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How do I corner and maintain speed. Should I lean the direction the bike is turning? Keep my body straight? I’m intimidated by sharp turns at high speeds. Any advice or horror stories?
>>
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Emulate this
>>
Slick tires have tons of grip when turning. You just have to pay attention to the road surface. Avoid leaning hard if there is sand / rocks on top of the pavement. Plan your trajectory to avoid manhole covers, especially if they are wet. You can do what the guy in the picture is doing and point your knee on the side you are turning outward to shift your weight more. And keep your inside pedal up or level when cornering really hard to keep it from hitting the ground.

Be careful in the wind. The other day I did a hard left just after a big truck passed and the air disturbance upset my balance.
>>
>>1221666
Sand on pavement is such bullshit to be honest. The municipality is responsible for cleaning that crap once the snow and ice melt away but they leave strategic amounts of sand at every fucking curve and corner.
>>
Turning on (wet) pine needles isn't much fun either. I have a scar from trying that 6 years ago.
>>
>>1221664
Body should lean in as far as you can and the bike should be as vertical as possible to maintain the straightest contact patch with the road. I've heard motor cyclist describe this as steering to the outside of a turn, but what's really happening is that you are counteracting the bikes natural stabilizing force that wants the bike to be at a particular angle given a certain speed based on the bikes wheelbase and head tube angle. The only reason you wouldn't want to lean in as far as possible is that it's easier to recover from a slide if you are leaned to the outside of a turn.

Tldr:
Lean in as far as you can in good conditions leave a little margin in bad conditions.
>>
>>1221679
This is completely wrong if you're talking about bicycles and only applies to motorcycles because the total mass of a motorcycle is so much higher than a bicycle, and the mass of the rider is so much higher than the bicycle he's riding.

The correct way to take corners at high speed is to *lean the bike* and keep your body upright, which, yes, is totally counter-intuitive if you're used to riding a motorcycle. The tires on a road bike have a curved cross-section and are designed to grip even if the bike is leaning over far. When you lean the bike and leave your body upright you're keeping the majority of the force in the downward direction, limiting how much force is being applied in the direction outwards of the turn you're making. Even if there's something on the pavement surface your tires might slip on, the bike/rider combination will tend to slide outwards rather than the bike sliding out from under the rider (assuming you have decent bike-handling skills and balance, and you don't totally freak out if this happens).

How you do this:
>plan on your line through the corner to go "OUT-IN-OUT"
>inside pedal UP, pressing DOWN on the outside pedal, hands on the drops, rise up ever so slightly off the saddle so you can move your body
>press DOWN with the inside hand and pull UP with the outside hand
>allow the bike to shift under you as you take the corner
>start to recover to your normal riding position and start pedaling again as you pass through the apex of the corner
Some very talented riders can continue to pedal through the corner by rocking the bike back and forth under them, but you've got to be very coordinated to make this work without clipping a pedal on the pavement and crashing, so file that under "Very Advanced Cornering Techniques" and don't plan on ever being able to do it successfully.

All this by the way takes practice to get it to the point where you don't have to think about it when you do it.
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>>1221883
What this guy said. And here's a pic of what he means by "out in out" if you're not familiar.

Also, look where you WANT to go. Don't stare at the things you want to avoid. This really became more apparent to me when I started mountain biking after years of being on the road. Every time I concentrated on avoiding something like a tight gap in trees or a bad line with a huge root or rock, and I stared at it, I'd end up hitting it.
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>>1221883
So you're talking about a dirt bike style cornering technique. I think that's appropriate for low grip surfaces because there is higher chance of the bike sliding out from under you. But on good tarmac, you want to keep the bike as upright as possible (better tire grip and more ground clearance) so you need to compensate by leaning your body into the corner.
>>
The important thing is gaining confidence in the amount of grip your tires give you. Lean into the turn and trust the tires.
Unless it's wet, or there's gravel or sand or some shit.
>>
>>1222162
>you want to keep the bike as upright as possible
not that guy, but no. stop saying this.
>>
JOBST BRANDT
JOBST BRANDT
JOBST BRANDT
JOBST BRANDT
JOBST BRANDT
JOBST BRANDT
>>
>>1222170
>lean bike a lot while staying upright and lose traction
100% chance of chute
>lean yourself a lot while keeping bike more upright and lose traction
High possibility of chute with small possibility of no chute.
>>
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Brake hard before starting the turn
Don't touch your front brake during the turn (unless you fucked up and didn't brake enough before starting the turn)
Lean with the bike
Pick your lines
Keep your tires in good condition
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>>1222190
I wonder if any sikk cunts have just decided fukkit gonna make the jump down from one road to the other
>>1222179
jobst was an absolute fucking unit and could've won the tdf and giro for like 20 years straight if he didn't fucking hate racing
>>
>>1222162
>So you're talking about a dirt bike style cornering technique
No, I'm not. I train for road racing, and I've had some professional coaching, I'm not making this stuff up or borrowing it from somewhere else.
>But on good tarmac, you want to keep the bike as upright as possible
Again, no, that's wrong for a road bicycle on pavement, you're thinking like a motorcycle rider and/or not accepting that this is counter-intuitive. If I had the time I'd draw you a couple pictures illustrating how this works and it would make more sense.

>>1222190
Here's the thing: If you keep your ass firmly planted on the saddle throughout the entire curve/corner, then you HAVE to slow down more to make it without losing traction.
If speed through the curve/corner is your goal, then you HAVE to trust the bike and trust your tires, but you also have to surrender to the physics of the thing and lean the bike under you into the curve/corner and keep your body as upright as possible, moving your center of gravity. Honestly, after spending so many years riding motorcycles it took me a while to get used to doing this thing that is completely backwards from what I was used to but it's how it's done on a road bicycle.
>>
>>1222191
>I wonder if any sikk cunts have just decided fukkit gonna make the jump down from one road to the other
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ofGEYvEJ0
>>
If someone is trying to tell you something about going faster around corners that the pros aren't doing already, they're full of shit. Copy the pro's positioning when they corner. They optimise everything, so if you're doing something other than they are for speed you're doing it wrong.
Exception being UCI rule related things.
>>
>>1222190
>Pick your lines
What the fuck does this even mean?
>>
>>1222191
>>1222276
https://youtu.be/haEbtHiUcBc

>>1222282
Most pros are absolute shitters when it comes to descending.
>>
>>1222294
It's almost as if safe descending is better than fast descending
>>
>>1222296
If only they descended safely. Most of them pick absolutely horrible lines and are clearly uncomfortable on descents.
>>
>>1222282
You don't believe me, go ask any number of cycling coaches, I dare you to.
>>
>>1222296
>>1222298
Fast technical descending is a skill in and of itself, and it's hard to practice because there's no simulation for it. It's like sprinting; the only way to become a better sprinter is to sprint more. There's no way to realistically simulate descending a twisting mountain road at 40+ miles per hour, taking the curves as fast as you can, you have to get up a mountain and *do it*. You can get some practice on smaller descents that have decent curves in them, but they have to be accessible to you, and you still have to get *up* them in the first place. If you're out doing hill repeats and it's got some curves (and it's safe to descend at speed) then you can combine your training, getting both in at once, but again you still have to get *up* the climb in order to *descend* it. How many times in a day can you do that? That's what limits how much high-speed technical descent training you can get in one session.
>>
>>1222458
Or you could just get your motopacing scooter to drag you up the hill and then descent.
>>
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>>1222276
>using DD music for the N64 version
what did he mean by this
>>
>>1222283
It means looking ahead and planning what's the most efficient and safe path to take around the corner (which is never just going along the lane line)
>>
>>1222527
That doesn't sound real safe.

I have wondered if any pro teams just pile the team into vans and drive up and down a mountain all day long on a Recovery Ride day so they can practice descending. If I was running a pro team I'd consider it.
>>
Sheldon Brown says lean both body and bike
>>
>>1222562
So basically "pick your lines" is an entirely vacous answer to ops question. Got it.
>>
>>1221664

Choose the optimum speed for the corner. Feather the brake.
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>>1221666
>Slick tires have tons of grip when turning

You don't fool me, Satan!
>>
>>1222668
Sheldon Brown was a recreational/commute rider and should not be relied on to give advice about performance riding.
>>
>>1222818
>Choose the optimum speed for the corner. Feather the brake.
This works and is safe but it's not the technique for the *fastest* way to take a corner, it's the recreational/casual/commute rider way of taking a corner. Not what the OP was asking.
>>
>>1222692
Apparently you just don't grok what 'picking your line' means if that's what you think about it.

https://lifeatlean.com/what-is-the-racing-line/

That's about racing motorcycles but it's still applicable.
>>
>>1222943
fuck off jelly boomer, you'll never be as cool as papa Sheldon
>>
>>1222245
different anon but..

Motorcycle racing technique is to countersteer into the corner and it definitely also works on high speed road bikes.

ex. you're turning right: push with your right palm on the bar while extending and placing all weight on your left foot. use the front brake to deweight the rear tire if you need to rotate more. As the rear tire slides you're front tire will keep rolling since it is slightly turned outward.
>>
>>1221664
practice countersteering
it is so fucking fun once you feel it out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
>>
Lean both bike and body
If you feel like you've turned too hard and need to go back a bit or simply have leaned too far, move the body up to the point where you aren't 100% on the saddle
>>
>>1222998
>use the front brake to deweight the rear tire if you need to rotate more
NO. This is NOT a motorcycle. That's a great way to end up crashing. You do NOT asymmetrically brake going fast into a corner!

>>1223080
No. Doing what you suggest is asking to crash in a corner.
>>
always apply the rear wheel brake at full pull to straighten up your line. the momentum loss brings you back up to vertical
>>
>>1222998
>braking in corners
No
>>
>>1221664
Use your butt-sense. There is no guide how to drive faster.
>>
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>>1222179
>Virgin randonneur vs chad DHer
Lean the bike more than your body and pay no mind to any road rider's advice. As a rule, they are shit at descending.
>>
>>1223876
That's retarded. One technique is for when you can reasonably expect the wheel to slide or need the tires to move a lot more than you need your center of mass to in order to pick lines, and the other technique is for when you want to avoid it and reasonably can do so and sweepers.
>>
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>>1223884
>That's retarded.
Puts it at least one step ahead of roadie descending '''''technique''''' then, because they all suck retard dick at it.

http://theteamrobot.blogspot.com/2015/08/skillz.html
>>
>>1223464
>trollololol
>>
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>>1223876

>fucking this

Pic related
>>
>>1223876
how much of the sidewall should be used ?
>>
>>1223923
Most people's perception of lean angle is exaggerated. On the drops with the saddle at optimum pedalling height, it's pretty much impossible to lean the bike too far.
>>
>>1223876
>Lean the bike more than your body
But why? You don't have any more grip on the sides of your tyres then in the middle, do you?
>>
>>1224092
See: >>1224085
>>
>>1224092
Because berms
>>
>>1224105
And yet somehow you think the same cornering technique applies to roadies?
>>
>>1224100
That really doesn't answer my question.
>>
>>1224092
Why? Because PHYSICS, that's why.
It's not about the grip of your tires. It's about centrifugal force and center of gravity. If you keep your body upright and lean the bike under you then your center of gravity is shifted to the outside of the turn and more force due to your body mass is in the *downward* direction instead of the *outward* direction. Road bike tires are designed with this in mind, have a rounded cross-section, less sidewall height, and more usable tread, to *facilitate* this.

If on the other hand you leave your ass firmly planted on the saddle, like it's glued there, you have to *slow down* more in a curve or corner than using the above technique, because your center of gravity is more towards the *inside* of the turn, and more of the force is pushing you and the bike to the *outside* of the turn, which in turn puts more stress on the ability of the tires to hold the road -- therefore you can't take the turn as *fast*.

Note that these are racing techniques. If all you're doing is riding for fun or commuting then don't even bother, just brake before the turn, go slow through it, and speed back up afterwards.

However: The OP wanted to know how to *maintain speed* through a turn, therefore we're talking about *racing* techniques for high-speed cornering on a road bicycle.
>>
>>1224150
It's funny, you thinking you understand physics.
>>
>>1224109
I don't know much about the finer points, but I think it's about getting onto the side of your tread. With motorbikes, they are so heavy that you need to lean over the side to get the bike to lean and onto the side of the tread. Bicycles are lighter, so you can simply tilt them over directly.

I don't know how true that is, but the experimental results speak for them selves.
>>
>>1224174
> I think it's about getting onto the side of your tread.
I can't see a reason why you'd want that. With motorcycles it's not about getting onto the side of the tread. It's about leaning your bike to shift the center of gravity. Getting on the side of the tread is just a consequence of that. Also, motorcylists try to keep their bikes uppright enough to avoid having their pegs scraping the road.

Same principle applies to bicycles, but since ,as you say, a bicycle is lighter and easier to shift around under you you have more flexibility in achieving the desired center-of-gravity appropriate for your turn. You can lean your body more and your bike less, or your bike more and your body less, or you can lean with your bike, and achieve the same center of gravity. Given the same center of gravity and the same grip level regardless of lean, it doesn't matter which leaning technique you use.
>>
>>1221665
Weeb
>>
This might be related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9gLDjKA_zg

I also think that with bicycle you corner differently because there's no much grip and because road bike handles really dramatically when maximum grip is exceeded. With motorbile you can drift a little
>>
MONSTER LEAN
MONSTER LEAN
MONSTER LEAN
MONSTER LEAN
MONSTER LEAN
>>
>>1224159
shut up faggot he knows wtf hes talking about if you knew anything at all youd see that
>>
>>1223455
No? Its a cycle. You are the motor. The wheel alignment during cornering is the same, the back wheel is on the inside of the corner, the front requires steering traction to turn hard. You brake the front to give the wheel extra traction while taking weight off the rear. If the rear wheel slides its nbd because it was tracking on the inside anyway. When you sense a slide you release the front brake and regain traction easily.
>>
>>1223872
How else would you carry max velocity into the corner? You brake @ min distance before apex to get to cornering speed then pedal out
>>
>>1224383
he's ignoring gyroscopic effects of the wheels my /n/egro
>>
>>1224642
He's ignoring a lot of things.
>>
>>1224642
Gyroscopic effects of wheels are insignificant in overall dynamics of bicycles.
>>
>>1224642
>>1224645
>>1224646
Tired of arguing about this. Go watch this, it confirms everything I've been talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_4008659323&feature=iv&index=211&list=PLUdAMlZtaV11U9AtszkMh0bpRqM4dtlDC&src_vid=OXkxhpq3LBQ&v=aPsVl42tqYo
</thread>




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