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Anarchism thread.

1. States, even nation-states, properly defined by a realistic study of past and present societies, are a net negative for society and have always have been. This includes Marxist-Leninist states.

2. Society is best organized not by states, but by the free association and mutual aid of every individual through consensus organizations and coordination.

Present society is facing a coming oppression from a technocracy which will eventually, through their technological dominance, be able to decide the fate of the human species and existence on earth.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon even individual of the human species to secure our future against the oppression of the state through the forwarding and struggle towards anarchism.
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hahaha
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>>141471852

You think that's funny?
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>>141471852

By the way, where the hell did all the people on 4chan go? Like, what websites do they go to now, if at all ha.
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>>141471997
it's fucking hilarious
nice Giger painting too
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>>141471479
>be anarchist
>stop killing eachother
>form business
>eventually form trade unions
>fast forward
>decide you need some more secuirty on the streets
>police, firefighters, ambulances
>suddenly you are in dire need of tax
>more people are flooding in since better standards
>suddenly, you decide to form a parliament
>a couple years later
>rinse, repeat

added the picture to make your time in this thread worth while
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Free association is an unworkable concept. The reality is that the functions of the State are vital to society, and thus most anarchist models of society boil down to breaking the state down into its component organs and having them operate independently as separate institutions.

Its a ridiculous model. A completely voluntary society cannot function beyond the scale of a monastery.
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>>141472278

lol

>>141472344

No, we're not proposing that we break down the state to its "component organs" because the institutions that make up the state are what we want to eliminate. These do not include wanted, essential, and beneficial institutions like fire service, utilities, transportation, etc., but rather the institutions of taxation, and the enforcement of absentee ownership of the territory by their law either by themselves and/or a ruling class.

We have a different definition of what comprises a "state". A state is a gang of thieves that have entrenched themselves through force in society and created a monolith of worship to them that legitimizes and cements their rule.

Anarchism has occurred in the past and is occurring presently, most prominently in Spain and the Ukraine via movements such as the CNT-FAI and the Black Army of the Ukraine. The necessary and wanted non-violent institutions have been, are, and can be run successfully and progressively without the rule of a state or ruling class through consensus workers committees, various mutual aid organizations, and a general restructuring of society for the needs of every individual, group and locality.
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>>141471479
Why do American Anarchists march together with orthodox Leninsts and Stalinists? That's fucked up.
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>>141473408

I'm pretty sure they don't.

Also, Kurdistan receives their resources from the U.S. CIA. They're not anarchists, they're a proxy force for international capitalism. Hard to accept, I know, but reality.
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>>141473527
>>141473408
>yfw you receive US weapons to fight US allies and then get blown up by better US weapons to fuel your communistic desires
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>>141473527
>I'm pretty sure they don't.
I have seen way too many red/black flags together with hammer & sickle flags

>They're not anarchists
Sure mate, Rojava is as anarchist as possible.

>>141473680
The weapons are good enough to kill Turks. How is your mighty Euphrat Operation working out? kek
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>>141473680
i hope he was ok
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>>141473825
do you think he is/was okay?
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>>141472278
The point is closer to "make institutions more fluid and elastic" from what I've read in my time as anarchist. However then I've realized that it's dog-eats-dog world and anarchist pseudo-state will be quickly subjugated by some neighboring power, which will exploit the existing decentralization to conquer the place via divide and conquer, not unlike Caesar did in Gaul.
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>>141473759

All those are capitalist countries. They are dealing directly with capitalists unnecessarily. They have enough arms at this point to say fuck off and maintain their position in the middle east. But they don't, and it's bullshit.

They're both signs of radical socialism, I'm not sure if they were necessarily state socialists. If they were, obviously the "anarchists" with them are either misguided or not anarchists.
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>>141473936
As okay as the dozens of dead Turkish soldiers your press and government keeps secret.

>almasdarnews.com/article/video-kurdish-pkk-raids-turkish-army-base-nine-soldiers-left-dead/
>almasdarnews.com/article/turkish-army-suffers-heavy-casualties-attack-female-kurdish-unit/
>almasdarnews.com/article/pkk-militants-take-28-turkish-army-troops-full-report/
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>>141471479
Where's the recommended reading OP?
>Chomsky On Anarchism
>The Anarchist Library.org
Gutenberg of Anarchist works all you really need.
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>>141474032
There is no state in Democratic confederalism.
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>>141474082
There is no reliable source on PKKs exploits.
t*rKish media always goes "9 gorillion pkk killed, a soldier had a papercut" while the k*Rd media goes "9 gorillion turks killed, one pkk dude had a papercut".
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>>141471479

I completely agree with you. I'm a HUGE FAN of anarchy and I've used the anarchist flag on /pol/ (it's the ONLY ideological flag I've ever used on /pol/, but ONLY ONCE since I'm against ideological flags on /pol/). People think that anarchism is only for edgy teens, but I'm 29 and I'm against edginess simply for the sake of edginess. Anarchism does NOT mean 'without rules', it means 'without RULERS' - which means that anarchism is a system where we are TRULY FREE (as opposed to 'free-range', like we are now). I dream of a world without governments, Jews, niggers, Muslims, borders, religions, flags, countries, money, human-made laws, weapons, courts and wars. I dream of a world where everyone has raw vegan organic alkaline food, unfluoridated water, shelter, clothing (unless they want to be nude like me) and unindoctrinating non-compulsory education. I dream of a world where everyone can joyfully, peacefully, truthfully, freely, independently and unconditionally lovingly explore both inner space and outer space together - forever.
In a perfect world that was morally and spiritually advanced, there would be NO government. But without the moral and spiritual advancement required to handle anarchism maturely, the best type of government would be a minarchist government. We could use minarchism to transition into peaceful anarchism.

inb4 peaceful anarchism doesn't exist

Peaceful anarchism DOES exist, don't fall for kike lies.
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>>141474138

I was talking about the protesters you were talking about.
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>>141471479
See Homage to Catalonia.
>Ineffective military
>starvation
>child soldiers
>poor logistics
>Eventually polluted with foreign mercs
No government will hand over control to anarchists nor will they win a war.
>>141473408
Same reason they did in Spain and the same reason nationalists and commies did in China. They aren't strong enough to stand on their own but their truce will inevitably result in end fighting much like it did in the Barcelona during the Spanish civil war.
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>>141474232

That mans going back to earth
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>>141471479
What you are describing is a morally relativistic authoritarian socialist model. It's the antithesis of anarchy you fucking commie shill.
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>>141474360

Okay.
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>>141474344
If you read Chomsky's work on Catalonia where he refers to actual texts that describe what happen, it proves that not only did it work but it was a threat to everybody else, even communist where afraid.
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>>141474132

Of course comrade. How are you? Care you explain your position?

I think were should focus on a mutualist praxis, with the goal of transition to fully-automated communism eventually, with no currency. This would include unionization through organizations like the IWW, counter-economic initiatives like co-ops and self-sufficient centers, and local electoral initiatives, along with protests and marches, strikes, and so forth. We should coordinate our actions online and in tandem when possible and strategic. etc.
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>>141474463

hahaha
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> 1. States, even nation-states, properly defined by a realistic study of past and present societies, are a net negative for society and have always have been. This includes Marxist-Leninist states.

False.
You have no reason to be against a traditionnal state like Evola theorized it.
(The hierarchy is : élite men > the state > the people)
But I agree no such thing ever existed since Roma at least.
Anarchism is a modern thing and only a mean to criticize modern state.
Like a moderate form of marxism can help to understand why capitalism is wrong.
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>>141474483
Don't forget SEIU comrade!
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>>141474483
I knew something was up with this thread lol
>im out
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That's why, if you stay at a low level of comprehension of anarchism, you will stay an anarchist.
The moment you realize the fondamental inequality amongst men, you will want to be one of the élite men, an anarch (not an "anarchist" )
It's the same difference between a king and the monarchist plebs that only exist to legitimate the king's power.
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>>141474641
Whew lad. He must have been subscribed to a marketing campaign run by Socialist Alternative using Campaign4Bernie. Nah, hah it could never be that.
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>>141472912
The existence of fire service, utilities, transportation, etc are reliant on taxation and state enforcement. They can't exist otherwise.
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>>141474344

>hurr ineffective hurr children

They weren't starving, they had more resources under worker control even during the civil war than they ever did during their oppression under capitalists. The foreign soldiers came in organized brigades and aided their struggle.

The anarchists realized that the state socialists are power-hungry, sick traitors, as they have proven time and again throughout their past. The fighting was due to repeated pushing and enactment of oppressive measures by the state socialists at the behest and control of Stalin's Russia. The Spanish "republic" was as much of a farce to the Spanish workers movement as the Bolsheviks were to the Russian workers movement. The anarchists lost the war because of sheer mathematics. If more people had joined and given their expertise and resources, the people of the world could have won the war against the capitalists at that time.

>>141474364

/b/ time

>>141474571

Yes

>>141474555

Lol "redpilled ecology".

I mean, their have arguably been some states and Marxist-Leninists states throughout their past that have been genuine in seeking of justice and progression in their rule, but even so, it's still inefficient if you consider the distortion of information through hierarchies and the entrenchment of the faith of rule which allows certain characters to pervert the system.

The culture is the problem. We need to work and find ways to inculcate people through their own path the spirit and influence that the ideas of anarchism and so forth can bring. It's not absolute but we can try. You can't bomb a social relationship.
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>>141471479

No.
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>>141474832

I understand what you're saying, be aware of the reality of influence and control and so forth, but different levels of ability amongst individuals doesn't necessitate the rule of one group or individual or a state. It's still always more inefficient and less just than an anarchist form of organization.
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>>141475170
You're pretty fucking retarded. You're telling me that you're an anarchist that just so happens to want exactly what the global elite and international bankers want? Lol jfc. How does it feel to be a tool?
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>>141475170
>>141474482
Huff and puff about what could have been but
the movement is bound for failure and will always be.
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>>141475029

>>141475029

The state casts an illusion through its monolith of worship. You're saying that because they need to control those aspects of society to extort and rule the people, that the people need that extortion to continue to operate those organizations. It's like Stockholm syndrome. It's sadomasochism.

Fuck that, how many times and ways can I explain it. The goal is to convince the people and to live and be liberated in our individual lives.
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>>141475360

You're a dumbass bootlicker piece of shit. You're trying to convince me that I need to be ruled by someone else? Fuck you asshole.You're a bitch. Wakeup dumbass
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>>141474834

Fuck the Socialist Alternative and Bernie Sanders
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>>141475712
I have lived under socialistic authoritarianism before - the UCMJ, faggot. Why would you ever want to make the same error as the religious right and play the moral authoritarian? It's a losing battle, and your life will be wasted because you read some zines and got talked into some stupid shit at an anarchist book fair or something like that. There's a better way to live. Socialized labor is slavery to the global elite. You should feel like an ass.
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>>141475981

What are you talking about? Hurr durr Im on the internet so I should follow the influence and bullshit suggestions of other people around me.

The fact is that anarchism is the way for the human species, fact. I'm going to continue to do so, idiocy aside.
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>>141475800
Socialist Alternative is the equivalent of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt's Arab Spring. This is a soft coup. You gotta ride it out
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>>141476062
Explain to me how you can assert a collectivist moral authority except by force? You're literally the boot you fucking snowflake. You want more government enforcement. That's simply not anarchism at all. Call it what it is - Communism.
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>>141476083

Yeah, exactly, it's a bullshit organization. I had the displeasure of meeting some of their members in person at a May Day protest. Bunch of assholes, most of them are state socialists. I don't have anything to do with them nor will I. They're a joke, anyone who's serious about the movement will know that.
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Anyway, I recommend everyone read my praxis here:

>>141474483

Have a great day /pol/
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>>141476249
We've got ears out on the streets hearing conversations targeting Bernouts. SA gets contact info from a petition to get Sanders to run as a SA presidential candidate. Socialist Alternative has a lot of crossover members with SEIU IWW GDC Antifa and Redneck Revolt. There are a lot of LARPers out there but the Gen X age guys are probably the most dangerous imho.
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>>141475307
>different levels of ability amongst individuals doesn't necessitate the rule of one group or individual or a state

No, but the better group will aim at controlling plebs, in way to achieve greater goals.
The state is not an evolution of the family (well, the modern state is, of course), it's only the mean a group a elite men use to rule : not for the people (society organize itself) but for their greater purpose.

A State is meant to discover things, conquer land, fight off invaders.
Not trading or voting laws for plebs.

Do you imagine an ancient king worrying about his ppl fighting each other or starving ? He devolve it to minister.
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>>141476442

Well those members are mistaken if they think that the Socialist Alternative is a legitimate or effectual organization.

Everything about them is bullshit. Everything. I hope all other serious revolutionaries and anarchists will understand that.
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Internal order, external chaos. Applies to the individual, the family, the community, the city, the nation, the state.
Capitalism is the best system for individual anarchy. Any other system results in violence and there by regression.
Realpolitik is the best system for the anarchy of states.
Etcetera.
It's all just fucking chaos and game theory. Reject this and violence will ensue.
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>>141476515

You're ignoring my points about efficiency and justice, what should be. The state is not the only way to achieve a greater progression or purpose, it's a lesser way of achieving such that outcome.
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>>141471479
Then why the fuck did Antifa and other Whore organisations kiss Soros, EU and globalist ass, a superstrate is impossible to get rid off, smaller states fall all the time.

fuck this trap-tier bullshit, anarchism is a childish delusion, just like all other establishment plants.
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>>141475664
There is no system that doesn't require sacrifice for the collective. For example, within the family the father must give up his time to produce excess for a functional family. Similarly a citizen must give some of their labor up to maintain institutions beneficial to all. In practical terms, how would you run a firefighting unit without any form of taxation or property ownership?
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>>141476876

lol trap-tier

>>141476692

Capitalism is not the best system for individual anarchy and spaced liberty, etc, I understand what you're saying, anarchism is.

You're referring to disagreements between states, not "anarchy", you're using semantic differences to confuse the axiomatic continuation of our conceptualization.
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>>141476966

Man, fuck your disinfo, troll
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>>141477087
No, capitalism / free market is the best case for anarchy between individuals. Anything else results in violence.
You simply do not understand reality, and think you can fix it. No different to people calling for men to be women.
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>>141477377
What? I made a valid point. What I said can hardly be dismissed as 'disinfo' or 'trolling'. Make an actual counter point next time.
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>>141476567
Nah, I think Socialist Alternative deserves to be in the spotlight - I wonder what is going to happen when people are identified and where grants are being awarded from i.e. Open Society Foundations.
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>>141477586

>Open Society Foundations

Ha, of course Socialist Alternative would be involved with Soros. Piece of shit.




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