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Previous arguments >>122123085

This thread is for Discussion of Capitalism, Libertarianism, Paleolibertarianism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Minarchism, and the PHYSICAL REMOVAL of COMMUNIST FAGS from our board of peace. Reminder that this is the Libertarian RIGHT General. Aleppo Johnson-fags, Left-Libertarians, and other Shit-Libs need to fuck off. Voice your complaints to r/libertarian.

>Recommended Reading list
http://www.libertarianright.org/reading/

>Vanilla /lrg/ pastebin- CREATE IF YOU DONT SEE ONE IN THE CATALOG
http://pastebin.com/7K1EJYb8

>Bump for Life, Liberty, and Private Death Squads
>>
How would you transition into a ancap world without war?
>>
>>122145790
>everyone elects an ancap parliament
>dissolve parliament forever
>>
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>>122145495
>>122145168

I don't know what your point even is. There are some problems the free market just can't solve because it isn't profitable to solve them, but still has to be done for purely moral reasons. Sometimes, doing the right thing just isn't profitable. Ancap has no answer to these situations.
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Reminder that libertarianism is only possible in a world ruled by white males (something only NatSoc can provide)

>inb4 cucks complain about muh ebil nazi government
>>
ANARCHO-CAPITALIST TRADIONAL CATHOLIC WITH OLD SOUTHERN ARISTOCRATIC CULTURE MASTER RACE
>>
>>122145860
All government in the world would have to consent, which is unlikely. It would require a U.N. type thing. Aka globalism.
>>
>>122145894

Reminder that nazi germany was the freest society of the past century
>>
>>122145894
This is RIGHT libertarianism. Not left egalitarian shit. Learn the difference, read the OP.
>>
where does the food come from?
>>
So, /lrg/, yellow/black pill me on agorism.
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>>122145495

am i too moderate for this thread
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>>122145879
>doing the right thing just isn't profitable
Are you retarded? If there's demand for such a service there's gonna be supply, making the companies that would provide these services money.
>>
>>122145970
>All government in the world would have to consent, which is unlikely
What??
I'm talking about one area or country.

>>122146092
What the fuck? Is food provided by the state in Britain?
>>
>>122145495

How do you feel about borders, lad?
>>
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>Anarchy
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>>122146273
farming subsidies are a huge thing just about everywhere.
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>>122146221

And what if the market demand for something that is completely immoral is higher than the market demand for getting rid of it?
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>>122146209
Hurricane Katrina was because of capitalism people.
>>
>>122145495
>lolbertardian general
this will be fun
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Reactionary liberty is the only way
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>>122146362
>huge thing
Most don't receive it. Even if they do, it is paid for by taxes. There's no magical money tree.
>>
>>122146273
Then you are just wanting a state (with borders, laws, and a land owner who makes the laws) that simply has a free market.
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>>122146411
Ask the taxpayers for money for more bombs to start wars, I guess.
>>
>>122145970
Assertion without an argument

>>122145894
This is quite wrong. A big reason why whites can't congregate together is because of diversity quotas which use state violence to break up white enclaves and government intervention which sends non-whites into whites neighbourhoods to 'diversify' the area.

Another issue is that people are forced to hand over their children to state schools that indoctrinate children into multiculturalism and teach anti-white rhetoric. Anti-white propaganda and racism is subsidized by the government through tax cuts for companies that meet diversity quotas, affirmative action and through the funding of public radio and TV.
>>
>>122146209
I hope the ancaps ITT will not respond to posts like these
>>
>>122146534
I'm a Minarchist
>The state to exist solely to protect citizens from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. >Minarchists generally propose that the only legitimate governmental institutions are the military, police, and courts.
>>
>>122146588
How else would you have global anarchy?
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>>122146291
They must be enforced, strictly. JFs out.
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>>122146092
mummy just puts a plate with tendies in front of the door
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>>122146758
Why don't you start thinking about the assertion you made before and start fleshing it out which will prove you aren't a waste of time.
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>>122146355
>An (Without)
>Archon (Master)

>Unironically posting a puke meme against people who don't believe in slavery.

Kys.
>>
>>122146876
Could you please translate this for me into French
>>
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>where does the food come from

This should be a new meme desu.
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>>122146951
Well, i'm not a child who believes in anarchy. Stupid assertions are given to stupid ideologies.

You said, I had no argument, yet gave no argument.
>>
>>122146551

Sometimes that is unfortunately necessary. Sometimes the morally correct outcome isn't the outcome which lines up best with profit. Ancap has no answer to these situations. If we go purely by the free market, then chattel slavery was a very good thing, because it was quite profitable for the people who engaged in such activities. The free market didn't abolish slavery. It couldn't. The market wanted slavery to continue. The government had to step in and say "this is immoral, you are not allowed to do this, no matter how profitable it might be."
>>
>>122146963
A boss is a master. Ancaps aren't anarchists.
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>>122146165
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>>122146505
your an retard

farms are subsidised to make food cheaper (though the cost is paid for by taxes, the richer end normally pays more of this burden)
so when a libby society comes up, doesn't tax and expects the free market to raise food prices but that's okay because nobody's paying taxes, you'll be shocked to discover you're inexplicably importing food.
In fact, this happens to a whole range of industries. People move there to avoid taxation, and import goods that other countries taxpayers pay for.
And then soon enough those countries have your libertarian paradise by the balls, because you don't have any farmers, or anyone ready to take up those jobs when those exporters jack up tariffs.

So good fucking job starving everyone... again
>>
>>122146989
Maman met juste une assiette avec des nuggets devant la porte
I can't translate tendies, I never understood what it was exactly
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who /confederate ancap/ here?
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>>122147152
>What is entrepreneurship, self-reliance, personal responsibility.
>>
>>122147083
Stupid assertions are a reflection of the author's mental capacity. Your assertion just showed that you are incapable of reasoning and since anarcho-capitalism is a rational approach to statecraft you have just signaled that you are a waste of time since you can't reason or reject rationality.

In the meanwhile you've experienced voluntary disassociation. A recurrent theme in anarcho-capitalism.
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>>122146588

>Implying that diversity quotas won't get BTFO now that conservatives control the SCOTUS again

Wow, voting worked!
>>
>>122147089
>the state kills millions of people needlessly on a regular basis
>let's rely on these cunts for imposing morality
Nope.

>The free market didn't abolish slavery.
Machines were a huge part in abolishing slavery. You think the government made that happen?

>The government had to step in and say "this is immoral
The government also subsidized it for a long fucking time. Since ancient history.
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>>122145495
:^)
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>2017
>not being a Distributist

Cucks
>>
>>122147291
Tendies are fried (or baked) chicken tenders. Google that.

Google translate gave two suggestions

blanc de poulet, escalope de poulet
>>
>>122147323
>The richer makes the final decisions. The poor don't.

>>122147359
Blah blah blah, something LOGIC blah blah blah REASON blah blah blah

You are just cliche aren't you? You had no argument. I gave an argument, and you refuse to rebuttal.
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>>122147483
>235 votes
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Mutualism is better than ancapism.
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>>122147284
Supply and demand is not a concept you are well versed on, clearly.

If food becomes expensive (lets ignore this retarded hypothetical scenario in which a nation of cheaper food producers decide for some unknown reason to set tariffs) then a new firm will enter the market, probably a domestic one.

Nations also have a comparative advantage and specialise in what they are good at producing. David Ricardo wrote about this back in 1772 and in 2017 you can't grasp this concept.
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>>122147645
>235 anons don't count

Take your degenerate bullshit back to plebbit
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>>122147624
>All government in the world would have to consent,
Why?

> which is unlikely. It would require a U.N. type thing. Aka globalism.
Why?
>>
>>122147624
>>The richer makes the final decisions. The poor don't.

What are you even saying. A central bank with a fiat currency wouldn't even exist. Besides that, eventually virtue and gifting economies would undermine that of monetary and ultimately kill the illusion of money and give us the true MON (ONE) EY (EYE) of knowledge, which is giving to others because you know it comes back to you in some way, always. So shortsighted. Stop thinking merely with the left brain there buckaroo.
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>>122147448

>the state kills millions of people needlessly on a regular basis

A very curious claim. Care to back it up with evidence?

>Machines were a huge part in abolishing slavery.

Plantation owners did not release free all their slaves overnight just because some new-fangled machine was invented. The US army came in and freed the slaves.

>The government also subsidized it for a long fucking time

True. But then through the power of democracy, the people were able to install a new government that abolished slavery.
>>
>>122147516
we don't really make the distinction between tendies and nuggets in colloquial speech, nuggets isn't even translated. Blanc de poulet and escalope usually refers to the piece of chicken without the breadcrumbs
>>
>>122147903
Because anarchy is internationalist and if a state refuses to to accept anarchy then you wouldn't have anarcho capitalism. All government need to disolve at once or a state will simply take over the balkinized ancap communties across the globe.
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>>122147795

Yeah, but do you really want to be completely dependent on other countries for your food supply?
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These libertarian right threads are chocked full of left brained parasitic subhuman sub-130 iq trash that cannot comprehend the simple laws of the creator. What a waste of time. Later nigger cattle, just remember eugenics ultimate expression of itself is absolute freedom. Whites rule in a contributionist and anarchic society.
>>
>>122147795
or maybe you're just not grasping the issue. Don't pretend I don't understand supply and demand just because you're too stupid to see the problem.
the food isn't expensive because it is imported.
there is no "supply goes up to meet demand, because it's a good place to capitalise"
Doesn't make it that far.
So then the issue becomes that your reliant on imports- so you'd better pray to whatever gods you have that you have something to export in turn. And all things held equal, the only thing you really have to offer is cheaper labour.
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>>122146092
>where does the food come from?
Somebody turn this into a fucking brain meme of arguments against libertarianism and put this at the end
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>>122148205
>Yeah, but do you really want to be completely dependent on other countries for your food supply?
Again, a totally ridiculous hypothetical argument. After transport costs and transactions costs, THERE IS NO WORLD in which it is cheaper to buy basic food which I can plant in my back garden now than it would be to import it across half the world.

The price goes up a bit? Well guess what, I employ some local people to grow my garden, and I sell it at the market.

The reason the West are no longer farmers are because we can all achieve higher seeking jobs. Do not mistake that for an inability to farm.
>>
>>122147926
You do realize the wars in the middle east are about privatizing banks? Ghadaffi, Saddam, and Assad all have/had state owned banks. It was those who wanted the free up the market who wanted those wars.

Also, the gold standard is a meme. There isn't enough gold in the world to have a true capitalist world. If one nation doesn't have a gold standard then it can just be a new fiat currency situation where they inflate the military to overthrow the gold standard nations.
>>
>>122148269
Stay and argue with them. Bring them around.
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>>122148454

But farmland itself in finite. The government therefore has an interest in protecting that farmland from being developed and paved over. Any finite resource has to be regulated to prevent it from being squandered. And this is honestly something it needs to do more of. We're losing too many farm fields to land developers building new houses for retiring baby boomers.
>>
So what if I shared a pond with another covenant and I shat in my part of the pond but it floats over to him, causing the death of his children that ate the shit, mistaking it for a fish floating at the surface ?

Am I to blame and can he retaliate, because it was a passive violation of the NAP or is it fine, because I simply had to do it ?
>>
>>122145914
are you literally me?
>>
>>122146209
>114 million native Americans

>Only one million Germans killed in concentration camps by Americans
>>
>>122148419
>the food isn't expensive because it is imported.
Because with competition the market price has come down. So in your world, I'm unable to produce anything (of course I can, but I can do better paying jobs, so I choose to) and there is only one other producer who has a monopoly (another impossible scenario). If they raise their price, I will go somewhere else. If they all raise their prices (the only case this happens is OPEC), then I will produce it myself, or someone else will enter the market.
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>>122149133
you're acting as if you could grow food the instant the tariffs go up
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>>122148835
>But farmland itself in finite. The government therefore has an interest in protecting that farmland from being developed and paved over. Any finite resource has to be regulated to prevent it from being squandered. And this is honestly something it needs to do more of. We're losing too many farm fields to land developers building new houses for retiring baby boomers.
Because the market values new houses over farmland. If it didn't, we'd all knock down houses to build farms.
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>>122146649
sorry
>>122146209
Are you fucking retarded? Capitalism is literally just "Hey dude, I have a dollar. Can I get an egg?" NONE OF THE SHIT YOU HAVE LISTED HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH CAPITALISM EXCEPT THAT IT HAPPENED UNDER A CAPITALIST SOCIETY
BUT OH FUCKING WAIT
HALF OF THOSE THINGS DIDNT EVEN HAPPEN WHEN CAPITALISM WAS A THING YOU FUCKING RETARD
GET A HELIUM TANK AND OFF YOURSELF, COURTESY OF CAPITALISM
>>
>>122148044
>A very curious claim.
>American
Makes sense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

>the power of democracy
Explain why ancap would lead to slavery. It's more likely a state would go full tyrannical despite being initially democratic. Like with Hitler. Also thanks to the actions of your wonderful democracy Libya now has open market slave auctions.
>>
>>122149287

>Because the market values new houses over farmland.

And that's the problem. The market always favors short-term profit regardless of long-term consequences.
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>>122149267
Of course I couldn't, but I would expect that I have a contract with my supplier that he will provide me x food at x price for x time. I can also take out financial contracts to hedge against the price fluctuating (as many farmers currently do).

The entire economy is built on confidence and foresight.
>>
>>122149409
>The market always favors short-term profit regardless of long-term consequences
[citation needed]

And who are you to determine what is worthwhile in the long run?
>>
>>122149429
>but no confidence in government

who's enforcing those contracts? your private army?
>>
>>122146700
Who decides what they enforce? That's literally the entire point of the legislature, and your idea precludes the other two concepts set up in the majority of democratic republics.

It seems like that type of government generally creeps into an authoritarian (((republic))) over time.
>>
>>122149683
A judicial court of law, like any contract breach.
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>>122148989
>>122148989

Answer my toth-approved question, please.
>>
>>122149346

>Explain why ancap would lead to slavery.

Because slavery is quite profitable in some areas. The only reason it stopped is because the government stepped in to outlaw it. The government stepped in and said "no, this is immoral, you may not do this, no matter how profitable it might be for you."

>>122149550

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
>>
>>122148835
You've stumbled upon a fundamental point of contention within the capitalist v. socialist debate.

Socialists advocate for central-planning by a government as you are now. You are advocating that the government allocate how the land should be used.

Capitalist would leave this to the free market. This means all the actors (persons, groups, organisations and businesses) through voluntary cooperation decide to trade their economic resources together. This produces the best allocation of goods. In fact communists in Soviet Russia initially refused to even put prices on economic resources (things of value that are rare or finite in quantity).

Later on they had. Prices gave a good indication of what was in demand and was not.

> Any finite resource has to be regulated to prevent it from being squandered
Regulation does more harm than good. Finite resources would be allocated based on price. Say I have a huge swath of land far away from the city and far away from a suburban area. It wouldn't be in my interest to develop housing. If my land is fertile I might grow corn, and let's say the soil I have is perfect for corn but not for tomatoes, potatoes or anything else besides corn. Meaning if I grow corn and say the entire processing of planting, watering, protecting, and harvesting my crop per year is $600,000. This is regardless of whether I plant tomato, carrots or potatoes.

Since my goal is profit I want the plant which will yield the most fruit. Since the soil is suited to corn. I'll plant corn since if I planted tomatoes I wouldn't get as much yield and I might find that the plants begin to rot or become vulnerable to insects.

By simply setting profit as my goal, which wouldn't be hard to impose on people since when people decide to open a business they do so mostly with the express purpose of making money, the free market has allocated the resources to their best use simply because the best use is the most profitable.
>>
>>122145860

>fiat currency collapses
>enforcement power of state fails
>"i won't shoot folks for free!"
>wtf we're somalia now
>people choose
>some choose to be assholes and form ministates
>others choose not to be assholes and remain ancap because it's the natural state of mankind
>anbaps meanwhile never even notice and thrive
>now they are having fifteen or twenty living children a family
>now one hurts them because they are the only ones who know how to do anything at all anymore and unless you want to go to los angeles and play cannibal durby they are good to have around
>eventually all other ways of life die out
>all n. america becomes a pristine wilderness speckled with anbap colonies which never exceed 250 people
>hunting, fishing, gathering all possible again
>massive forests harvested by two-man saw and mules
>innovations in beauty and truth we cannot even imagine
>a thousand years later, everyone has become indigenous again
>the end
>>
>>122147645
I remember voting for something like this and the results came out as like 50% 50% libertarian/fascist
>>
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Equality is a false god
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>>122150061
>99.99% of everyone who lived in the country is now dead
>this is a good thing
>>
>>122149927
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
Top kekekek - this is an argument in favour of private property. To solve it read Coase Theorum.

It is is mostly perpetuated by the state. For more read: https://www.libertariannews.org/2012/07/15/the-state-is-a-tragedy-of-the-commons-3/
>>
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>>122150218
I think we'd get along all right.
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>>122145996
>▶
>>>122145894
>Reminder that nazi germany was the freest society of the past century
>not the European monarchies predating the end of WWI
Hitler should have reinstated monarchy like he promised, we wouldn't be in this mess if he did.
>>
>>122150267

Something went wrong.
>>
>>122150435
Fucked up my post. was only meant for>>122145996
>>
Anyone here looking forward to Caplan's new book?
>>
>>122150423
>Neo-Lib
fuck off hill dawg
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>>122149927
>The only reason it stopped is because the government stepped in to outlaw it.

>Britain gets industrialized
>doesn't need slaves anymore
>bans slavery

>the north gets industrialized
>doesn't need slaves anymore
>bans slavery
>the south still needs them
>war
It had fuck all to do with morality. It was always about control. If it were still profitable for the upper echelon of society it would still be done.

>Because slavery is quite profitable in some areas.
Specific examples and why the fuck would a government solve it more effectively than the market. Women forced into prostitution are forced into slavery more often because prostitution is illegal. Who would go to such a shady brothel if it were legal?
>>
Nice to see that you faggots scare away from real debate.

Typical Libetarian faggots.

>dude weed lmao
>420 blaze it broseph watson lel
>lel open borders ;DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Fuck you and your crypto-Jesus Gary Johnson. Fucking faggots.
>>
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>>122150061
>fiat currency collapses
Because it is so not collapsing at the moment. Worst IPO ever.

You forgot the part where normal humans (read: 99.99% of the population) form a private military to protect themselves.

Anyway, I'm not an ancap so I cba defending their ideology.
>>
Your comment was beyond ridiculous....Really? What a way to throw in the victim card..


Whites definitely team up once there is a common enemy in their sacred little neighborhoods..They rarely welcome them with open arms...I have no clue what suburbs you have ever been to or lived in where non-whites come into neighborhoods and separated whites...They actually bring them together....How does hiring less qualifed whites over a non white race even help build any establishment...Any real business man would see that is just counterproductive and not wise by any stretch of the imagination...Most of the non-whites were full on being discriminated against..watching whites with lower performances be awarded and promoted..It was just unfair in general.
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>>122150972
Read the OP you spanner.
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>>122150423
>>
>>122151102

>3 posts
>spam
>people the posts are directed to ignore them, because they're faggots
>dude weed open borders lmao
>>
>>122151309
What are you talking about?

Why are you arguing with a non-entity?

>Reminder that this is the Libertarian RIGHT General. Aleppo Johnson-fags, Left-Libertarians, and other Shit-Libs need to fuck off. Voice your complaints to r/libertarian.
>>
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>>122149936

>You are advocating that the government allocate how the land should be used.

This is already accomplished through zoning laws.

>>122150362

It's an argument that resources which are finite should be regulated in such a way to promote sustainability. Actions which a very profitable in the short-term can have very negative long-term consequences. For instance, hydraulic fracturing is extremely profitable but it basically ruins all the surrounding land. In the short-term, it's great because it's very profitable and it provides people with good-paying jobs. But in the long-term, it's terrible because it contaminates ground-water, releases shitloads of methane into the atmosphere, and causes earth-quakes in surrounding areas. It's great for the economy in the short-term, but it's going to be incredibly destructive in the long-term.
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>>122150717
>less than 10% off your chart in any given category
>completely opposing political platform
>>
>>122150988

Americans are too fat, feeble, and deskilled to do provide for their most basic needs in the event of a real economic collapse. Without food, you die, and nothing will prevent it. The only cure for hunger is eating, and the catastrophically tiny number of people who have learned how to or still remember how to make food will not sustain the country's population.

Also, you must factor in petrochem fertilizer which powers most American staple agriculture. That won't be a thing. Neither will powered irrigation or tractors. That means that the Midwest will dustbowl out pretty quickly with disastrous results.

>t. we're fucked
>>
>>122151456
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY-T_4blwrM

Yes, and Coase Theorum solves that.
>>
>>122150814

>Britain gets industrialized
>doesn't need slaves anymore
>bans slavery

So you admit the British government banned slavery? The British slave-owners didn't give it up out of the kindness of their hearts, the government forced them to. The free market supported slavery. The government stepped in an stopped it.
>>
>>122151417

>pretending to disavow of Johnson
>next post: dude weed lmao

Typical rebbit fag, gtfo, you still didn't answer my question
>>
>>122151708
It's probably a transition that would have to be taken very slowly over many years. Or you start from a world of no state.

But yeah, I'm a Minarchist/PaleoLib.
>>
>>122151952
What is your question?
>>
>>122151761
>doesn't need slaves anymore
>The British slave-owners didn't give it up out of the kindness of their hearts
Wat.

It banned it for its colonies to get more influence. That's what really mattered.
>>
>>122152012

>So what if I shared a pond with another covenant and I shat in my part of the pond but it floats over to him, causing the death of his children that ate the shit, mistaking it for a fish floating at the surface ?

>Am I to blame and can he retaliate, because it was a passive violation of the NAP or is it fine, because I simply had to do it ?
>>
>>122151754

I'm not interested in theoretical solutions to real problems. The real solution is simply to tighten environmental protection laws and ban fracking completely. It's immensely profitable in the short-term but incredibly destructive in the long-term. At some point you just have to accept that some issues are too important to leave to chance.
>>
>>122152121
There's no such thing as passive violation of the NAP, you either generate aggression, either by negligence of by intention, or you don't.

In this case, your negligent use of the pond is generating externalities and you would be convinced for manslaughter.
>>
We need more land, and to embrace agrarian life for true libertarianism
>>
>>122152121
>>So what if I shared a pond with another covenant and I shat in my part of the pond but it floats over to him, causing the death of his children that ate the shit, mistaking it for a fish floating at the surface ?
That would be settled in a court of law. Sounds like manslaughter.

>Am I to blame and can he retaliate, because it was a passive violation of the NAP or is it fine, because I simply had to do it ?
That's aggression which would violate the NAP.
>>
>>122145495
where is Nozick in that picture?
>>
>>122151963

Problem is, it cannot
>be taken very slowly over many years
at this point. You probably know this, but it bears mentioning, that because the whole structure of our culture and society is built around a specific State apparatus with a specific history and identity under girding it. I tend to believe it was built to breed as many people as possible so as to have the largest number of human permutations possible in order to harvest workers for the Elite immortality project which has kicked into overdrive over the past twenty years by stealing time and resources from the future to facilitate technological and medical advances for that same immortality project in a desperate race against the consequences of such economic meddling.

I also don't think we're going to make it to their technological singularity finish line. I think shit is hitting the fan really soon.
>>
>>122152111

The government abolished slavery. You can speculate however you wish about the "real motivations" but the fact remains: the government abolished slavery, the market did not. Slavery was profitable for the slave-owners and they had no reason to stop until the government forced them to stop.
>>
>>122146951
That's not an argument
>>
>>122152518
>a specific history and identity under girding it

, removing any one part will cause the whole thing to come toppling down.

>got ahead of myself
>sorry
>>
>>122152581
Jesus christ it abolished because the market enabled prosperity without it. Without the market slavery would still be here and you'd be toiling away for scraps for massa. And you still didn't explain why it would be allowed under ancap.
>>
>>122152391
>theoretical
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/us/01wind.html?_r=2&hp
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303654804576343763766328484

>At some point you just have to accept that some issues are too important to leave to chance.
These issues are best left to the market and not some statist who thinks he knows best.
>>
>>122152581
The government as an entity doesn't have a mind of it's own.

People in the government ended slavery.

People could likewise in an anarcho-capitalist society refuse to trade with people who own slaves or could hlep forcibly liberate the slaves

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW guys I think we should start flagging people like this guy who don't respond to arguments but go on autistic tagents.
>>
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r8 me libertarian general
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>>122147926
So would you recede to a trade and barter system or gold based currency?
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>>122153040
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>>122152864
>Jesus christ it abolished because the market enabled prosperity without it
And that's why Haïti is an economic shithole because they abolished slavery too soon (Also niggers)
Also I'm back
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I'm still a principled libertarian I just happen to believe strongly in physical separation.
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>>122153249
>Haïti is an economic shithole because
they destroyed their land base the same way it probably would have been destroyed were the French to have maintained control and continued to farm sugarcane the same way they had been.
>>
>>122152581
>The government abolished slavery.
read the amendment. no they fucking didnt
>>
>>122153102
one that has byzantine fault ttolerance, something states have never solved
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>>122153621
>developping an economically favorable agriculture
>bad
If they stated with us thirty more years their situation would be more stable than now you cosmopolite
>>
>>122153833

Are you saying that people would have just stopped? I mean, there are still slave markets in other parts of the world right now. They would dissolve?

So confuse right now.
>>
>>122152899

>People in the government ended slavery

Very true, and very obvious.

>>122152864

>And you still didn't explain why it would be allowed under ancap.

Slavery in the US existed up until the exact point that laws were passed against it. So if those laws were removed, it makes sense that slavery would return in some way. Probably not of the cotton-picking variety, but other types of slavery, certainly. Especially sexual slavery, or slavery for the purpose of "growing" and harvesting human organs.

>>122152870

Having a company pay nearby land-owners as compensation for an egregious negative externality is a good idea, but the problem of noise pollution is relatively simple compared to many other long-term environmental hazards.
>>
>>122154065

You all couldn't even stay with your own selves over those thirty years. How could you possibly expect San-Domingue to keep up? The French revolution is the whole reason the Haitian Revolution happened. Well, that and yellow fever.
>>
>>122154143
>Having a company pay nearby land-owners as compensation for an egregious negative externality is a good idea, but the problem of noise pollution is relatively simple compared to many other long-term environmental hazards.
Maybe you are right, but these so called long-term hazards are so wishy-washy. The chances we all get wiped out by an asteroid eclipse a world in which 'long-term environmental hazard' brought around by some selfish firm kills us all. I just don't think it is a reality.
>>
>>122153970
Can you explain byzantine fault tolerance to me? I looked it up and am too retarted to understand it.
>>
>>122154535
So much so, that the free market is already providing solutions to many of these hazards which were perpetuated by governments of recent past
https://twitter.com/Grid_Media/status/855324680076484608
>we renewable energy nao
>>
>>122153833

>read the amendment. no they fucking didnt

They literally fucking did. The government passed a law (actually a constitutional amendment, the highest form of law in the USA) that outlawed slavery.

>>122154535

>but these so called long-term hazards are so wishy-washy

No, they fucking aren't. That's basically just an excuse to say "I don't understand the science so let's do whatever is profitable in the short-term even if it has disastrous long-term consequences."
>>
>>122154382
>The French revolution is the whole reason the Haitian Revolution happened
I know that,that's why the french revolution is at 90% a mistake,I was talking in an uchronic way
>>
>>122154935
Instead you advocate for "I don't understand the science so let's do absolutely nothing until we do"?
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>>122154935
In India and China no such 'green laws' that we have in the West are enacted and we're all still alive.

>muh long-term consensus
More wishy-washy crap. Scientists don't have a clue, we can't predict the weather accurately for the next week, how are we going to predict long-term hazards, brought about by corporations of the future in 100 years time, and therefore pass legislation now to prevent it? Total fairyland bollocks and you know it.
>>
>>122155399

>In India and China no such 'green laws'

Yeah. Exactly. Let's look at the results of that for a moment. Seeing this shit makes me REALLY appreciate the comparatively strong environmental protection laws that we have in the US. I still believe that the laws must be strengthen further, but I'm not envious of China or India.
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>>122154143
>sexual slavery
Do you have the memory of a gold fish? I already told you that sort of slavery is encouraged by the prohibition of prostitution. Or do you think the government has a magic wand to eliminate all ills of society? In some cases it even helps the perpetrator due to political motivations and connections.
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>>122155739
son you have a lot to learn about white people
its not explicit regulation that makes them great
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>>122155739
>>
>>122155739
Whats wrong with Algae and sediment in rivers?
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>>122155739

All I can say is thank god for environmental protection laws.

>>122155784

I'm in favor of legalized prostitution so long as it is done in a properly regulated manner. Any prostitution involving children or human trafficking should be 100% illegal.
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>>122155739
Coase Theorum solves for this which was the original point which you agreed to so I don't know why you are starting this argument again.

The problem you are looking at is because the water IS NOT PRIVATISED. The state HAS FAILED TO REGULATE IT CORRECTLY, and your argument is that this is somehow the fault of Libertarian philosophy? The problem here IS THE STATE.

Moreover, if you think Government failure doesn't exist then I have news for you.
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>>122156034
>>122155963

>tfw fishing in ancap paradise
>>
>>122156095
If those laws work why don't niggers stop littering ? My local parks are carry in carry out and black families get pissed when there is no trash can and just throw their garbage on the ground. Puerto rican people come to crab and fish and give 0 fucks about limits or minimum sizes and will keep anything they catch.

I do cleanups of my local beaches, rivers, lakes, etc. and 99% of the harmful trash is all consumer shit.
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>>122156292
>ancap paradise
>posts government managed river
Every fucking time.
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>>122156457
>>
>>122156218

>if you think Government failure doesn't exist

I never said this. No reasonable person would ever suggest such a thing. However, at the same time, no reasonable person would suggest that all those problems would just go away if the government magical disappeared. There would be a power vacuum, some fighting, and then a new government would form. Maybe a better government, maybe a worse government. You never really know how it will turn out, which is why overthrowing the government should always be a last resort. In 1917, the Russians overthrew their Tsar and ended up with somebody far worse as a replacement.
>>
>>122156848
Who said anything about overthrowing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ybi1MeC3c
>>
>>
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>>122156457

Okay, I'll give you this: if some super-billionaire with a boner for environmental protection purchased the entire Ganges river and then ruthlessly sued everybody who even thought about polluting it, then that would probably be the "best" solution in terms of guaranteeing the pollution stops. BUT.....that basically never happens. More likely it would be purchased by the same companies that currently pollute the river and they would continue polluting it just like they already do. So sure, privatize the river, but it won't accomplish much unless water protection laws are strengthened at the same time.
>>
>>122145495
from left to right:
Rothbard
Ron Paul?
Rand
Hoppe
Friedman
Bastiat?
Mises
Hayek?

Is this right?
>>
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>>122157605
Yep
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>>122157441
Literally thousands of more economically viable ways to use that river than polluting it until depletion.
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>>122155399

>we can't predict the weather accurately for the next week, how are we going to predict long-term hazards

This retarded metaphor might have held some water in the past, but nowadays weather forecasts tend to be pretty damn accurate.
>>
>>122157441
Someone downstream or on the surrounding area would sue them for the damage. You could also gather everyone affected and trigger a class action lawsuit. Why would companies spend billions just to dump shit into it and then potentially get fined a shit ton? They can pollute so much when they can get away with it for free.
>>
>>122158205
>tend
>pretty
How accurately do you think we can forecast weather then?
Next week? Yeah maybe, 90%
Next month? Well, we'll have an idea
Next year? Yeah no fuck off.
>>
>>122158017

BTW, the rivers are just the tip of the ice-berg. There is a lot of other shit going on in addition to that. Nope, I'm still not envious of China or India and their conspicuous lack of environmental protection laws. That's not to suggest that there aren't serious environmental problems in the US, as well, but at least we've got some semblance of control.
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>>122158769

>You can't precisely determine the weather on a specific date in the far future so you can't make any predictions about long-term trends
>>
>>122145495
>Lolbertarian society
>Abolishes armies and police
>gets inveded by another country
>Runs out of money to pay the mercenaries
>Mercenaries also rape and loot your society

This would never ever happen in a Statist society
>>
>>122159538
>>
>>122150423

Where is this chart from? I want to take it. I'll post my results.
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>>122159538
>This would never ever happen in a Statist society
>he said moments before getting invaded by America
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>>122156447
Because niggers have no respect for the law. I mean that's also why they commit crime. Also why a libertarian state won't work unless there is no niggers because they will constantly vote to steal everyone else's wealth. This is not a super difficult concept.
>>
>>122160133

Costa Rica voluntarily disbanded their armies years ago in exchange for guaranteed US protection. Statists win again.
>>
>>122158967
I agree, purchasing all the land that could generate negative externalities from a river would be absurd use of resources, but there are other externalities that are more feasible, car pollution for example. That's why I believe covenants should tax car usage within them and road tolls should come to agreements with nearby covenants to cover the expenses of said externalities too.
>>
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>>122159982

I have no idea why you'd use this person as an example of ancap. He appears to have been a social democrat.
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>>122161041
It was a reference to the civil war which killed thousands.
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>>122160735
>statist territory gets disarmed and turned into a vassal state without even firing a shot
>statists win
Also I was referring more to the middle east not Costa Rica specifically.
>Sadam gets put in charge by the US
>he's useful until he's not
>his soldiers hardly put up a fight
>gets btfo
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>>122161912
>government:taxe more and of he resists you can jail him
>company:you must satisfy his demand or he won't buy your shit
I wonder why we prefer the latter
>>
>>122159982
>Pepe
I have mixed feelings about him
>>122161041
He was
>>122161348
>thousands
Kek, my sides = gone
>>122160735
Thank you greatest ally
>>
>>
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>>122161912
>What? A class of working slaves with no chance for escape nor their children having a escape as they simply don't make enough cash and have to buy food from the company who pays them and rents them out. Just like in current industrialized sweat shops.

>Of course I wouldn't be one of them I would be the owner of several chains of businesses, because mine could compete against burger king and the banks, because people never buy the cheaper easier product
>>
>>122163080
>Multicuralism
>Homosexuality
>Communist
Nice may may
It was literally illegal to be gay in the SU
>>
>>122163134

>If you don't support my retarded ancap ideas then you're a communist

THERE IT IS
>>
>>122163698
>Reading comprehension and relation to image.

I'm gonna give you a 1/10 for understanding that. you knew what some of the words were atleast
>>
>>122162703

The voluntary aspects of corporations that you enjoy so much are the very reason why they can't adequately replace all government functions. Some aspects of society are involuntary by necessity, and the government is needed to enforce such things. For example, a corporation cannot try somebody for murder because an accused murderer would simply refuse to take part in the trial unless he is forced to, whereas the government can simply force somebody to stand trial if there is enough evidence to justify it.
>>
>>122164060

I was more replying to the image you posted rather than the text that you wrote.
>>
>>122164219
No my post was in relation to how the dumb commies think they won't be slave labor and they'll be party members. Just like the few muh taxes here think they'll all own a nice little business or farm and live in a nice little community and won't be economic slave labor or simply exploited by someone bigger and tougher.
>>
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>>122145495

> somebody took the time to draw that

That ain't regular autism. That's some next level, weapons' grade autism right there.
>>
>>122164060

Oh wait, I get it now, you win this round.
>>
>>122164788

You win. I concede.
>>
>>122145914
>>122149041

Are you literally retarded?
>>
>>122164102
>t.didn't rode the machinery of freedom
Private courts CAN work pleb
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>>122145495
>enjoy economics enough to take it as my bachelors
>literally just 3 years of meme math shit and keynesian state worship and zero mention of any other school of thought, let alone austrian

actually, there was one mention of austrian economics. they turned mises' works into graphs and algebra
don't take economics at university. just read in your own time.
>>
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>>122152471

agreed
>>
>>122163290
>Leftist subversion and communism
>Leftist subversion
>>
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Reading this thread only ads more proof to the idea that capitalism is the newest "great religion".

It has its high priests (bankers, brokers, CEO's) its saints (Smith, Rand, Keynes, Bernays, etc.), its omnipotent, omnipresent, "undisprovable" deity (The Invisible Hand), its path to salvation (consumerism, climbing the corporate ladder, chasing the almighty dollar) and so on and so forth.

So, capitalists. what sets you apart from other fanatic zealots?
>>
>>122161912
there is no contradiction in this image, unless you believe that it's a contradiction that capitalists believe that capitalism is superior to corporatism but corporatism is superior to communism

corporatism is a mutation of capitalism in which the state favours certain sectors and certain businesses within or without those sectors. the forces that generate the prosperity and allocate the resources are still fundamentally market forces, given the inefficient constraints implemented by the state
>>
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>>122165851
banks are not capitalists

these institutions are the consequence of the politization of:
>currency
>finances
>monetary system
>cash coeficient on deposits
>central banking

well, you can still call it capitalist
>then I'll call you genius
>>
>>122165279

>Private courts CAN work

Most people avoid courts entirely unless they are explicitly forced to attend. Why would I attend any trial that might not have a positive outcome for me UNLESS somebody forces me to go?
>>
>>122165283
>see pic related
The fuck is this heresy
>>
>>122165851
Reading this thread only ads more proof to the idea that communism is the newest "great religion".

It has its high priests (dictator of the proletariat, party members, people who are as good as CEOs but aren't employed for the same purpose at lower costs because corporations are too greedy to cut costs and make more profits) its saints (Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, etc.), its omnipotent, omnipresent, "undisprovable" deity (Hegelian Dialectic), its path to salvation (rejecting property, reporting anti-revolutionaries to the prosecution department, waiting in bread lines) and so on and so to speak.

So, communists. what sets you apart from other fanatic zealots?
>>
>>122166571
we are learning about the good consequences of monetary expansion on international markets, anon
:^)
>>
>>122164931
>gypsie's man hes not allowed on my property

cry more
>>
>>122166459
the entreprise on which you work can fire you because you make a bad reputation for them for not joining The court,and like banks when they report a bad credit they would share infos to other entreprise about you so they wouldn't recruit you
>>
>>122165851
>Reading this thread
>Posts baby's first anti-capitalist mantras

Nigger you didn't even read the thread, you are spouting prejudices. There's absolutely no reference to "invisible hand" in this thread, all is explained with rooting on human interaction, incentives and business making.

This thread has some of the greatest debaters in this board and you come here to post the nonsense that we're zealots.
>>
>>122167204

Okay, so what if I'm self-employed or I own the business? Business owners get sued pretty frequently IRL which is why corporations exist in the first place, to protect against individual liability. So if a business owner is sued, why would he attend court? Who forces him to go? The answer is nobody. He just ignores the whole thing and keeps doing like it never happened.
>>
>>122166636
Reading this thread only ads more proof to the idea that fascism is the newest "great religion".

It has its high priests (Fuhrer, "Society", The people who set prices and production quantities and qualities regarding people's totally Private PropertyTM) its saints (Hitler, Mussolini, Mosley, Tojo, etc.), its omnipotent, omnipresent, "undisprovable" deity ("Blood"), its path to salvation (Creating an ever shrinking group of individuals capable of being included in the "chosen race" , giving ultimate power to a single individual that you approve of because you're too stupid to approve of the right things, being starved if you're not part of the chosen in-group) and so on and so to speak.

So, fascists. what sets you apart from other fanatic zealots?
>>
>>122167534
He can be tried in absence.
>>
>>122167534
So are you suggesting that becoming an outlaw is a good idea?
>>
>>122165283
Anon, enlighten me. I really need your input.
I've read a moderate amount of material on Austrian school, but I never went into the math of mainstream Economics.

I have a simple question. What do you do with all those thousands of pages of equations they show you in university courses on Economics? I know the field must go beyond "free market beats all, communists abstain, that's all I need to know", but... I just can't imagine what use those equations could have. Are they useful for anything at all? Or are they perhaps just bullshit memes, like everything ever written about marxist "economics"? Something in between perhaps?
>>
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>>122165851

Banks (and bankers) are the epitome capitalism. They own, through debt or direct ownership, most of the capital in the world, by modern economic rules. Are you trolling or just plain retarded?

>>122166636
> NO U
nice try, tho. a solid 4/10.
What in the fuck made you think I was a commie?
>>
>>122167979
This is what happens when Universities become "free" and everyone attends, and when professors are cultivated in a "publish or perish" environment. You just get loads of contradictory empiricist shit. The costs for the individual are extremely low, the costs for society are high and the benefit for the professors is high. It's in their interests to just pump out low-effort shit for years on end that is just good enough to be consumed for "free", that is, fucking garbage. Mises' Human Action and Sowell's Basic Economics combined give you a better understanding of Economics than you'd get out of an Economics degree, in this country at least.

It's just meme work for liberal economics professors who can't actually come up with any interesting theories so just look at some graph and repackage chosen variables with cool Greek letters and then run OLS through it to come up with "proof" of their work and then spew it into the minds of students in a watering down of what is otherwise just Keynesian print shit please theory.
>>
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>>122167929

Okay, sure. And then he just ignores it. Your "court" has no legal authority so why should he even care what you do? As long as his business remains profitable, he can completely ignore you.
>>
>>122167427

Well the zealot part was my "incentive" to this discussion.

> some of the greatest debaters
All I see are same ol' jay-pegs memery and larping I see in all right-libertarian threads. If this is your best, I feel sorry for your worst. Hell, even for your run-of-the-mill regular guys...

Also, riddle me this: How does one extract infinite growth from a closed system with finite resources?
>>
>>122168026
The banking sector only has as much influence as it has as it is coupled with the state and is used as a means of currency expansion and stealth taxation. They have neither of these functions in a stateless society or in a society in which the state does not interfere with banking.

Capitalism personified is probably a venture capitalist, not a banker, as the venture capitalist is the embodiment of the personal ownership and allocation of capital.
>>
>>122168968
You take his property as prescribed by the court and enforced by your security agency.
>>
>>122169056
Riddle me this: Which libertarian has advocated for infinite growth?
>>
>>122169243

And he continues ignoring every part of that because you can't do anything to him without violating NAP. What you going to do? BTW because he owns his own very successful business his security agency is a lot bigger than yours because he can afford it. If you try to mess with his shit, you're gonna regret it, partner.
>>
>>122169056
>How does one extract infinite growth

No libertarian advocates for infinite growth, this is a strawman from plinkos and socialists in general which means you didn't need to read this thread to make up your prejudices like you seemed to have pointed out in your post, you already had them before you arrived here.

Anyway, tell me, what is more valuable, using silicate to create a pretty paperweight or using 1/65th of that stone for a micro-processor?

The amount of resources is inferior, yet the value is much higher. That's what economic growth is, the process where the usage of the same amount of resources yields higher productivity.
>>
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>>122169140

The banking sector always has tremendous influence in currency based trade society, be it proto-, classic or current capitalist. See the Medici bankers and countless others of their ilk. May I also remind you that most central banks are private corporations owned by "venture capitalists" and with very little transparency and state control?
>>
>>122169723
>without violating NAP

Come on man, you've been in this thread all day, you can't seriously tell me that by now you have not understood that NAP is not reciprocated to those who don't accept being subjected to it.

This is what justifies defense towards aggression like in the case you described.
>>
>>122169723
You're typing as if you're larping.
Why are you assuming that my security agency is smaller than mine? Security agencies are likely huge, they aren't going to do battle over a single court case, the losses of capital and reputation would be fucking ridiculous. The one protecting the man who did not go to court would waver its protection, as is likely to be stipulated in the contract for any security agency.
Regardless of if this is a violation of the NAP (which it is likely not, since he broke a contract in order to get rightfully sued), the NAP doesn't affect physical capability.
>>
>>122145894
>He doesn't want a society where based white and black people kick out the niggers and rednecks.

Anyone have thoughts on Tucker Carlson being moved to 8? Maybe more centralist would be more willing to adopt Libertarian beliefs of the noncuck variety.
>>
>>122170025
Do you really think that the state has little influence on an entity which can only exist when the state has granted it monopoly power?
The banking sector would still have strong influence in a stateless society, yes, but people would be free to change currency at will if one currency provider started to work in a shady fashion.
I cannot really recall any civilisation that had free banking, only freer banking. The influence of banks definitely increases with their ties to the state apparatus.
>>
>>122168787
I find that hard to swallow, honestly. Maybe I don't want to believe it.

I've seen books on Economics that are literally more than a thousand pages of greek letters with some English interspersed. Those huge books must have some kind of real life application or consequence. As somebody who has gone through those things, would you really say that from an Austrian perspective those hundreds of thousands of equations are absolutely meaningless?

I don't want to sound like a smartass by saying "I don't need to know math to know Economics", but if that's actually the case it'd be nice to know.
>>
>>122170079
>my security agency is smaller than mine

I do hope you forgive this. My argument is null if you point out this typo.
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>>122170079

>Why are you assuming that my security agency is smaller than mine?

Because usually when an individual is suing a business, particularly a large successful business, of course the business will have more resources to devote to protection.

>>122170073

So basically, everything is vigilantism then. No legal system to maintain order. Whoever has the most money to hire the most security guys wins every time there is a dispute.
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>>122170462
That's basically the problem with economists, they aproach the matter without being completely technical, or completely sociological.

Therefore the economical theories turn out to be completely irrelevant once the markets change.
>>
>>122170462
They generally do have an application, yes, and can be helpful when creating a better or a worse state than would exist without research into economics. They almost all presuppose an omnipotent government which acts for moral purposes as dictated by economics, and the same for the central bank (which they assume must exist, too). I don't know of any macroeconomic work which does not rely on the assumption of a controllable central bank, and as such the field is beyond my interest. It's simply the folly of a few smart men trying to eclipse the combined mundane knowledge of all of the other members of society by deciding monetary policy for them.
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>>122170838

>Math is hard therefore it has no value
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>>122169857

You forget about the technology, extraction costs, manufacture, transport, assembly, trade and sale commissions just to name a few of the extra vvalue-adding, resource consuming cost factors on your little CPU.

also, SILICA IS A MINERAL NOT A STONE (it's also a chemical compound)

> no libertarian advocates for infinite growth
Maybe no regular libertarian, but right-libertarians are pretty tied up in the basic concepts of capitalism, one of which is perpetual growth, to provide ever-increasing profits, to fuel more growth, to... well, you get the point.
>>
>>122170869

This idea of a central bank seems to be particularly triggering for some reason. What's wrong with having a central bank?
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>>122170834
More resources to devote to protection, sure, but so what? Rich people spend more money at Tesco than me, doesn't mean that my supermarket is poorer than theirs. You didn't actually refute my other points, by the way. A giant security corporation cannot afford to go to war against another large security corporation because one of its members violated one of their own contracts. To do so would be insane.
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>>122171152
Inefficient allocation of resources and destruction of the ability of the individual to hold his wealth in a form of his choice, that is, a form that cannot be taxed through forcible inflation.

>>122171052
>the basic concepts of capitalism, one of which is perpetual growth, to provide ever-increasing profits, to fuel more growth, to... well, you get the point.
What? The point is voluntary interaction between individuals.
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>>122170396

The monopoly power was there before the state granted it. Bankers made or broke kings a long time before states were a thing.

It's kind of hard to switch currencies when the banker's more or less private army is threatening you. And if that doesen't work, hey, there's still the threat of engineered economic collapse...
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>>122171323

They don't need to go to "war" they just have to stop you from doing anything that would interfere with the business.
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>>122171581
>The monopoly power was there before the state granted it.
Saying something doesn't make that true. Central banks didn't exist in every nation worldwide in 1500 and there's a reason why currency was backed by metals and depreciation was very little from 1200-1850. There was never a system of free banking.
The idea that a corporation will just get too much money and then kill everyone is silly too. The same can be "argued" against any form of social system. There will always be an entity with the most power. What if they just... kill everyone? And then destroy everything?
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>>122170869
Okay, thanks for your input.
The hardest thing to understand for me right now is how could that knowledge be useful if it all deals with monetary policy. Once you get rid of the central banks you can shove those equations up your ass for all they're worth.
I guess I'll have to at least read an introduction to the field to really know what it's all about.
>>
>>122171514

>The point is voluntary interaction between individuals.

But some interactions will inevitably be involuntary. Nobody voluntarily goes to trial unless they are forced to. Any functional society needs a functional legal system, and you simply cannot have that unless you have a way to actually force people to show up and stand trial.
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>>122171638
Which would be extremely costly for my security agency or the courts (whichever works to secure my payment after winning the case). Eventually it would escalate to a massive conflict if the security agency of the sued business decided to ignore its contract with the selected court and instead protect a single one of its customers, wavering its ability to ever act as a security agency in the future as no court will entertain it as an entity and as such it will immediately lose its capital value and all of its stocks will be dumped and investment in the company will become impossible.
This is fucking stupid.
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>>122172058
That wasn't a response to you. Regardless, obviously not all actions in a stateless society would be voluntary. Inflicting coercion upon another person by breaking contract or otherwise results in you wavering your preference for just coercion to be inflicted upon you. The NAP doesn't forbid retaliation.

Economic incentive forces people to show up for trial. Just like it forces people to make regular shaped loaves of bread instead of loaves of bread which spell out "i fucking hate niggers"
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>>122171514

When one man controls the resources, access to basic necessities and, pardon the expression, the means of production, the interaction between him and the local workforce is anything but voluntary.
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>>122172647
It is though? If you're unhappy with this man and the way he runs his property; you are free to vote with your wallet and/or feet against him
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>>122171955

I'm not even going to start on the rest of your thread, because you've obviously no idea what you're saying, but

> depreciation was very little from 1200-1850

What is the fucking Price Revolution?

You.

Fucking.

Mong.
>>
>>122172058
>Nobody voluntarily goes to trial unless they are forced to.
You can't withdraw consent. If you consent to subjecting yourself to a court in a certain matter, you can't later say that their sentence goes against your will.
If I promise to pay you $100 next month under penalty of getting beat up by men in suits, I can't just not pay and say you have no right to send the men in suits to collect your money.

>>122172647
False. Look up what "voluntary" means. If I really need to do something to keep living that doesn't mean it's not voluntary.
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>>122172647
We're working under different definitions of voluntary. Mine regards coercion and violation of contract or application of non-consensual "contract".

Does yours measure necessity to achieve a certain thing, which is "to live" when not stated otherwise?

As in, if the worker wants to live, it is necessary that he work, and as such it is not voluntary.
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>>122145879
Value economical and ethical is not as different as you may think.
Reputation means a lot in Ancapistan.
>>122145495
Reporting in for CHECK OUT THIS DANK ROMAN IN A SUIT
FUCKING BASED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy2O7CPNmqI
He's starting a "based" legal fund for right-wing fighters along with Kyle Chapman, is redpilled on the JQ, has a better haircut than Spencer and is probably the most /ourguy/ active politician in the U.S. Comes off as more minarchist than ancap, but is militant enough to be liked around here. Yay or nay?
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>>122173090

How can you vote with your wallet if it's spent on buying food and shelter from your boss? Read up on the coal mines in early XXth century US. That was free market capitalism in action.
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>>122145790
>without war
Why? War is a good thing when used for a right cause.
It breeds strong men, which is essential if AnCap is to survive. It expands your influence and wealth, and since states inherently violate the NAP, it's justified on moral grounds as well.
The tyrants shall bathe in their own blood.
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>>122173096
>This level of inflation amounts to 1–1.5% per year, a relatively low inflation rate for the 20th century standards, but rather high given the monetary policy in place in the 16th century.[1]

I'm adjusted to sustained hyperinflation, sorry.
Regardless, this was due to an influx of whatever resource the currency was backed by, not an expansion of fiat or banknote. Wouldn't happen under BTC, for example, and even less likely to happen now if the currencies were still metal backed due to us now having commerce and mines situated all over the world, and there's not likely to be a gold rush akin to the finding of a new continent from which we can harvest gold.
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>>122172238

You're right, it is fucking stupid. The current system where we have actual laws and government is much better.

>>122172466

>The NAP doesn't forbid retaliation.

Okay, sure. If somebody stabs you, stab them back. But what about situations which are more complicated than that? In real-life, it is possible for an individual person to sue a massive corporation like Wal-Mart and WIN if they have a legitimate grievance. It's rare, and it's hella difficult, but it's at least possible. In your theoretical ancap society, that would be completely impossible because Wal-Mart is always going to win because they're security company is going to completely dwarf that of an individual person.

>Economic incentive forces people to show up for trial.

Nobody who is accused of a crime ever shows up in court because of an "economic incentive." They show up because the government tells them, "show up on this date or else we're sending the police to arrest you and drag you to court."
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>>122173476
Go find another boss or company to work at. One should exist with suitable conditions simply because if it offered such it would be so much easier for it to get workers, and ones that mistreated workers wouldn't be able to compete since anyone with half a brain would move to ones that didn't.
>>
>>122150362
Holy shit you destroyed this commie

Commendable
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>>122145894
>people who like to be ruled by an authority outside of its property
>not cucks
Pick one. If your weakness is the main reason you oppose AnCap, I suggest reading a few books, maybe lifting a bit, who knows.
Hey - Belgium is a prime contender for AnCapistan, since it's a non-country.
But I'll give you this - liberty is indeed a very white matter, and this shouldn't excuse NatSoc - it should rather be embraced by the alt-right movement so that it can finally evolve beyond edgy shitposting into a new, more coherent ideology centered around the white race and what it stands for.
>>
>>122173476
I can't find anything on that. Can I have a good article?
You can vote with your wallet by searching for an alternate job while you work, by the way.
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>>122173854
But anon, you can't have nationalism without socialism! It's in the name even!
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>>122173367

>Value economical and ethical is not as different as you may think.

Chattel slavery was perfectly legal until the government passed a law that said "no more slavery." Up until that point, slavery was quite profitable. Slave-owners had no economic incentive to free their slaves. Sure many people were against slavery for ethical reasons, but they had very little power to actually do anything about it until the government passed a law that abolished slavery. BTW, if you defend chattel slavery then you automatically lose your right to invoke individual rights.
>>
>>122146355
>as conflict evolves, weapons are used
>armor is developed as a counter
>throughout history, both evolve further and further
>the original AnCapistan - Switzerland develops the thing that kills the knight LARPer
like pottery
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>>122146459
It is.
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>>122173685
>But what about situations which are more complicated than that?
Like the one I explained to you and then you ignored?

>Wal-Mart is always going to win because they're security company is going to completely dwarf that of an individual person.
Why? You still haven't explained why Wal-Mart would have a bigger security company. They'd purchase more from a given company, of course, but there's no reason why Wal-Mart's security company would be bigger in total than mine.
For example, individuals are pretty tiny, but often buy life insurance. This doesn't mean that life insurance companies are going to be smaller than those bought by people with higher wages, only that the investment and payments into those companies will be larger. Aviva operates in the U.K. with a revenue of about £56 billion, and this revenue is overwhelmingly from individuals who aren't super rich.

In a security insurance market, there is no reason to believe that it'd be different. In fact, the same security company could be covering both you and Wal-Mart. The amount that Wal-Mart pays for security would be dwarfed by the total amount paid by consumers.
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>>122147305
Secession is essential to liberty. Different people who cannot coexist should not be forced to try to coexist, but should separate and trade from a distance (or not trade, whatever).
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>>122174898

>You still haven't explained why Wal-Mart would have a bigger security company

Because Wal-Mart is a $230 billion corporation dumbass. Their security team would dwarf almost everybody else's.
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>>122147722
No.
You don't get a right to a share of my property. Go get your own.
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>>122170834
>So basically, everything is vigilantism then. No legal system to maintain order. Whoever has the most money to hire the most security guys wins every time there is a dispute.

Let's sum up the conditions required for this hypothesis.

a) A company has their own security firm which doesn't agree or fulfills with the responsibility to settle conflicts in a peaceful manner through third party arbitration.

b) This company is able to out-spend and out-maneuver the rest of security/law firms, being able to withstand war ad infinitum.

c) Somehow all the resources wasted in security from this company doesn't affect their sales and ability to control the market, profits keep coming in at a regular rate.

d) Somehow the rest of the population is not able to gather enough strength to defeat this company even through militia action.

e) Somehow no businessman can see this massive waste of resources from this company and decide to enter the same market while spending 1/100th in security compared to the company of the hypothesis.

I would call that quite a stretch. But even if all that was possible, then no state in the world would be able to defeat said company. Congratulations, world fucking domination, but the problem you stated would never be exclusive to anarcho-capitalism.
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>>122147873
There was another one with like 2K each and it was exactly half NatSoc, half libertarian.
Try again, cuckoo. Just because Mussolini fucked your grandma doesn't mean you have to follow him to his grave, or rather gas pump station.
>>
>>122174627
That's just straight up wrong, though. Institutions were in place by which taxpayer money was used to recover runaway slaves and pay peasants to recapture those slaves at cost to society. There was legal code against the freeing of slaves. It was entirely state enforced.
>>
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Anarchism as a political movement has always been about abolishing coercive hierarchy whether it be social, political or economical. The state and capitalism are the two systems that cause the most harm in our present society.

'Anarcho'-capitalism is not anarchism. It's a regurgitation of feudalism for the modern age.

Below in some reccomended reading to introduce to anarchism.

>Introduction to Anarchism
https://libcom.org/files/intro%20pamphlet%20reading.pdf

>The Anarchist FAQ
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionA

>Is 'Anarcho'-Capitalism a form of Anarchism?
http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQSectionF

>Anarcho-'Capitalism' is impossible.
https://c4ss.org/content/4043

>What is Property, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen

>The Conquest of Bread, Peter Kropotkin
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread

>Markets not capitalism
http://radgeek.com/gt/2011/10/Markets-Not-Capitalism-2011-Chartier-and-Johnson.pdf
>>
>>122175325
Do you have ADHD? Why do you just read a single line and then respond as if you've offered a retort to everything that has been said?
Economies of scale would make it vastly more profitable for Wal-Mart to outsource their security than to have Wal-Mart brand security that only they use, by the way. Specialisation is a thing.
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>>122148269
>eugenics
Encouraged by the entire system of AnCapistan, just not under the state's jurisdiction (fucking duh).
Really, have you ever read any of these threads?
We support banning niggers from your stores if that's what you feel like doing.
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>>122175547
Picking apart word etymology is not an argument. It is more like a mental exercise for children.
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>>122175881
Anarchism has been anti-capitalist since its inception. It was 'an'caps who where messing around with definitions.
>>
>>122175547
Also, please refrain from ever again posting a "one company will become so big that he'll just enslave the entire world!" meme image "argument". Nobody cares.
>>
>>122175547
instead of gish-galloping with a dozen of articles that confirm your bias, why don't you expose them to debate, one by one, see if they are as solid as you think they are?
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>>122174098
wtf i love having half my shit taken away now
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>>122175544

If your dog runs away, the police will send your dog back to you if they find it. Same concept. It was perfectly legal up until the point where the government said that it wasn't.
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>>122173563

> comparing inflation to today's standards

OK. Whatever you say, Hoss.

> not likely to be a gold rush akin to the finding of a new continent from which we can harvest gold

Well, people have been eyeing a certain asteroid belt (radiation notwithstanding) laden with rare metals. It's only a matter of time before someone gets to it.

Currency is shit. Value should be measured in an index combining labour and supply/demand, But that would need really powerful computing machinery... Wait, we have those! Computers, I think they call'em. Now if only those computers were tied together in some sort of global international network... Hmmm...
>>
>>122176060
So? You're still not heeding my advice. Anarcho-capitalism is a word that stuck, and is what the ideology currently known as [banned by commie pinko] currently goes by in common tongue. I'm open to other names. We can call it contractualism or volutaryism if you so desire.
>>
>>122174627
>slavery
Literally a violation of the NAP.
Ownership of another person is not a natural right, which is why it's frowned upon. Keep in mind that this is even worse than using POWs, because their kids are enslaved as well.
>>
>>122176224
>asteroid belt (radiation notwithstanding) laden with rare metals
B-but anon, didn't you say resources were finite just a few posts ago? :^)
>>
>>122176224
If the currency created by those computers is better than it'd be viable in a market. Sell the idea if libertarianism ever comes around.
Currency is a very important aspect of society. I wouldn't expect a pinko to understand that people value things for a reason.
>>
>>122146092
my fucking sides
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>>122173740

What if that boss has a bunch of good'ol boys with shotguns patrolling the premises, making sure that no bad people get into his mining town *wink wink*

It's not like there would be any state to stop him...
>>
>>122176520
then*. I'm not retarded, trust me.
>>
>>122176088
Property owners would have more power in society than the people who work for them. They control the workplace standards and overall standard of living of the people who work for them, just like feudalism.

Private property (absentee ownership) also fulfils the Rothbardian criteria for a state.
>>
>>122174627
Slavery is literally the quintessential violation of the non-agression axiom, retard.

As in, the basic foundation of all libertarian thought.
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>>122175711

Because if you cannot recognize the massive disparity between a 230 billion dollar company and an average individual, then frankly you have no right to speak about economics in any regard. Wal-Mart's private security will completely dwarf yours by several magnitudes.

>>122176332

>Literally a violation of the NAP

True, but ancaps usually try to say that violating the NAP is always unprofitable. Well, slavery was profitable, so that kills that theory. Slave-owners were able to violate the NAP and they profited from doing it. The free market was unable to solve this problem. The government had to step in.

>>122176732

>Slavery is literally the quintessential violation of the non-agression axiom

So why didn't libertarians abolish slavery then? Why did they sit around and wait for the government to do it? If the theory of anarcho-capitalism holds true, then slavery should have disappeared on its own without any government interference.
>>
I'm a market anarchist.
>>
>>122147483
I saw a poll recently that showed that /pol/ is slightly more libertarian than national socialist
>>
>>122177148
Look into mutalism or left-wing market anarchism. Read 'Markets not Capitalism'.

Capitalism is antithetical to free markets.
>>
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>>122147483
>>122177157
>>
>>122146459

You Pinochet worshipers are statist. Liberty isn't just the absence of interference, it's also the absence of DEPENDENCE. Is a slave free if his master does not interfere with him? Obviously not, if you talk of free slaves you've dropped the ball. A slave is a slave because he lives at the mercy of the arbitrary will of his master. Arbitrary power is the most dangerous kind of power. It does not even have to be used for it to oppress you. The mere knowledge that you live only at the discretion of someone else is enough to cause you to self-censor. Democratic power is flawed, but it is not arbitrary. You can go and protest Trump outside the white house, would you feel comfortable protesting someone like Pinochet?
>>
>>122177335
Pretty much a tie
>>
slaughter of all democrats is the price we pay for civilization
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>>122177310
Yeah that book kinda swung me the other way.

I just don't like to stick to either side. I hate both state secured privilege and welfare queens
>>
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>It seems that we have statists to be removed
>>
>>122177079
>Well, slavery was profitable

You cannot draw that conclusion without comparison against a non slavery system, in which case you'd realize that slavery wasn't profitable.

The government stepped in before society did, but it did so when they felt that they had enough society support. There's absolutely no reason to believe that different forms of leadership wouldn't have gathered just as much strength to fight against slavery.
>>
>>122177419
eat a dick
pinochet is one of best ever
>>
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>>
capitalist productive north ate low output slavery boring south and capitaism ended slavery in usa which was dwarfed by slavery in africa india and english empire etc etc
>>
>>122177554

Fuck off statist
>>
>>122177419
Yeah I agree. I really hate all these libertarians that like Pinochet unironically. If it's justified to kill imprison folks for their beliefs in YOUR ideal world why is it wrong to imprison you in THEIR ideal world?
>>
>>122177664
Pretty much this.

Slavery wasn't profitable enough to be able to maintain NAP violation without violent revolt and repercussions, Capitalism outmaneuvered slavery and it won.
>>
>>122177760
is that what people tell you nonstop?
u commy statist fag
nuke israel!!
>>
>>122177079
>he thinks slavery was about profits

It wasn't. It was also just as state protected as it was abolished, rendering your point moot. The state solving a problem it created its not an argument in favor of the state.
>>
>>122177865
because you are a commy fag
>>
socialism is facism is communism is nazism is democrat

free markets and property are freedom and success

slaughter all democrats
>>
>>122174001

Sorry for the wikipedes, but you'll find your way from there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_deaths_in_United_States_labor_disputes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Creek%E2%80%93Cabin_Creek_strike_of_1912
>>
>>122177865
Well this argument has a flaw, in that you wouldn't need to imprison folks for their beliefs if they didn't want to force them upon others.

I would be okay with other people, with their ideal world, imprisoning me if I wanted to force my ideals upon them.
>>
>>122177865

I find the helicopter memes funny but they've long gone past the point of being tongue in cheek.
>>
>>122177865
>someone wants to dispossess you and your children's children of all property, agency, and humanity
>It's wrong to kill these people

my laff
>>
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>>122145495

This is mine.

>>122178028

>he thinks slavery was about profits

The literal definition of chattel slavery implies profit motive.
>>
>>122178181

You realize this is exactly the same argument communists used to justify imprisoning dissidents?
>>
>>122178302
>The literal definition of chattel slavery implies profit motive.

Slavery in the United States was unprofitable versus non slavery for a long time. It was a cultural fixture of hierarchical dominance, and that's why it stayed.
>>
>>122178229

I don't care what they want, I care what they do. You are literally on the same page as SJWs who think hearing views they disagree with is assault.
>>
>>122178181
Sure, if a bunch of rogue commies started getting organised to come and take away my property then it is okay to protect yourself and your property. But if a bunch of commies wanna have a commune where they share their shit who am I to tell them not to?

>>122178229
I think abortion is morally wrong and I don't want to outlaw it. You can have your own beliefs without forcing them on others.
>>
>>122178314
How so? I literally stated that, unlike communists, I don't want to force my ideals upon anyone.

I wouldn't imprison or throw from a helicopter any communist, just those that wanted to force communism upon those not willing.
>>
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>>122178302
>>
>>122176389

Those resources are finite as well, boyo. Also, plenty of resources left in the continental shelves. But that would FUBAR our ecosystem and decimate us (at the very best).
>>
>>122177079
No, it is absolutely not always unprofitable.
Well, it depends. It can land you a nuke on your yard. That's discouraging enough, eh?
>>
>>122178557
The universe is finite?
>>
>>122178404

The slaves pick cotton, and the cotton was sold for profit.
>>
>>122178528
Great. But as far as I know, Pinochet killed commies for having those beliefs not because they were storming a village of peaceful villagers to forcibly spread their property.
>>
>>122178528

The soviets viewed dissidents as trying to reimpose capitalism and oppress everyone.
>>
>>122178689
are you a literal retard? I said that slavery was not more profitable than other forms of labour and you have shown no proof otherwise.
>>
>>122178741
you know what commies with those beliefs do? they start revolutions and take over entire countries, causing millions of deaths.

Imagine if Castro could have been defenestrated from a helicopter before he could revolt.
>>
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>>122146092
Fucking kek
>>
>>122178741

It was arbitrary. He killed communists, but plenty of people who just got on the wrong side of some government official were murdered aswell. This is the proud libertarian society people here are unironically defending. If you live in such a society, you are not impeded by knowledge of what will happen to you if you break the law, as is the case now, but precisely the fact that you do NOT know. Can people really not see the inherent contradiction with libertarianism here?
>>
>>122179138

A libertarian advocating the concept of thought crime. Wow.
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>>122145495
your idiot philosophy will not work because niggers and kikes exist. NAP can never work with the bulk of both of those groups.

unless you make segregated ethno states

then it is basicaly natsoc anyways.
>>
>>122179138
And when they do you have a the right to protect yourself
>>
>>122179395
>>122179253
Hey Estonia your're cute, nice flat tax rate. ;)
>>
>>122178627

Travel outside our solar system is unlikely. Travel outside our galaxy is impossible.

So yes, OUR universe is finite.
>>
>>122179429

Only proportionally, or else all those ancap ball memes stop being satirical. They kind of already have though, unfortunately.
>>
>>122179404
>it's another mouth-breathing stormretard thinks he's adding to the discussion episode




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