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This thread is for Discussion of Capitalism, Libertarianism, Paleolibertarianism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Minarchism, and the PHYSICAL REMOVAL of COMMUNIST FAGS from our board of peace. Reminder that this is the Libertarian RIGHT General. Aleppo Johnson-fags, Left-Libertarians, and other Shit-Libs need to fuck off. Voice your complaints to r/libertarian.

>Recommended Reading list
http://www.libertarianright.org/reading/

>Vanilla /lrg/ pastebin- CREATE IF YOU DONT SEE ONE IN THE CATALOG
http://pastebin.com/7K1EJYb8

>Bump for Life, Liberty, and Private Death Squads
>>
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CORE READING:

>The Law – Frédéric Bastiat
http://www.liberalstudies.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/thelaw.pdf

>Economics in One Lesson – Henry Hazlitt
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Henry%20Hazlitt%20Economics%20in%20One%20Lesson.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Free To Choose – Milton and Rose Friedman
http://www.il-rs.org.br/site/biblioteca/docs/Friedman__Milton___Rose_-_Free_To_Choose_–_A_Personal_Statement.pdf

>Hayek’s The Constitution of Liberty – Eugene F. Miller
http://iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/Hayek’s%20Constitution%20of%20Liberty.pdf

>Liberty or Equality – Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Liberty%20or%20Equality%20The%20Challenge%20of%20Our%20Time_4.pdf?file=1&type=document
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HOPPE READING LIST:

>Articles by Hans-Hermann Hoppe
https://www.lewrockwell.com/author/hans-hermann-hoppe/

>The Economics and Ethics of Private Property
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Economics%20and%20Ethics%20of%20Private%20Property%20Studies%20in%20Political%20Economy%20and%20Philosophy_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>A Short History of Man: Progress and Decline
https://mises.org/system/tdf/A%20Short%20History%20of%20Man%20%E2%80%94%20Progress%20and%20Decline.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Democracy – The God That Failed
http://www.riosmauricio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Hoppe_Democracy_The_God_That_Failed.pdf

>A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Theory%20of%20Socialism%20and%20Capitalism%2C%20A_4.pdf?file=1&type=document

>From Aristocracy, to Monarchy, to Democracy
https://mises.org/system/tdf/From%20Aristocracy%20to%20Monarchy%20to%20Democracy_Hoppe_Text%202014.pdf?file=1&type=document

>The Myth of National Defense: Essays on the Theory and History of Security Production
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Myth%20of%20National%20Defense%2C%20The%20Essays%20on%20the%20Theory%20and%20History%20of%20Security%20Production_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>The Private Production of Defense
https://mises.org/system/tdf/The%20Private%20Production%20of%20Defense_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Economic Science and the Austrian Method
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Economic%20Science%20and%20the%20Austrian%20Method_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>What Must Be Done
https://mises.org/system/tdf/What%20Must%20Be%20Done_7.pdf?file=1&type=document
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ROTHBARD READING LIST:

>Big-Government Libertarians
https://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch16.html

>Race! That Murray Book
https://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch75.html

>More on LewRockwell.com
https://www.lewrockwell.com/author/murray-n-rothbard/

Books:

>Man, Economy, and State with Power & Market
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Man%2C%20Economy%2C%20and%20State%2C%20with%20Power%20and%20Market_2.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Anatomy of the State
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Anatomy%20of%20the%20State_3.pdf

>Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature, and Other Essays
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Egalitarianism%20as%20a%20Revolt%20Against%20Nature,%20and%20Other%20Essays_2.pdf

>The Ethics of Liberty
https://mises.org/system/tdf/The%20Ethics%20of%20Liberty_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

>What Has Government Done to Our Money?
https://mises.org/system/tdf/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>America’s Great Depression
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Americas%20Great%20Depression_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto
https://mises.org/system/tdf/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto_3.pdf?file=1&type=document
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MISES READING LIST:

>The Mises Reader Unabridged
https://mises.org/system/tdf/The%20Mises%20Reader%20Unabridged_0.pdf?file=1&type=document

>The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality
https://mises.org/system/tdf/The%20Anti-Capitalistic%20Mentality_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Marxism Unmasked
https://mises.org/system/tdf/marxism_unmasked.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Profit and Loss
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Profit%20and%20Loss_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Socialism%20An%20Economic%20and%20Sociological%20Analysis_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Human Action
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Human%20Action_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Omnipotent Government: The Rise of the Total State and Total War
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Omnipotent%20Government%20The%20Rise%20of%20the%20Total%20State%20and%20Total%20War_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Bureaucracy
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Bureaucracy_3.pdf?file=1&type=document

>Liberalism: In the Classical Tradition
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Liberalism%20In%20the%20Classical%20Tradition_3.pdf?file=1&type=document
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>b-but Gary Johns...
Shut it you low energy fag. We ain't some retarded 420 blaze it faggots. We want liberty and the responsibility that goes with it.

>b-but somalia a-and warlords ???
Gotta read that shiet
https://mises.org/library/wouldnt-warlords-take-over
https://mises.org/library/anarchy-somalia
Somalia is the corpse of a fucking socialist state and it's better off now than before it collapsed.

>b-b-but .. ROADS !

If there's a need for roads, they're going to be built by private construction companies, payed by covenants and maintained my said construction companies. They even generate money, because it's like that parts or the road are for rent in order to set up advertisements at the sides.

Or there's no need for roads, because we're the fucking gyrocopter master race
>>
>Reactionary Libertarianism doesn't wo-
>>
What kind of ethnostate would be necessary to ensure the successful implementation of Libertarianism and why is it White people?

>freedom
>death squads
>remove commies
I like this. I usually think NatSoc is the solution to many of the modern worlds ills, but I cannot see it having massive popular support in the West - ever again.

Does the Libertarian Right support multiculturalsim? I hope you aren't yet another deluded fool imagining that it works(pro tip, it doesn't) If not I am listening.

And what is the stance regarding the JQ?
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>>122123556
kek

We need more 'joke' memes

Like: Hans-Hermann "Get to the chopper I'm the commie stopper" Hoppe
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>>122123647
>Does the Libertarian Right support multiculturalsim?
No, see pic.

The JQ can be solved as politicians and state-run media no longer have any influence.
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>>122123647
the problem with NatSoc is that Socialism is still a shit economic system, even in a ethno-state

>Does the Libertarian Right support multiculturalsim?
hell no, I don't want third worlders coming over here demanding gibsmedats

Libertarianism will only ever succeed in a western culture. Political values are dependent on culture and non-western cultures have proven time and time again to prefer more authoritarian forms of government.
that's why exporting democracy like the neo-cons do is ridiculous, and that's why importing third world peoples will lead to third world political movements thriving in western nations

>And what is the stance regarding the JQ?
Jews that spread degenerate shit like cultural marxism should be physically removed from society, those that keep their mouths shut can stay but preferably they should move to Israel, their own ethno-state
>>
>>122124150
Thank you, it sounds good so far. Will spend time tonight reading http://www.libertarianright.org/reading/

Gotta admit "Hans-Hermann 'Get to the chopper I'm the commie stopper' Hoppe" has a nice ring to it. I'd vote for that! Kek

Also what is this black/yellow pepe I keep seeing all about?
>>
>>122123085
>>122123182
>>122123250
>>122123279
>>122123462
Shit nigger thats alota links

>>122123556
Top kek
>>122123647
Bassically >>122124150 and >>122124385
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>>122124478
It's Hoppe frog ancap meme
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>>122124385
Yeah true, I wonder how far Hitler would've gotten if international capitalists weren't financing him from the start.

>Does the Libertarian Right support multiculturalsim?
>hell no, I don't want third worlders coming over here demanding gibsmedats
>Libertarianism will only ever succeed in a western culture.
>And what is the stance regarding the JQ?
>Jews that spread degenerate shit like cultural marxism should be physically removed from society

Honestly this is sounding better and better. I'm going to look into it. Based Hoppe especially.

Soo... one thing - the Libertarian Right respects traditional hierarchy like Fascists do, but are not totalitarian. How would they ensure a healthy, traditional society when everyone has the liberty to be unpunished degenerates? (Even if culture distorting jews have been removed).
I know that's a broad question but that's the first thing that came to mind for me and surely you guys have thought about this already.
>>
>>122124753
Ok sweet, cheers m8
>>
What would you do if a socialist goverment got elected in your country?
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>>122125178
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>>122124933
We believe in voluntary association rather than state control. Western governments are obviously incompetent and completely adverse to the production of a peaceful and healthy society - the only moral and practical solution is non-aggression and total secession by preferably peaceful means. The state should be replaced by superior governing authorities in the form of covenants, churches and free nations
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>>122124933
>unpunished degenerates?
That's where you're wrong. Punishment can work without law. Can you go scream in a supermarket and shit on all the products? Of course not, state law isn't necessary for this, only a structure that enforces property rights.

Right-libertarianism allows discrimination through property rights, and any demographic that is seen as bad, and, subsequently, has higher costs associated with it, will have market forces drive it away from society, just as bad products are driven out of the market in many countries today.
If a city dislikes black people, then they'd be willing to pay more to not live near black people, and this becomes a more profitable endeavour - landlords would jointly disallow black people from moving in.
Even better, though - incorrect ideas about what is bad and what is good get disproven through market forces in right-libertarianism. Think that multiculturalism is great? Go live in a multiculturalist area. If it's great, costs for your own security protection will be low because crime is low, schooling will be to a higher quality and will be cheaper as it'll be somehow less difficult to tutor people from multiple cultures and backgrounds, and courts will be cheaper as multicultural societies will somehow be able to resolve conflicts more easily and quickly as they obviously agree on moral issues.

Clearly, this is not the case, and all of the above will be cheaper in areas resembling ethno-states. I don't see it being likely that there will be 100% white ethnostates - I see no reason for a Thomas Sowell, so to speak, to be excluded from a prosperous nation on the basis of market forces.

Regardless of what I think about the merits of a ethnostate in a libertarian society, though, the market will unearth the true costs and merits of multiculturalism and diversity through competition.
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>>122124933
>How would they ensure a healthy, traditional society when everyone has the liberty to be unpunished degenerates?

Degenerates are self-destructive in their nature
in a heavily privatized society where they can't rely on handouts people who set low standards will be "destroyed" by people who set high standards

the fat pink haired feminist with a liberal arts degree isn't so threatening when she's unemployed living under a private bridge because nobody in the country will employ someone that useless
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>>122125501
I'd like to add something which might make parts of this more clear:

In a current state, "public services" are a tax on those who use them less and a subsidy on those who use them more. It follows from this that market forces in current states do not correctly punish living in high-crime areas, living in multi-cultural areas and living in extremely diverse and untraditional areas, as a growth in these currently hinders said areas only as much as it hinders traditional and prosperous areas. Being a slob will finally be punished by monetary costs, as will being in an area in which you're likely to be a target of crime, as will being a criminal yourself, as will endorsing communism or democracy (the violation of property rights).
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>>122125719
desu they'd be pushed so far away from civilisation that the only place they could be without violating the NAP would be the unclaimed waters at the centre of the pacific ocean.
beautiful
>>
>>122124933
Degeneracy in general is not economically viable, most prosperous members of society don't want to be exposed to degeneracy in their neighborhoods.

This leads us to believe that conservative, white covenants will be the most prosperous, and if the market teaches us something is that the best formulas will be imitated and eventually adopted by everyone.

I always recommend doing the exercise, go step by step, start thinking what happens once a rich guy decides to buy a huge chunk of land and offer parts of that land to buyers (or built houses) in exchange for certain restrictions on behavior to make sure the rest of the houses raise or at least maintain their value. Eventually these rich guys would offer deals where security is included, etc, and the market would show which options are the cheapest and which internal rules allow for the most prosperous results. There's no doubt in my mind that degeneracy has no room in such world.
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>>122125178
cry about it and shitpost Salazar memes on /pol/
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>>122125490

>voluntary association rather than state control
Ok, that's fair enough because with the JQ resolved people will know much more clearly what is and isn't good for them, and would probably choose to associate with what is good, for the most part.

>Western governments are obviously incompetent
>The (shill) state should be replaced
Absolutely. It would be very interesting to see what kind of men were produced living with a higher degree of self-governance, and responsibility, rather than the laughable mentality of
>gibs
>vote once every 4 years
>hope things change
>>
>>122124150
That last line sounds like a libertarian 14/88.

12/??
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>>122126174
The most important and easy thing to bring out of Hoppe is an application of the tragedy of the commons to democracy. Private property is looked after better than public property, and a democratic state is public property leased out to a new demagogue every four years, throughout which the prime incentive of the demagogue is not to form capital for future growth (akin to planting seeds in your own private field), but to take as much present value as he can for himself (akin to harvesting half-grown wheat and not replanting, as the field will be used by someone else after you stop watching it)
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>>122126324
12/888
Hans-Hermann Hoppe
>>
>>122125501
That makes alot of sense. Are you basically implying that the Libertarian Right would be highly likely to enable Castle Law (to defend property rights...) Because that is fucking awesome if so.

Sounds to me like minorities with an undue amount of influence over the (normal, healthy) majority, which almost always comes at the expense of the majority, would also be put in their place via the market. Excellent.

Doesn't have to be a 100% White Ethnostate, but it would be rather amusing if the market self-regulated (purged?) into something very similair anyway. LOL
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>>122126454
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>>122125719
YES!!!! That is perfect. I have always been at elitist, not because "muh virtues" but because some people clearly work harder and excel in certain fields when others are just pure useless unproductive shit - yet demand to be seen as equal.

Might be time to make a folder full of based Hoppe memes. You lads may have a potential convert on your hands.
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>>122126491
It's essentially castle law, though the justness of your level of violent response to a violation of the NAP upon you would be decided by the most economically viable court that you can access. Obviously a guy going 81MPH on a 80MPH road wouldn't be justifiably shot by the road owner.
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>>122126680
In my opinion, the best book to read to get started is Mises' Human Action. It dismisses anarcho-capitalism (when it talks about it, that is, which is only for one of the 700 pages), but the objections to it are unjustified and the rest of the book is a fantastic, grounds up construction of Austrian Economics and future ancap doctrine. The most important one after that is Hoppe's Democracy: The God That Failed
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>>122125740
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like the unproductive bludgers, degenerates, and ghetto types are finally going to be held responsible/punished (in a way) for being unproductive bludgers, degenerates, and ghetto types while the productive, civilized White man prospers.

Sounds good to me.

I am finally beginning to understand why one of my mates from school went hardcore Libertarian and never shutup about the free market - it really does solve a lot of problems.
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>>122126680
Its not about conversion. Its about making up your mind through an exchange of ideas in the free thought market, an unalienable right. If you find that the evidence isnt enough, feel free to keep your natsoc views. Or be selective of what you think is a good idea. You can have disparity in certain issues, its perfectly normal. Hemogony on every issue eventually leads to total stagnation on every level.
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>>122123085
Would I still be classed as a libertarian if I believed in a very small state limited solely to policing borders, levying a national military and enforcing contracts? Or if I believed in a police force or constabulary but only by town or city, with no supernational level?
My guiding philosophy is "as little government and as little interference as is physically possible", but I'm not sure if I draw the line too near or too far to be classed a libertarian per se.
I'm also not sure how to prevent the growth of the state in good times
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>>122127160
That's certainly Libertarian and the same as most of us here. You'd probably be a Minarchist.
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>>122123085
>Paleolibertarianism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Minarchism

LOL, your meme generator is gonna melt if you keep this up!!
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>>122127068
Market prices are simply a measurement of resource cost in units of human value. As such, the society most valued by humans, giving due weight to each human's values dependant on their value of each human to society, will emerge in an unfettered market.

You're entirely right regarding your first line, yes.
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>>122127284
come this way sir
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>>122127160
Yes, you'd definitely be a libertarian or minarchist. Why can't there be competition with regards to who gets to police the borders of a town?
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>>122127353
Would anime prosper in an area in which degenerates are physically removed, or would the weebs be physically removed too?
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>>122125908
I don't think any healthy, normal, productive person wants to put up with degenerate shit in their neighbourhoods. But currently in the West, we are forced to. To speak about against it is 'hate speech' or 'racist' or, you know, that thing called honesty.

I can see this having a far greater appeal than NatSoc to the average Westerner- particularly those in Europe who are experiencing the opposite of what you describe.
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>>122127524
The weeb would never prosper, I do enjoy the meme though.
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>>122125908
I want to expand a bit because maybe it is not clear how I reach the belief that rich guys will decide to buy chunks of land.

Many skeptics against libertarianism will come with the typical, "how would a libertarian society do X".

In the end, we might think of potential solutions, and there's always at least one, but there is a point where managing 900 subscriptions gets time-consuming and becomes just an annoyance in general. People want easy living.

This is where private cities come into play, by offering "packages" of services in direct competition with other cities, including law, which would suggest that the NAP is not even necessarily enforced, but just a logic conclusion of market forces leading people to areas where the NAP is the law. People want the minimum amount of laws that restrict their personal growth applied upon themselves, while accepting renouncing certain liberties in order to have a prosperous community, so people will migrate there where this is true, and the NAP is, I believe, the most basic set of rules that can achieve maximum prosperity levels.
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>>122127353
Anzu a cute.
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>>122127160
More libertarian than the Libertarian Party that's for sure. Also for preventing state growth I would first consider decentralisation in the form of states' rights, secessions and independence movements. Although in the end, no matter how small you make a government it will invariably get larger over time. The best solution is no state at all, throwing governance to the forces of individual economic power.
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>>122127524
weebs wouldn't prosper but the anime industry would definitely survive

anime is the way it is because they know their target audience, they're capitalists at heart
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>>122127422
I'm not in theory opposed to introducing competition in police forces, at least in the same way as one uses competition for contracts in commissioning ships and buildings and the like. Households could choose from various local competitors the same way you buy private insurance, or small villages could keep their own police akin to neighbourhood watch
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>>122127699
In an era without true 3D maidens, the only female structure that pushes the young man towards virtue and prosperity is the notion of being good enough for his purest waifu. With this in mind, I see anarcho-capitalism resulting in competition between waifus and 3DPG until the 3DPG can once again compete with the most pure of waifus. Waifus, and, by extention, animes, are the perfect competition to increase the quality of the real female, so to speak.
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>>122127160
Yeah id totally classify you as libertarian. Prevention of growth in terms of government institutions is relativley hard to combat especially if its over a long period of time. The best way in my opinion is to keep fundamental control to the individual and the rights we all hold dear and not budge an inch when it comes to them.

Then again its never so simple, look at nowadays in america, the second amendment is consistently under attack.

If the government is reformed, I would leave it in the constitution that no rights can ever be breached on a fundamental level as described in the constitution, and that the government cannot grant any power unto itself, and is simply seperate and outline the notion that the responsibility of the government is strictly responsible for the protection of the nation and international relations or whatever else you might belive in that doesnt strictly give the government authority to tread on you.
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>>122126379
>>122126454
>>122126796
>>122126970
>>122127151
>>122127307

Thanks for answering my noob questions guys, this has been a real eye opener. Serious appeal here and real solutions not based on idealism. It's nice to think Total Race War may not be the only solution after all!

I'll start my reading tonight, gotta go get dinner now. Have a bump and some (you's) and you may see me in a Libertarian Right general on here again soon.

>keep NatSoc views
Nobody will ever be able to convince me ethnostates aren't supreme or that death squads aren't cool.

Hail Based Hoppe!
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>>122128161
Mutatis mutandis, so to speak, brother.
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>>122128161
No problem my dude, always keep those neurons firing, you dont want to be like those sjws and automatically denounce everything not in your little bubble.

If someone is a moron and disagrees with you, argue with them and win, and if its in public all the better.
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>>122127943
when the technology to make waifus real exists 3D women will lose their market share
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>>122127943
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-dYNttdgl0
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>>122128161

With true libertarianism, the free market will always naturally seek more workers and more consumers- no corporations are going to willingly give up the 50% of the population that is female. That means women working and women having their own money, that means atomization into disparate individuals and the destruction of the family unit/gender roles. Likewise, they will naturally want to import more workers without regard for their ethnicity. This alone makes an unrestricted free market a communism-tier meme. Certainly you need to keep some firewalls to preserve race and family.
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>>122129060
>no corporations are going to willingly give up the 50% of the population that is female
luckily for them they don't have the power to say no. the willingness is on the part of the female, who must revert to a family role once the state ceases to entertain the role of the husband and extract a quarter of a million dollars per male and give it to each female over the course of her lifetime. there's a reason why the growth of the welfare state has the same incidence as the growth of females in the workplace.
with regard to "importing more workers without regard to their ethnicity", tell me why this didn't happen when capitalism was at its highest historical form, and why it would happen if we passed that point even further. read the thread for answers. if other ethnicities are bad, costs are associated with them. as such, it becomes better to employ better ethnicities. currently, all costs that are borne from employing a bad ethnicity are distributed upon the good ethnicities, too - higher crime rates are paid for by high-tax paying whites, the destruction of natural law is paid for by high-tax paying whites, the entire state apparatus is a subsidy from the most productive members of society towards those who generate the most social costs.
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>>122129060
>free market
>corporations have the right to force women into the workforce and enforce open borders
nice meme

in a true free market women get to decide whether or not they want to wageslave or stay at home with the kids, and there are a lot more women who would prefer to stay at home than feminist bullshit would indicate


also friendly reminder that women who stay at home are happier
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3634473/The-job-makes-happiest-Housewife-Survey-finds-stay-home-mothers-satisfied-profession.html
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>>122128969
We /Classic Liberal Composers/ now?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUgoBb8m1eE

>When World War I broke out, Elgar was horrified at the prospect of the carnage, but his patriotic feelings were nonetheless aroused

>Throughout the 1920s, Elgar, saddened by his bereavement and by the social and musical changes brought about by the war, lived in virtual retirement, outwardly content to live the life of a country gentleman in his beloved Worcestershire with his dogs, sometimes emerging for the occasional visit to London or for a conducting or recording assignment.

>Elgar will never make /lrg/ compositions.
>>
>>122129060
>>122129494
Exactly, in both traditional and egalitarian societies, woman prefer being in certain roles, its a well studied phenomena that has its roots in sexual dimorphisism between males and females. Thats not to say women shouldnt interact in the market in certain ways, its clear that some women and some people from minority groups clearly preform above their peers. These people should be given the same opportunities as anyone else so they can thrive. Not allowing them to do so would be a diservice to society.
>>
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>>122129707
tybAfrica
>>
>>122123085
Heil, from NatSoc brother.
>>
>>122129707
I put it in the context of the opening of Chateu Autiste, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z23Gzp0RTOg
>>
>>122129060
>destruction of the family unit
Government destroyed marriage with no-fault divorce, alimony, child support and subsidizing single mothers. If you let people make contract the way they want and not to benefit lawyers it's likely nobody would agree to the terms of marriage the way they are today.
>>
>>122130239
Fuck socialism
>>
>>122129707
I'm more of a Romantic guy - Chopin, Liszt, Dvorak, Brahms, Beethoven...
>>
>>122130188
Good man. He should use the intelligence he possesses to better his society and community. Also I agree anglos certainly have quite a bit to be proud of.
>>
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>>122123085

>this kills the libertarian
>>
>>122130325
>implying its real socialism
>>
>>122130599
Even if Keynesian theory did anything other than misallocate capital and allow stealth taxation, it would still be a blithe misunderstanding of how governments act under constraints and incentives, and as such ought to be dismissed out of hand.
>>
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>>122130846

Yeah dude, getting America out of the depression and making it a global superpower is nothing!
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>>122130599
>>
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>>122131113

Literally what the fuck is that supposed to mean.
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>>122131099
>getting america out of the depression
retarded notion
>making it a global superpower
retarded notion

these aren't even worth entertaining. without keynes we would still be in the great depression right now, it literally would have never ended, i'm sure
>>
>>122131265

Maybe read a book nigger so you can find out.
>>
>>122131265
> Just print more money

>>122131113
Are you the futa connosaire libertarian or the portuense one?
>>
>>122130599
Keynes was a homosexual who did not care about the future.
>>
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>>122131265
We need to print a brain as well.
>>
>>122123085
What kind of currency does Australia have? I have looked at it, and says commodity based? Wouldn't that be similar to a gold standard.
>>
>>122131353

>without keynes we would still be in the great depression right now, it literally would have never ended

That might actually be true. Just trying to wait it out just didn't fucking work. Why on earth would waiting even longer have magically fixed it? Face it dude, when libertarian economics failed during the great depression, keynesian economics came in and saved the day.
>>
>>122131600
>when libertarian economics failed during the great depression, keynesian economics came in and saved the day.

this has to be the bait
print a brain if it isn't
>>
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>>122131466
do Porto, mas não sei se sou o mesmo anon a que te estás a referir
>>
>>122131466

The results speak for themselves. Keynesian economics got America out of the depression and made it a global superpower.

>BUT MUH NAP

Completely fictional.
>>
>>122123085
>>122130986
Muricans
>>
That's a cool hat. I'd do it if I had more cash
https://www.terapeak.com/worth/gadsden-don-t-tread-on-me-snake-chrome-plated-car-emblem-with-abs-plastic/221856365241/

http://www.epicmilitaria.com/luftwaffe-officers-visor-cap.html
>>
>>122129060
> so many argued assumptions

Slow done
>>
>>122130783
Why are you calling yourself socialist then? And how are you not a socialist?
>>
>>122131600

Look at the South Sea bubble for reasons as to why Kensian Economics is retarded.
>>
>>122131681
kek, you would know if you were him. Seems like Porto is strong in this board kek. If you were either the futanari one or the "portuense" one you would know.

Carry on
>>
>>122131744

>Keynesian economics got America out of the depression and made it a global superpower.


US was already a global superpower after WW1. And the reason it became a world hegemon is WW2. It had nothing to do with retarded economics.
>>
>>122131600
>"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409

>Despite the varied theories espoused by many establishment economists, it was none other than the Federal Reserve that caused the Great Depression and the horrific suffering, deprivation and dislocation America and the world experienced in its wake. At least, that’s the clearly stated view of current Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke.
http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/59405/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7Fd9Qt3ac
>>
>>122131992
Worth noting that Herbert Hoover already implemented some proto-New Deal policies just after the recession hit.
>>
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>>122131878

Let's take this a step further. In a lolbertarian paradise, what prevents somebody from just printing out unlimited money? In real-life, the government carefully controls the cash supply. People who try to print their own money get arrested. But what happens in lolbertarian-ville? What stops me from just getting a high-quality printer and printing all the money I want? Eventually everybody else would also do this, causing hyper-inflation, and making the money worthless. It's horrifying to even think about. Thank god we have a government that prevents this from happening.
>>
>>122132191
You're literally just an ancap who is trying to bait other ancaps, aren't you?
>>
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>>122131935
you should get the extra flags extension, it's pretty good

shame barely anyone on /pol/ uses it, it's much more common on /int/
>>
>>122132191

>what prevents somebody from just printing out unlimited money?

What would prevent people from seeing his currency as worthless?

> In real-life, the government carefully controls the cash supply.

Yet it struggles with forgeries. And before governments existed we still had currency.

>People who try to print their own money get arrested. But what happens in lolbertarian-ville?

Nobody uses their money, people will switch to hard to forge cur ency like cold or silver.
>>
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>>122130599
>>
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>>122132370

>And before governments existed we still had currency.

Shitty bait. 0/10.

>BUT THE TRIBES USED SEA SHELLS WE SHOULD JUST GO BACK TO USING SEA SHELLS FUCK MONEY
>>
>>122132191
Please do something read and personal study before asking basic questions.

> Let's take this a step further. In a lolbertarian paradise, what prevents somebody from just printing out unlimited money?

They inflate their own money supply and it becomes worthless.

> In real-life, the government carefully controls the cash supply.

Wrong. Government inflate the money supply when they have to pay off massive debts. This eats away the savings of the people as the money people have saved loses it's value. Governments also print out lots of money to pay for welfare and social programs which they offer to people in exchange for votes which keep them in power.

> But what happens in lolbertarian-ville? What stops me from just getting a high-quality printer and printing all the money I want?

Nothing. Why? Money is used as medium of exchange. It's more convenient than barter. However, any currency is worth something if it's valued by both parties. If your money isn't backed by anything or heavily inflated it's not worth anything.

> Eventually everybody else would also do this, causing hyper-inflation, and making the money worthless.

This is quite ironic.
>>
>>122132514
We'd trade organs we harvest from people that step on our property.
>>
>>
>>122132191
>and making the money worthless
Because arbitrary printed money is worthless. What makes currency valuable, like all other goods, is our subjective judgement of its value (although that doesn't mean we can't be correct in these judgements). The true value of a certain type of printed money, a certain rare metal or raw bartered goods is the ability to be transacted for wealth. What you are describing is the process of individuals creating a collective service, similar to the funding of healthcare, food, roads, power, defence or internet.
>>
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>>122131951

>US was already a global superpower after WW1.

You can thank based Wilson for that, but Keynes was still critical for getting the world out of the depression. If only he had been listened to sooner, millions of lives could have been saved.
>>
>>122132514

Currency actually goes back to early cities in Mesopotamia and the nearby places where they used metal pieces as coins.
>>
>>122132807

>You can thank based Wilson for that,

No you can thank WW1 and the US arms industry.

Go read a book nigger.
>>
>>122131099
Everyone who lost their money in the great deppression was a moron. Investing in the way that they did was projecting a clear crash. Not investing in solid assets was an additional mistep. They government wouldnt have had to step in if everyone was thoroughly educated in the stock market and how the free market functions.

Everyone who had a brain, pulled out their assets and invested heavily in metals and other universally valuable goods was far better off than the average idiot that kept waiting for the market to recover.

Thats not to say the government helped, it definitely did. But could we have been pulled put of the great deppression by some other means? Possibly, if the government sold more of its assets to the private sector and we instituted a focus on developing resource extraction and manufacturing over time the united states would most likely be both self sufficient and succesful. Granted it would take a couple more decades than what happened in history. But I will give Keynesianism a point on the scoreboard. It worked, it had side affects just like any theory. But it worked.

>>122132191
Hard currency. Whats your point? That current fiscal policy wont work? Yeah I suppose so. What stops barter becoming more widespread if thats the case? It'll go back and forth, and standardized money is always appreciated, but its not neccisary for a functioning and economically healthy society.
>>
>>122132652

>They inflate their own money supply and it becomes worthless.

That was literally my entire point. If you just let anybody print their own money, you're going to have hyper-inflation. Which is why we NEED the government to control the monetary system to prevent that from happening.
>>
stop replying to autists
>>
Got a joke that's relevant, one of my favourites:

Keynes, Bernanke, and Hayek were all off to work one day and ran into each other as they crossed the bridge. As they were walking, Keynes saw a pile of dog shit.

"I'll give you £10 if you give it eat it!", exclaimed Keynes to Bernanke.

"You're on!", Bernanke replied, and he glad did it.

>Hayek looked on, confused

They arrived at the office, and all went about doing their respective work. Come 5pm, they all left, and once again, they met before the bridge.

Waking together, Bernanke spots another dog shit.

"I'll give you £10 if you eat it", said Bernanke to Keynes.

"Right on!" shouted Keynes, and once again, the dog shit was eaten.

>Hayek was still perplexed and looked on in great confusion as the event unfolded a second time

And so they continued walking. Once they got to the end of the bridge, and were all about to part their own ways, Hayek called them back.

"Why did you both eat those dog shits, it makes no sense" asked Hayek.

Well, they both replied, we've just created two jobs and GDP has gone up by £20!

>and here ends the story on why Keynesian economics is a load of dog-shit.
>>
>>122133130
If one autist cant refute another, than clearly that autist is flawed in his stance and needs to revaluate his arguments and opinions.
>>
How do you read your ebooks? I've been trying to read Democracy: the God that failed, but my shit kindle fucks up the words and puts commas where they don't belong, it's incomprehensible almost. Harder than reading mein kampf
>>
>>122133433
Should we even address people who think free banking fails because "people will print their own money"?

I think there's just not enough time left on earth to get through some people's skulls thickness. We believe in optimization of resources, it is way more productive to do anything else than trying to convince total morons.
>>
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Are more Americans self-righteous murderers than paleo-lib now. Vietnam had atleast 700 cases of fragging.
>>
>>122133716
desu i just buy physical copies
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>>122133716

>Owning a kindle
>Not just buying books off of Amazon
>>
>>122133746
Good point, links and sources would be a better allocation of resources.
>>
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>people will print their own money
Holy fuck, how dense do you have to be to think this would even happen?

>you know what? Fuck Ancapistani dollars, I want to make Johnny Cash-cash
>go to the store
>yes, can I have a pack of cigarettes
>five Dollars
>hands him a 1,000,000 cash bill
>Wtf is this? We don't accept that here, only dollars or BTC
>>
>>122132945
Dangitt you're right!

It's not like I could just refuse that certain hyperinflated currency
>>
>>122132945
But you can't print gold or btc.
>>
>>122133716
I hate reading on computer screens. Everything looks wavy to mean when I focus. Physical books rule.
>>
>>122134437
But what if you lose your page :^(

>>122134170
>>122134191
I don't have enough free market credits to afford that
>>
>>122134437
This. Besides, I wouldn't forget myself if my library didn't have a copy of democracy the god that failed or anatomy of the state.

I don't get many physical books but there are some that will come with me wherever I go.
>>
>>122134680
>forget
forgive, damn correctors
>>
>>122134399
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAhahaha.

Thats the point
>>
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>>122132945
Money is a medium of exchange.

In the case that 'it inflates', people have choice, which the market provides.

Either you move to a currency which is stable in its supply, such as gold.
Or you move to a currency which is fixed in its supply, such as bitcoin
Or you move to a third currency which isn't inflationary.

Once Government control the supply, it becomes inflationary by nature. It's not a coincidence gold and bitcoin have skyrocketed as they are the best alternatives as a store of value.

Our middle class are being destroyed by the hidden tax of inflation. It is the biggest con in history.
>>
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>>122123085
Why are libertarians suck Whikes? (White kikes). They claim to be anti-jewish, yet support a system dominated by jews. Even Austrian economics is dominated by jews. They are like racist wiggers who hate blacks but love the culture.
>>
>>122134741
I love drinking you guys
>>
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>>122134399
>Believing the gold jew scheme.
>>
>circulate gold and silver certificates
>get accused of terrorism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_(private_currency)
>>
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Don't tax the rich. No jew taxes allowed!
>>
>>122134881
n-no homo, r-right?
>>
>>122134873
>if x does y then y is inherently bad
Wow! Great logic!

>>122134996
>Everything is the jews
I can't wait until we gas all the Jews, then you fucking faggots won't have anything else to blame other than yourselves
>>
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>>122135103
Of course
>>
>>122123085
you do realise the libertarian right doesnt exist
you can't be socially right and libertarian, its contradictory
>>
>>122135106
>I hate when jews exploit the people but when a white guy does it, then it is ok.


I'm not all about the jews either, but you libertarians are delusional to think by getting rid of a race will have all your problems solved. It's like saying killing all blacks is good, but taking over their culture is fine as well. You just change the positions.
>>
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>>122135217
This

Capitalism and liberalism are inseparable.

Multiculturalism and transgenderism is individualism.
>>
>>122135217
I can be in favor of legalizing drugs and slapping my son if he uses while living in my house.

My property my rules, and let's make everything someone's property.
>>
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Option A: Destroy all socialists, communists, anarchists, feminists, anti-whites, (leftwing) universities, unions, etc.

Option B: Destroy all corporations who promote the former (ex. Google and Disney).
>>
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>>122135476
>Egalitarianism isn't collectivist
>>
>>122135370
How would someone be exploited in the free market?
>muh shitty work conditions
>muh low wage
Decline the contract and find work somewhere else
>can't find more jobs, all factories do this, there is literally nowhere else to work
Quit being a fucking pleb and make your own work. Also, this never happens, there is always work somewhere and you're not forced to work on a coal mine, you can move to a different city or industry.
>>
Just remember, that you retards are indirectly support the wars in the middle east.

Assad was voted in by a coalition of communists, socialists, and national socialists. The coalition wants nothing to do with international capitalism.
>>
>>122135915
>Don't like the country? Just move

Why are you using the statist logic?
>>
>>122135915
This assume people can be equal and are equal.
>>
>>122135732
when you destroy a you destroy b
ez
>>
>>122136056
Moronic comparison.

If you don't like a job you can create your own company. How can I create my own country?
>>
>>122134873
>>122134996
>>122135080
Convert to judaism, marry a jew and learn economics. That way you'll be succesful. Or just hide out inna woods and blame the jews for literally everything ever.

Theres a really big difference between zionists and the average jew. Learn to scrutinize the individual, not neccisarily just the institution. Thats what really matters.

>>122135370
But it is about culture, ethnic shit is secondary compared to culture.

>>122135678
Absolutely this

>>122135732
A. Its not that hard

>>122135965
I dont see the problem

>>122136056
Because it applies. Its an individual choice retard. Do what you need to do to be succesful or dont.
>>
>>122123085
Former Ron Paul supporter here. Not gonna lie, watching libertarians crash and burn has been hilarious but in all seriousness we can't let these guys get ahold of the federal reserves codes.
>>
>>122136298
So you believe everyone is equally responsible? Also, this assumes that all property is equal in power. It's not. If I control first order goods, all other goods are dependent upon me. It is just as bad a communism. There is no individuality because all products have to comply to the raw material I own.
>>
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>>122135965
>directly
fixed that for you

Support your troops! They fight for liberty, empire, and private property.
>>
>>122136298
Communism is just the restablishment of jewish capitalists. Both end up having a few control the first order goods.
>>
>>122134649
> But what if you lose your page :^(
SumatraPDF remembers your page.
>>
>>122136606
>>122136606
The libertarian nationalists are just closeted george bush lovers

>We mus abandon free market principles to save the free market.
>The NAP doesn't apply to statists
You're just neo cons
>>
>>122136056
You don't have to be a statist to be honest. There is a huge cultural and economic difference between Boston, Massachusetts and Western Massachusetts, same state/area, but somewhat different cultures. You cannot deny that a coastal area of Ancapistan will be different than the inland

>>122136170
Retards never address this, but survival of the fittest, if you're not fit enough you will perish. The West has been subsidizing disgenics for a very long time, with welfare and affirmative action. When we get rid of both lots of people will no longer be fit and will have to find a different way to get by than to participate in the free market, either by asking gibs at churches, or by becoming independent in some rural area (grow their own crops, do their own thing in the middle of nowhere)
>>
>>122136298
>>122136254
>>122135732
>(((destroy a obviously lol)))
yeah but if you kill that one generation of lefties right now, the companies and mega-shill-corporations will still be there to create more.

>>122135476
also fuck off faggot
>>
>>122136536
No. They dont. You can get the supply yourself, and if you create a monopoly on supply people will either find an alternative or search for more and compete when they find some.

>>122136631
>>122136795
Then whats the answer genius. Really.
>>
>>122136863
This guy gets it
>>
>>122136911
But if I own the a monopoly of raw materials then it will be against the NAP to take my property and to do what you want with it. There won't be any alternatives.
>>
>>122136863
Okay, then we let the lefties fail at finding jobs because they are worthless and when they breach the NAP we physically remove them.
>>
>>122137111
Nice get. NAP forever BTFO.
>>
>>122136863
By the time they are created we have adopted a system where nobody has any right over your property, destroying democracy, and therefore completely removing any incentive to brainwash the youth.
>>
>>122137111
so basically... if i literally owned all of the property and land in the world and everyone was my property and i owned the sun and the entire universe then because NAP libertarians btfo:?

looks like i'm a socialist now, let's give all of our resources to the state monopoly
>>
>>122134323

Everybody will refuse it. The entire money system would fail apart. Thank god we have a government that prevents this horrific scenario from occurring.
>>
>>122137111
Nope, if you find it you keep it. You cant patent someone elses shit if its already patented. Then it would be the monopoly breaching the NAP and they get sued and fucked over.

>>122137272
Kek bassicaly this
>>
>>122137111
>But if I own the a monopoly of raw materials
Filed under things that would never happen.
>>
>>122137302
>The entire
No, only the inflationary.

Any smart business person would create a currency under a contract stating he will never print more of it, people will then flock to this currency and it will be accepted by everyone.
>>
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>>122136699
How can I install that into pic related.
>>
>>122137272
No. If I own a raw material like lumber, then all goods that need wood are indirectly mine. If I own the means of production, then you don't have full freedom over your property.
>>122137370
I'm sure the poor homeless scavanger who takes the apples off a tree can afford the Mcdonald's court free that costs $50,000.

Besides, both have to agree voluntarily to be at the court.
>>
>>122137302
Yeah looks like the established monetary is right in every way with no flaws and praise the government blah blah blah do you know what hard currency is? Jesus.

>>122137379
Its possible, but highly impractical.
>>
>>122137379
>What is the war in the middle east about?
>>
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>>122137370

How do you enforce patents with no government? Don't worry, I know what you're going to say:

>muh polycentric law

You guys constantly use this polycentric bullshit as an excuse but you NEVER explain how it is supposed to work without a government to enforce the law.
>>
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>>122137617
>the war in the middle east was about owning a monopoly on every raw material in the world so there wasn't an alternative.
I need a bigger file.
>>
>Don't trust the people who you voluntalily chosen whose job it is to represernt you

This is dictatorship

>Trust a man who you don't know, never consisted to, nor even has any obligation to you.

This is freedom.
>>
>>122137651
>NEVER explain how it is supposed to work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTYkdEU_B4o
>>
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:^)
>>
>>122137544
So if you own literally all of the wood in the world then you no longer have competition in wood, and nobody in the world has seeds, and there aren't trees in anybodies gardens or anything and you literally own every tree in the world?

Well that sucks

>>122137544
Why would the court fee cost $50,000? The resource cost is far lower than that, and he'd just be forced to work at McDonalds for however long the court states that he needs to do so in order to recover the costs he incurred to Mcdonalds

If he disagrees to go to court then action he gets put on a list of people who avoided attending court upon being charged, and would be discriminated against.
>>
>>122137858
The only people fighting against the war in the middle east are the socialists.

Assad, Saddam, and Ghadaffi were all socialists.

I thought America was socialist? If it was true, then why is America trying to privatize banks all over the middle east?
>>
>>122137570

>established monetary is right in every way with no flaws

Basically yeah. You don't seem to have any counter-point besides straw-manning, so yeah. All hail based Yellen, high priestess of the federal reserve and guardian of monetary policy.

>>122137886

I already watched that video. It doesn't explain anything. You should be able to explain how it works without relying on this as a delaying tactic. The current system works fine, so the burden of proof is on you to prove that your theoretical system would be superior.
>>
>>122138077
>>122138145
Learn to argue with ancaps without resorting to ridiculous "what if everybody just died?" scenarios that will never actually happen or resorting to massive strawmen.
>>
>>122138308

Ancaps are the masters of strawman, though.

>OMG you think that the government should exist, THAT'S LITERALLY COMMUNISM
>>
>>122138308
Well, we have to do what if's because the ideology is childish. There is no such thing as anarcho-capitalism. Anarchy means no rulers. Not even voluntary rulers aka bosses. I hate communists but ancoms are more for anarchy than you are. Anarchy is retarded but at least ancoms are less retarded.
>>
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>>122137544
>If I own a raw material like lumber, then all goods that need wood are indirectly mine.
Good point. Oh, will you look at that? I own the idea of digits repeating, so I'm afraid I'll need that $500 ($400 triples and $100 doubles) you owe me now.
>>
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>>122138145
>Basically yeah
>>
>>122138534
This

>Government is one person and all forms of government are exactly the same.
>>
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>>122138598
I never thought I'd find another group/ideology that requires more mental gymnastics than National Bolshevism
>>
>>122138598
>Not even voluntary rulers
That's retarded.

This would make even sports impossible.
>>
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>>122138145
>It doesn't explain anything
You're pushing it with these troll tactics. The simple answer is the companies agree on a court before the conflict.

>The current system works fine
No. When you have more control over the justice system instead of a monopoly that gets to do whatever the fuck it wants. Like the tax funded private prison looking to imprison as many people as possible with the help of the monopoly or Sweden where politics get in the way of justice and preventing further crime.
>>
>>122138806

Indeed, anarchy is extremely retarded. And yet here you are.
>>
>>122138912
No, your strawman description of anarchy is retarded.
>>
>>122138806
Exactly. That's how retarded anarchy is.
>>
>>122138598
The word faggot means "bundle of sticks" guys! Haha look at this alternate definition I found guess you guys are super embarrassed now, huh?

>>122138534
Nobody has said that, just that the state is bad and violates property rights.
"ancaps are the masters of strawmen" he says, as he deploys a new one on the next line
>>
>>122138877

>The simple answer is the companies agree on a court before the conflict.

If I'm accused of murder, I'm not going to agree to ANY court unless I'm forced to. You cannot force me to court without violating NAP. Under the current system, this isn't a problem, because the government can just force people to stand for trial if there is enough evidence to justify it. But under ancap? If I refuse to show up, then there is NOTHING you can do stop me from ignoring you and your kangaroo court.
>>
>>122138990
Anarchy means absent of authority. Which fucking means that having private property and having authority over it means it is not anarchy.
>>
>>122138877
How is this not white genocide?
>>
>>122139107
Only if you're a poorfag.
>>
>>122139106
That's why it would be stipulated in the contract that if you were accused of a crime you'd be subject to investigation. Who the hell would insure you otherwise?
>>
>>122138145
Hard currency. Refute hard currency

>>122137884
Point taken. What makes you think that a bisuness partner doesnt want success however? If one party doesmt benifit, the deals off.

>>122137651
Enforce it yourself
Petition your community
Aquire weapons
Private court
NAP
Physical removal

By the time they get to private court, they will have to concede or risk their entire reputation. Nobody wants to associate themselves with authoriarian institutions that breach fundamental rights.
>>
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>>122138647
>Basically yeah
>>
>>122139244
>The poor don't have authority like the rich.

Congratulations you aren't a anarchist.
>>
>>122138990

>just that the state is bad and violates property rights.

The state defends property rights more often than not. If somebody steals your shit, you can call the police and they'll try to get it back.

>>122139251

>That's why it would be stipulated in the contract that if you were accused of a crime you'd be subject to investigation.

Why would I sign a contract that could lead to me being put on trial for something that I didn't even do? Fuck that shit.
>>
>>122139281
What about the poorfags who don't have the same authority as these men? This just means a few makes the decisions while the many do not.
>>
>>122139107
So? Find a better name for anarcho-capitalism, then. Pointing out that the name is dumb doesn't actually refute the ideology.
>>
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Buying assets with electrons - what do you mean the portfolio rebalancing and signalling channel don't work?

>Basically yeah
>>
>>122139436
The existence of state police presupposes a violation of property rights. The violation of property by the state must occur before the state can protect you. Private security exist and can exist.
>>
>>122139436
You can get put on trial under a government as well. At least this way you have a choice in the matter and can work to improve the system more effectively. If you can't be bothered and you want to go against all institutions in society the go ahead. You can reject any court just fine today. See what happens.
>>
>>122139472

>Find a better name for anarcho-capitalism, then.

Privatism or propertarianism. It would still be stupid, but at least the name would make more sense.
>>
>>122139468
>what are fundamental rights
I agree that anarchy is stupid, having a limited government which gives power to the individual is more practical. But everyone has fundamental rights.
>>
>>122139472
Plutocracy.

The rule of the rich. Where the rich and those who have the most money make the final decisions.
>>
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https://www.richmondfed.org/~/media/richmondfedorg/publications/research/working_papers/2000/pdf/wp00-3.pdf

>Basically yeah
>>
>>122139107
Anarchy is a stateless society based on voluntary associations.

Your definition is only defended by commie retards who can't even understand Proudhon.
>>
>>122139678
I agree. I'm a guild socialist. I don't believe government should be in the economy but I also want the worker to have say. To have a balance between worker and employer
>>
>>122139706
Yup. And the beautiful thing is everyone has equal opportunity to be rich. And no one can attack the poor on the basis of them being poor.
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>>122139592

>You can get put on trial under a government as well.

Yeah, that's kinda the point. If somebody breaks the law, the government can force them to trial. But what happens under ancap? There is NO reason why I would EVER agree to a trial unless I'm guaranteed to win. You CANNOT force me to trial without violating NAP. I will completely ignore your kangaroo court and there is NOTHING that you can do about it.
>>
>>122139706
Plutocracy is defined as a governmental entity.
>>
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>Basically yeah
>>
>>122139883
Not everyone has equal opportunity to be rich in capitalism though.
>>122139952
Which is why capitalism is never anarchy :^)
>>
>>122140062
le epic word spinning refutation of the market

i love stalin now
>>
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Worst IPO ever.

>basically yeah!
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>>122140121

>Everybody who doesn't agree with ancap is Stalin
>>
>>122139886
Fine join the mafia then. Good luck. Courts exist today because society wants them to exist. Why the would everyone just go to war instead of picking the companies that prefer a certain private court?

>You CANNOT force me to trial without violating NAP.
Muh NAP! Oh no. Entire ideology gone to shit. If you're suspect of a murder and you don't have an insurer and you're not willing to cooperate you're basically not working with society. Who gives a shit what happens to you?
>>
>>122140335
>argument eight bonanzo coffee refute fat coconut oceans
>ke monkey facer
lazer booms

[insert reaction iamge[
>>
>>122139952

And what stops a group of rich people from just creating a new government?
>>
>>122123085
Why libertarianism is better then communism? Both are memes
>>
>>122140545
What enables them to? Are they just going to take over entire swaths of land by force and in the process out-gun all of the protection forces employed by the entire area combined, and then somehow avoid court and suffer hideous reputational losses regarding the keeping of contracts and contempt of court and they'd just be fine and suffer no losses?
>>
>>122140599
That's a total non-sequitur. Which part of libertarianism is a 'meme'?
>>
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>>122140420

So basically in this society you can just murder anybody without consequences as long as the people you're killing can't afford insurance? Okay. You realize that this would LITERALLY lead to people harvesting the homeless for organs right? That's not even a joke, it WOULD happen.
>>
>>122140599
Libertarians are neglectful parents
Communists are like abusive parents.

I'd rather be ignored than beaten. By the end of the day, both are terrible.
>>
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>>122140810
>harvesting the homeless for organs
Problem?
>>
>>122139472
Whiteism, Christianism, or Americaism
>>
>>122140599
Why is living better than dying? Both are memes
>>
>>122140810
Well, no, because people don't want to live next to murderers and you wouldn't go into a supermarket that didn't prohibit murder on their property.
>>
>>122140762
Ability to survive and don't switch to protostate.
>>
>>122139886
Contractual obligations. If you do not attend you breach this that and the other and an investigation will occur and look at that you have to attend court or else you will be physicaly removed.

>>122140062
Yeah. Idiots dont get rich unless they are hard workers and come across large opportunity by coincidence of the actions if others, lazy people are the same.

We should allow retards and the lazy and the poor an opportunity to be rich. Fundamental rights and a universal recognition of these rights become possible. People fail because of a reason.

>>122140545
NAP. They can create groups and shit, if they want to inpose their will on others, they are breaching rights and will be physicaly removed.

>>122140810
Nope. Murder breaches the NAP and fundanental rights. Without consent and a contractual obligation they cannot do it or their entire reputation will be ruined forever.
>>
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>>122140761

>What enables them to?

They have money, resources, and connections. Hey, if some rich guy like Bill Gates or Donald Trump said he was going to start his own country I'd totally go along with it. It would be better than living in ancap-ville. Maybe they'd even give me a fiefdom for my years of faithful service. Might as well give it a shot.
>>
>>122140961
U mad.
>>
>>122141151
If it would be better than living in ancapville then why can't your citizenship there be on a contractual subscription to the "government"?
>>
>>122141102
I'm sorry I don't follow. Are you saying we would not have an ability to survive?

For a start, I'm a Minarchist, so the state still exists. /lrg/ =/= /ancap/
>>
>>122141088

People being killed for organs ALREADY occurs in countries where the government is too weak to maintain order. It's not a theoretical concept at all. This shit happens.
>>
>>122141115
I'm all for equal opportunity to achieve great things. I just believe man's skills and abilities are more than just quantitative things. I believe in equal starts but not equal results.
>>
>>122141459
If you lived in Ancapistan would you contract with a company that did something about these murders or would you just let it continue?
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>>122141151
>Hey, if some rich guy like Bill Gates or Donald Trump said he was going to start his own country I'd totally go along with it
The irony, of course being, that under the current nation states, you don't have the ability to do that, and would be locked up for attempting it.

This 'new' country started by Gates would no doubt have voluntary contracts - you agree to the taxation, and he protects you, provides borders, and a judicial court of law.

Congratulations, you're a Libertarian.
>>
>>122141542
equal starts is literally impossible and is only somewhat feasible under entire totalitarianism

>>122141459
the key word is government
as in, a monopoly on protection
as in, there is only one single protection agency there and it is bad
as in, this is as much of an argument against the market as "supermarkets don't work in free markets because this one country has a supermarket monopoly mandated by the government and the supermarket there doesn't even sell bread"
>>
>>122125178
1 7 7 6
7
7
6
>>
>>122141732
But these people live in reality, and there is no such contract for police force to maintain order.

Why would I start a business to fight organ stealers, and to protect people who have little to no money? There is no profit motive.
>>
>>122141837
I believe people are inequal. I see capitalism and communism to oppressor of true individuality.
>>
>>122141973
the city or town planner would probably just have a requirement upon buying property there which states "don't kill people"
that's all it takes
>>
>>122141732
Why would I want to protect poor people who have little to no money when I could just steal their organs for more money?
>>
>>122141973
>there is no such contract for police force to maintain order
See you haven't been paying attention.

>protect people who have little to no money
So you don't care if plebs get BTFO right next door to you? Then why should you be forced to pay for it with taxes? Enjoy your community. Sounds cool.
>>
>>122142257
So a gun free zone?
>>
>>122142362
Look. If I have the money to start a police force, I wouldn't stay in that area. I'll just move.
>>
>>122142365
no, a zone in which you would be punished or taken to court for killing somebody, for the purpose that people would pay more to live in such a zone
>>
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>>122124003
>Hans-Hermann "Get to the chopper I'm the commie stopper" Hoppe
>>
>>122142487
So, I'm forced to go to court? So government is the solution?
>>
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Reminder that libertarianism only works if you live in a world ruled by white males (something only NatSoc can provide)
>>
>>122141115

>Contractual obligations.

I'm not going to sign any contract that allows somebody else to put me on trial without my permission. I'm not going to surrender my freedom to a private entity that easily.

>NAP.

Not a real thing unless somebody can enforce it. It's like saying that with no government things will be fine because everybody will just follow the 10 Commandments.

>>122141732

The demand for organs is really fucking high dude. A kidney = $250,000. A heart = $1,000,000 dollars. A liver = $500,000. Even bone marrow is sellable for thousands of dollars. It would be too profitable to NOT do it. And since none of the people that we're killing have "insurance" nobody would stop us.
>>
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>>122141459
That's why enforcement of the NAP is paramount to the society. Anyone who breaches it should get helicopter ride.

As a Minarchist Libertarian I believe the state is best in place to achieve this. If not, private military will.
>inb4 they don't exist
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/30-most-powerful-private-security-companies-world-dominic-a-ienco

>>122142609
Wrong, border enforcement is a key principle of /lrg/. We want to trade with the black man, but at a distance.
>>
>>122142445
>plebs stay behind
>they kill each other off
>property becomes cheap as hell
>but it all
>clear out the vermin
Job done. Also it's a ridiculous scenario. Even poor people can pay for security. It's a service market.
>>
>>122142257

>the city or town planner would probably just have a requirement upon buying property there which states "don't kill people"

>the city or town planner

So there is a local government. Okay.
>>
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>>122142591
You violated a natural law right of another sovereign being. You must answer to the person(s) family with restitution and or necessary retribution.
>>
>>122142591
no, you're not forced. you can choose not to go to court. your contract with your place of residence would be null and void, though, and you would be physically removed from the city and would be put on a global register of murderers and court dodgers
>>
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>>122142859
>Town planning

That's called a mayor
>>
>>122142859
if you're willing to define a supermarket as a micro-government then sure, there's government, but then you're losing the initial idea of what state is - coercive and without contract.
>>
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I am yet to see an anti-/lrg/ argument that doesn't presuppose some ridiculous hypothetical world in which everyone is hellbent on everyone else's destruction.

The mere course of human history, from tribal nomads to galaxy exploration should tell you everything you need to know in terms of cooperation and community sense ingrained in human consciousness.
>>
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>>122142725
>Wrong, border enforcement is a key principle of /lrg/. We want to trade with the black man, but at a distance.
ooh my mistake you're another closet fascist too scared and brainwashed to swallow the redpill (for now)
>>
>>122142790

>Even poor people can pay for security.

Literally how does a homeless person afford enough security to keep the organ harvesters at bay?
>>
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>>122142989
Why?

Sounds like a social contract.
>>
>>122143175

>terms of cooperation and community sense ingrained in human consciousness.

This is true. And government is a natural product of that.
>>
>>122142712
If nobody wants to pay for protection against it why do we pay for an inefficient monopoly through taxes? If nobody wanted such protection why not just vote against such laws and have the government crack down on hobos and start supplying them sweet sweet fresh organs?

>>122143319
>homeless person
On whose street is he starving? Hopefully not mine.
>>
>>122143175
HOL UP
*smacks child*
SO U BE SAYIN
*sends child to public school to avoid being shot*
U BE SAYIN DAT
*files taxes worth 60% of one's income so that they can be redistributed to third world immigrants for left wing votes*
DAT U CAN WEEZEL UR WAY OUT OF THIS ONE??
::
what if someone bought LITERALLY everything including you and then destroyed it all?
>>
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>>122143258
No, I have free will and wish to exercise it without an authoritarian government telling me what to do and when.

But keep LARPing on the internet as a fascist whilst you drink your Kenyan coffee beans.
>>
>>122143175
Childish ideologies get childish arguments.
>>
>>122123085
What about all of us sensible moderates that attack each issue with critical thinking and logic? Are we to be removed as well?
>>
>>122143477

>If nobody wants to pay for protection against it why do we pay for an inefficient monopoly through taxes?

Because believe it or not, I like living in a place where people aren't harvested for organs if they're overdue on rent for two weeks.
>>
Libertarians are like liberals. They believe in this black vs white moral crusade.
>>
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>>122143583
>>
>>122143458
>And government is a natural product of that.
*voluntary cooperation
Not an Orwellian state taxing me at 50% so they can support another nigger child and start another pointless war.
>>
>>122143319
so people would just run the risk of killing whoever they want and hoping that they are one of the very few people who isn't covered by protection and hoping that the people around them don't care that they're a murderer and the property owner of the property that they're murdering on really likes murder too
>>
>>122134276
>Implying that 5 dollars is worth more than 1000000 real, high quality Johnny Cash-cash
>>
>>122143930
>can support another nigger child


Still thinks only blck people collect welfare.

Wake up.
>>
>>122143728
fascists are like liberals. they believe in this black vs white moral crusade
>>
>>122143692
>I like living in a place where people aren't harvested for organs
Yeah, no shit. Me too. You people always come up with this "Save everybody!" attitude. Guess what. The government isn't saving everybody. Shit like that happens under governments all the time. And I like how you're your own argument against shit like that happening. You say you care about people getting fucked by organ harvesters yet you presume nobody will give a shit under an ancap system. So ridiculous.
>>
>>122144060
It's tongue and cheek you spanner.
>>
>>122143692
so you're saying you'd prefer to live in a location where people agreed to not harvest the organs of poor people?
cool, if people agree with you then such a society would be profitable.
>>
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>>122143617

>Government disappears
>Rich people instantly form a new government, only this time there is no democracy so you have even less power in the system

>>122144036

>so people would just run the risk of killing whoever they want

What risk? These people that we're killing don't have "insurance" or at least not enough to stop my team of organ harvesters. There is no risk. It's like slaughtering chickens.

>>122144107

>The government isn't perfect so we shouldn't have any government
>>
>>122144396
Would you prefer to live in an area in which people aren't habitually slaughtered for their organs?
>>
>>122144093
Except that they don't. Fascism is like a canvas ideology. Fascism in europe will be different from fascism in the arab world. We don't believe that in every soul, there is a liberal, libertarian, ancap, or ancom. Neo cons are just the trostkyites of the libertarians. While ancaps are just the leninists. Both want the same thing but through different means.

Neo cons and ancaps both want a capitalist world. Neo cons just realize overthrowing socialists is the best way, while ancaps whine about the wars despite being for them.

I don't fight for the sake of humanity. I fight for the sake of organic cultures around the world. I don't believe all men are individuals nor do I see them as a blob of one race.
>>
>>122144396
>>Rich people instantly form a new government, only this time there is no democracy so you have even less power in the system
Fortunately we have property laws to prevent this. Libertarians also aren't an-caps, Government won't 'disappear'.
>>
>>122144396
>The government isn't perfect so we shouldn't have any government
Yea that's exactly it. I think the market works better.
>>
>>122144559
all men are literally individuals
you didn't actually make any arguments. i want the state to fuck off. i think it is a good idea. i think it will help people. i do not call people evil for thinking otherwise, i do not think fascists evil, socialists evil or communists evil. i think that they are wrong. calling ancaps the capitalist equivalent of leninists does nothing. i am not going to topple world governments by force. i just want to live on a society without a government.
>>
>>122144583

>Libertarians also aren't an-caps

Oh sorry, you're not ancap? All my arguments are specifically geared towards ancaps sorry for the mix-up. Carry on you're free to go.

>>122144693

>Implying the government and the market can't co-exist
>>
Wew, I'm going to have to make a new thread at this rate to continue our discussions.

/lrg/ is growing.

>>122144836
As you were then.
>>
>>122144396
Your argument is that it's initially a little unstable so new governments might form? No shit.
>>
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>>122144836
>government and the law/security market can co-exist
>>
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>>122144554

>Would you prefer to live in an area in which people aren't habitually slaughtered for their organs?

I already do live in such a place.
>>
>>122144970
You didn't actually answer, but I'll assume you mean yes.
As such, you would be willing to pay more money to live in that place.
Taking a man to court to face the fees that a court selected by (You) would do unto him for murder would in fact be a profitable endeavour. (You) could take the murder to court and if the proceeds go nowhere else then they would go to (You)!
>>
>>122144787
Then you are no better than the SJWs who demand all individuals to be respect no matter how degenerate it is.

You want to live in a society without government. Aka no socialists, no communists, no fascists. You say that government starts wars. Again, you say you aren't for these wars, yet are for them when it comes to the American government toppling statists and replacing it with a less statist ideology.
>>
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>>122143617
sure thing mate, have fun when the billions of refugees kick you out of your house
>>
Why does everyone have to be forced to accept your ideology? No everyone wants anarchy. You would have to use force.
>>
What's your guys' stance on race? Will you let nonWhites into our borders?

What's your opinion of Rockwell's World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialist?
>>
>>122145215
>what are borders
>>
>>122145365
No they wouldn't. We would just have our territory where we enact our own rules.
>>
NEW

>>122145495
>>
>>122145487
But you would have to topple government though aka force and coercion. War.
>>
>>122145487
In order to stop war, you would have to have a global revolution. Aka a world war.
>>
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>>122145430
>what is libertarianism
babies first day among libcucks?
>>
>>122145574
It would be self-defense in that case. However like most anarcho-capitalist I believe we can convince people and if enough people desist from paying taxes and disregarding the state, then we wouldn't need violence. A lot of people we might convince might be government workers, police officers, soldiers and etc.

It would also be interesting in that (as you might respond) the government might choose to escalate it's actions if the number of anarcho-capitalists increases in that territory. This would further prove the point of the anarcho-capitalist.
>>
>>122145666
I haven't set that Utopian goal
>>
>>122145918
>If everyone agrees then the world will be a better place.

What are you five? This assumes everyone will just accept it. You would need violence and to purge the statists who are not in government power. Basically, what the Bolsheviks did.
>>
>>122146369
As I said.

1. People could use force to defend themselves

2. Most likely people could vote in ancaps who would dissolve the government

3. Or people would simply reject the government's authority

Are they going to arrest 100,000 tax protestors? The UK prison population is 89,000.




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