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Why can't /out/, the outdoors board, agree on what conservationism looks like? I feel like its pretty simple.
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This bait is slightly more sophisticated than the others
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Because this site has a terminal infestation of /pol/tards leaking out of their containment board.
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Pic related is $7,000,0000,000 of government conservation
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>>1138062
>implying private ownership would have done better
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Because everyone in favor of logging and thinning thinks the opposing side wants to eliminate logging altogether.

And everyone who is against active management thinks that the people wanting it are going to clear cut the entire United States.

So we just revel in our beetle kill and infestations and sub part timber growth and yell at each other while all the old growth burns down.
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>>1138036
>>>/lgbt/
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This honestly wouldn't even be a problem if the retards who hate genetic engineering didn't exist
Can you imagine an pine tree hitting 40 feet after just 1 year ?
Feels future man
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>>1138081
monsanto pls leave
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>>1138080
This might be the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen and I was a counselor at a camp with a special needs bunk.
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>>1138086
Shh don't be mean to him, 4chan is his safe space
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>>1138062
Those weren't government mines.
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>>1138089
>4chan
>safe space
Good one, anon. I chuckled.
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>>1138089
>4chan is his safe space
not really, a functioning adult doesn't need such thing. It's jewst a stupid pic, don't get so defensive.

>>1138086
you need to step up your game then.
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If 4channers could actually agree on anything, we'd have the CIA on suicide watch. Disagreement is part of the site culture.
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>>1138086
Go back to /pol/ you crybaby
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The only conservation that has ever worked is private ownership the government just doesn't care because when the government owns something no one ones it, thus no incentive and no consequences to not sell it off or rape it to the highest bidder. You can see this at work with the injuns, no one owned the land so they didn't bother to defend it when whitey arrived, now it's all strip Malls, McDonald's and cucksheds
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>>1138062
Sulfide Mining is disgusting. There are Roman mines that still leak into water ways
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>>1138185
private owners LITERALLY have no incentive to take care of the land and have chose profits over conservation nearly 100% of the time. The government at least has some responsibility to the people enshrined in legislature.
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>>1138215
>The government at least has some responsibility to the people
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>>1138215
Haha, is that what they are teaching you kids at school. I'm not sure you can recover from that level of retardation
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>>1138215
Are your legs tired after jumping to so many conclusions?

Here in the southeast, while there ARE a lot of landowners who don't really care about their land management beyond a profit and while there ARE a lot of lazy foresters who just do the same ol same ol because it requires less work, there are a lot of landowners who have n interest in conservation and returning their timber to its historical species composition.

Hell, there is more private timberland between AL and GA that has been restored to historic longleaf pine savannah and is now providing habitat for threatened species than all government land in both states combined.

It's the fact that some rich landowners have the money to convert some of their land to these pet projects and the government just doesn't have enough land or money to go around. Shit, the quail plantations in southwest GA have kept the wild quail population alive for that entire region AND is one of the few places in the state where longleaf pine was managed properly, thus you have one of the rare places to study historic old growth longleaf pine.

And lets not forget that the entire western united states is burning down every season thanks to the federal government's mismanagement of our public lands for decades.
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>>1138185
5/5 i can taste the salami
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>>1138250
is this what stockholm syndrome looks like?
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>>1138185
Not true, that's as bad as saying ONLY the government can properly conserve land. Its harder for the government to adapt to new managment strategies thanks to our bureaucratic machine.

Not to mention a lot of things are cost prohibitive. Take the endangered species list as a prime example. There are candidate species that are ALL endangered, but they won't all be listed since somebody in Alaska doesn't give a flying fuck about using 12 million dollars to save an endangered toad in Louisiana. So only the high profile species get saved and the others have to wait their turn or die in the waiting list.

The government doesn't intentionally mismanage land or destroy it most of the time, it's just that the stakes for them are so much higher if they fuck up because we're paying for it AND their management strategies apply for million upon millions of acres throughout many states. So if they do or don't do something it has the potential to cost the environment and the tax payers.

I'm pulling all of this out of my ass btw, I am by no means an expert on natural resource policy nor am I a federal employee. Just observed a lot of stuff in the industry in both the government and private sector.
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>>1138215
>Unironically being a big state shill
You need to fuck off.
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>>1138257
Tell me what is wrong about anything I said and then give me sources for your statements.
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>>1138215
>What is state, national, and international forest management association standards
>What are BMPs
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>>1138268
>Here in the southeast, while there ARE a lot of landowners who don't really care about their land management beyond a profit and while there ARE a lot of lazy foresters who just do the same ol same ol because it requires less work, there are a lot of landowners who have n interest in conservation and returning their timber to its historical species composition.

source everything you have said in this paragraph.
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>>1138081
yea i'm sure it'd require more water too
and suck the nutrients out of the ground at a faster rate than the ground can replenish, even moreso if it is hauled away
also how will this effect the biodiversity of the ecosystem?
It's throwing a wrench into an already well tuned machine just so that some wealthy family in fucking LA can pick out new kitchen cabinets, because the old ones don't match the new granite counters. Fuck that.
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>>1138354
> implying if we weren't hindered we could simply modify the trees to need less water
What is gmo ?
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>>1138344
There are numerous instances of landowners who do and don't care about conservation.

To date, to my knowledge, there has not been a significant survey of landowners on the importance of conservation to them. Therefor, we do not have enough data to claim it one way or the other. HOWEVER, from what I have been told by my professors, they have encountered numerous instances of both but that more and more landowners are wanting to undertake conservation efforts on their land.
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>>1138086
>I was a counselor at a camp with a special needs bunk.
how many times did you attend to their 'special' needs ?
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>>1138075
Fucking this. And it goes beyond forest mgmt. Range only manages for welfare ranchers who can't break their old ways because muh tradition and the only way I know how to live. So you get rangelands that look like shit and have no native grasses on them. Wildlife and fisheries only manage for game so you get a huge population of game animals dependent on hunting to control their population or else they'll fuck up their own ecosystem. Along with rivers and lakes having non native fish species in them because, again, for the sake of game. All this causing some conservation retard to get his feeling hurt, so in turn, they scream for no management whatsoever. But doing nothing would allow beetle outbreak, unhealthy wildlife populations ravaging everything, crazy wildfires, infestation of non natives/exotic plant species, and so on. We've reached a point in time in wildland management where things cannot just be fixed overnight with no management whatsoever. We're now at a point of no return that will take centuries for certain places to heal naturally. But we have a problem within our management agencies as well where everyone is agenda driven. Fix that, and it'll lead to the road to fixing everything.
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>>1138469
>from what I have been told by my professors, they have encountered numerous instances of both but that more and more landowners are wanting to undertake conservation efforts on their land.
So basically, the number of landowners who care about conservation in 1-2 states (among those who have talked to a handful of professors) is increasing.

Based on this, all land should be owned by private owners, for the sake of conservation. After all, in some cases it might be a slight improvement!
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>>1138516
Lol dude you're really shit at criticizing

It's non consequential anecdotal evidence given on an opinion based topic in an Andalusian ice sculpting internet board

At no point did this become a statistical or scientific conversation
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>>1138520
Is this what defeat looks like? Just going ha-ha stop taking it so seriously broooo xDDD
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>>1138527
Not original guy, but you haven't said anything productive in arguing your viewpoint. Instead you sit their and criticize like you're on some high horse? Say something productive or fuck off
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>>1138529
Literally just got here bub. I'm not here to argue any points but. Somehow threw out some hot opinions, got asked for source, and ended with a "haha garsh stop taking it so serioussslyyyyy". I found it really funny.
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>>1138532

s/but. Somehow/. Someone
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>>1138265
If we didn’t have state governments I’d side with you. But I feel the lower profile species go to state legislatures rather than federal. But like you I also have no clue
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>>1138527
You weren't even replying to the same person
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>>1138354
literally this
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>>1138516
What exactly are you arguing?
That the government manages land and conservation better than private citizens?

Yeah, go and look at the western United States every fire season and tell me how well they've managed and conserved that public land. Doing a real bang up job of management.
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>>1138017

'Conservatives'(as they would be called now)/hunters/anglers invented conservation and brought the American wilderness/wildlife back from the brink of utter destruction while creating the blue print for successful conservation (The Pitman Robertson Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman–Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act and The American Model of Wildlife Conservation wiki/North_American_Model_of_Wildlife_Conservation)

It was coopted in the 60s or so and the name changed to "environmentalism". This group accomplishes nothing after YEARS of incredible progress under the label conservation (which is still the faction [conservationists that is] that gets the most done).
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>>1138723
>muh fires
Fuck off retard you don't know what you're talking about.
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>>1138744
so what then, its a liberal conspiracy?
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>>1138758
>10,000,000 acres of land burned in the USA every year because of government incompetence is a good thing

Geez why not burn it all so you can be satisfied
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>>1138814
>10,000,000 acres of land burned in the USA every year
You're right, we should be letting more fires burn, considering how much lower that is than historic averages and how important fire is.
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>>1138816
Fuckin finally a nigga that gets it.
Being afraid of prescribed burning is why we're in this predicament in the first place.
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>>1138917
You are a special kind of retard if you think wildfires are prescribed
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>>1138920
Considering that many tree and shrub species have evolved to open their seeds after being exposed to heat that can come only from a fire, yes there is a thing called prescribed wildfire that benefits the ecosystem more than it harms. The pictures in the photo are only 3 weeks apart.
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>>1138920
>Doesn't understand primary succession
>Doesn't know about prairie burns and how often they historically occurred
>Doesn't get that oak Savannahs are caused by fire and only larger hardy trees surviving
>Doesn't understand what serotiny is (e.x. jack pine cones)
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>>1138799

Is what is a liberal conspiracy?
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>>1138920
>>1138968
>Prescribed fire does not = wildlfire

Prescribed fires reduce fuel loads and prevent stand destroying fires. They actually do way more beneficial things for the forest, but out west this is probably the most important.
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1. Dont murder livin thins

2. Question mark x3

3. Profits

Also more forests = easier captchas bcause white traffic signs is more contrast against dark gren backgrounds yes.




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