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File: Erdogan.jpg (74 KB, 1000x541)
74 KB
74 KB JPG
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/erdogan-calls-turkish-families-have-five-children-bulwark-against/

>Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has called on Turkey’s citizens in Europe to step up their rates of procreation and have five children each, saying a booming Turkish population would be the best answer to the EU’s “vulgarism, antagonism, and injustice”.

>peaking in the central city of Eskişehir, Turkey’s president urged “his brothers and sisters in Europe” to begin a baby boom in their new countries. “Have not just three but five children,” he told his flag-waving audience.

>“The place in which you are living and working is now your homeland and new motherland. Stake a claim to it. Open more businesses, enroll your children in better schools, make your family live in better neighborhoods, drive the best cars, live in the most beautiful houses.”

So they're not even hiding it anymore. When are leftists going to admit we have a problem with Muslims and changing demographics in Europe? What benefits does Islam bring to the West?
>>
>>123069

Erdoğan's a smart enough guy and has not gone full-blown crazy dictator (yet) -- what the fuck was he thinking? The rest of his speech was great except for that one line; surely he knew that it would inflame up anti-immigration sentiment in Europe. And for what, a single round of applause in the speech from his hard right supporters?

Turkey has a migration crisis as much as the rest of Europe, so if the other countries close off immigration or start deporting, Turkey is stuck with the bill, and Erdoğan gets nothing out of it. Perhaps Erdoğan wants hard-right candidates to win European elections this year on the philosophy that authoritarians tend to stick up for each other, even if they have opposite politics?
>>
>>123078
maybe we should actually listen to what he's saying and try to do something to prevent the demographic changes in Europe he is suggesting? Like, gee, I don't know...not resettle millions of muslims who could have stayed in muslim countries and have nothing in common with the Europeans whose countries they want to inhabit?

Honestly, what would be bad about a one child policy for all non-natives?
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>>123069
i like this turk. he is choosing the best tactics and wins. jews breed themselves a new country. so turks will do the same.
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>>123092
A global one child policy would be better. Possibly with an exemption for people without health issues and an IQ over 120.
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>>123137
Roachposter get out REEEEE
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>>123139
>A global one child policy would be better.

dont think so moshe. if you want global one child policy you should start at your chosen one tribe first.
>>
They've been purposefully makking extra babies the whole time

It is another form of Jihad

We just arent fighting back yet
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>>123160
As soon as Europe tries to fight back, Erdogen will go full Sultan.
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>>123161
as if anyone in the Arab world could ever resist the West if the West actually gave a shit. They could all go full-Sultan for all the good it would do them.
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>>123078
>Surely he would know
He does. He's doing the same thing every wannabe dictator does: identifying an eternal foe. He wants to provoke the anti-immigration crowd into doing unspeakable acts, which martyrs his voterbase and emboldens his stance.
>>
>>123078
>surely he knew that it would inflame up anti-immigration sentiment in Europe.

And that matters why?

Europe is never going to deviate from its course of altruistic suicide. It's not going to stop Muslims from having more kids, it's not going to kick them out. It's going to keep trying to cover up mass rapes like they did with Cologne, and when they're uncovered they're just going to blame all men rather than the Muslim men, just like they did with Cologne. Anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe is as threatening to a Muslim as a retarded man with a whiffle bat.

I mean, wow, it must be so threatening to know that you can say whatever the fuck you want and a million progressives will congratulate you for being Muslim. Boy that Europe, such a dignified threat.

Face it faggots, you're on the out. You did it to yourselves. You better hope that Eastern Europe decides to be the one to take you over just so you can avoid Shariah Law, but you idiots spend so much time demonizing Russia that you're too pre-occupied to deal with an actual threat who is quite openly invading you.

And I couldn't care less. Why should I feel bad for you when you won't feel bad for you?
>>
>>123192
This, any repercussions will strengthen his position.

>>123202
Who are you?
>>
Neo crusades when?
>>
I'm a leftist and because of this newly emerging toxic global environment I'm starting to change my tune a little bit. I don't know about other leftists. It might take them a bit more time, and the situation may have to get a bit more extreme. But they likely will come along too at some point in the not too distant future. This is arguably what has been happening already, in Britain at least, because many of the Brexit voters were disillusioned former Labour voters. In the American Midwest, it was disillusioned former blue dog Democrats. The story is probably similar in most parts of Europe as well.

This is a bit dramatic, but I gather what is happening right now is basically this: no more mister nice white guy. When white guys get mad they can really fuck you up. You don't want to make them mad. Trust me on this one, world. We've all seen it before.
>>
>>123220
>no more mister nice white guy. When white guys get mad they can really fuck you up. You don't want to make them mad. Trust me on this one, world. We've all seen it before.

This is such a crappy opinion. There is no history to support this notion.

That's not what happened in WW2, which is usually the historical event referenced. unless you are thinking (((the holocaust)))?

Even during The Crusades, the whites were kind to the Islamist infiltrators. They built churches and shit.

This is just white nationalist propaganda, you tool. I've never even had one of those lot
>>
>>123225
There's a reason why white nationalist propaganda is literally everywhere right now. It wasn't on anyone's radar as any kind of serious problem to worry about a few years ago. Yeah liberals would screech about it anyway, because that's just what liberals do. But it wasn't a SERIOUS threat to the established order. That's not so certain anymore. The media are in panic mode over it with good reason.
>>
>>123220
Letting in hundreds of thousands of conservative Islamists always seemed like a terrible idea to me, as a liberal. No matter who wins in the ensuing culture war between islamists, and white nationalists, the left will be diminished.
>>
>>123331
Being left-wing is really a luxury that can only be afforded in a world that is mostly safe. That world is disappearing.
>>
>>123220
>When white guys get mad they can really fuck you up.
Also sometimes when they're not mad. Because, we all know, all the Jews that died had it coming during WW2, right?

I am of the opinion that the freedom to move is a human right. If you're living in a shitty situation, you should be able to move to a different place where you aren't threatened. Keep in mind, I draw a distinction between movement and immigration. Maybe you don't get access to all social services, and people don't sell you property. But humans at least deserve the freedom to move around their planet. I certainly make exceptions. Like when the "movement" is organized and with malicious intent. Or when some folks are really too dangerous to be allowed near one's family. But the default has to be that the advent of modern nations can't serve as an excuse to imprison us where we are born.

That being said, if white people are going to be cranky and take it out on liberals and minorities in white countries, I'm not sure it makes much of a difference whether those folks "had it coming". So I'm not going to live my life in fear of that.

Angry mobs aren't known for being particularly intellectual or even rational about identifying the source of their problems. They just want to take their anger out on whatever looks at them the wrong way. If you're deciding how to live your life in fear of the people around you, you're wasting it, even if you survive.
>>
>>123078
>>123092
There is nothing really wrong with what he is suggesting. If you disagree, you're a racist.
>>
>>123335
i guess that's racist, but i really don't think the world will be a better place when everyone is black

i have no evidence that that's true. call it a hunch. i'll even admit that if everyone were A JEW the world would actually be much much better
>>
>>123337
or if everyone was (east)asian
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>>123333
Well, sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You're right about the wrong type of liberals. SJW that are willing to tolerate islamism because they're tolerant to a fault.

But true liberalism has always been defined by humanism and science. These are the most robust ideologies known to humans. There isn't a time I can think of in human history when society doesn't benefit from values defined by science and humanism.

If liberalism fails, it's because humanity preferenced immediate comfort from appeal to instinct.
>>
>>123337

Well I understand the point you're making and I think it's a valid one.

If we have open borders, then rather than the developed world serving to potentiate development elsewhere, we have a situation where infinite migration just sort of brings all countries to an equilibrium of development. And we don't have reason to believe that will be better for humanity.

That's a far cry from arguing for no immigration however. I think given that Europeans are native to Europe, they have a stronger grievance against immigration and should generally preference more restrictive immigration policies.

But the US was always multiethnic. Granted, due to immigration and population growth dynamics, it's mostly white now, and the US is the only home known to most of those whites. But other than controlling illegal migration, I don't think the US's immigration policies are inherently broken. We do a pretty good job of vetting migrants across a number of dimensions, like criminality and employability and economic solvency. And we're not the homeland of europeans. So why is it bad if the status quo, maybe sans illegal migration, continues in the US?
>>
>>123069
>So they're not even hiding it anymore. When are leftists going to admit we have a problem with Muslims and changing demographics in Europe? What benefits does Islam bring to the West?

Erdogen is playing to right wing fears in the west.

He benefits from backlash against muslims from the West.

He wants to galvanize the nationalists and Islamists in Turkey and elsewhere in the Islamic World, and he wants to be their leader.
>>
>>123220
Bannon summed it up well I thought.

"We have wide and sometimes diverging opinions and I think the center core of what we believe is that we’re a nation with an economy, not an economy just in some global market-place with open borders, but we are a nation with a culture and a reason for being. I think that’s what unites us and I think that’s what’s going to unite this movement going forward."

For the last 20 years since NAFTA came forward, we focused so much on economic gains, we forgot what it was like to be American. Trump basically promised to restore the meaning of being American and won.
>>
what kills roaches fastest?
>>
>>123069
NB4 Goobacks.
>>
Those children would be pointless if they lost the culture war.
>>
>>123092
>Honestly, what would be bad about a one child policy for all non-natives?

But according to my anti abortion pamphlet, all life is precious.

Really, how the fuck would you even punish that? Abort the kid? Violate human rights with forced sterilization? Death panels?

As for why they don't stay in their countries/Turkey. That isn't surprising. We bombed the shit out of them or let their countries go to hell. Then did the bare minimum for the refuge camps. Countries like Turkey got sick of their shit real quick and bitched to the UN/EU about it only to be ignored. This lead to conditions becoming so shit at the camps that it made more sense to risk your life and limb going to another country than the bleek no hope camps.

There really is no humane way to go about slowing the flow down.
>>
>>123337
>if everyone were A JEW the world would actually be much much bette

nah, jews rely too much on a us vs them mindset,
never harm a fellow jew, but if you must harm someone make sure to harm a non-jew

without non-jews they would have problems within their group just like everyone else.
thats the reason why youre only considered a real jew if your mother is a jew, cant let it grow too much.

>>123437
>Violate human rights with forced sterilization?
sterilization is a pretty good solution really.
much better then handing out abortions like candy to every irresponsible idiot.
forcing them might be a bit much, but its also unnecessary. if you pay them to do it im sure they would love to.
>>
Dying mans last wish
>>
>>123069
>When are leftists going to admit we have a problem with Muslims and changing demographics in Europe?
The PBS program "Nova" predicted this problem in the 1970's, citing the fact that people near the equator on all continents make more babies than (white) people in temperate zones.
It's not a question of when "muh liberals" admit there's an issue, it's just that they don't offer the same "solutions" as the conservatives.
For instance, does ANYBODY really think a ban on burkas or the Koran will actually help Europe?
Or that Trump's immigration ban is helping anything beyond soothing rednecks' xenophobia?
Like it or not, confining Muslims to the middle-east (where they breed like rabbits) isn't going to reduce their numbers, or change their population trends.
Our best hope for future that doesn't leave Christians in the minority is western hegemony.
>>
Like there aren't enough people in the world let's make more. And fucking Muslims at that! Holy shit.
>>
>>123216
They were called the Iraq wars.
>>
Theres alot of defeatism in this thread which saddens me deeply.

This one >>123437 deserves an answer from me though because its so insulting to everyones intelligence.

Why in the blue blazes do you think we cant take those mesures at some point? Its within our best intrests to do so. Modern 'law' and morality be damned.

Its not like laws cannot be unwritten, given enough pressure by a populace. They like to make you think law and order is an immovable force, but its actually very delicate if you apply enough force in the right spots.

Ironically, it will not be fear that people will have to appeal to in the near future to make people sign papers saying to chemiclly castrate middle-eastern settlers, but love. love of your country, town, home, family.

THAT is truth. I'll be damn anyone who tells me otherwise.
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>>123078
Erdogan knows damn well that Europe is cucked and won't take any actual measures against mass immigration.
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>>123139
back to >>>/pol/ with you
>>
>>123846
no
>>
>>123691
>it's just that they don't offer the same "solutions" as the conservatives.
They don't offer solutions at all

>For instance, does ANYBODY really think a ban on burkas or the Koran will actually help Europe?
Yeah but try to build a church or wear a bikini in the middle East, Islam means submission.

>Or that Trump's immigration ban is helping anything beyond soothing rednecks' xenophobia?
Yeah but explain how importing millions helps anyone

>Like it or not, confining Muslims to the middle-east (where they breed like rabbits) isn't going to reduce their numbers, or change their population trends.
At least then they're not our problem, yeah we need their oil and we keep fighting retarded wars but it's still not a reason to import them.
>>
>>123331
And to think, the left could have maintained its monopoly on Western civilization's cultural outlook if it hadn't fallen in love with its own bullshit. As it is, this emerging clash of civilizations is largely their fault (along with corporatists). I realized this a few years ago and abandoned many of my leftwing dogmas because it becomes increasingly clear there's only going to be two sides here: European nationalism or Islamic apologism. No ifs. No ands. No buts. No middle grounds. The time for middle ground solutions that could have preserved leftwing enlightenment has long passed.
>>
>>123347
Let him. Some kind of violent catharsis or political stand is preferable to the anemic dissolution doing nothing will entail, especially when the latter will end with the former at this rate regardless.
>>
Well, this is the end of hope.

I have viewed liberalism as the hope that things can and will get better and that conservatism the view that things were better. Casual racism was becoming a thing. Then this shit doubles down. At least there was a breather to get some fences up and maybe Interpol will get serious with human trafficking in the Mediterranean. Greece should review plans for a government in exile while they host WWIII - The Final Crusade. Italy, Bulgaria and Romania need to be threatened with curb stomping if they don't get with the program and Ukraine will be forced to pick whichever side can keep them alive. Sweden will decide not to become a fifth column after positive response to the purging of Molenbeek (no problems here boss).
>>
If I were a muslim community leader in Europe, I would consider organizing protest to affirm that my community does not accept this sort of animosity and that these folks don't represent the interests of the community.
Many muslims think it is not their duty to protest where their personal interests aren't relevant but if non-muslim, European liberals will protest for my sake, I might at least consider returning the favor in a gesture of good will, since that is something I have the power to do and it will curb the fear of many of my fellow citizens.
>>
Would be smart to take him out now, End travel from Turkey, US should take zero turks
>>
>>124331

You'd be giving him everything he hoped for in the process. He's obviously trying to provoke Western reaction by the right wing, just like ISIS, but by different means.

This consequently alienates moderate muslims and so empowers fundamentalists. that we need to support in pushing for the gradual liberalization of the Islamic World.

This alliance of convenience between a portion of the western far right and all the most violent and despotic governments and cultures of the east is a worrying trend for our civilization.
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>>124335
>moderate muslims meme
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>>124310
It doesn't matter if they are against erdogans message, Muslims don't belong in Europe.
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>>123069
>they're
If the president of the country you're from says A, this doesn't mean everyone agrees with A.
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>>123092
>maybe we should actually listen to what he's saying and try to do something to prevent the demographic changes in Europe he is suggesting?
He's literally losing all the best of his youth.
That was a desperate call, mind me.
Everyone who can leaves Turkey.

Now, Mr. erdi is angry at people who emigrated. Much like one can be angry at the girl who left him for another man
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>>123339
>But true liberalism has always been defined by humanism and science
In fact I don't get why the hell would Americans call the SJW "liberals" while the rest of the world uses the word "liberal" to merely flag decent libertarians who also allow for social diversity.


>tfw a centre-right voter is called a liberal in Europe
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>>124372
islam is a belief not a specie you poor excuse of a pleb
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>>123069
he urges TURKISH people
fucking twat
>>
>>123437
>Really, how the fuck would you even punish that? Abort the kid? Violate human rights with forced sterilization? Death panels?
Seconded.

I am in favour of pregnancy interruption rights, but Here I see a Dangerous slippery slope.

If you want to enhance population control, you have to provide immediate, safe, and free access to abortion.

This said, I think we have better ways to spend our moneys.

Moreover, the sheer idea of penalizing families with a lot of kids (e.g. By imposing taxes on them) is severely damaging. Could you imagine what the culture would be in 20 years time?
>I don't want to have kids because it is socially wrong
The fuck with humanity.
China gave us a stark example of how this can go wrong: they had to curb the pop growth, yet now they expect not to have enough kids who will work to support the welfare system.

Also, could you imagine the educational pitfalls?
>the State penalized my family because we had too many kids, so only one of them managed to study
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>>123573
>without non-jews they would have problems within their group just like everyone else
As they did in Christ's era
>>
>>124406
It's a religion that still holds power over the political world. It hasn't been neutered and relegated to an affair of faith only like Christianity has for the vast majority of Europe. Stop thinking of it in terms of just a religion. It's a political ideology with a religion fused to it.

>>124310
If I were a Muslim community leader in Europe I'd be calling for a stop to Islamic immigration and a wholesale reform to push Islam back into the realm of private affairs. No more diversity field trips, no more grand mosques, no more halal shops, etc. Complete assimilation is the only hope Muslims have in Europe at this point.

>>124335
Good. Maybe it'll make weak Westerners grow backbones for a change now that a popular Islamic head of state is calling for his diaspora to act as a legitimate fifth column. Your intellectual pussyfooting just delays what is at this point inevitable and makes the future prospects for every party worse the longer you drag this out.
>>
>>124464
>Your intellectual pussyfooting just delays what is at this point inevitable

And what is that inevitable scenario?
>>
>>123139
I like this actually. No way it would ever fly in so many countries but less procreation for all would be nice. Got enough people on this planet already, last thing we need is the poorest/dumbest people breeding.
>>
>>124407
SAME DIFF
>>
>>124726
>And what is that inevitable scenario?

Europe becoming the same as the Middle East, complete with terrorism that would make France's current two hundred and something death toll of the last three years alone look like children playing pretend.
>>
>>124726
A clash between Europe and its immigrant populations. It's going to happen. The nature of Islamic immigration guarantees it and whether it starts happening now with the resurgence of European Nationalism or later when those immigrant populations are in more advantageous positions doesn't matter. It's going to happen. I mean, you could argue it's already happening.

You have men in Denmark being tried for blasphemy against Islam. You have German mayors telling women to stay arms length away from migrants. You have antifa riots all over Paris. You have German women chanting "Allah Ackbar," into loudspeakers. You have a head of state to a large, powerful, and increasingly fundamentalist country calling on his people to wage demographic warfare and said diaspora is now starting to majorly influence European elections (See DENK). It's already happening and people like you burying your head in the sand will only drag it out and make it more painful for everyone. You didn't listen to any of the skeptics when peaceful solutions were still possible because you carried such disgusting arrogant belief in your political dogmas and now that they're falling apart all that's left are much uglier solutions that will entail deportations, forced assimilation, closed borders, crowded prisons, and curtailing of civil liberties. Keep delaying and it will look even worse.
>>
>>124736
No not really
>>
>>124820
Do you honestly think other Muslims groups friendly with the Turks due to sharing status as Muslim minorities in the West are going to behave any differently? Yes, he meant Turks, but the anon you quoted isn't that wrong either. More Turks is going to mean more Muslims from many Islamic states.
>>
>>124822
Turks aren't fleeing their country as refugees like the Syrians and Iraqis and Iranians and Libyans, etc. are. Turks don't like refugees. I don't think you understand how Turks are reviled in the Arab world for centuries of Ottoman domination. Furthermore, I think you might be trying to turn this into a standard DailyMail-tier anti-immigrant argument when it's real more about Erdogen being a dickhead and making troll comments because he can.
>>
>>124825
Don't frankly care why he's doing it. Gambling with his motivations and 'maybes' is a losing prospect if you are at all wrong about him. Given people like you have been quite wrong a lot lately on this topic I'm not inspired with a whole lot of confidence as to your words representing reality rather than lingering apologism and attempts to save a middle-ground that doesn't really exist anymore.

Turk antipathy for other Muslim groups is irrelevant when they're both minority groups in a Western European nation. There's absolutely no reason to suspect other groups won't do the same thing Erdogan has urged the Turks to do. In fact, you pointing out their mutual distrust is only a reinforcement of that point given other groups won't want to be left behind demographically by the Turks.
>>
>>124830
You do understand that eventually refugees mostly return to their countries of origin, right? You do understand the differences between a refugee and an immigrant, right? It doesn't seem like you do.
>>
>>124842
You're hopelessly naive if you think any considerable portion of the refugees are voluntarily going to go back after tasting the welfare states of Europe, especially when so many of them aren't refugees but economic migrants in the first place. Perhaps you should be lecturing European politicians on the differences between refugees and immigrants instead, they seem to be the ones in need of the lesson given frequent excuses for the bungling of the refugee crisis hinged on Europe's low birth rates and aging population.
>>
>>124843
He can't really beliebe that bullshit
>>
>>124846
Unfortunately he probably does. The ruling class in Europe has sold this self-immolating policy to a bunch of people desperate for any out to keep their society stable but who also refuse to do anything that would earn them a mean moniker from a political ideologue. So a bunch of politicians lying through their teeth and telling them these hundreds of thousands of poor desperate people will somehow go back to a country with dismal prospects even in the case of peace when most didn't even come from said country to begin with is just enough of a hope grab for insulated Europeans to believe.

They don't want to be mean and deport people, but they know these refugees and migrants are going to cause massive problems so they desperately believe the feel good lies designed to pacify and sedate them from doing anything until the only solutions to these problems are too ugly and too dark for the weak European public to even contemplate them.
>>
fake news
>>
>>125929
Feel free to shop around for different sources, you'll find it isn't fake at all. Sorry if it offends you to see the rightwing position on Islam becoming more and more justified in reality. At this point leftists still clinging to the idea that Islam's leaders aren't waging an existential war on the western world is total and objective delusion.
>>
>>125931
#triggered
>>
>>125931
Serious question though, do you really believe shit like 'existential war'?

All sounds like melodramatic propaganda.
Only the extremists on both sides actually buy into it.
>>
>>125934
Doesn't mean its wrong, it just means you have no counterpoint.

>>125935
Under normal circumstances no, I don't. When it comes to Islam though I certainly do. Crack a history book and take a long hard look at every society that has allowed Islamic entryism. It's the same story played over and over and over and over again.

You have a man in Denmark being prosecuted for blasphemy against Islam, the first such case of that charge being applied to someone in decades. You have a woman affiliated with the Muslim brotherhood proposing anti-Islamophobia bills in the Canadian parliament. You have the head of state to a large Islamic country openly declaring demographic war on Europe. We've seen increasing amounts of radicalization among the children of immigrants where the second and third generations refuse to assimilate or integrate.

Stop buying into this false idea of there being a middle ground for every issue. The rightwingers are wrong on many things, but unfortunately they are very right when it comes to Islam. It does no one any good to continue to pretend they aren't, especially since burying your head in the sand is surrendering the initiative and platform to those rightwingers who bring a lot of other nasty things along for the ride. Nobody would be listening to Trump, Wilders, or Le Pen otherwise.
>>
Thank you
>>
>>125941
It's disingenuous how you elevate Erdogen speaking to Turks as somehow representing all of Islam, and then go on to claim that justifies islamophobia. If Trump urged all Christians to have 5 babies it wouldn't be all that controversial.
>>
>>126050
And there it is, every single time someone criticizes Islam there's someone waiting in the wings to throw some Christian whataboutism into the equation. This is how we can tell you have no way of defending Islam, because every time someone criticizes it you default to deflection.

Stop equating the two religions. Just stop. It's fucking transparent in the desperation is represents. Christianity is neutered in Europe and is largely irrelevant in the US/Canada outside much older populations. Aside from the debate on abortion it makes almost no impact on people outside its own spheres.

Erdogan is very popular in Turkey and the Turkish diaspora in Europe that refuses to assimilate doesn't have to live with any of his terrible policies back home so there's absolutely no reason to assume they won't side with him through tribalism just to spite the majorities they refuse to integrate with. Especially since that refusal is in part due to Erdogan's calls as well.

Good job ignoring everything else as well. The Muslim brotherhood-affiliated woman trying subtly make criticizing Islam synonymous with "islamophobia," and beyond reproach. The German leftwingers shouting Allahu Ackbar into loudspeakers, the Danish man being tried for blasphemy, the frightening transformation of places like Dearborn, the foreign calls for demographic warfare, the rise of Islamist Turk seats in the last Dutch election, etc. You keep ignoring it all and then have the gall to wonder why people side with fascists. It's because they're the only ones who recognize this threat. Every time you or someone like you plugs your ears and denies reality before you to inflate your own self-aggrandizing ego and make yourself feel like a good person you push more and more people to the hard right. What choice do people have in this matter anymore when those like you refuse to even recognize the problem?
>>
>>126050
And another thing. You know what justifies Islamophobia? Islam itself. The very history of the ideology is enough to make any honest person wary of it. You know what else justifies it? The fact people like you default with deflection and demoralizing whataboutism any time it's brought up. You can't have any kind of discussion on something if all the negative views are immediately dismissed as petty unfounded bigotry.

You're used to a powerless and defanged Christianity. That's why you assume Islam will act the same when history has shown time and again that will not happen. It is as much a political ideology as it is a religion. The fact people like you are so blind to that is enough to justify Islamophobia.




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