[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/o/ - Auto



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



Could any anons give me some advice on how much it would take to do a full rebuild on a 302 Windsor from a Mustang LX? I wanna do it myself, sans the machine work, and I wanna know how much I should plan for. Pic related isn’t mine
>>
>>18319359
depends what needs replacing. if you have a second vehicle for commuting then just pull the motor to check it out and order whatever parts you need.
>>
somewhere between $500 and $5,000 depending on how much the machine shop charges you
>>
>>18319476
It’s for a project car. I have a different dd
>>
>>18319728
What’s all involved? I’m new to wrenching so I’m kinda asking for a rundown on the whole process
>>
It depends honestly. A factory rebuild or a high performance build using forged parts?
>>
>>18319359
$200 for the kit
>>
>>18319728
My college has an auto department they cleaned the block and preped the crank for free. Its great if you don't mind a pot blazing border nigger honing your block
>>
>>18319778
>>18319786

Are there any specialty tools I’d need? I have a normal tool set, but not much beyond that.
>>
File: 1466311786728.jpg (282 KB, 1600x1200)
282 KB
282 KB JPG
>>18319728
>>18319786
If OP just wants to freshen it up, it can be cheap.
But I guarantee he needs pistons.
I'd say the cheapest reliable rebuild is going g to be about $1,000
Or you can dump in $14,000 and have some fun.
Its easy to lose control and go overboard. I spent over $1,000 just on stainless /ARP bolts and hardware for this thing.
>>
File: IMGP19641.jpg (2.8 MB, 4000x3000)
2.8 MB
2.8 MB JPG
>>18319818
IIRC he still wants to run an ancient letter cam.

What exactly do you want to do with it OP? Stock rebuild? Heads, cam, intake? What year stang? A fairly mils H/C/I 302 is plenty fun, and pretty cheap if you shop around on corral.

SBF's are some of the easiest engines there are to work on.
>>
>>18319775
1 remove carb and intake
2 remove valve covers and loosen the rocker arms to get the push rods. Keep the push rods in order so they go back into the same hole when youre putting it back together
3. remove heads and inspect for cracks and heat damage like warping. Also make sure all the valves are seated properly
4 flip the engine and remove oil pan to inspect bottom end for signs of damage
5. Remove pistons and keep them in order so they will return to the same cylinder. Check the bearings and crank for more severe damage or scarring
6. Remove cam and check for scarring on the lobes
7. Get block honed by a machine shop and crank possibly
8new rings on pistons and new bearings on the rods
9 reinstall cam, new seals, and timing chain reinstall crank
10 bolt pistons onto crank with new pan and gasket
11 flip engine back over and reinstall push rods
12new head gasket and bolt on the head
13 tighten rocker arms to specs
14 new intake gaskets and install intake manifold
15 install carb

Im probably forgetting something but it should look like this
>>
>>18319847
>>18319884

I think I want to find a comfortable middle ground. I don’t plan on keeping the car stock but I won’t go toward boost for a while. I have 3 cars including this project. $14k seems like a lot, lol.
>>
Bout tree fiddy.
>>
>>18319775
generally it goes like this

>they strip and clean the block and heads
>inspect the block and heads to determine if its viable for a rebuild and if so what needs to be done
>if necessary they bore the cylinder walls bigger and hone them, if not just hone
>hone the cam bearing bore
>resurface and balance the crankshaft
>valve job on the heads
>install new valve seats
they can do more or less depending on the parts and what you want done. pretty much you're looking at around $1,000 for the machine shop plus the cost of new seals,gaskets,bearings,rings and any new parts needed. if they have to bore the cylinders you will need to buy new pistons to match the overbore size
>>
>>18319949
It adds up fast when you build an engine
Heads were $1,500
Crankshaft $800
Pistons $500
Then you decide to get serious and go with main bearing girdle, rocker girdle, chro-moly pushrods....
Then you start snapping u-joints and driveshafts.
Then you grenade your diff.
Then you leave half your transmission in the fast lane and the other half on the flatbed.
Since the rest of you drive train is (probably) stock- either do the bare minimum on the rebuild or be prepared to replace everything else.
>>
>>18319949
Again, what year car? SEFI or carbed?
>>
>>18319359
You can build a SBC for under $1k including a used block ..soo, about trefiddy
>>
>>18319998
I’m sorry. It’s an 88 Mustang LX
>>
>>18320024
What’s sbc?
>>
>>18320136
>sbc
Chevy small block.
>>
>>18320145
I thought about doing that, but The thing that made me want to rebuild the engine currently in the car is I wanted to learn, that’s why I got it.
>>
>>18320170
302 are not very good engines, the 351 is much better, and if you buy a longblock you still get to build most of it anyway
>>
>>18320203
>the 351
weighs 100 lb more.
>>
>>18320203
What would you recommend I do with the engine I currently have?
>>
>>18320226
ebay
>>
>>18320203
A 302 with gt40's, explorer intakes and a decent OTS cam sounds like it would be perfect for OP
>>
>>18320336
just pull a explorer motor from the junkyard. with springs and a cam the thing will be hella fun
>>
File: IMGP2386.jpg (743 KB, 3133x2350)
743 KB
743 KB JPG
>>18320393
That's what I usually do. I assume OP wants to at least run his short block though.
>>
>>18320393
I’m not looking to just buy a motor, I actually want to do a tear down and rebuild.
>>
Bump
>>
>>18320767
Buy a broken lawn mower.
>>
>>18319359
$300. $160 for a ring seals bearings rebuild kit and some misc tools, fluids, and lube to put it together
>>
>>18319824
Torque wrench, ring compressor to get pistons in the bore, cam seal installer, something to pull balancer off crank snout. That's honestly about it
>>
>>18320767
Are you running the original efi or moving it to carburetor?
>>
>>18322339
I’d want to keep it fuel injected

>>18322332
Thanks I can price that stuff out.

>>18320442
Is that a pic of yours?
>>
BUMp
>>
>>18320203
Dude, if you're talking about Windsors then its the same engine.
351w just has a taller deck height for the longer stroke and a slightly wider intake manifold to compensate for the increase in distance between the heads.
And they do not fit properly in a fox body without other mods.
Hell, I have to run a 3" cowl hood for >>18319847
>>
File: IMG_20150804_230002653.jpg (2.42 MB, 4320x2432)
2.42 MB
2.42 MB JPG
>>18322601
>Is that a pic of yours?

Of course, granted I drive cars where a stock HO is considered an upgrade. I've got thrown more than I care to count of these engines together.
>>
>>18324357
How difficult would you say a rebuild is for someone with no prior experience?
>>
File: BhSymU7.jpg (2.45 MB, 4000x3000)
2.45 MB
2.45 MB JPG
>>18324958
It's not hard at all. There's endless info on the web. Have a machine shop check over the bottom end, my guess is you'll go 20 or 30 over which will require new pistons, you'll reuse your rods and crank (maybe 10 under on the crank bearings). Go to your local pick and pull and grab the heads and intakes off a 96-00 5.0 Exploder or Mountainqueer, have the shop go through the heads, throw on some Alex's valve springs, pick a cam suited for your application, and have fun.

SBF's are easy as fuck to work on, it's just nuts and bolts my man
>>
>>18324979
I plan on it. I could potentially have access to another 302 from an 89 f150 for Free.

Can you explain what you meant by 20 or 30 over and 10 under?
>>
>>18322325
Pretty much this if the engine was in good running condition when it was pulled.

>>18322332
You forgot the cylinder hone.
>>
>>18324291
what are you talking about, it's common knowledge that 351 blocks are a lot stronger
>>
File: crack302.jpg (110 KB, 800x600)
110 KB
110 KB JPG
>>18319359
Only stupid assholes drive windsor blocks.
>>
>>18322332

That's for a shade tree rebuild.

You need a lot of measuring tools if you want to make sure everything is within spec
>>
>>18326049
Like what?
>>
>>18325631
He's saying the cylinders will have do be honed (made bugger), usually by .020-.030 of an inch to smooth them out/get them round again and new pistons t match the slightly larger bore.
The portion of the crankshaft that rides on bearings probably needs to be cleaned up also so after its ground smooth you buy bearings that are slightly over sized to compensate.
>>
>>18325720
>aftermarket pistons
>aftermarket budget i-beam rods
>aftermarket budget cast crankshaft
>block notched for stroker kit
>mains reassembled with half of them using original main bolts and half using aftermarket studs.
>blames the engine design and not the moron who built the engine in a cluttered white trash garage
>>
>>18325720
Almost forgot
>that core plug
I'm sure it magically flipped sideways when the engine was pulled and had nothing to do with causing the engine to overheat while the driver was out fucking around.
>>
Bump
>>
>>18325720
some people could break an anvil
>>
>>18319976

Kevin?
>>
Considering you are asking this I assume you do not have proper tools. Pay the machine shop an extra 300$ to assemble the bottom end of the engine. If they won't just assemble the bottom end go somewhere else that will. Also throw the 302 in the trash. Go to the junkyard and get a 351 roller engine out of a truck. Chinese aluminum heads. 400+hp and the block won't split. Don't even have to rebuild the bottom end. Just do heads and cam.
>>
>>18330115
>get a 351 out of a truck
Now his header hits his steering column
Now his hood won't close
Now his exhaust doesnt bolt up
Now his throttle body is on the wrong side and none of the linkage fits
Now his airbox is on the wrong side

People who are unfamiliar with fox body's should not reply in a fox body thread.
>>
>>18330841
That sounds inconvenient to say the least. How do you fix that?
>>
>>18320145
>>18320203
>hurr durr OP you should just add over a hundred lbs to the front of your car because I said so
302 is perfectly adequate for a mustang. You can build a 347 stroker and make 400hp reliably no problem. You're just a fucking dumbass. There's no point in adding that kind of weight unless you're planning on going full retard drag car mode.
>>
>>18330115
>400+hp and the block won't split.
A 302 won't split at 400hp you complete mouthbreather
>>
OP already stated he wants to run the engine he has, that rules out a 351. Probably for the best because then were into changing the oil pan, different headers, after market intakes or a lighting or marine lower, accessories issues, hood clearance issues, ect... A roller block 351 is definitely the way to go in some applications, I have one already for a fresh build, but in this case I'd advise against it.

I do agree on have the machine shop throw the short block together. Not that it's hard, but since it's OP's first time, the few extra hundred is probably worth the piece of mind.

As for aftermarket cylinder heads, I wouldn't even buy that cheap chink shit, you can get used TFS's off corral for the same price, or spend a little more and get something better like AFR's Then were still into after market intakes, injectors and a tune or shit tier calibrated MAF.

Honestly it sounds like he wants a slightly better then stock rebuild that will be easy to put together, cheap, reliable, and proven. Just have the bottom end gone through, thrown on some gt40/p's, explorer upper/lower/TB, you could even run your factory HO cam which would give you a combo that plays nice with the factory tune. It's been done thousands of times because it just works.
>>
>>18331554
Spend another $2,500 on hybrid parts.
Raised cowl hood.
Relocate battery.
Custom headers and exhaust.
Custom air box.

>>18331568
I hit 592hp with >>18319847 on a factory xxx block.
Built it about 8 years ago and haven't had a single issue.
People who claim the stock 5.0 block will crack are those who throw a 150 shot of nitrous on an engine with 150,000+ miles and 5 pounds of oil pressure- then post pictures after it grenades and blame the block for their incompetence.
Since the foxbody was the most popular domestic for mods, it just happens to get the most retards just by law of averages.
>>
>>18331705
>People who claim the stock 5.0 block will crack are those who throw a 150 shot of nitrous on an engine with 150,000+ miles and 5 pounds of oil pressure- then post pictures after it grenades and blame the block for their incompetence.


I know 150 people like this. A bunch of them have been banned from the racetrack for dumb shit like this, then cry about it, because DEY JUS HATIN ON MUH CAR DAWG CUZ AH'M FASTER DEN DEM!! LOL FORD ENGINE BLEWEDED UP!!! HONDA 4 LYFE LOL HONDA BLEWEDED UP!!! BMW 4 LYFE!!! OH SHIT I RAN IT INTO A TREE DRUNK AS FUK ON RADIATOR FLUID MOONSHINE AND SHOE POLISH!!! DEY SUX!!!
>>
>>18319824
get plasti-gauge which is cheap as fuck to measure the clearances for the bearings. be patient, precise, and careful. dont rush shit at all, you wont be glad when you overlooked something the first time and throw a rod because you forgot to make sure you put the oil pump in. (I'm looking at you Dougie Scorretti you fucking faggot. I know you are on here you retard cheapskate fuckhead Italian stallion rodthrowing 11th grade shop class washout). just because some old ass dudes can throw a working engine together in 2 hours, doesnt mean it's going to a 2 hour job for you. take your goddamn time.

its not hard, but the first time everything is going to be absolutely alien as fuck for you. enjoy that feeling, document EVERYTHING and thank god for digital cameras. get a couple of rebuild manuals, and the Ford factory workshop manual in hardcopy. USE GLOVES AND EYEPRO, you will thank me the first time a little piece of metal that the machinist was supposed to have taken off goes TINK against your glasses. assembly lube is cheap, use lots.
>>
>>18331854
There's a lot of stupid little shit that can go wrong.
I installed an oil pimp once, and it hit a main bearing stud before it seated. If I had used bolts it would have had enough clearance. If I had not noticed, that engine would have ate itself from being oil starved.
Someone without experience could have easily overlooked the small gap.

That being said, someone has to actually understand what's happening to the parts they're assembling, its not IKEA "peg A into slot B" tier.
>>
>>18333744
thats why i mentioned the guy i know. its best if you have someone that is willing to hold your hand during a first build to catch nooby fuckups.
>>
>>18331801
There's also a difference between having 600 hp on the street and having 500 hp and keeping it at 8,000 rpm for an hour on a circle track
>>
>>18334423
I was referring to the retards I know, with some shit beater 88 5.0 notchback with 250K miles, and $700 in nitrous gear doing burnouts behind taco bell "FOR THE LADIES" on bald tires, with 5lbs of oil pressure, some edlebrock carb they stole out of the junkyard that has never been turned, racing headers made by their boy Randal who welded them up using a a wire hanger, some high amp battery charger their granddad stole from western auto in 1974 and some very suspect and sketch tubing possibly from a hvac system, "the same exact thing as them nascar heads" they got from the same junkyard, and a "racing seat" from a base 95 jetta they also had thrown over the fence at the junkyard. none of this is even slightly exaggerated. I know a guy who had this exact car. he also claimed to have ran down a lambo, which we later found out from the owner was a MR2 with gullwing doors, a ferrari which was a Toyota Paseo, a hayabusa, which was a vespa with some Quadrophenia as fuck fairing kit that was tight as fuck in person.


I have seen some shit dude. the morons are real, and they are the reason everything is shit. they are the ones screaming about how something is trash everywhere with their limited IQ and obama phones somehow posting to forums.
>>
>>18333971
I wish I had that.
>>
Could I do all of the stuff I need to do with the engine on a stand?
>>
File: 1507864233235.jpg (96 KB, 714x960)
96 KB
96 KB JPG
>>18335047
Yep. Engine stands rotate so you can work on the bottom or top of the engine.
An empty block is light, a couple girl scouts can pick it up. Once its torn down its easy to transport pieces to the shop to get machined.

>>18334467
Jesus.
I thought the guys I went to highschool with were massive idiots, but you found some top grade morons...
>>
>>18319901
Get a big bucket of diesel or kerosene, a nylon brush, a wire wheel (brass is good), rags and a fuckton of brakleen and clean stuff as you take it off, especially valves
>>
File: volvo_motormuseum_40.jpg (155 KB, 1280x960)
155 KB
155 KB JPG
Anyone ever rebuilt a Volvo redblock? They're pretty simple engines but since they're a niche in the rebuilding market parts are expensive and sometimes hard to come by. I know they don't make much power but I love them dearly and I think it would be a fun project to rebuild one and cruise in a comfy ol' swedish brick.
>>
>>18319359
Look up Pete's Garage on jewtube and watch all his videos. You'll find answers to the questions you didn't even know to ask.
>>
>>18335826
I've known them since 1991, and their lumbee indian asses were just getting in and out of juvie. this is the least of their insane retardation.

the one dude had an uncle, and i say had because he tried pulling a tooth using a tow hook and a guy on a motorcycle. he ripped his fucking head off. shit was gory as fuck. that was the summer of 1993 or so. my dad is clinically insane once he gets booze or dope in his system, but god help us all when these high powered mutants gets a 3:15 A.M. idea during the day.

>>18335915
arent they based off the SBC but just one bank of it?
>>
File: IMGP2554.jpg (2.8 MB, 4608x3456)
2.8 MB
2.8 MB JPG
>>18335047
Of course, buy a cheap one from HF or a used one off CL. Just don't get one of those 3 legged tippy as shit fuckers.
>>
>>18335826
>that picture
Story?
>>
>>18319884
Not even meming, what's wrong with a letter cam? As in e303 or b303 etc?
>>
>>18337276
They are just ancient by today's standards. Theres so many better OTS choices that it really dosn't make sense to run one unless it's free or something.
>>
File: december1994.jpg (179 KB, 1024x481)
179 KB
179 KB JPG
>>18337243
They're the successor to the volvo b18/b20 which I guess are basically half a sbc or sbf lol, they're pushrod 4 bangers. Redblocks are more akin to the lima OHC (ford actually gave volvo ecoboost meme engines for some later fwd cars). I like to think I know my way around one pretty well, I've been keeping a 340k specimen running for the past few years. Always wanted to do a complete teardown and rebuild to get one running like they did when they rolled off the line, wanted to know if anyone has any experiences with a project like this.
>>
>>18337273
paint prep got a little too extreme
>>
>>18337493
there was a guy that said something about making a volvo penta using a sbc and two heads for his boat.
>>
>>18337391
I guess I haven't looked into it too much. All I would want is something that is fairly linear in terms of torque curve.
>>
File: 1500142968384.jpg (139 KB, 676x656)
139 KB
139 KB JPG
>>18331560
>>18331568
found the 302 cuck, the 351w is superior, deal with it

>extra 100lbs
literally irrelevant, now kill yourself
>>
>>18337955
The size differences, and as a result won’t make that change worth it though, according to what The other guy said.

>>18335843
Would that cause an issue if things aren’t completely dried off before they’re placed to the side with it being a normal gas engine
>>
>>18338048
That's clearly Soviet or another shitter you're talking to based off of his images, not even worth responding to. Moron can only think in binary terms of absolute best and absolute worst, not realizing that a middle ground is plenty for people who actually drive cars and work on them instead of benchracing all day.
>>
>>18338070
obsessed
>>
>>18337276
>>18337391
There's nothing wrong with alphabet cams.
I've seen an F303 hit 1,400hp with 27psi of boost.
>>
>>18337955
I own both, along with FE blocks.
351w in a fox is literally retarded.
The benefits are nonexistent compared to the modifications needed.
Get a main bearing girdle if you're seriously worried about block failure.
If you're going to do the mods to fit in the larger block, then do a Cleveland or big block swap.
$20 says you have never owned one and drive a civic, while drooling over the pages of mustang mags- because you have shown how little real world experience you have.
>>
>>18338587
There's better choices today though. There's people who still think thumper e7's and an e303 is the greatest combo ever made.
>>
>>18337955
302 is better, every one knows that, except those too young to post here.
>>
>>183386827
Ok, fuck max hp wank for a moment, if someone wants just a basic improvement on the stock torque curve, why is a letter cam bad? Isn't that what an E303 plus breather mods is?
>>
Op here. After some though on it, I plan on keeping the build NA and after rebuilding the engine putting a lot of focus into the suspension, brakes, wheels, and tires to make the Fox a fun weekend car for the streets. Is expecting to get to 300 whp from the (average of) 225 stock unreasonable to expect without breaking the bank? And what could I need to make that happen?
>>
>>18319976
This sounds expensive and unpleasant lol.
>>
>>18330841
>header hits his steering column
Yeah, because it's totally unrealistic that OP will buy swap headers that clear.
>Hood won't close
False
>Exhaust doesn't bolt up
If you're building an engine your exhaust isn't staying stock
>Throttle body is on the wrong side and none of the linkage fits
>Now his airbox is on the wrong side
Yeah, wouldn't want to have to do something crazy like moving your battery to the trunk or swap out the stock intake.

People who have no idea how to modify cars should shut the fuck up and stop posting opinions like they're facts.

>>18331560
>weight
>100lbs on a car that handles like shit anyways is going to ruin the experience
Please, I know these are both you, just shut the fuck up.

>>18338627
>I own
You don't.

>>18339581
>300hp on a stock 5.0L
You'll need heads, a cam, intake manifold, and full exhaust to hit that. ~$3,000.
>>
>>18339771
That list was straight forward and to the point. Thanks for that bud. Lol I don’t really know enough to engage in the 302 vs 351 discussion so I’ll leavr that to you guys
>>
>>18339771
>>18339881
Oh by the way, does that include any gains from tuning that I’d have to get done?
>>
>>18339771
I'd argue that swapping an engine and making the car even more front heavy is pointless when OP just wants a "mild" build, just jumping into this thread.
>>
>>18339892
Gains from tuning is kind of moot, since you'll always want the engine to be "tuned" properly. It's not hard to tune a 300hp windsor though, nothing really special to it besides making sure it's not too rich or too lean and that your timing is in order. Basically no tuning required at that power level, honestly. Maybe a bump up to 19/24lb injectors if you really wanted to and an upgraded fuel pressure regulator to tune for A/F.

The issue with your power goal is that for basically the same amount of money (besides actual short block), you could get much more power with something like a 347 or a 408. 347 with those same mods will be in the 400ish range and the 408 could be easily near 500 depending on the cam. It just depends on what you want to do with it though. 347 shortblocks can be had for around $2100 and 408s for a little more. You don't need forged anything or an aftermarket block for a basic street motor with a 6k rev limit.

That's only if you are already taking the motor out though, otherwise there's no need for a 300HP build.

>>18339930
The thing is, no matter how mild the build, if you are swapping shortblocks you have to keep in mind that a 351W will make a lot of power and be even more street friendly at that same power level. A 400HP 351W is way nicer on the street than the 302 at 400hp, not that it is bad either. The weight doesn't matter unless you're trying to compete, because when any weight added by the 351 block would even out with stock weight when you swap on the aluminum heads, intake, headers, etc.

If his shortblock is healthy, then I wouldn't bother touching it unless you had bigger power goals.
>>
>>18339956
Lol I take it you don’t really like the 302 much.
>>
>>18341440
No, I own a 302 and I like it.

Nothing I said was a slight towards the engine at all, it's very good. It just has limitations that come with the lack of displacement or an aftermarket block. It is a very good platform N/A for someone wanting 300ish hp or even with a mild amount of boost for anyone wanting around 500. If you respect the limits, they live a very long time and even if you break the block they can be had very affordably.

It is arguably one of my favorite motors.
>>
>>18341821
What do you think of this top end kit from American Muscle to use with the machined bottom end?

https://www.americanmuscle.com/topend-engine-kit-8793.html
>>
>>18339771
>I own, you don't.
>>18319847
Is my engine, dipshit.
One of many that I've built over the years.
The list of issues is only a partial list. There's a reason that 351w swaps in a fox are rare, because its a PITA.
How about the fact that none of the 302 accessory brackets will bolt to a 351?
The amount of mods needed would take me 20 minutes to type out.
You've obviously never done the swap.
I have.
>>
>>18319728
$5000 and you could probably buy a new 302 from Blueprint Motors
>>
>>18343946
Or at least a well built one off craigslist.




Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.