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How about claiming the ocean ours?
A sailingboat is a home and a transport vehicle at the same time.

The problem is the high cost for food and marinas.

Dutch boats like this in the picture are able to get parked on the beach.
this means you can place your house anywhere you want. the ultimative freedom!

I try to get my boat this or next year and start my adventure. I start in the northern seas, cross the atlantic to reach the caribbean sea. and see what happens next :)

Also generals sailing threat
>>
>>1170047
>The problem is the high cost for food and marinas.
And repairs and maintenance (and crew, if the vessel is large enough to be seaworthy).
>>
>>1170060
I am a craftsman, most of repair of that steelboat I can manage alone.
I also start one handed, so there is no crew.
-maybe some passengers will pay for a jorney

these ships are pretty seaworthy 9m x 3m, weight of 6 tons.
but they have no keel, so it is a little more dangerous then a "normal" vessel
>>
you don't just fish for your food?
>>
>>1170073
I think a person that only eats fish gets scury after a while
>>
>>1170075
scurvy*
>>
>>1170075
that is why you bring lemons/limes/oranges or pot a pine tree somewhere
>>
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>>1170078
a pine tree? why??
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>>1170047
A man could really MGTOW his own way in a vessel like that...
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>>1170084
the needles have hella vitamin C, you can chew on the needles or make tea from them. be careful though about doing it too much cause you might grow tits.
>>
>>1170047
>The problem is the high cost for food and marinas.

Nah, food is cheapish (rice, dry beans, etc). Marinas are comfy if you're rich, but there are lots of free harbors. What really will cost you are repairs that you can't do yourself and gas.

Also I would highly advise you do some time crewing on others people's ships before jumping in with both feet. Sailing is an awesome and rewarding hobby but the ocean is serious shit. It's not like a road trip, you can't just pull over and call for a tow when things get rough.
>>
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>>1170170
hehe - the ocean is not for sissies.
But I won't do any crewing, that sucks for me. I gonna make a jumpstart, just set sails and start without much experience.
I just keep reading lots of books about sailing before i start and learn how to communicate with radio singnals.

As long as you watch the weatherforecast to avoid hurricanes and dont crush on a cliff, there is nothing bad that could happen.

But steel boats like pic related would even survive cliff crashs.
>>
>>1170278
I like platbodems anon, but they sail like absolute dogshit. I know how insulting this is, but even a westerly centaur outsails them
>>
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>>1170282
yes, it is not easy to handle flat grounded vessels. But most time of the trip is spended out on anchor or near the coast anyway-
and here these boast have a huge + :
they are able to "drive up the beach" (there is no keel that could break) and have alot of space inside.
>>
>>1170284
I know, but this is something a twin-keeler/ kimkieler can do just as well
>>
>>1170314
yes, but twinkeelers are 3 times more expensive
my budget isnt that high unfortunately
>>
>>1170320
Oh really? I've been looking at twinkeelers and shallow draft boats in the Netherlands so I didn't really pay attention to other types of boats. The thing is that older types of boats are probably a bit too ambitious to sail singlehandedly. On the other hand, a botter or vollenhovense bol under fail sail look glorious
>>
>>1170322
It's possible to sail them single handed by only using 1 mainsail. The problem is u are slow as fuck that way - haha
when you set all 3 sails and suddenly a storm comes up, you are probably screwed

In my case that is no problem, I take myself time
>>
>>1170284
how do you sleep in it when its 'parked' like that
>>
>>1170326
normaly they stand perpendicular
>>
>>1170047
>Dutch boats like this in the picture are able to get parked on the beach.
>this means you can place your house anywhere you want. the ultimative freedom!

Only there are laws in place that make you only park in designated areas/waters.
>>
>>1170336
And laws that say beached vessels abandoned for 24 hours are fair game.

Yea come "park" on my beach OP. The local govt will literally pay me to steal your boat then give me a salvage title.
>>
>>1170358
>abandoned for 24 hours are fair game.
Lol no
>>
HALLO SEBASTIAN
>>
>>1170047
why don't you try sailing one of those to franz Joseph land and tell us how it goes
>>
>>1170152
>he fell for the “certain foods can make you gay” meme
How dumb can you get?
>>
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i can't sail for shit. Id probably be out there drowning
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>>1170572
Was it your uncle that made you gay?
>>
>>1170278
You're going to die out there.
>>
>>1170047
I already claimed it.

NOW, STAY THE FUCK OUTTA MY YARD!
>>
>>1170089
Or a plane.
>>
Watch; fucking crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQMd4awJ6A8
>>
multihulls are great boats in general.

>faster than monos
>lays flatter in the water
>additional storage in the amas
>trampoline between amas and main hull which allows for more space and the possibility of putting up a tent.
>shallow draft makes it possible to sail on to a beach
>shallow draft also means you don't have to worry about getting stuck in shallow waters
>so light you don't have to worry about not being capable of handling it when beaching

great boats in general, on the expensive side tho.

Also, get a boat in fiberglass instead.
wood and steel is a bitch to maintain.
>>
>>1170648
t. Muto
>>
>>1170278
u gon die fool
>>
>>1170358
Lol are you living in somalia or something?
>>
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>>1170674
why should I?
there are plenty of people that have done it this way before and succeeded
>>
>>1170648

>faster than monos
speed isn't really a point on a sailing boat.
its not much difference wether you sail with 6 or 7 knots. Depends on wind anyways
>lays flatter in the water
the boats i post have a wide of 3m , that allows them to have a really low shallow draft, only like half a meter
>additional storage in the amas
my mono is much huger because of 3m wide
>trampoline between amas and main hull which allows for more space and the possibility of putting up a tent.
who puts a tent on the ocean, srsly?
>shallow draft makes it possible to sail on to a beach
dutch boats have shallow draft aswell
>shallow draft also means you don't have to worry about getting stuck in shallow waters
I know
>so light you don't have to worry about not being capable of handling it when beaching
my boat is so heavy I dont have to be afraid of a tide putting my boat on the wide ocean

Also, get a boat in fiberglass instead.
wood and steel is a bitch to maintain.

Yes steal boats make a little more work but they are much more stable (don't be afraid of touching a rock etc)
>>
>>1171130

>its not much difference wether you sail with 6 or 7 knots. Depends on wind anyways

there's a difference from 6-7 knots and 15+, most cruising multis can run on sails in winds where most monos would have to utilize the engine.
people are reaching 20 knots in good wind with a cruising rig as well.
racing rigged trimarans can reach 30+ knots.

speed isn't meaningless, unless you have a romanticised view on what it's like to sail

>the boats i post have a wide of 3m , that allows them to have a really low shallow draft, only like half a meter

dutch boats/barges/Lemsteraak usually have a draft of 1m +/-, and i have yet to see one with sub 70cm draft, even for those below 30ft.
also 3m wide means nothing unless we're talking about very short and stubby boats.
trimarans

>my mono is much huger because of 3m wide

an equal length trimaran is going to have an equal size, or close to, main-hull, the amas are for stabilisation instead of a weighted keel, and doubles as storage space.

>who puts a tent on the ocean, srsly?

specialised tents for the trampolines/the boat.
it's more a leisure thing for sleeping outside in the summers or have some weather shelter when anchored/beached.
some like it, some don't.

>dutch boats have shallow draft aswell

again, no where as close to the drafts as multihulls.

>my boat is so heavy I dont have to be afraid of a tide putting my boat on the wide ocean

It's called an anchor.
if your boat isn't lifted by the tide, then you're beached for good, and need assistance to be pulled in to water where it can sail again, especially with a heavy steel boat.

>Yes steal boats make a little more work but they are much more stable (don't be afraid of touching a rock etc)
a little more work is an understatement. the keel paint/enamel needs to be inspected/maintained annually, and rust is a neverending issue.

1/2
>>
>>1171130

2/2


regarding stability: a flatbottomed sailboat is not going to be more stable, as it lacks amas, or a weighted keel to counteract the lateral forces created by the sails, so it is going to have a heavy lean when sailing in general, also making it more prone to capsizing than a monohull with a weighted/fin keel.

Apart from that, if you're hitting ROCKS in the first place, even if you're at the chance of hitting rocks, then you're doing something very, very wrong.


don't get me wrong, dutch barges are great, especially for houseboat conversions, but they are not exactly the most amazing sailboats out there.
mono/multi hulls are two different beasts, and it's in general hard to say which is better, because they both come with pros and cons.

i sail a Dufour 425 normally, but i have had much more enjoyment and comfort in general sailing multihulls.
>>
>>1170047

>doing blue ocean sailing without any experience IN A BARGE

yeah, that's not going to end well.
you're going to need a whole fucktonne of training to get some essential qualifications.

for starters, these types of boats are coastal and inland boats.
second of all, they handle like shit in strong winds and currents.

doing ocean crossings in it, especially without any prior experiences or qualifications, is asinine.
>>1170278

>But steel boats like pic related would even survive cliff crashs.

no, no they wouldn't. they might survive scraping, but not even a steel-hulled sailboat boat is going to survival an actual crash.
it's not made of immensely thick metal.

These ships are not sea-worthy, and nobody in their right mind is going to pay to sail with an inexperienced captain, in a unfit vessel (at least unfit for anything than cruising around Europe).

getting people to pay for anything but basic costs such as food and habour fees for crewing your ship is going to be hard.

They are great living boats, but for the love of gods sake don't take a barge out in to the oceans, invest in a proper ocean cruiser for that.
>>
Not OP but if I wanted to get a job as a crew member on a larger boat how would I go about doing that? I have a little experience with boats in coastal waters.
>>
>>1170170
>that image
Italy is so fucking beautiful it's not even funny.
>>
>>1171258

Look in to tall ships, there's quite a bunch out there that brings in volunteer crews every voyage.
>>
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>>1171259
dude my honeymoon is next june next spring and my lady and i each pickd one place we want to spend a week (i picked corisca). At first i was kind bummed when she picked tuscany but then she started showing me places she wanted to do day trips to (one of them being pic related and only accessible by foot) and now im actually pretty hyped
>>
>>1171263
Thanks anon :)
>>
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>>1170572
>he didn't fall for the soy protein meme
>tfw you have bitchtits cause no one told you about plant based estrogens before you started lifting
>>
>>1171263
Dont you have to pay to volunteer?
Is it possible to be part of the actual crew as a real job?
>>
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>>1170064
>>1170278
This has to be bait right?
>>
>>1171499
This is no fckn bait.

Just have a look at this guy.
His boat is called 'possibilities' and he is crossing the oceans since 6 years in this tub.
So why shouldn't it wrk with a bargel?
>>
>>1171667
The boat pictured is not a barge, it's a ship designed to sail open waters, it has a keel.

Barges, dutch in specific is designed for cruising a long the coasts in the north sea, the wadden sea to be specific.
World tours is possible in small suitable boats.

It has a flat bottom, no counterweight etc. Which means that it handles like shit in moderate to high winds and currents.
This also means that its at constant risks of capsizing when sailing on oceans with large waves and moderate winds.

Other than that, barges like these can't be "parked" on a beach. They are parked at coasts during low tides (see wadden sea).
They are too heavy to pull off a beach without a tugboat/help.

Also your plan about "taking it slow, sailing mainsail only" is not an option when crossing the atlantic, as you have to worry about trash and human waste (a lot of boats cant dump their septic tank).
Sailing blue oceans is a 24hr task, unless you take it along the northern coasts, which sets even more strict requirements.

Speed and a crew is important for these crossings.

The amount of sailing barges that have done a world tour can probably be counted on four hands. all have been very experienced sailors.
There's a reason you don't see or hear about barges world touring.

If you want to sail the larger oceans as an inexperienced sailor, get a safe and easy to use boat thats suitable for the task.

Do you want a boat thats nice to live in and cruise about the european coasts, go ahead get a barge.

But you're overestimating what you're capable of learning from books, and heavily over-romanticising it all.
This has "into the wild" level romanticising and outcome written all over it.

Learn to sail properly and get some experience before you start doing big shit.

A world tour/atlantic crossing is not something you do spontaneously, its something thats well planned, years ahead most of the time.
>>
>>1170075
If you eat fish eyes raw, they have vitamin C
Cooking destroys it though
>>
>>1171667
Also where are you going to watch the weather forecast for "dipshit nomansland in the ocean"?

If a tad bigger/different boat is out of your budget, so is important things like barometer, plotters, freshwater/desalination plants, weather station, sattelite uplink and SAR services, long range radio communications.

Better start learning how to read nautical maps (and pay for them) and how to use a sextant.
>>
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>>1171276
>frogposter
Fuck off to /pol/
Maybe they believe your shit
>>
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>>1170047
>Dad's best friend recently bought a 45-foot cutter
>have an open invitation to sail with him all summer
>He's in the NYYC and his father in law was yachting royalty so they plan on introducing me to tons of people in Newport

>Sister's best friend invited me on her dad's boat for their annual trip to Maine
>she's fucking lusted after me since middle school and we've hooked up a couple of times in college

Gonna be a real great summer, lads. I can fucking feel it.
>>
>>1172023
just cause you dont believe something dont mean it aint true
>>
>>1171452
>Is it possible to be part of the actual crew as a real job?
Yes. You have to know the captain though, or at least know someone who knows him. I crewed on a schooner over the summer because my uncle's old first mate is buddies with the owner/skipper of said schooner.
>>
>>1170047
Do NOT try to cross an ocean in one of those boats.

Take some sailing classes, get a VHF Radio License and an International Certificate of Competence. Additional navigation-
and weather reading courses never hurt. Once you have those things, it should be easy to find a boat to crew on where you can gain more vital experience. It's also a great way to "test" out different boats (cats, tris, monos, fin keeled vs long keeled, performance cruisers vs slower alternatives) to help you decide what you want to buy. There are loads of websites for this; findacrew.net and cruisersforum.com are some of the most popular I think. Cruisersforum also has many topics about boat selection and a wealth of knowledge from people who have been doing this for years, it's a great place to gather information.

If you buy a 9m sailing barge and set out into the ocean you will either 1) die or 2) cost other people a shitload of money when they are forced to come rescue you. The shortest possible distance you'll have to cover to cross the Atlantic, assuming you even make it down to Cape Verde, is going to be around 4000 km's after taking things like drifting/currents and uncooperative wind into account. If you're sailing singlehanded you're looking at a 20-25 day passage, sailing non-stop.

I cannot stress enough how terrible of an idea it is. Please don't do it, if not for your own safety then for the sake of other sailors who have to deal with more time-consuming and annoying laws and bureaucracy for every person who thinks sailing is a walk in the park. Don't get me wrong, sailing is absolutely amazing, but ocean sailing is completely unforgiving.

I'll recommend some boats in another post.
>>
>>1174454
Continued.

I don't know what kind of budget you're working with OP, but I'm going to assume it's relatively small. Nevertheless I'll do my best to recommend a few makes and models of boats for bluewater cruising on a budget.

Starting off at the really cheap end of the spectrum we have the Morgan 34, an old but solid design. In the 60s and early 70s boat builders were very liberal with their application of fiberglass, so these older boats are often fairly strongly built. This particular one seems to have been kept up to date with fairly modern electronics and conveniences which is always a good sign.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/Morgan-34-Sloop-3126065/Indian-Harbor-Beach/FL/United-States

Moving up slightly in the price range we find boats like this Pearson 35 Sloop. It's newer than the Morgan but slightly more expensive. Again, this one was apparently lived on and it shows. It doesn't look neglected and the systems look fairly modern. Pearson built some fantastic boats back in the day and loads of these have crossed oceans on their own bottoms.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1972/Pearson-Sloop-2384055/Mystic/CT/United-States

This next boat is rather unique in that it isn't a sloop, which isn't as bad as you may think. For a singlehanded sailor having several smaller sails as opposed to two large ones means the rig is more easily handled by one person when it comes to hoisting and reefing. Just like the previous boats the Alberg 37 is solidly built but quite rare. Given that it had a 22 year production run, that must mean that 1) it was a great design and 2) people are holding onto them.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1972/Alberg-37-3117951/Buffalo/NY/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Alberg-37-Yawl-3138705/Sea-Bright/NJ/United-States
>>
>>1174552
Continued.


One of the highest budget boats is the Tartan 37, and for good reason. Designed by the legendary Sparkman & Stephens and with a fairly shallow draft it was immensely popular. Tartans have a reputation for being solidly built and they perform pretty well too. They have a loyal following and owners association too, which is great for getting answers to model-specific questions.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Tartan-37-3024097/Oriental/NC/United-States

For similar money you could get a bigger Pearson model. Again, beautifully constructed boat but the 367's (also known as the "36 Cutter") are quite rare. They have been sailed all over the world and also have a loyal following. The boat that it was based on, the 36, was very popular.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Pearson-367-Cutter-2672780/ME/United-States
>>
>>1174552
Ketches and yawls are such weird looking boats
>>
>>1175046
I agree, a sloop just looks more "right" somehow. Though a ketch might lack some outright performance over an equivalent sloop, i suspect that in real-life conditions they could very well be faster. With many more sail combinations/configurations to choose from they should be able to have an easier time getting an "optimal" amount of sail up for the conditions. They also have the ability to use the mizzen sail as a stabilizer at anchor, which I'm told greatly reduces the back-and-forth movement that sometimes plagues monohulls. I've only sailed on sloops but I'd love to try out a different rig some day.
>>
>>1170047
hayyy guise, how bout a bunch of us get cheap boats and meet up in the ocean and tie our boats together so then we can be stable on the ocean and start a /pol/ err i mean /x/ oops i mean /out/island nation! there definitely can't be any laws against it
>>
>>1174552
Another anon here but, coincidentally i work at the boatyard where http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1972/Alberg-37-3117951/Buffalo/NY/United-States is kept,
the boat is not very good desu, its got a main mast furler system so heavy that when stepping the mast it bends much more than it should be.
There's a lot of soft spots on the deck which need addressing, the old diesel (westerbeke 4108? i think) has had nothing but problems and really wasn't rebuilt at all just had new injectors and pumps and stuff.
Lastly i don't know about previous years but the owner left all of the sails up on the furler and the main over the winter this year, certainly not helping.

Iv'e heard that the seller just wants it gone, i think they have more boats and in its condition i bet it could easily go for under 10k, maybe much less too idk, the seller is pretty desperate.
>>
I'm planing a trip this summer and due to german laws I can't set up a tend outdoors without asking the land owner, which sucks. So I plan on building a raft that is big enough to set up a tent upon it, a 14 PS outboard engine (more then 14 PS would require a license), a possibility to store my stuff waterproof. I plan on driving on the "Elbe" river, not the ocean though. How retarded is this idea and do you have any tipps on the construction?
>>
>>1175328

it wouldnt be the stupidest thing to do.
Elben can have some strong currents though, so watch out for that.

as long as you keep youself fairly close to the coast, and stay on the eastern side of hamburg (e.g away from where it runs in to the ocean).

if you can get some cheap elements from floating-bridges and modify then slightly, they'll be prefectly good.
has a nice payload as well.
>>
>>1175445
yeah, I was planing to drive from Hamburg towards Lüchow/Dannenberg, after checking the local laws I've noticed that I can't legally camp on my own raft either, so I'll have to visit an official campsite unfortunately, which makes the trip quite boring and as a student I can't risk a 500€ fine.
>>
>>1175300
Cool, thanks for the input!

I should have said in the last post that whenever buying an old boat it's EXTREMELY important to hire a professional surveyor to look it over. Many of these old boats used sandwich constructions in their decks, and they used balsa wood as the core material. It's great as long as it stays dry, but if water gets in it will start rotting, leading to soft spots and compromising the structure like the other anon said.

I would personally recommend getting separate surveyors for engine/electrical and rigging/hull, but there are those who do everything too, though sometimes they aren't as good as the more "focused" ones, and could miss things. It's an extremely important thing to do and could very well work in your favor when it comes to negotiating price.
>>
>>1173550
Lucky fucker
>>
>>1174454
Doesn't ocean sailing like that take years of experience?
>>
>>1178633
I would absolutely recommend having years of experience before going out onto an ocean. That's why crewing on other vessels is such a great idea; if you want to you can learn so, so much from the captains and the other crew on those boats, things that would take you years to learn "on your own" so to speak.

That being said, crossing the Atlantic can be ~10 knots of wind on the stern with pretty much no squalls the entire way across, in which case anyone can do it, or it can be storms, several squalls a day, high wind, high seas etc in which case it takes years of sailing experience and almost superhuman stamina to pull through it. That's one of the reasons you can happen upon "ghost ships" just drifting around out there; the crew caved in before the boat did and abandoned ship, requiring rescue.

Sailing is much more than just hoisting some canvas and sitting back. You have to know your vessel well enough to reef (take down/reduce sail area) in time, you have to have some meteorological skills so that you can read incoming weather from the way it looks in the sky or on your radar. You have to be mechanically adept to a certain degree so that you can fix the things that may go wrong or break on your boat while you're potentially 1500 or 2000 km away from the nearest other people. You need to have skills in problem solving; what do you do if the main halyard gets jammed in the top of the mast when you're half way across the ocean? What do you do if sea water leaks into your freshwater or fuel tanks?

These things may sound like small problems but in the vast majority of cases, when a ship is lost at sea, it's because of a series of small problems that amount to big trouble, as opposed to one really big problem. When the crew either lacks the knowledge or are simply too exhausted to repair or work around small issues, they can start adding up very quickly.
>>
>>1179245
Again, it sounds like I'm trying to scare people off sailing but I'm really not. There are lots of wonderful stories about people buying boats with no prior experience and just setting off into the sunset. The extremely popular youtube channel Sailing La Vagabonde promotes this kind of behavior and it's all lovely, and if you manage to do it under perfect circumstances then I'm sure it'll be just fine and you can learn as you go. However, if your circumstances while sailing are less than ideal things can go south very quickly. One of their Pacific crossing videos highlighted this very well I think, where the girl in the couple was so exhausted she was just lying in bed sobbing her eyes out due to lack of sleep and physical exhaustion. You might say "That won't happen to me, I'm way stronger", but I'd urge you to reconsider that because single handed sailing is no joke.

Sailing is wonderful but even coastal cruising can be dangerous; accidental gybes where a crewmember gets knocked overboard aren't that rare. If you're alone on board sailing under autopilot, or have a very balanced boat, then you're a dead man. Ocean crossings are worse because you're much further from rescue, you're much more exhausted and you're out there for much longer.
>>
>>1174552
What sort of boat would you recommend for ocean sailing if budget is not a problem
>>
>>1179343
Hmm, pretty difficult question actually.

I've had my eye on Chris White catamarans for a long time. They aren't very pretty but they seem to be extremely well designed, well built at a reputable shipyard and fairly potent performance-wise in the right hands. Many of the design choices make a lot of sense; the forward cockpit means you never have to climb up and forward to do any sail handling and good visibility in a 200+ degree radius forward and to the sides. The inside helm position dramatically cuts down on fatigue/exhaustion in adverse conditions, while maintaining much of the visibility offered by the cockpit. It's fairly light for what it is and cats are very easy to manoeuvre due to having two widely spaced engines.

The famous Gunboat catamarans use forward cockpits as well, but they are extremely luxurious and have a lot of push-button features, which means they need to carry enough fuel to power all those systems for a while. The result of these things is that Gunboats are extremely heavy, so in order to go as fast as they do they need ludicrously large rigs. This is fine if the boat is sailed with a crew, as the vast majority of Gunboats are, but for single handed sailing I suspect it's a bit of a nightmare.

Of the Chris White catamarans there is a 57 foot version which looks absolutely fantastic, albeit quite large for a single person (but there's a lot of space to entertain friends or family), or a 47 foot version which is a bit more modest and reasonable, but features a new type of rig designed by Chris White which I know nothing about. It could be amazing or it could be a deathtrap. Needs more time to mature I think.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2010/Chris-White-Designs-Atlantic-57-3127133/FL/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2013/Chris-White-Designs-Atlantic-47-3012878/Canada
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>>1179536
Guess the captcha ate the pic
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>>1179536
If I were limited to monohulls I would probably choose something like a new Amel 50 or 55. They're very well regarded boats in terms of build quality and design choices. Everything is laid out in a way that makes it (relatively) easily serviceable and materials are chosen more for their hard-wearing properties than their luxury appeal. At least that was my impression of the two older Amel designs I've been aboard. Either that or they had VERY fastidious owners. Amels make a lot of sense for a single handed sailor. Again, the helm position is very well protected and out of the weather, reducing fatigue. It also has tall, all-metal lifelines (the "fence" that goes around the boat) which is great if you need to go forward for whatever reason. You shouldn't, though, since all sail handling is done from the cockpit in an Amel. Most of them (the 50 included, I believe) feature things like big engine rooms for easy serviceability and watertight compartments to improve odds of survival should an accident of some kind occur.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2018/Amel-50-3150090/Sydney/Australia
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2016/Amel-55-3071179/GOCEK/Turkey

There are other very high-quality yachts out there. Hallberg-Rassy, Oyster, Swan, Contest and Discovery spring to mind. The few I've been aboard have seemed more luxury-oriented and less "serviceable" oriented, which is extremely important when you're out cruising. Many of them have sail handling focused around the mast base as opposed to the cockpit. Nonetheless, they're fantastic boats with "over-dimensioned" everything (rigs, hulls, keels, rudders, engines, electrics etc) which leads to very rugged and long-lasting vessels that will ride out storms and survive groundings to a much better degree than cheaper vessels will.
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>>1175328
If you think not being able to just squat on someone's property is a bad thing, just
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Ctrl+f sailing

Only thread made by some autist with completely unrealistic plans and expactations randomly obsessed with shitty steel sailing kayaks that have no place on the ocean. Several outists in the thread know their shit and enjoy sailing though, why are there hardly ever real sailing threads on out?
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>>1179735
Because they're on /n/ (occasionally, along with maritime general and a sporadic few other boat related threads.)
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>>1179735
Check /n/ which I thought was actually just /bike/. Ctrl+f sail. Nothing

Sailing seems like the perfect /out/ hobby. Can buy and own your own floating home to take you anywhere. It's like a water cabin.
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>>1179546
>790,000EUR boat

if I had the money, yeah. Looks fantastic
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>>1179536
That 57 looks really good. Thanks for the answer.
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>>1179538
Okay, so how well do these vessels go to windward; how high can they point?
Or are we looking for speed to overcome this problem of needing to tack more and take longer tacks?
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>>1170047
>crossing the atlantic on a Zeeschouw.

This is not possible. You are gonna capsize
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>>1180058
It varies from catamaran to catamaran; total weight, drag in the water, mini-keels vs daggerboards, weight aloft and so on.

The Chris White designs typically use very small mini-keels, mainly to protect the props and rudders by being the "lowest point" of the hull while causing minimal drag, in combination with daggerboards that can be deployed to reduce leeway when sailing upwind. Catamarans with daggerboards can usually point as high as monohulls, in some cases even higher, but as you suggested their outright speed means that usually their VMG ("velocity made good", e.g. how quickly you're actually moving towards your destination) is increased if they purposely don't point as high as they are capable of.
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>>1180861
For anyone wondering about mini-keels vs daggerboards, I put together this picture to explain the difference. The upper catamaran has a regular cruising mini-keel. Great for cruising since you never have to think about changing them in any way; they're just there. They also provide protection for the propeller and rudder behind them. The downsides are that they are always there so for example when sailing downwind you can't retract them to reduce drag, it's more surface that needs anti-fouling treatment and cats with mini-keels don't point as high as those with daggerboards.

The middle pictures feature Chris Whites solution to this; a sort of hybrid with much smaller mini-keels to reduce drag while still providing protection for the prop and rudder, and to make the boat sail well to windward it has daggerboards that come out through the keels for extra "grip" in the water when needed.

The last picture features a Gunboat 66 with daggerboards only; the orange thing poking out of the otherwise black hull. The upside to this is that the boards can be deployed only when needed, the rest of the time they're pulled up and don't cause any drag at all. The downside is that it's one more thing to think about while sailing and also one more thing that could go wrong. Unless you sail with them slightly deployed, there's no protection for the prop and rudder seen further aft.
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>>1180880
The only drawback to cats and tris for ocean crossings is that if you get flipped you stay flipped. Even with a deployable float at the masthead you're still on your side. One would need some way to shift water weight into one hull to help with righting.
I seem to remember one guy that flipped in a Jim Brown design tri; he lived in the center hull for quite some time before he was rescued.
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>>1181468
That's very true, when sailing cats and tris you can't exceed giving it 100%. The Gunboat in that picture is probably giving it around 98%, flying a hull in a cat that weighs 40,000 lbs is no joke. Thankfully they're professional sailors and they haven't flipped it (yet).

When sailing a cat or a tri single handed you probably sail it around 70% during the day depending on comfort, and below 50% of its capacity at night; I'd hazard a guess at 30% or so. That way, even if you're hit by a squall while you're sleeping or otherwise engaged, you won't have an unmanageable amount of sail up in the adverse conditions.
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>>1181468
Here's an interesting article about heavy weather and multihulls:
https://www.sailmagazine.com/multihulls/heavy-weather-strategies-when-sailing-a-catamaran
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>>1181481
Anyone who is singlehanding that doesn't reduce sail at night deserves what they may get.
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>>1181486
That's true. I was trying to emphasize that it would be wise to reduce sail even more on a catamaran than you would on a monohull
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>>1181468
If you flip over a trimaran (not those heavy ass luxury trimarans) in the first place you fucked up big time.

Realistically the only way to flip over a good trimaran is pitch-holing or or having the spinnakker hit water and drag you down.

While it is true that they're harder to flip, you still have to almost do it on purpose for it to happen (cruising trims, not racing)
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>>1181608
>having the spinnakker hit water and drag you down
Doesn't that just result in a pitchpole anyway?
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>>1179735
>why are there hardly ever real sailing threads on out?
Price of buying a boat and the amount of time investment in the necessary skills. Going hiking is easy, learning how to sail, and sail well, is not
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>you will never own a Beneteau
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>>1170064
I hope you can breathe underwater
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>>1170648
>gust of wind blows a little too hard
flips over wont right itself
>big waves
flips over wont right itself
>get fiberglass wood and steel ashit
nope.jpg i mainly hate plastic boats because i hate working on them. the do still require effort to maintain. steel has amazing strength. wood is just cozy and perfect.
get a real boat Opie, like pic related. colin archer style. lots of boats like this for a reason. very seaworthy and comfortable. forget about parking on the beach. you wont do it as much as you think. just drop anchor like any normal boater would do.
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So if I wanted to seriously start looking at living on a boat, starting from nothing, what should I do?
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>>1181814
>wood is just cozy and perfect.
And perpetually leaks, unless you coat it in fiberglass. In which case you might as well get a fiberglass boat to begin with.
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>>1181693
Doubtful you would fly a spinnaker singlehanding, very doubtful.
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Anyone ever slept in a skipper cabin? Bigger boats will sometimes put one in place of the sail locker at the bow
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>>1181819
Acquire a substantial amount of money.
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>>1181819
Probably look up marinas in the area where you'd want to moor your future home and check their mooring fees. Check what kind of amenities they offer - wifi? bathrooms/showers (and if so, do you live in a climate where it's reasonably comfortable to use them year round?) and so on. Any amenities you need that aren't available in the marina or that aren't realistic to use for you need to be on your boat. Want to shower often or in the comfort of your own home? Get a boat with a dedicated shower space. Want internet all the time but there's no wifi? Look into what mobile data plans cost.

Do a substantial calculation and try to think of everything you do/use in normal life and how to get them on the boat. Add all the costs up and see if you're 1) able to pay them and 2) willing to pay them. Many live-aboards claim it's cheaper to live on a boat than to own or rent a house or an apartment, but their standard of living might be below what you're willing to accept. It's a difficult question that only you can answer.

Once you know of one or two marinas and what amenities they offer, what size slips they have and what kind of fees they charge you can start looking at boats suitable for your needs and your budget.
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>>1171130
>a wide of 3m
>3m wide
If you actually want to be /boat/, learn nautical English. Width = beam
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>>1181918
I mean, I’ve literally never been on anything except a pontoon party boat. I don’t know the first thing about boats.
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>>1181819
>>1181914
> Acquire a substantial amount of money
Liveaboard here, that's HORSE SHIT.
You can get an O'day 27' for fuckin 1300 and live happy as any other guy in the place.
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>>1181955
Go on some sailing trips on Meetup or something, if you get all giddy being on the boat keep it up and see what's for sale around on craigslist for under 3k. Look up the boat on Sailboatdata.com and go check it out look for a mid 70's rig with a blackwater tank, functional head, operational lighting and bilge-pump, good standing rigging, seacocks in good condition, no blisters/running cracks in the hull and no separation between the bulkheads. All that and you're on the right path. Stomp around on the boat, wiggle stuff, obviously broken shit will be obviously broken.
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>>1173550
I am jelly
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>>1181694
People don't seem to panic so much when someone spends that kind of money on a 4wd though. Lot of people are afraid of the unknown.

Of course it costs money like everything but it's not just for rich people.
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>>1181967
>O'day 27
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Why don't you get a viking ship while you're at it.
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>>1181693
if you lose wind too quickly and can't respond quickly enough, you can risk it hitting and taking on water.

Most pitcholing incidents on trims happen because you are running a spinakker and comes off a wave too fast and crashes in to the wall or the next wave.

but all given, i have never trimaran capsize of flip over outside of racing conditions with oversized rigs.

>>1181814
if you genuinely think that a trimaran, other than very specific racing build and rigs flip over in hard wind or big waves easily, then you for sure have never seen a cruising trimaran in your life.

A mono, even with weighted keel are not going to right itself if it capsizes or the mainsail takes in water.
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>>1181845
yeah, pretty much.
but a genakker can be used instead though.
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>>1181823
They dont perpetually leak unless they are shit. Even if they do leak a little its so minor as to not be a concern.
>putting glass on a wood boat.... ever.....
Just no. Only legit reason is to bypass coast guard regs on comercial boats. They get inspected as a glass boat instead of as a wood boat. Much less of a hassle. Otherwise just fix it right.
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>>1182326
>Monohulls can't right after capsizing.
You need to read Fastnet Force Ten by John Rousmaniere.

Tri's do flip on occasion:
https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/call-out-to-rescue-crew-after-trimaran-flips-near-/2901556/

https://www.yachtingmagazine.com/119-days-upside-down
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>>1182173
What you got against an o'day
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>>1182495
OP wants to cross the Atlantic.
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>>1182360
if the mono is lying on it's roof, it's not going to right itself, especially not if a sail is raised.
they are easier to flip over, without a doubt, and it can right itself if it's on the side, but not on its roof.

Trimarans do flip on occassion, but in almost every case it's a ''fault 40'', e.g user error.
this happens with with monos as well

and one of the articles you linked was because of a structural failure of an ama snapping off.
in the second they were sailing parallel to a large wave.

But in all reality, mono or multihull, if we're talking about cruising designed- and rigged boats, you really have to do some stupid shit to capsize in the first place.
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>>1170047
>the ultimative freedom!
you get wifi out there or what
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>>1182816
sure you can.
for low price of 1000USD/month for a 2.4kbps connection with 1gb of data, and 0,65USD per megabyte you use when the stock data is used and you only have to invest 5000USD receiver!
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Like getting caught in a storm mid ocean?
>But in all reality, mono or multihull, if we're talking about cruising designed- and rigged boats, you really have to do some stupid shit to capsize in the first place>>1182812
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>>1182812
Anon, please do a GIS for fastnet race 1979.
How do you think this vessel became dismasted?
Remember OP wants to transit the Atlantic, not just cruise coastally.
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>>1182604
That guy was replying to someone who wanted to become a liveaboard. An O'day is a great boat for that.

>>1182812
I'm also a fan of multihulls but I'm not sure your statement is correct, I've never heard of a mono staying upside down unless it had a structural failure (the boat in the picture you attached looks to have damage to the keel, perhaps even a lost bulb).

>>1182873
With the launch of products like the Iridium GO! this is no longer true, but going back a few years it was this expensive, yes.

Now you just buy a little receiver for $800 or something like that, and either pay as you go or get an unlimited data plan for $125 per month. I think you're thinking of the old PACTOR modems that use the SSB radio to connect to the internet. Those were expensive as hell, yeah.
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>>1182812
>>1182926
I'll correct my statement here, I found a higher res version of your image and it looks like it's a temporary hazard light that has been attached to the keel.

Nevertheless, making broad statements about all monohulls and using a highly specialized design (pic related is the same boat, hardly a conventional hull) as your example doesn't really work. This thing is probably twice as wide as a conventional sailboat of this size.
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>>1182155
I know it's not just for rich people, but I think there's a lot more skills and knowledge required in sailing than there is in using a 4WD. My uncle did ocean races and delivered yachts for 30 years, and he's even said that he felt the most comfortable and knowledgeable with ocean sailing in his last 10. It takes a long fucking time to really get good at it.
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>>1182930
the boat in question is a 35ft racing-yacht and got a fairly common hull-type for such. it probably got a beam around 3.5-3.7 which is comparable to a cruising yacht (benetaeu for example) of the same size.

both have their pros and cons, both can be capsized, most monos will right them self a lot of the time, but it is not a self-given that they do, especially not if they did a 180 flip, a lot of factors start to come in to play at that point.


i sail a 40ft mono, and race as well, so it's not just a broad statement.
you generally just don't hear about it too often because they're piss-easy to turn over if they haven't taken in water.

But again, in general both for monos and multis, capsizing is almost exclusive to racing these days.
boats made for cruising are made for stability and safety, which is why it is a rarity outside of limit-pushing situations.
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>>1183304
ok correction, the boat in question is a Kiwi 35, and has a beam of 4m. so it is slightly above average for the size.
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>>1182926
The Iridium Unlimited* data plan for 125/mo only includes 150 minutes of data use or calls.

the one i was referring to is the Iridium Pilot which is a system that needs to be integrated in the boat.

All given, noticed they switched from data usage to minutes online instead.
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>>1182930
This is the boat in question actually, the large wings are hinged/detachable and can be removed.
beam W/O the wings are 2.5m
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>>1183304
>>1183319
Pic taken from http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Fatal-Kiwi-35s-probably-as-stable-upside-down-as-right-side-up/-86251

Which really just confirms that this kind of behavior from a mono is absolutely not the norm. It's around 4.3m wide, a Beneteau First 35 is 3.6m wide so it's not really comparable at all. Furthermore, the Kiwi 35 has reduced mass in the keel because crew sitting out on the wings is used for ballast instead. This makes it even less likely to flip back up once it goes over.

Again, I'm one of the biggest multihull fans you'll find out there but your statement really is a broad one and I'd challenge you to find another example of a monohull staying inverted barring those who have lost their keel like Rambler 100 did for example.
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>>1183315
>only includes 150 minutes of data use or calls.
Can you provide a source on that? All the places I look say 150 minutes of voice and unlimited data up/down.
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get a fucking epirb / ais beacon
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>>1183333
Capsize in Flensburg, had to be pulled to a habour as it didnt self-right.

All given not exactly a 180 flip but didn't self-right.

There's plenty of small news columns, and accessible logs from the national maritime rescue service of monos that have been towed to harbour because they didnt self-right. (not in english)

it happens, more often than people would actually guess, but they're just really bad in general at documenting it.
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>>1183333
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>>1183333
This boat is a danish boat that capsized in the atlantic leveled with canadas coast, took 15 hours for the SAR team to arrive.
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>>1183333
i am not trying to denounce monohulls, or glorify multihulls.
they're different beasts with their own pros, cons and issues.
but multihulls do not flip over or capsize ''with a gust that blows a little too hard'' or sailing a big wave as stated by (hopefully) someone else before.

Modern cruising yachts are, as stated before (mono or multi), near damned impossible to capsize in the first place, unless you race them or sail in outright dangerous situations.
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>>1183596
Of course they don't.
This doesn't even need to be said.
But
Transiting an ocean one cannot control the conditions one encounters and capsisings and pitchpoling can and does happen sometimes with all any hull configuration.
That being said consider this feat.
http://www.hokulea.com/voyage/2017-hawaii-homecoming/
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>>1183596
Yeah, you're right.
I've even read that "condomaran" (big cruising-oriented catamarans that sail very poorly) builders fit underdimensioned rigging to their boats to ensure that the mast comes down before the catamaran capsizes.
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Sure is a lot of talk about fucking capsizing yachts in here.
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>>1182812
You have no clue what you're talking about. The momentum of the keel ballast rocking is enough to ensure quick self righting of most oceanworthy mono-hulls ie. long distance cruising boats.

High performance mono-hull open ocean racers with bulb/swinging/multi keels are completely different in design and purpose than most ocean-doing mono's.
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>>1183589
You fucking retard. it didn't self right because it got swamped while over-heeling. Strangely, that is yet another characteristic not shared by most ocean-worthy mono's.
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>>1170047
I can't swim.
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>>1184916
Ability to swim makes little to no difference on a solo atlantic crossing. If you end up in the water you're as good as dead.
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>>1184892
Finally someone else who gets it.
https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/understanding-intact-damage-stability-of-ships/




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