles.

>You mean like every country ever?
No, North Korea is a level of its own.

>going full autismo
Says a North Korea excuser who thinks, that producing a shit outdated technology and roleplaying its a great succes is actually OK.

>why are you so butthurt at north korea?
I dont give a fuck about north korea, I care about you north kroean internet defense force. I think a labour camp would be a better place for you.

> I can picture you screaming at a 5 year old child because he drew a picture badly, and anyone who tells the kid he did well you call a commie shill.
If a parent of that kid excuses the little kids drawing that he is a new Da Vinci and the shitty painting achieves the same level as Mona Lisa because after all "they are all just a drawings", then I would gladly start an argument with that parent.
>>
>>1230789
>Caring about "easily accessible for all people" in a city where only selected class of people can be allowed to access or live inside
heh
>>1230799
>For an underdeveloped country to produce something that may be on the level of a 70's bus
If only you can count that as their own production
>>1230829
>eastern block
You need better English skill to complete your job as a shill
>>
>>1230834
>>1230845
OP here, thanks for derailing the thread, fuckface.

everyone pls stop replying to the troll kthxbai
>>
>>1230851
If it wasn't for this small flamewar, this thread would be literally dead, dear OP. Check the post dates 14 posts before and thank me later.
>>
>>1230901
There's posts from 08/28 talking about the wellington system (RIP), so stfu
>>
>>1231160
And nobody replied to that (it is my post as well btw)
You didn't care about this thread until now where you can show the whole world you are the smartest self-righteous person ever with rejection of a stupid flamewar. You've showed us, OP!
Since now, anything I will post here I will also sage. Let's see how long does the thread survive.
>>
File: suggestion1.jpg (46 KB, 651x768)
46 KB
46 KB JPG
>>1231168
I replied to that post, idiot, and I've been posting itt throughout. You must be really fucking new here if you think the thread is going to die because it goes a few days without anyone posting.
>>
>>1212031
And in Hungary too.
The pic you posted shows a Hungarian one, with modified headlights originally designed for Ikarus buses. (These modifications of trolleybuses were common in all cities.)
>>
>>1213039
I found it much less complicated after I could get in there with simple Russian visa instead of an Ukrainian one.
>>
File: ets_6000.jpg (103 KB, 700x517)
103 KB
103 KB JPG
>>1210629
>city got rid of trolleybus system about 10 years ago because they were too lazy and cheap to buy new buses and instead were using 40 year old new looks
feels bad man
>>
File: 1_20130629142124954.jpg (226 KB, 640x427)
226 KB
226 KB JPG
>>1213878

Idritvaimicītņihujase, izrādās es neesmu vienīgais latvijietis kurš lasa šo dēli ^^

The last 14Tr and 15Tr were retired from revenue service around 2015. They werent't ridiculously old vehicles for a not-so-first-world city: a good bunch of 14Tr were from 1998. Also, unlike 9Tr, they weren't clumsy in traffic. I do miss the enjoyment of their 80s look and the noise their motors were making at higher speeds.
I saw some 14Tr still being used for learner's driving last year, not sure if they still do it now.

>numbers on Wikipedia are just super wrong as sometimes they count only length of the overhead wires network, sometimes the length of the lines
True, btw this happens with trams too.

However, even if you'd try your best in getting an accurate total length of all routes for benchmarking like this, what would you do when some routes are partially overhead, partially battery or, as in the case of Riga, diesel-generator powered?

Pic related is a stop on one of these sections, the one and only stop in Riga shared by busses, trams and trolleybusses.

Anyway, at the moment there are 17 routes. Some of them are the public transport backbone for respective neighbourhoods, some are rather short and/or weird and/or not very busy (there were more of such, but those had been gradually shut down since the 90s, another two got closed recently; however, most of those were overlapping with other routes, hence, these closures meant only a minuscule loss of the overhead infrastructure), some are something inbetween. There are no plans to considerably shrink the network, yet I can see some further "optimisation" taking place, i.e. another few less-busy routes getting merged or closed.
>>
What's /n/'s consensus on trolleybus lines that run partly without wires? Is it a worthwhile trade-off to cheaply extend trolleybus lines, or do the additional batteries or auxiliary motors make it not worth it?
>>
Abandoned experimental double decker trolleybus
>>
>>1237870
Good, but couple kilometers of copper wire should be cheaper, than battery powered trolley
>>
>>1238108
>copper wire

Also hundreds of concrete poles, system of energy supply to the network or switches. All of this is expensive as hell.

If the batteries on the bus get to the point when they are really reliable, not very heavy and will provide quick and automated and simple recharging, then I guess the "partial electrobuses" are the way to go instead of new full trolleybus systems
>>
>>1238156
>Also hundreds of concrete poles, system of energy supply to the network or switches. All of this is expensive as hell.

It's no more expensive than installing street lights.
>>
File: trc-06-bellariva.jpg (164 KB, 1000x560)
164 KB
164 KB JPG
What do you think of the new Rimini-Riccione "metrò di coste" aka BRT trolleybus system?

Rimini is an Italian city at the Adriatic coast which creates an extensive metro area with neighbouring coast towns. Since 1939 there is in operation a trolleybus system which connects Rimini and Riccione with one long line number 11 along the beaches.
Since last 6 years the locals constructed a new full BRT trolleybus system paralel to the old trolleybus line however not operationaly connected to the old system. The line basically creates the same connection, goes on the brand new BRT corridor. It is also paralel to the railway line which goes closely to it and operates also commuter services.
The BRT corridor however does not allow frequency higher than 8 minutes because the corridor is because of narrow road on like half of the route operational only with one vehicle going through the section.

The whole nonsense which cost a lot of money but does not bring any better service to the old trolleybus line and copies a commuter railway line is a threat to the old trolleybus system which is now redundant. The old system however connected also the central towns but the new BRT goes only train station to train station.
>>
>>1238267
Eh, it's somewhat more expensive because you need electric substantions or transformers or whatever they're called, since trolleybuses use high-voltage DC and much more power than street lights.
>>
>>1238156
>Also hundreds of concrete poles
They already exist, lighting and stuff. Also you can use buildings to hang wiring.
> system of energy supply to the network or switches
Yes, this cost something, but not too expensive.
>>
>>1239360
>they already exist
Wires require reinforced poles.

>not too expensive
You have no idea.
>>
File: wires.jpg (190 KB, 1000x750)
190 KB
190 KB JPG
>>1239395
>Wires require reinforced poles.
In my area all light poles are skookum.
And you can hang that wiring on buildings, no joke (pic related)
>You have no idea.
Really, just a transformer, couple interrupters and rectifier.
Sure they are expensive, but they last 50-80 years no problem.
Much cheaper and more efficient compared to battery powered gimmicks
>>
>>1237870
Essentially depends just on how the given city or transport company prefers to spend their money, unless there are some physical limitations as in >>1225005 >>1225180

In this case >>1235503 regarding that one generator powered section in downtown they said they didn't want wires for aesthetic reasons.
>>
>>1239450
Do all bus stops in your city have neither their names nor route numbers on them?
>>
File: IMG_20180930_175029.jpg (1.35 MB, 4160x3120)
1.35 MB
1.35 MB JPG
St. Petersburg trolleybus oc. Will try and snap some more oc over the next few days.
>>
File: image.png (1.6 MB, 1200x727)
1.6 MB
1.6 MB PNG
>>1230699
Almost the same thing in Moscow. Our stupid mayor, who has already destroyed a significant part of the trolleybus network replacing its routes with diesel buses, right before his re-election launched battery buses on the 73 trolley route. That kind of bus broke down right with the mayor on board. Generally these battery buses are quite unstable and break constantly. Also there will be needed 60 battery buses to serve this route instead of 26 trolleys as they need to be recharged. As for interest, I went to the route terminus and I saw only trolleys, as they're stable and more reliable.
>>
>>1243020
Yes, these thing are just stupid. I wish they hire me as an engineer, I would be better than them.
>>
>>1243023
This has nothing to do with engineering, it's all politics, m8.
>>
File: IMG_20181003_133423.jpg (1.87 MB, 4160x3120)
1.87 MB
1.87 MB JPG
Restored trolleybus from 1936, at the St. Petersburg electric transport museum. According to them, it's the only operational pre-war trolleybus in the world.
>>
File: IMG_20181003_123145.jpg (1.21 MB, 3120x4160)
1.21 MB
1.21 MB JPG
St. Petersburg trolleybus interior. All surface transports in SPB have conductors. In case anyone's interested, they make 36K rub/month, about 500 euros. They're hiring, if anyone's interested.
>>
File: IMG_20181003_214356_1.jpg (1.49 MB, 3120x4160)
1.49 MB
1.49 MB JPG
A bit more SPB oc I snapped on the fly. I cranked up the brightness so the poles and cable hangers would be visible.
>>
File: IMG_20181002_134735.jpg (1.19 MB, 4160x3120)
1.19 MB
1.19 MB JPG
Three trolleys in a row.
>>
File: IMG_20181004_154253.jpg (1010 KB, 2268x2161)
1010 KB
1010 KB JPG
Some moar Moscow.
>>
File: IMG_20181004_152419_1.jpg (1.31 MB, 3120x4160)
1.31 MB
1.31 MB JPG
Up close.
>>
File: 20181007_162637.jpg (1.91 MB, 2016x1134)
1.91 MB
1.91 MB JPG
Also Moscow
>>
Why the hell does Moscow have articulated buses, but no articulated trolleybuses?
>>
>>1245208
It has/had, but they are rare.
>>
File: 281227.jpg (341 KB, 1024x689)
341 KB
341 KB JPG
>>1245208
Because firstly Moscow mayor wants to destroy trolleybus, secondly generally there are less articulated vehicles, even buses.
Some trolleybus routes in Moscow, for example M4 which I often ride, vitally need articulated trolleys, but there are only single trolleybuses. They often result overcrowded and you might stand for the whole way.
>>
>>1212079
this is the most russian post I've seen in a long time, feels good. Cyka Blyat
>>
>>1212079
>>1245298
Those russian trolleybuses seemed like mighty fine vehicles to me. Shame that they didn't get more of them instead of shutting down trolleybus lines.

fwiw they seemed to me quite more flexible in traffic than diesel buses, thanks to their quick acceleration. They feel much lighter and agile in movement, at least as a passenger's perception.
>>
File: IMG_20181017_003201_293.jpg (101 KB, 1280x930)
101 KB
101 KB JPG
>>1246677
I wish Moscow starts to produce a new signature trolleybus model, which is special for Moscow. As Moscow trolley network is the biggest in the world, I think it deserves a trolleybus made specially for Moscow.
>>
>>1247083
10/10 would autism
>>
>>1247105
That's true maybe...
>>
>>1247083
>Moscow trolley network is the biggest in the world

Soon to be not true
>>
>>1247333
It was first like this
http://transphoto.ru/photo/552324
Now it's like this
http://transphoto.ru/photo/1106284
(Fuck 4chan, it doesn't take big pictures unlike 2ch, the russian board)
>>
File: Tram.jpg (51 KB, 660x371)
51 KB
51 KB JPG
>>1210629
Why Trolleybuses Declined So Suddenly
Pt.1
Comparison w/ Trams

Note: As there are numerous variations of light-rail & tram tech, the disadvantages may be applicable only w/ a specific design or tech

Difficulties w/ platform loading - Implementation of a level platform loading w/ minimal gap, either at the design stage or afterwards, is easier & less costly to implement w/ rail vehicles.

Higher rolling resistance - Rubber-tired vehicles generally have more rolling resistance than steel wheels, which decreases energy efficiency.

Less efficient use of right-of-way - Lanes must be wider for unguided buses than streetcars, as unguided buses can drift side-to-side. The use of guidance rail allows trams running in parallel lines to pass closer together than drivers could safely steer.

More control required - Trolleybuses must be driven like the motorbuses, requiring directional control by the driver.
>>
File: Motorbus.jpg (2.58 MB, 3518x1709)
2.58 MB
2.58 MB JPG
>>1248014
Pt. 2
Comparison w/ Motorbuses
Aesthetics - The jumble of overhead wires may be perceived as unsightly. Intersections often have a webbed ceiling appearance, due to multiple crossing & converging sets of trolley wires.

Dewirements - Trolley poles sometimes come off of the wire. Dewirements are relatively rare in modern systems w/ well-maintained overhead wires, hangers, fittings, & contact shoes. Trolleybuses are equipped w/ special insulated pole ropes which drivers use to reconnect the trolley poles w/ the overhead wires. When approaching switches, trolleybuses usually must decelerate in order to avoid dewiring, & this deceleration can potentially add slightly to traffic congestion.

Difficult to re-route - When compared to motorbuses, trolleybuses have greater difficulty w/ permanent or temporary re-routings, wiring for which is not usually readily-available outside of downtown areas where the buses may be re-routed via adjacent business area streets where other trolleybus routes operate.

Overhead wires create more obstruction - Trolleybus systems employ overhead wires above the roads used by the trolleybuses. The wires can restrict tall motor vehicles such as delivery trucks & double-decker buses from crossing or using roads fitted w/ overhead wires, as such vehicles would hit the wires or pass dangerously close to them, risking damage & dangerous electrical faults. The wires also may create a hazard to activities such as road repairs using tall excavators or piling rigs, use of scaffolding, EtC.

Trolleybuses are used extensively in large European cities, such as Athens, Belgrade, Bratislava, Bucharest, Budapest, Chisinau, Kiev, Lyon, Milan, Minsk, Moscow, Riga, St. Petersburg, Sofia, Tallinn, Varna, Vilnius, & Zurich, as well as smaller ones such as Arnhem, Bergen, Coimbra, Gdynia, Kaunas, Lausanne, Limoges, Luzern, Modena, Piatra Neamț, Plzeň, Prešov, Salzburg, Solingen, Szeged, Târgu Jiu, & Yalta.
>>
File: Malatya.jpg (95 KB, 752x395)
95 KB
95 KB JPG
>>1248018
Pt. 3/3

Transit authorities in some cities, wanting to add or expand the use of 0-emission vehicles in an urban environment, have opened new systems or are planning new systems. For example, new systems opened in Lecce, Italy, in 2012, & in Malatya, Turkey, in 2015.
>>
File: _DSC0247.jpg (3.6 MB, 4608x3072)
3.6 MB
3.6 MB JPG
good night sweet prince
the only half-decent photo I have baka.
>>
>>1250014
F
>>
>>1250014
Why did they close the network? It's quite strange that they shut down the trolleybus, while most cities that have them try to modernize them and extend. (Yeah, also Moscow trolleybus is being shut down, but it's fucking Russia, while New Zealand, in my opinion, should be more civilised...)
>>
>>1210629
This is a problem of capability. At first in early 20th century only tram can be suitable for carrying dozens of people together in same vehicle. After the war trolleybus can do the sane thing now. Later even internal combustion bus can. So they replaced each other in succeeding waves of technology innovation
>>
File: torobus1.png (458 KB, 541x391)
458 KB
458 KB PNG
RIP, causality to battery electric bus
>>
>>1254482
no way, sauce???
>>
>>1254515
https://mainichi.jp/articles/20180801/k00/00e/040/234000c
https://www.kurobe-dam.com/event_info/181101_2.html
Look like last day of operation will be November 30
>>
>>1250379
see revoltwellington.co.nz
>>
>>1254620
Wellington government's arguments on trolleybus removing are quite similar to those used by Moscow government





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.