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Is carrying a weapon in known bear/wolf country being too paranoid? Having an argument and I’m saying it’s totally legit logic to carry. What say you?
>>
>bear
what type of bear?
>wolf
depends on how prevalent they are.
>>
Op here

Hiking northern Wisconsin along Lake Superior. Black bear. All over fuck.

Gray wolves around. I’m more concerned with wolves and cougars than bears.
>>
Sorry it gets to this, but anymore if you're in the back country and don't carry for self defense it's not smart. This includes homo sapiens...
>>
>>1202504
not sure about the wolves, but black bear and cougars are a non-issue unless you're solo and <5'5"
>>
>>1202506
No manlet here. 6’0” 240lbs so we’re good there. It’s gonna be probably 4 or 5 Max in the party. Three guys who don’t know anything about firearms. Wife and I.
>>
>>1202505
Humans are far more dangerous than wolves or bears ever will be if you have an ounce of common sense.
>>
>>1202505
What are you getting at? Potential defense against other people?
>>
>>1202512
So sidearm and a long gun. Done deal
>>
>>1202513
You must be stupid, yes that's what
>>
>>1202531
A little. Still try to trust people. No reason to anymore. Everyone’s fucking nuts.
>>
>>1202499
It's fine.
you're not likely to need it but whatever. Insurance.

realistically you're far more likely to be killed by a tick or mosquito, but those deaths aren't quite as horrifying.
>>
>>1202499
I almost always carry a sidearm when I'm /out/. I carry normally, so I don't see a reason why I wouldn't carry one outdoors. You're far more likely to be hurt by another human while /out/ than by bears or wolves. Carrying is a good practice to keep because you never know what can happen, but actually needing to use it is very very rare, so I wouldn't exactly call it a necessity.
>>
>>1202513
Yes unfortunately. Too many crazies about anymore. Just look at the news. If you can't walk down the street in a major metro area, no way to be safe anywhere. Better safe than dead.
>>
>>1202538
That’s where my heads at. Better to have it and never need it than need it and not have it.
>>
If there's bears bring bear spray. Humans or wolves bring a handgun.
>>
>>1202506
>not being concerned about cougars
Ishygddt
>>
>>1202573
t. has never done any research
>>
>>1202499
A handgun is a light carry and can keep nearly any predator from fucking with you if you're solo camping.
>>
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>>1202499
Only if it is a Really fucking big handgun.
>>
>>1202499
>too paranoid

Why would it be paranoid? Carrying a way of making lots of noise, carry bear spray, and carry a proper firearm for those species you want to defend yourself against. Most importantly, bring a friend.
>>
>>1202539
>Just look at the news
You mean the people that make money by trying to scare people? US violent crime rate is way down from where it was at in the 80's. And if you start looking at big picture data over the centuries, the trend is pretty consistently downward: https://ourworldindata.org/homicides
>>
>>1202499

it's just heavy. look up some youtube videos of bear spray. and wolves? where the fuck do you live that human beings are killed by wolves?
>>
>>1202627
I have that
>>
>>1202499
i carry because jackasses decide to unleash their shitty aggressive dogs

i've been seconds away from drawing my weapon on an aggressive dog more times than i can count

people don't realize how much danger they put their aggressive dogs in when they (illegally) unleash them
>>
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>>1202627
My gf carries Super Redhawk.
>>
>>1202686
Are you really that worried of being fatally attacked by a dog? The worst that happens is it bites you and then you get to sue.
>>
>>1202692
>being this new
it's a maymay, dipshit.
>>
>>1202695
Sorry
>>
>>1202692

>when you/other hikers have kids

and besides, fuck kike lawyers
>>
>>1202701
There were only 25 fatal dog attacks recorded in the US last year. That's like death by lightning tier odds. And a bunch of them were dogs attacking their own owners anyways.
>>
>>1202706

enjoy your non-fatal attacks, faggot
>>
>>1202709
If I'm not dead who cares? I get money.
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>>1202706
>two a month
Pic related.
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>>1202711
>>
>>1202713
I don't really care about shooting aggresive dogs. I just think it's kind of silly to be worried about that when you're more likely to be killed by an aggresive human.
>>
>>1202717

guns don't differentiate between targets
>>
>>1202717
>aggressive dog
>aggressive human
I make no distinction. I still have 3 more rnds in the cylinder and two 5rnd speed loaders. What now?
>>
>>1202499
For peace of mind, yeah it's not a bad idea. Odds are if you're making enough noise bears will GTFO before they even see you though. Wolves will usually be freaked out by how tall you are, unless they're wolf-dogs which have genes from domestic dogs. Then they're hardwired to be more comfortable coming around humans.

A decent knife is enough to defend yourself against most wild animal attacks however, but if you're more comfortable with a sidearm then by all means, it's up to you.
>>
>>1202720
I know, I'm not arguing against carrying. I'm saying that if you're main reason to carry is fear of dog attacks then you have your priorities mixed up.
>>
>>1202499
no. you should always carry in the woods period. don't let these other leftist faggots tell you otherwise
>>
>>1202733
I'd take it one step farther: you should always carry. Period. I believe the "weapons free zone" signs on schools should be replaced with "teachers carry heat" signs -- known presence of firearms is a good deterrent for those who would do evil. Evil men are generally cowards.
>>
>>1202510

You're a fat fuck
>>
>>1202755
>fat shaming on-line

You go, girl!
>>
>>1202762
>fat shaming
No wonder your friends are such pussies about guns.
>>
>>1202762
I'm 6ft 210lbs and I'm not afraid to tell myself that I need to eat better and exercise more after noticing my belly getting a bit round. Fuck off.
>>
>>1202499
You're here because your ancestors were "paranoid" enough to carry weapons while innawoods.
>>
>>1202499
Maybe in Siberia/Alaska/Kluane/Alberta Rockies.
Otherwise just bring bear spray and a bud.
>>
>>1202755
And you're a male supermodel, that's taking time off from a busy career to post on a Phillipino cave painting site.
>>
>>1202813
Oh, and add anywhere with Polar Bears to the list. But unless you're a hard-ass traditional Inuit or very experienced hunter, you probably can't beat a polar bear, even with a gun, if it's determined to eat you.
>>
>>1202755
Hide behind that keyboard nigger.
>>
>>1202755
LoL!

You gonna insult my wife next? Go for the hat trick faggot.
>>
>>1202539
>look at the news to see all the crazies.
Do you realize that national news highlights all the craziest shit which happens? You can't sample the news to represent the odds of crazy shit happening to you.
The vast majority of non-military violence occurs between people who know each other. There is a greater likelihood of an acquaintance murdering you than a stranger. So better just stay inside always then, right?
(Also, stop watching the news, it's literally just ruling class propaganda mixed in with usless clickbait stories.)
>>
>>1202871
Oh, she's a big whore!
>>
>>1202874
>national news
I signed up on PoliceOne news e-letter.

Story yesterday was black 23y/o femanon gouged her own eyeballs out and was holding them in her hands when popo arrived. She's stable in the hopsital onna respirator. Expected to survive.

I can see that...

>ruling class propaganda mixed in with usless clickbait stories.
So much is unreported/underreported, but the helo crash in GCNP made NBC. Mostly because the footage showed flames, I think.

They went /out/.
>>
>>1202897
4 you
>>
>>1202871
Pics?
>>
>>1202499

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
>>
>>1202909
Your woreout saw dismissed:
>2 is 1 & 1 is none

And you forgot:
>think outside the box

Everytime some poser fagot says that I tell him:
>if you're so good at it, why are you still using that mouldy old expression?

I just want to punch people that fall back on wornout memes instead of giving an actual example like:
>I saw a methhead hitch hiking and gave them a ride and they raped me

A great way to convince people that you are stupid, but makes for a better story!
>>
>>1202499
A peestol will not stop a pissed off charging bear
If anything, a retard with a pistol will cause the pissed off charge to begin with.
>>
>>1202874
Does the local newspaper from the county I grew up in count as being overblown? I fucking doubt it. Higher violent crime rate than Baltimore City. Serial arsonists burned down another occupied house last weekend, some guy told a nigger driving through his street to slow down and he got out of the car and smashed the old mans head into a circuit breaker 20 times until his skull fractured. It aint all roses man.
>>
>>1202919
>assuming
>>
>>1202922
>It aint all roses
It is thru rose colored glasses.

>t. biblical ref.
>>
>>1202915
You sound really insecure.

Like, your insecurity knob is cranked up to 11.
>>
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>>1202915
>if you're so good at it, why are you still using that mouldy old expression?
Do you have autism or something?
>>
>>1202505
Paranoia isn’t a healthy mental state anon
>>
>>1202510
Fatty fatty 2x4
Can’t get through the kitchen door
Fatty fatty 3x3
Tried to climb but blew out his knee
>>
>>1202919
That’s where this comes in. Setting up my rifle like this.
>>
>>1202953
Wow...
>>
>>1202951
>t. I cogitate external to the cube

Try harder.
>>
>>1202952
There's a difference between paranoia and caution.
>>
>>1202919
But that's demonstrably false.
>>
>>1202499
Knowledge is more important that weapons. It's better to know how to avoid dangerous situations in the first place. 95% of the time the animal would rather avoid you altogether and if you give it the opportunity to leave without making a fuss they'll be glad to fuck off and leave you alone.
That said, while it isn't really a big risk it also isn't a big inconvenience to carry something for self defense. I wouldn't bother most of the time while just backpacking through a trail, but if I was deep in the bush doing forestry work or something I'd rather have the extra protection.
I've heard some freaky stories about people getting stalked for hours on the way back to camp.
>>
>>1202499
Not necessarily paranoid depending on where you are, but also probably not necessary and for bears in particular bear spray is objectively a better option. I'd worry more about mountain lions than anything else and there really isn't fuck-all you can do to pre-empt getting attacked by one of those and by the time you notice it you won't have enough time to draw anything.

If you're dealing with black bear and want to carry then go with buffalo bore .357 and if you're dealing with brown bear then move up to buffalo bore .44.
>>
>>1202990
Which is the difference between carrying bear spray and carrying a gun when you aren’t hunting
>>
>>1203201
Bear spray can be rendered useless mild wind, close to freezing temps, being older than a year or so, light foliage, rain, fog, heavy humidity, or if all those things dont exist in your perfect /out/ trip, its literally just pepper spray.

Something your white trash neighbors spray each other with for fun and go hard all night, while your kid would be incapacitated for days.

Same kinda shit with animals, might work, might just piss it off as evidenced by the several very public accounts of bear spray just doing nothing.
>>
>>1202499
>Is carrying a weapon in known bear/wolf country being too paranoid?
no

>What say you?
I don't say but others would recommend something like a 45/70
>>
>>1203223
This is patently false, mild wind isn't an issue with bear spray, you need some strong ass fucking wind. A gun versus a grizzly bear is just as useless in the hands of most people. The stress combined with a very small moving target is just too much for most people to handle. Bear spray has the added benefit of being usable if somebody is being attacked by a bear, with a gun you run the risk of shooting them.
>>
>>1203253
If the stress of the situation makes it so you cant point a gun, that same stress would make it so you cant point bear spray you mongoloid.

Theres no benefits to bear spray only drawbacks and half measures, the only bear that spray would stop is one that dosent care about you and is at best curious, saying bear spray would stop a bear in the process of attacking and eating someone has been proven wrong 2 times in the last year.
>>
>>1203253
What about the rest of what that anon said?
>close to freezing temps, being older than a year or so, light foliage, rain, fog, heavy humidity
All of those things and many others can decrease bear sprays effectiveness to zero.
>>
>>1203273
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpB7jrJ7Zds

Have you ever used bear spray or do you just feel like I'm attacking your firearms? There's this weird thing where people get hyperdefensive when people say guns aren't always superior to bear spray. It's not about pointing a gun, it's about pointing, aiming, and pulling the trigger enough times to neutralize the animal. Unless you're fucking Doc Holliday you aren't going to be able to hit an animal the size of a wolf, and probably won't be able to hit a bear square in the head.

>>1203280
>to zero
Yeah man this is wrong though, these circumstances shorten the effective distance, not cut it's effectiveness to zero. People use bear spray in places like Afognak and Prince of Wales Island without issue; again, this stems from people getting defensive over their guns. If you're going to be nitpicky, let's talk about lubricant freezing and locking up your handgun, or if you do wipe it down, condensation doing the same thing. How likely is this to happen? Pretty unlikely. It's the same thing with bear spray.

I'm not saying don't bring a handgun, I'm just saying in most situations bear spray is going to be more effective.
>>
>>1203313
Unless the animal just doesn't care of course.

My assertion is that any animal that would be driven off or stopped with bear spray was only posturing and a good yell would do the same.

At the end of the day it's a one shot deterrent that even if it works perfectly, it's still the animals decision whether to stay or go, evidenced by the people who are maimed or worse despite using bear spray.
>>
>>1202499

No. I backpack in the UP all the time and black bears are all over but pose no threat. There are barely any wolves around northern Wisconsin and the UP so stop larping.
>>
>>1203340
Where does this assertion come from? Does it come from an intuition or hard facts? Bear spray affects animals on a biological level, it fucks up their sense of smell and taste and disorients them. Yeah, a bullet is more effective if it works, because the animal dies, so I'm not arguing from an ethical point of view, I'm arguing it from a utilitarian one. Evidence is heavily in favor of bear spray being effective, so the evidence AGAINST it is minimal. I'll be proactive and refute an argument that hasn't been made yet by stating that I personally know people who have had close encounters with bears after shooting them with long guns, and have read articles about hunters being killed after shooting bears.

Unless it's a kill shit, guns enrage bears, whereas bear spray completely shuts their senses down. Running into a cloud of bear spray is like running into a brick wall.
>>
>>1203372
>My anecdotes trump your anecdotes!!!!

You can post the same shitty pro bear spray bs but it comes down to this

>Everything goes right while using a gun
>Bears dead or driven off

>Everything goes right with bear spray
>100% the wild animals decision on whether or not to kill you.

I'd rather not be the victim of a wild animals reasoning skills, if your not comfortable depending on your own skills in a life or death situation what are you doing here?
>>
>>1203372
>bear spray completely shuts their senses down. Running into a cloud of bear spray is like running into a brick wall.
No, just like any other kind of non lethal deterrent it varies from person to person and animal to animal.
There's a reason tasers and pepper spray are supplemental at best for police officers, because in the end it's up to the choices and physiology of the target.

There's no such thing as a non lethal one sized fits all deterrent.
>>
I carry a sidearm for handling tweakers. Too many stories of people getting robbed, raped, or murdered at camp. Also it's not unheard of to stumble on a drug operation around my area.
>>
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I'm not gonna be a victim of the mercy of some fucking bear or crackhead out in the woods and have to walk back bleeding to death if I even come out on top, no fucking way.
>>
>>1203376
Are you the same guy who told me bear spray has no benefits when I listed the benefits, then proceeded to call me a mong? You're just ignoring everything I say, you should probably just kill yourself.

>>1203380
Yeah I'll concede to that, it sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.
>>
>Study of bear incidents involving use of pepper spray in Alaska.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf

I don't disagree with the idea of carrying a gun. I think the most dangerous thing out there is humans. Other humans also carry guns. Not to mention even if you suck at aiming, loud bang bang is probably enough to scare off most living things.
However, statistics is statistics and bear spray seems pretty effective in most cases.
>>
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>>1203340
There are many cases of hunters being killed by bear, who were experienced in bear country, carrying firearms.

You act like people with bear spray are the only ones who still get killed.

Guns are effective about 85% of the time detering an aggressive bear.

Waving your hands and yelling is about the same level of effectiveness.
>>
>>1203462
>>1203464
This study dosent say any of that in fact the author goes out of his way to say you shouldn't make assumptions based on it since he had a limited data set, had to supplement with anecdotes and specifically says if he had more info he would have had different results.

Please stop posting misinfo.
>>
>>1203471
There aren't exactly a lot of cases of bear attacks to pull data from though. When the numbers are so low to begin with, even a few more instances of bear attacks with different results, obviously would dramatically change the data. I didn't dig very deep, but it seemed to be a competent study.

That being said, the few cases there are to pull from, like I said, seemed to indicate bear spear was to some degree effective.

If you can find different sources that point to a different conclusion, I would love to see it. The more data the better. Why not be constructive and show me why I'm wrong, instead of just saying "Not enough evidence not enough evidence!"
>>
Pic related happened to me. Someone screen capped it
>>
If you're going out alone and there are cougars, a gun would definitely be a good idea.
>>
>>1203480
>If you can find different sources that point to a different conclusion, I would love to see it. The more data the better. Why not be constructive and show me why I'm wrong, instead of just saying "Not enough evidence not enough evidence!"
That's not how it works you idiot, if I wrote a 3 page study about how it is 100% more efficient to shit while standing using 30 instances of me doing it and a few anecdotes of my buddies doing it and then handwaved anyone who says I'm fucking retarded because they didn't do a 4 page study saying it's better to poop while sitting, I'd be a gigantic retard, but that is literally the argument you are making.

The author goes out of his way to say his study isn't representative, his methods are mostly copy pasting old studies noone lent any credence to because of the garbage methods and that his main motivation is to save bear lives at the expense of safety.
>>
>>1203496
Damn dude, calm the fuck down.
At no point did I say Bear spray was better you fucking neanderthal. You might have noticed that if you learned how to read instead of going into a blood rage at anyone who isn't explicitly saying guns are god's gift to man and anyone who doesn't carry is a huge faggot /in/tard communist.
I don't even disagree with carrying a gun. I carry a gun. I'm not saying prove me wrong with hard evidence or bear spray is better than guns. I'm not even saying bear spray is better than guns.
I'm just saying, with what is available, that bear spray can be effective if you don't want to carry a firearm, or can't cause they live in a state or country with shitty firearm laws. The other guy was the one saying guns are worse.

Maybe don't get so defensive either when someone asks for evidence. I legitimately would love to see a good study that compares the two methods of defense. It makes you sound like a moron.
You can call out the problems with the study, that's fine. But a study having issues doesn't mean the findings are necessarily wrong and that the opposite point is necessarily correct. If you didn't take a position, I wouldn't be so bothered, but you go beyond saying a study doesn't present enough evidence, then take up the opposite position and provide nothing to back it up and then can't even see the hypocrisy of that.
>>
>>1202506
actually, a guy 20 miles from where I live had a black bear that got flooded from its den attack him and his dog a week ago. he survived be cause he knifed it's eyes or something, and I think his doggo is dead.
>>
>>1203493
If you mean sexy, older ladies, then yes, their bloodlust knows no bounds but a quick shot from a .44 to stop them cold in their tracks. Fatal Mountain Lion attacks on people are incredible rare, though. There have only been three recorded in North America since 2000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America#2000s

I would carry a gun for protection from other people before I would carry one for cougars, but that's just my 2 cents
>>
>>1202504
What up, wisconsin!

I have lived here my whole life and have hand probably about two dozen or so encounters with black bears. Every single one ended with the black bear running off and I never saw it come back. They are skittish and easy to intimidate. The only one I was worried about was a big bruiser of a male who wandered into my camp on the Ice Age Trail in Taylor County. He didn't give a fuck about me banging my pot as loud as possible, but when I hit him with a rock, he took off. That said, there are a shit load of them in Wisconsin these days. You probably won't need to shoot one; I imagine a .22 pistol would scare one off no problem whether or not you actually shot at it.
>>
Holy shit this idea that black bears are harmless really pisses me off! There are many documented cases of black bears attacking and killing humans. ‘Hurr durr there just like big raccoons yell and they’ll go away’ yeah tell that to the couple that sprayed a black bear in Algonquin Park with bear spray, it returned after a short period and killed them both.
>>
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>>1202959
Are you camping on Isla Nublar by any chance?

>>1202499
If you have or can get a gun then bring it. Fucking idiots will try to sound smart by throwing statistics in your face as a reason to call you paranoid. Carrying the gun is a minor inconvenience 999,999 times out of a million, but in the event you're faced with an aggressive animal vastly more powerful than yourself, at least you have a chance and for that security I'd happily carry the extra weight and put up with the shit people will talk.
>>
>>1203496
Do you own stock in gun companies or something? You seem quite upset.
>>
>>1203313
>Unless you're fucking Doc Holliday
There sure a quite a few Doc Holidays then.
>>
>>1202731

Spoken by someone who's never had to face more than one dog at once. They hunt in packs dipshit.
>>
>>1203496
One study is better than no study, even if the findings aren't 100% solid, you goddamn retard.
>>
>>1202499
>carrying for bears
>not carrying because of feral mountain people, skinwalkers, other large predators, drug farmers, sketchy fuckers, and because of mysterious disappearances

Totally right bro, don’t every carry a gun in the woods. It’s not dangerous at all out there, especially alone. I wouldn’t worry about it
>>
I carry a rifle whenever im innawoods
>>
>>1203763
No, in fact garbage evidence definitely is not better than no evidence, since it illustrates your own desires since you are putting it forth and defending its validity despite the lack thereof, not what is actually right.
>>
>>1203758
Literally every person to kill a bear with a firearm apparently doesn't exist which is weird since the vast majority of north america bears were driven to extinction or close to it.
>>
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eurofags can't carry any guns, so most of us make do with a hobbit tier self defense system, like pic related, and personally on longer trips I also take my homemade recurve
>>
>>1203992
(also forgot to mention pic is not mine and I hate rubber tips, lead filled tips or bare/burnt tips are where it's at)
>>
>>1203878
>>1203758
do you guys think before you hit the buttons on your keyboard? hunting bears is 10000% different than shooting AND killing a charging bear with a handgun, and you're fucking retarded if you think otherwise
>>
>>1204080
New person to the conversation. To play devil's advocate, OP never stated a handgun. Just said a weapon. What if it's a 308 rifle of some kind, or some other caliber that could easily put down a bear?
>>
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>>1204080
Your right anyone who carries a pistol for bears is retarded. That's why I don't carry a pistol for bears.
>>
>>1202754
yeah I'm down with that. tho I'd caution against the last sentiment. people can be evil, and if they do it long enough, they can be considered professionals at what they do. never underestimate an oponent or think lower of them. that'll get ya cornered real quick. be humble about your own abilities, but fight if you have to.
>>
>>1204086
308 is iffy for bears. I have a 308 bolt gun and I wouldn't go hunting for blackbears with it. let alone grizzlies if they were around. bigger rounds that travel a lot slower and hit a lot harder such as 45 70 are probably better for bears
>>
>>1204086
.308 is too small for bears, 45-70 or a .375 of some sort would be ideal IF you decided you wanted to lug around a rifle with you
>>
>>1204108
Last time I checked being a beta faggot who does stupid shit then complains about bans was a bannable offense.
>>
>>1203629
LoL. Sadly I felt like a giant chode buying it. Always wanted a .45-70 guide gun. Now that particular one is forever associated with Jurassic World. I’m good with it.
>>
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>>1204112
>last time I checked your a cuck
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>>1204113
.45-70 is a fun round, and will put down anything in north america, no matter what the antis in this thread think about firearms or just how incredibly difficult they are to use.
>>
>>1204080
>hunting bears is 10000% different than shooting AND killing a charging bear with a handgun, and you're fucking retarded if you think otherwise
Never said it wasn't, but people still manage do it fairly regularly. You can literally just google "bears stopped with a handgun" for examples. Quit being autistic. Yeah, hitting a fairly small target under duress isn't easy, but its not like the only guy who can do it is John Marston after he activates dead eye and tags the bear's forehead six times.
>>
>>1202510
I am a 5'9-10" bloke and I decked out boys your size. You should bring as mentioned a handgun and a rifle. I bring a handgun and a bow but unless you're well versed with bows bring a rifle.

Happy camping, don't let the wolves and bears bite.
>>
>>1203992
A shillelagh?! I got one of those, and speak for yourself I carry a heap out in the north.

t. finngolian
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>>1204132
>I am a 5'9-10" bloke
So 5'8".
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>>1203870
Doing research and having some kind of evidence to back up your position is objectively better than being some random guy on the internet with a strong opinion and nothing to back it up with.
>garbage evidence
The biggest thing he has going against his study is that there isn't a lot of recorded data on bear attacks. They're not common, they often happen in remote areas, people often don't survive, and when they do people are usually more concerned with making sure they get medical attention than they are with whether they used bear spray or a gun. On top of that, bear spray is a relatively new thing and their use in attacks have made up a pretty small fraction of total historical bear attacks, which are pretty rare to begin with.
>since it illustrates your own desires since you are putting it forth and defending its validity despite the lack thereof, not what is actually right
You don't get the hypocrisy with this statement, do you? At least that guy can explain why he has reached the conclusion that he has, unlike you, whose argument basically consists of plugging your ears and saying "lalala not listening". He has data to show how he reached his decision. You have a couple of angry posts on a Mongolian silkworm breeding forum. Until you can either find some evidence or do your own study, you can go pound sand.
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>>1204171
>https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf
You wanna knwo why I think its garbage you dumb fuck? Because in the meat of that study the total number of "aggressive" bear accounts was 25. And the only instances where those "aggressive bears actually charged numbered 10.

10 "aggressive" bear encounters where they charged and in those bear spray only worked 6 times.

You want me to change everything I believe based on 10 encounters, and when I say thats retarded and I can literally find more encounters where a gun stopped a charge just browsing some local papers or god forbid googling it, you say all im doing is plugging my ears and not listening.

10 encounters, in a poorly researched paper, padded by another 62 encounters where the bears were literally just sniffing around, is supposed to convince me I am wrong.

I think not.
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>>1203389
A nice pair!
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>>1204196
Thanks a lot, but they arent as nice as yours it seems, I have 600 in that whole pic, both of them achieved in trade.
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>>1202510
I'd me more worried about humans than bear or wolf. Around here we have mushroom pickers who will stake out an area, and defend it. plus meth-heads, bum camps, crazy fuckers, etc.
Always good to carry at least a side arm. It's like insurance. hopefully you won't need it, but at least you have it if you do.

Also, maybe tell the anti 2nd amendment, un-american commies you're going with to stfu and deal with it.
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>>1202594
If you see them coming, you can scare them off, yeah, but cougars will want to sneak up on you and rip your jugular out from behind if you're just sitting there not paying attention. Like that man who was killed by one while he was focused on putting the chain back on his bicycle.
Of course, if you're oblivious enough to allow that to happen then a gun probably wouldn't do you much good anyway
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"Bear spray doesn't always work."
-Todd Orr

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1516440219743.webm
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Is not paranoid at all.
If this is paranoid, so is having triple A service.
In both cases it's likely nothing will happen. But if it does...
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>>1204155
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>>1204205
It’s not that my friends are commies. They both like guns. But I wouldn’t trust them to handle one with any level of efficiency.
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>>1204356
Then dont let them, and if they dont like you carrying tell them to stop being soyboys and deal with it, it dosent concern them.
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>>1202499
Summary: both gun and bear spray would be best. Use spray first, gun if necessary.
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>>1202499
I’m more worried about the other people than animals. Always carry. No matter what
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>>1202689
i'm glad you've become comfortable enough with your self and can openly refer to your sex doll mannequin as you "girlfriend"
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>>1202681
I like your holster.

>>1202689
Girls with revolvers, unf.

>>1202959
Is dat some .45-70? Yes please.
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I don't but I'm not a very careful person so I don't judge.
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not carrying a weapon is pretty fucking naive.
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>>1206924
Its the same mentality that thinks that complying with a home invader a 10 minute police response time is adequate in a break in, when the only other possibility is adopting personal responsibility.

It all points back to that, a fear of personal responsibility and a desire to feel taken care of by someone else, even if that desire puts them in danger.
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>>1202499

You are usually justified carrying a weapon, regardless of situation
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>>1202755
>t.fat fuck trying to feel better about self
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>>1204310
I love how people bring up Todd Orr.

There's only one thing we can take from his encounter. He was attacked by a 1500lbs death machine TWICE, and suffered relatively minor injuries. He was able to walk, talk, and shoot a selfie video. He used bear spray.

You can't say that a gun would have made things better. Could he had shot the bear dead? Statistics say not quickly enough. How do we know that wounded bear would have not then killed him?

YOU CAN'T USE IT AS AN ARGUMENT.

We know one thing. Todd Orr used bear spray and survived 2 grizzly bear attacks.

Lots of dead men with an empty rifle next to them would like to have made out as good as Todd Orr.
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>>1206971
it either worked or it didnt, the only reason he lived was he knew how to survive a bear attack and present a non aggressive posture to the fucking bear.

If the bear spray worked he wouldnt have needed to go the hospital in the first place.
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>>1206971
If the metric of success is slim survival, weeks in the hospital, several surgeries, broken limbs hundreds of stiches and puncture wounds, I suppose bear spray works amazingly in the case of todd orr your right!
>>
who ever thinks its "too paranoid" to bring a firearm in the wilderness is retarded.

You are out in the woods where anything can happen. Could come across druggies, could be caught between a rock and a very hungry bear. could have your friend get attacked by a very hungry animal. the list goes on and on i mean there is alot of things out there that could want you dead. will most fuck with you? hell no so long as you arnt dumb, but on the off chance they do. boom firearm.

you get insurance,other then its legally required, not because you expect to crash your car, but just in case it does happen you are protected. same concept.

Could just wanna shoot targets for fun,
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>>1202499
>Not carrying a weapon

I mean why would you ever not?
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>>1207375
Or signal if you're hurt, millions of reasons
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>>1206986
You do realize that Todd Orr himself has said shooting the bear would have been much worse and he WAS carrying a gun.

However he said there was less than 3 seconds between seeing the bear and the attack. He has said he never would have been able to unholster his gun and accurately place a deadly shot on a charging bear. His best chance was the bear spray.

What's worse than a grizzly attacking you? A wounded grizzly attacking you. A wounded bear fights to the death.
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>>1207375
30k people a year for in car accidents. That's why I have insurance.

2 people a year are killed by bears. I'll take my chances.

Almost 4k people every year die from accidental firearm discharge.

You're slightly more likely to be killed by a vending machine than a bear. I don't buy vending machine insurance.

Your argument seems valid. It's not.

You're more likely to die carrying a gun. It's indisputable. I'm a gun owner. I have a safe full of them. I'm also educated, so unlike you, I know what guns are and aren't for.
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What makes a revolver a better choice than a semi-auto pistol for going innawoods?
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>>1207456
A variety of revolvers to suit every taste in chamberings capable of stopping large and angry animals are quite common and often cheap with readily available ammo while the few automatics with comparable terminal ballistics tend to be less common, more expensive and eat rarer ammo. That last point in particular is more important than you might think; if you somehow lose or damage your ammo innawoods in a place where the nearest grocery store, gun store and liquor store all share the same real estate with the town barber you're way farther up shit creek if you're shopping for 10mm or (god forbid) a meme round like .357 SIG instead of something with a rim that includes the word "magnum" on the box.

That said, a G20 loaded with buffalo bore is about as good as it gets for an innawoods handgun and not expensive in the least.
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>>1207426
>Almost 4k people every year die from accidental firearm discharge.

Literally fake news, those numbers are completely wrong. Even going right to the source of anti gun propaganda, even they only claim 780 deaths accidentally per year from guns, and those include negligent suicide where the person becoming an hero was a minor.

If your going to lie online at least lie about something you cant just google, like whether your mom loves you.
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>>1207456
-Revolvers generally come in larger harder hitting calibers that semi autos, the only exception is weird wildcat shit, or maybe 10mm but 10mm depends on the ammo you use.
-Some people think semi autos are less reliable than revolvers, which may or may not be true, since clearing the most common malfunction in either gun (Bad ammo) requires much more effort in a semi than a revolver
-like >>1207464 said ammo avaliability is a big thing, and every fudd shop in the bush carries the ammo for a given revolver.

>>1207426
you are a proven liar, post guns or we have to assume you are lying about that too.
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>>1202711
are you stupid?
>guys walking in forest with pitbull
>pitbull attacks you
>you get ripped up and can't walk out
>guy walks away and says meh that happens, I dont want to go to jail

How exactly are you going to get money? How exactly are you going to get out alive? You should have just shot the dog in the first place.

Your body is found 3 years later and is recorded as a "wolf attack" not a "dog attack"

Happens all the time around here. Just found some guy this weekend they'd presumed missing for almost 10 years.
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>>1207426

>Your argument seems valid. It's not.

The only way your argument is valid is if 100% of accidental gun deaths occured while /out/.


Mong.
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Related question, we CPL here. But I’ve always had problems carrying while backpacking due to the hip belt pushing down into my gun/holster and throwing my hips off. Gets fatigued and strained very fast. Anyone have a similar issue and know how to remedy it?

>inb4 don’t carry
>inb4 carry gun in the pack
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>>1208016
Chest holster, shoulder holster, get a sling or a lanyard loop for it, or carry a light rifle.

Or just slide your holster around in front you while packing, you have a lot of options really.
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>>1208061
Fair enough. I guess I get a little concerned with open vs concealed carry on state parks. Not exactly sure on the legality of either.
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>>1208321
Where are you located? In some places camping is the ONLY time you can open carry.
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>>1202499
it's never too paranoid to carry a gun.
just don't hype yourself into shooting anything that moves just in case.
the problem with guns is always neurotic behavior and thought process.
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>>1206980
>and present a non aggressive posture to the fucking bear
so he pussied out and gave up it worked because it was a grizzly mum. if it was indeed a predatory attack he would have been bear poop.
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Hell I take my .40 cal anytime I go camping or innawoods. Never know
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>>1207988
The only time your argument is valid is when less than 2 people a year die innawoods from accidental firearm discharge.

You're more likely to shoot yourself and die, than be killed by a bear.

It's indisputable.

But like the idiots you gun nuts are, you'll ignore facts.

Argue all you want about how the data on bear spray is wrong, it's still more data than your side has. Other than anecdotal reports you have absolutely NOTHING to go on besides opinions.

Facts are on my side. Conservatards always ignore them.
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>>1208540
Lets try some very basic math, something liberals often have trouble with!

According to the environmentalists and biologists the entire bear population in north america is about 652k, 600 of that being black bear and the rest being grizzly, given that the yearly average of bear deaths is about 3, that makes the percentage that a bear will kill a person per year is .000460%, not 4.60%, .000460%. Doesnt seem like many, I guess bears are safe right?

Well if we do that same math that we learned in fifth grade, the best estimate of guns int eh us is around 350 million, but possibly more, but lets be conservative with our numbers to be in your favor.

The us population is about 323 million so thats a bit more than 1 gun per person, but the amount of accidental deaths, (despite your lies about it earlier in the thread of being more than 4k) number less than 800 per year, about 780 per given the past 10 years of data to look at. SO we do some simple calculator work, 350 million guns, 780 accidental deaths per year, comes out to .000223%. Amazingly, the chance of any gun accidentally discharging is less than half the chance of any bear killing you.

Funny how that works, you fucking mongoloid.

>Facts are on my side
Facts dont take sides based on how much you virtue single you faggot, they just are, and they are proving you wrong at every turn, now matter how much you lie about them.
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>>1208540
get a load of this faggot. its not every day we see someone this retarded. serious waste of protein- what little there is is probably soy protein
fuck off




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