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File: static.politico.com.jpg (359 KB, 1160x967)
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-acknowledges-defends-2016-meeting-between-son-kremlin-aligned-lawyer/2018/08/05/cc37ea5e-98c1-11e8-843b-36e177f3081c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9fbb6ecd04e8

BRIDGEWATER, N.J. — President Trump on Sunday offered his most definitive and clear public acknowledgment that his oldest son met with a Kremlin-aligned lawyer at Trump Tower during the 2016 campaign to “get information on an opponent,” defending the meeting as “totally legal and done all the time in politics.”

It is, however, against the law for U.S. campaigns to receive donations or items of value from foreigners, and that June 2016 meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and Natalia Veselnitskaya is now a subject of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation.

While “collusion” is not mentioned in U.S. criminal statutes, Mueller is investigating whether anyone associated with Trump coordinated with the Russians, which could result in criminal charges if they entered into a conspiracy to break the law, including through cyberhacking or interfering with the election.

“Fake News reporting, a complete fabrication, that I am concerned about the meeting my wonderful son, Donald, had in Trump Tower,” the president wrote in one of several early-morning tweets Sunday, many of which took aim at the news media. “This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics — and it went nowhere.”

He concluded by further distancing himself from the meeting his son arranged, writing, “I did not know about it!”

Trump was responding to a Washington Post report this weekend that although he does not think his eldest son intentionally broke the law, he is worried that Trump Jr. may have unintentionally stumbled into legal jeopardy and is embroiled in Mueller’s investigation largely because of his connection to the president.
>>
On Sunday, one of the president’s attorneys defended the 2016 meeting as something that would not have been illegal under any federal statute.

“The question is: How would it be illegal?” Jay Sekulow asked on ABC News’s “This Week,” suggesting that there are no laws prohibiting campaign operatives from meeting and working with foreign agents. “Nobody’s pointed to one.”

The Trump Tower meeting also included Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and his campaign chairman at the time, Paul Manafort, who is on trial over tax and bank fraud charges after being indicted by Mueller.

Trump’s tweet, however, conflicts with a statement that Trump Jr. released to the New York Times in July 2017, as the newspaper prepared to report about the meeting. In that statement, Trump Jr. indicated that the meeting had been “primarily” about the issue of the adoption of Russian children by Americans.

Amid public uproar over the meeting, the president’s son was forced to release follow-up statements, ultimately acknowledging that the meeting’s true purpose had been to get dirt about Hillary Clinton from a lawyer he had been told was working for the Russian government.

At the time, in July 2017, Trump offered a similar comment to the one he made on Sunday, dismissing the meeting with a Russian lawyer promising dirt on his political opponent as no big deal.

“Most politicians would have gone to a meeting like the one Don jr attended in order to get info on an opponent,” Trump wrote on Twitter. “That’s politics!”

The Post reported a few weeks later that Trump Jr.’s initial misleading statement had been “dictated” by Trump.
>>
The president’s attorneys at first denied Trump’s involvement in drafting the response to the Times, but months later, in a letter intended to explain why Mueller should not interview Trump, they agreed that the president had, in fact, been the author of the statement. They described the statement, which had not mentioned that the Russian lawyer was expected to bring damaging information about Clinton, as “short but accurate.”

And they said Trump Jr., Kushner and White House staffers had made a “full disclosure” about that session to Mueller and Congress.

Trump Jr.’s testimony to Congress contained a similar defense as his father’s Sunday tweet, indicating that he saw no reason not to accept a meeting that could yield important information about Clinton, even though he was told that it was part of an effort by the government of a hostile power.

Sekulow also noted on Sunday that he himself had given a misleading statement a year ago when, on “This Week” and in other media appearances, he said Trump had nothing to do with the misleading statement given to the New York Times.

“I had bad information at that time,” the lawyer said. Sekulow added that he has “no knowledge” of the president’s son testifying to the special counsel’s grand jury or being told that he is a “target,” which is an official designation the Justice Department would use to tell someone that they are likely to be indicted.

In addition to weighing in publicly on the Trump Tower meeting, the president also unleashed angry tweets directed at the news media Sunday morning from his 11-day working vacation in Bedminster, N.J.

In one tweet, he declared the media the “Enemy of the People” and accused outlets of sowing division and distrust. “They can also cause War!” Trump wrote. “They are very dangerous & sick!”
>>
In another, he expressed frustration with both the media and Mueller’s probe. “Too bad a large portion of the Media refuses to report the lies and corruption having to do with the Rigged Witch Hunt — but that is why we call them FAKE NEWS!”

-----

So he admits his son committed the crime of conspiracy to defraud the United States, and then makes sure to say 'I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT IT!'

Good job Donald!

Can't wait for him to say 'Since when is treason a crime'?
>>
Washingtonpost is not a valid source
>>
>>276018
Cringe
>>
Hasn't this been known for a long time? The meeting between DTJ and Natalia is old news. It also isn't treason despite your insistence OP, the US isn't at war with Russia.
>>
>>276012
>all russians who contacted trump got into the country with an fbi informant visa
i'll wait until they explain that part
>>
>>276018
Have a BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45079377
>>
>“This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics — and it went nowhere.”

>Trump was responding to a Washington Post report this weekend that although he does not think his eldest son intentionally broke the law, he is worried that Trump Jr. may have unintentionally stumbled into legal jeopardy and is embroiled in Mueller’s investigation largely because of his connection to the president.

Why is Trump concerned that Jr may be in legal jeopardy for attending a "totally legal" meeting?
>>
>>276018
poorly executed
try again
>>
>>276028
Because he lied in his testimony before congress.
That's perjury.

He, his father and those in the room on Air force One, crafted a statement that was total lie.
That is obstruction of justice.

Even Hope Hicks did a runner when the truth was finally revealed and she found out that she could charged over her involvement in crafting that statement.
One of Trump's or the White House's lawyers was on the phone as they crafted the lie. He warned them not to do it as it was obstruction.

They did not listen and he wisely resigned.
At least some people in this whole sordid farce were smart. There aren't that many.
>>
I'm confused...wasn't it already established that they had met with the Fusion GPS lawyer for dirt on Hillary like a year ago and that she had only offered stuff regarding the Magnitsky act and possible fraud conducted by Bill Browder and his (new york) billionaire associates? I don't recall there being any dispute of that narrative from either side.
>>
>>276012
That pick is stupid though. The european """armies""" should be children with toy guns while big daddy USA is watching over them.
>>
>>276021
>Since when is treason a crime?
Did you forget Donny boy spamming ' NO COLLUSION!" for almost 2 years now?
>>
If Hillary never got anything for her skulduggery I doubt Trump would either.
>>
>>276021
Wow, that goalpost shift.

>before: no collusion! Show me the collusion!

>after: it's not treason! Show me the treason! We're not at war so it can't be treason!

Protip: it doesn't matter whether or not we're at war. You are NOT allowed to receive aid from a foreigner in an election, that's conspiracy against the United States.

If The Donald himself knew about it, it's treason.
>>
>>276053
That lawyer wasn't actually connected to the Russian government. Formerly was but at that time she was looking for money or help in a personal project.
>>
>>276062
> Thinking politicians get in trouble for lying
Summer, right
>>
>>276078
>Since when is treason a crime?

>>276077
She admitted to being an informant of the Russian Government.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-lawyer-who-met-with-trump-jr-says-she-is-an-informant/
>>
>>276076
I'll be sure to let AIPAC know lmao.
>>
>>276080
>inb4 who says we can trust her

This is almost certainly corroborated information.
>>
If it wasn’t that serious, why did they constantly lie about it?
>>
I wonder how Mueller feels right now. If you listen to the redcaps he's been trying fruitlessly to prove collusion for over a year, and now Trump just...tweets it out.

This is one way to take the Manafort trial off the spotlight. Mostly because it puts the spotlight back on Trump doing illegal shit...which is not the best plan.
>>
Ahh nice I needed my daily fix of at least 10 trump threads
>>
>>276012
>It is, however, against the law for U.S. campaigns to receive donations or items of value from foreigners, and that June 2016 meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and Natalia Veselnitskaya is now a subject of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s Russia investigation.
So what donation or item of value did they recieve during that meeting?
>>
>>276103
News article is paraphrasing. It's illegal to SOLICIT, meaning asking also counts.
>>
We did it guys drumpf is finally finished
He didn't win
>>
>>276114
Oh he won. He just cheated, is all.
>>
I thought we already knew this? What law was broken?
>>
>>276076
>If The Donald himself knew about it, it's treason.
How is it treason to accept opposition research
>>
>>276117
>>276120

I think a good case can be made here for USC 52, SS 30121.

>(a) *Prohibition* It shall be unlawful for—
>(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
>(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
>(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
>(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
>(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The key word being SOLICIT. It's illegal to even ASK foreigners for help with your campaign.
>>
>>276115
>He just cheated,

She cheated you mean, super delegates BS meant Hillary could not lose.
>>
>>276126
Primary elections are not governed by the same rules. Fortunately the dems took the hint and have reformed that particular rule - superdelegates may now only vote in contested primaries, where a normal vote wouldn't decide things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/us/politics/superdelegates-democratic-party.html
>>
>>276126
Fucking dumb whatabout argument.

Yes, your honor, I murdered the victim.
But others have done the same thing and got away with it.
So, I deserve to not be convicted.
I demand that I not be convicted.
This is just a witch hunt.
It's all fake news.
I am the victim here.
It's really the deep state that needs to be in court.
Why are you not investigating Oprah?
That bitch is guilty.
She wasn't even born in America.
>>
>>276127
Also it's not even a proper comparison. Yes, it wasn't fair to Bernie Sanders, but at the same time he agreed to the rules because that was how their election was rule.
Meanwhile for President, Trump to run for President, he would have to agree with federal laws that you are not allowed to solicit or conspire with foreign powers, or worse, hostile foreign powers. Which he did. The only question now is, did he personal know about it, which at this point, is yes.

The real problem is we don't know how deep this goes since we only learned about this particular meeting a year after it happened. This one meeting is enough to sink Trump, but I won't be shocked if a smoking gun comes out where Trump and his people handed over information that the Russians used in their cyber attack.
>>
>>276134
>>276131
Is this a copypasta or something? Pick one and delete it before you derail the thread.
>>
>>276121
Solicit money or other thing of value.
There was no money or goods involved tho
>>
>>276142
Assistance in campaigning, material or otherwise, is a thing of value. So is information, which is the crux here: the meeting was about dirt on Hillary.

We have campaign officials asking a foreign government for opposition research, IE soliciting material aid.
>>
>>276136
I mistakenly used 'analogy' instead of 'comparison[ and corrected it with a few other edits.
I know you're desperate to change the subject, but it doesn't change the fact that Trump just admitted his son, son in law and campaign manager all conspired to defraud the United States with a hostile foreign power and violated federal campaign laws. And that's the best case scenario.
>>
>>276146
I agree with you, I just want the thread talking about the president, not the lousy candidate he cheated to beat that the right will not shut up about.
>>
>>276147
I was telling /pol/'s damage control team why their whataboutism was a farce you even if people took the bait you dumdum.

The walls are closing in on Trump and people who want Trump banned from twitter are idiots, the man is the gift that keeps on giving.

https://www.newyorker.com/news-desk/swamp-chronicles/the-day-trump-told-us-there-was-attempted-collusion-with-russia
• Documents stolen from the Democratic National Committee and members of the Clinton campaign were later used in an overt effort to sway the election.

• When the Trump Tower meeting was uncovered, the President instructed his son and staff to lie about the meeting, and told them precisely which lies to use.

• The President is attempting to end the investigation into this meeting and other instances of attempted collusion between his campaign staff and representatives of the Russian government.
>>
>>276148
And just as a reminder. In an election campaign:

1. It is illegal to solicit illegally acquired information.

2. It is illegal to solicit ANY sort of aid from a foreign government.

And in general, it's illegal to perform, or try to perform, any action that could hamper an investigation into you with the intent to do so.

The guy is actually dirtier than Nixon. I didn't think that was POSSIBLE.
>>
>>276026
>BBC
>>
>>276149
And
Not only did Trump admitted that that his son conspired with a foreign operative to influence America's election.

BUT ALSO
He admitted he covered it up, which is the smoking gun for an obstruction of justice case, since you need underlying crime and reason for why someone would obstruct justice, and while there was Trump admitting to NBC he fired Comey because of Russia, this latest confession is proof he's obstructing justice.
>>
>>276150
>doubting the source
Motherfucker literally look at Trump's Twitter feed.
>>
>>276012
It goes to show how fantastic the country's systems of checks and balances are designed.

Trump is literally and objectively a complete fucking idiot. Everytime he speaks, he exagerates to unbelievable levels, rambles in coherently, or just says something so stupid you wonder how he managed to live for long. Yet the country is still doing fine.

Just imagine how many levels of stupidity it took to think of that tweet, type it, think it was a good idea, and hit send
>>
>>276160
I wouldn't say 'fine', but we are most definetely tanking it. The system can survive a terrible leader.
>>
>>276160
>>Trump is literally and objectively a complete fucking idiot. Every time he speaks, he exaggerates to unbelievable levels, rambles in coherently, or just says something so stupid you wonder how he managed to live for long.
Except when the left spends hours attempting to decipher and interpret his tweets as evidence of *spins wheel* obstruction/collusion/conspiracy- take your pic, then his tweets are crystal clear affirmations of "facts" that need no interpretation other than what they've done themselves

Every time it's "literally the worst thing ever, literally collusion, literally treason, literally conspiracy" and every time the reactions and accusations are walked back to "no but it might be, we just have to keep looking for proof of what we already decided is true!"

With the judge declaring an early recess and calling out the prosecution in Manafort's trial for trying to intentionally confuse the jury by presenting a non-expert witness as an expert witness, despite the prosecution affirmatively stating otherwise in agreement before the trial, every "outrage" just feels like increasing desperation.
>>
>>276160
>>276164
The REAL problem is congress and the fact they're just as much of puppets to Russia as Trump because of their desire to keep power.

If Democrats controlled congress, we'd already have all his crimes laid bare and he'd probably be on trial for treason by now. But Republicans are doing their damnest to obstruct justice as well by not only sabotaging the investigation, but forcing the DoJ ad Mueller to hand over their findings in order for them to hand it to Trump, which is insane. Who else is allowed to see how they're being investigated if the rule of law matters? And don't forget, every republican now is just spewing the talking point that conspiracy against the United States is not a crime now, so even if Mueller comes out with a recording with Trump speaking to Putin where they coordinate the attack on America, Republicans would not act.

The other major thing is if republicans do anything and if they manage to rig the upcoming elections to keep power (Not only gerrymandering and voter suppression), but outright Russian inference since they voted to gut funding for election security.

We are far from out of the woods yet.
>>
>>276187
>The other major thing is if republicans do anything and if they manage to rig the upcoming elections to keep power
Remember those "It's not rigged, you're just losing" t shirts? I miss those.

Good attempt preemptive damage control though.
>>
>>276186
Is this why the right wingers are going 'no collusion! no collusion!' and now on a dime are going 'okay, there was collusion but it's not a crime!"?
It's the treason, stupid.

>With the judge declaring an early recess and calling out the prosecution in Manafort's trial for trying to intentionally confuse the jury by presenting a non-expert witness as an expert witness, despite the prosecution affirmatively stating otherwise in agreement before the trial, every "outrage" just feels like increasing desperation.
Citations desperately needed.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/manafort-trial/index.html

>>276188
>Implying voter suppression didn't hand at least 1 state to Trump
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-id-law-turned-voters-estimate/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/us/wisconsin-voters.html

>Implying Russians didn't attack state election systems and successfully breached some to get into voter rolls
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections.

>Implying Republicans are both refusing to fund and outright defunding election security.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-seeks-to-close-federal-election-agency-1500325218
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/397805-house-gop-refuse-to-boost-funding-for-election-security
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/senate-republicans-reject-250-million-effort-to-fund-election-cybersecurity-measures-2018-08-01

>Implying Trump isn't conspiring with Putin for the next attack on our election after he refuses to do anything to stop Russia, says Russia wasn't behind the attack and side with him over US Intel
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html

If you don't want to be so accused of being corrupt, stop acting so corrupt son.
>>
>>276149
>dirtier than Nixon
Please. I honestly believe Trump is not smart enough to be dirtoer than Nixon. To achieve that, he'd have to order illegal wiretaps (like Nixon did) while complaining about how his campaign was spied on. That would be worthy of Nixon.
>>
>>276215
Dirtier =/= smarter/craftier/subtler. Wiretapping might be dirty, but Nixon didn't jeopardize an entire country's election security for the chance to be President *just so he could say he was.*
>>
>>276215
Nixon didn't conspire with foreign powers to...oh wait, Vietnam.

Okay, but he's close.
>>
>>276121
Did they solicit though? All accounts I've seen have the foriegn agents approaching them. Is it still solicitation if they come to you? If they had a meeting and nothing of value was gained... Is it still illegal?
>>
>>276194
>Citations desperately needed.
3 seconds in google
https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-ellis-loses-all-patience-with-prosecutors-and-ends-court-early-over-major-screw-up/

>Judge Ellis, who was already standing by this point, advised Ayliff to wait and announced the court would recess early.
>After the jury left, Ellis took a few minutes to tell the press and public all about the bench conference. As it turns out, not only was Ayliff a non-noticed witness being asked to give the equivalent of expert testimony, but the prosecution and defense had already agreed on what the term “financial interest” meant. Moreover, this agreement was provided on a proposed–and approved–jury instruction.
>That is, not only was Ayliff not an expert and not a noticed expert as necessitated by the Federal Rules of Evidence–but his testimony had the potential to derail an already-agreed-upon definition of the term(s) in question. This, Ellis said, could have “confused or clouded” things for the jury.

>Implying voter suppression didn't hand at least 1 state to Trump
Neither of those links prove your point, the margin of votes Trump won by are much larger than what was supposedly effected by "suppression", which is a funny way of asking people to bring the IDs they used to register to vote, to actually vote.

>Implying Russians didn't attack state election systems and successfully breached some to get into voter rolls
>Implying any votes were changed
>Implying several states haven't already debunked the claim their election systems were hacked or tampered with
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election/california-wisconsin-deny-election-systems-targeted-by-russian-hackers-idUSKCN1C32SQ
>>
>>276194
[cont]
>Implying Republicans are both refusing to fund and outright defunding election security.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/14/obama_trump_stop_whining_elections_rigged_or_stolen.html
>Obama to Trump: "Stop Whining," "No Serious Person" Believes U.S. Elections Can Be Rigged Or Stolen

>Implying Trump isn't conspiring with Putin
>Implying there's any evidence for this
>Implying this isn't pure speculation from increasingly desperate news outlets who rely on anonymous sources and can't handle being criticized or questioned about them

>If you don't want to be so accused of being corrupt, stop acting so corrupt son.
If you throwing stones in glass houses I feel bad for you son, you've got 99+ problems including Uranium One
>>
>>276218
>Is it still solicitation if they come to you?
If you don't report it and entertain the offer seriously by having a meeting? Yes.

Even if nothing came of it? Yes.

Solicitation does not require delivery.
>>
>>276128
I think a better analogy is along the lines of:
>But officer, I was only going 10 mph over the limit, that car is doubling it! What about them?
>>
>>276223
>that car is doubling it, according to this bootleg speed radar I have right here! Yours is wrong!
FTFY
>>
>>276223
>that petard
10 over the limit isn't a felony

Doubling the speed limit however, would most definitely be a felony
>>
>>276220
>If you throwing stones in glass houses I feel bad for you son, you've got 99+ problems including Uranium One
If Uranium One was so corrupt, why isn't the Department of Justice investigating or attempting to prosecute it?
>>
>>276226
Because it wasn't corrupt. All of it's disproven bullshit that brainless faggots like him desperately cling to because without whataboutism they would have to be forced to face the fact that they're a shit person.
>>
>>276231
Well, yes, but I wanted to see how he was going to explain it away.
>>
>>276226
>why isn't the Department of Justice investigating
They are, as is the FBI, the Dep of Commerce, and a House comitee
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-clinton-informant-exclusive/exclusive-secret-witness-in-senate-clinton-probe-is-ex-lobbyist-for-russian-firm-idUSKBN1DG1SB
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/06/politics/elijah-cummings-adam-schiff-uranium-one/index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/18/trump-administration-opens-uranium-import-probe-new-tariffs-possible.html

>or attempting to prosecute it?
Better question is: why are they refusing to turn over documents about it if there's nothing there?
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/04/10/judicial-watch-sues-for-uranium-one-documents-n2469646

>>276231
>All of it's disproven bullshit that brainless faggots like him desperately cling to because without whataboutism they would have to be forced to face the fact that they're a shit person.
You shouldn't project anon
>>
>>276234
>They are, as is the FBI, the Dep of Commerce, and a House comitee
Republicans in the House and Senate investigating doesn't mean shit; they'd investigate a fart if it served partisan purposes. None of your links indicate that the DoJ or the FBI are investigating. The Department of Commerce investigation is a Section 232 Investigation that does not allege and indeed does not even have the authority to look into alleged wrongdoing.
>>
>>276238
>Republicans in the House and Senate investigating doesn't mean shit; they'd investigate a fart if it served partisan purposes.

>None of your links indicate that the DoJ or the FBI are investigating
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutors-ask-fbi-agents-info-uranium-one-deal-n831436
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/372861-uranium-one-informant-makes-clinton-allegations-in-testimony
https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff-sessions-orders-doj-interview-fbi-agents-uranium-one-clinton-2017-12
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-president-maryland-based-transportation-company-indicted-11-counts-related-foreign
https://www.axios.com/justice-department-ordered-to-re-examine-uranium-one-probe-1515110761-044ee489-24fb-4b08-9525-a1fa3888815b.html

They are literally all over the web, you have to literally cover your eyes to not see them.

>The Department of Commerce investigation is a Section 232 Investigation that does not allege and indeed does not even have the authority to look into alleged wrongdoing
Yet is they discover wrongdoing, they can refer to authoritative bodies who do have that authority.
I'm sure there's nothing though :)
>>
>>276238
>>276233
Also, I'd just like to point out you completely forgot to admit you were wrong about the other points in my post you were hoping no one would notice you ignoring
>>
>>276241
1, 3, 5. This isn't a reopened investigation. It's the DoJ asking the FBI to explain the investigation they already closed. If they don't like the answer, they may re-open the investigation, but there is no indication that it has occurred.
2. This isn't an action by the FBI/DoJ.
4. This isn't related to Uranium One.

>>276242
>Also, I'd just like to point out you completely forgot to admit you were wrong about the other points in my post you were hoping no one would notice you ignoring.
I haven't asked you about anything other than Uranium One.
>>
You people are getting paid to shill on this board right? Or do you unironically sit here and copypaste from WaPo articles for fun all day?

This is laughable
>>
>>276250
do you get paid to yell at people posting articles from wapo all day
>>
>>276250
>S-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-sstop posting things that don't fit my n-n-n-n-n-n-narrative!!!!!!! ! ! ! !!!
>>
>>276219
>>276220
And the problem? The Judge is clearly in Trump's pocket since he also barred the prosecution from using the term 'oligarchy', so of course he's going to make the prosecution's case as difficult as possible. But it doesn't matter due to the sheer amount of evidence and witnesses against Manafort and the fact the defenses' only case is 'He didn't know it was a crime' and 'he just filled out the forms wrong'

>Implying some states (real red flag with Republican states) represent all of them and the ones that did heed the warning their systems was attacked
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05/13/states-bolster-defenses-against-russia-election-hacking.html
>Implying your strawman with Obama maters
>Implying your whataboutism about a clearly debunked lie matters

You're out of your league /pol/ppet.
>>
>>276255
>And the problem? The Judge is clearly in Trump's pocket since he also barred the prosecution from using the term 'oligarchy', so of course he's going to make the prosecution's case as difficult as possible.
It is the job of every judge to govern their courtroom so as to avoid undue bias against the defendant. For example, a judge may forbid the prosecution from using the term "thug" in a criminal case about some common crime or another. This doesn't mean that the judge is being paid off by a gang or whatever conspiracy theorist you would whip up to explain this away.
>>
>>276253
>>276251
I come here for awhile every couple months or so and have noticed every single anti Trump OP with a leftwing source like the Washington Post has exactly the same format when it's started. There's also always an easily identifiable guy who is obviously the OP in the thread who will spend days arguing with anyone criticizing the article as well. It really makes me think.
>>
>>276257
>There's a paid psyop in place designed to take down the president whose approval rating is just over 40%
Now THAT shit makes me think.
>>
>>276250
t. breitbart reader
>>
>>276257
>There's also always an easily identifiable guy who is obviously the OP in the thread who will spend days arguing with anyone criticizing the article as well. It really makes me think.
HOL UP HOL UP HOL UP SO WHAT YOU BE SAYIN IS THAT PEOPLE WHO VISIT AN ANONYMOUS IMAGE BOARD AS A HOBBY SHOULD JUST STOP HAVING COMPETING OPINIONS THEY CAN BACK UP WITH ARTICLES N STATISTICS N SHIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
>>
>>276262
Is this where you try and pretend like it isn't common knowledge Democratic organizations spent tons of money for people to shill for them on the internet? If you are getting paid I hope it's worth it at least.

>>276262
>>276264
>>276266
Also very weird all of these posts came immediately after one another. Just makes you think is all.
>>
>>276269
Maybe it's because you have a terrible opinion and a lot of people disagree with you.
>>
>>276270
Nah. Honestly just seems like obvious samefagging. Keep pretending to be retarded though.
>>
>>276269
>Is this where you try and pretend like it isn't common knowledge Democratic organizations spent tons of money for people to shill for them on the internet?
It's possible that he's getting paid by HIllary, but it's also possible that you're getting paid by Russians, but both of these claims are astoundingly unlikely and would be irrelevant even if they were, outlandishly, true. Argue to the post, not to the person.

Also, one WaPo article is getting posted every day, which might be a terrifying high-speed rate for a board like /news/, but objectively it's really not very much of a commitment.
>>
>>276272
>It's possible that he's getting paid by HIllary, but it's also possible that you're getting paid by Russians, but both of these claims are astoundingly unlikely and would be irrelevant even if they were, outlandishly, true
Nah I disagree entirely. The reason Russians posted pro Trump stuff during the election was to sow division. The reason organizations like ShareBlue continue to pay people to shill on reddit and other websites is because they are trying to influence people to their political side.
>>
>>276275
>Nah I disagree entirely. The reason Russians posted pro Trump stuff during the election was to sow division.
Accusing people of being paid shills sows division.
>>
>>276276
Division in where? 4chan? Yeah mate you totally got me I work for Putin and am not just one of a million 4chan posters who want shills to fuck off from this site
>>
>>276277
>Yeah mate you totally got me I work for Putin and am not just one of a million 4chan posters
The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
>>
>>276278
Not really. People have been complaining about shills on this site for ages so me making the statement as if I'm part of a larger group is completely reasonable. I don't want any of them here, but if you really think there's an equal chance of some ShareBlue mong being here or some russian bot being here I can consider you a retard and we can move on.
>>
>>276279
>Not really. People have been complaining about shills on this site for ages so me making the statement as if I'm part of a larger group is completely reasonable.
People have been complaining about paranoid retards like you who accuse everyone who disagrees with them with being a shill for ages, too.

>I don't want any of them here, but if you really think there's an equal chance of some ShareBlue mong being here or some russian bot being here I can consider you a retard and we can move on.
There are absolutely Russian drones and other right-wing shills on 4chan. It does not take an intelligence agent to realize that /pol/ is a font of internet culture.

You can, of course, believe whatever the fuck you want.
>>
>>276271
Did you write, “Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is A Shill: An Emotional Child’s Guide to Political Discourse?”
>>
>>276280
>There are absolutely Russian drones and other right-wing shills on 4chan.
The likelihood of the average post with ring wing views being a shill is astronomically lower than the likelihood of the average left ping post being a shill. I don't know why I even have to explain this to you.

>People have been complaining about paranoid retards like you who accuse everyone who disagrees with them with being a shill for ages, too.
You are incredibly new to this website if you aren't aware of the left wing shillposting going on during the election. I don't what to say. I think you're just mad I called you a retard at this point lmao
>>
>>276282
>I don't know why I even have to explain this to you.
Because you're a partisan faggot who deals primarily in conspiracy theories rather than evidence.

>You are incredibly new to this website if you aren't aware of the left wing shillposting going on during the election.
What I do know is that I've been accused of being everything from tumblr SJW to Shareblue to a glow-in-the-dark CIA nigger for expressing political opinions once common on 4chan, leading me to conclude that your average /pol/ack crying "shill" is actually a underaged, conspiratorial, retarded child who found 4chan during the election.

>I don't what to say. I think you're just mad I called you a retard at this point lmao
I'm mad that you are actively shitting on the culture of /news/ by importing your retarded "everyone who disagrees with me is paid" /pol/ meme to it.
>>
>>276283
>I'm mad that you are actively shitting on the culture of /news/ by importing your retarded "everyone who disagrees with me is paid" /pol/ meme to it.
/new/ doesn't have a culture you retard. It's literally just a bunch of political mongs arguing about politics and shills posting threads like this.

>What I do know is that I've been accused of being everything from tumblr SJW to Shareblue to a glow-in-the-dark CIA nigger for expressing political opinions once common on 4chan
What political opinions do you have that were once common on 4chan? Please do tell me. Is this the part claim that /pol/ and it's equivalents weren't always racist as well? I've been telling people to gb2gaia since before you even knew what this fucking site was so don't tell me I "found 4chan during the election" you utter mongoloid.
>>
>>276269
>Also very weird all of these posts came immediately after one another. Just makes you think is all.
Meanwhile if the posts had come to your defense, proclaiming you and Qanon and GodTrumpDefenderofManKind(TM) as the only right parties, you wouldn't have said a thing. Long story short, you're a nigger. You have nigger-tier thinking. You'll always be a nigger. I like this current political season because it really shows you where the niggers are.
>>
>>276287
I don't need to like Trump to dislike retards like you
>>
>>276286
>/new/ doesn't have a culture you retard. It's literally just a bunch of political mongs arguing about politics
That's the culture. Arguing about politics, not race-to-the-bottom shill accusations.

>What political opinions do you have that were once common on 4chan?
I visited /pol/ during the net neutrality debate and it was an absolute fucking retard shit festival. You can't even mention crossdressing on 4chan these days without someone jumping down your throat. Nobody batted an eye at either of these things before /pol/ imported every single disaffected right-wing internet user to 4chan.

>Please do tell me. Is this the part claim that /pol/ and it's equivalents weren't always racist as well?
/pol/ never had equivalents. Pre-/pol/ racism was primarily humorous. Well-known flagship racist memes, like niggerwalk, nigga stole my bike, downfall of white man and so on were always humor first and political second.

>I've been telling people to gb2gaia since before you even knew what this fucking site was so don't tell me I "found 4chan during the election" you utter mongoloid.
A likely story.
>>
>>276288
No you absolutely ((((don't)))) like ((((Trump)))) when you've made countless posts in succession in a thread where ((((he)))) and his ((((administration)))) are being criticized. Go fucking kill yourself, you stupid nigger.
>>
>>276290
Yeah. I'm making posts because I hate shills. A retard like you might not have the brain capacity to notice common patterns so I don't blame you.

>>276289
>/pol/ never had equivalents.
Moot literally deleted one of /pol/'s precursors because it was too racist.
>>
>>276294
>Moot literally deleted one of /pol/'s precursors because it was too racist.
/new/ had started to become rather racist, so moot canned it. But on its last day it was not even a quarter as racist as /pol/ is today. The most well known /new/ meme in its closing days was not even purely racist - it cut both ways.

If you're a vintage /b/tard you should be able to tell the difference between a classic 4chan "racist" activity like choosing black avatars and blocking virtual traffic, and a modern 4chan "racist" activity like trolling BLM protesters so they chimp out and you can shoot them.
>>
>>276296
BLM is fucking retarded and should be trolled though
>>
>>276298
That's nice.
>>
>>276294
I'm new to this thread, but so far this discussion ahs been pretty civil, so many I can elaborate for >>276289

up until around gamergate/nu-/pol/, 4chan racism and "bigotry" was always a joke. Even the raids we did back before it was forbidden was a joke. We we never politically motivated, it was always "for the lulz" and as cringey as at it sounds now, that's all it really was.

Nowadays, this place is inundated with stormfags and PUA losers who have their cmpaigns to "use the power of anonymous" by forcing memes and getting idle anons riled up and down for fucking with people "for the lulz" like the oldfags used to.

Except now instead of raiding furries and habbo hotel, they're raiding political organizations governments because "muh 1488" or whatever the fuck, and it's all fucking bullshit.

I'm not a liberal, I'm from rural Canada and my family is all fisherman. But anon is getting manipulated by bad people for evil purposes and people are too vulnerable to memes. It's a fucking bad problem.
>>
>>276301
I think you're conflating the amount of unironic stormfront white nationalists on this site with the people who have right leaning views and who say nigger while expressing exaggerated viewpoints because it's 4chan. Look at HWNDU. How many of the people who showed up from /pol/ do you think are actual nazi tier? Half of them weren't even white.
>>
The funny thing is, if this is a crime, we already have concrete proof that Hillary already committed the crime.
Will she be prosecuted though? Doubtful.

S O R E L O S E R S
>>
>>276307
When did Hillary Clinton knowingly solicit campaign information from foreign agents?
>>
>>276304
Yeah, but look at all the "hang this fucking nigger," etc. shit you see on all boards now. Its everywhere. Post an image of a black person in any thread on any board and see what happens. You'll get some enraged Cletus screaming about, "chimp outs," and shit.

Old 4chan didn't give a shit about any of that and wouldn't have responded that way. He is right. The site was more innocent back then. Chiptunes, shoe on head, anime, trolling Tom Green, or calling Gamestops asking for Battletoads. Yeah, there was CP posten on /b/ now and then or some woman stepping on a cat in high heels, but it was still not a hateful place. People might do /pol/ for the lulz, but the hate is strong nonetheless and has been overpowering the lulz for a long time now, as well as drawing in a really, really shitty crowd to 4chan; teenagers and "never left being a teenage" college students with the ultimate edge and massive egos, combined with stormfront boomers and old Christian conservatives who start randomly ranting out, "the lord," and, "blessings," and shit.
>>
>>276304
It's pretty obvious non-white anons are all self loathing because they were either abandoned or scorned by society so they're lashing out anyway they can and they see Trump as their best way to get revenge.

The real problem are baby boomers from reddit. (Actual baby boomers, not that retarded force meme that's meant to attack oldfags.) I'm sure someone has the screenshots of them saying they shitpost on 4chan.
>>
>>276317
do you not remember the time 4chan was literally nicknamed the "internet hate machine"

yeah it's more politicized. i think it's rightly more politicized, but that's also a sign of the times. the entire internet is more politicized nowadays. that influences the culture of the site and thus the culture of the comedy. there were unironically a lot more teenagers on 4chan back then comparatively as well. not just a result of outsiders but also a result of the original userbase growing older. i was like 15 when i first came here. there's also the pushback against PC culture that 4chan has never been about and which has pushed a lot of userbase to the right because of the current climate. in the old days the right was one of the enemies. pushing PC culture themselves, having a war on video games, ect. and people have been complaining about muh edgy humor and muh racism on this site forever. that's part of what makes it great. you can call someone a stupid nigger and nobody cares.
>>
>>276319
>It's pretty obvious non-white anons are all self loathing because they were either abandoned or scorned by society so they're lashing out anyway they can and they see Trump as their best way to get revenge.
Do you really think that or is that what you're just trying to convince yourself of because you personally cannot fathom how some non-white person could like Trump or /pol/
>>
>>276323
>Supporting someone who hates your guts
Hmmm...
>>
/pol/ppets trying to derail this thread.

Don't forget, Trump's son conspired with the Russian. And Trump admitted it, and for some reason, made sure to deny knowing about it. Even though he does.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/trump-tower-meeting-russia/566840/
>>
>>276322
>do you not remember the time 4chan was literally nicknamed the "internet hate machine"
It was a joke, just like hackers on steroids, exploding vans, and buying dogs. Congratulations. You fell for it.

>and people have been complaining about muh edgy humor and muh racism on this site forever. that's part of what makes it great. you can call someone a stupid nigger and nobody cares.
Nobody is complaining about "muh edgy humor" or your hilarious double nigger jokes or whatever. I said it in >>276296: "If you're a vintage /b/tard you should be able to tell the difference between a classic 4chan "racist" activity like choosing black avatars and blocking virtual traffic, and a modern 4chan "racist" activity like trolling BLM protesters so they chimp out and you can shoot them."

>>276323
They're usually self-loathing Hispanics. Why would anyone black support a board whose collective wet dream is the day of the rope and which celebrates the death of every single nigger in the news, ever? It's funny the first ten thousand times, after that you realize that it's literally everyone just saying the same shit over and over without a trace of irony.
>>
>>276326
>This will be the end of Trump, said the nervous man for the fourth time this week

>>276328
>They're usually self-loathing Hispanics.
Speaking from experience are we?
>>
>>276328
>and a modern 4chan "racist" activity like trolling BLM protesters so they chimp out and you can shoot them."
If you think old /b/ wouldn't troll BLM if given the chance you are fucking retarded.

>They're usually self-loathing Hispanics.
Why are they "self-loathing"? Because in your mind nobody but wypipo could dare like Trump or post on /pol/ without some some of terrible traumatic experience. This is what you have to belief you have to maintain for yourself.

>Nobody is complaining about "muh edgy humor"
You literally just complained about people using the term chimp out which is a humorous term usually used for black people when they do something akin to rioting or violence.
>>
>>276326
Wow I'll definitely be voting for the US Democratic Party™ next election cycle! Drumpf is finished this time for sure
>>
>>276330
>Speaking from experience are we?
Based on people who keep showing up in the news like Nikolas Cruz, Elliot Rodger (PBUH), and 4chan's very own Allen Scarsella (dindu nuffin), all of whom were not-quite-white and were filled with hatred for their own non-white heritage.

>>276333
>If you think old /b/ wouldn't troll BLM if given the chance you are fucking retarded.
Old /b/ was an equal-opportunity troll, but they saved the special sauce for what they considered the trash of society back then, such as pedophiles, furries, animal abusers, the WBC, and - huh - white nationalists. Maybe they would have trolled BLM today. But they also would have trolled indiscriminately across the political spectrum, which /pol/ certainly doesn't fucking do

>You literally just complained about people using the term chimp out which is a humorous term usually used for black people when they do something akin to rioting or violence.
I wasn't complaining about the term, you fucking retard. I was complaining the actual fucking shooting of black people by 4chan posters, who go on to become /pol/ folk heroes.
>>
>>276336
>I was complaining the actual fucking shooting of black people by 4chan posters, who go on to become /pol/ folk heroes.
I think you overestimate the amount of /pol/ who unironically want people to go out and shoot blacks. There's also the guy who hid INNAWOODS and had a shootout with law enforcement or some shit and is a folk hero on /k/. That doesn't mean /k/ unironically wants people to go out and murder people.

>Based on people who keep showing up in the news like Nikolas Cruz, Elliot Rodger (PBUH), and 4chan's very own Allen Scarsella (dindu nuffin), all of whom were not-quite-white and were filled with hatred for their own non-white heritage.
So your experience is 3 mentally ill freaks, one of them being a forever alone /r9k/ poster. You are aware of how many millions of hispanics are conservatives in the US, right? According to your logic though we should only be worrying about these half whites because they're clearly the danger here.
>>
>>276336
>Elliot Rodger
>Trump supporter
What are you smoking
>>
>>276338
>I think you overestimate the amount of /pol/ who unironically want people to go out and shoot blacks.
Probably proportionate to the number of people who unironically want people to go out and shoot whites


I.E- an extremely small amount of overly loud idiots. (South Africa being an outlier)

>There's also the guy who hid INNAWOODS and had a shootout with law enforcement or some shit and is a folk hero on /k/.
Who exactly and over what?
>>
literally from the fucking OP article:

>While "collusion is not mentioned in U.S. criminal statutes
>which COULD result in criminal charges IF they entered into a conspiracy

So, again, just another nothingburger in a long, gigantic pile of nothingburgers. I guess the butthurt from the 2016 election was so immense, they're still just desperate for anything.
Anyways, Trump still has a scapegoat. Even if his son does end up admitting that he accepted illegal aid, Trump can still claim he didn't know the purpose of the meeting and it was done independently by his son. That'll just prolong this for another year or so, probably until 2020.
>>
>>276338
>You are aware of how many millions of hispanics are conservatives in the US, right? According to your logic though we should only be worrying about these half whites because they're clearly the danger here.
There's a lot of black conservatives too, and even a lot of black Trump supporters, but if you learn that a black man is in the KKK you should start at least speculating that maybe - just maybe - he might be a self-loathing black person.

>>276342
"Can't Corner the Dorner", the last time in recorded history that /pol/ supported a black man's complaints that whitey was keeping him down. Not coincidentally, this was in 2013, shortly before Gamergate and the election made /pol/ the undisputed capital of right-wing thought on the internet.
>>
>>276343
>No meeting
>Okay there was a meeting but they talked about adoption
>Okay the meeting was to get dirt on Hillary but so what
Why continuously lie about it if it wasn’t that big of a deal?
>>
>>276335
>>276330
Drip drip drip

>>276343
Collusion is the laymen way of saying Conspiracy to defraud the United States. Which is exactly what happened.
Keep damage control son.
>>
>>276309
Do you... Not remember the steele dossier? Wherein the Hillary led DNC payed a Brit spy for opposition research? You know, literally the thing this whole fucking investigation started on?
>>
>>276345
>Why continuously lie about it
I don't know. I guess we'll have to wait until we find out, possibly through this investigation.

>Collusion is the laymen way of saying Conspiracy to defraud the United States
Is it illegal or not, then? From the looks of it, it looks like his son's gonna be the one serving jail time, not the dad.

>Keep damage control, son
You too, bro. Only 2 more years to go! It's been a tough 2 years, hasn't it? I can only imagine how red your ass must have been since 2016.
>>
>>276336
>Old /b/ was an equal-opportunity troll, but they saved the special sauce for what they considered the trash of society back then, such as pedophiles, furries, animal abusers, the WBC, and - huh - white nationalists. Maybe they would have trolled BLM today. But they also would have trolled indiscriminately across the political spectrum, which /pol/ certainly doesn't fucking do
As one of the few oldfags who remembers the glory days and took part in those raids, we probably wouldn't have targeted BLM because it was a real life and not online movement. As for the 2016 election, we'd support Trump because it would cause the most tears, but after he's election, you bet your ass we'd turn on him just because of how thin skinned he is just for the chance of having him bitch us out on Twitter, which would be considered one of the greatest possible wins.

But yeah, /pol/ is entirely filled with ideologies who put agenda first over anything else. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that there are paid operations that are done through /pol/
>>
>>276349
>Is a crime a crime?
Hmmm...
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

>>276348
How many lies can you spot in this single sentence?
I spot 2 big ones already. Right wingers sure are desperate.
>>
>>276351
>In summary, those activities which courts have held defraud the United States under 18 U.S.C. § 371 affect the government in at least one of three ways:

>[cited in USAM 9-42.001]
>They cheat the government out of money or property;
>They interfere or obstruct legitimate Government activity; or
>They make wrongful use of a governmental instrumentality.
In the case that Trump Jr. is brought to court for charges against the second point, how would he be guilty of "interfering or obstructing legitimate government activity" if he says he ended up not getting any information through the meeting?

And like I said again, you brain-washed Dem cock-sucker, if anything, Trump Jr.'s the one going to jail, not the daddy.
>>
>>276348
A private British citizen is a great deal different from a Russian government agent, and there is no evidence that Hillary knew any of the foreigners that Fusion GPS was working with.

Also, the investigation was initially triggered by information given to the US by the Australian ambassador.
>>
>>276352
>Your honor you can't charge me with robbing a bank! I went into the bank with a mask and gun and demanding they give me all their money, but they said no so I walked out, so I didn't rob the bank!
>>
>>27621l.j
Nixon literally sabotaged Vietnam peace talks to fuck LBJ over. I'm not convinced Trump actively conspired with Russia and I'm pretty certain he didn't prolong any wars by working his back channels.

The smarter you are, the dirtier you can be. Trump simply can''t compete.
>>
>>276367
The problem is Trump thinks government is like the real estate industry where the more brazen you are, the more you can get away with and if you do get cornered, just pay off people. Unless Trump destroys our democracy, that's not going to happen, you can't pay off Mueller or think talking to him will suddenly make him think the rule of law doesn't apply to Trump.

The only reason Trump hasn't been hung yet is because he has a subservient congress that puts Russia ahead of America. I can't imagine what things would be like if Nixon had a Republican controlled congress since people like to say it was the Republicans who got Nixon to resign, well they fought the Democrats and rule of law the entire way until the smoking gun tape was released.

What Trump did is much worse because he conspired with a foreign adversary to attack our elections. Both Nixon and Reagan both undermined foreign policy, but Trump actively requested the aid of a hostile power that then attacked the US.

Also what makes Trump more dangerous than Nixon is Nixon was still an instiutionalist, he wasn't going to destroy the entire system to save himself, Trump on the other hand has no problem doing that to save his own fat hide. So I'm preparing for the worst in the midterms where the Russians not only attack, but do something brazen like purge voter rolls or even alter voter tallies, and then do it so everyone knows its them. And then the Republicans pretend everything is okay when they're declared the winners.
>>
>>276377
>conspired
Doesn't that require bilateral communication? Has it been established that that happened between Russian agents and people in the Trump campaign?
>>
>>276382
>Meeting happens
>Trump gives his 'Russia if you're listening' speech
>Later that day, Russia goes after the DNC and Clinton which is a prong in a wider campaign.
The fact they had the meeting was a conspiracy.
The really damning thing is we don't know how deep the conspiracy goes or how much damage it has done. Don't forget Khushner was exposed in attempting to set up a secret back channel through the Russian Embassy with no oversight from America and all the secret meetings Trump has taken with Putin.

At this point I won't be shocked to find out they actively coordinated and Trump had the data from Cambridge Analytica handed over to the Russians to help maximize the effectiveness of their attack. Of course that last part is conjecture still, but again, we don't know the extent of what happened, we do know Trump's family met with the Russians and it was to get 'dirt on Hillary'. Of course all we have is there word for that. So we are still having the drip, drip, drip. Just like how it was original about adoptions, then 'no collusion', now it's 'there was collusion.'
>>
>>276383
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be shocked at any of that either. But I think it's best to be cautious with these accusations and stick to known facts.
>>
>>276012

Donald Trump is the God Emperor. Get over it you leftist fuckers.
>>
>>276355
Yeah, you imbecile. He technically didn't rob the bank. He would be charged for something other than a robbery.
Don't be so buttblasted, lefty. You can sue Drumpf and his son all you want. Just stop sperging out and be accurate in what you want him sued for.
>>
>>276391
>be cautious with these accusations and stick to known facts.
He's some brain-washed mongoloid who thinks it would all have been paradise if his lord and savior Madame Hillary and the Dems got control of everything. He's eternally butthurt, and he's just being autistic and screeching about every little victory he can seemingly find.

He's been doing this for a long time. It'll take another mind-fuck on the level of 2016 to change his mind.
>>
>>276218
Trump asked russia to hack hillary during an election rally. You dont have to dig deep for this shit.
>>
>>276396
Please don't make this about Hillary and stick to the actual topic at hand.
>>
>>276397
>Trump asked russia to hack hillary during an election rally
not a single account says this.
the consensus is that they had likely already hacked hillary
>>
Daily reminder that collusion is not a crime.
>>
>>276398
>Please don't make this about Hillary
I didn't.
You must be new here. The OP is an incredibly autistic sperg who quite clearly, brazenly sucks Democrat cock, and explicitly says dumb, biased, partisan shit such as "it's all because of the Republicans. If Dems were in power, none of this would have happened." Technically true, but sorely lacking self-awareness. 70~90% of anti-Trump threads/posts in a day is made just by this one autist. You can tell by the posting style and time of activity.
>>
>>276403
Yeah, sure OP is clearly biased. But he posted the full article sourced from a real newspaper (inb4 WaPo is worse than Infowars) and put his own opinion in the last few, clearly delineated, lines. Seems OK to me for /news/ standards.
>>
>>276404
Nigga got a point, up to snuff if you ask me

>>276403
You probably do better if you attack his argument and not his character. Like the president clearly lies about anytging damaging and has been throwing any excuse at the wall and see what sticks, why stand by him? For the lulz?
>>
>>276403
Here the facts you can't refute since you can only resort to either ad hominem (attacking the poster), whataboutims (mum Hillary) or condoning criminal behavior (it wasn't a crime!)

As of Trump's smokin gun tweet
1. Trump's son and campaign team met with the Russians to get dirt on Clinton.
2. This constitutes conspiracy to defraud the United States.
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us
3. This was also solicitation of a donation by a foreign national ('Anything of value' also includes Information)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
4. And by admitting to these crimes, Trump has given the underlying reason for obstruction of justice (Why there was the initial cover up of what the meeting was about and the attempts to obstruct the investigation at every turn.)

Trump also claims they aren't crimes (they are), but then makes sure to distance himself too by saying 'I knew nothing about it' which is another red flag. But the big take away is he blew up his constant repetition of saying 'No collusion' (aka conspiracy to defraud the United States)

Obviously we'll learn more, but those the facts as we currently know.
Please proceed.
>>
>>276417
Props on you for posting the specific laws. Giuliani has been worming his way through the news networks saying 'I dunno what law you'd break by doing this, lol'. Apparently he's not familiar with campaign finance law.
>>
>>276419
Which is hilarious since Giulani used the laws he claims to be ignorant about to break up the mob in New York. He is either intellectually and morally bankrupt, or just gone senile.
>>
>>276425
>intellectually and morally bankrupt, or just gone senile.
Both
>>
>>276427
He’s been both for awhile. 9/11 kinda wiped our collective memory but he definitely announced his divorce to his second wife on live TV and she didn’t even know about it.
>>
>>276417
>This constitutes conspiracy to defraud the United States.
no fraud happened
>This was also solicitation of a donation by a foreign national
nothing of value was gained.
they didnt even get information as a donation, the information was released to the entire world
your argument is as soggy as used toilet paper
>>
>>276436
>no fraud happened
Not relevant. It's illegal to try it - just like attempted robbery is illegal.
>nothing of value was gained.
Again, not relevant, because it's illegal to even try. The word is SOLICIT, not RECIEVE.
>>
>>276012
To this day I wonder why my fellow Europeans still consider Russia to be our enemy.
Cold war has been over for quite some time, I don't get the "we need to be united against Russia" front.
>>
>>276438
>Not relevant.
Very relevant, you just don't like the fact.

>The word is SOLICIT, not RECIEVE.
And if they didn't SOLICIT because nothing was PRESENTED, there was no CRIME

Again, the facts do not fit your feelings. This meeting has been known for months and has been investigated by Mueller several times over. It's old news being recycled to give the illusion of hope to a flailing partisan probe.
>>
>>276432
John Oliver does a pretty good recap on Giulani's life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXQuto1fMp4

>>276441
Because it's a Kleptocracy run by an ex-KGB agent which has been dismantling democracies in eastern Europe and either attempting to, or meddling in elections in western Europe. (Brexit being their biggest feather in their cap) Also the whole thing with assassinating people in the UK.
>>
>>276445
>John Oliver
>pretty good
Pick one

>dismantling democracies
Are... are you aware of the US history in meddling in foreign affairs?

>(Brexit being their biggest feather in their cap)
If you're not trolling you're functionally retarded. That was a legitimate vote by every measurable mean. Again, people voting against how you feel they should vote isn't a conspiracy or a rigged election. You just lost. Deal with it.

>Also the whole thing with assassinating people in the UK.
You mean the completely baseless accusations by the UK government that were walked back after going no where except taking May to embarrassment town?
>>
>>276444
Ah, so you're an expert on federal law?

No, you're a moron.
>>
>>276450
>Ah, so you're an expert on federal law?
Are you?

>No, you're a moron.
No U
>>
>>276448
>whataboutism

Found the Rusbot. Not only does that not make it right when YOU do it, you're doing it WORSE. How legit was the last Russian election, hmm?

Because it's super totally fair when your opposition has been jailed/outlawed/poisoned.
>>
>>276451
I bet that's a great argument in the cortroom my guy

You're a shoo-in for Guliani's job.
>>
>>276225
Did you somehow miss the point?
>>
>>276448
>Personal attack
Not an argument

>Whataboutims
Not an argument

>Russia didn't meddle in Brexit
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-russia-influence-twitter-bots-internet-research-agency
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeting
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

>Walked it back
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/999777/salisbury-attack-russia-nerve-agent-novichok
>>
>>276452
>WAHHHHH WHATABOUTISM WAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>Found the Rusbot.
Again, whatever helps you sleep at night.

>Not only does that not make it right when YOU do it, you're doing it WORSE
Let me know when Russia actually drops bombs on the US to help militant rebels force a regime change

>Because it's super totally fair when your opposition has been jailed/outlawed/poisoned
Vince Foster, Peter W Smith, James McDougal, Mary Mahoney, Ron Brown, Ed Willey, Jerry Parks, Kathy Ferguson, Barbara Wise, Paul Wilcher and Seth Rich all called to say you're an angry moron
>>
>>276456
Nice list of names. How many died from polonium poisoning?

Oh right, NONE OF THEM.
>>
>>276444
Actually, it's not relevant because attempting it is a crime. If Trump were to shoot someone on 5th avenue and that person survived, Trump would still be charged with a crime.

>And if they didn't SOLICIT
Trump just admitted the meeting was getting dirt on Clinton, that's soliciting even if they got bait and switched. Which we don't know since we still don't have the full facts or truth of the meeting.

And funny you bring up Mueller, because you don't know what he knows or the actual extent of the meeting or any other meetings held. Remember Giulani just let the cat out of the bag that there was at least one other meeting about Russia held by the Trump campaign that wasn't public knowledge. And your best excuse is 'I want this over, it's not fast enough', when for a special counsel, Mueller is working extremely fast.

>>276456
>Get called out for his intellectually dishonest tactic
>Cries about being called out
>Then doubles down on his intellectually dishonest tactic
You do know you're not helping to convince anyone that your side is right, right?
>>
>>276455
>live in uk
>paki rapes your daughter
>russia uses twitter to remind you that paki rapes your daughter
>britbongs vote leave
>"oh no russia hacked the brexit, it doesn't count it doesn't count!"
>>
>>276455
>Not an argument
>Not an argument
Too bad bitch

>One supporter might have had business ties to Russia, so the whole thing is a sham!
>Twitter bots stole the election!
LOLOLOL, this is more pathetic every time it's used as an excuse. How do you run such a terrible campaign you get ousted by Twitter bots?

>Expecting extradition of two people despite having zero evidence of anything
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/david-morrison/conclusive-evidence-of-russia-s-guilt-in-skripal-case-is-lacking
https://www.businessinsider.com/porton-down-scientists-cannot-prove-novichok-skripal-russian-made-2018-4

>>276458
>Oh right, NONE OF THEM.
Suicides with multiple gun shots to the head are just as suspicious as polonium. Again, I know this makes you uncomfortable but it's important to not keep yourself in a media bubble.

>>276459
>If Trump were to shoot someone on 5th avenue and that person survived, Trump would still be charged with a crime.
Good thing what happened wasn't the equivalent of shooting someone on 5th Avenue. Seth Rich would laugh.

>Trump just admitted the meeting was getting dirt on Clinton, that's soliciting even if they got bait and switched.
>Which we don't know since we still don't have the full facts or truth of the meeting.
So then, since Trump is obviously a beacon of trustworthiness and accuracy, we should take his word for it IN SPITE OF ANY OTHER FACTS OR EVIDENCE
Trump Derangement syndrome has you by the balls my friend.

>You do know you're not helping to convince anyone that your side is right, right?
You do know I'm not the one who making outlandish accusations in the same breath as admitting they " don't have the full facts or truth" of what they're talking about?

Just keep calling everyone who disagrees with you a bot and keep hanging on every word the TV tells you. Be sure to take you anxiety meds too!
>>
>>276317
>Post an image of a black person in any thread on any board and see what happens.
I'd like to remind everyone that 4chan has always had a reflective quality. The change in overall sentiment on this site (which I too have witnessed) is less a statement about the evolution of 4chan culture, and more a reflection of how times have changed in the real world. Racial issues weren't as big of a deal back in the early days of 4chan, and the attitude of general society was still to laugh it off and move on. Things are very different now, and a lot of it happened during the Obama administration. Take that how you will.
>>
>>276461
>Double down on not making an argument
Noice

>One supporter
One of the leaders and chief financier of the Brexit campaign is now under investigation by the NCA for his connections to Russia.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-russia-arron-banks-investigated-leaveeu-national-crime-agency-a8425321.html

>Posion known to be manufactured and used by Russia to target an enemy of putin, was used against someone else.
Meanwhile in reality.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-poison-russia-williamson/russian-attack-led-to-death-of-woman-from-novichok-uk-defense-minister-idUSKBN1JZ1V8
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/07/19/uk-nerve-agent-attack-russian-suspects/799484002/

>More whataboutism
>Personal Attacks
>Projection
Still waiting for you to make a valid argument.
>>
>>276467
>Double down on not addressing an argument
Noice

>Being under investigation for being offered deals
>Being offered legal deals is committing a crime
>Deals involving trade contingent on a legitimate election that would result changing trade relations are crimes
Was this a crime as well?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-obama-medvedev/obama-tells-russias-medvedev-more-flexibility-after-election-idUSBRE82P0JI20120326

>"Russian attack"
>Still no evidence Russia was behind attack
>But these Russian spies totally entered the country normally, recorded their visits, and got caught on CCTV walking around London around where the attack happened!
>Now we'll demand extraditions for crimes we can't prove they committed!
UK law enforcement is a joke. Go fine another construction worker for having an empty bag of chips in his car.

>Still waiting for you to make a valid argument.
Tu quoque
>>
>>276470
You realize that 'everyone is doing it' does not make it right?

You can be as petulant as you like, it doesn't make your opinion not shit.
>>
>>276470
>Still not making an argument
I'll humor you, sticking only to the story, tell me where John Oliver is wrong about what he says about Giulini or how Whataboutism is a valid form of argument. Because that's you're trying to push.

>More whataboutism
>I know more about the investigation than the British Government.
>I can't make a valid argument
Okay.

>>276473
He's waging a war of attrition to get the last word since he clearly has zero credibility on the subject seeing as he's moving further and further away from the facts that Trump conspired with the Russians. This tactic might work on /pol/ where we'd have multiple people dogpiling, but he's all alone here, so it's exposed as the tirade of one person.
>>
>>276474
Reality is a harsh teacher.
>>
>>276473
It's not even 'everyone is doing it' because what Trump did and Obama did are not even comparable, but they're still going to try and compare it to create a moral relativity to justify Trump's actions.

Just to annoy him further, he's the video that exposed Trump and /pol/'s favorite arguement tactic from their favorite current year man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TejoMjHk3x0

And you have to appreciate the irony that the go to tactic of the side that's claiming they aren't conspiring with the Russian, is using an old Soviet Union tactic.
>>
>>276474
>tell me where John Oliver is wrong
He's a terrible comedian making jokes on a for-profit talk show and presenting them as facts.

>Okay.
Still waiting for that evidence

>>276473
>You realize that 'everyone is doing it' does not make it right?
You ever hear the old phrase about throwing stones in glass houses?

>You can be as petulant as you like, it doesn't make your opinion not shit.
You can also be as petulant as you like, it doesn't make your evidence-less opinion any more not shit.

>>276476
>what Trump did and Obama did are not even comparable
Mmmmm opinions

>posting more John Oliver
How about you just start posting standup routines and cartoons?

>And you have to appreciate the irony that the go to tactic of the side that's claiming they aren't conspiring with the Russian, is using an old Soviet Union tactic.
Well, as we all know, everyone who disagrees with certain points on /news/ are clearly Russian soviet union bots using Russian soviet union tactics. If onl;y they would just listen and believe in the Correct Opinions(TM)
>>
>>276479
>So you can't refute anything John Oliver says.
Okay

>Still hasn't posted evidence
Okay

>One conspired with a hostile foreign power to attack the US election while running for office in order to win, the other was not
Hmmmm... Facts.

>Still can't refute any of his points
>Being this butthurt that your go to 'debate' tactic has been exposed and can be hand waved instead of derailing the thread.

You still haven't even justified how conspiracy to defraud the united states, violating federal campaign laws, or obstruction of justice regarding the Trump Tower meeting isn't a crime,
>>
>>276479
>ignoring evidence
>ad hominem
>tu qoque

COMBO BONUS!
>>
>>276480
>Okay
>Refuting the comedian or else!
You can keep pounding your fist, it's not happening

>Okay
Post the evidence Russia was behind the attack. Just do it :)

>One conspired with a hostile foreign power to attack the US election
>Hmmmm... Facts.
Pic one, or post the evidence :)

>You still haven't even justified how conspiracy to defraud the united states, violating federal campaign laws, or obstruction of justice regarding the Trump Tower meeting isn't a crime
"That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Now call me a Russian bot again, please. You have to do that several times per hour a mandated by UK law, right?

>>276481
>doesn't post evidence
>he's ignoring the evidence!
>LEL OLD 4CHAN MEME XD
Do you actually even know what a tu quoque is? You don't, do you?
>>
>>276485
Who else makes Novichok?

The evidence is literally Trump's tweet. What evidence do we have it breaks the law? READ THE LAW, RETARD.
>>
>>276485
>Can't refute what John Oliver says
>Has to resort to personal attacks because he can't refute it.

>Post the evidence Russia was behind the attack.
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-hacker-claims-theres-proof-he-hacked-dnc-761727
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/world/europe/trump-intelligence-russian-election-meddling-.html
https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-hackers/u-s-authorities-identify-six-russian-officials-in-dnc-hack-wsj-idUSKBN1D21MI
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2018/03/09/cia-russian-hackers-on-same-china-server-says-kaspersky/#26915c2a59a3
https://www.businessinsider.com/dnc-hacker-guccifer-confirmed-as-russian-agent-after-forgetting-to-conceal-identity-2018-3
I just googled the first page of stuff, Inb4 you poison the well.

>Implying Trump's Twitter account isn't evidence
Go back to being dead Chris.
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/17568806/mueller-russia-intelligence-indictment-full-text
>Incoming poisoning the well

I never called you a Russian bot, I'll call you a /pol/ppet though if you REALLY are that lonely.
>>
>>276488
Twas *I* who called him a Rusbot. Guilty as charged!
>>
>>276489
Call him a /pol/ppet instead. They do it for free. They don't even get hot pockets.
>>
>>276490
No hit pockets? What a horrible job.
>>
>>276487
Facilities in great Britain, apparently
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/porton-down-what-is-explained-experiments-salisbury-wiltshire-novichok-latest-a8431951.html
>>
>>276490
>>276491
we used to get chicken tendies, but they ran out
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bINVg3FQ8cE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOZ8fNnhsbI
>>
>>276543
Please label your links. I like Anderson Cooper but your post looks like spam.
>>
>>276545
>He doesn't have 4chanX
Fucking phone posters
>>
>>276479
>>276485
>He hates comedians reporting the facts.
I think this calls for a closer look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKzmJhSFHzc
>>
>>276554
When the king is mad, the Jester is the wisest man in the court.
>>
>>276021
>the US isn't at war with Russia.
conspiring with another country to gain power/influence is still treason anon.

At best this could be argued down to sedition, which is also illegal and carries a 20 year jail penalty.
>>
>>276063
Scheming within your own party to fuck over a rival candidate isn't treason or sedition.

Scheming against a political rival with the help of a foreign government is. Hillary was just better at bullshitting the process(hence her emails) whereas Donald was stupid enough to go to the russians that have been bakrolling him since the 90s.
>>
>>276554
>>276555
Every time I see someone celebrate John Oliver I reassure myself with the fact that it's faggots like him who got Trump elected.
>>
>>276397
A real spin doctor right here.

As I recall, he asked that if they have the 30k emails that Hillary purged from her private server, that he wanted them to release them.
>>
>ctrl+f "Logan Act"
>0 Results
Wat
>>
>>276567
We don't have proof he made unauthorized promises on behalf of the govt yet. Right now it's mostly the fact that the meeting actually happened, what it was about, and that he admits it, not what he offered in exchange for the dirt he supposedly never got.
>>
>>276567
People don't really talk about the Logan Act because it's been violated so many times that starting to enforce it now would make it look like a partisan hack job, which it would be.
>>
>>276147
>the lousy candidate he cheated to beat

she spent a billion dollars and had the us government working on her behalf....and still lost.

keep gnashing your teeth snowflake... only 6 more years.
>>
>>276584
You'd think if the government were working for Hillary they would have told us about how Trump Jr. attempted to get political dirt from the Russian government and that his advisers were corrupt piece of shit ass deep in Russians BEFORE the election and not afterwards.
>>
>>276584
Don't forget the deep state also paid her 6 gorillion dollars to turn the fricken frogs gay
>>
>>276586
>Trump Jr. attempted to get political dirt from the Russian government
nothing illegal about this
>his advisers were corrupt piece of shit
yup, sadly nearly all political advisers are.
>>
>>276588
>nothing illegal about this
>yup, sadly nearly all political advisers are.
Even if it weren't illegal, which there's a reasonable argument for, it's still a rather large piece of political dirt that the FBI sat on for the entirety of the election period without saying a word.
>>
>>276590
>it's still a rather large piece of political dirt that the FBI sat on for the entirety of the election period without saying a word.
... is the FBI supposed to release political dirt during elections?
>>
>>276592
That's what you would expect them to do if they were working on one candidate's behalf.
>>
>>276593
...so its good that this didnt happen, right?
>>
>>276592
The FBI was biased in favor of Trump. Ironically Trump and the Republicans turn on them.

No honor among thieves.
>>
>>276607
man, with the all the support trump had, like the FBI, all white americans, most christians, and 2654 counties out of 3141, he didnt even need the russians
>>
>>276609
He not only needed those and the Russians, but a massive voter suppression campaign which we know handed him at least Wisconsin.
And he still lost by 3 million in the popular vote, but of course we use the electoral college that favors Republicans.
>>
>>276610
>a massive voter suppression campaign
Jajajaja
>>
>>276630
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States
>>
this entire thread is HER TURN
>>
>All Trumpfags can do is live in the past.
>Just like Trump
Well those crimes are coming home to roost.
>>
>>276631
Many of these are laws requiring an id to vote, or just long vote lines.
Sounds like a real grade A humanitarian crisis
>>
>>276635
>crimes
[citation needed]
>>
>>276639
>Artificially lengthening voter lines is okay
>Telling a specific demographic known for voting a specific way to go from one station to another is okay
>""""Losing"""" specific demographic's voter information is okay
:)
>>
>>276488
None of those "sources" actually confirm or verify anything, even if you suck Democrat cock and left-biased news outlets all day. Sorry, lefty. It seems like your butthurt won't be ending anytime soon.
>>
>>276661
All these flavors, and you chose to be salty...
>>
>>276641
See
>>276417
3 Crimes happened to so far, and there is absolutely zero way Trump didn't know about, or sign off on the meeting.
>>
>>276691
>3 Crimes happened to so far because some random anon on the internet says so
FTFY
>>
>>276695
lolno

USC 52 30121, soliciting aid from a foreign government.

USC 18 371, conspiracy to defraud the United States.

And many, many, many subsections of USC 18 73, obstruction of justice.

You can't say 'it's not a crime' if the LAW very clearly says it is.
>>
>>276696
b-b-b-but it's not a crime because some random anon on the internet says so!
>>
>>276632
Only Trumplets still care about "muh Hillary"
>>
>>276563
Your "x is why Trump got elected" excuse is really getting flimsy now.
It's obvious he got help from friends in high places (not necessarily Russia, though).
>>
>>276708
Only because she's out of the limelight now and delusional retards can focus all their energy on dehumanizing Trump now that they don't have to prop up that near-dead witch.
>>
>>276699
Your parents must be disappointed about how you turned out.
Stop posting and stop playing with your feces.
It's time to put on your helmet and get on the special bus.
>>
>>276725
>Get BTFO
>Can only result to insults petty insults
Typical /pol/ppet behavior.
>>
>>276713
Trump easily dehumanizes himself enough. He's just reacting to his own mirror, really.
>>
>>276696
>anonymous person citing laws on the internet they claim were violated means it's a crime
I'm sure you're a prosecutor or someone who passed the bar, right?

Let us know when charges get rolled out about this event Mueller has known about for months, instead of endlessly repeating "any day now" for the 100th time.

>>276730
>trump derangement syndrome continues
>inb4 no u!
>>
>>276758
>I'm sure you're a prosecutor or someone who passed the bar, right?
And I'm sure you're a top dollar defense attorney. Get the fuck over yourself.

Or better yet, get googling. How many lawyers besides Rudy Guliani can you find who are looking at this and saying 'yep, nothing to worry about here, business as usual, happens all the time!'
>>
>>276758
>Being a true Patriot, and siding with America and the rule of law over Putin and Trump means you have trump derangement syndrome
Okay
>>
just another place for the leftist BULLSHIT FUCKHEADS to spew their vomit....
>>
>>276774
nothing is preventing rightist bullshit fuckheads from spewing vomit here if they want to
>>
>>276777
>nothing is preventing rightist bullshit fuckheads from spewing vomit here if they want to
They're already doing this because those mean, old lefties are daring to post facts and that triggers the right wingers.
>>
>>276112
So then how did they collude if they didn't actually get anything?
>>
>>276794
We actually don't know if they got anything since the only word we have are Trump and his people, and they've lied throughout the entire process in their cover up and attempts to obstruct justice (A crime too.)

We do know at the very least they attempted to get information and that in of itself is a crime.
>>
>>276799
>they attempted to get information and that in of itself is a crime.
Yep.

This bears repeating - the law does not take dealing with foreign powers lightly. You are not allowed to even ASK.

This is also the only practical way to have a law like this - how would you know if the information gleaned, if any, was useful?
>>
>>276799
How common is this as an act though?
I know Hilary's people tried to get information from the Ukrainians. Obama made a deal with the Russians over his election, Jeb Bush started the Steele dossier, which was colluding with the British as opposed to the Russians. For all we know the McCain campaign got information on Reverend Wright from a foreign power, and no doubt every major power in the middle East tried to someone elected in 2004. Israel probably wanting bush re-elected, with countries like Iran, Libya, wanting Kerry to win because they perceived him as more likely to get the US out of war in the middle East, and out of the region. And it can keep going backwards.
>>
>>276961
>Jeb Bush started the Steele dossier, which was colluding with the British as opposed to the Russians
Why do you lie so blatantly by implying it was done by the British government and not an individual?
>>
>>276126
Funny, because the Electoral College was instrumental in her defeat despite her winning the popular votes. Yes, this was mostly due to votes from high-population blue states like California, but the people's will is the people's will, just like Brexit. Yet all that was overturned simply because that fucktard Comey and his letter botched it.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/16/17576764/trump-electoral-college-putin
>>
>>276395
>he would be charged for something other than a robbery
He would be charged for ATTEMPTED robbery. All you need to do to charge someone is to prove intent. An inchoate crime is still a crime, otherwise attempted murder wouldn't be formally recognised as a crime either.
>>
>>276961
>Yes, I know Billy shitting himself in class was unacceptable
>but what about Johnny who shat on the floor?

Always the same arguments. What about, what about, what about, with no real argument in sight, and it's not even based on hard fact. If moral relativism is all it takes to justify any wrong, we'd all be living in shitholes like Somalia.
>>
>>276977
How do we know these officials aren't Russian individuals and not with the Russian state?
>>
>>277002
The two main Russians at the meeting, Natalia Veselnitskaya admitted was an informant for the Russian government and Rinat Akhmetshin has ties to Russian intelligence services.

Even the fake cover for the meeting was about the Magnitsky Act, which was about pushing the interests of Putin.
>>
>>277010
>The two main Russians at the meeting
>Whose entrance into the country was approved by Loretta Lynch
>who had dinner with Fusion GPS's Glen Stimson, one of the architects of the Trump Dossier, the night immediatley before the meeting at Trump Tower and the night immediately after
All just coincidence, I'm sure
>>
>>277014
Need some tinfoil?

Seriously. Post proofs.
>>
>>277019
>>Whose entrance into the country was approved by Loretta Lynch
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341788-exclusive-doj-let-russian-lawyer-into-us-before-she-met-with-trump
>The Russian lawyer who penetrated Donald Trump’s inner circle was initially cleared into the United States by the Justice Department under “extraordinary circumstances” before she embarked on a lobbying campaign last year that ensnared the president’s eldest son, members of Congress, journalists and State Department officials, according to court and Justice Department documents and interviews.
>This revelation means it was the Obama Justice Department that enabled the newest and most intriguing figure in the Russia-Trump investigation to enter the country without a visa.

>who had dinner with Fusion GPS's Glen Stimson, one of the architects of the Trump Dossier, the night immediatley before the meeting at Trump Tower and the night immediately after
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
>Transcripts released Wednesday by the Senate Judiciary Committee say that Glenn Simpson, the co-founder of Fusion GPS, had dinner with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya both the day before and the day after she met with Donald Trump, Jr. at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016.
Link to transcripts: https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting
>>
>>277022
Furthermore, if Fusion GPS was working with the Russians accused of conspiring with Trump...
And, if said Russians had "information on Clinton" compiled by Fusion GPS, who was being paid by Clinton and the DNC to 'get dirt' on Trump...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
>The information that a Russian lawyer brought with her when she met Donald Trump Jr. in June 2016 stemmed from research conducted by Fusion GPS, the same firm that compiled the infamous Trump dossier, according to the lawyer and a source familiar with the matter.
>In an interview with NBC News, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya says she first received the supposedly incriminating information she brought to Trump Tower — describing alleged tax evasion and donations to Democrats — from Glenn Simpson, the Fusion GPS owner, who had been hired to conduct research in a New York federal court case.

...who's ACTUALLY colluding with Russia?
>>
>>277022
>>277023
About that... You might want to read the transcripts which Republicans tried to cover up.
https://www.vox.com/2018/1/9/16870106/simpson-testimony-transcript
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/01/10/the-misrepresentations-of-the-simpson-veselnitskaya-meetings/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/07/11/inside-the-link-between-the-russian-lawyer-who-met-donald-trump-jr-and-the-trump-dossier/?utm_term=.eb8bdbd4b4a3
The best case you right wingers can make is Simpson is a mercenary working for whoever pays him. Of course that harms your case since it means he's just conducting business and doesn't care who he works since he's not pushing a particular agenda.

Meanwhile the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians was clearly pushing an agenda.
>>
>>277029
>You might want to read the transcripts which Republicans tried to cover up.
You might want to try posting legitimate, accessible sources
Last 2 links are shite- one's a blog, the other is paywalled.

The Vox article mentions nothing about Veselnitskaya, the DOJ's approval for her entry, her meeting with Stimson, or the meeting at the tower. Nice try though.

>The best case you right wingers can make is Simpson is a mercenary working for whoever pays him.
Yes, that's what I said. Now you're catching on!
He was paid by (aka- working for) Clinton and the DNC, he was working wtih Veselnitskaya, he gave the alleged info on 'Clinton's secrets' compiled by Fusion GPS while under contract by Clinton and the DNC to Veselnitskaya, in order for her to present it at the meeting at Trump tower. That's entrapment.

>Of course that harms your case since it means he's just conducting business
With alleged Russian nationals, one of which who was an informant for the Russian government.
He gave this Russian government informant info on Clinton, and this informant then used this information on Clinton to try and bait the Trump campaign into some sort of deal.
>and doesn't care who he works since he's not pushing a particular agenda.
He's compiling information against a candidate to be used by the FBI to justify an investigation into alleged collusion, and also turned over bogus info about the candidate paying him to be used by a Russian informant he met with several times to bait the candidate he was compiling a dossier about into "colluding" with said Russian informant.
Again, entrapment. Also conspiracy.

>Meanwhile the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians
The Clinton campaign is currently the only party with an actual money and paper trail to Russians, especially as it applies to "information about alleged dirty secrets."
>>
>>277031
>>277023
>>277022
Hold on. You think that letting a Russian national with a valid passport and everything into the country is a greater crime than soliciting them for aid while campaigning for public office?!

Are you HIGH?!
>>
>>277031
>I don't like your sources so they're invalid
That's not how it works.

As for the rest of your argument, it amounts to just saying 'oh he hired a non government official to do research' Which, unlike what you're implying is not a crime. Meeting a hostile foreign power specifically to solicit aid, which Trump's team did, is however. And remember, Trump now admits that, so it's no longer alleged.

>Bogus info
Just what about the Dossier has been proven to be outright wrong? So far everything is in the camp of been proven or the jury is still out.

>>277032
He's a right winger, of course he's intellectually bankrupt.
>>
>>277032
>You think that letting a Russian national with a valid passport
But no valid visa
>http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341788-exclusive-doj-let-russian-lawyer-into-us-before-she-met-with-trump
Second paragraph
>This revelation means it was the Obama Justice Department that enabled the newest and most intriguing figure in the Russia-Trump investigation to enter the country without a visa

>greater crime than soliciting them for aid while campaigning for public office
No, I'm saying that meeting with them several times, and supplying them with information you compiled, information said Russian informant then used to attempt to get the campaign you're being paid to work against by another campaign to "take the bait" and solicit a deal for said info you provided, is a greater crime, as it is entrapment. Also conspiracy. And collusion, tbh.
>>
>>277037
Nice of you to ignore why she was allowed in the country without a Visa.
>The Moscow lawyer had been turned down for a visa to enter the U.S. lawfully but then was granted special immigration parole by then-Attorney General Loretta Lynch for the limited purpose of helping a company owned by Russian businessman Denis Katsyv, her client, defend itself against a Justice Department asset forfeiture case in federal court in New York City.
She was representing a Russian client that was being prosecuted by the US government.

It must REALLY suck to create a house of a lies, only to have the article you cite undermine you. Nothing there was illegal. Her acting as an agent of Putin and conspiring with Trump's team. Very Illegal. Treasonous even.
>>
>>277036
>That's not how it works.
One is a blog. According to board rules
>Blogs and editorial articles are not acceptable news sources.
The other is pay-walled.

The Pox article, again, mentions nothing about Veselnitskaya, the DOJ's approval for her entry, her meeting with Stimson, or the meeting at the tower.

>As for the rest of your argument, it amounts to just saying 'oh he hired a non government official to do research'
No, you're intentionally misrepresenting my argument. let me lay it out for you again:

-The DOJ allowed a Russian-government informant into the country without a valid visa
-Fusion GPS and Stimson were under contract by Clinton and the DNC to also compile a dossier on Trump about his alleged collusion with Russia
-At the same time, Stimson met with this Russian informant with no valid visa, immediately before the tower meeting, supplied them with "Clinton dirt" also compiled by Fusion GPS, and met with them again immediately after the meeting
-This information was then used to try and bait the Trump campaign into making a deal for it during said tower meeting
-Said tower meeting was then used as evidence for the investigation into possible collusion
-Ergo, Stimson, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, conspired to collude with a Russian informant by handing over bogus "political dirt" on Clinton that was then used to entrap the Trump campaign

>>277036
>He's a right winger, of course he's intellectually bankrupt.
Are you talking to yourself? And you accuse me of being high? F
>>
>>277039
>Nice of you to ignore why she was allowed in the country without a Visa.
>She was representing a Russian client that was being prosecuted by the US government.
I wasn't ignoring that at all, I'm glad the DOJ under the direction of Loretta Lynch allowed a Russian informant/lawyer into the country to defend her client. Due process is important

>It must REALLY suck to create a house of a lies
You have not disproven a thing I've said, you've either misrepresented or outright ignored the bulk of my argument.

>Nothing there was illegal.
I didn't say her being allowed into the country without a valid Visa was illegal. I just said it happened, /while/ she was acting as an informant for the Russian government.

>Her acting as an agent of Putin and conspiring with Trump's team.
Again, she conspired with Stimson, met with him before and immediately after the meeting, and used bogus information compiled by Stimson's Fusion GPS to "conspire" with the Trump campaign.

>Very Illegal. Treasonous even.
I agree. Colluding with a foreign intelligence agent in a conspiracy to attempt to set up the rival of the political candidate you're being paid by, while also compiling a bogus document to help justify an FBI "insurance policy" investigation into the candidate opposed to the one you are, again, being paid by, IS very illegal. Treasonous even.
>>
>>277037
>>277039
>>277039
He is of course going to dismiss that as a cover based on this paragraph:
>No, I'm saying that meeting with them several times, and supplying them with information you compiled, information said Russian informant then used to attempt to get the campaign you're being paid to work against by another campaign to "take the bait" and solicit a deal for said info you provided, is a greater crime, as it is entrapment. Also conspiracy. And collusion, tbh.

As far as I can tell, because my GOD is that a run-on sentence, she was paid by the Clinton campaign [citation needed] to offer information compiled by the Clinton campaign [citation needed] to the Trump campaign in hopes of entrapping them [citation needed] and that entrapment Is a greater crime than conspiracy, soliciting a foreign government etc [citation needed].

Of course that wouldn't be entrapment at all, since if she wasn't a foreign agent (if paid by the clintons) and wasn't offering illegally acquired information, the Trump campaign would be under no legal recourse of the whole thing we're made public. In fact it would be worse for Hillary, becayse she would be on the rope for trying to frame Trump. And of course all this would have come out over a year ago because Trump, if he or his staff saw through the ruse,would have reported it to incriminate Hillary.

Need more tinfoil?
>>
>>277040
>Intentionally misrepresenting the rules of posting an thread and applying it to evidence'
More proof you can't debate in good faith. Also if you can't bypass the paywall, you're just incompetent.


>-The DOJ allowed a Russian-government informant into the country without a valid visa
Because she was the lawyer representing a client in US court.
>-Fusion GPS and Stimson were under contract by Clinton and the DNC to also compile a dossier on Trump about his alleged collusion with Russia
No longer alleged, Trump confessed it happened.
>-At the same time, Stimson met with this Russian informant with no valid visa, immediately before the tower meeting, supplied them with "Clinton dirt" also compiled by Fusion GPS, and met with them again immediately after the meeting
Irrelevant information that is trying to greatly imply the Obama DoJ was intentionally planning this. Also Simpson wouldn't know of Veselnitskaya's status.
>-This information was then used to try and bait the Trump campaign into making a deal for it during said tower meeting
We don't know if information or plans were exchanged due to the fact the only current public information we have out is from know liars like Trump and Donald Jr who have lied multiple times regarding the meeting.
>-Said tower meeting was then used as evidence for the investigation into possible collusion
As it should because it was a crime
>-Ergo, Stimson, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, conspired to collude with a Russian informant by handing over bogus "political dirt" on Clinton that was then used to entrap the Trump campaign
Association fallacy and wild conjecture. Also it doesn't exonerate Trump because they went into the meeting knowing it was a crime.
You're trying to imply this was entrapment. that's just pathetic and Fox News tier of damage control.
>>
>>277047
>He is of course going to dismiss that as a cover based on this paragraph:
Are you talking to yourself again?
I haven't dismissed it. I have 100% acknowledged that the DOJ admitted a Russian lawyer, who was also an information for the Russian government, into the country without a valid visa to represent her client.

>she was paid by the Clinton campaign [citation needed]
You're misrepresenting my argument. Nowhere did I say that Veselnitskaya was paid by the Clinton campaign, I said Stimson and Fusion GPS were.
>to offer information compiled by the Clinton campaign
Again, misrepresentation. Fusion GPS compiled the data, not the Clinton campaign. They just paid Fusion GPS is all!
>to the Trump campaign in hopes of entrapping them [citation needed]
Why else would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton, hand over said data to a Russian national? Why would Stimson meet with her before and after the tower meeting where the information his company compiled was used to try and secure a "deal

>entrapment Is a greater crime than conspiracy
Conspiracy to commit entrapment, while colluding with a foreign intelligence agent* is a greater crime. Especially when there's no other evidence of the campaign you attempted to entrap "colluding".

>since if she wasn't a foreign agent (if paid by the clintons)
She was a foreign agent, but again, was not /paid/ by the Clintons. Can you please stop derailing the argument by intentionally misrepresenting it?

>And of course all this would have come out over a year ago because Trump, if he or his staff saw through the ruse,would have reported it to incriminate Hillary.
They probably didn't see through the ruse until after the fact, and likely didn't have evidence tying Veselnitskaya to Fusion GPS "over a year ago". Now however, it's all public knowledge

>In fact it would be worse for Hillary, becayse she would be on the rope for trying to frame Trump
You're absolutely correct. Now you're getting it :)
>>
>>277047
>Need more tinfoil?
You've got plenty for the whole board.

Straw as well, given you keep inventing new arguments to strike down instead of addressing arguments actually being made.

Why so panicky?
>>
>>277041
You were ignoring it, otherwise you'd have mentioned it, and are still ignoring it. We've already proven you aren't arguing in good faith and making up accusations without citations and creating implying implications about Veselnitskaya entering America without a Visa since your entire narrative is this was an entrapment operation to get Trump based on your list of 'facts'.
>Again, she conspired with Stimson, met with him before and immediately after the meeting, and used bogus information compiled by Stimson's Fusion GPS to "conspire" with the Trump campaign.
All accusations no proof on that's what happened.

The only criminals here are the Trump team for taking the meeting where they are at least guilty of conspiracy to defraud the United States, violating federal election laws, and now obstruction of justice. I'm glad you agree we should prosecute people like Trump for breaking the law as not even the president is above the law.

>talking to yourself
Apparently more than one person calling out your lies is a foreign concept to you.
>>
>Stimson
Why can't you get Simpson's name right? Is your Russian translator broken?
>>
>>277053
>>277054
He thinks we're samefags. As if there could only be one person here siezed by that horrible condition called sensibility.
>>
>>277050
>More proof you can't debate in good faith.
>Blogs and editorial articles are not acceptable news sources.
Rules is rules. I don't make them.

>Also if you can't bypass the paywall, you're just incompetent.
I can, I'm just not a thief. Also it's not my job to make your sources accessible without theft.

>Because she was the lawyer representing a client in US court.
Yes, she was also an informant for the Russian Government.
>No longer alleged, Trump confessed it happened.
And Stimson confessed to meeting with a Russian informant before and after the meeting. The informant debates when the meetings took place, but doesn't deny meeting with Stimson.
>Irrelevant information that is trying to greatly imply the Obama DoJ was intentionally planning this
Entirely relevant, and not implying anything other than Stimson met with an informant and gave her information Fusion GPS compiled about Clinton. Stop misrepresenting the argument.
>Also Simpson wouldn't know of Veselnitskaya's status.
Doesn't matter. He still knowingly gave her information, information that was then used during the meeting. Why give her the info?
>We don't know if information or plans were exchanged
All signs point to that not actually happening, since no deal was actually made.
>liars like Trump and Donald Jr who have lied multiple times regarding the meeting.
So how do we know Trump's "confession" you mentioned, is valid?
>As it should because it was a crime
A crime set into motion by Stimson and Fusion GPS while under contract by Clinton and the DNC, that would not have occurred otherwise. Entrapment. Conspiracy. Collusion.

>Association fallacy and wild conjecture.
Fallacy fallacy and highly probably given the sequence of events. Again, why else would Stimson give the Russian the information? Why meet with her before and after the tower meeting?
>>
>>277050
>Also it doesn't exonerate Trump because they went into the meeting knowing it was a crime.
It does if the crime wouldn't have happened otherwise, without the attempt at entrapment. That's how entrapment works.

>You're trying to imply this was entrapment.
You come to that conclusion by yourself?

>that's just pathetic and Fox News tier of damage control.
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Stimson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why do you refuse to attempt to answer these questions, instead choosing to misrepresent my argument?
>>
>>277056
So by admitting she was an informant for the Russian government and that trumps campaign met with her to get dirt on Hillary, you are admitting that trumps campaign violated USC 52 30121, soliciting aid from a foreign government.

I'd like proof of the rest of the stuff with Hillary and all that, but thank you for that much.
>>
>>277056
>Excuses
>Excuses

It's not worth going through your post point by point because it boils down to a conspiracy theory that Trump conspiring with the Russian was a sting operation set up by Fusion GPS when all you've given are fallacies and wild conjecture. Along with now incorrectly applying the fallacy fallacy. The fact you can't actually provide proof of your wild accusations also doesn't help your case.

The facts are simple.
Trump's Campaign conspired with the Russians in their attack on America and even if the broken clock is right and nothing came out if it, Trump's campaing still broke the laws 923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, and 11 CFR 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510). Because even attempting to solicit is a crime.
>>
>>277053
>You were ignoring it, otherwise you'd have mentioned it, and are still ignoring it
I'm not ignoring it. This is the third time now I've 100% acknowledged that the DOJ admitted a Russian lawyer, who was also an information for the Russian government, into the country without a valid visa to represent her client.

>We've already proven you aren't arguing in good faith and making up accusations
Like your accusation that Veselnitskaya was paid by the Clinton campaign? Because I explained how that was you intentionally misrepresenting my argument.
>without citations
I've provided several citations, especially as it pertains to Simpson meeting with Veselnitskaya

>All accusations no proof on that's what happened.
Once again
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting

>>277054
>Why can't you get Simpson's name right? Is your Russian translator broken?
It's called a typo, my angry friend. You knew who I was talking about, yes?
>>
>>277058
>So by admitting she was an informant for the Russian government and that trumps campaign met with her to get dirt on Hillary
Dirt supplied by Fusion GPS who was under contract by Hillary and the DNC.
Also, if Simpson allegedly didn't know she was a Russian informant, how do you know Trump supposedly did?

>you are admitting that trumps campaign violated USC 52 30121, soliciting aid from a foreign government
No, I'm stating that Trump's campaign was entrapped into attempting to violate USC 52 30121, by Fusion GPS and their clients, Hillary and the DNC. Moreover, GPS and Hillary/DNC knew she was a foreign agent, that would make them guilty of violating USC 52 30121, as well as committing conspiracy to entrap another party into committing the crime and blaming said crime on them.

Again, why wont you attempt to answer these questions:
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Stimson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why do you refuse to attempt to answer these questions, instead choosing to misrepresent my argument?
>>
>>277059
>It's not worth going through your post point by point
You've already been trying to do that, you just chooce to misrepresent my argument. I've called you out on this already.

Once again:
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national, regardless of whether or not they knew she was an informant?
Why did Stimson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why do you refuse to attempt to answer these questions, instead choosing to misrepresent my argument?

>Trump's campaing still broke the laws 923. 18 U.S.C. § 371—Conspiracy to Defraud the United States, and 11 CFR 110.20 - Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510)
Arguably, Fusion GPS at the behest of Clinton and the DNC broke these laws (by handing over the information), in an attempt to entrap the Trump campaign into breaking the laws (conspiracy).
One of the legal ramifications of entrapment, however, is that without any solid proof there was any attempt to commit the crime by the Trump campaign WITHOUT Fusion GPS's involvement, then there's no actual crime by the Trump campaign, who was being defrauded by parties conspiring to get them to try and violate laws they had already violated.

Once again:
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national, regardless of whether or not they knew she was an informant?
Why did Stimson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why do you refuse to attempt to answer these questions, instead choosing to misrepresent my argument?
>>
>>277061
correction
>if GPS and Hillary/DNC knew she was a foreign agent*, that would make them guilty of violating USC 52 30121, as well as committing conspiracy to entrap another party into committing the crime and blaming said crime on them.
>>
>>277062
>is that without any solid proof there was any attempt to commit the crime by the Trump campaign WITHOUT Fusion GPS's involvement,
I forgot to add- the creation of 'unverified and salacious' Trump dossier would support the the argument that Simpson and Fusion GPS knew this and were attempting to entrap trump while under contract from hillary and the DNC, suggesting the Dossier was an attempt at making it seem like there was more relationships between Trump and Russia. If this is the case, that would also mean they were attempting to defraud the FBI by providing false evidence in order to lend credence to their attempt at framing the Trump campaign for violating laws they had already knowingly violated by handing the information over.
>>
>>277061
>Dirt supplied by Fusion GPS who was under contract by Hillary and the DNC.
Does not make it any less of a crime. Guliani is an idiot, soliciting does not require you receive anything of value...or indeed, anything at all.
>>
>>277060
>>277061
>>277062
>>277064
>>277067
You still haven't shown proof or evidence that this was entrapment, just one giant association fallacy.

Or the fact that it does not excuse that the Trump campaign conspired to defraud the United States and anyone who follows the law would have immediately contacted the FBI.
>>
>>277060
>It's called a typo
And yet you keep doing it, really makes you think.
>>
It looks like this jutisu to say it was Clinton who conspired is the latest failed attempt at damage control.
http://time.com/5361925/donald-trump-collusion-manafort-giuliani-mueller-russia/

Even Trump's lapdog in Congress admits it's criminal behavior.
https://thinkprogress.org/devin-nunes-leaked-audio-maddow-collusion-crime-trump-3b137b51a8c9/
>>
>>277078
I was wondering when someone would post that tape. There's some warning signs in it that the effort to impeach Rosensetein is more than a fringe effort. Nothing concrete, but worrisome.
>>
>>277080
All the teabaggers did was jump the gun. It's the Republican's plan to fire Rosensetein to cover for Trump.

Although Trump might just cut out the middle man and obstruct justice himself by trying to fire Mueller himself.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/lindsey-graham-trump-brought-ending-russia-probe-about-20-times-n898501
>>
>>277071
>Does not make it any less of a crime.
It does, that's how entrapment works.
>Giuliani is an idiot
Giuliani has nothing to do with what I've said. Stop misrepresenting my argument please.

>>277072
>You still haven't shown proof or evidence that this was entrapment
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson* meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
Why do you refuse to attempt to answer these questions, instead choosing to misrepresent my argument?

>>277073
I copy and pasted an old typo and forgot to change it. Shoot me, commissar, I confess.
Really jogs your noggin

>>277078
>It looks like this jutisu to say it was Clinton who conspired is the latest failed attempt at damage control.
It's not damage control if they're valid questions. Why are you so afraid to try and answer them?
>Even Trump's lapdog in Congress admits it's criminal behavior.
Again, if it's entrapment, The Trump campaign is the victim, not the perpetrator of the crime, especially if said meeting would not have otherwise happened without coordination with Fusion GPS, who we already know provided the information to be 'exchanged' during the meeting.

Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson* meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
??????????????????
>>
>>277081
Precipitating a nixon-tier constitutional crisis, if not more. They won't do shit until after the election, and by then it'll be too late.
>>
>>277082
So 'tricking' someone into committing am illegal act makes the act not illegal?

Keep in mind they didn't give any details on what information would be had for the Trump campaign, and the Trump campaign still went in on it, even knowing that this was a Russian citizen (and in all likelihood a Russian government representative) they'd be talking to.

Assuming the entrapment narrative is true, and that's a MASSIVE stretch, the Trump campaign still a) committed a crime, and b) acted in tremendously bad faith to do so.

You know you're desperate when you have to BEGIN with the assumption that the guy you're defending tried to break the law.
>>
>>277082
All you're doing is begging the question, posing conjecture as fact while not providing actual evidence. It's not entrapment just based on the fact they shouldn't have taken the meeting in the first place.

if you have a friend go 'Hey wanna meet this prostitute and pay to have sex with her?', first you go 'I'm not Donald Trump' second you say no because what he's suggestion you do is a crime.

Trump and his family thought they're above the law. That's not entrapment, that's arrogance, the fact he now admits his family broke the law shows that he either doesn't understand the law, or thinks like in his past life, the law doesn't apply to him.

>>277083
Republicans have already shown their hands that they would rather side with Russia over American interests.
>>
>>277085
Don't they need 2/3rds to impeach anyway? There's no way in he'll they're getting that in both houses and impeaching Rosenstein is a hard sell to their OWN party, let alone the democrats.

And Trump doing it himself when an impeachment vote fails would not be 'picking up the slack', it'd be executive overreach par excellence.
>>
>>277084
>So 'tricking' someone into committing am illegal act makes the act not illegal?
Yes, especially when the Mens Rea to commit the crime didn't exist without you tricking them into trying to do it. Read up on how entrapment works.

>Keep in mind they didn't give any details on what information would be had for the Trump campaign
Simpson knows, given his company gave the information to the Russians in the first place

>Assuming the entrapment narrative is true
>The Trump campaign still a) committed a crime, and b) acted in tremendously bad faith to do so
Not if it's entrapment, that's how entrapment works. Read up on how entrapment works, please.

>You know you're desperate when you have to BEGIN with the assumption that the guy you're defending tried to break the law.
You know you're desperate when you still can't answer these questions:
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson* meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?

>>277085
>All you're doing is begging the question
No, I'm outright asking questions you refuse to answer

>posing conjecture as fact while not providing actual evidence
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting
3rd time I've posted these btw
>>
>>277085
>It's not entrapment just based on the fact they shouldn't have taken the meeting in the first place.
No it's entrapment based on the meeting being part of an conspiracy between Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton, and this Russian informant, to bait the Trump campaign with info supplied by Fusion GPS. Especially since the current narrative is that the Russians, while working with Fusion GPS, reached out to the Trump campaig to set up the meeting.

>if you have a friend go 'Hey wanna meet this prostitute and pay to have sex with her?', first you go 'I'm not Donald Trump' second you say no because what he's suggestion you do is a crime.
Now who's translator is breaking down, Ivan?

If you buy drugs and get caught, that's on you.
If someone gives a dealer drugs to sell to you specifically, and sends you messages enticing you to buy the drugs from said dealer, drugs you otherwise would not have bought froma dealer you otherwise had no contact with, that's entrapment.
Trying to fabricate false contacts to said dealer to get around this is fabrication of evidence, and working with said dealer to bust you, is conspiracy.

Also, I'll post them again for fun:
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
>>
>>277088
>Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Assuming this happened as you say. I'll speculate when you prove it, not provide associative speculation.
>Why did Simpson* meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why do we need to care. Meeting with a foreign government rep isn't a crime...unless you're running for office or representing someone doing so.
>Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
Assuming that happened as you say. See above.
>>
>>277088
>>277090
And you can keep posting it, it doesn't make it right.
All you've been doing is begging the question, and the 'evidence' you're providing is part of that. All you have is 'Simpson met with Veselnitskaya' everything past that is conjecture with no evidence to back it up. Meanwhile we do know that Donald Jr. met with Veselnitskaya for the specific purpose to get dirt on Clinton, which is a Federal crime. That is not entrapment because they were told ahead of time what the meeting was about and agreed to it. The only way your entrapment argument works is if Veselnitskaya was working for the US government, which you made clear multiple times, she's not.

So your entire line of inquary is moot and only exists to muddy water to defend the crimes that Trump's campaign committed.
>>
>>277091
>Assuming this happened as you say. I'll speculate when you prove it, not provide associative speculation.
Not as I say, as several sources say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting

>Why do we need to care.
Because meeting the nights immediately before and after a meeting based on information you supplied, where a crime supposedly occurred, is suspicious.

>Meeting with a foreign government rep isn't a crime, unless you're running for office or representing someone doing so
So we agree that Fusion GPS and Simpson committed a crime, given that they were being contracted out by Clinton and the DNC while turning over information to said foreign government rep. Excellent progress!

>Assuming that happened as you say
Again, not as I say, as several sources say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting
>>
>>277100
>suspicious
Literally all you have. Speculation upon speculation does not overshadow an obvious crime.
>>
>>277100
>Fusion GPS and Simpson committed a crime, given that they were being contracted out by Clinton and the DNC while turning over information to said foreign government rep
You fucking dumbass. Was Glen Simpson running for Congress? Was he working for the campaign? And no, being contracted doesn't count.
>>
>>277100
Maybe you should read those articles you cling to.
>In a statement to NBC News, a lawyer for Fusion GPS said Fusion's work on the dossier was totally separate from its work on the Prevezon case. Levy said the firm was unaware of the Trump Tower meeting when it happened.
>Simpson had business dealings with Veselnitskaya, and that included a court hearing in New York on June 9, 2016. But Simpson said he did not know about the June 9, 2016 meeting at Trump Tower. He said the subject never came up at either of the dinners he had with Veselnitskaya on June 8 or 10, 2016; and he was “stunned” to learn about it later in The New York Times.


Also, I'm looking into where this 'entrapment' storyline came from and it's a variation of what Rush Limbaugh said. So we're debating a conspiracy theory dittohead.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/05/14/rush_limbaugh_fbis_russia_investigation_was_a_setup_from_the_start.html
>>
>>277107
>dittohead
That's too nice. Did autocorrect get you?
>>
>>277110
No autocorrect, I'm remaining respectful and dittohead are what Rush Limbaugh listeners are called.
>>
>>277092
>And you can keep posting it, it doesn't make it right.
Then prove how it isn't right, instead of avoiding and misrepresenting what I said, bitch
>All you've been doing is begging the question
Asking questions =/= begging the question
>and the 'evidence' you're providing is part of that
How is the evidence I've provided invalid? How does it not support my argument?

>All you have is 'Simpson met with Veselnitskaya'
Immediately before and immediately after the Trump meeting, and gave her the information used in the meeting, please stop misrepresenting and omitting whole parts of my argument
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526

> Meanwhile we do know that Donald Jr. met with Veselnitskaya for the specific purpose to get dirt on Clinton, which is a Federal crime.
Information supplied by Fusion GPS, who worked with the Russians, Russians who reached out first to attempt to set up the meeting. This is textbook entrapment and conspiracy. I've laid how how this is so several times.

>The only way your entrapment argument works is if Veselnitskaya was working for the US government
Not true- it's also entrapment if Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS, who was working for an election campaign, who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier) and attempting to bait them into meeting with a foreign agent working with a company they were paying to collect and disseminate the information used in the meeting set up to entrap their rival campaign.

>if Veselnitskaya was working for the US government, which you made clear multiple times, she's not.
No, I just made it clear that the Obama DOJ at the direction of Loretta Lynch, allowed Veselnitskaya, a Russian informant, into the country with an invalid visa to represent her client.
>>
>>277113
>Asking questions =/= begging the question
Asking questions is EXACTLY what begging the question is.
>>
>>277113
>Not true- it's also entrapment if Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS, who was working for an election campaign, who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier) and attempting to bait them into meeting with a foreign agent working with a company they were paying to collect and disseminate the information used in the meeting set up to entrap their rival campaign.
Citation needed x3
>>
>>277104
>Was he working for the campaign? And no, being contracted doesn't count.
Being contracted absolutely counts, since he was working for the campaign, and being paid both by the campaign and the DNC.
Sounding real desperate here bub.

>>277107
>Maybe you should read those articles you cling to.
I have, nothing you quoted disproves anything I've said.
>a lawyer for Fusion GPS said Fusion's work on the dossier was totally separate from its work on the Prevezon case
I didn't say they were connected. I said the information the Russians wanted to make a deal with in the tower meeting was supplied by Fusion GPS. I did not say it had any relation to the Prevezon case.
It seems I must continually call you out for intentionally misrepresenting my argument.
Reeeeeaaaaaaal desperate.

>He said the subject never came up at either of the dinners he had with Veselnitskaya on June 8 or 10, 2016
So he doesn't deny meeting with her over diner, diners which just so happened to occur the nights immediately before and after the tower meeting, which he claims he didn't know about.
A meeting based around information that, again, he and his company, Fusion GPS, supplied to said Russian, which said Russian, again, used during the meeting to try and make a deal.
Surely, these are all just happy, wacky coincidences! XD

>I'm looking into where this 'entrapment' storyline came from and it's a variation of what Rush Limbaugh said
That's cute, because I literally came up with this theory myself after reading the above links, and pitched it into this thread to see how it would be addressed.
I did not expect the amount of desperate misrepresentation I got, which suggests you're afraid to outwardly address my argument without compete and total intellectual dishonesty and outright lying.
Interesting.
>>
>>277118
>Asking questions is EXACTLY what begging the question is.
Wrong
>Begging the question, sometimes known by its Latin name petitio principii (meaning assuming the initial point), is a logical fallacy in which the writer or speaker assumes the statement under examination to be true
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
These are not begging the question, they're questions asking why the events described would happen the way they did.
Maybe /you/ feel like they're begging the question because you feel they necessarily suggest a certain outcome, but I am completely open to a reasonable explanation that suggests otherwise. one you have yet to provide.
>>
>>277119
>Citation needed x3
Here's all 3, posted for the... 4th time now.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting

Just so you know, continuously asking for the same sources and pretending not to see them neither invalidates them or the instances they've been posted.
>>
>>277125
I've looked at those. You apparently have not. Where in there does it say that Glen Simpson gave information provided by the Clinton campaign to a Russian government rep for the purpose of entrapping Trump?

It doesn't, because ALL of that is baseless, nonsensical speculation.

On the other hand, to bring this thread back on topic, Trump admitted his campaign met with foreign government rep to get dirt on Clinton...all THAT is absolutely true.
>>
>>277113
>>277120
Calm down, no need to get testy just because people aren't falling for your bait and refuse to fall for your begging the question tacitcs. The 'evidence' you've providing doesn't back up the claims you made and you continue to just flaunt conjecture of a grand conspiracy.
In fact, your articles do nothing to substantiate the big claims you made.
>Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS >who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier) >attempting to bait them into meeting with a foreign agent working with a company they were paying to collect and disseminate the information used in the meeting set up to entrap their rival campaign.
All the articles you posted say is Simpson and Veselnitskaya met and Simpson was not aware of the Trump Tower meeting and so nothing has come out to refute this. Unlike Trump's side that have been changing their story over the past year as they get caught in more and more lies. Furthermore you're also again attempting to implying that Obama's DoJ was aware of this entire plan when the reason she was allowed into the country was for a legitimate purpose. It's up to you to answer the question you beg, not us. And also give us exact citation for your claims since spamming links doesn't fly.

All you have is conjecture and baseless speculation. Meanwhile Trump admitted that his son conspired to defraud the United States, broken Federal election laws and Trump himself is obstructing justice.
>>
>>277120
>That's cute, because I literally came up with this theory myself
Doubt.jpeg
>>
>>277144
Checkt n rekt

300 posts and still going!
>>
>>277135
>Where in there does it say that Glen Simpson gave information provided by the Clinton campaign to a Russian government rep for the purpose of entrapping Trump?
As I have stated several times, it states Simpson's company, Fusion GPS, compiled the "Clinton dirt". Said information was then turned over to the Russian that Simpson had dinner with immediately before and after the meeting. The "purpose f entrapment" was, as I have also stated just as many times, my commentary.

>It doesn't, because ALL of that is baseless, nonsensical speculation.
It's not nonsensical, you just don't like what the implication suggests.

Again,
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?

>Trump admitted his campaign met with foreign government rep to get dirt on Clinton...all THAT is absolutely true.
I thought Trump was a liar, and all of his tweets were the unverified rambling nonsense of a liar?
>>
>>277144
>Calm down, no need to get testy just because people aren't falling for your bait
I'm not getting testy and I'm not posting bait. I've calmly explained and reexplained my argument several times, and have specifically stated where you and others (lol) were attempting to intentionally misrepresent what I said.

>The 'evidence' you've providing doesn't back up the claims you made
How so?

>you continue to just flaunt conjecture of a grand conspiracy
>In fact, your articles do nothing to substantiate the big claims you made.
Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Why did Simpson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?

>Simpson was not aware of the Trump Tower meeting and so nothing has come out to refute this
So it's entirely just coincidental that he met with her immediately before and immediately after the meeting, a meeting where said information compiled via Fusion GPS was used, and was gavin it to her, a Russian national. That's what you're claiming?
>>
>>277144
>Furthermore you're also again attempting to implying that Obama's DoJ was aware of this entire plan when the reason she was allowed into the country was for a legitimate purpose.
I'm not disputing that. I made it 100% clear that I acknowledge that the Obama DOJ, at the direction of Loretta Lynch, allowed Veselnitskaya, a Russian informant, into the country with an invalid visa to represent her client.

>It's up to you to answer the question you beg, not us
I'm not begging the question. I'm asking legitimate questions, and getting a mountain of excuses, dodges, and misrepresentations instead of answers.

>And also give us exact citation for your claims since spamming links doesn't fly.
I'm not spamming links, I have posted the same links, and posted direct quotes from said links. I've held up my end, you've chosen to misrepresent or outright ignore it.

I cannot control your deliberately obfuscative actions or refusal to accurately acknowledge what I've said. I can only, I suppose, repeat myself infinitely until you decide to stop being intellectual dishonest. Or you just resort to calling me a Russian and ignoring my posts entirely, a point at which I would estimate we're just about to arrive at.

>>277162
>Doubt.jpeg
That's your problem my dude.
>>
>>277182
>>277184
The 'evidence' you've providing doesn't back up the claims you made and you continue to just flaunt conjecture of a grand conspiracy.
In fact, your articles do nothing to substantiate the big claims you made.
>Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS
>who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier)
>attempting to bait them into meeting with a foreign agent working with a company they were paying to collect and disseminate the information used in the meeting set up to entrap their rival campaign.
What are the exact points in the articles you cite that prove your accusations you make?
>>
>>277182
You have posted this crap 11 times.
>Why would Fusion GPS, under contract by Clinton and the DNC, hand over information it compiled on Clinton, to a Russian national?
Because his firm was hired to research that information for a court case in which she was representing her parent company, you dumb fuck. It's in the article!
>Why did Simpson meet with said Russian national, regardless if he knew she was an informant, immediately before and after the meeting?
How do you know he knew that? And again, he was working a tax evasion case in which she was a legitimate party. You dumb fuck.
>Why would said Russian national then attempt to use this info on Clinton they got from Fusion GPS, who was working for Clinton, to try and make a deal with Trump?
Who says that? Besides you, you DUMB FUCK. This question is based on untrue asusmptions, namely that the Clinton dirt (if it existed) came from Fusion.

It didn't, because the Clinton campaign wasn't a party in that lawsuit - it was their donors, the Ziff brothers. Meaning Fusion couldn't have provided them any dirt on Clinton (which if acquired form fusion MIGHT be legally obtained depending on court proceedings at the time), which makes the entire scenario another layer of impossible beyond the ridiculous level it already is.

And that STILL doesn't change the fact that Trump's campaign solicited aid from agents of a foreign government!
>>
>>277187
>The 'evidence' you've providing doesn't back up the claims you made
I'm amazed you even know what my claims were, given you keep misrepresenting them. On purpose.

>flaunt conjecture of a grand conspiracy
I wasn't aware this board was a no conjecture zone, and that we were only allowed to regurgitate official positions

>In fact, your articles do nothing to substantiate the big claims you made.
>>Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS
Then why did Fusion GPS give her the information they had compiled on Clinton?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
>>who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier)
Even Comey admits the dossier was "salacious and unverified". Fabricating phony evidence in a dossier about someone, is attempting to defraud said someone, yes?
>What are the exact points in the articles you cite that prove your accusations you make?
Simpson and Veselnitskaya met before and immediately after the tower meeting:
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/fusion-gps-glenn-simpson-dined-russian-lawyer-after-her-meeting-trump-tower
https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/press/releases/materials-from-inquiry-into-circumstances-surrounding-trump-tower-meeting
Simpson's company, Fusion GPS, supplied her with the "Clinton dirt" allegedly discussed during the tower meeting
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-dossier-firm-also-supplied-info-used-meeting-russians-trump-n819526
Again, it's possible that this is all just "coincidence". It's also highly unlikely.
>>
>>277191
>Then why did Fusion GPS give her the information they had compiled on Clinton's donors?

FTFY, and because the Russians had accused them of evading taxes and there was a court case.

READ
YOUR DAMN
LINKS
>>
>>277192
>>277190
As a corollary to this, the Ziff brothers also donated to republicans.
>>
>>277164
This will likely be the third /news/ thread to actually reach the bump limit. Funny enough the first one was this exact story back when it first broke
>>
>>276996
Because the law isn't being applied equally. It's politically motivated.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-hanson-mueller-mccabe-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-james-comey-huma-abedin-investigation-0430-story.html
There's one set of rules for Democrats, another for Republicans. That's why we bring up the other things. Republicans are tired of Democrats getting away with everything, so they care less about what Republicans do, because they perceive the otherside as having gotten away with shit for so long, that turnabout is fairplay.
Goes back to the media too, and how they treat Obama vs Trump.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pew-trump-media-three-times-more-negative-than-for-obama-just-5-percent-positive
They are heavily biased in favor of democrats.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/mike-ciandella/2017/11/10/media-double-standard-ethics-coverage-moore-near-silence-menendez
They describe Obama as scandal free, because they didn't cover his scandals. His Russia collusion, fast and furious, the IRS targeting conservatives.
>>
>>277203
>complains about heavy bias
>posts links from MRC's newsbusters and washingtonexaminer.com
Oh how I'm laughing.
>>
>>277204
Ironic.palpatine.jpg
>>
>>277204
I can't tell if you are being a strawman or not. My post was about turn about being fairplay, and you're complaining about my post being from newsbusters and a washington examiner article that links to a pew poll.
Are you intentionally ignoring the intent of my message, hoping to convince people that I am wrong because of the URLs of the websites I linked, ignoring both the substance of my argument, and the substance of the information presented?
>>
>>277207
First, I disagree that the tit for tat strategy is valid in a two party system, because it encouraged division and the system is built on cooperation. Second, he was pointing out if THAT is your source, your supposed grievances for which turnabout should be fair play may not be anywhere near on the level that you think. After all, the people reporting them to you have something to sell.
>>
>>277207
Here's a clue about who you are getting your factchecking from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III
>>
>>277216
>>277218
What website would you have preferred I used, to show the bias of the mainstream media?
I don't see many articles on CNN, reporting on how CNN doesn't report on the Menendez trial, and focuses on the Moore controversy.
>>
>>277222
allgeneralizationsarefalse.com maintains the Media Bias chart, which is algorithmic based on language and story selection. Also tracks honesty, creating a sort of bell curve (since ideology and reality don't mix).

mediabiasfactcheck.com doesn't do a chart but you can rate any source you like on there. it's like a bias tracker version of wikipedia.
>>
>>277191
>I wasn't aware this board was a no conjecture zone, and that we were only allowed to regurgitate official positions
Strawman, also the problem with your conjecture is you're trying to force people to draw your conclusion when there are insufficient facts. All you currently have is 'really makes you think...'

Another major problem pointed out is your desperate attempt to discredit the Trump Dossier which hasn't be done. The best you have is Trump saying it's fake and some Russians trying to sue for libel (Hmmm, why would the Russians and Republicans want to defame Steele and his work so badly?) What's even more comical is the fact that your quote 'Salacious and unverified' doesn't mean it's fabricated or phony. Get a dictionary.

You also are skirting the question of substantiating the three claims you made.
>Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS
>who was attempting to defraud their opponent by fabricating evidence (trump dossier)
>attempting to bait them into meeting with a foreign agent working with a company they were paying to collect and disseminate the information used in the meeting set up to entrap their rival campaign.
What you're doing is just presenting is conjecture and not fact. Or worse, creating an association fallacy where just because Simpson and Veselinitskaya met, you're trying to create the impression she worked for Fusion GPS, when there is zero proof of your claim. Hence why everyone is laughing you off as a conspiracy theorist or some /pol/ppet who's testing a new propaganda line.

>>277195
To be fair, it's the random /pol/ppets who jump into this thread to play damage control from Trump and then proceed to get slapped down by /news/men, who follow the facts, not ideology that keep fueling this topic. it reminds me of the good old days of /n/ and /new/ before they turned into stromfront and moot nuked them.
>>
>>277243
Newfag here, that sounds like an interesting event. What exactly happened?
>>
>>277424
>'This was a meeting to get information on an opponent'
>Approaching a hostile foreign power for aid.
That's called conspiracy to defraud the United States and a violation of Campaign Finance law.
>>
>>277280
Not much to say, before /pol/ existed, we had /news/ by another name, and with much laxer rules. (You could post without a link and be about general events as opposed to a current event.)
Inevitably, right wing conspiracy theorists and racists from places like Stormfront came in to take over the board and it just became easier to delete the board than attempt to reign them in. This was done twice before moot created /pol/ as a containment board where he basically just let /n/ and /new/ evolve into what they were before they got nuked and then let them keep going, which backfired because /pol/ is now the gateway board to 4chan and one of the main reasons things are getting worse and worse.
>>
>>277569
That's not what happened at all. /new/ was exactly like /pol/ is now. There were the exact same type of threads on /new/ as there were on /pol/. It was just /pol/ by another name.

Half of the thread was black people hate threads.
>>
>>277569
Also great job showing the thread how much of a newfag you are by not knowing this.
I bet you don't even know who Proud Asian Supremacist was or why a good quarter of the threads were pro-china shitposting.
>>
>>277573
>That's not what happened at all. /new/ was exactly like /pol/ is now. There were the exact same type of threads on /new/ as there were on /pol/. It was just /pol/ by another name.
The level of revisionism here makes Holocaust denial look mainstream.
>>
>>277573
I miss /b/ black people hate threads
>>
>>277575
>oh fuck i showed the thread how much of a newfag i am better damage control
Again, great job showing the thread that you're a stupid fuck that doesn't know what he's talking about.

/new/ was just /pol/. There's no distinction between them. /n/ was just /new/. Any attempts to 'reign in' that section of 4chan just resulted in the same people migrating there.

The ONLY REASON you're able to brigade these threads and camp here is because no one cares about this board. If /pol/ disappeared, you better fucking believe this place would turn into it overnight just like old /n/ did and just like /new/ did.

you know what's mainstream? coming from fucking reddit or a discord server and then reading an encyclopedia dramatica article about 4chan and then just assuming that you know everything there is to know about it. You didn't read your study material hard enough if you didn't know that and are doing a terrible job blending in.
>>
>>277577
>/new/ was just /pol/. There's no distinction between them. /n/ was just /new/.
Maybe if you repeat it enough times, maybe it will become true.

Just looking at the kinds of memes /pol/ made and the kinds of memes /new/ made makes it self-evident that everything you say is retarded, probably because it was taught to you by other revisionist tards.

>you know what's mainstream? coming from fucking reddit or a discord server
The overwhelming majority of the population of /pol/ came to 4chan around 2013-14 because Reddit and various other websites decided to start purging their right-wingers. The population of 4chan doubled overnight during the election. Guess where most of these new, retarded users ended up?
>>
>>277578
>Maybe if you repeat it enough times, maybe it will become true.
I bet you don't even know what /n/ was you fucking newfag.

>Just looking at the kinds of memes /pol/ made and the kinds of memes /new/ made makes it self-evident that everything you say is retarded
What kind of memes did /new/ make? Go on, tell us about some.

Here's another question: What color board was /new/?

You clearly never touched the board if you didn't realize that black people hate threads and PAS bait threads were at least half of the board.

Why do you even think moot gassed the board in the first place? Oh wait, I bet you didn't even know that he did that. That there was a period where we didn't even have a news board for like a year before /pol/ was even made. That's probably recent knowledge to you.
>>
>>277578
like I can't picture how someone can be so fucking stupid that they don't realize that there was a reason moot deleted /new/ in the first place. Do you seriously think /news/ is in any way representative of what /new/ looked like you fucking cretin?
>>
>>277579
>I bet you don't even know what /n/ was you fucking newfag.
You would lose that bet.

>What kind of memes did /new/ make? Go on, tell us about some.
Niggerwalk, doom paul, happy merchant shitposting.

>That there was a period where we didn't even have a news board for like a year before /pol/ was even made. That's probably recent knowledge to you.
You are vomiting common knowledge at me like it's the Book of Revelations and are trying way the fuck too hard. Go on, tell me why he brought back /r9k/ and /pol/.
>>
Anyone arguing that there is a possibility that Trump, his appointments, or Moscow, are unrelated in defrauding the U.S. - is completely ghey.

Eat this post, you know you're fucking hungry.
>>
>>277584
hey I noticed you didn't mention why moot deleted /new/ in the first place. Why, if /new/ is so much like /news/ is now, then why would he delete it?
Unless, you know, you're a newfag whose full of shit and realize that /new/ and /n/ were the same kind of cesspools as pol.
>>
>>277580
>Do you seriously think /news/ is in any way representative of what /new/ looked like you fucking cretin?
I didn't say or imply this, and >>277569 didn't say it either and at best implied it in the sense of drawing a line between /new/ and /news/, and there's a very obvious explanation as to why someone might do that.
>>
>>277588
no one cares about your irrelevant screaming on one of the least used boards on 4chan. you sound like those idiot tie-dye hairbrains on twitter who keep retweeting something over and over again in desperate hopes that no one questions them on it.
>>
>>277589
>they I noticed you didn't mention why moot deleted /new/ in the first place
Because the board was degrading into /stormfront/. Even then, /new/ as its worst was not half so racist as /pol/ as its best because, as paraphrased by that one comments, "at least the rest of us sometimes talk about other stuff."

Now you do it. Tell me the precise and exact trigger that led to moot changing his mind about /r9k/. It was common knowledge at the time.
>>
>>277590
>I didn't say or imply this, and >>277569 didn't say it either and at best implied it in the sense of drawing a line between /new/ and /news/, and there's a very obvious explanation as to why someone might do that.

>Not much to say, before /pol/ existed, we had /news/ by another name, and with much laxer rules.
this part, right here. /new/ was not like /news/ and this thread, even in its early 'golden days' before the 'racists' showed up (by the way anyone who thinks racists weren't always on 4chan is a perma-newfag) a thread like this would be filled to autosage by black dicks.
>>
>>277596
>a thread like this would be filled to autosage by black dicks.
Most threads in /pol/ would be improved by being spammed to autosage by black dicks, but tragically it's not even popular anymore. Truly the culture is dead.
>>
>>277595
>Because the board was degrading into /stormfront/.
You're actually deluded if you think /n/ and /new/ wasn't the stormfront outpost on 4chan from the day they were made. Stormfront had *active* threads on both /n/ and /new/ from the first day the boards were made.

also r9k was a great idea hamstrung by the people who browsed it. They should have never got rid of the robot. also crossing the robot should have resulted in a permanent ban after four failures.
>>
>>276353
There is more evidence of Steele being an active foreign intelligence agent than the lawyer Don Jr being an active Russian agent.
>>
>>277601
also /trash/ should have just been /r9k/ and the /r9k/ robot should have been made to ban for common phrases as well just to piss off and torture the people there.
>>
>>277601
>You're actually deluded if you think /n/ and /new/ wasn't the stormfront outpost on 4chan from the day they were made.
They HAD stormfront users, who were frequently the target of ridicule by other users, because /n/ and /new/ were not, like /pol/, full-blown white nationalist boards.

>also r9k was a great idea hamstrung by the people who browsed it.
You did not answer my question.
>>
>>277573
Thanks for proving you never posted here back in 2006. /n/ and /new/ turning into /pol/ is what caused them to get nuked by moot. /pol/ was only created because it was clear we wouldn't be able to have a current events board without it being flooded with politics, there was demand in the community to have it, and moot and the mods were sick of dealing with the people using /k/ as a proxy board.

Also you're trying to imply racism was always around was a misinterpretation. There always was, but like the rest of 4chan at the time, it was done in jest and not serious. That's not the case with /pol/ and /n/ and /new/ when they were in their death throes.

The main thing is /n/, /new/ and /pol/ all started and evolved the same way. The ONLY difference is that /pol/ was allowed to continue to evolve where the other two were killed off because of how cancerous they became. The biggest blunder was not trying to crackdown on cross posting from reddit (Making it so that if you enter from a hotlink, you're autobanned) and the removal of the spam/ban filter for reddit.

But during the 'golden age' of /n/ and /new/, anyone who thinks we were like /pol/ in any way is a revisionist trying to normalize their bullshit. We had a good balance of posters from both sides and it wasn't just rational debate being drowned out by screaming 'SHILL' 'SAGE' or whatever they use on /pol/ now to express cognitive dissonance. Even our precursors to shitposting was amusing like Invisible Sky Magician, or PROUD CONSERVATIVE.

>>277605
>because /n/ and /new/ were not, like /pol/, full-blown white nationalist boards.
I'd argue /pol/ is worse tan that because they're used to just spread propaganda from various groups. I remember Hiro had to step in during the French Elections because /pol/ was being used to spread forged documents in order to help the right wing candidate, and the French Authorities contacted Hiro over it. Christ knows who else has done it.
>>
>>277605
>They HAD stormfront users, who were frequently the target of ridicule by other users, because /n/ and /new/ were not, like /pol/, full-blown white nationalist boards.
see this? THIS is revisionism.
they had actual stormfront threads that would commonly leak into every other thread. they had full blown white nationalist threads alongside asian and black nationalist threads. sometimes other threads would purposefully raid the others just to make the other threads fuck off.
also that reminds me of another reason it was axed, that board was FILLED with generals. like full-on, nonstop generals. Ten times worse than /pol/ has it right now. holy shit if half of the board was bbc and white nationalism, the other half was generals. He did the board a favor just by killing the awful generals there.
id rather have /news/ as it is right now than have another fucking board filled with generals.

also idk what you want me to say about r9k. he axed it when he was trying to cover 4chan PR for canv.as, that thing that totally went somewhere, also ironically what people thought he axed /new/ for. and then later when ED got the axe for similar reasons he decided he was going to play high and mighty faggot and people called him out for doing the same thing for his public image.

what a mistake, should have left it dead.
>>
>>277609
>Also you're trying to imply racism was always around was a misinterpretation. There always was, but like the rest of 4chan at the time, it was done in jest and not serious.
Aaaand stopped reading there. What a fucking newfag.

This is what newfags always, always, always say when someone calls them out on 4chan always being racist as hell. "N-no, it was just a joke, there weren't serious racists."

Yeah, no, back to ED's discord. Everyone who was here sees right through that bullshit because actual literal neo-nazis used to post on 4chan and some were even huge tripfags. You're flat-out making shit up to pretend to 'fit in'.
>>
>>277611
>Thinking 4chan was seriously racist during the golden age.
>Projecting this pathetically
Our only mistake was getting our laughs by pretending to be idiots. Because real idiots like you came to shit things up thinking you found good company.

>>277610
>that board was FILLED with generals. like full-on, nonstop generals.
The only reason you can't really have a general in /pol/ is because it is now the most active board on 4chan and unless it's something where they either are a cult or paid to keep it alive (The Trump one) It would get shoved off immediately and the upkeep would be insane.
>>
>>277610
>they had actual stormfront threads that would commonly leak into every other thread. they had full blown white nationalist threads alongside asian and black nationalist threads.
Yes, they HAD white nationalist threads, which is completely different from /pol/ where pretty much everyone is a white nationalist until declared otherwise.

>and then later when ED got the axe for similar reasons he decided he was going to play high and mighty faggot and people called him out for doing the same thing for his public image.
Thank you for answering a question I asked directly and straightforwardly in >>227584 after having had half an hour to look it up.
>>
>>277616
should have been >>277584*
>>
>>277610
>>277611
>>277616
>look mom, I'm pretending to be an oldfag on 4chan's only board that doesn't allow image replies!
>>
>>277616
>Thank you for answering a question I asked directly and straightforwardly in >>227584 after having had half an hour to look it up.
>OH GOD SOMEONE DOESN'T HOVER OVER THE TEXT-ONLY BOARD THAT GETS ONE REPLY AN HOUR HE MUST HAVE LOOKED IT UP!
can you be any more of a retarded faggot? i know that you only browse this board because the memes on other boards trigger the living shit out of you, but everyone else browses the rest of 4chan because this board is a dead shithole.
you may as well be asking why you didn't receive instant replies on 7chan.
>>
>>277612
>Hur dur we were only pretending
this is newfag revisionism. you're full-on retarded if you didn't realize that 4chan has always had racists on it.
Holy SHIT you have to be retarded to not know that. the "We were only pretending!" is what people tell themselves in retrospect to justify the fact that they've always posted in that kind of environment and simply grew out of it.
but you posted holocaust and nigger memes just like everyone else and you had a laugh about it. our only mistake was not banning shitheads like you when you came from gaia and tried to 'fit in'.
>>
>>277672
Wrong newfag, you're trying to do actual revision of history by equating people saying the word nigger in jest and those thinking we need to hang all black people. Which is flat out wrong and not how 4chan was.

If you were even around back then (Doubtful) it's not anyone fault but your own that you are not able to recognize it and think you were in the company of actual racists.
>>
>>277663
This, it would be interesting to see if he'd post stuff he didn't find from ED or KYM or whatever site newfags use to give themselves a crash course on 4chan history to make them believe they're experts of a time they never lived through.

I should challenge him to find proud conservative within 3 hours of this post (Giving him time to read it) since anyone who actually posted on /n/ or /new/ would have that.
>>
Check em
>>
>>277777
You can't checkem on the slowest board on this dump. Fuck off
>>
>>277778
:^)
>>
>>227584
>Blatant shitposters from /pol/ are being banned.
Bai gawd, we do have a mod checking up on us from time to time.
>>
>>277914
Looks like it happened in a couple of threads.
>>
>>277920
Seems to be site wide. Threads are slightly more enjoyable to talk in now.
>>
>>276561
It's not treason unless you are at war with that country. Here's the legal definition of treason.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
Notice this part
>adheres to their enemies
This only refers to country we are fighting an active, ground war with on either their or our soil.
We are not at war with Russia, they are a rival but not a wartime enemy.
>>
>>276561
>Treason
>Sedition
It does not fall under the legal documentation of either.
What happened probably didn't break any laws tbqh. I'm sure it was handled in such a way by Cohen as to be within the confines of the normal definitions of law.
Its probably going to take a novel interpretation of a law to even see a trial.
The job of a good lawyer is not to cover up crimes but to make things happen in a way in which they are not illegal
>>
>>276645
Yeah sure pal, every Mexicans registration papers were lost
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>>276436
This.
These Dumpf is finished threads are getting old
>>
>>277960
Yup. I keep waiting for shareblue paid shills to be tired of bumping it
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>>277969
Bump
>>
>>277960
>>277969
Okay, Ivans.
>>
>>277958
why is this the discussion about the president of the united states of America, is it just so blatantly obvious this time and it's always happened?
and why is the president worried about his son breaking the law?

either way it's embarrassing as an american
>>
>>277981
>and why is the president worried about his son breaking the law.
Because his son did break the law on his behalf, and maybe orders.




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