Seems like "hard shells" that are 100% waterproof are overpriced for what they offer. Not to mention your body cannot breathe when wearing an impenetrable shell. Every company seems to have their own goretex-style equivalent technology and it never holds up and your $100 shell starts peeling off or loses the main benefits. What does /out/ think? Wind/water "resistant" is good enough imo. If your going into a downpour just wear rain gear not a $500 trashbag.
Lol wear a trash bag you dumb fuck
This board is a terrible place to ask about high end rain gear because it's full of poorfags who don't actually have any experience with it.Additionally, only cheap rain gear bills itself as 100% waterproof. High end stuff uses careful wording and water resistance ratings.The problem with peeling is caused mainly by skin oils not being cleaned off regularly or contact with DEET. This problem is also specific to 2.5 layer rain gear and is not present with the higher quality 3 layer. If peeling happens with the goretex 2.5 layer (paclite) or with patagonia's 2.5 layer both companies will repair or replace for free. I saw a ten year old Patagonia rain jacket get replaced for free by the company.
>>1114231Use the right tool for the job. If you are in conditions that require a hardshell or have items that require it, get it. Otherwise, fuck off.
>>1114231got a mountain hardwear plasmic and its a very good jacket. no venting zips under the arms though which is annoying, but in terms of being waterproof its very good.
There's nothing else that's going to keep you more dry than a hardshell if you need to be in heavy rain for several hours at a time. They're also more durable than people give them credit (the shells are nylon/polyester which has a much higher denier strength than wool or cotton), and do a very good job at stopping wind. I personally don't feel comfortable going /out/ more than overnight without one, but I'm usually /out/ in temperate rainforest or exposed hill country (lower south island NZ).
>>1114320This. My 4 year old well used ~$600 jacket (3-layer) was replaced straight away when one of the zippers broke and the company didn't bother repairing the zipper. When it comes to shell-jackets you get what you pay for (to a certain degree). If you tried going on a 7 day hike in variable weather in both a $100 and a $500 jacket you would see the difference at once.The guy above me is also right about the peeling - If your membrane comes into a lot of contact with dirt, oils (and even water, which is why it needs to be recoated with DWR) it will deteriorate.That being said, of course you can get away with cheaper jackets, or a water-resistant jacket and a raingear on top of that, but it's less comfortable. So if you've got the money I'd consider it! (Pro-tip, hardshell jackets should ALWAYS be bought on sales)
>>1114679>$600that's my salary in a monthwhy are you buying such overpriced shit? there's probably ones that are as good as that with better prices (FAR better prices)
>tfw hiking and camping in milsurp I found for free at my uncles house while reading about some guy who spent literal $600 for a jacket and still he got wet
It's all about the new non-DWR materials that are being made now. DWR is shit. Even on an expensive jacket it's shit. It wets out. Old gortex is a massive meme. But their new material looks super interesting.
>>1114710I always stuff my milsurp poncho in my pack, great for tossing on the ground for a taking a break and has always kept me dry.
>>1114687gearfags gonna gearpeople just love to throw away money>muh quality muh murrica muh jobfuck off dumbshits
>>1114687>>1114773I don't know, I work part time and make $2500 a month before taxes... And the jacket was on sale for $350I wouldn't call it overpriced compared to the outdoors market in my country. It's a top-tier jacket for sure, but not unreasonably so. Still a gearfag though :))>pic related, my new thermoball jacket I got for $180
>>1114687>making less than half of minimum wageget a job at mcdonalds you dumb fuck
>>1114789>thermoball>not the mountain hardwear ghost whisperAnd you call yourself a gearfag
The only way to carry your gear is by hand. bags are for pussies.The only other acceptable option is the Whipsnake.
>>1114717It depends on the rain: >softshell if you're /out/ and it's spitting.>barbour leather if its middling rain>downy jacket incase it's cold/windy and spitting>poncho if it's bouncing off the floor
100 percent waterproof always and forever lots of ventilation
>>1114890>mountain hardwear ghost whisperI might have considered it if I was shopping for down jackets, retard
>>1114687how do you survive
>>1114789Nice. I have a terrible habit of picking up shit I don’t need because it’s on sale, so I know the pain. Which jacket did you get? As far as rain jackets go I don’t think I’d ever need anything more than my arc’teryx alpha fl
>>1114320>>1114714the only helpful posts in this thread. buy 3 layer gore-tex (GORE-TEX Pro) everything else is a waste of money
>>1114320How does that measure up to something like Mountain Hardware's OutDry?
>>1114800>>1115308i'm not an ameritard
>>1114500This. Would not consider going innawoods for more than 24 hours without a hardshell
>>1115574a Frogg Toggs would be considered a harshell no?
>>1115439Also look at eVent, its actually more breathable than Gore-Tex. It's a little bit less durable than gore-tex pro, but unless you're doing serious mountaineering you should be fine.
>>1115439I have an expensive Marmot ProShell. It was pretty good when I first bought it. Water beaded off and didn't soak in. After a couple weeks of trekking the waterproof finish wore off and any kind of moisture just soaked through. I tried to do a Nikwax treatment but it did fuck all. There are other kinds of chemical sprays but I haven't tried them. I bought a $15 Coleman waterproof jacket from Walmart, and it actually keeps me dry.
Is 15,000 mm enough waterproofing for a hard shell?
>>1115383The model is called Storen from the Norwegian brand Bergans. Designed for alpine use, skiing and climbing. Real pleased with it.
>>1115586>Frogg ToggsYeah, sure
>>1115620For most uses, yeah. You'd be shit out of luck to face water coming at you with force equivalent of 10,000mm, unless your playing with a fire hose.
>>1115482Most of the proprietary membranes are comparable. The biggest difference you'll encounter among reputable brands is how the laminate or liner feels against your skin. A rubbery laminate makes even a very breathable membrane feel clammy.
>>1115482Mountain Hardware's quality has gone to shit over the years
>>1115614The marmot pro layers are terrible. Honestly over time I've stopped buying from marmot, their quality control must be s joke, and it takes weeks and weeks for repairs. I had a climbing pack shoulder strap rip out and the repair job they did, I could have done on a sewing machine at home. Seriously, fuck marmot
I don't understand why some of you guys spend so much money on gear that doesn't actually keep you dry. I'm on my second $20-30 plastic poncho with hood not for everyone I know but I wear it over everything else plus a pair of insulated water proof boots and I stay warm and dry why your rain coat delaminates from getting wet, lol.
>>1116209It doesn't delaminate from getting wet, it's probably because people don't wash the inner layer of the jacket leaving oil to wreck the membrane.
>>1116065second on mountain hardwear being shit nowi sent them tons of emails about how their down jackets i bought from them was losing down at a fast rate....they never wanted to respond instead they sent me some shitty auto message plus the employee at their on site store was fucking ass. I said fuck id rather spend more money for a more expensive brand like arctyrex and Outdoor research and i do
>>1116301Yes, the membrane. Are you going to say something or just make fucking retarded shitposts?
>>1115552>making $600 a month>calling other people retardsSomething isn't right.
>>1116065>>1116409>down product losing down over timeCOLOR ME SURPRISED